The Thunder Warriors come back in Legion strength with the shortened lifespan removed.
How fucked is everyone who stands against them?
>>44452255
are they mad at the emperor?
>>44452255
Not fucked at all seeing as he already has a massive hole in his gut
>>44452392
If this roll is even, yes.
Rolled 7 (1d100)
>>44452470
fuck
>>44452255
depends on the legion, but really it's them who are fucked.
Let's assume they have 10,000 warriors.
That's a significant threat, but still less than number of CSM engaged in the first war of armageddon.
you really underestimate imperium's willingness and ability to drown foes in bodies
>>44452514
Yeah, but wasn't there a story where like one Thunder Warrior beat the shit out of at least five or ten Space Marines before going down?
>>44452255
Not much. Thunder Warriors were pretty shitty in that they relied entirely on melee, and were basically human versions of Orks. They aren't tactically gifted like Space Marines, and they aren't as good as solo warriors as Custodes are.
They get murdered by a couple Chapters mounting a Crusade or anybody with enough dakka to point at them. It should also be noted that their armor is completely shit.
>>44452569
>>44452542
>>44452514
>The Emperor dispatched the XII Legion (Later known as the World Eaters) to quell the uprising and punish the traitors. Despite being severely outnumbered by one of the greatest Space Marine legions, the Thunder Warriors managed to slaughter four to five times their number in Astartes.
Eh, that's a pretty big punch they seem to have.
>>44452569
>as solo warriors as Custodes are.
>citation needed
>>44452708
I just want to field an army of Thunder Warriors. I don't care how they fluff it, just let me run them. They could do it as like Fabius Bile manages to remake them without the longevity flaws and they're Chaos Aligned, I don't give a shit.
>>44452708
>quill pusher at the Administratum digs up that record
>checks estimated Thunder Warrior numbers, 10,000?
>each kills on average at most 5 astartes before falling
>allocates 60,000 astartes to the battle
>prepares several "chapter deemed extinct" forms for the aftermath
Another day for the Imperium.
>>44452569
>and they aren't as good as solo warriors as Custodes are.
Well I don't see how thats relevant sine Custodes never leave the Imperial Palace. So Unless this Legion spawns on Terra they should be able to put up more then a fight for the Space Marines they'd have to fight. They were capable in ranged combat (OPs pic is holding a bolter for goodness sake) They just had more focus on melee since Terra in their age lacked the resources.
Just what *are* the powers of the Thunder Warriors anyway? From what I've gathered they are cruder than their Primarch and Astartes counterparts overall. Presumably bigger, stronger, tougher and perhaps faster but with a short life span.
I imagine they lack the more complex and unique organs that make marines more effective overall and don't have the same level of training; is this correct, can anyone confirm?
>>44452785
Nah, I get that, but wiping 60 codex chapters off the books is a pretty big deal, even in the IoM
>>44452752
But why would Fabius want to? Those Warriors were for the most part loud and reckless and obsessed with fighting. The exact opposite of what he would have wanted to keep his work safe.
>>44452752
>Fabius Bile's Chaos Thunder Warriors.
>>44452708
Yes, which is why you don't fucking play their game. Obviously sending the World Eaters to fight something physically superior to a space marine isn't going to go well.
What you send instead is the Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, White Scars, or Salamanders.
>>44452819
They are stronger then Astartes than average but are "unstable" resulting in a short life span and I think in the "Last Church" book one even just randomly melted into a puddle of acid. They also lack versatility as they are simply fighters and nothing more. They lack the ability of some Astartes to build and maintain empires, weapons, and forms of transport.
>>44452819
>Just what *are* the powers of the Thunder Warriors anyway? From what I've gathered they are cruder than their Primarch and Astartes counterparts overall.
I don't think crude is necessarily the right word. From what I've read, they seem like they were actually more sophisticated (they took much longer to make, for instance, and we're not talking about in the time where people prayed to machines to solve HTTP 404 errors)...Just basically, bigger, meaner, and thoroughly obsessed with fighting.
