Hey /tg/
who would win in a ground and space skirmish? the Empire or the Imperium of Man? Assuming EU canon for the Empire.
Not the Hutts, that's for sure.
>>44339365
Look at the ships the Imperium has, look how better their walkers are. Try using your deathstar against a blackstone fortress.
>>44339365
The Galactic Empire uses megaton shots at hundreds of kilometers.
The Imperium uses hundreds of gigatons and teratons at hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
>>44339511
Technically, Abbadon's flagship is a faster, better-armed and less vulnerable version of the Death Star.
>>44339548
Not to mention that the Imperium is able to build death-star sized megastations within months whenever the Admech is not on their time of month.
>>44339365
The Fifth Imperium of course. I mean, if one of their ships accidentally turns their FTL on near a star, it collapses...
I don't know shit about the Imperium's navy or SW naval stuff outside of 'X-Wings trump Death Stars', but I'm pretty sure that the Imperium wins on the ground hands-down. The Empire has fancy-ass bullshit like underarmed walkers instead of proven, reliable tank designs. They don't have genetically altered posthumans to do the heavy lifting, so they don't have an answer to Space Marines. They don't have any power armor that I can recall, so they don't even have a proper answer to the Sisters of Battle.
There have literally been hundreds of debates on this already, but;
Imperium. Even if you throw away the pure statistics about weapons and armour, etc, the Imperium has thousands, if not millions of times more people than the Empire.
>>44339365
>Assuming EU canon
That's been Non-Canon for a very long time.
Lucas called it off more then a decade before Disney took the reigns.
So if you are going to include your fanfiction, then 40k can have all it's fanfic also.
40k is pretty dumb, because its big ships are pretty large, but are designed without a proper understanding of scale.
They are literally designed as if they are between 10 and a 100 times smaller than their listed sizes, as if the designer made the ship, submitted it's specs, and then the writers compared them to Star Wars's ships and said "Shit, we can't have smaller ships. Toss on a few extra zeroes at the end."
>>44341382
What do you mean. They've always been portrayed as enormous constructions in the fluff. Compared to cities in space and the like.
>>44341767
He's bitching because he doesn't like kilometre high cathedrals and gun barrels large enough to fit house and yard comfortably in.
>>44341382
Figures are off pn that chart. Imperial cruisers are stated to be about 5km long for example. Though they match up pretty well if you swap the unit too miles instead without changing the numbers. Which is probably how the mistake happened.
Throw in the Earth Empire from Starprophet.
>>44341783
They could've put more gun instead of the cathedrals, you know.
>>44341902
But then how would they venerate the emperor?
>>44341902
The Cathedral is just the shape of the super structure.
There is an actual Cathedral on board but that is unrelated to the shape of the ship itself.
And it's literally covered in guns already.
A long time ago I read a lenghty forum discussion on this matter and it was pointed out that EU Galactic Empire has considerably greater numbers in terms of capital ships alone, and generally a much faster and better production, while the Imperium's capital ships are mostly irreplaceable. Also GE has more reliable means of FTL travel and possibly logistics in general.
Imperium would stomp the Empire on land, considering how fucking superior the base lasgun is to SW's blasters and that stormtrooper armor is almost pointles even against the latter. Stormtroopers are possibly better trained than guardsmen, but guardsmen are used to fight desperate battles against impossible odds and to keep holding the line or get BLAM!med, and have far superior numbers.
The Galactic Empire dominates its galaxy and only has to enforce imperial law and contrast lesser, although persistant, nuisances, like multiplanetar criminal cartels and the Rebel Alliance; they're in a constant state of martial law, but all they need is a bunch of capital ships in each system and a number of fleets to deploy in case of greater necessities.
On the other hand, the Imperium is in a constant, desperate struggle for survival, drown in endless wars against overwhelming enemies, that can only be held down drowning them in the corpses of countless Guardsmen. The Galactic Empire is highly militarized, but hell, the Imperium knows only fucking war and turning the lives and souls of all its citizens into weapons and stones to bulwark the kingdom of Men is the only hope to borrow a few more centuries or millennia of existance.
In the end,
>Imperium stomps on ground
>Imperium has a resolution and a willingness to undergo terrible sacrifices that the GE could never even contemplate
>Imperium easily conscripts and sacrifices far more men to war than the Empire could
but on the other end,
>Empire has probably an edge in space (due to numbers and production)
>>44342062
Even in space the Imperium would win. The range of fire of Star Wars ships is hilariously short.
>>44342062
>Also GE has more reliable means of FTL travel and possibly logistics in general.
You are forgetting that their Hyperspace maps took, what, ten thousand years to chart out?
The Imperium just needs a single fixed point of reference or they so down by about a third as they have to stop every so often just to reaffirm where they are.
Imperium in Star Wars Galaxy would become a small but uncontestable force. Any attempt to expand would require entire fleets to feed off attacks and they would need to protect their gains continuously.
The Empire in 40k is incapable of zipping all over the place because they don't have a map and so it just comes down to how well the Imperium can tract them down.
If the Ad-Mech reverse engineer Hyperspace though, the Imperium is getting a lot more deadly.
The Empire on the other hand would need Gellar Fields and Psykers to exploit warp tech or they are stuck warp-skimming like the Tau.
>>44339365
Good taste has lost regardless of who wins.
>>44339365
1000 Jedi on par with Windu on that clone wars episode where he rips droids with his bare hands Vs. 100 Space Marines, who wins?
Assume all marines have bolters and the shittiest armor. Assume jedi have their robes and one lightsaber each.
>>44345340
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cF3ocZu4cZo
The vid in case anyone doesn't know what I am referring to.
>>44345340
10 to 1 numbers in favour of the jedi vs marines not in their normal armour?
You've rigged this fight pretty hard.
>>44345522
I didn't mean outside of normal armor, just no terminator armor, etc. That would be just too much imo.
