Useful links now here: http://pastebin.com/JtFH682q
Link for the Trove: https://mega.co.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg
Question of the day: Should all PC types be made equally worthwhile?
>>44403270
>Should all PC types be made equally worthwhile?
I'm not sure what you mean by "worthwhile" exactly, but yes, at least roughly speaking.
>>44403517
>>44403270
Going with this, what kind of doomkoff would say otherwise.
So I made this pdf here featuring all my homebrew rules for OSR style games; it uses 5 basic classes instead of the usual 4 and has some streamlined rules for combat and equipment.
Please tell me what you think. I also plan on running a game with this system soon when I get more free time.
>>44403270
Does anyone have a scanned copy of Castle Zagyg II: The Upper Works?
It's honestly the hardest thing to find, anywhere since Gygax is dead and they stopped printing them. Used/New on ebay are 400/1000 dollars.
>>44403580
Why the heck would you rather be a kobold than a human? This is like the other guy which had halflings be harder to get than humans. What's the point?
However, I will say that this sounds like a bit more flavorful than your usual OSR stuff without being out of genre.
>>44403615
Sorry here's the picture
>>44403580
No offense, but I'm not very convinced by OSRs that substitute turn undead for turn xyz; the chars that have turn undead tend to be marginal overall compared to their closer analogs, and turn undead tends to serve a VERY useful purpose because undead tend to be among the most unpleasant foes to engage in melee.
Animals, constructs, and "cowards and weaklings" really aren't prevalent things you'll want to GTFO nearly as much... I will say that if one considers snakes, centipedes, spiders, etc. (which all combined to kill a significant amount of OSR PCs) I suppose animal types may be useful, but the others sound really mehish.
>>44403620
You are right, I should have doubled checked their balance. Each one has kind of an interesting ability but Slave cast kobolds are kind of trash.
While game balance isn't my absolute goal I would like them to be more viable. Kobolds are smaller which give a bonus to AC and reduce your rations and stuff too, but that is more of an in universe thing.
I appreciate the feedback.
>>44403659
Its not even just balance on my end either, its more that it seems more intuitive if the higher rolls enable more fancy races and lower rolls enable more humble races.
Also you may wish to consider making goblins not quite as garbagetastic, 2d8 all around with 3d6 dex would still give them the feel of high levels of crappiness while 'only' amounting to a -1 to 5 stats.
>>44403657
I do agree with your point, especially the first one because are meant to be awful, but the purposes of making the Cleric's turning ability like that are two fold;
Clerics feel too similar even if they follow the same God. Having something very unique they can turn makes them more interesting.
The second is because, using this system, you can fit the class role into a larger number of campaigns. If you play a Cleric and are doing a wilderness hexcrawl, your opportunites to turn undead are limited. If you are playing a game where the players are looting and pillaging a huge city (which is actually a module I want to write at some point), turning undead is not very useful. When you create a specalist or mage you and the DM can kind of steer the character towards something more suited to the campaign but clerics? Not so much.
Hence the 'Militants' are now much more religiously focused against their foe. I'm surprised nobody brought up how little fighting ability they are supposed to have, besides their decent HP, which is something I should really keep in mind for the future.
>>44403753
>If you play a Cleric and are doing a wilderness hexcrawl, your opportunites to turn undead are limited.
>pillaging a city
Is that so? I never noticed a shortage of undead in those situations. Centipedes etc. are actually a fairly decent choice for anti animal stuff in conventional campaigns, so I retract the idea that anti animal stuff is not good.
Not sure what edition we're talking about but I know that in 1e and the "implied OD&D setting" document undead are a decent sized portion of city encounters.
What is one supposed to do about constructs & "cowards?"
>>44403800
>Is that so? I never noticed a shortage of undead in those situations.
Well yeah, the DM can easily insert these things in where they please but I tend to make scenarios with strong themes and try to make a bit of logical sense. Undead in a city would not be very common outside of a few minor encounters; either because the noble keeps his vampire wife locked up in his vault that you are raiding or maybe freshly made ghouls are feasting on the city inhabitant's corpses or something, which is fine. Obviously the DM's loving hand must sprinkle in opportunities for the cleric of any type to be useful in turning, as he must add in locked doors for the rogue to pick and magical puzzles to be solved by the Wizard. That's part of the game's contract between player and GM.
As for constructs and 'cowards' I agree they are more specific situations, but imagine a dungeon where there are many types of constructs. Golems are one, but what about intelligent walls that can move? Floating orb sentries that absorb your spells? Wooden prisms that try to bind your hands in them? There are many ways to add in meaningful constructs to a game world and to a dungeon for them to be useful.
Cowards and weaklings is a bit less specific but moderately more useful; you can probably assume most bandit or enemy parties will have at least 1 or 2 cowards among them, which can be turned by the Cleric. Maybe you come across a small military band that broke off from a main army who are all deserters, maybe these count. Maybe its just like a fear spell instead.
If you are looking for theological reasons then yes; this still works well because Clerics of a chaotic religion would be opposed to super structured constructs and a Priest of a War god would naturally despise cowards.Also I don't know why you thought i was ever using a standard setting when the PDF itself stated that the setting is unique and the races/classes are completely abnormal.
>>44403865
>but I tend to make scenarios with strong themes and try to make a bit of logical sense.
I'm just talking about encounter charts, I can't really speak about what kind of monster is where in everyone's personal campaign.
>Also I don't know why you thought i was ever using a standard setting when the PDF itself stated that the setting is unique and the races/classes are completely abnormal.
I'm not sure why you think I thought you were using a standard setting.
