Why are Ultramarines better than other space marines? Is it superior genetics? Is it superior training or culture? Perhaps it is a combination of the two or some insubstantial quality of the soul.
>>44443007
Plot armor.
>>44443007
superior marketing by GW marketers
>>44443007
>Why are Ultramarines better than other space marines?
You spelled "world eaters" wrong faggot.
>>44443143
>world eaters
>>44443164
>>44443049
What do you mean by this?
Because they wear and are named after blue, which means they are good, and fight doods who wear red, which means they are bad. Blue good, good wins. Welcome to selling doods.
>>44443262
go home reddit boi
40K's big hero mascots.
very pure if not purest geneseed. they don't suffer from too much psychic power, mutations, butcher's nails, bad luck, black rage or similar, wolfen bullshit... the list goes on
guilliman was a great leader and tactician/strategist
the whole ultramar empire makes them really stable too recruit, economy and wargear wise
ultramarines are overall very balanced. their culture doesn't lead them to death like imperial fists because of revenge or redemption, world eaters because brute force. they don't slaughter populations like carcharodons or night lords. even before codex astartes they were flexible in every way.
they got many characters who are really strong. tigurius, marneus kalgar etc. that scout guy even trains neophytes from other chapters so i guess their training is on point overall.
can't say if defeating hive fleet behemoth was a victory or a defeat for them though
>>44443302
i guess he means that they have always been THE chapter in the artwork, in the fluff - they have been whored out as the default space marine for ever. and poster boys don't fail
>>44443335
>Reddit meme
You're trying too hard to fit in. Out of curiosity, when does your school start up again?
>>44443418
>post 2012 meme from meme crunch
>gets butthurt when called reddit
>>44443418
You literally posted a reddit meme you dingaling. A bad one at that.
>very versatile
>pure geneseed
>stable recruitment
>great ties to the rest of the Imperium
>their biggest flaw is lone retards sticking to the Codex religiously and lone tryhards disregarding other Chapters, so some Chapters dislike them
>muh Ward making up fluff
>muh Imperium Secundus
Disregard anyone who uses this 2 arguments, they don't know their fluff, are retarded or b8.
>>44443594
>Disregard anyone who uses this 2 arguments, they don't know their fluff, are retarded or b8.
>>44443679
what?
>>44443594
They fucked up more than Magnus by attracting the Tyranids to the galaxy.
>>44443712
That wasn't the Ultramarines though.
They used the Pharos with wisdom.
It was an Iron Warrior who fucked it up.
>>44443712
>BL bullshit
>>44443356
Also they lend themselves most to Roman marines and that sells well to those who wank over Rome (cos they think they would have been elite class and not pleb cannon fodder) like burgerclappers
>>44443732
Don't blame a solider for following orders. Blame his commander which happens to be Girlyman. His obsession with creating Imperium Secundus has led to all of this.
>>44443848
>His obsession with creating Imperium Secundus has led to all of this.
Nope. Foolish Iron Warrior overloading the mechanism did it.
>>44443865
I don't blame troopers for the folly of their commanders and neither should you.
>>44444029
There was no folly from Guilliman though.
Only an Iron Faggot.
>>44444097
An Iron Faggot who did it to save his Imperial Fist husbando.
Disgusting.
>>44443007
Probably they pic their recruits from civilised people instead of searching for the toughest murderhobo
>>44443594
If it weren't for this piece of artwork the smurfs would be considered bleh tier.
But i still believe in the day they will make a really big marneus calgar. Thats the only reason im not shitposting right now.
>>44443329
>fight doods who wear red
>>44443007
Adaptability. They can't do anything as well as other marines in their speciality, but they can do everything pretty well.
Thus, they survive and can do well on nearly all battlefields. Therefore they have a high number of victories a specialists require specialist battles to function correctly.
>>44445142
Tricky clever bad guys who wear blue which is good but are still bad. They're red on the inside
>>44445228
>They can't do anything as well as other marines in their speciality
Ummmm...
>>44445142
I miss the Son's pre-heresy appearance. They looked so regal.