>>44345340
Bolters fire explosive bullets, and with a rate of fire considerably superior than blasters in SW (at least how we see them in the movies).
Jedi deflect ranged fire hitting them with their lightsabers.
I see Jedi being decimated by fire pretty quickly.
>>44345761
That and marines are actually fairly tactically competent unlike droids. So they'll do stuff like setting up crossfire and not just attacking one at a time. They can probably still pull it off. If the sergeants have their powerweapons still it's probably their advantage.
>>44345761
Yeah slug throwers are their bane, but considering Windu dodging blasts and the possible use of force to deflect projectiles one figures after they catch up they'll have an easier time working around it.
Also precognition.
>>44345559
If the jedi get their best, why don't the space marines? I mean, they're already outnumbered 10-1.
>>44345340
Against you normal average-tier jedis? Marines would probaly win, but they would suffer heavy losses. Against Windu-tier 1k jedis? Marines don't stand a fucking chance. Seriously, fanwanking aside, SMs got no fucking chance in the world, they would need a shit ton of special gear for it.
>>44346064
Because of the whole thing were space marines can always defeat their enemy even with DBZ power levels.
I still remember that thread some anon argued marines could beat the Justice League.
Plus the Jedi's/Sith best would be 1000 star killers or a 1000 Vaders-thar-never-got-burned
>>44339365
Which empire? You're going to have to be more specific.
>>44346116
Wankers gonna wank, and nobody wanks as good as 40k wankers. Some people get at Sonic the Hedgehog levels of retard.
>>44345801
A power weapon can probably clash with a lightsaber, but I don't think a space marine sergeant could keep up with a Jedi's speed and reflexes. Not sure of the source but I've read on the webs that EU jedis are supposed to fight near lightspeed. And if we're talking about Mace Windu level jedis...
I'd say Marine can win only if they manage to kill most Jedis before they get at close range.
>>44345814
Considering Jedi reaction time, if they can also actually use the force to stop a hail of bullets in mid-air (Matrix style), there's pretty much nothing Marines can do. But given how movie jedis fight, and need to focus on single objects to use telekinesis on them, I'm not sure they can do this trick. (Although using movies as a reference goes against my previous reference to EU details)
>>44346352
Marines can actually keep up with the jedis in melee, Force is what gives those jedis an edge. Yeah, marine's melee moves can't be seen with a normal human's eyes, but they can't do shit aginst the force.
>>44346352
Marines probably lose on speed and their reflexes would be better if Jedi didn't have the force, but they do so...
Strength wise though the marines probably have an edge
How about this, Magnus vs Sheev
>>44346597
Magnus stomps (if Sheev doesn't use some EU I don't know about).
>>44346352
By the way, in the RoS Palpy lifts multiple objects at once.
And I guess stopping projectiles would just be force push?
>>44346437
I doubt that. Standard melee weapons can't block a lightsaber. Even in the universe were lightsabers DO exist, armor and weapons capable of resisting them are extremely rare.
And even movie jedi are shown to have incredible reflexes and combat speed. Marines have superhuman speed, but not at the same level; and surely not on par with Mace Windu, which was the third most powerful Force user of his time.
>>44346579
A Marine is probably stronger than a Jedi, but strenght is hardly a factor considering a lightsaber slash can, likely, slice off a marine's limb, or head. ALtogheter with his close combat weapon, unless it's a power weapons.
I'm not wanking SW, I'm trying to be realistic here. My favoured scenario would be >>44345761 : Jedi smugly deflecting bolter fire only to find themselves shred to pieces by the explosion.
1000 Mace Windus against 100 regular marines is a stomp for the jedi, 100 average jedi vs 100 regular marines could be feasible if the latter have field advantage and the former don't decide to rely entirely on force shenanigans.
>>44346770
Things that deflect lightsabers usually have disruptive energy fields.
>>44346770
I put in more jedi because I figured a lot of them would fuck up the bolter deflection thinf by the way, and would take a while to actually adapt to the marines.
While the marines would be used to seeing crazy psykers with weird weapons.
>>44346770
>I doubt that. Standard melee weapons can't block a lightsaber.
>>44346870
Pretty sure it's some special element bullshit like cortosis.
Pryst or something?
I forget
>>44346870
Yeah, we've seen these often in the last six movies, right? Also, as for the other example of counter-lightsaber weapons (the staves of Grievous' bodyguard droids), this is clearly based on an energy field, like >>44346792 said.
Regular marines don't use weapons that generate force fields, except power weapons, that would be limited to sergeants anyway.
(Also sorry for the several typos)
>>44346991
Phrik is the stuff Mangnaguard staves were at least partially made of, but it's left unclear whether or not the electric looking field was more important.
>>44347056
I thought droideka's fields blocked lightsabers/blastershots
Star wars has more efficient ftl. Regardless of the outcome of battles, the empire could probably win an attrition war.
>>44339365
Are you people fucking dumb? This thread appears daily and the answer is always the same. One platoon of Space Marines could end entire regiments of Stormtroopers. One Imperial flagship could unleash a storm of torpedoes that would end Imperial fleets. The two universes simply exist on completely different power scales, with the Star Wars universe essentially being WWII technology in space and 40k tech being WWII technology with all the numbers multiplied by ten in space.
In a new universe?
Because if the Imperium got a new galaxy somehow and only had to worry about Star Wars level stuff they would cry blood tears of joy.
>>44345340
Space marines realise they are fighting the 1000 best Jedi in the galaxy. Goes Ave Imperator and calls down a Lance or Macrocannon strike. Every thing inside a like 1-10 km Radius gets glassed. Imperium Calls it a win and build a shrine to honour the (insert company number here) company of the... chapter.
>>44347207
>One Imperial flagship could unleash a storm of torpedoes that would end Imperial fleets.