>>44403725
>Its not even just balance on my end either, its more that it seems more intuitive if the higher rolls enable more fancy races and lower rolls enable more humble races.
That's true, but in my defense kobolds are *supposed* to be a little more rare and fantastic then humans, they just aren't super good yet. I'll have to think of a new mechanic to give them, maybe something like eating magical items for experience, or blanket spell/magic resist and bonus to relevant saving throws? They get a bonus to helping someone with a more commanding personality then they? Hard to say exactly..
>Also you may wish to consider making goblins not quite as garbagetastic
Sorry mate, goblins are meant to be hard mode. Personally I just really like the spread on 2d6 because that means that the best of the best goblins in the world are only as good as a mildly talented human in that area.
>>44403888
>I'm just talking about encounter charts, I can't really speak about what kind of monster is where in everyone's personal campaign.
Ah.
>I'm not sure why you think I thought you were using a standard setting.
>I've never noticed a shortage of undead in those situations
>Centipedes etc. are actually a fairly decent choice for anti animal stuff in conventional campaigns
>Not sure what edition we're talking about but I know that in 1e and the "implied OD&D setting" document undead are a decent sized portion of city encounters.
I thought that was the root of the argument? Can you still say there is anything wrong with a religious character being able to rebuke a class of monster relating to his faith when that class of monster can be suited or shifted to serve the campaign world and dungeon master?
Personally the idea stemmed from the fact that, when reading D&D's stuff about how evil cleric take control of undead and make them cower in awe instead was really cool. So I took it a logical step further.
>>44403580
Seems really complicated and fiddly. Others may differ, but I would feel misled if I was invited to play an "OSR" game and the DM gave me that house rule document.
>>44403920
>Can you still say there is anything wrong with a religious character being able to rebuke a class of monster relating to his faith when that class of monster can be suited or shifted to serve the campaign world and dungeon master?
As we've already covered, animals are perfectly fine, in retrospect.
As far as shifting to serve the campaign world and dungeon master, the main problem is that while undead are, for the most part, an incredibly hazardous and toxic class of undead, along with a lot of low ranking but instantly lethal animals, its not really clear that being strong against weaklings and cowards is on a similar level, nor the largely homebrew class of constructs, which players can't really form a decision on how dangerous they are.
Perhaps something to let allies hurt constructs regardless of weapon +, and something to protect allies against surprise, backstab, and poison attacks by humanoids?
>>44403941
yeah, strikes me as more of just a rules light document loosely inspired by D&D
>>44403941
>>44404625
You're arguing over semantics. It is what it is, regardless of labeling. Besides, he even said "OSR style", which can be a bit broader than straight up "OSR". Like how buttery flavored seasoning oil isn't the same thing as butter.
>>44405000
>You're arguing over semantics.
I'm not arguing semantics. Its d20, not sure if I'd call it OSR. Like that guy, I'd probably be disappointed to be invited to an OSR game and find out we were using that documented. "OSR style" is probably reasonable, though.
How do you guys do time tracking? Do you assign the duties to a player or do you do it yourself and if yes, how?
Christ. I got the urge to look at some old school stuff again, wound up on odd74. I remembered they had a hidden forum (not that anyone here would need it, with the trove and all) but couldn't remember where, or where the link was. Ended up going through the forums number by number until I found it.it's 63
Anyway, I'm being gifted a Midori Traveller's Notebook tomorrow. It's basically a leather cover you can stick multiple notebooks and inserts in, but it has a slightly odd paper size - 11cmx21cm pages, or 22cmx21cm folded in half to make a booklet. Think A5 format but 2cm thinner. I'm going to see how much nerd shit I can cram into it, starting with OGRE Pocket Edition's rulebook.
I've got a bunch of small-format hex and squared paper I can use as the basis for a dungeon/overworld workbook, so I might sketch out a little minisetting with a couple of dungeons. I've also got some nifty BD&D quick references that'll fit nicely.
I'm going to do some fiddling to condense the Classic Traveller book 2 ship design rules and some relevant extra references - that's totally old school, especially without High Guard!
Any suggestions for more stuff that might be handy?
>>44403270
>Question of the day: Should all PC types be made equally worthwhile?
Yes. This can most easily be achievedby playing B/X,banning the fucking Thief, and ignoring people who assume D&D should have 20 levels.
>>44403270
Previous thread: >>44339901
>>44406979
>>44406979
STRICT TIME RECORDS MUST BE KEPT.
I've seen a rotating thing with various lengths of segment, so you could put a torch marker X hours ahead and a "you guys need to rest" Y turns in the future, for rulesets where you have to take a break one exploration turn out of six. You could track food and stuff on it as well, I think. It works pretty well because everything (including the time of the next wandering monster check) is visible and clear to ensure players are appropriately stressed, while being easy to manage.
>>44407476
Ah, it's the Basic Turn Tracker from Lee's Lists. Also good for spell durations and potions and so on.
>>44406979
When I'm being serious (and let's be honest, not all games are run in serious mode), I combine my time tracking with my campaign journal. Days go in a notebook and I'll drop notes ahead of myself for events that the PCs have triggered.
Turns normally go on scrap paper, just because an expedition might be of variable length. (I suppose I could get ultra-organised and have a notebook for each adventure site.) Typically a turn needs no more than a line with "head south from 12" or "fight orcs" on it, so it's hardly more work than ticking off a checkbox.
Standard random encounters are a good check to make ahead of time and add to the turn track, with added benefits to the dice rolling fog of war.
>>44407476
That sounds cool. Nice way to put the game mechanics really up front.
What are some good one-page dungeons like this one?
This one isn't anything amazing, but I really like how it's laid out. A lot of them just have a box of text on each side.
