>Playing 3.5 core (no rulebooks) with family and friends
>party is 1 fighter, 1 pally, 1 druid, 1 wizard and a rogue
>5th level human fighter
>specialize in tanking
>leveling up next encounter
What do /tg/?
I got two feats to spend and I need some advice
Also, is it worth putting a level into Barbarian (for the rage) when I hit level 7?
>tfw 69hp
>tfw 31ac in combat w/o magic
Anyways, share some DnD stories and help my character out
>>44480029
Lion Totem Barbarian alwas have and always eill be worth for melees in 3.5 because of pounce.
That said you should look into some Prestige Class to get something apart from feats. But to me plain Fighter up till the end always seemed fine.
To sim up, go for whatever you feel will be the funniest instead of the most powerful shit you can string together.
>>44480188
unfortunately core doesn't allow for such things, although I think there is still Lion Totem but without pounce.
It actually looks really cool and I'm gonna go check and see if barbarian variants are allowed, really digging the bear totem
Just stick to fighter OP.
Learn those defensive withdrawals.
Also sundering and called shots are a fighters bread and butter.
Shield bash and disarm rock as well.
Barbarians are great out of the gate. But a well planned and thought out fighter has dozens of tricks up his/her sleeve. More than just going into a tard rage for a few rounds and having some added movement speed.
>>44480328
The best core "not wizard" build is going into horizon walker for the dimension door stuff.
Taking more than 4 levels in fighter in core is pointless, if you can, retrain levels into barb or possibly ranger.
>>44480328
If by "core" you actually mean SRD, wolf totem nets you trip, which is pretty much the only worthwhile maneuver in the game.
>>44480029
>Core 3.5
>Fighter
>31 AC without magic
Go lie somewhere else
>>44483172
Probably using defensive fighting/combat expertise.
>>44483190
>5th level
>assuming full plate
10+1(dex)+8(full plate) +2(shield)+5(combat expertise)+2(defensive) = 28
Lets assume pavise and add a +4 instead of +2, and in this case his character is completely useles because everybody is going to ignore him and attack others because his AC is pretty high and his to hit is worthless.
>>44480029
Multiclass into a Tome of Battle class
>>44483256
He only has -9 to attack, is not that bad
>>44480328
>playing a martial in 3.5 core
>>44483275
At level 5.
I'd be surprised if his attack bonus is positive.
>>44480029
>playing core only
>playing a fighter
Hope to God that the casters don't know what they're doing (or that they do know what they're doing and they care about your fun), because otherwise they can and will render you completely irrelevant in 1-2 more levels.
>>44483275
If he uses tower shield is actually -11
>>44483360
>in 1-2 more levels
They're in 5th level and they have a druid, the fighter and the paladin are already pointless
>>44483451
O hello mr.Min/Max. How are you this evening? Stop bothering the players that are having fun.
How is it doing 1d8+4 damage per round while I can end the encounter with a fireball?
>>44483486
There is no minmaxing necessary for a druid to invalidate a fighter.
Natural Spell is a single core feat. Wild Shape and Animal Companion are part of their core features. Wolves and Bears are core beasts to transform into.
>>44483486
>Minmax
Dude, is a fucking druid, he already can turn into a deynonichus, or wolf or who knows, for 5 hours a day and has a large wolf as a companion, not even a bear, no, a wolf that turns into large because 4HD plus his bonuses to stats because of that...oh, wait, you were baiting, man, I always fall for this shit, haha, well done ;^)
>>44483560
Yeah. But that's why Druids level at 1/3 the rate of martials in my games.
>>44483544
But what if the dude decides "Hmm maybe having a bear always around me would get kind of annoying when we go cave diving or city exploring or any number of common occurrences were to happen. I should probably stick to my wolf".
>>44483582
That's not core
>>44483603
But it's fair
>>44483633
he is playing core only 3.5, if he care about stuff he would be playing another stuff
>>44483602
Not even a bear, just a wolf would do
>>44483602
His wolf gets +8 to Str and +4 to Con at 5th level due HD increment.
>>44483668
>>44483675
Well why are you allowing them to do this without the specialization rule? You know, the rule where casters can only focus on one school of magic. A Druid can cast spells OR turn into animals.
>>44483707
Because that's not core 3.5, we're discussing 3.5 as it is, not a heavly homeruled 3.5 edition.
>>44483707
Them turning into animals isnt' a school of magic.
I mean, it is, but they have it as a default ability.
>>44483707
No-one ever uses that houserule because it's idiotic and wizards will STILL be overpowered.
>>44483733
Well core 3.5e is officially crap by every definition of the word so I was assuming OP wasn't retarded enough to play core only without house rules.
>>44483707
That's not core and doesn't fix that much
>>44483760
How would wizards be overpowered when all they can do is illusions?
So, how do we flatten the 3.5 class tiers?
>>44483780
>Well core 3.5e is officially crap by every definition of the word
as I said he not care about stuff
>"urr durr core 3.5 is/have......"
if he cared he would be playing another stuff
>>44483791
Shadow conjuration and shadow evocation, for starters.
>>44483798
Backport 5e's concentration rules and save-on-each-turn for most duration spells, and get rid of bonus spell slots for high casting scores.
>>44483798
Start by banning the core classes and spells.