But muh void shields
You're right though, comparing two science-fantasy settings reasonably is basically impossible.
>>44339365
Sun Crusher destroys the closest star, resulting in a tie.
>>44347207
Are you, Anon, fucking dumb? Any Star Destroyer could glass a planet as easily as a battle barge from the Imperium, except the Galactic Empire had, in the new canon, about 25.000 of these triangle-shaped shits and made all of them in a matter of, what, twenty years? While every capital ship lost by the Imperium is pretty much irreplaceable.
I agree, as with >>44342062, that Imperium pretty much stomps on ground, but the GE can pose a serious challenge in space battles and has greater industrial production capacity than the Imperium, although being less militarized, which would be an absolute edge on a war of attrition.
>>44342062
No they aren't. The Imperium actually is constantly pumping out new fleets of ships and planetoid-sized star forts that are miniature versions of the Phalanx within months.
And the Galactic Empire at its height only had 25,000 ISD II's.
>>44347150
Maybe. But i doubt it. The firepower and armour discrepancy is just too much in the imperiums favour.
>>44347303
Would the Imperium exterminate Sith or treat them as psykers?
Consider that Sheev's empire really didn't like ayyliens all that much.
>>44346770
1000 Mace Windus only win if we take feats from Legends. Going by the Clone Wars 3d cartoon and Movies, Jedi are helplessly slaughtered by squads of space marines without a single loss.
>>44347735
>Would the Imperium BLAM the weird space magic fuckery?
You already know the answer, son.
>>44347834
Would Jedi fall to Nurgle?
>>44347735
They (and jedi too) would probably treatedlike unsanctioned psykers. Captured and sent too terra for conditioning and sanctioning if feasible. Or executed otherwise.
>>44347859
I don't think the Star Wars universe is grim enough for there to be Chaos cults en masse but I imagine Jedi's philosophy would insulate them against the extremes of emotion.
The most likely Chaos god to enjoy SW would be Tzeenetch because of all the stupid plotting.
>>44346352
That is the wankiest thing ever if they could fight near light speed they would tear themselves apart in atmosphere; plus their would be fucken sonic booms blasting the fuck away. Fuck nevermind 40k wank that is the most up I'd tier shit I have heard in my life.
That's without even the energy consumption strain that would be put on the body of the Jedi to create such momentum.
Fuck if you want to think of the fight it would be like a warlock council led by farseersvs marines.
>>44347916
It doesn't really need to be for chaos cults too take hold. They don't start as murder orgy clubs. Initial tempation is much more subtle and not so much lolevil. A group of chefs who want to make the perfect cake or a soldier who wants to become the greatest warrior to protect his family are ripe candidates for starting to hearing whispers.
Chaos has a the road to hell is paved with good intentions thing.
>>44348674
Well, even in the movies they do deflect individual blaster shots, which implies some fairly amazing reflexes and combat speed. I'm the first one to say lightspeed is ridiculous, though
>>44348871
>>44348674
It was my understanding that the force forewarned them of the intent of the hostile to shoot them and where they were going to shoot for, so they moved the blade into place to block an instant before they were actually fired at.
>>44347476
If you haven't read shit, don't post shit. The Battleships of the Imperium are not replaceable, as Codex fluff has them constructing entire fleets as normal.
> jedi vs spacemarine
A close proxemity to this is when obi fights durge the bounty hunter. Durge is an 8 foot tall alien with superhuman strength and reflexes and instant regeneration.
He unloads blasters on obi. Obi deflects. Uses flamethrower, obi errects force barrier and the flames part around him. Uses gatling cannon on wrist to fire metal spikes at obi, obi deflects them around his body with the force. Durge picks up a speederbike and uses it like a basebal bat. Obi cuts it in half then slices durge to pieces going through his power armor like it wasnt there. Combat trained jedi beat the average marine
> empire vs imperium
Ground stormtroopers have carapace armor and weapons similar in power to lasguns. Basically equivelant to 40k stormtropers just in large cloned numbers. Space marines titans and mechanicus give the m the edge.
In space star destroyers have firepower similar to lunar cruiser which is much larger. Generallly empire ships would have more firepower for their size but less durable. However the logistics and industry the empire hasmis superior to imperium. Empire cam travel without hyperspace routes as shown in outbound flight novel. They just use short jimps or hordes of probe droid scouts. Unlike 40k ships as small as a few meters can have ftl. In space empire has more ships far faster better anle to replace them. They would win in space which means in most ground battles they would habve orbital control which would alow their imferior ground troops to win with orbital strikes and bombardment suport
>>44349465
My fucking god Warsies are the dumbest, most retarded fanbase.
>Obi Wan can best a Space Marine
Firstly dumbass, the EU is retconned. But even then movies take precedence over all canon, and always have. Jedi move at visible speeds, get dropped by concentrated blaster fire, and have zero defense against explosives.
Astartes are fast enough that they can duel Jedi effectively even with precog (Space Marines can launch supersonic sword blows and have nanosecond reaction speeds that allow them to dodge supersonic rounds without any precog magic) considering that even normal Humans without force powers can fight force sensitives. Jedi also have zero defense against bolters, because trying to deflect them results in superheated gases blowing against your flesh and shrapnel.
>Ground stormtroopers have carapace armor and weapons similar in power to lasguns
>Ground stormtroopers have carapace armor
>carapace armor
Don't make me laugh.
>>44349465
>Generallly empire ships would have more firepower for their size but less durable.
Fucking lol. Imperium ships are both far larger and pack way more firepower into those hulls. ISD's are pathetic as they only have what was it? Eight turbolaser main batteries total? You're looking at something with less firepower than a macrocannon and with such shit range that the ISD basically has to fly right into the face of the enemy to hit shit. 40k ships meanwhile unleash hundreds of gigatons or teratons over distances of hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
>However the logistics and industry the empire hasmis superior to imperium.