>>44409046
that really looks fucking great. kicks starts your brain immediately
>>44409046
that's a pretty cleverly disguised 5-room dungeon
>>44409046
The One Page Dungeon competitions usually have a few entries that really stand out like that, might be worth going through them?
>>44409948
I've had a flick through, the winners usually seem to be weird fantasy or science fiction or some other niche. Plus I really like how this specific one is laid out, reminds me of those cartoon "walkthroughs" by that one guy.
>>44409811
Good point, I didn't even notice.
>>44403993
True, but I think it more comes down to how the GM lays out the game.
>>44403941
>>44405100
Creator here, personally I don't get this. It is a lot more intuitive with how I laid it out then having tables upon tables or SEPARATE FUCKING TABLES for saving throws that old school has. There are less numbers thrown around, and while it is true the classes are more complicated I did that on purpose so that each class would feel different and interesting. Having warriors be bone stupid simple and wizards the most complicated is annoying to me, so giving each class a few semi-complex mechanics brings them all on the same level.
It's not the absolute simplest game out there but its rulebook is much shorter then any of the retroclones.
Somewhat relatedly, what are some good tips to disguise a five-room dungeon? Or do players even notice/care?
>>44410583
It's rare for players to even know about 5 room dungeons, or to even recognize them if they do.
They'll only notice if they're DMs who love 5 room dungeons or if you use them literally all the time.
>>44410334
>Creator here, personally I don't get this.
Well, that's one reason to air your ideas on /tg/ - you get other points of view.
> It is a lot more intuitive with how I laid it out then having tables upon tables or SEPARATE FUCKING TABLES for saving throws that old school has.
This is more of a statement of taste. Personally, I don't mind tables in RPGs (they're a useful way of presenting information). More importantly, the tables in OSR games typically show the improvements a character makes when they gain levels. Reading through your document, I struggled to find many gains from leveling up.
>There are less numbers thrown around
I wasn't left with that impression. You've got a lot of "if you roll this, then this happens" clauses while the ability scores are (from what's written) overwhelmingly important and seem to be referenced at every step of the game.
>while it is true the classes are more complicated I did that on purpose so that each class would feel different and interesting.
Again, this is taste. My experience that a player who goes to the character class hoping to find something interesting is not likely to make an interesting character.
>its rulebook is much shorter then any of the retroclones.
That's mainly because you don't have monster or spell descriptions. In addition, most retroclones have examples of play and spend extra column inches making the rules clear - something you don't bother with. For example, your rules for the "hit" mechanic don't specify what result is a success and don't explain what happens on a success. The same sort of incompleteness pervades the document. I had previously assumed that the rules assume some other (complete) rule set as a baseline, but what you're saying now calls that into question. Are these rules meant to be complete?
>>44410583
I keep making them by accident, so I don't even notice. I doubt most players do.
What version of B/X should I read?
I got two different versions here and don't know what the differences are.
>>44411254
Moldvay's magenta rules are probably best if you have rpg history and just want a nice concise statement of the rules.
Mentzer's red box is better for learning the game. (Arguably, it's still the best learn-to-play product ever made for an RPG.)
So any opinions on my homebrew rules system?
I'm worried it may have strayed way too far from being d&d. It's got some d20 influence and it's a classeless system. Thing is that I feel like 90% of the concepts are things d&d players are familiar with.
For monsters, I've found that using basic and LoTFP monsters are easy enough I can convert them on the fly and have the math work out.
The rules document is pretty messy since this is more designed for me to put down WIP rules and use as a reference when I'm running games.
>>44411606
shit, forgot link.
http://pastebin.com/XYt6KhDY
>>44410903
>Reading through your document, I struggled to find many gains from leveling up.
That's true, and that's partially intentional. There is some growth, but I imagine a lot more of the growth will just come from RP based rewards and the gear you get, political connections, and so forth. Personally I don't want the characters to get too powerful on their own because it takes away some the grounded realism with the game.
Bastards get increased ability to-hit and bonus health every level, plus techniques.
Militants gain a bonus to their 'faith' every certain number of levels; making both their turning and healing die bigger. Plus they get more miracles.
Crooks get improved skills, more skills, and improved focus dice as they level.
Debasers get increased mana as they level (though they still have to go and get their own spells and stuff)
Cultists are one of the more random, but they start piling on bonus abilities every other time they level and making them stronger, plus their healing improves quite a lot too.
Gentler powercurve? Definitely.
>ability scores overwhelmingly important
Yes, they are such a core part of a character and are used really rarely in other games. These ability score bonuses from classes and stuff give you bonus points for focusing in something; now a Intelligent or Wise Fighter can be a build, just as an Intelligent Militant plays different from a Charismatic one.
I'm not trying to be combative either, just sharing the design and justifying it.
>>44411644
>I'm not trying to be combative either, just sharing the design and justifying it.
I get that. But the design isn't really OSR - it's basically a ruleslite D20 - so you'd probably be better off discussing it in other threads. (That's not a "go away", but a "you might find more help over there".)
One point that does strike me is that your character generation method doesn't really meet up with your design. Successful mainstream games generally have more random ability generation when abilities don't matter much (e.g. 0D&D, B/X), moving through controlled randomness as modifiers become more important (e.g. AD&D) and on to point buy as they become more significant (e.g. D&D 3.X/PF) or fundamental (e.g. Storyteller) to the game. To my eyes, your design is somewhere between 3.X/PF and Storyteller for ability significance.
>>44411606
Not being like D&D is not a problem, but this may not be the best place to attract feedback on your system.
>>44411908
>But the design isn't really OSR
Except it IS OSR. You get experience for diving into dungeons and spending gold.