>>44445261
we're all red on the inside
>>44445261
>>44445354
Youz a git if youz aint green on da inside
The in-lore explanation is that they came out of the Heresy with the least amount of damage and most Marines left, in large part because they were so much larger than everyone else before the Heresy. It's hinted they absorbed the forces of the 2 missing legions as a way to do this.
The IRL explanation is they're the vanilla setting of the most popular army so GW puts them on a pedestal. The Ward days solidified the modern Smurf image, despite BL trying its hardest to make them more complex and less mary sueish characters
>>44446250
>The in-lore explanation is that they came out of the Heresy with the least amount of damage and most Marines left
But they were superior before the Heresy too.
>>44446294
Not by the current margine. The Sons of Horus, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Iron Hands all had as impressive of records as they did. Hell even the Word Bearers post-scolding.
>>44446421
>all had as impressive of records as they did.
Not true, Ultramarines had won the most worlds and their worlds were productive to boot.
>>44446513
Sons of Horus were top
Ultras integrated the second most I think?
Dark angels would have been second but they spent a third of there marines on saving the entire imperium
>>44446250
>It's hinted they absorbed the forces of the 2 missing legions as a way to do this.
Author confirmed this was just an in universe rumor.
>The Ward days solidified the modern Smurf image
Ultras were always the best example of a Chapter, Ward isn't to blame.
>>44446513
>>44446421
>>44446294
>mfw this will devolve into people arguing semantics in sentences describing Ultras yet again
>>44446766
>Ultras integrated the second most I think?
Nope, the most.
>>44446864
Got mixed up, the SoH had the most 'Victories', then the dark angels
Integrating world's was the Ultramarine thing so that isn't suprising
culture that values learning
>>44443452
>meme crunch
Wow just take a break from 4chan.
>>44443007
Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, of course!
>>44448151
>As the Imperium slowly decays around them, it is the Ultramarines that lead the fight and refuse to let Mankind's enemies win.
Based.
>>44445142
>what is betrayal at calth for 500?
>>44445071
logan got one, I really hope calgar get one too
>>44443007
Eh theyre pretty boring and one dimensional. It's cool that you're very sensitive to marketing and easily manipulated though, we won't judge you.Because you are a consumer drone, but you are likely far too stupid to ever be able to recognize it.
>>44443732
>>44443848
>I love these make believe soldiers so much, I will blame their mistakes on someone else
>I am a sad and lonely faggot
>>44448924
Sorry, but I just know the story.
>>44443594
I never got the pure geneseed bit. The White Scars, Iron Hands, and Dark Angels all have very pure gene-seed without any missing organs or mutated ones.
Why not make a shitton of chapters with those? The Iron Hands and Dark Angels are versatile enough, and the White Scars are great warriors in their own right.
>>44443007
Dey'ze blue so Dey're dead lucky ya Grot.
>>44449010
>I never got the pure geneseed bit. The White Scars, Iron Hands, and Dark Angels all have very pure gene-seed without any missing organs or mutated ones.
Does not necessarily mean they are so pure.
>Why not make a shitton of chapters with those?
Why bother when the Ultramarine stock is superior?
>>44448811
Way to enlighten the sheeple neo
>>44449050
Why wouldn't they be pure? And if they've got just as good gene-seed as the Ultramarines, why not make chapters with them?
>>44448811
>>44449053
Well, quads and double dubs suggests he just might be Neo, and that his summation of OP is correct.
>>44449086
>Why wouldn't they be pure?
Degradation due to replication and the like.
>And if they've got just as good gene-seed as the Ultramarines, why not make chapters with them?
Ultramarine gene-seed has obviously proven more effective.
>>44449134
>>44449086
>>44449050
Retards, it's not about who has the purest, it's about politics. They use ultramarine stock because they are the biggest, have the most descendants, and the most clout. Vice versa, by using ultramarine stock it further in depth the Ultramarines to other factions and their benefactors. It's a mutual arrangement that has been going strong since Guilliman put forth the reforms.