No they don't. Kuat is a poor man's Forge World, and the Empire only possesses a handful of worlds like it.
>shown in outbound flight novel
Not canon anymore, not to mention that the plot of the novel had people getting fucking LOST because they WEREN'T using hyperspace routes.
>In space empire has more ships far faster better anle to replace them.
Fucking lol, the entire fleet of the Galactic Empire is smaller than what one Segmentum uses.
>They would win in space
No they don't. Star Wars ships fight at hundreds of kilometers with megaton yields- modern day nukes could even put a dent in them as shown by the Clone Wars where we see Capital Ships of the Republic trading shots with CIS Frigates in atmosphere, and there is a complete lack of gigantic fireballs obscuring the screen from gigaton or teraton yields.
>would alow their imferior ground troops to win with orbital strikes and bombardment suport
Star Wars almost never uses orbital bombardment even when they have the advantage.
>>44349871
>>44349733
Wow 40Kids really are pathetic
>>44349916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oblLwxbtP_4
Man look at all those gigatons and hundred thousand kilometer engagement ranges.
>>44349733
>>44349871
Oh well if we are not using legends as a source for this debate and only new canon there is very few sources to use and none of the more powerful eu tools. That limits us to the movies the new rebels tv series maybe like 2 or 3 books and thats it. Not really enough information for a good debate in comparriosn to the vast wealth of 40k info.
But with the eu or legends as canon wars puts up a very good fight. A star destroyer is around the size of a cobra destroyer. A cobra has only 2 torpedo tubes to use afgainst other ships the rest is point defemse. Comparably sized star destroyer has far more guns and a firepower more similar to imperium cruisers.
The ftl really would be killer too. With milliosn of pribe droids scouting they would have functional hyperpsace lanes to nearby systems fast. Not jumping from one side of the galaxy to the other but certainly making an ever expanding sphere where empiremwouod have a vast ftl speed advantahe able to hit dozensmofnsystems before the imperium could respjnd to one. Being able to flee at will and always pick your battles would gove empire the ege in space
>>44350019
God that show was awful. At least the original clone wars show partially made up for it's weird and often times outright bad animation with genuinely cool scenes. Not fucking "bad guy" drones having to show what bad guys they are by having a line about firing on their own troops.
>>44350128
Two words: Nova Cannons
One shot could decimate entire fleets of Empire ships from outside of even their ability to detect enemy ships.
For that matter so could any single torpedo, gun or lance battery. An Imperium ships weapons are so overpowered that they can score "hits" even of the actual weapon trajectory/explosion is off by several hundred kilometers. BFG clearly explains this with the "planet markers are roughly to scale, and anything that hits the models base counts as a hit" the base would be min hundreds of miles in diameter.
>>44350128
No, because even with the EU the movies and TCW are the highest forms of canon. Many plotlines simply cannot happen with high yields unless we assume the characters to be colossal retards who simply forget their immense firepower exists. If the 200 gigaton yields in the ICS are taken as fact, it invalidates the movies and 3d show as sources completely.
And an ISD isn't anything like a Cobra. A Cobra is the smallest vessel of the Imperium's Navy and is a missile boat. The closest analogue of the ImpStarDeuce are Cruisers... which horribly out-shoot it and out range it.
>>44349916
Is that how you always cede defeat?
>>44350244
Weapons fired at that range would be visible far before they reacher their targets for quite sometime. SDs could s ramble fighters to shootmdown torpedos, shoot them with blasters, catch them with tractor beams or more like perform a short hyperspacr jump to be light minutes away before torpedos or macro. Anon shotmwould reach them. These small jumps can be done almost anywhere unlike 40k ftl where you havr to slow travel to the edge of g e systems gravity well for weeks before entrring the warp. I imagine that is is why the close ranges in star wars ship battles is depicted. Shoot a volley at a ship thtat has 10-20 minutes to manuever before the volley reChes them, that ship will would easily avoid the voley simply by hyper jumping a few light minutes away which can be done even in the e graviyy well of planet
>>44350372
Because a jedi does x in one story but doesnt do x in another is not a direct contradiction. Eu and g canon co exist unless they directly contradict each othrer not this implied contradiction you reference
>>44350499
Really any attempt at engaging star qars fleets in anything but point blank rangemwould result in the star wars ships being somewhere else before those shots reached them unless theyntravleled faster than light.
>>44350604
Except there is a contradiction- Jedi X has Y powers that would have been really useful in situation Z, but he doesn't. So either he's retarded or he doesn't have those powers.
Hell this situation even arises in the movies- we see Obi Wan use force speed at the start of TPM, but when he could have used it to run past all the laser fields to save Qui Gon, he doesn't and just runs at a normal speed.
Padawan of the Year material people.
>>44350499
Imperium munitions are not constrained in speed like their ships. Lance batteries fire fuck huge lasers. Travel at the speed of light, there's no way to detect them before they hit.
Nova Cannons fire a projectile at "relativistic speeds". They work like rail guns, but rail guns that fire rails at nearly the speed of light.
Gun batteries presumably are slower, but considering you can fire at a moving target from across an entire star system and still expect it to hit, not that much slower.
Torpedoes though are slow as fuck.
>>44350656
Those are implied contradictions not direct. Direct is like eu saying star destroyers are 1km and eu saying they are 5k.
Those implied comtradictions even exist in the movies. Obi can crush metal with the force but never things to use it to crush grievousss exposed heart having to rely ona blaster instead. Because he used a blaster and not the e force is not a contradiction from other scenes where obi sends droids flying with a gesture. Thats just how the scene was written.
>>44350807
>That's just how the scene as badly written
FTFY
Stuff like that is why anything not 4-6 ill never ever be good.