>you'd probably be better off discussing it in other threads.
You don't get to decide that.
>>44411908
Ah true. I'd think I'd get better feedback on most of the system from d&d fans though.
The thing is that the character creation and rolling looks different from d&d but 90% of the system is inspired by or lifted from various retroclones. Like the main rolling method is a modified thaco system in my eyes. Or the wilderness travel system is something that would mainly make sense to folks familiar with OSR travel systems.
So it's sort of hard to figure out what it'd fit in with since it's based on d&d in the particulars and deeper parts but very different in the superficial aspects.
>>44412278
Tried Homebrew General at >>44359324? "Based on D&D" is something that can be slung at most RPGs anyway.
>>44412257
No need to get defensive, he's only saying that it deviates a bit from OSR usual game design frameworks, and people from other threads might have better advice. You need to learn to not take criticism on your work personally, it seems like you're trying to defensevely justify every odd thing people point out on your system.
>>44412489
Eh, guess I'll keep getting feedback by playtesting.
homebrew general understandably ignores middle ages fantasy games with poor organization since they're a dime a dozen.
>>44412503
I will admit that I am defensive.
But I do think it's kind of bullshit people say it deviates from the norm 'too much' to be OSR when its still more DnD then Gamma World or Traveller or whatever other systems people talk about on occasion in this thread.
>>44403270
You forgot this little gem.
You don't want your dungeons to suck.
>>44412540
Might be worth slinging your core resolution mechanics at HBG. You could snip them out of the main document and make them dress like setting agnostic rules.
I skimmed a bit deeper into the document and while I liked the names you'd chosen for the armours it wasn't quite clear to me what each category represents. I take it that Brigandine also represents Jack/Coat of Plates, but are the statistics meant to represent wearing this sort of armour with chain/mail?
>>44412626
>"little gem"
>very first bit we get is a bunch of unpronounceable names and races
>>44412705
Each set is designed as a complete set of armor. So a chain shirt would also include a helmet and greaves for example. It's meant to be a bit more realistic than most names but still abstracted and not autismal.
Mainly it's just that "studded leather" sets off my autism.
>>44412595
OSR is more rules-related than theme, really. It just happens that most OSR grognards are really into Sword & Sorcery too.
>>44413033
How is the homebrew document not aligned with old school style rules? I'd like some specifics.
I made a combined map for Forgive Us.
http://puuDOTsh/madT9/c9d7fa2be6.png
>>44414831
Looks cool but I need more context.
>>44414851
Forgive Us is a module for Lamentations of the Flame Princess. This is just all the small maps of each room combined into a large map for ease of viewing. Left side is ground floor, middle is first floor and right is the underground areas.
The secret doors in the Warehouse also don't line up and I had to shorten some of the underground bits, but otherwise it's accurate to the adventure.
>>44409811
>>44410583
What's this five room dungeon? Why is it something people want to hide? Is it a meme?
>>44420016
Nah, it's a formula to create quick dungeons.
It goes
>Guardian room
>Puzzle room
>Trick room
>Climax room
>Revelation/Reward room
They don't have to be in that exact order, and they don't even need to rooms, maybe just scenes spread out through more or less than five different rooms.
Anon was commenting on hiding it from the players because it kinda sucks when your group notices the pattern in your dungeon.
>>44412626
>mfw I accidentally click on something that turns out to be narrative horseshit polluting my OSR thread
I could complain about the edginess, forced for da ebulz, and utter mangling of Nietzsche, but eh.
>>44413953
The criticisms I'd give for it are:
1. One class is a pure, straight up, healbot with no redeeming qualities or variety at all except for a kinda nifty flavor, way moreso than, say, a pacifist cleric in 4e is. There's no rule that states OSR can't have pure healbots with no variety, but this is pretty much the exact opposite direction we want RPGs to go into. There is one ability that bucks the trend for this class, a proactive anti spell defense.
2. Another class has utterly hazy 'mother may I' mechanics "adds +1 for each act of devotion, sacrifice, or work you've done for the clergy or the God itself" "this works against cowards and weaklings, or people overly fixated on the rules." In the former case, you have to assert yourself constantly and hope the GM agrees with you whether xyz act counts as "devotion" or "work," and in the latter case, you barely have an ability to tell if your power will work.
3. Items. There's no rule that says OSR games can't require you to nitpickily keep track of tons of durability levels. But Dear God, I already feel bored just imagining keeping track of my moccasins, gloves, "for sheepfucking" shin guards, etc.
4. Can't rate the debaser magic system, as it wasn't included, though the substandard nature of the cultist and militant don't leave me optimistic.
5. Random access to races instead of classes... okay, whatever.
6. Saving throws. Wow, these are total garbage -- I'm not sure why "OSR" developers try to MASSIVELY inflate the importance of stats, when this is one of the pitfalls of WotC editions. Roll 3d6+1, that's your saving throw number seemingly for perpetuity! No apparent improvement with levels, or by taking the 'healbot' class.
I don't really see what he was going for her, other than special snowflake status -- seems drastically less playable and fun than, say, OD&D.
>>44421271
Thank you, this is very useful criticism.
I'm not going to argue and try to rebuke, I accept my work is flawed. To be honest, I jumped on the OSR trend to capitalize on system familiarity and popularity; because I, in general, run really rules lite homebrew games, as I don't like math and especially tables.
But yes, I agree with many of your points. I'll need to work on how to streamline the system. (though I will just insert I was intending for characters to be able to gain stats from training or random chance as they get items or do quests, and they could lose stats from getting severely injuried or cursed, that kind of thing.)
>>44422115
You're welcome, and sorry to be overly harsh. I also didn't quite see where the stat modifiers were.