>>44452813
Being capable of holding a gun means shit anon- the issue is if they practice combined arms at all. A shitload of Thunder Warriors toting bolters is going to do jack shit- they need tanks, aircraft, drop pods, APC's, superheavies, artillery, and strike cruisers.
>>44452896
Just because a process take longer doesn't make it better/more refined; often it can be the complete opposite.
>>44452838
Because they'd make the most perfect Khornate Berserkers. Though I know that's not really Fabius' bag.
>>44452918
You said they relied entirely on melee which is wrong, they had limited ranged ability.
But you are correct because that is what will destroy them. These are warriors made to fight in scenario where they didn't have to care about jack shit and could just ruin everything they fought by running at it hard enough. A combined Crusade force of a few IG regiments and chapters will destroy them with tactics and bombardment.
>>44452837
Just assign a couple companies from a bunch of chapters, and fully commit only those suspected of heretical leanings. Add a few million IG, the force of the Navy and all the fancy weaponry and logistics of the 40k war machine and it'll be fine.
>>44452955
If Fabius wanted the perfect Khornate berskerker he'd just clone Angron. Again.
>>44452938
>Just because a process take longer doesn't make it better/more refined; often it can be the complete opposite.
The fluff makes it sound like that's exactly the reason though.
>>44453015
I wouldn't count bolters as ranged ability anon, it just means they're capable of small arms fire which doesn't count for much, no different than the world eaters, they're obsessed with melee. As you said, a couple Chapters will Guardsmen should destroy them.
>>44453049
Huh, well I suppose the utility of space marines is that they are more stable, more versatile and easier to mass produce.
>>44453088
>easier to mass produce.
Mainly this. IIRC the stability part was basically just because no one had bothered with the progenitor gland or whatever that's called.
>40gay fluff
>Not retarded
You guys are pathetic, get a life get a job get a gf losers lmao
>>44453129
It's actually kinda spooky to think Astartes, the all around badass and rare marvels of bio engineering were actually meant to be something that is mass produced. Althought true, they would never outmatch the Guards in sheer numbers it is still quite terrifying to think the emperor designed the space marines to be something to be produced in large quantities.
But I suppose it also show how much 40k like it's grimdark, because marines gets wiped all the time and despite how there are supposedly 1000 ish chapters of at least around 1000 (assuming the chapter is doing fine) marines...and yet it's still barely enough.
>>44453219
you do know your on /tg/ right?
I've wanted to model some Thunder Warriors using a mix of HH and Stormcast Eternals.
Paint them dull gunmetal and bronze with lots of blood, dirt, rust and oxidized effects. Mods seem easy - clip the hammer out of the hand, glue in oldest pattern of bolter available. Add guitar string/copper wire cables to taste.
>>44453255
Ignore the b8. Do not speak to the b8. Do not look at the b8.
>>44453248
What I really want to know is how many Space Marines have been made and killed over the course of the 40k history. If there's around a million at any time, with all of the battles and such, just how many have there been? Tens, hundreds of millions?
>>44452255
They're just shitty Marines.
Someone, let's say Dark Angels, solos.
>>44453342
>They're just shitty Marines.
>Someone, let's say Dark Angels, solos.
Yeah, no.
>>44453255
You know not all gamers are pathetic manbabies like 40gayfags right?
>>44452255
They still die to orbital bombardment and superior tactics/tech. These guys are big dumb brutes compared to Astartes and fuck, even marines gets fucked over all the time.
>>44453408
Man, your life must be so much cooler than ours if you are wasting your time trying to crap a thread about fucking thunder warriors, of all things. Yeah I'm sure your super hot girlfriend, (which totally exist right?) think this is a worthwhile use of your time together.
>>44453382
Not him but any single chapter would wipe them out. They'd just bomb the shit out of them and then send in the troops to gun down the occational lone survivor (or alternatively quarantine the planet until they melt)
>>44453465
Marines are canoically the most powerful warriors of mankind.
They'd goomba stomp Thunder Warriors.
>>44453465
I love the assumption that they aren't similarly equipped.
