Why aren't your Dwarves tiny goat people /tg/?
Still not terribly interesting.
>>44318598
Because goats don't like the sea.
>>44318598
My setting already has goat people, and nothing about them hinges on them being goats.
Well that is cute and all, but I don't really care enough to use it...
I guess instead of living inside of mountains they could just have incredibly dangerously build cities right on top of them
That's just a dwarf by any other name. If you're going to do dwarves you need to get to the heart of what a dwarf really is, and it's not a goat.
Hooves do seem quite dwarfy, what with being sturdy and vertical and shod with metal, but then they wouldn't be wearing boots and I don't think I can imagine a dwarf without boots.
If you can justify dwarves both wearing boots AND having hooves, I might write it into my setting.
>>44318804
Boots are for ankle protection/support. dont wanna roll something on the cliffs.
Because if I was going to have little goat people in my setting they'd be their own thing.
>>44318598
shortstacks with horns?
>>44318598
Separate species; those are goat-people dwarves, and they're to goat people what dwarves are to humans.
>>44318598
Sounds like typical "BUT MY GOATS ARE DIFFERENT".
>>44318866
Shortstacks with horns, curly hair and hooves.
>>44318598
Duergar
>>44318598
Because that would be satyrs, duh.satyrs are cute
>>44318598
I wouldn't be as stupid as to call them dwarves.
>>44318598
Those are sheep people OP.
>>44318598
Wouldnt this more classify as satyrs?
>>44320564
They're shorter, they're stockier, they don't play pipes, they live in mountains instead of forests, and they eat their bread with ground stone and lots of ale. Plus forges and honor and caverns and all that dwarfy goodness, except with more hornes and hooves.
Because I have a race of Therianthropic goat people that are baabaarutal.
>>44318598
Because furfags need to yiff in hell.
>>44318753
I wouldn't replace Dwarves with them entirely, but this idea makes me want to use a race of tiny goat people, just so the players get to roll on their skills every time they want to get somewhere in the city.
>>44318598
Welp, replacing dwarves with satyrs now. This shit is adorable.
What should I call an elf if I do the same, but base it on a deer?
>stubborn
>good at butting heads
>good at survival
>at home on high mountain surfaces
>long beards
Well actually I quite like this, it fits.
>>44321580
centaur?
>>44321580
fuckables
>>44321580
in MtG they're still called elves.
and they're adeerable.
>>44318598
Why would they be?
>>44321616
>Le epik puns xD
>44321637
Dwarves live in mountains, goats live in mountains. Dwarves are tough and stubborn, goats are tough and stubborn. It works.
>>44321637
Goats are
>Stubborn bastards
>Beardy
>Tough and stout
>Mountain dwellers
>Rad as hell
>Probably not opposed to eating cave mushrooms
>>44321616
>>44321610
>>44321606
I guess I'll just stick with elves for the name.
Humans and halflings can make up the "no hooves or horns or whatever" dudes. Think I'll not include half-elves and the like because the racial pairs make more sense to have a "no hybrids" crossing.
>>44321580
>for part of the year male elves go completely berserk and push their bodies to the absolute limit trying to impregnate as many women as possible
>>44321684
Exept they don't mine, they would be better suited to a mountain nomad race, perhaps with an oriental aesthetic. Rather that the mine centric dwarves
>>44319811
>Those are sheep people OP.
OP's a city-slicker
>>44321716
>not doing this every day
This is why your race is passing into oblivion.
>>44321702
>there is a subspecies of fanged elves
>>44318598
My dwarves live in mountains not on the slopes. Otherwise this would be a pretty cool idea.
>>44321730
>Exept they don't mine
But humans, the other half of the "goatman", do.
Humans also:
>Make booze
>Drink it in excess
>Build massive structures for no reason beyond "I can"
>Find needlessly complex ways to solve simple problems because it is entertaining
>Master the fine arts of architecture and engineering, both of which they invented
That's how goat+man=dorf
>>44318598
Because Tolkien's weren't.
>>44321716
Just give them green blood, and they're pretty much Vulcans.
>>44321877
That's a thing that's been bothering me. If Vulcans have green blood, shouldn't their skin be a more sickly green, with green lips, nails and sclera and so on?
>>44321898
There could be coatings on all of their veins that change the color or are opaque. Though that's the only thing I can think of that would explain it.