The way I see stat modifiers as to saving throws, is that in AD&D, you have about an 80% chance for any given stat to have almost no significant effect, with penalties and bonuses being largely shoved into 10% chances respectably, and very small. With roll under saves, its always going to be big plusses and minuses.
A 6 str gives you a -1 to hit and damage. A 17 gives you +1 to hit and damage. Over 94% of chars (in 3d6, anyway) will fall within one of these two extremes. This is the equivalent in 3e of most chars winding up with an 8-13, and most winding up with a 10-11. Other stats are a bit different; high dex is a little more rewarding, but dex 6 offers no penalty to hit, just to AC, iirc. So good or bad stats will, almost always, give you the advantage or penalty of 1 or 2 levels, but that's it.
A roll under gives the 6 guys the equivalent of a -4 to their saving throw and the 17 guys the equivalent of a +7. So instead of stats that are a bit low or high giving you the equivalent of a 1-2 level advantage, stats are now giving you the equivalent of a 15 or so level advantage. Or to put it another way, while the difference between a str 6 and str 17 char in AD&D is the equivalent of a str 8 and str 12 char in 3e, the difference, in roll under saves, between a (stat) 6 char and a (stat) 17 char is the equivalent of the difference between a character with a stat of 3 and a character with a stat of 24 in 3e!
TO a lesser extent, this is also why point buy and elite stat arrays became more popular in later editions -- not because the players changed, but because the system changed.
I wouldn't even mind if RPG homebrewers threw gigantic stat variations in their RPGs. Go ahead and have fairies with average str 3 and yetis with average 24, but that sort of whopping power disparity is way more fun if its intentional instead of random.
>>44420831
It's a classic part of gaming history, and got a motherfucker banned for casting spells at reviewers.
>Hail Satan! Lord of the Pit! King of Hell! Ruler of the Earth! Master of the Abyss! I open the unknowable doorways and touch the violet flame, drink the revitalizing blood and break the skulls of those who cross Him or His brothers. I call upon the most vicious demons of Hell to intervene. From this night forth, you will be plagued by self-doubt, weakness, failure, hopelessness, hunger, pain, loss, insecurity, and envy. Nothing can save you and no one will come to your aid. All who have befriended you will now desert you in your hour of need.
>In the name of the Ancient Ones, I curse those who tear down Empire of Satanis! May Satan have no mercy whatsoever upon your miserable souls.
>Hail Satan!
>So it is done!
>>44422869
Ah okay, just thought it was random.
>>44422879
No, just incredibly stupid. Dude came back to the gaming community a while ago and declared himself part of the OSR, publishing shitty edgelord shit like a low-rent, more dramatic Jim Fireprincess.
Is the random esoteric creature generator in the trove? I cannot find it, but I know I used to have a pdf of it somewhere once.
Anyone got it on hand?
>>44423690
Yeah, it's under !GM Resources.
The trove is great, but also a mess. Gentle suggestion: Next thread, or even now, if you know of something cool that was recently added to the trove, mention it.
>>44423720
Thanks a bunch, I see it now.
It seems like homebrew variants of core systems are somewhat simpler to do for OSR games.
>I've been mulling over the idea of rewriting Basic Fantasy RPG so that it fits with the way I was to run games. (Maybe impliment the armor and dodge system from the Conan D20 game.)
Do you have any interesting house rules that you play with?
>>44403270
>Question of the day: Should all PC types be made equally worthwhile?
If I understand OP's question, I'd say the answer is yes. Any class that the players pursue should could with some kind of benefit. You should be able to take a step back, looking at all of your character choices and say, "This character has this feature, and that character has that feature. Both of them are good, but it's up to you as the player to decide which path you prefer." I think that's really what matters, as far as balance goes in tabletop gaming.
>>44422959
One of his OSR books is in the trove. The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence, in the Labyrinth Lord folder. The cover has one up-close shot of a woman's butt in a thong, and one (naked) woman off in the distance being grabbed by some purple cloud thing's tentacles. Thanks, "Venger As'Nas Satanis."
>Caution: mature content!
>An outsider by nature, I don’t usually adhere to groups or rules or authorities. As a child, I never colored inside the lines. That worried my teachers. Today, some might believe me insane because I follow a different path: escapism. Rather than live content in this world, I’m creating another… a reality closer to what I consider ideal. Yes, my beliefs are not like others.
>If I’ve done that, then I’ve done all I set out to do. And if I haven’t, well maybe something about it or me will really piss you off . I’ll take that. Anything but average!
Sorry, dude, you're just mediocre.
Enough silliness, what about the rules? PCs can reroll a stat at chargen in exchange for rolling on the ~~darker secrets~~ table! Your PC may be cursed with nearsightedness! Or a slime-girl fetish. Or have been "convicted of rape (on multiple counts)!" Or you have a tentacle or something, spooky.
There are also rules for "purple spellcasting," which appears to be wild magic but edgier. On a natural 20, a nearby tree or shrub "turns into a beautiful, voluptuous woman with magenta skin tone and white hair [69% chance her left arm ends in a tentacle instead of a hand]." She may be tsundere for the caster.
I'm bored now, barely 20 pages in. There are magic swords that make pop culture references or are really good at hacking computers, or worse, quote Nietzsche endlessly. Worse still... the magic sword might like ~~girl things~~ like rainbows and unicorns!
Anyway, random events happen while you're out camping and go to sleep on the islands, like waking up with a facehugger attached, or "next to a strange woman (1 in 6 chance she's dead)."
>>44426474
Sounds like a cringefest.