>>44350676
Distance in space is huge. Even lasers moving at lightspeed would give star wars destroyers minutes from the weapon bloom being detected before impact, hyoerspace jumps take seconds. We know torpedos and lasers exist in star wars but they are nit used at extreme ranges likely for this very reason. A star wars fleet would k ow a 40k fleet was chasing them days or weeks.0 before they were in range. Empire could pick and choose naval engagwments using overwhelming numbers against small fleets or lighter defended worlds before reinforcemenrtd arrive while avoiding the crusade fleets easily
>>44350676
The sun's light takes 8 minutes to hit the earth, lightspeed is fucking slow.
>>44350918
You can't detect something moving at the speed of light faster than it moves.
Also e know from the movies that the Empire has terrible fucking sensor technology.
They also would not know an imperium fleet was coming until it was on top of them. Imperium ships don't travel through real space. Unless they have pyskers to detect disturbances in warp eddies, the Imperium ships would be completely invisible to the empire whilst they were in the warp.
>>44350860
40k books are full of the same types of contradictions. Characters are just asmpowerful asn the e writer wants them for that scene to make it exciting. Chaos spacemarines sometimes solo platoons other times get entire squads shot up bya few of gaunts ghosts or cut down by a commisar in hand to hand
>>44350453
No, it's my way to point out whenever a 40K fan says "x fanbase is annoying" they are being huge fucking hypocrites.
>>44351025
40k books aren't made by a single man and are often consistent within their own series unless it's written by McNeil. The Talos Trilogy, Legacy of Caliban Trilogy, etc are all internally consistent.
>>44351004
Star wars have very good sensors on imperial ships. Also 40k ships leave the warp at the edge of the solarnsystem and travel on coneventional envines the rest of the way for days or weeks. They dont jump out of the warp onto of ships ina a planets orbit lime star wars ships can do. 40k ships also have terrible aim and often use massed shots to get hits, longndistance lances like that would not be particularly accurate be ause you would have to perfectly predict where the enemy ship would be thats moving thousands of km/hr at the time the lance reached it minutes later. It would be like trying to hit a jet pulling multiple gs with a bow and arrow. There is real reasons why long distance space engagements would be very difficult if not totaly ineffective
>>44351162
So SW is a fast moving surgical knife and 40K is a chainsaw with an ork rocket strapped on it?
>>44351162
Except not even Star Wars ships are accurate. We see quite clearly in the movies and shows that turbolaser fire forms fucking clouds while managing to hit fuck-all. Their point defense is also terrible compared to 40k.
>>44351162
No, they don't. They have to cluster a hole fleet together so close they are nearly touching to scan for a space ship. They also can't scan through or around planets, or detect anything outside of visual range. Besides you seem to be mising th whole "they don't actually have to hit to hit" aspect of 40k weaponry.
All that aside though, let's assume that okay only close engagements will work. That still doesn't play out to the empires favour. mperium ships are so ridiculously up-gunned and armoured that they completely outclass empire ships. So at best all the empire could do is forever avoid the imperial navy. If they ever closed within their engagement range, that would be within imperials hips point defence range. They would have every single weapon battery open up into them and be torn to shreds.
Really all the empire could do is harass imperial worlds and then gtfo there when the imperial navy shows up.
>>44351420
I now have an image of my head of ISD's personified as anime girls like the Jetschool comic hyperspacing over to Cadia, drawing penises in the ground with turbolasers, then hyperspacing out when big bad Lunar-Class-Chan comes over to smack them upside the head.
Thanks anon.
>>44351420
>Really all the empire could do is harass imperial worlds and then gtfo there when the imperial navy shows up
Even that probably won't work out. Most systems have a permanent garison of non warp capable warships for self defense.
>>44351596
Well now I do too.
>>44351597
>implying they would need the naval garrison
why bother, when they could just use the imperial guard garrison to trap the SW in a gravity well?
>>44351815
Wow, you're some sort of ultra faggot.
>>44341244
>They don't have genetically altered posthumans to do the heavy lifting
Dark Troopers.
>>44341244
>they don't have an answer to Space Marines
I know this doesn't mean much, but how would Vader fair against most marines?
>>44353368
He'd probably do well in single combat. Beyond that and even he's likely to get overwhelmed if he grabs the attention of a a squad or 2.
>>44353368
Dark troopers, hazard troopers, purge troopers, space troopers, various combat droids. The role of heavy armor big guns is filled by droids or elite but rare troopers.
>>44351420
You are overpowering 40k ships. ISD feats are comparable to a lunar class cruiser in terms of firempower and there is various dreadnaught multi km star destroyers and SSD that could handle grand cruisers and battleships. SSD have more firepower than a 40k battleship. I mean blasters are bolts of plasma energy, we know how effective plasma is in combat in 40k, very effective. Plus to u have eu stuffmlikemworld destroyers that habe impenetrable shields and literally eat starship processing the ship into droids and ships. Dont know how 40k would deal with a fleet of world devestators jumping ontop of them and tearing them apart to turn into mew fleets and armies.
Honesty a battle with the empiremwpuld be very similar to fighting the tau except where tau have similar numbers and vastly superior mobility. Lets not forget themholonet alowing for imstamt communication across the galaxy. Much more effective at coordinating a galactic battle than the slow relay of psykers, it takesmquite amlong time for information to get around the imperium
>>44354778
>ISD feats are comparable to a lunar class cruiser in terms of firepower.
Much less. ISDs are usually rated at megaton equivilent firepower. While figures for 40k stuff sit around the gigaton-teraton yeild equivalent.
>>44354861
No. The eu and tech manuals put a heavy turbo laser volley at 200 gigatons. An imperial class II star destroyer has 50. Not including the smaller guns and ion guns or torpedos thats a huge amount of firepower for a ship that size. A class 2 probably outguns the average lunar class.
>>44355199
The ICS is not acceptable because Venators, let alone ImpStarDeuces, have no gigatons to be seen in the Clone Wars or Movies. It's well known that Saxon was well off his rocker with those stats.