>>44483809
For you.
>>44483791
Color Spray, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Illusory Wall, every variation of [X] Image + Ghost Sound, Phantasmal Killer, Disguise Self, Shadow Evocation, and Shadow Conjuration are all core illusion spells that are incredibly useful.
Even ignoring the top level spells like Simulacrum, Scintillating Pattern, and Shades.
>>44483813
Those spells are in different schools of magic.
>>44483877
Okay. Now that's all your wizard has a CHANCE to get from levels 1-20. Is the wizard overpowered?
>>44483913
Yes, especially given their out of combat utility
>>44483897
No, they're both illusions.
>>44483944
So they're overpowered compared to the people that can do more than 3 things per day? What about against constructs? Undead? Mindless enemies? Things that actually make their save and have a weapon ready to attack your squishy wizard?
>>44483982
The majority of illusions aren't actually mind-effecting so they work against constructs, undead, etc. just fine.
>>44483997
But all of the Save or die ones have no effect. Also you all are saying a fighter is completely useless at all levels against a guy who can only cast illusions?
>>44484016
>acting like PvP is at all relevant in a cooperative game
>>44484016
Combat is a subsystem for martials to feel useful
>>44483982
>What about against constructs? Undead? Mindless enemies?
Throw up an illusory wall that they, having no intelligence, will be forced to accept is real and wander away.
Now I recognize that doesn't work on liches, but throwing liches (or anyone equipped with continuous true seeing) at your illusion-only wizards is being kind of a dick DM.
>>44484033
Well apparently that's where the caster vs martial power gap comes from.
>>44483256
What if he has high dex? Might have beefed it up to a +4, or he might have rolled for stats and got a couple high ones.
You're making a ass out of you and Ming.
>>44484053
Nah anon, the gap comes from martials and casters working together, and the casters being able to outdo the martials at their own job or end fights before the martials can even jump in.
>>44484044
>Combat is a subsystem
I didn't know that subsystems could be used for 99% of exp gain.
>>44484053
No it comes from class utility to influence a variety of different encounters, and is certainly relevant to NPCs with class levels
>>44484060
+4 to Dex? ok, let me check
10 +4(dex) +4(chain shirt because is the only one it allows you to have that high Dex) +2(Shield) +5(combat expertise) +2(defensive) = 27 which is higher than 28!
Holy maccaroni, Batman, you're completely righ...wait, no.
>>44484073
Daily reminder that by RAW, bypassing a combat encounter grants the exact same amount of XP as fighting.
>>44483560
>be druid
>think I am badass cause"wolf n bears"
>party goes to city
>guards tell me that my wolf is NOT coming into the city
>I argue with them
>party gets buttmad and leaves city
>necromancer in city finishes his ritual and slaughters city
>mfw I am such a power player that I let an entire city die, and allowed the birth of a necronation
Druids. Heh.
>>44483486
The point of the Druid is that you don't have to minmax it to completely break the game.
To completely fuck things over as a wizard you need to know what you're doing.
To completely fuck things over as a Druid you need to take one look at the Natural Spell feat.
>>44484178
Use diplmacy (class skill for druids but not for fighters) to tell them politely that you're here to help them against the necromancer that is attacking the city, if they refuse that will prove they're working with him.
Skill. Heh.
>>44484178
Why would you want to take a wolf outside its natural environment? Did you need the knot that badly?
>>44484178
Tell wolf to wait outside the city.
When shit hits the fan use your druid features called spells to call for him.
Woah, so hard, much complex.
>>44483526
>be in noble's house
>5 low level thieves ambush us at the entryway
>fighter steps forward
>mage stops him "I got this bro"
>mage launches fireball
>lv 3 rogues split up and dodge it
>house is on fire
>mage is hit by 3 arrows
>mage drops to 1 HP and flees with rope trick
>party kills bad guys
>Nobel is pissed about his house
>7 people died trying to put out fire
>noble and his uncle the king put out largest bounty ever on our party
Fireballs. Heh
>>44483544
>be in woods
>find a well we want to explore
>ladder leading down
>mfw my wolf can't into ladders
>>44484178
Your GM sucks.
>>44484263
>>lv 3 rogues split up and dodge it
You've never played D&D in your life, have you?
You don't get that sort of ridiculous reaction call.
>>44484263
>house is on fire
Fireball doesn't set things on fire
>>44484154
Shh, these people didn't actually read the RAW
>>44484279
Can't you tie a rope around its waist and slowly lower it?
>>44484255
>>44484222
The guards are not going to allow a fucking wolf inside the city.
Diplomacy isn't a mind domination.
No wolf. Druid is now far weaker.
>>44484279
Cast Feather Fall on wolf
drop wolf in well
profit
(I know druids don't learn feather fall but a wand of feather fall is not that expensive anyway)
>>44484311
God helps those who help themselves, good luck with your zombie infestation, tell me when they're eating your relatives alive if the wolf still bothers you.
>>44484288
Bulkshit.
Two rogues to each side with one in front. Rogues are split up and have a decent chance of evading all damage from wizard.
>>44484295
We're talking about 3.5, yes?
>The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
>>44484311
>No wolf. Druid is now far weaker.
Too bad he's still a fullcaster who can turn into a wolf himself when necessary.