>>44453493
Except no. Thunder warriors can take down four to five times their number before falling, customers are even better in single combat that that and Primarchs, when taking it seriously, wipe the floor with custodes.
Astartes are the lasgun of super soldiers. So simple anyone can use it, durable as get out and rechargeable on nearly anything. But not all the powerful in comparison to the plasma gun of the Thunder Warrior. Which, much like the plasma gun, can melt and explode at any moment but until then will outdo any simple lasgun.
>>44452255
Ignoring black library fanwank, aren't Thunder Warriors basically just shitty, early versions of Astartes? They were something that Emperor created to conquer Earth with and ditched as soon as he got enough good tech to start the Primarch Project. Not EVERYTHING older is better in 40k.
>>44453514
Even if they were, you'd just call in the navy and blow them up that way.
>>44453575
Then why big E was able to create buttload of them on post apocalyptic Terra yet never made any of them as soon as he got tech from Mars? He didn't even tried to fix them, just threw away the whole idea.
>>44453651
Because, as it's been said in this thread; they might be stronger than marines but they aren't as versatile. These guys are berserker solely designed to rush into melee and fuck shit up against techno barbarians. They are also less reliable, less stable and a bitch to produce compared to the Astartes.
>>44453607
>aren't Thunder Warriors basically just shitty, early versions of Astartes?
If you ignore the BL, then there's basically nothing on them. But I'm pretty sure all sources are pretty clear they were bigger and stronger than SM.
>>44453651
Because GW. I mean hell, look at what he did with the primarchs.
>>44452895
>I think in the "Last Church" book one even just randomly melted into a puddle of acid
That is not in the story. The flashbacks focus on how they slaughtered regular men. In The Outcast Dead, two Thunder Warriors hold off a group of Astartes, though.
>>44453575
>Except no.
Except yes. It's been stated time and again that this is so.
>>44453723
Cite me. Because in this thread alone I can cite you them being stronger. Less disciplined yes, but not weaker.
I wouldn't send any Astartes after them. Instead throw the Navy at the problem. Then Magos biologis to grab all the genetic material for testing.
>>44452255
TW are basically ogryns as astartes. Horrible and scary if you get close up with them but any space marines worth anything would simply outsmart those canned retards without loosing too much guys. They were designed as a super-barbarians and that's why they were abandoned as soon as Emprah needed real soldiers.
>>44453790
>Cite me.
How about the rulebook?
Pretty much any time Marines are introduced we get the most powerful line.
>>44453828
>How about the rulebook?
>Pretty much any time Marines are introduced we get the most powerful line.
Huh? They're seriously only like fifth or sixth in line.
>>44453799
>canned retards
Why does everyone seem to assume these guys were stupid?
>>44453884
>They're seriously only like fifth or sixth in line.
Nope, they're number one. From RT to modern day.
>>44453828
Well then. I guess a space marine can take down Magnus and Sanguinius at the same time then.
Astartes are the strongest SOLDIERS I'll grant you. TW are just berzerkers scarcely better than the techno barbarians they killed, Primarchs are leaders, custodes are bodyguards and assassins are.. Well, assassins.
But astartes aren't the best fighters. Best all rounders, maybe. But that depends on chapter.
>>44453969
>Well then. I guess a space marine can take down Magnus and Sanguinius at the same time then.
Space marines have defeated Primarchs, but regardless of that Primarchs exist within the ranks of the Astartes.
>Astartes are the strongest SOLDIERS I'll grant you.
I don't care what YOU grant. I'll take the actual fluff and you'll have to deal with that.
>Astartes who represent Humanity’s best hope for survival, for they are the greatest warriors the galaxy has ever known.
>>44452255
>How fucked is everyone who stands against them?
>No orbital support
Send some scrub navymen and nuke whatever planet theyre on.
>>44454079
>>44454079
Drinking the kool-aid
>>44454153
>Thunder Warriors can kill like a hundred space marines >:DD
>Actually the fluff says Space marines are the best
>I-impossible p-p-propaganda, k-k-k-k-kooooooooooooool-aids
Just embrace it gracefully.