On a genetic level yes those other chapters are stable however they do not play the same game nor to the same tune that the Ultramarines do. The Dark Angels and White Scars especially.
It should not surprise you that the Ultramarines are the best because of politics and economics. And now thanks to how many loyal successors they have their numbers are probably much greater than what they were during the Heresy.
>>44449098
>are you saying I can get dubs?
>I'm saying, when the time comes you won't have to
>>44448151
>Ultramarines are the best at everything and can do no wrong!
Who ever decided to let our spiritual liege write anyway?
>>44449487
>>44449512
I fucking love it here sometimes.
>>44449380
>Do not try and get a get, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there are no gets. Then you will see it is not the dubs you get. Its the dubs that get you.
Does this make the Alpha Legion the top tier force in the galaxy seeing as they are the only ones who ever defeated the Ultramarines forced them to retreat and give up even with their primarch leading them ?
>>44450128
That was just Alpha Legion misinformation.
>>44450128
>>44450154
All memes aside the Alpha Legions are definitely one of the top tier legions if not the best legion though best is debatable how do we measure best ? if the Ultramarines are the best legion the loyalists have and the Alpha Legion beat them but the Ultramarines beat all the other legions they faced i guess that makes the Alpha Legion 1st and the Ultramarines 2nd
>>44443007
>>44450128
>Does this make the Alpha Legion the top tier force in the galaxy
Alpha memes resort to underhanded methods to leverage their advantages, and they still lose to joke forces like the dark eldar.
>>44450384
They beat the Ultras with Guilliman helping them in an even battle
>>44443007
Come back when you can actually rip & tear, and you aren't slow as fuck.
>>44450444
If you're going by the in-universe suspected information, the alpha legion lost that battle.
>>44450479
No they one the battle and forced the Ultramarines to retreat but in turn lost their primarch or so people believe
>>44450565
>or so people believe
they explicitly mention that the information isn't trustworthy
>>44445261
Actually, no. They're dust inside, thanks to Ahriman's Rubric.
>>44450468
Did chaplains used to wear silver armor? Badass as fuck.
>>44450785
>Did chaplains used to wear silver armor?
White Armour.
And no, not generally.
>>44449328
This guy gets it.
>>44449086
Because the rest of the Imperium has trust issues with the Dark Angels, Iron Hands are in too deep with the Mechanicus, and no one remembers the White Scars.
>>44450785
Partial-to-full black armour was always their thing, along with the skull motif.
>Skull-shaped groin-guards are also not unknown.
In addition, each Chaplain would have at least one relic from one of his Chapter's Primarchs.
>>44450234
Just because paper beats rock, doesn't mean it has shit of a chance against scissors. I love the Alpha Legion as much as the next Alpharius, but there are many other Legions that would punch their lights out.
>>44443356
Dark Angels have purer gene seed and are actually more loyal post the Luther Heresy.
There's even a whole color named after them.
>>44451983
>Dark Angels have purer gene seed and are actually more loyal post the Luther Heresy.
Prove it.
>>44452058
Disregard that wanker. DA geneseed is basically identical to Ultramarines.
They're probably equal on faith too.
Problem is, DA have a lot on the line if their faith and trustworthiness is tested, so they HAVE to be the most faithful. Outwardly, at least.
>>44452301
Hard to look loyal when you have a habit of just abandoning allies while on campaign, especially at crucial times that can mean the loss of a whole world or system.
>>44453782
To be fair, perceived loyalty means nothing. Loyal is loyal. Cypher may be loyal as fuck for all we know.
The real issue here is that DA aren't that loyal. That's why they're called the Unforgiven to begin with. It's the same reason Repentia don't get to be on the same level as normal Sisters, and why the DA never forgive any CSM they torture into repenting.
DA are oermanently marred by disloyalty and betrayal, even if it's secret.
>>44452301
The DA geneseed is about equally pure, true.