Or are you going to confiscate his holly and misteltoe too? The king's allergic, maybe?
>>44484311
>Diplomacy isn't a mind domination.
Nobody insinuated that it was. But it's also asine to imply that the guards are so set in a given belief that nobody can talk them around to anything. They're adventurers, and they need the wolf. It's apparently well behaved, as animal companions are want to do, and it's not like the city isn't full of cutthroats and apparently necromancers anyway. Talking the guards into letting the big dog in is hardly unreasonable.
>>44484311
I'd leave the wolf outside, is not like me turning into a bear and summoning a horde or bears won't be enough.
I do what they say, let them have this win and feel important, "keep doing the good work, city guards".
>>44484295
No, but 5d6 fire damage will burn the fuck out of flammable objects in a house, so even though it was a stupid example, the point sort of limps along.
>>44484311
I don't see how it solves the first statement, you just tell the wolf to stay out then bring him in when shit hits the fan. I'msure they wouldn't mind a wolf when zombies are swaming the streets.
>>44484322
Sure. If you have one.
Does it work in reverse? Wolf has to come up eventually.
>>44484347
They can only do that on their turn. If the wizard decides to fire a fireball after that, it's his own issue for going single target on an AoE.
To note, a more preferable single-target version of Fireball is Kelgore's Fire Bolt, which is only a first level spell.
>>44484368
They do, they, in fact, will hunt your wolf down the moment it sets a paw in the city. I win, you lose.
>>44484311
It's just a wolf. As long as it's properly leashed and the druid gives his word to take responsibility of its actions, I don't see why not. Adventurers do stranger shit all the time.
>>44484352
No faggot.
We're talking lv 5.
>>44484377
Tie rope around wolf
HEAVE
>>44484377
Use a fucking rope, you know, those things that come in every adventurer's equipment and that cost fucking nothing.
>>44484392
Druids get wild shape at level five and are a fullcaster from the start. So.. what?
>>44484390
No, everyone loses, because that's just shitty GMing.
>>44484399
Ropes don't work on animals, what now? also alignment swift for mistreating an animal.
>>44484391
I take it you don't know much about rural life
>>44484421
>Druids get wild shape at level five
Only if I say so, I'm still the DM here.
>>44484431
Anon plz.
>>44484390
Oh, so you're just making outlandish situations no GM would ever do.
Face it, unless you houserule to make druids weaker or create such insane situations where guards would rather die than let the wolf in, you won't stop them. And while the former is acceptable and good if you agree with the players, the later is just a shit GM.
>>44484178
>the guards also confiscate the fighter's weapons and the wizard's hands
>your party must now fight the zombie cultists without their best tools
>>44484457
[X] leave game
>>44484488
Might be cool
>>44484457
Not with that attitude you aren't, I'm taking over so we can play a game that's actually not terrible.
>>44484390
>they kill the wolf
>the Druid is still a Druid and turnbs into a Tyrannosaurus Rex and assrapes the guards
>leave, and watch the guard's families be executed for being so fucking incompetent that they refused to let the only people who can stop the cultists inside the city
>>44484488
OUR TIME TO SHINE!!!!!!!!!!
>>44484488
And that is what you have to do to make the monk a viable class.
Make literally everybody fight naked.
And even then the druid is still a bear. (temporarily)
>>44484536
>the guards confiscate the monk
>>44484536
EVERYBODY WAS KUNG FU FIGHTING
>>44484499
>Fighters fight using silverware
>Wizard's hands are cut off
>If you leave city without commiting a crime then we'll regenerate them for free
Alternatively, all spellcasters get a permanent silence while in the city, but they're given free chalk and mini chalkboards to communicate.Assuming no one took silent spell.
OK so the faggots lol'ing about casters being awesome and encounter ending must gave GMs that allow them to do whatever they want.
No fags, if the guards are ordered to not allow thing ( wolf bear drow demons criminals etc) inside the city, then they don't.
If the law says NO thing, then there will be penalties for doing thing.
Shit GMs should enforce that more.
>>44484549
>Temporarily
1 hour per level, at 6th level is a bear 2 times per day 6 hour each, and it keeps going on, eventually he doesn't even need to be human anymore
>>44484586
Well, without their components pouch/spell focus/holy symbol/holly and mistletoe, even fullcasters in D&D struggle.
They can only use spells with no material component whatsoever (extremely few and far between).
... unless they took the Eschew Materials feat.
>>44484488
Swords are common. Wizards are just a guy in a robe till they cast.
A wolf is a fucking wolf.
>>44484586
>they bust into the cultist's lair
>the cultists are busy trying to create zombies and skeletons using play-doh and legos
>the guards confiscated all their cultist necromancy stuff when they entered the city
>>44484590
>City is being destroyed by zombies, demons and dragons
>"Sorry, no wolves inside the city, those are our orders, right, Bill?...shit, a demon is eating Bill, still, sorry, orders."
Well, I'll just wait till all the gards are dead then
>>44484472
>cities have laws
>shit gm
Wut?
>playing my first campaign of 3.5
>roll druid
>at level 4 my pet Ape(Tyrone) is far more useful than myself or the fighter
>>44484623
which, depending on the races, some are indistinguisable from dogs.
>>44484623
More like a big ass dog. Particularly with the whole adventurer thing.