>>44321855
/thread
>>44320645
So you're changing the place to mountains, and automatically assuming they do everything dwarves do. As expected of a shitty worldbuilder. I bet you think everything on a forest "commutes with mother nature and draws an artistic sense from it" just like elves.
>>44318598
I actually rather like this idea. I might not call them dwarves outright, but if I were to include them in a setting I would certainly give them many Dwarven traits and trappings, and maybe throw in a bit of that Central Asian theme another Anon was talking about.
>>44321855
Why should Tolkien's depictions be the definitive ones?
>>44321755
"Humans do human stuff that other human-like races excel at due to their nature, so anything half-human can be dorf/elf/orc/demon/anything!"
It's as stupid as it sounds.
>>44322101
They don't have to be. But instead of doing something different and calling it a dwarf, why the fuck don't just give it a different name?
>>44321898
I've always found the Vulcans to be slightly greenish. Except Tuvok. But hey, Caucasian people also aren't red. Just slightly pink.
>>44322130
I think there's a great deal of space between original myth and tolkien's depiction where you can place a different depiction and still call them dwarves.
>>44318598
Because I'm not a terrorist so it isn't my fetish.
> Hurr durr lookit me subverting a genre!!1!1!1
Why do your Quinari have giant fucking horns, faggots?
Seriously. You either are adding nothing more than a minor aesthetic quirk, or you're making something that isn't a dwarf and trying to tell me that it is, when it clearly isn't.
You massive faggot.
>>44322161
No, that's nothing like this at all. Quit being stupid.
>>44322141
Yes, but think about it from someone else's perspective. You're changing arbitrary aspects of a race and still keeping the base concept, you're not creating something new or giving more shine to the world, you're just changing something for the sake of changing.
>>44322141
>>44322166
No there isn't you fucking faggot.
Dwarves are categorized by appearance, not culture. Both germanic and Tolkien dwarves were stocky and had beards, the fact that they had different customs and roles doesn't matter.
When you turn them into fucking goat people they cease being dwarves.
>>44322169
Wrong, you're essentially doing what Tolkien did to write his dwarves, drawing from their mythology, but how you construct your dwarves is unlike how Tolkien has done his.
>>44318598
Because that is something else. Potentially interesting and viable but not a dwarf
>>44322173
I'm not talking about goat-dwarves, that's dumb as hell. I came into the conversation asking why Tolkien's depiction of dwarves has to be the definitive one.
>>44322187
And I responded that if you want to make changes, why not call them something else?
I was referring to radical changes such as those mentioned in the OP, sorry for my poor wording.
>>44322199
Fuck, my final point is that you want to keep the "stocky humans with large beards" thing but only make slight changes, obviously they will still be dwarves.
Retarded af atm desu
>>44322199
If you're drawing from the same mythology of Dwarves as Tolkien did, but your Dwarves are different than his. Not radically but significantly so, they can still be called dwarves.
>>44322210
One of the first illustrations of dwarves are short stocky hairy men with large beards. It's an iconic image.
Why not goat-moms?
>>44322115
>being this assmad over fantasy logic
you must be fun at parties anon
>>44322278
>ifunny
This is literally worse than 9gag.
>>44322180
Except that Tolkien created something in the eyes of the public. No one had a notion of what an elf was other than some small percentage of european folks that heard about a tale or two. When he wrote, he popularized his idea of elves, dwarves and whatnot. Today, everyone sees his races as the base, the staple, the things everyone recognizes when they think about a race. What you're doing is simply reinventing the wheel by drawing goats on the side of it.
>>44322283
>implying anon goes to parties
>implying any of us do
>>44322300
>goats
Again, read the conversation, I give no shits about goat-dwarves. I only want to know why Tolkien's depiction has to be the definitive one.
Sure he may have popularized the idea, but I think strictly sticking to his depictions, his formula, only brings stagnation.
Alright.
If folks are taking umbrage to these goatfolk explicitly being called Dwarves, how might we make them their own race while still giving them some dwarfy character?
>>44322283
>goes to parties and talk about fantasy logic
You're sad.
Also, if you're willing to create a "logic" to justify your race instead of saying 'just because my world', at least try and create something coherent. That logic is on par with "I have flying elves because squirrels fly and elves like squirrels".
>>44322323
Focus on the stubbornness, but not the hoarding and drinking?