>>44426474
Other random while-you-sleep events include a colony drop, or the planet exploding, or maybe you just dream of monsters fucking humans while cultists watch and jack off.
It's not actually that awful, given his older works. It's nothing special, and it's edgy as fuck, but it's... up to middling OSR standards of quality? There seems to have been an art budget, at least.
>>44426502
The Insane Clown Posse are statted.
>>44426563
>>44426502
Oh christ, page 93 is a full-page art piece of a woman facing down a giant monster or two. Her inventory: some kind of potion bottle thing that seems to be glowing, thigh-high boots, elbow-length gloves. Wait... one of her gloves goes higher. Maybe it's just one glove and one bracer or something? Anyway, that's it. Frazetta would facepalm if he saw this piece.
>>44420515
I feel so fuckin' stupid... All this time I thought a "Five Room Dungeon" had literally 5 rooms in it. I always thought, "That's a dumb way to design a dungeon". But it makes perfect sense...
>>44426627
It gets /d/er a few pages later. Although dude, artist, I know you're drawing porn, but could you at least think about anatomy? That mindflayer appears to be a severed head in a robe. I mean, there are two tiny hands coming from somewhere, but where the fuck is its body? There's nothing there.
>>44426653
The piece on page 80 is cool, if way over-detailed to the point where it's hard to look at. The crashed UFO on 62 is great in a simple, cartoonish way. I do like the fucked-up cyborg thing on 55. Finally, the elf on 17 is fucking hilarious.
>>44426319
>armor and dodge system from the Conan D20 game
Elaborate
>>44426474
>The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence, in the Labyrinth Lord folder
I might be blind, but I can't find it.
>>44427001
Sorry, it's in OSR Misc.
I just spent a very confusing two minutes trying to find it.
>>44426956
In the Conan D20 game, you can choose to wear heavy armor or light armor (Or none).
Wearing heavy armor allows you to absorb damage with a damage reduction, while wearing light or no armor allows you to dodge more effeciently.
>>44426474
>quote Nietzsche endlessly
Am I the only one thinking an annoying, cursed sword like this would be great? Now we have to quest to get rid of it.
>>44427739
Nah, just sell it to the edgy elf adventurer brooding in the darkest corner of the bar.
Would it be too much of a stretch to take Into the Odd's core stat mechanics and switch it to 5 stats instead? I feel 3 is still really, really low.
Personally I would switch it to BASIC:
>Body
>Agility
>Senses
>Intellect
>Charisma
Then the rest of the game could feature the guns, armor system, semi-magic, etc. I just wanted to find a decent enough modernish setting with firearms I could use for a custom setting.
I'm sort of prepping a bit to run a B/x game for the first time. As I'm test rolling some characters I realized I'm in camp no-thieves. I still feel like the thieves abilities are kind of nice. Is there a way to sort of migrate those over to other classes? Maybe splitting them between halfling and dwarf? My reasoning being that, while I'll be playing with mature and reasonable players, it feels less contradictory to have a tongue-in-cheek good versus evil backdrop and simultaneously offer someone to play a morally ambivalent character like a thief?
>>44431930
You could always change the title of the class (and perhaps one or two skills). Thieves are mostly there for stealth, opening doors, disarming traps and maybe occasionally scaling walls, all of which are useful things to do in a dungeon and no more morally questionable than murdering shit for gold. It's also worth bearing in mind that Bilbo's job in The Hobbit is "burglar".
With that said, in my homebrew, Dwarves have the engineering side of thief skills (opening locks, disarming traps... along with "construction", which lets them effectively fashion things like lean-to's, canoes and so forth), while Halflings are jacks of all trades, with modest skill in basically anything you would think of as being a skill. So I certainly think giving Halflings and Dwarves some thief skills works just fine.
Same guy as earlier. I want to have a super easy encumbrance system, since it sounds like a nice resource puzzle.
I found a blog post suggesting counting significant items (that are large or heavy) and using that. (ie a shield, 10 ft pole, a bundle of torches are all significant while a mirror or rations are not).
Sounds real simple so I'm going with it. It seems similair to the stone system but less simulationy and easier to wing it with.
However, since I dont have any experience with d&d really I'm not sure where to draw the line for different levels of being encumbered?
A easy way would be to just let people carry up to their STR, and when you get above that you're quickly getting encumbered.
Do you reckon I should make it as a percentile increment or just a static number? Like, every 3 points over your STR puts you one level more (dropping movement speed)? So if we have 3 levels of encumbrance, you can carry your STR+9 points worth of items before being completely immobile?
>>44428305
Cursed emo swords are notoriously hard to get rid off though.
>>44433986
I did something similar, but found that using strength to determine how much one can carry runs very contrary to the spirit of Basic DnD.
So instead I inported the encumbrance system of Lamentation of the Flame Peincess, which is very similar to what you and I originally had in mind. It's elegant, fast and has enough meaningful decisions involved.
The rules are free, so check it out quickly.
>>44435289
Best way is to accept the GMs shitty mandatory quest it will have that goes along with it and at every point turn it into a farce. Pull stupid shit. Cheese dungeons. Etc. Let your DM know if they pull this shit on you that you're gonna completely derail their shit.
Asking for ideas and advice for initiative.
I just keep reworking it. It started as group initiative, evolved into an automatized macro that rolls for every single character snd the enemy, and then lets everyone who was faster than the enemy act however they want, then the enemy, then the slower party members.
Now, my latest musings are making it declaration-based. Each round, everyone declares what they want to do in order of lowest to highest wisdom (so that the more experienced and perceptive combatants get a better picture and make better jusgement calls)
Then initiative is rolled automatically and actions go off in that order or are canceled.