>>44484590
Why would the PCs be interested in helping a city that clearly has no interest in being helped? They'll just go elsewhere.
>This level of efficiency on guards
Then we leave the city, we know it's in good hands.
>>44484653
He said the guards would attack the wolf while zombies were in the city. They'd seriously ignore a horde of zombies and act as if killing a single wolf was more important.
If that's not a shitty GM, then I don't know what is.
>>44484623
>walking artillery demigods are just guys in robes
Wizards are wizards and you know you can identify them on sight because 95% of wizards won't take a step outside their towers without looking MAXIMUM WIZARD.
>>44484676
Laws say nothing about zombie infestation, they do about wolves though, so no.
>>44484665
>we get to break laws if we want, or else fuck you all.
The basic mentality of 3.5 PCs?
>>44484692
Laws mean nothing if there's innocent people in danger, first rule of true paladins.
>>44484691
Laws say a lot about zombies in D&D. Basically the only non-evil god that permits the existence of undead is Wee Jas. And the gods make the laws.
So no, zombies are hella illegal.
>>44484692
So, what, the PCs are just supposed to strip naked before going to fight the necromancer/demon/whatever that would most likely be a tough fight even if they were armed to the teeth? Just because they're adventurers doesn't mean they're suicidal.
>>44484676
No one said ( except for the buttmad lil fags) that the PCs were arriving as the attack happened.
Tards. Sheesh.
>players respond to a wealthy merchants plea for help in a neighboring city.
>"I am worried about a cult."
>PCs get to city to start investigation, but leave because of a weeping druid at the city gates
A week later zombies attack.
>>44484750
>obeying laws about wolves=stripping naked to fight
That's a reach m8.
>Tell the guards: Do what you must
Then knock them unconscious, hide them so the zombies don't eat them and save this city.
>>44484754
And like some anons said
>Tell wolf to wait outside
>When shit hits the fan use that spell that lets you talk to animals from far away and stuff
It's not that hard
>>44484737
>paladin and party arrive at gate to investigate rumors of a cult
>guards say "sorry, no wolves allowed"
>paladin slaughters guards because its totally ic.
Wut?
>>44484771
If the wolf in question is as useful as the fighter, one of the most iconic party members, then surely leaving it behind would be an enormous disadvantage.
>>44484663
Are you retarded? Wolves are obviously different from dogs if you've ever been around them
>>44484791
I am not familiar with that spell? What's it do? Magically teleport wolf? Or does the wolf have to physical run to the PC?
>>44484754
That's not my proposal which he was replying to.
>arrive to investigate
>wolf not let in
>Druid says ok, tells wolf to stay outside, maybe tell it to hunt in a nearby forest or come out of the city every night and feed it
>wolf not harming anyone nor inside city
>also tell it to avoid hunters and similar stuff, whihc it'll be good enough at since it's an animal companion
>zombies attack
>call wolf
>anon says guards would rather drop containing the horde and attack the animal
Explain how this would make sense?
>>44484827
There're several, lower ones just call it but it has to run to your possition, higher ones literally teleport them to your possition.
>>44484802
Nobody said nothing about slaughtering guards, anon, you're reaching too hard.
Pic related: you.
>>44484833
The anon that said that is an idiot and implying.
The point was, cities have laws. Adventurers must abide by them when in city.
Even druids.
>omg no wolf is stripping naked=metagaming fags
Its perfectly reasonable for guards to deny entry to creatures that typically have a bad or scary reputation. Wolves. Drow. Bears. Etc.
>>44484833
The law is the law, don't act like a baby when the authorities enforce it.
>>44484820
Depends on the dog. And depends on the guard. And the region, and where the city is. It's not like hunting beasts are exactly a rare idea.
>>44484881
So you agree the pally would obey the law? Or would he stand at the gate and demand entry for the partu.?
>>44484893
>shave bear
>call it an ugly child
>???
>>44484893
Yeah, more like the GM being an asshat over things that really don't require that sort of attention or blantent GM blocking. A big part of the Druid is their animal companion. The GM should make that work unless it's a serious breach of suspension of disbelief. And a canine companion isn't unless you're really playing up the lawful stupid.
>>44484893
No worries then, he's a noble.
>>44484861
Can it run through walls? Magically avoiding them?
>>44484914
No, the pally can knock them out if they're in the way to save innocent people, knocking them out is entirely different to kill them
He also could walk through them, tell them to arrest him later once they have saved the city, etc. Your thinking the only solution is killing the guards only proves you're either stupid or a troll, because I'm a nice person I'm going to assume the later.
>>44484893
Well, I was complaining about that specific point. I wouldn't mind giving those instructions to the wolf, I mean, I see no reason why I'd need it out of combat in a city, then when things got ugly, just call him.
What I found stupid was enforcing the law during a moment of crisis.
>>44484893
>Its perfectly reasonable for guards to deny entry to creatures that typically have a bad or scary reputation. Wolves. Drow. Bears. Etc.
Well, of course. And it's perfectly reasonable for the adventurers to go elsewhere if the entire party isn't allowed in. I mean, it's not like they're under a compulsion to enter and have the adventure you've planned, right? After all, they're law-abiding people.
>>44484925
Sure m8.
A cities having normal laws is a gm being an asshat.