>>44355260
Those numbers are confirmed from the actual movies with feats like vaping iron asteroids with one bolt. Thats the highest canon. The ability of ships to tank shots of this power is a testament to the power of their shields. Howevrr once their shields are down they cant take much punishment which is likely partly due to powermof thenwePoms amd partly due to the strength of armor. It likely that armor is not layered on the ships so much because the weapoms are too powerful for any convtional ship armors to do much.
>>44355260
Star deuces are much more powerful the venators too. Over on spacebattles and stardestroyer.net they have crunched these numbers over and over
>>44339874
I thought that was like, twelve of their ships, FTLing just out of sync, like the specifically aren't supposed to do normally
And I'd think "having identical fleet numbers to other factions, but only if you count their battle-planetoid-and-larger ships" is why they win.
>>44341783
So you're saying he has shit taste and no sense of style. Got it.
>>44355511
No they aren't, not unless you're retarded and don't know what a gigaton is like. There's been discussions on this since the dawn of the internet- Saxon fucked up his numbers and they do not resemble the explosions seen in the movies at all. The power to vape that asteroid was in the megatons, not 200 gigatons per shot.
Again, we see ships in the Clone Wars trading shots in-atmosphere, and there are no massive fireballs obscuring the entire screen or flashes of light blinding everybody. Or fuck, the fact that turbolaser strikes are landing around droids and humans on the deck without causing them to boil away from the heat alone.
>>44350019
No gigatons at all here, and this was higher canon than the books, which are the second lowest to the original marvel comics. Not to mention the armor on ISD's isn't good- the Executor got destroyed by a fucking A-Wing smashing into it at subsonic velocities.
>>44355772
The fact is main guns, the heavy turbolasers are stated to be in the gigatons. Infact the point defense on the providence class destroyers in that clip are in the megaton range. The providence did nit have heavy turbolasers like the isd did, even the early venator only had 8 as opposed to 52 smaller turbolasers, so likely none of the shots in that clip are from heavy turbolasers amd even those show blast radius equal in size to the diameter ofnthe venators engine exhaust, hundreds of meter across, thats after being diffused by the shields as ships inly last seconds once shields fall. Star wars ships generally seem to be pound for pound packing more firepowerw than 40k but with 40k generally having larger and more durable ships. Neither fleet curb stomps the other they are comparable. The exceptions would be admech fleets that can do insane shit and spacemarine battlebarges with transporters. Isd would be ina tough spot having spacemarines popping in all over the ship
>>44346352
>>44346770
>muh light speed reflexes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lN7dkSIgYgE
Theyre gonna get torn apart by bolter fire.
I think one overlooked element is the effect of imperial propaganda on the empire. Human centrism is a core tenant of New Order philosophy and the Imperium is just that ^11. Not to mention the absolute devotion that the God Emperor inspires in so many of his followers.
Think about it, everyone hates Sheev, he's built a culture based on constant infighting and deception and he and Vader treat everyone under them like meat.
Then the Imperium basically requires extra-dimensional Super Satan x4 to incite rebellion and still managed to quell pretty much every major insurrection for 10000 years.
The Empire can't offer anything the IM citizens, it doesn't have faith, it is filled with filthy xenos, for those in power the standard of living is worse, for the masses their isn't any hope or faith. Even if the Empire takes worlds, they will just have to burn them and you know damn well the citizens or leadership will be willing to ruin their planets before they give them up.
Meanwhile, if the Imperium comes across an Empire world, they can offer the government hundreds of extra years of life, exterminate all of the aliens and leave behind a society of humans that have been introduced to the Creed. They also have sub 0 inhibitions about exterminatusing filthy xenos and heretics.
>>44354778
Blasters are not plasma weapons, plasma weapons are something very specific and not common in star wars. In fact star wars goes out of its way to state how plasma was too dangerous and high maintenance to use. So literally IM plasma weapons. Star wars also mentions that laser weapons (those that incorporate plasma) are 100% not blasters and are generally only mounted on star ships.
>>44356010
Jedi are all trained tomerect force barriers. They could erect a barrier directly infort of the spacemarine detonating bolter rounds on contact. Or dodge them with precog. Or push the tip of the bolter making shots go wide. Or take the bolt on the eir barrier if they are strong enough. Or push the bolt rojnd itself making it miss or like starkiller and kyle katarn wouldmdo, catch the shots and fling them back at the shooter. The force gives a ceeative jedi dozens of ways of countering guns withoutnusing a lightsaber to deflect them
>>44356046
>things that never happend in any of the movies
You might as well be quoting your own fan fiction at this point
>>44356042
Propaganda empire wins. Are you kidding that standard of living is better in the grimdarknessmof the 41st millenium?! Its faaaar beter for the average person in the empire than imperium. Shit xeno scum tau have no problem turning imperium to their side. Human empire woild do it even easier.
As for blasters being not plasma, where do you get that? In the eu ammo for blasters is often rdferred to as plasma. Bolts used by clome troopersmwere flat stated to be plasma because they fucked with droids with the ionic discharge from plasma. Other times blasters are referred to as sshootjmg charged particle bolts. Guess what plasma is? Charged particles. Plasma comes in many many different forms but really all it is is charged particles thoughnit can vary wildly in density, temperature etc
>>44356088
>>44356121
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80
Shows a jedi dealing with a flamer and a high speed gun shooting metal bolts. I think durge would wreck the average marine too.
>>44342207
>10 light minuets on a 30+ year old ship
>>44356156
"The beam-tube was the dominant weapon of the elite infantry of Xim the Despot, the Duinarbulon Star Lancers, around 25,130 BBY and came to displace heatbeams and plasma cannons (both of which used lasers to heat plasma) because they were safer to carry and required less maintenance."