Perhaps they live on top of mountains, rather than in dwarf-built catacombs?
>>44318598
because we already have satyrs
>>44322337
>have goat people just because
>you request logic
>someone tries to mix two things as an explanation sitting on sticks
>WOOOOOOW I'M NOT BUYING IT, THIS LOGIC DOES NOT WORK FOR ME, EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO BACK TO CASTING SPELLS
explain magic to me, anonexactly
>>44322359
Obligatory
>>44322366
thanks anon, this is exactly the kind of point i'm trying to make
why do people expect logic in fantasy? like, it's fantasy, any explanation you give to anything isn't gonna hold up because it's not real
>>44322323
>>44322342
Stolen shamelessly from the source image
http://blazbaros.deviantart.com/art/U-rth-The-Taurus-358746409
Dwarves
Dwarves are the smallest of the known taurus races, Much less imposing than minotaurs, they are nevertheless possessing of a sturdy and stocky physique, and are more agile than their short legs might suggest. Males grow one or two sets of thick, curled horns that keep growing throughout their lives, and instead of fur they bodies are covered in wool, which in hotter climates must be sheared periodically to avoid overheating.
Gregarious and extremely social, dwarves are more fertile than minotaurs and happily expand their numbers in truly massive herds. They usually raise their settlements in hillsides and grasslands, but many communities establish themselves on the edges of mountains, and even underground caverns. Dwarves are famously laborious, especially on the realm of metallurgy, and there are few areas of craftsmanship they haven’t successfully mastered. Unfortunately this is partially offset by the general belief that dwarves are dim-witted, spurred perhaps by the fact they can be gullible and easily manipulated. Dwarves try their best to dispel this notion, most often through teamwork and sheer thick-skulled determination.
Dwarves get along with most other races but have a particular enmity with black elves, as the latter constantly attack their underground homes should they become aware of their presence. For all the comments about stupidity, dwarven warriors are universally praised for their bravery, charging at the foe regardless of the differences in power or size.
>>44322377
>any explanation you give to anything isn't gonna hold up because it's not real
But suspension of disbelief can only go so far anon.
>>44322323
Capraggi. They speak something not unlike modern Italian (because fuck you, that's why). They're intensely fond of puns, and being good at dropping a good pun in a key point of a conversation is the mark of great cleverness the way that most people see an inspirational quote to be the mark of a wise man. The joke of "that guy who thinks he's a lot better at this than he really is" is almost always stereotypically associated with a peasant Capraggi punster because of how prolific it is. Otherwise, apply traditional dwarfy habits and mix in some pre-Renaissance Mediterranean aesthetics into the traditional dwarf look for something vaguely resembling consistency.
There. Now they're Not!Dwarves but have enough to feel familiar and fresh at the same time.
>>44322391
>They're intensely fond of puns
Never would I have thought one could fuck up dwarves with one simple quirk.
>>44322320
Well, it's simpler than you might think.
When you bring something everyone knows to the table, people can relate to it and feel more conected to whatever surrounds that thing. Eveyone knows dwarves or elves the way Tolkien created, and any real change you make will be seen as an alien concept. It just makes most people see this race as strange or too non-human to relate to. This is for appearance, as most people can accept behavior/social deviances based on setting.
Instead of being uncreative and just slapping a new paint of color on a known race, how about making a different race? You could go and create flying moth-like halflings, goat-like dwarves or whatever and give them unique name/racial/social aspects that aren't restrained by the common notion of what a halfling is.
>TL;DR don't change what we're familiar with, create new things and work from there.
>>44322385
as long as it kinda makes sense in the setting, you don't have to justify why things exist
it's not supposed to make sense, even if you try to make sense of it
look at tolkien dwarves, they've been the base of fantasy dwarves for decades and they're evil husks of rock that were given life by a superior evil magic man from the sky and were made nice by another magic man from the sky
they live in mountains because...? because they're tiny and can fit better in mines? because they're tough? because it reminds them of home? why don't dwarves live in cities designed for them, or villages like the hobbits do?
you don't see anyone questioning tolkien dwarves yet here we are talking about his dwarves and how to ruin them
Humans=Sheep
Dwarves=Goats
Orcs=Boars
Elves=???
>>44322421
Deer
>>44322342
They're stubborn and great miners and craftsmen, but are renowned for their generosity and hospitality and have a deeply ingrained tea culture.