>>44452731
read some books. the ones the focus on the custodes show that while they are superior warriors to space marines they are solo warriors and lack the cohesive soldier tactics of the astartes.
>>44454250
Books say a fight between them would be too close to call, and that was GC astartes. Guilliman removed their weakness. Post HH Astartes would there have the edge on Custodes.
Warhammer Wikia
>The Thunder Warriors were the genetically-engineered warriors of Terra created by the Emperor of Mankind to unite the homeworld of humanity beneath his rule in the 30th Millennium. They were the first gene-enhanced warriors created by the Emperor and served as the precursors to the present-day Space Marines. Wrought to be living weapons, the Thunder Warriors were known to be physically stronger, more savage and more potent in combat than the later Astartes, though they were not as long-lived.
Lexicanum
>Thunder Warriors were the elite super soldiers that marched with the Emperor to conquer Terra in the Wars of Unification. The engineering that the Emperor used to create the Thunder Warriors, whilst creating superior fighters, was not as efficient as what was used later to create the Space Marines
1d4chan
>Instead of just showering bullets on the surviving Warriors like amore sensibleless manly Legion might have, the War Hounds rushed in and engaged them in close combat. But Thunder Warriors are basically mini-Primarchs without the immortality, and they were able to claim 4 to 5 Marine kills in melee for each Warrior. After 5 hours of carnage and RAEG of old vs. new, some Marines in orbit got bored and decided to join the party, but the party was already done and left nothing but Thunder Warrior corpses, lots of War Hound corpses, and a lot and lots of blood.
>>44454250
Not what's in question. Custodes definitely kick the shit out of Marines. The idea that they're better than Thunder Warriors is what was being questioned.
>>44452542
There's also a story where a Custodes beat the shit out of a Primarch when he got uppity about Daddy being too busy for him.
>>44454637
No there's not. End this meme.
>>44454666
But they did spar, and he did win.
>>44454303
I think custodes are just stabilized TW.
>>44454751
>But they did spar, and he did win.
End
this
meme
>>44454794
It was never a meme to begin with, it's canon.
>>44454838
No, it's not.
It is merely a meme that you perhaps believe is canon.
>>44454637
False. Dorn had a verbal confrontation with a custode, Dorn said he'd kick the shit out of him, the custode said "You're welcome to try." Dorn then laughed at the idea since they both knew the custode would lose. Dorn respected him though, for his unwavering loyalty to the Emperor even in the face of stacked odds, and they both went on their ways.
>>44454751
I could see that
>>44454858
I have no evidence but I choose to believe it anyway.
>>44454272
Wut.
Post Codex Space Marines are only better than Custodes in terms of logistics and possibly experience depending on the Chapter and Company.
>>44455506
Codex Marines removed the weakness of GC Marines.
GC Marine = Custode
therefore
Codex Marine > Custode
>>44455601
>GC Marine = Custode
They were not equal they were (and arguably still are) inferior.
>>44455601
nigga you retarted.
>>44455743
>They were not equal
It was said that a fight between the two would be too close to call.
>>44455787
My logic is impeccable.
>>44455601
>>44455874
It would be too close too call by the look of size or strength alone.
I would also like it to be known that was a blacklibrary book and interpretations vary by author.
>>44455601
this is so retarded by brain hurts
Thunder warriors would be a perfect addition to the guard. It's not like the average gaurd has a long life ahead of him to begin with.
And am I the only one that thinks the rationale for culling them in the first place is rather flimsy?
>>44453651
To use an analogy, it will always be better to have five Shermans than one Tiger even if a Tiger can kill five Shermans.
>>44456248
As the russians say, having the best tank is not as good as having a tank.
>>44456177
Yeah. But Emperor is weird like that.
Making Thunder Warriors is expensive as fuck though. It would literally be easier to make them Astartes via progenoid glands.
Still, I'd have "used up" the Thunder Warriors, not destroying them.
>>44454637
40k custodes got curbstomped after a nurgle warband managed to assault Pluto facilities and vomit one of them to death.
>>44456988
Are you trying to say that 40k writers have no idea how to have consistent power levels?