The problem of loyalty is that the Dark Angels have more loyalty to the Emperor than the Imperium, willing to work outside the law and against the will of their allies for what they feel is just. It's the same idea that the Horus Heresy writers have included (I feel rather crudely) in the HH series, using the Lion himself.
The Ultramarines are far more willing to work with the Imperium, and because they've had such a hand in making sure it keeps running since they beginning, that usually goes along with what they want - remember how they helped pick the High Lords of Terra after a period of anarchy?
>>44454665
They're the Unforgiven because they feel they have to earn their forgiveness - that's what separates them from renegades that decide to completely go against the Emperor's will and turn from His light. They don't ever make an attempt forgive the heretic, only give them a chance to repent (through torture if need be) and save their eternal soul from damnation.
It may not look loyalist, but you can explain it a loyalist way just as much as a heretical way. There's really no way to say either way.
>>44455124
If they were as loyal as you try to claim they wouldn't need to be forgiven for anything. It's QED, dumbass. They're not loyal, that's why they want forgiveness.
>>44455144
You're looking at it too narrowly. If they're really not loyal, why are they trying so hard to be forgiven? I wouldn't call a person who comes into a church claiming to be a sinner and begging to be forgiven someone who wasn't loyal.
>>44455269
Someone who is loyal to try to atone for a lapse in loyalty is always less preferable to someone who has never lapsed at all.
Trying to compare 40k to Christianity shows how hard you fail. The 41st millennium is hardly that forgiving. One of the quotes plastered on every rulebook page and video game loading screen is paraphrased to "a single lapse in judgment spawns a lifetime of heresy" or similar shit.
>>44455306
A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy - ironically, one of the Dark Angel's battlecries according to the 40k wikia.
The really interesting thing is, the Dark Angels have never actually been sinners. The incident with the Black Templar ship can easily be blamed on the Fallen, or the ship getting lost in the warp, since the Dark Angels left before anything happened to the Templars. Otherwise, what have they really done that's heretical? None of the Fallen have actually joined their ranks, and none of the Dark Angels who remained loyal actually joined up with Luther - their self-perceived sin is that they allowed such heretics to exist. They keep secrets, but so do many chapters. They usually just refuse to allow others to join in a fight if a Fallen is around, and only the Angels of Redemption have been so focused on the hunt to abandon allies in their hour of need. They even end up hunting down many dangerous heretics that the ponderous Imperial government may only notice centuries later.
And on another note, we might as well argue that what the Dark Angels do isn't that bad. The Iron Hands massacred a third of a sector for perceived weakness and heresy. The Flesh Tearers have turned on their allies multiple times under the influence of the Black Rage. The Warbringers brought war to a peaceful world for the sake of an artifact that could have been gotten by means that wouldn't have endangered innocent civilians and others not involved with a heretical relic.
>>44452058
>>44452301
Yes they do. Dark Angels to our knowledge have NO gene seed flaws in any of their successors.
As for traitors, the Ultramarines make up the majority of the modern Chapters who turn to Chaos by simple numbers. Meanwhile the only traitors we know of who have fallen from the First Legion since the Luther Heresy was a handful of guys from the Consecrators Chapter. And unlike the Ultramarines, the Dark Angels hypnotically program all of their Astartes with commands to freeze them and force them to wipe their memory. This way the Interrogator Chaplains can speak a secret phrase and root the disobeying Dark Angel to the floor, wipe their memory, and replace the wiped events with some invented fantasy.
>>44455715
All Chapters are different, but the "purest" Chapters in this respect are the Grey Knights, the Ultramarines, and the Dark Angels, who have maintained a large enough supply of stable gene-seed to develop all 19 fully functioning Astartes organ implants. It is for this reason that the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels have more Successor Chapters than any of the other First Founding Chapters.
Going traitor has nothing to do with geneseed.
>>44455771
I'm talking about mutations. IIRC one of the cursed founding Chapters were Ultramarines, whereas no gene flaw at all is known of in any Dark Angel successor.
And no, the Dark Angels don't have many successor Chapters at all, as most of them were formed immediately in the Second Founding. The High Lords know they can't depend upon the Dark Angels as a reliable ally in a battle, so they only create new Dark Angels once in a blue moon.
