Hey all, if I remember correctly, 2nd edition 40K had armour save modifiers and other nuanced forms of crunch that disappeared in later editions (the last save modifier I remember was the 3rd edition choppas that only allowed 4+ or worse saves).
Does anyone who plays now want these things back? I like the idea of having armour save modifiers/to-hit penalties and bonuses/other nuanced forms of crunch.
Also, has anyone ever tried making a homebrew 40K that uses larger dice (d8/d10/d12... etc)? I love 40K more than any universe, but I can't stand that 5 probabilities ranging from 1/6 - 5/6 are supposed to be the basis for everything from a grot firing a shitty improvised pistol to a carnifex with giant crab claws or a plasma weapon.
bump, at least 1 of you had to have started 40k before 2005
Old rogue trader player here. GW decided it was too crunchy and wanted to move to a faster paced game style so out went armor modifiers and to hit modifiers with them. The last hold out of those old rules were the 3rd edition choppa rules IE any save better than 4+ is now 4+.
>>44474444
I guess I should have read the whole post before replying, this is what I get for being drunk.
For bringing the modifiers back just grab a copy of WHFB rules and try playing a game of 40k with them and see how it goes. We tried this once, it was different I'll give it that.
Af for the dice, it all simplifies down to about the same really. D10s would be interesting, but I think d6s are the happy medium. But that's just my two cents worth.
>>44474444
wow, you played in the rogue trader days? What was it like? Ive seen the rules and it looks like a game with the crunch of an RPG but the scale of a wargame. Was it an imba nightmare?
>>44474634
It was fun at the time. Hell, it would probably still be fun if I broke the book out and tried a game. Some of the rules were a hot, sticky mess but it was still playable. Closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is Necromunda or Mordheim.
Now I'm getting nostalgic and feeling old.
>>44475024
Also, it helped that we didn't take it seriously at all. Figuring out shooting modifiers and where the smoke cloud drifted or where the vortex moved that round (fuck vortex gernades!) could take forever sometimes, but it all worked somehow.
>>44474634
It was goofy as fuck if played without any restraints. It kind of needed a games master, or at least a tight scenario built and agreed on beforehand. We never actually used a lot of stuff in the book - there were a ton of random tables that we never once rolled on, for example.
It's not just the game that was different but the players. Back then players weren't as touchy. Everyone I knew was happy to play the weaker side in a scenario and took it as a fun challenge. Nowadays players are used to a different kind of competition where it has to be "fair", and seems to me like they even have invested a lot of self worth in the game's outcome.
>>44475323
It's more about everyone being busy with their jobs and wanting to have a fun and fair game in their free time. What was seen as imbalanced then doesn't exactly translate to the current imabalance.
>>44475471
>It's more about everyone being busy with their jobs and wanting to have a fun and fair game in their free time.
No, it has fuck all to do with that. Not wanting to play uphill has nothing to do with having worked hard, and everything to do with taking shit too seriously and being a sore loser, like more and more players today are. Nor would I say that 40k today is either fair or fun.
The player base was older on average back then anyway. At least half of the current player base are still in school.
>>44475641
Some of my favorite games were ones where I was at a disadvantage. Win or loose I'm in it to have fun. I'd rather loose an amazing game than win a bad game. I do my best to convey this mentality to those I game with, sometimes I succeed sometimes not.
But then I'm nearer 50 than 40.
My very first army was Chaos Space Marines back in 2e. Man, I miss that codex so much. I loved it. You could actually put some flavor into your list back then. Two people could play lists 100% devoted to the same god in entirely different ways. I remember getting sucked in by the fluff and getting all lubed up over a full Khornate list. I made a crazy combat monster HQ that had wings, a Daemon weapon, +1 strength and toughness, and a talisman of burning blood. I gave all of my 'Zerkers Khornate chainaxes, I gave the aspiring champions talismans and power weapons, loaded everybody up into rhinos and went to town. I would throw my 'Zerkers headlong into the front lines, which had already been softened up by the battle cannon on my defiler, and then crush one unit after another. IG were my favorite to fight. Every time I smashed a unit on the charge I would sweep right into the next group on the gun line and continue the carnival of carnage. Then my specialist troupes would hit. My HQ flew with a group of raptors and I had a squad of possessed in a Landraider. They would hit the flanks of the hard targets and just clean house all day.
Sure, my army wasn't really the best. A good shooting rounds from the enemy could pretty much ruin my whole battle plan, but it was much more fun back then. You were actually encouraged to customize your army and there weren't as many "cookie cutter" lists.
I dunno man, 40K just lost all of its soul. I'm about to list the last of my models on ebay...
>>44475918
>40K just lost all of its soul
That seems to sum it up perfectly.
>>44472992
There's a relic las pistol in Mont'ka that does this for guard. Nice gun actually.
>>44475918
They have gone the wrong direction IMHO; instead of bloating the rules, they should have just kept making new models with campaign books and shit.
If they did a Streets of Vogen campaign once a year with persistent store events tracking the effects of your army on the campaign, or the Chaos invasion of the Cadian gate, it would do so much for the hobby and make them bank.
I remember playing DA and fucking up Chaos players in my store to help keep purity on a planet and feeling like those games mattered.
Still enjoy it though.
Skirmishing all day tomorrow.
>>44476416
The players are just as much at fault for that. Don't pretend like you still can't have fun games in the spirit of old 40k nowadays. Just don't be a formation spamming cheesing faggot.
>>44475918
You're describing the 3.5 Edition Codex Chaos not 2nd Ed
>>44480143
Ya I know, I played in a group with 1 notorious min-maxing corner sitter. It completely ruined things.
By the way, does anyone have a link to download the 2E rulebook? Or even the armies. I'm pretty interested right now
>>44472992
They were cool but they made armor saves besides terminator armor worthless. Guard essentially had no save and against Eldar marines basically had a 5+ save.
It really skewed the game towards low armor high damage units like every Eldar unit ever.
>>44472992
I don't have a problem with armor save mods in general and I think they worked well in fantasy, but the issue with 2nd Ed is that they were on literally everything except las guns and a few other shitty weapons.
I would be okay with terminators going back to something like 4+ on 2d6 for AP3 and above, 7+ for AP2 and 10+ for AP1 though
>>44475641
>At least half of the current player base are still in school.
Half of my army is older than those ladz.
>>44483476
You can probably torrent them or just do a google search. I had them uploaded on mediafire for a while, but all of those came from a simple search of the pirate bay.