Astartes got stronger going into 40K while Custodes got weaker?
That's not surprising given their roles.
M31 = Emperor's personal vanguard on the battlefield vs. his nameless, faceless, mass-produced hordes.
M41 = Emperor's custodians shuffling around on Terra vs. the Imperium's vanguard
>>44457073
>M41=Custodes wage a secret war against demonic incursion in the webway deep under the imperial palace while maintaining their legion numbers and guarding the emperor on their downtime.
FTFY
>>44457731
The throne room breach was sealed. I think some shitty BL HH retcon changed it.
>>44452895
In outcast dead one of them was a thunder warrior captain that had a working biolab where he was trying to make more thunder warriors and cure his limited lifespan. He even suuccessfully made his own super soldiers for his criminal empire. He did t seem unsophisticated, crude maybe not intelligent
>>44453219
>get a job
How do you think i afford GWs ripoff prices my mane?
>Spend your life helping the emperor take over Earth
>Expect to retire and live out your remaining short lifespan in peace
>Lol no Emps decides to line you all up and let his new toys kill you.
Emps is a dick that deserved everything that happened to him. Space Marines better hope he doesn't come back with new ideas to replace them to finally beat chaos
>>44457799
Maybe, but you got to admit; an eternal secret war beneath the imperial palace on earth between the infinite daemons of the Warp and golden supersoldiers locked in combat until the end of days....
That's pretty fucking metal.
>>44454858
He's talking about Constantin Valdor, who's a "custodes" in the same way Guiliman would be an "ultramarine".
>>44452255
old thunder warriors are just crude space marines
new thunder warriors are what most fans imagine space marines to be like
So an entire legion of fanfiction marines? everyone's going to be pretty fucked.
>>44454079
>for they are the greatest warriors the galaxy has ever known.
You do know that Lychguard and Triarch Praetorian which are the elite of the Necrons totally overpower and move down marines?
Also I am sure the Eldar aspect warriors and exarchs are way above the marines in skill and way more deadly.
Greatest warriors the galaxy ever known? Pffft. Hogwash.
>>44452731
Read the HH novels
"The first heretic" mentions this.
>>44452569
In Outcast Dead the mehreen protagonists pretty easily beat their Custodes Guard but the Thunder Warrior renegades they meet are much tougher.
In fact, Custodes' power have never been directly compared to Thunder Warriors in 40k.
>>44452542
Outcast Dead
>>44452896
>>44452938
Thunder Warriors are kinda like the Lamborghini of warriors, compared to the Humvee of Space Marines.
Space Marines were specifically designed to be pumped out relatively quickly, and with few quirks. Thunder Warriors had a lot more effort and work put into their creation, but were temperamental and prone to blowing the fuck up in a rage.
In some of the stories, Thunder Warriors are far more brutal, powerful, and have crazy strong psychic immunity, but they weren't built for the long haul. They were made to go fast, hard, and burn out quickly because of it.
>>44459078
I suppose in theory they're just Thunder Warrior+ designed for much the same purpose by the same man but with more time, experience and resources to expend into their construction.
But then again 40k writing.
>>44459212
Thunder Warriors were made to conquer the world ASAP with no regard to their physical or mental stability afterwards. Custodes were a long term project meant for guard duty. Very different purposes when you think about it.
>>44452255
well, if they all still use Thunder Armor, then no, they will die.
>>44456338
Is there a reason they couldn't just reproduce like normal humans? As far as I know they don't require Geneseed or special organ implants
>>44458322
>thinking the Thunder Warriors ever even considered retiring
Take Angron, up his anger by a factor of 10, and you have a Thunder Warrior. They would never have peacefully retired anywhere.
>>44459141
man, that was a hugely shit book
I can see a governor of a world with an interest in history looking at the TWs and deciding he wants some as the elite of his PDF.
Or cat least the version of them idealized by official history where they appear as noble but brutal and savage.
Commissions slightly shady ad-mech to build them.
So it's Thunder Warrior > Custodes > Astartes for physical power.