The second most numerous Chapter is the Imperial Fists.
>>44455827
Fire Hawks claim to be Ultramarine. There is no source anywhere saying DA are purer than UM.
Of course the Fire Hawks claim to be UM. If they weren't, they'd want to claim the most pure chapter and DA are out since Fire Hawks aren't Unforgiven. UM are big on successor relations, so you'd think they'd acknowledge it instead of denying it if it were true.
Post a single source stating DA are purer than UM.
>>44455917
Looking at the Lexicanum, the Fire Hawks were confirmed Ultramarines.
>>44455715
There's a chapter called the Death Shadows that took part in the Abbysal Crusade that seem pretty suspect. I mean, before they turned they were called the Lionguard, and they wear robes over their armor.
>>44455975
Unlikely, the Dark Angel codices would probably make mention of them considering that the Dark Angels still operate loosely as a Legion, with Azrael holding the position of Supreme Grand Master.
However they could have been spawned by Fallen hijinks. Astelan already tried to make his own legion of fallen dark angels, I wouldn't put it past them for another Fallen Captain to have successfully forged a Dark Angels successor chapter under the nose of the Adeptus Terra.
>>44444029
Under modern international law, you should.
>>44455973
Well Lexicanum is WRONG FAGGOT
Haha, double whammy for the faggots who whine about 40k being filled with fanfic while Lexicanum shit is also wrong DESPITE citations AND has less content.
>>44446250
who ever made this needs to rewrite that Putin/Lion was not killed but fully healed and kept in coma until time of great need.
Regan/Roboute is actually held in stasis at the moment of his death.
>>44456203
Lexicanum might be wrong from time to time on the smal details but warhamm40K is atrociously wrong in some pages.
>>44456110
I wouldn't be surprised if a chapter slipped through the cracks. There's some evidence the Star Phantoms might be DA successors, even if both chapters deny any relation.
Still, it'd be hilarious if they went loyalist, only to be forced into a crusade that wouldn't really allow them to come back unscathed if they wanted to.
>>44455306
All chapters are heretical then because theyve all had traitors save the grey knights because theyve never had a marine turn traitor but have done some fairly heretical shit aside from that. Basically every organization in the imperium has secrets too: to name a few examples are forgeworlds are secretive about their stcs, deathwatch has apparently 'equally damning secrests' that the unforgiven has, grey knights have secrets and mind scrub for them. All these organizations are willing to/have kill/killed I'm sure to protect their secrets. Dark Angels are flawed with heresy, and secrecy the same goes for literally every other imperium organization is. Because of this, Dark angels are just as fine of shitnuggets as the rest of the imperium of man is dude.
>>44443007
>Is it superior genetics? Is it superior training or culture?
Nope.
>>44451504
>Skull-shaped groin-guards
I can think of at least one chaplain with a skull crotch.
Shame I can't find a decent image of him.
>>44459417
Is that a heresy-era Dark Angel, or one of the Lions Sable?
>>44459642
It's Lion.
>>44443007
No. They are not even the best. They may be the top best, but not THE BEST.
And don't give me Matt Ward shit here. They may have a lot of successors, they may have the realm of Ultramar, but in the win-to-lose ratio they have is only second best.
Also poor Roboute would be enraged that they see the Codex Astartes he wrote as some absolute dogma to be followed. At least they got better after the 1st Tyrannic War and creation of the Tyranid Hunters.
>>44443594
Since Calgar is basically a head and half a torso, in theory could they build him a super huge power suit and plug him into it? Like, Primarch-tier hugeness?
>>44461526
Like a Centurion-sized super suit that would augment his already impressive combat skills to the levels of Abaddon if not to the levels of pre-Heresy Horus?
>>44461628
Nah, bigger. Like, a Dreadnought-sized Calgar running around throwing tanks and shit.
They are only better because our Spiritual Liege (MW) said so.