PCs need to work around problems. Not expect the gm to tailor ever city and every law to fit what the PCs happen to have rolled up.
>>44484933
Doesn't run in a straight line, and I guess that you had to move to where you're now without runnig through walls too, so he can follow your steps.
You could build situations to fuck the wolf up sure, but that will only prove how strong druids are if you built a serie of encounters to deny some druid's features.
>>44484898
It's not just appearance
>>44484972
Party is free to not do the job. Sure.
Which was the point of the post that started this.>>44484178
>Enter in city with this
What now?
>>44485045
>Druid can't enter
>Drow ranger can't enter
>Half-orc barbarian can't enter
>GM "Hurr durr is your fault all these people died!"
>>44484996
A walled city with laws, isn't building things to fuck up the druid. Its like a normal city.
>a city with walls and laws prove druids are badass!!
That's a logic jump m8.
>Wolves can't enter
>Ok
>wait 24 hours
>Commune with another animal
>Enter
>Do job
>Leave city
>Commune with wolf
Woah, so hard.
And this assuming:
1. I can't leave wolf and call it when I needit
2. I can't fucking teleport it to my possition
3. I can't summon hordes of wolves or turn into a hydra or something
>>44485135
If there's a zombie infestation, also known as when shit hits the fan, going on I'm 97% sure the guards will open the doors to let the people escape, my wolf can enter using the same doors, right?
>m8
Ah, ok, you were trolling, you got me there, man, you're so good at this.
>>44485096
I'd go farther than that.
Drow was seen in the area with a druid with a wolf?
Odds are 80℅ of the area will blame them for every bad thing happening in the region.
Drow aren't loved. They are demon worshipping killers. Being seen with one could get you broughtbin for questioning at least.
So tg, how would this theoretical city where everyone gets something confiscated work?
Maybe some Wizard created a cover of weakness around the city, and when entered, whatever that person perceives as making them strong disappears.
Like, fighters lose their weapons, druids loses their companion and/it wild shaping, etc.
If he wanted to go full station master why he didn't say it earlier? I pick the precons and see where this book lead us.
Is he going to roleplay for us too? maybe my character doesn't behave the way he intended.
>>44484311
>Give the Druid some sunglasses
>Put a harness on the wolf
>Wolf, what wolf, this is the Druid's Seeing Eye Dog
>>44485173
>zombies and skeletons attacking city
>fires everywhere
>open fighting in the streets
>chaos
>party leaps into the fray to save day
>druid summons his wolf waiting near city
>wolf runs through crowd of people fleeing
>"omg a wolf!!!"
>fleeing NPC peasants attack wolf thinking it's part of the attack on city
>wolf dies
>druid buttmad
>gm sucks!!!!
Nothing unreasonable about panicked people fear-attacking a wolf.
>>44485136
>turn into a hydra or something
You'd have to be level 15 and take the Frozen Wild Shape feat.
A near endgame tactic, but a very good one. Twelve headed cryohydras are great murder machines.
>>44485302
That is clever.
I'd allow it.
>>44485199
Actually, this could also responsible why the guards are stuck Dicks about the whole thing, they aren't real.
They're just a manifestation of the magic effect taking away their strengths. It doesn't care that zombies are killing the city, it just for what it easy made to do, nothing more, nothing less.
>>44485319
If they're able to beat a wolf animal companion of a 5th level druid why the fuck do they need us to fight zombies?
Also why do people flee armed?
>>44484987
There's requiring PC problem solving and simply putting a big block up in their path and telling them to piss off. Which is what the GM is doing if he's effectively making a core class feature into an arrestable offense, when it doesn't serve any real story or thematic reason. It's a needless inconvinience, and a block to player agency. You don't play a druid to have a key class feature turned into a major obstacle.
You maybe have the Druid attract some strange glances, make some diplomacy checks harder, and COMPLICATE things. If the druid havig a wolf is felt to be such a serious issue for the GM. You don't just ban the feature from the campaign. Which is effectively what the GM attempted to do.
Leave the wolf behind, I can still summon a couple and turn into one. It's going to hurt my capabilities but at least I'm still better than a fighter or a monk even in this situation.
Then, as part of our price for saving the city, I ask for a permit to have whatever animal companion I have enter the city as long as it behaves.
>>44485427
I forgot.
Then I walk repeatedly around the guards showing them the wolf and the permite with the smuggest face I could possibly make, even ask help to the wizard for some polymorph shit to accomplish this.
>>44484102
Maybe he means "no spells" when he says "no magic" and has a +5 plate and shield, or something similarly ridiculous.
...or someone isn't real clear on the rules and hasn't realized the dex cap, among others.
>>44485540
So the only way to make your point is assuming OP is a retard? I mean, it's a good point, 99% of the time OP is a faggot and a retard, but I assumed we were in the other 1% situation, my fault then.
>>44480029
For god's sake don't specialize in tanking, it's totally worthless in core 3.5 because enemies can just ignore you or fuck you up with attacks that ignore your AC.
>>44480029
With the core book alone? Nah, don't bother with the Barb. You're getting a combat feat every other level... Assuming you have the reqs, that adds up fast. Grab yourself some Spiked Chain proficiency, some whirlwind attack, and make yourself a high damage fireball that'll easily keep up with the DPS of the casters, if not their bullshit, with AOO's on everything at 5' or 10' feet, and eternal Greater Cleaves to fell whole armies of minions before your turn ends. Or get spring attack and just exploit reverse hops until the BBEG melee guy kills himself for you.