Custodes > Thunder Warrior > Astartes for expertise as an individual fighter.
And Astartes > Custodes > Thunder Warrior for squad and up combat?
And not to forget, Astartes >>>>>>> Custodes >>>> Thunder Warrior for ease of production.
>>44452708
I don't get how that's considered narratively in any way advantegous for big E to just be able and evidently willing to make better guys than he actually makes.
>>44458322
I've heard before that the Emperor was probably going to discard the Space Marines once baseline humanity evolved to their final form as round-eared Eldar.
>>44452255
Are they Exterminatus-proof?
>>44461005
I can see that.
He would probably not understand why they wouldn't let him kill them also.
Emps is fucking awful.
>>44452392
Taranis wasn't so they would probably be loyal. Not that this is great news for those that usurped the emprah's powah for 10k years.
>>44461144
If they can be persuaded of their legitimacy as the Emperor's government then all is well.
Also it would be good to see veterans of the Great Crusade chewing out the Space Wolves.
>Points out all the time Russ was a dick to his fellow Primarchs
>Points out that Russ is a big reason the Imperium had 1 less Legion defending Terra
>Why the fuck are you riding dogs to battle
>There are no wolves on Fenris, those are feral dogs.
>Even we, demented and psychotic as we were, at least knew how to read and wright. Fucking learn dipshits
>Supported the Psyker ban, still has psykers, what the fuck are you doing?
>Your close combat dudes are young and shit.
>Your most veteran dudes are shit at close combat.
>Cut your fucking hair so you can wear a helmet.
>Put on a fucking helmet you fucking idiot
>No I don't care about "muh heightened senses". A slightly better sense of smell is no use on the battle field if a bullet has just pulped your brain.
>PUT THE FUCKING HELMET ON SVEN YOU FUCKING DIP SHIT I WON'T ASK YOU POLITELY AGAIN!
>Become best friends with Bjorn.
Eventually Space Wolves declare an duel. Space Wolf gets knocked the fuck out.
Thunder Warriors eventually end up accepting their new role in the chapters as close combat wrecking ball squads.
>>44461237
Dude, if you hate space wolves so much just say it
>>44462523
It works for ever Legion/Chapter
>In my day Blood Angels used to suck blood, not dick.
>You call that an insane Berserk Rage, you know nothing
>STOP FUCKING AROUND WITH YOUR HAIR AND LEARN TO FIGHT
>How about you drop the mug and pick up a weapon? Just a suggestion.
>WHY ARE YOU HOGGING TANK DESIGNS YOU SELFISH CUNTS!?
>I might be a biological fuck up but at least our founder wasn't a mutated nut job that started talking to himself.
>Flesh Tearers are alright, just wouldn't want to watch them eat.
>>44461005
What? That's not true.
>>44461130
No he isn't.
>>44462763
>No he isn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
>>44462795
The fact that he's suffered on the throne for ten thousand years for humanity says otherwise.
>>44462867
>Implying that was willing
>Implying Dorn and friends weren't just sick of his bullshit
>Implying the surviving Primarchs didn't realize it was either the Emperor shuts the fuck up or the Imperium dies
Getting stuck on the throne was his own fault. If he hadn't been fucking around with xeno-tech, a thing he was totally against anyone else doing, his ass wouldn't have been needed to plug the hole in reality he made in his basement.
But then if he hadn't made a deal with the Chaos gods, a thing he was totally against anyone else doing, and then trying to double cross a bunch of entities beyond time and space that could read his mind like a large print book he wouldn't have had his ass beat.
But also if he hadn't been an insufferable back stabbing autismal cunt who confused psychic brain rape for diplomacy the Imperium there would have been no rebellion by his own sons.
>>44462947
You know he did negotiate with the people who gave him the Dusk Raiders right?
>>Implying that was willing
>>Implying Dorn and friends weren't just sick of his bullshit
>>Implying the surviving Primarchs didn't realize it was either the Emperor shuts the fuck up or the Imperium dies
You know he's powering a psychic lighthouse right?