"lasers as seen in Star Wars bear few similarities to those in real life: plasma is part of the beam's composition, they can interact with one another and are visible in vacuum"
You'll note that all ship mounted weapons (except small anti-personnel weapons like blaster cannons) are lasers. Almost all infantry weapons are referred as blasters.
Just look up blaster cannon, laser cannon and plasma cannon on wookipedia.
>>44346870
>not the gif
>>44356156
Except almost every non-core world is a shit hole where people rarely live past 60-70. Medical technology is basically non-existent. And please try to remember that I said the racist, cowardly moffs and planetary governors would be the ones convinced by the Imperium's high level of technology reserved for the privileged few. The difference for the population is now they have a new religion saying how awesome it is to be human and how they get to live forever after they die. The Imperium also does a much better job of convincing its people that their conditions are for the best.
The tau also get met with a retribution fleet as often as they get a single planet to sign over. And what could the empire offer an imperial world? The awful shitstorm that every 40k world deals with on a daily basis is way more than the empire could deal with for what the world is worth.
>>44356234
Heatbeams and plasma canons just differ in the mechanism they use to make and dischsrge the plasma using lasers and discharging it ina cloud or beam rather than using the mechanism blasters use to make energeized particle bolts (which is exactly what plasma is, energized particles) to bottle the particle beam along with light likely used to turn the tibanna gas into plasma into a compact bolt. Blasters it seems to be alluded to be a superior weapon to the plasma canons which sem to fu ction the same as 40k plasma weapons which are deadly. The closest weapon in functionality in 40k would be tau pulse weapons which are absolute beasts and generally better than imperium weapons.
>>44356300
Nothing in starwars compares to the drudgery most imperium citizens face living in the average hive or forgr world. Its just ridiculous levels of grim darkness. At worst your a poor moisture farmer on some backwater. Plus they are taught from birth to distrust the xenos and tau can turn them. The human centric alien hating empire would have it on easymode once they introduce bacta and show how fast food shipments and goods arive with imperial hyperspace lanes
>>44339365
Galactic Empire wins in space. Hard. So long as they can forestall a ground battle, they will win through sheer numbers and firepower.
On Ground, the Imperium blows pretty much everything to hell in seconds, and it will be hilarious.
First Order hits Holy Terra and the entire Sol system with the Starkiller and win forever.
>>44356418
Only chance galactic empire has on ground is orbital support. Targeted bombardment with capital ship weapons should give them the edge ina ground engagement. If GE doesnt control orbit they are likely going to get fucked up.
>>44356195
>Posts non canon material
God why are Warsies so retarded? Nevermind that that video doesn't matter anyway, because even in the old canon rating system it was below the supported Clone Wars Show (3D) and the movies.
>>44356009
Stated in non-canon fan fiction tier bullshit you mean that was never supported even in the old canon besides the wet dream of warsies. Movies > Clone Wars 3D > Books, Games, and Comics > Marvel Comics.
>>44349733
>My fucking god Warsies are the dumbest, most retarded fanbase.
You clearly don't have an outside look at 40k fanbase.
>But even then movies take precedence over all canon, and always have.
And since when?
The EU makes sense only because it discontinues much of the stupid shit seen in the movies - like the first army of clones being 200'000 men strong, which is pretty ridiculous for a galactic scale conflict.
Saying "movies take precedence over all canon" for SW is like saying "tabletop takes precedence over all canon" for 40k, which means 2-3 guardsmen can beat a space marine in melee.
>Jedi move at visible speeds
Yeah, because all we needed to make these movies even less exciting was too-fast-to-be-seen lightsaber fights, DBZ style.
>get dropped by concentrated blaster fire
You want movie canon? From what we see in movies, in military operations Jedi always charge forward of their units, giving little to zero fucks about incoming fire. Do they get dropped? Hell no. The only instances where we seen Jedi dropped by fire is when they fight in the arena in episode II - but they're a few dozens against concentrated crossfire by hundreds of droids that surrounded them - and when they get executed by the clones - and they're taken by surprise and from behind in these cases.
In novels, there's reference to a padawan outrunning a blaster shot to deflect it. Dumb? Perhaps, but it's there.
>>44356941
>The EU makes sense only because it discontinues much of the stupid shit seen in the movies - like the first army of clones being 200'000 men strong, which is pretty ridiculous for a galactic scale conflict.
Saying "movies take precedence over all canon" for SW is like saying "tabletop takes precedence over all canon" for 40k, which means 2-3 guardsmen can beat a space marine in melee.
Hell yeah the EU is more sensible! 3 million clones is far better than 200,000, same with there only being 25,000 Star Destroyers?
Look you fucking halfwit, the movies being the top canon is nothing like saying "tabletop top canon", because there is no canon hierarchy in fucking 40k, is equal. But unless you happened to be living under a goddamn rock for the past two decades of Star Wars, the movies were ALWAYS the top canon by official Lucasfilm LTD canon. Fucking deal with it. Hell George never even considered the EU to be canon to begin with, and now with Disney taking over the entire EU has been shoveled away if you haven't been paying attention, with only the Movies, 3D Shows, and the new Vader comics by marvel being canon. Everything else got shoveled into "Legends", where it will never be updated again and left to die while still being published so the Jewmouse gets his money.
>Yeah, because all we needed to make these movies even less exciting was too-fast-to-be-seen lightsaber fights, DBZ style.
Point being that movies and the show are all that matter. Jedi move at visible speeds, were dropped by dudes during Order 66 wielding shitty semiautomatic rifles.
>"Muh Jedi"
No, the Jedi don't get dropped because they're badasses, they don't get dropped because most people in Star Wars are colossal retards when it comes to everything. We see quite clearly in the movies and show how Clones, Droids, and Stormtroopers fail to fucking hit targets point blank in from of them- hell they even manage to miss targets twenty meters away in formation.
>Mfw i like both star wars and 40k because fuckhueg forces of evil being rekt by desperate heroes fighting for the common man
>This shit.