You'll lose some AC, but meh, with your HP and ranged touch attacks being tossed at you anyways, it ain't no thing.
>>44485372
>normal city with normal laws
>gm being a dick for not making evert city cater to specific party features
>gm h8's meeeee!!!
This IMO, is the real issue with 3.5.
Shit players and shit GMs that allow them to expect every law to be tailored for them.
We can dream up weird situations where guards would abandon their duties, or break laws. But applying the exception to the law in a blanket world..us retarded.
A simple wall and a normal wall is simply too much of a "disadvantage" for many PCs. That is sad.
>>44485372
This.
The fix to the mechanics issues of 3.5 isn't making the classes unfun to play, and if that was going to be the case, it should have been said from the word go.
Even then, how does this city deal with the multitude of travelers and caravans transporting goods that yes, include creatures?
>>44485757
>normal city with normal laws
It's only normal if you are operating on real life 1st world country norms, where a known feral animal would be a considerable problem.
In D&D World, that is not the case, as wild animals being reared for hunting, tracking and the like are very standard, and even in real life, were a part of day to day living.
You can't make a rational argument that doesn't rely on cultural norms that would not exist in D&D, where such things as druids, wizards and such exist.
>>44485367
One can't. But 10 peasants throwing rocks can add up some damage.
And why wouldn't they?
City is under attack..creatures everywhere. A wolf is charging towards them...yea they'll try to defend themselves ad best they can.
>>44485772
Creatures in cages are a little different than a wolf roaming the streets.
>>44485820
>implying that the average person in a d&d setting isn't fearful of a fucking wolf.
>>44485757
>We can dream up weird situations where guards would abandon their duties, or break laws.
Except those laws and the specific attitudes and implementations of them are 100% up to the GM, and he's using that player to apply a very specific set of laws that have no benefit but to penalise a player for playing a given class. If the guards are stringent on not allowing wolves inside, and they actively pursue those that do, it's effectively requring the druid, without any ways of working around it, to leave their class at the door. And that's bad GMing, however you slice it.
>>44485772
A city wall and laws= unfun to play.
Kek
>>44485871
Hunting animal's aren't. And they can't be that rare. Or pets. Or noblemen with weird animals they keep on leashes. Or the ever obvious nature of adventurers to be a bit weird. But it's pretty clear to the guard that the wolf isn't acting like a regular wild animal if it's this close to civilisation and people and fire and all that. If it's danger he's worried about, then letting in a party of murderhobos is more of an issue there.
>>44485840
Undead creatures. And probably skeleton/zombie style things. Not living wolves, in the company of adventurers and fighting alongside them. But apparently there's squads of armed peasants about ready to coordinate attacks against the specific creature, so who the fuck knows how these people work.
>>44485871
And neither would be that outrageous or out of place in D&D.
>>44485899
Only if you assume every commoner in D&D is a dirt farmer who has never seen anything outside their plot of dirt.
Seriously, people have traveled with wolves and wolf hybrids, hunting birds, big cats, all manner of local hunting creatures for centuries irl, and in some places, still do.
Now, in this setting where such things are a common part of life, a clearly tamed beast is an issue.
>>44485840
That wolf has as many HPs as a 5th level fighter or even more, I don't think mere pebbles would be enough to kill it, and the wolf is going to leave them alone, so that would be one turn, in the next one the wolf is at 120 ft away
>>44485916
You're on crack.
Cities have laws to protect the people.
A law about wolves, isn't meant to punish a PC you fuckhead. Its meant to keep a big bad wolf the fuck away from people.
Can exceptions be made? Sure. If the PCs help save the city, a special allowance could be made. But just saying "I r a druid, back off", won't cut it.
Its not abnormal. Abnormal is expecting to be allowed to bring something like a wolf inside.
>>44483602
Wolves are murderous, as they get free trip on their bite attacks.
>>44486010
It's a GM that doesn't want the wolf to be a part of a major component of the adventure. They're probably magic rocks with beastslayer on them.
If the GM's being a cockbag about animal companions because muh laws, then he'll find a way.
>>44485946
Hunting animals.
Hounds. Falcons. Horses.
Not wolves.
>>44484623
>What is detect magic
>>44486015
>Abnormal is expecting to be allowed to bring something like a wolf inside
But dogs are? Who are a degenerated wolf themselves, and will quickly become feral and even more violent than wolves if left to themselves?
>>44486056
>Not wolves.
The Inuit are calling, saying that you don't know a goddamn thing.
Fuck, how do you think DOGS came to be? They were wolves that were tamed.
>>44486015
>Cities have laws to protect the people.
No shit. None of that means that the PC's get pulled over because of a wolf. That's a waste of time, and it's well within the realm of suspension of disbelief that it's not a major issue. Or at least within the range of a good diplomancy check to explain their hunting/service animal/pet is needed, and have the guards be basically alright with the big, very well behaved dog to enter with the group of well armed maniacs.
>abnormal
Well, the GM's the one that allowed the animal companion in the first place despite setting a major part of the story inside a city, so he's a either a dumbass or an asshole.