>deal with Chaos
Lies told by horrible creatures who just want to watch the galaxy burn, and fap to the sound of the screams of the innocent.
>Xeno tech
He wanted a better way to get around, there was a Webway gate. Webway beats Warp travel.
>>44452708
>World Eaters
>one of the greatest Space Marine legions
The Emperor probably hoped the cunts would all die.
>>44463175
They were War Hounds back then. They had no nails, better color scheme, and discipline.
>>44463059
>You know he did negotiate with the people who gave him the Dusk Raiders right?
Yes I'm sure the psychic brain rape train negotiated. And if they had said no he would have "negotiated".
Everybody who has seen through the psyker static the Emperor generates is usually less than happy at what they see. One dude even deciding that walking into a burning building was a better deal than joining the Emperor's regime.
But he had followers. Despite the reasoning ability of a 12 year old, the 0 people skills, extreme hypocrisy and possibly some sort of autism he managed to sway whole worlds with the force of his personality. Yeah, no. Not seeing it. Every time the Emperor is seen it is doing something stupid.
>You know he's powering a psychic lighthouse right?
I have a vegetable powered light bulb. I am sure I don't have to point out the similarities.
>Lies told by horrible creatures who just want to watch the galaxy burn, and fap to the sound of the screams of the innocent.
Told by one of his fellow perpetuals. They knew him before his whole Emperor thing. They thought he was awful.
>He wanted a better way to get around, there was a Webway gate. Webway beats Warp travel.
There was a faulty, broken piece of xeno-tech that he had no idea how to fix or use but he did know it operated by poking holes in reality. He could have asked the people who owned it for help but that would have involved actually having to deal with people who were less inclined to put up with his bullshit.
The more you hear about the Emperor the more he seems like C.W. Chandler.
>>44463221
>Yes I'm sure the psychic brain rape train negotiated. And if they had said no he would have "negotiated".
I have the fluff.
>There was a faulty, broken piece of xeno-tech that he had no idea how to fix or use but he did know it operated by poking holes in reality. He could have asked the people who owned it for help but that would have involved actually having to deal with people who were less inclined to put up with his bullshit.
>Asking the Eldar for help
They had their own problems to deal with during 30k.
>>44454637
Valdor sparred with horus and won, winning russ's respect
Thunder warriors is dumbest part of the lore
Yet another special snowflake marine variant. Clearly the prototype version of the mass produced space marine is 4-5 times stronger than regular ones, because reasons. Snowflake reasons. Clearly the hardest fighting was only gonna be on earth, not battling the untold horrors of the galaxy.
>>44453041
A clone of Angron would be more sane without the more powerful original butchers nail.
>>44463414
Earth was a pretty horrible place, mate.
>>44463435
you cannot make the idea that thunder warriors are stronger than regular astartes be sensible in any way shape or form
>>44463316
So the well know psychic dude went, in person, before the leaders of Old Albion and those lords and ladies acted contrary to expectation and character and signed a peace treaty.
Not doing anything to disprove the whole "Emperor was fucking around psychically" thing. If anything that actually supports it slightly.
Also in M30 the eldar were well and truly up shit creak and facing an uncertain future where survival past next Tuesday was not guaranteed. That was probably the most opportune time to strike a deal with them. Protection for technical expertise.
>>44463484
>So the well know psychic dude went, in person, before the leaders of Old Albion and those lords and ladies acted contrary to expectation and character and signed a peace treaty.
>Not doing anything to disprove the whole "Emperor was fucking around psychically" thing. If anything that actually supports it slightly.
How?
>That was probably the most opportune time to strike a deal with them. Protection for technical expertise.
Lorgar mentioned something like that. Didn't work out.
>>44463461
>because the first version of something is never, ever over-engineered.
>>44463525
>How?
The dudes who had been the bitter rivals to the Unification from the start, were holding on to the possibility of restarting their own drive towards global unity, had the military might go give the Emperor a run for his money, who had just come out of the tyranny of an previous Unspeakable King and it seems the majority of people believed they would not capitulate on bended knee before another Unspeakable King just decided, after one meeting with him, to go "yup, we want to join your Imperium and surrender all sovereignty toy you".