>>44443007
Since the Ultramarines are generalists and don't focus on any single combat doctrine, they tend to be able to handle most situations, whereas other chapters might struggle against certain army compositions. White Scars might not be good against tanks and heavy armor, Raven Guard aren't good against swarms, etc.
That's not to say the Ultramarines are good in every situation though. Most Ultras follow the codex rigously, and thus struggle against tactically adaptive foes like the Tyranids or the Tau. But 9/10 the Ultramarines are exactly what you want.
>>44461755
>They are only better because our Spiritual Liege (MW) said so.
Despite the OG Codex Ultramarines saying so?
That Ward became a meme only demonstrates how disconnected 40k players are from it's roots.
>>44460520
>They are not even the best
Then who are the best?
Who are more willing to work for the Imperium's causes, operate well in all theaters against all foes, subborn themselves to other authority if they are better in the theater then they are?
No one, actually.
I just want to enjoy my vanilla, jack-of-all trades space romans. But no, you have to go and be a showboating faggot about it and pretend as if warhammer doesn't like to play fast and loose with canon. Which annoyed me, up until I realized that if the canon lore weren't so cavalier, thered be even more faggots like you with TOTES UNDENIABLE, UNARGUABLE SUPER-TRUTH about how your pet faction/sect is THE BEST. Which just completely, slaanesh-tier fucks the spirit of the lore, which places pretty much every group involved at the edge of victory and/or complete annihilation.
Captain Titus would be disappointed in you, anon.
>>44449010
The High Lords don't trust the Dark Angels, so they keep getting skipped at new Foundings, and the Iron Hands spent so long trying to rebuild after Istvaan that they never had the gene-seed stocks to have a bunch of successors. Not sure if there's a specific reason for the Scars; it's probably just a numbers thing: the Ultras had more men, meaning more Second Founding Chapters, meaning more Ultra geneseed is sent to the Adeptus Terra in the tithes, so more of it gets chosen for subsequent Founding, and it snowballs from there.
>>44461526
Yeah, maybe that would make him feel up to actually fighting again.
>>44461988
The ones who don't treat the Codex as a replacement for brains but actually manage combine the Codex with their own brains and adapt them to the constantly changing battlefield. Like Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists...or Blood Angels and Dark Angels.And Captain Titus.
Space Wolves don't count since they, apart of some interesting tactics they cherry-picked, don't follow the Codex at all.I still like the Space Jiffs.
>>44461697
Fair enough.
>>44462674
>Imperial Fists
Known for being too stubborn to know when a battle is lost, incurring far too many casualties.
>Crimson Fists
Who had the same problems, on top of being Inquisition lap dogs.
>Blood Angels
Outright crippling geneseed problems, tendencies to rush into battle and replace ferocity with sound planning.
>Dark Angels
Do I need to even list their problems?
Even your bs Codex line doesn't even come up until 9000 years after it was written, against a single foe that NO ONE had encountered prior and won against, period. Until Maccrage, Behemoth was virtually unstoppable to all Imperial forces. The single time the Codex Astartes failed, it's users wrote a new page, added it to the book, then won at cost.
Your bleats mean little in the face of what actually is, and every chapter you listed fails at what I said in >>44461988, being either too arrogant, too specialized, have crippling weakness, or are mistrusted for entirely valid reasons.
>>44445268
>laying it down with discipline
>charging their roaring foe
>pounding them into submission with their heavy weapons
>>44462776
>>44462769
> Known for being too stubborn to know when a battle is lost, incurring far too many casualties.
Still don't use the Codex as a replacement for brains.
> Who had the same problems, on top of being Inquisition lap dogs.
Lie. The first Crimson Blades were THE most levelheaded dudes in the IF Legion, therefore they were closer to the Ultramarines in these regards. The part with the Marines Vigilant was something even Pedro Kantor admitted as a distasteful thing in the Chapter's History.
> Outright crippling geneseed problems, tendencies to rush into battle and replace ferocity with sound planning.
Still doesn't stop them from being badass and capable of achieving victory. Also what Primarch other than Sanguinius has a official holiday named after him?