>>44484692
Because they can do that? Wizards flick off the natural laws of nature, man's laws are child's play.
>>44486056
Hunting dogs are an incredible common artifact in historical societies, and ye olde hunting dogs and wolves aren't that different. Particularly for the average guard that isn't out to start shit with the murderhobos who are there to help.
>>44484827
Hosteling shield will allow you to literally pick your wolf up and magically throw him inside your shield.
>>44486010
And a rock dies 1-2 pts. Fine.
Add that damage up as 1 out of 10 throw a rock, as the wolf makes the half mile trip through town.
Instead of an animal "companion" you have an animal meatshield and DPS.
Instead of being a nature lover druid, you're playing a powergamer that uses animals as disposable assets.
Nice druid.
>>44484692
>we get to fudge the specifics of the implementation of some apparent laws if it makes the story flow more easily and lets everyone play their class without contortions.
>>44484178
How can any of you not spot this as a troll post?
>>44486015
>depends-on-the-setting.jpg
Like, Forgotten Realm's Waterdeep? Where the Red Plum guards wandering the city number in the thousands, each being a level 8+ fighter, and the population is nearly a million, with interdimensional ports to boot. Nah, no one's going to notice a druid and his pet there.
Or Luskan, where everyone's so magical and crooked ain't no one noticing nuttin anyways. Hell, got bloody drow making deals in bars without anyone blinking an eye.
In a small village ya might have a point, but even there, people are going to stand back and respect a druid with freaking levels on him.
Might be more of an issue with the more typical small and mid-sized towns, but even there, it's going to vary wildly with the setting. Woodelf town might just be accustom to tamed pets and animal companions wandering through left and right and not raise an eyebrow in nearly any setting.
I mean, hell, it's not even something exotic or unwieldy, like a demon or a dire bear.
>>44486156
Because apparently random peasants are throwing rocks at the creature that's going along with the adventurers. But they're not throwing rocks at the adventurers fighting the same things as the wolf. Yeah, that's sensible.
Particularly considering that undead are the issue, not wolves.
>>44486107
>gm allowed me to play druid
>we went to a city
>DM is asshole!!!!!
>>44486156
You don't know the wolf is getting a tracked, you magically called it, he comes to your aid, you don't know that is happening, you expect that something as sturdy as a fighter of your level is going to survive. I literally did nothing but choose wolf, the rest is given by your level
>>44486184
>anon said something I don't like
>troll post!!!
>>44486184
We love to rail on shitty dm'ing, and you can tell it is a troll post because since it came up, the number of individual posters went from 25 to 27. The same guy that posted it is the same one defending it.
>>44486230
>gm intentionally applies an apparently law in an incredibly strict fashion that has no other purpose but to remove a large component of a class's nature
>GM doesn't allow the guards to look the other way, be bribed, be intimidated, or able to judge the creature as tame, or otherwise apathetic when it comes to a matter of heroes doing slightly strange things
>GM wants that wolf gone for the next 4 sessions
>GM is an asshole.
>>44486306
Incorrect.
I defend the post because it is fucking retarded to think that people want wolves roaming the city streets.
>gee I wish we had some fucking wolves outside near our kids
>said no city ever
>oh shit we're surrounded by zombies! I wait a minute, is that a tamed wolf? Stop right there criminal scum!
Do people in this setting doesn't know what a druid is?
>>44486329
Strictly.
No purpose.
Lol
>"we need more wolves on the city streets!!" Said the mayor
>totally believable
>>44486371
Having a tame and leashed wolf is far cry from wild wolves hunting in the city.
>>44486423
Guards don't know that
>>44486371
>I defend the post because it is fucking retarded to think that people want wolves roaming the city streets.
Yes, according to modern first world logic.
In D&D setting, it makes no actual sense, because such things would be far more common and expected from trappers, hunters and tradesmen that bring in revenue to the city.
>>44486409
Yes. People can instantly tell classes at a glance. They also instantly know all class features of said class. They know (with a glance mind you) that person is a druid ( a good druid, they also know alignment).
Really?
>>44486450
It's kind of obvious, isn't it?
>>44486465
Druid is not only a class, there's a language called druidic and something called druids circle
>>44486423
So the druid has to keep the wolf on a leash???
>railroading no fun gm!!!!
>>44486523
You know you are trying way too hard now, right? That wasn't even given as an option, which would be reasonable.
>>44486514
And people can recognize said language by looking at the PC?
What's your point?
>>44486465
>wildshape into a fucking bear
>glare at the guards
>wildshape back
>all is well
>>44486547
Druids wears symbols of their circle, in some settings these circles are well known, that's why I asked I'd the don't know he's a druid in this specific setting, and if they don't, which setting is this?
>>44486542
Why would a leash be reasonable?
Remember druids are respected. According to posts in this thread.
Druid's animals are instantly recognized as friendly. Thus leashing a wolf makes no sense, since the wolf is not dangerous in any way to the people of the city. And everyone instantly know that.
>>44486580
>guards ring bell
>more guards arrive
>threatening a guard is frowned upon.
>>44486622
Woah, Reed stop reaching so hard
>>44486642
Yes, because he was threatening them and not glaring at them for being fucking retards.
So one clear fact...
Fighter just walks into the city.