Did anyone try something similar? Any downfalls with this?
>>44403580
>Whenever one of your characters dies, you may send them off with a last words. You may make a new one when you are given a proper burial and your spirit is put to rest.
That's no fun for the player who suddenly can't play until the party has a chance to bury them.
>If you are outside in a great and mighty storm you can fly as fast as a horse
Horses can't fly.
>Add your class level to your attack rolls AND max
health.
Why do Bastards get the best hit dice, but then also get a bonus to hp for their level. Give them one or the other.
And then more generally, I feel like this needs a lot of book keeping to run, which is fine, but not very OSR. It's more than I'd want to keep track of.
>>44435597
>That's no fun for the player who suddenly can't play until the party has a chance to bury them.
That is true, but its a slightly meta and roleplaying idea that the player may be able to either act as a spirit for the party or the player cannot move to a new character unless he is buried. It also forces the players to act a little less like murderhobos for a bit and actually do something for their fallen friend.
>Horses can't fly.
Is this a serious criticism?
>Why do Bastards get the best hit dice, but then also get a bonus to hp for their level. Give them one or the other.
The purpose of the game's low health level is to keep things dangerous for all players and to kind of reign in the unrealism a bit. Their biggest health die only means they start with 10 health + Constitution score, that's it. Every one else stays at that amount of health without very strange means indeed; but the Bastard/Fighter alone gets more as he levels, making him better at taking damage slowly and surely is a good way to both limit growth and make every level feel big. Unlike other classes he only gets a new trophy if he kills something and techniques are very minor, so that extra to hit and HP is a good reason to keep adventuring.
>>44436128
Then why are all the classes listed as having a hit die in d# format, if they don't ever roll it?
Also:
>It also forces the players to act a little less like murderhobos for a bit and actually do something for their fallen friend
doesn't really feel like it matches up with the flavour of the game. I mean, why would a bastard and a debaser care about burying their dead party member?
>>44436299
>Then why are all the classes listed as having a hit die in d# format, if they don't ever roll it?
For starters, its traditional. Secondly, and more pressingly, it IS still used for thing like healing at camp and stuff.
>Doesn't really feel like it matches up with the flavour of the game. I mean, why would a bastard and a debaser care about burying their dead party member?
The world isn't a nice place, that doesn't give you a right to not be a good person.
>>44435368
Yeah, it's a great system. Pic related.
>>44403615
>>44403624
No If anyone had this they would horde it like a nigger hordes bling, its too rare to be taken apart and scanned.
>>44435368
My personal spin on it is having each point of a positive Strength modifier add to an encumbrance tier from >>44437185.
For example, a +1 Strength allows the character to be treated as Unencumbered from 0-2 points, Lightly at 3, and so on.
+2 Strength also has Unencumbered at 0-2, but Lightly at 3-4, Heavily at 5, etc.
+3 has the above changes, but Heavily Encumbered covers 5-6 points, Severely at 7, and Over 8+.
Then again, I also have a piecemeal armor system (based off of a combination of both Delta's Stone Encumbrance and Robert Fisher's Alternate Armor), with the equivalent to LotFP's Plate weighing in at 4 points instead of 2.
Something like that kinda requires a bit of futzing around with the system, and I like how it models carrying armor. Under my system, a character with no (or a negative) Strength modifier can just barely walk with full plate harness, and can't really carry much else without being rendered immobile. However, as the Strength modifier increases, the character finds it easier to be able to move with more stuff, until maxing out at the +3 modifier (a natural 18 Strength), able to wear the plate harness, lug around a shield, sword, and a couple of small items and still have a 60' movement rate.
>>44439841
I hope nobody has negative strength. I'm doing something similar to this, but instead of modifying the encumbrance points, STR modifies the item slots. So a +0 str character has 5 item slots (and for going over that limit, he gets +1 Encumbrance point). A +2 str character can carry 7 items before getting encumbered. Etc
For a low level campaign, isn't the elves REALLY powerful in B/x? Why would you pick a magic user over an elf if you're not playing long enough to gain tons of levels?
I know Rules as Physics can lead to some stupidity, but I like it when rules inform a setting. Do you know any dnd or osr setting where dnd's quirky rules and assumptions inform it?
For example, I mean shit like the Quest For Immortality is not just a rule in becmi/rc but is actually a Big Fucking Deal that affects national history in Mystara. Another thing would be how wandering monster tables help you imagine what the wilderness is commonly like in a setting.
>>44441930
Depends on the level, really. When they first start out, they are dramatically overpowered, having the capabilities of a 1st level magic-user combined with a 1st level fighter (except with one less hit point on average). But other folks hit third level before they hit second, which puts them at a severe disadvantage for a little while. But lagging a bit more than a level behind doesn't mean so much by the time you get to 6th level or so, and they're back to being pretty powerful again. Overall though, I do think they're a bit too sweet.
I like the idea of doing the following: use the slower elf spell progression from Swords & Wizardry White Box (see pic). Reduce their XP requirements to match those of Magic-Users. Limit them to chainmail and a one-handed weapon (no platemail, no shields, no two-handed weapons). Keep everything else the same.
>>44437185
>>44435368
>>44433986
There's also this thing, which is pretty neat.
>>44442476
Read his post again, he mentioned the stone system already.
>>44442118
You absolutely want to read this. It's inspired by the canonical OD&D map, encounter tables, and rules, so you might want to be familiar with those - when it says that there's a chance a knight will come out of a nearby castle and challenge you to a joust, that's actually RAW.
>>44443430
The original form of that map, for reference.
>>44442476
Mm. I want to combine this with something like Torchbearer's system, just for the way it looks.