> Do I need to even list their problems?
When they are not going full disappear a person because there is a 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance they know about the Fallen, then they are pretty darn competent and efficient.
Also the Ultras managed to just hold the line when Behemoth waltzed in for the Imperial reinforcements to back them up...but also it was the one event when Calgar realized the Ultramarines went full smug due to thinking that if they followed the Codex to the letter, then nobody would've defeated them.
Behemoth not only proved that following the Codex without thinking it out, but made the Ultramarines undergo character development...which is then thrown away through the window because Matt Ward said so. Good thing later Codexes de-Mary Suefied them.
>>44462674
The Ultramarines are basically never shown as using the Codex as a replacement for brains. The only example that springs readily to mind is Leandros, and he was an inexperienced Marine who got into the command squad basically by luck.
The Red Scorpions, though - those are the ones.
>>44462981
>Still don't use the Codex as a replacement for brains.
>goes full retard, but it's not because of the single most effective treatise on combat ever written by human hands, so it's ok
Stop that.
>The part with the Marines Vigilant was something even Pedro Kantor admitted as a distasteful thing in the Chapter's History
Still hadn't stopped them from responding to the Inquisition enough times for even their parent chapter to look askew at them.
>Still doesn't stop them from being badass and capable of achieving victory
While being a doomed chapter with secrets it hides from the rest of the Imperium and high casualties to boot. No one said these other chapters couldn't get the work done, just not as well in as many varied theaters.
>they are pretty darn competent and efficient
Also arrogant to a goddamn tee, unwilling to work alongside with other Imperial forces and as likely to abandon objectives for their own purposes as the goddamn Admech. This is not a good thing.
>thinking that if they followed the Codex to the letter, then nobody would've defeated them
Like I said, in 9000 years, there was a single time the Codex didn't offer insight to a battle, and when it did, the Codex was expanded, new tactics used, and the battle won. Chernobyl didn't stop the world from using nuclear reactors, it made people figure out how to do it better, and stop acting like because the Ultramarines couldn't win the entire day singlehandedly, it's a mark against the Codex. The Codex expounds on using cohesive forces to gain victory, and that is why the Ultramarines can and do work with the whole of the Imperium, honoring them for their courage when it is present.
>hich is then thrown away through the window because Matt Ward said so
>I never read Codex Ultramarines, so I am right
scribd.com/doc/232787825/Warhammer-40k-Codex-Ultramarines-1993-2nd-Edition#scribd
Get to reading.
>>44462915
>rearguard was brutalized
o-oh my
>>44443452
>"When everyone has supperpowers..."
>"nobody will be potato."
>>44463100
>arrogant to a goddamn tee
So sayeth the anon defending Cato Sicarius' Chapter. And that's in addition to being wrong. The DA are pretty humble, as marines go. Pride is how Luther fell. They're not having that again.
>unwilling to work alongside othe Imperial forces
Colonel Strike would tell you otherwise. If the Grey Knights hadn't mind wiped him, that is.
>likely to abandon objectives for their own purposes
...granted. But for the times they've vanished without explanation, there have been time where the arrived without explanation and won campaigns that had held up other Imperial forces for far too long with no sign of ending. Like the AdMech, you have to take the bad with the good. And successfully prosecuting two simultaneous and competing wars is undeniably impressive. As could be said for the Blood Angels, who are well regarded despite near crippling flaws.
As an aside, how do you go from "these guys are bad because Inquisitorial lapdogs" for helping another organization to "these othrr guys are bad because uncooperative" because they'd rather work alone in the same post? And if that makes sense to you, I must ask which is worse.
>>44447695
it says meme crunch right in the pic >>44443262
>>44463100
The line marines of the DA are actually pretty average marines, since they don't know about their secret and all. They've worked together with other Imperial forces in the lore - Ezekiel lost his eye while fighting alongside Vostroyans, Mordians, and Skitarii.
You could look at their unwillingness to work with allies as a good thing - showing how they can be a strong, independent force even millenia down the line instead of relying on aid.