>>44357130
>Implying there are heros in 40k
>Implying that the Orks aren't the hero
>Implying the Orks win ever
>>44354778
Ehm, you dont seem to be aware of one detail.
"Macro cannon" in 40k is a blanket term for all non-lance non-torpedo batteries. For example in Bfg the Murder class cruiser (a personal favorite of mine) is describe as being armed with "The best plasma batteries the mechanicus could build", and those are "macro batteries". Just like eldar are described as using mainly lasers, giant ork-gunz, missile pods etc etc.
And lets also mention that the "point defences" of 40k ships are as hilarious as everything else, they are made (and do) to shoot down everything from thunderhawks to Mantas'... And those require fairly heavy toys, dont they?
Tl:dr I do believe that star wars cannons fall somewhere between the imperiums point defences and main guns, being fairly generous for the sake of argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8hwysZFd4
I'll just leave this here. Lasguns are not anywhere near blasters.
>>44357463
Doesn't matter because those settings are never used against people. This is just more evidence that everybody in Star Wars is clinically retarded.
>Having a grenade setting on your rifle.
>Never using it.
>>44357528
Also, many of those scenes are absolutely retarded wank by the author of the video, the shootout with Han in the docking bay was not an example of megajoules firepower (it makes me wonder if the video creator fucking knows what one looks like), and were some of those blaster shots actually megajoules, everybody standing around it should have their skin burned off.
Post this on spacebattles.com.
>>44356988
>This guy
Man you keep posting for and it is hysterical. Not going to take a side in the argument, but I'm going to suggest you rake whatever is crammed so far up your ass. It's bad for your health and you should seek help.
Cheers
>>44350984
>lightspeed is fucking slow.
I laughed for five minutes I am sorry. I never thought about it that way.
>>44351162
>longndistance lances like that would not be particularly accurate be ause you would have to perfectly predict where the enemy ship would be thats moving thousands of km/hr at the time the lance reached it minutes later. It would be like trying to hit a jet pulling multiple gs with a bow and arrow.
And yet this is EXACTLY what Imperial Lances do.
They don't fire massed volleys, it's several shots fired up to an AU in distance with a fairly good chance of hitting the enemy.
Necrons, who can travel faster then C in real space can be shot at with a decent chance of hitting.
Eldar are practically immune because the ship displaces it's image, so they have to guess where to fire lances.
That's when the Imperium uses massed batteries to ensure hits.
>>44356418
>targeting the planet with the galaxy spanning light house that is the Emperor
>not expecting the weapon to be sucked by a warpstorm
During vandire reign the Emperor destroyed the fleets send to stop Sebastian Thor and a whole chunk of reality was nomed into the warp.
Also
>not expecting the Imperium using teleport technology to destroy the GE ships.
The one true weakness of SW, they won't be able to teleport or defend themselves from units or nukes being teleported into their ships.
>>44356988
There is no canon tiers in star wars anymore like the one lucas had in place. Now there is only two. There is "canon" which is only what disney has made or approved and "legends" which is EVERYTHING else. Lucas no longer has any say over tiers of canoon. So if the debate is about eu or legends then everything from the eu can be used. Canon is only 7 movies star wars rebels a couple books and comics and like 2 mobioe games which has fuckall information really compardd to legends.
Bottomline as has been argued about for like a decade on spacebattles and stardestroyer with fucking engineers crun check ing numbers over and over is that star wars is comparable to 40k in space. Star wars ships pack more firepower for their size and 40k ships being generally larger and tougher. 40k would likely lose due to the logistocsof inferior ftl allowing empire ships to hit dozens of systems in a week, months before 40k fleets could respond to the first strike. Thats ecen asuming slow ftl speeds for starwats habing to use smaller jumps ormprove droid scouts
>all these assblasted 40kiddos
What's the matter, did someone point out how shit your favorite setting is?
>>>/reddit/
>>44361814
>>44362415
And the guy going on and on about "warsies" isn't?
Fandom fights are the most pitiful thing ever.
>>44362447
This I agree on 100%. Different settings are different for a reason, people. Stop making everything a "who wins" scenario.
>>44346643
What if sheev tries spinning?
>>44349462
Isn't it just the xbox class shops that are irreplaceable due to sheer size?
>>44356300
Also tau space Poole recently got torn to shreds by an assassin
>>44357172
The orks have already won, since their race knows no strife
>>44346116
>>44346094
>>44345340
All of this depends on whether these are in game space marines or fluffmarines. And are all of the Jedi resistant to falling to the dark side? There were only around 1000 Jedi in action during most of the Star Wars universe timeline (some anon will probably find a real number) and of these quite a few would be Sith/Sith supporters
>>44356234
You're using ancient tech as an excuse. Not only that, you're completely ignoring multiple statements on the blaster page that calls blasters particle weapons and describes how they work - charging gas into a highly energized state, aka plasma.
And on the laser page for Legends, it also states that lasers work similarly to blasters, and that "laser" is a misnomer.
On the Turbolaser/Legends page, it also says that it's a scaled up version of a blaster, again, using charged gas particles.
>>44362571
That would be a good trick
>>44356195
>Star Wars established as film franchise
>7 movies, all with consistent power levels
>none display any of those abilities you mention
>but anon look at this cartoon I found!
Really m8?
>>44363612
>mwahaha consistent power levels!
>muh cannon
Are you really arguing this shit on a "Vs 40K" Thread?
Hope you die in a gutter.
>>44363742
>someone disagrees with my fanwank
>>44364165
>fanwank
>vs 40K thread
No really, just stop this is fucking sad.
>>44364292
>anyone that disagrees with my non canon fanwank should die in a gutter
>n..no, youre the pathetic one
>>44341382
Executor Class looks impressive, until you remember one was owned by a fucking A-Wing