>>44443430
>Encounters in towns and cities are limited to two types: Men (fighters, clerics, wizards, brigands and bandits) and Undead (the whole classic list). They are literally half and half, so each town must have some fairly active necropolis attached to it, and the population must bar themselves indoors at night. Banditry and brigandage in the towns, and undead, are obviously combated to some extent by the humans who are also wandering with their retinues.
See, basically everywhere is Mordheim/Frostgrave/Reallybadtown, and those are the _safe_ towns. Living in castles is safer. There are a few scattered villages. It's reasonable to assume that the civilised parts of town are small, fortified regions on the outskirts of larger cities that may lie in ruins, or perhaps they're slowly recolonising the urban area.
>>44443527
>>44443430
What I like about these apocalyptical settings is that they let all the roaming monsters and unplundered dungeons make sense.
>>44443527
>>44443430
>>44443430
Man, OD&D's implied setting is ridiculously post apocalyptic. I could slot in Other Dust's post apocalyptic tags and adventure templates there no problem. It's great.
I love that high level Fighters having several military units' worth of flying knights kinda evens the odds when they assault high level Magic Users and their armies of undead. With clerics and their Ent buddies too, domain level mass combat sounds really interesting in this setting.
High stakes too since there are so few people left and you'll be gambling them all in war. Do OD&D's retroclones maintain all these interesting rules and implications, or do I have to read the originals?
I picked this up the other day and fell in love with the old-school aesthetic. and the fact that there's like 80 published modules (many of which are gonzo as fuck, as a bonus) make's me curious if this is the OSR to put my time into learning and running games for.
yeah? no? what's good and bad?
I've mostly heard complaints about the weird dice needed and the amount of tables needing reference, but the Crawler's Companion App they released seems like it streamlines the fuck out of those things (so long as you can settle for the machine rolling for you).
>>44443650
A comment from an od&d forum's discussion of that:
>This is the reason I love Skyrim so much. The designers obviously borrowed heavily from the LBB. You have 5 holds with a sparce population close to the Jarls keep and inbetween are literally wooly mammoths (and their giant handlers), saber tooth cats, necromancers in caves, and bandits galore.
Now Skyrim is obviously bethesdatrash like Oblivion before it, but when you squint it does seem a bit better.
Also, from the PDF:
>The map gives us no indication of roads through the grasslands. If there are paths between the towns indicated, they must pass through forests or over mountains except for two towns in the center area.
You could make a pretty decent campaign out of a serious attempt to build and defend solid trade roads.Or railways.Maybe there're empires out to the east and west borders, and this is (horrifyingly) the least shitty territory in-between, so they're sent some adventurers to see if they can get some trading routes through?
>>44444094
I personally run homebrewed DCC over roll20, so the weird dice and tables aren't a problem.
Also honestly, I rather enjoy the tables, especially magic.
I'd say the biggest negative is that the book assumes you already come from a previous game and are familiar with how some things are done, so it completely disregards rules for travel and similar GM stuff. And these things can be really important in oldschool play.
My recommendation would be to download the free Lamentation of the Flame Princess PDF and use the rules there for anything that's missing from DCC. Pretty good stuff combined, really.
I know it's probably in the Trove and I just can't see it, but do we have "Original Edition Delta: Book of War" anywhere?
A little bit of wisdom from Oubliette magazine.
I may have just copied the diagram into my RPG notebook, albeit with the D&D pyramid inverted and directly beneath Maslow's Hierarchy.
>>44442118
Depends on the Rules As Physics in question. The ones you mention are solid gold. However, I have to struggle to think of situations where it'd matter to my campaigns -- perhaps dungeon based factions would be aware of all the centipedes and rats in their dungeons, and both I and a lot of other writers were aware of the use of oozes/slimes/etc as waste disposal.
Flying mounts etc. strike me as too high fantasy to use except in very extraordinary situations.
>>44445457
thats entertaining
>>44445481
>Flying mounts etc. strike me as too high fantasy to use except in very extraordinary situations.
Honest question, how many people in this thread have been in a party that's obtained an airship, or been a DM and given their PCs some kind of airship?
>hard mode: no gasbags or spelljammers
>>44445836
Nope. I've travelled on an airship a couple times and and played a couple spelljammer campaigns, but that's it.
>>44445836
>airship
"airship," pictured
And a couple of flying skiff/cutter/sloop things, usually with sails above *and below*, natural buoyancy, and a rope ladder/gangplank.
>>44429787
I don't think it would be ItO anymore. Stats are used for saves and taking different kinds of damage. What would cause sense or charisma damage? Sense saves smell suspiciously like spot checks, which ItO kind of made a point in doing away with them. Adding charisma would make sense, if you were going to expand upon the detachment and hireling rules. Rather than just using WIL saves to see if you can retain your small army, you would use something else.
Adding charisma makes sense, in fact, an earlier version of ItO did have four stats, but it was wisdom and intelligence which ended up getting rolled together.
>>44443244
My bad. Skimmed because I was in a hurry.
>>44444094
I personally think that the hodge-podge of rules that is old-school D&D doesn't work very well once it starts getting rules-heavy. The lack of uniformity really isn't an issue when the rules are spare and the DM is filling in the gaps via improvisation and attribute checks, but once you add in a bunch of new stats, restrictions, and so forth, it just becomes a jumble. So while DCC has some neat ideas, I really don't care for the unified whole of the thing.
Found a useful thing. It's one page out of some Harn supplement or other, but it's a neat little random weather system. Gameplay-oriented, not simulation, but lets you have weather getting better or worse in stages.
>>44447489
Also I really need to redo this with weather symbols that make sense, AKA what I'm used to from the met office.