No. Not seeing it.
Then he should have gone to a different craftworld or refugee fleet and made the offer. At some point one of them is going to put avoiding a fate so much worse than mere death above a bit of repair work.
>>44463613
>No. Not seeing it.
So you're not going to believe that the Emperor is possible of negotiating without using psychic powers to make things more favorable to him?
I miss when the Thunder Warriors were shitty proto-space marines that needed to be phased out to take on all the bad shit in space and not super-awesome cool guys that eat plasma pistols and make space marines looks like pansies.
>>44463780
They were good times. They made some sense then.
>Oh no, this weapon of mass destruction is too mass destructiony - No Evil Dark Lord ever.
>>44463780
Well in 40K anything old is inherently better than anything that can be made now, I can see the Thunder Warriors being the soldier equivalent of a super car, while the Astartes are the Toyota Hilux
it's not a matter of strength or capability but in reliability
>>44463613
He didn't want anyone to know. If he would have gone to the elves and asked for help they could have easily stopped his pet project all together.
>>44463897
The alternative was so much better.
Fuck around with barely understood xeno-tech on the key-stone planet of the Imperium. So much safer than anyone finding out.
>>44463976
I don't think he counted on his demigod son popping up after binge drinking chaos kool aid.
>>44464252
So his entire web-way project relied on
>This will work so long as nothing goes wrong and Chaos doesn't touch it
This after making a deal with the Chaos gods which he went back on.
>>44464308
>a deal with the Chaos gods which he went back on.
Fuck off Black Library :^)
>>44463414
They also died from enhancements and were closer to abhuman monsters than space marines, who are biologically just a superior human.
>>44464308
Hey Horus, you know all those powers your daddy has? He totally stole them from us, in our own house none the less!
Why don't you come in and we'll give them to you no strings attached!
>>44464429
I'd believe them
Check that
I'd believe them twice
>>44463976
>literally the safest planet in the galaxy
>>44463414
I always saw them as a way pf The E practicing ways to make a better soldier.
>>44452255
I'd love a Custodes and Thunder Warrior army
Maybe roll them into one for simplicity sake but I know Thunder Warriors will never happen
>>44463414
>yet another
Grey Knights are the only real off shoot of Astartes.
Everyone else are just space marines in different clothes or Custodes I guess. Thunderwarriors are what happens when you take the physical part of space marines too far.
>>44460924
I was imagining something like
WS:5 BS:3 S/T:5 I:3 A:2 W:2 LD:10 4+ Rage or something like that
They're better in melee but arent as tacticool as astartes. Like ogryns but less dumb
>>44465091
>implying something that kills 4:1 would have a lower initiate than its prey, or worse BS.
>>44453607
No, they were cruder versions of the custodes, created for the same type of mission - bitter fights in close quarters, never far from their base
>>44452255
IG gets chewed up in the meatgrinder, as usual.
After they lost a few million men, someone higher up says "fuck this", and (maybe) retreats the surviving IG-regiments into space. Cue orbital bombardement.
Lots of dead Thunder Warriors.
>>44452255
>How fucked is everyone who stands against them?
Unless they have the attending fleet assets and logistical support they only one who will be fucked is them
>>44460956
They weren't better because they were highly unstable. Marines are simply more reliable while still being pretty good.
>>44465617
>implying power fisted terminators can't take out a shit ton of guardsmen
shiggy
>>44466335
This. Asking about how fucked 40k would be if whatever was in the universe is dumb. Unless that thing has the ability to fly itself and take on entire fleets, or has a fleet, the universe is fine. It's also probably fine if that thing can't reproduce, the galaxy is a big place.
C'mon guys, we all know the bait they're using and what they're looking for....
>obviously they wouldn't be able to get "plasma bullets" for their guns and their plans would fizzle out.
C'mon guys, jv bait
>>44465617
If they had power weapons or even just dual CCWs they would absolutely murder tacticals, even world eater (warhound) ones
>>44468338
nah
>>44471464
yeah