No drama. No bullshit attempt to break laws needed.
Things would be much different in a wilderness campaign. But if city work is needed, I will take a fighter any day over a druidfag.
>>44486622
Reasonable people are willing to make compromises, anon. That's how you can tell That Guys apart from normal people. If the guards won't accept a wolf running free, that's fine. Large animals - wild or tamed - ARE potentially dangerous and it's perfectly reasonable to not want them. A leash shows that the animal is at least mostly tame and it also attaches the animal to the owner, making it harder for it to hurt other people. Therefore, if there's some doubt about the animal's friendliness, just leash it. These are dangerous adventurers ANYWAY, they don't need a wolf if they decide to start causing trouble.
>>44486650
Everything in that post was said by the wolf-defenders in this thread. Its not a reach anon.
>>44486748
Again, druid can leave the wolf outside and teleport it when needed, no problem
>>44486783
Literally nobody said leashed wolf was That GM move, only you, so yes, you were reaching the stars
>>44486748
Fighter is demanded to strip down or bind his weapons.
What? Didn't you know this is a pacifist city? Gotta obey the laws, man.
>>44486781
Reasonable.
OK.
Thus the fools in this thread demanding entry to city, should have said a leash solution.
Notice they didn't. They expected to just walk in.
So who is reasonable here? The guy saying "no wolves running the streets", or the ones saying " I r druid, I has a wolf!!"?
>>44486833
It's a pacifist city so we have to break the Monk's arms and legs.
>>44486833
Ask wizard to cast illusion to make us look like zombies, somehow guards dot have problems with zombies. Simply genius, extra xp.
>>44486862
The monk will be bound in masterwork adamantine manacles, of course. Provided on site.
>>44486833
>city where everyone is armed
>fighter is nothing odd
Now, does everyone have a wolf? If not, the wolf would be out if the norm. Not a sword in its sheath.
>>44486862
He still can FoB with any part of his body
>>44486901
If everyone is armed why the fuck are they worried about a wolf?
>>44486901
wolves aren't that odd just say its a wolfhound or something
hell its fucking ye olden times who cares if you have a wolf maybe a bear or something scarier but come on its essentially a fucking dog to most people
>>44486901
>>city where everyone is armed
What the fuck kind of city are you talking about? I have never seen a city like this.
>>44486933
Nothing but wolves and druids in your city eh?
In medieval times gypsies had dancing bears, and nobody were afraid if the, the gypsies were another case
>>44486843
>Notice they didn't. They expected to just walk in.
Goddamn, anon, at least try to hide it.
>>44486933
Every city in Texas.
>>44486953
Obviously only the guards are permitted to bear arms, everyone else just hangs around in togas and robes. We don't trade with barbarians, you see.
>>44487001
And that's why zombies aren't arrested, makes sense
>>44485068
pet
>>44486156
>"Ah shit! Look Humfrey! Another one of those druibles and their smelly non-approved animals! You have your throwing rock ready? You know when you see a dangerous creature with sharp teeth the only sensible thing to do is throw rocks at them. No, no Humfrey, that would be stupid. You shouldn't throw your animal rock at walking skeletons. Skeletons aren't illegal, you've got to have a skeleton right? Of course you do chap."
>>44487579
>be a guard at gate
>4 drow come up and summon demons
>"enjoy your visit "
>laws are no fun, so everyone is welcome inside.
>next day 3 mages with a fire elemantal show uup
>welcome Them as well cause laws and safety are nofun.
>>44486920
>wolves aren't odd
>wolves are known for attacking travelers
>wolves are basically house pets
I'm wanting to be able to create an Ardent character for D&D 3.5e. Our DM is well known for giving out XP points generously, so we should be levelling up quite rapidly. With this in mind, I really want my character to have access to the Metamorphosis ability to make the most out of Metamorphic Transfer as soon as possible. Does anyone have any idea how I should plan out my build so I can get access to this as soon as possible? Using Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionics as reference.
>>44488229
Is this sarcasm, because what you're telling is actually true in my country
>>44486905
>He still can FoB with any part of his body
Seriously under-rated post.
>>44487112
Arrested? No.
We have druid with bears. Guards don't exist. They're obsolete.
>>44488263
Fuck your magic realm anon.
>>44488260
Not /tg/'s strong suit. Try giant in the playground's forums, or if you want to seriously optimize go to minmaxboards.
>>44488290
Monks op, nerf pls
>>44480029
>Ask /tg/ a question about the 3.5 with strict limitations.
>All advice immediately is outside those limitations.
Okay Anon, remember, the important thing is to have Fun.
So: you're a level 5 fighter in heavy plate armor? Do you have a Wisdom of 11 or better? If So: YOU MAY QUALIFY TO PLAY A CLERIC!
Improve your ability to tank with the ability to CURE YOUR OWN WOUNDS! summon TINY MINIONS to spread the defenses around and cover more ground!
Best of all: you'll only lose (on average) 1 HP and +1 to-hit at this level up, while gaining 6+ spells, and extra WILL save prowess!
So keep that chin up, and become a cleric. Today!
>>44485068
>Beckon
>Play
>Pet
>>44488370
Actually, I was thinking of its applications for the Humble Brother's Book of Pick-Up Lines.
>>44488324
Thanks Anon :)