Gnomes=Badgers
Goblins=Monkeys
Kender=OP
Who do the Yaks represent?
>>44321877
Well, with horns that grow and then fall off too. Elven settlements would probably be matriarchal, but possibly with an elected seasonal king. There'd be gender division: most elves you encountered out in the wild would be males, and most elves who were warriors would be male as well. But settlements of elves would be dominated by females and probably split along clan lines.
Meeting an elf on the road would be fine unless they had fully grown antlers, and then really weird and tense because they'd be under massive fight-and-fuck stress. They'd be more dangerous too - antlers are obviously natural weapons, but they also drastically improve the sense of hearing of the deer/moose. An elf in rut would be generally more aware and highly strung about everything. I can imagine them taking to the wilderness because they'd get in fights and get killed in non-elf societies.
>>44322421
>human and his halfling companion
>>44322441
Nobody should be monkeys - too mammalian. If gnomes are badgers (which is cool, actually, normally I fucked hate gnomes but that's workable) then goblins should probably be weasels or ferrets or foxes or something.
>>44322469
Ogres or giants.
>>44322421
Eh, if you make humans anything you're basically just playing Ironclaw.
>>44322412
This guy right here is right.
>>44322502
Elephants?
>>44322564
He really doesn't. When you invent completely originally races, people typically lose interest and don't respond. Dwarves and elves are touchstones for fantasy, and people are generally more invested in seeing them with a twist than entirely new creations.
>>44322573
Ogres or giants that don't live in the mountains. Or Cyclopes, I think Dragon's Dogma did that whole cyclops with tusks thing. Really though paralleling every kind of demihuman or creature to an animal is an easy way to kill what is OPs sort of interesting idea.
>>44322577
>It takes more effort to get people interested in my mothmen.
>Better to steal an unrelated concept
Why not? It worked for Twilight.
>>44322577
Elves and Dwarves are more important as Archetypes than as races.
If there were no elves and dwarves in the setting, but hard-working mountain goats and mystical forest deer, people would instinctively understand the archetypes those races represent.
>>44322577
Actually, you could have a twist if it's actually just a twist. Calling something an elf and then turning it into a hovering brain-like race that loves astrology and feed off of sunlight is the kind of terrible shit people do under the INNOVATION! premise.
>>44322600
I think you've got it. The Tropes of the magical forest dweller, or the stubborn mountain dweller are more important than the race itself.
Like having the Evil Empire being an Evil Democracy. It doesn't matter what the actual system of government is, only that its an evil government evil.
>>44322586
Nigga what do you think you're doing here? If you want to write a book, a comic, pitch a movie - do that. China Mieville uses a wild variety of races in his fantasy books and he does pretty well as a writer of modern fantasy.
But we're playing games here, with our friends or people we're trying to pick up and become game-playing friends with. You tap someone to play games with, maybe don't know them 100%, you really think you're going to do well by reading out the background and specialties of your unique mothman raceI mean I have a fucking predatory moth people race in my setting but I wouldn't pitch it to a completely new player? No, you're probably going to do best by sticking to distinctive fantasy touchstones - like dwarves and elves.
>>44322600
I kind of half agree, but I would shy away from "more important". They're important in both respects.
Also I'm in some ways against the invention of entirely new races just from the perspective of 'no this thing I come up with in a few hours will be better than the inherited cultural debris of some of the most prominent human civilizations ever in history'.
>>44322624
When you do "my dwarves are made of blue cheese" do you really think that doesn't also make players not give a shit?
Goats at least bear some similarities to Dwarves in terms of native environment, cantankerous temperament and general beardiness. It's not the most ridiculous or random decision.
>>44322624
I think it depends if OP wants to either make beast races replace Dwarves, or make a kitchen-sink setting.
In a kitchen sink setting, the goats are going to have to be more unique than the dwarves to stand out. But at the same time, people are going to gravitate more towards the dwarves, because it's familiar ground.
But if it's just goats, than I think the race would have to be recognizably "Dwarfish", while also having it's own unique racial traits.
>>44322646
Well of course! They should be made outta Velveeta like a proper dwarf.
>>44322646
It totally does, but that's a spectrum: I don't feel OPs idea is wild enough to provoke the lolwut reaction of that or >>44322620
>>44322469
Y'know there's a species of yak-men in AD&D. They live in the mountains like Tibetans and keep human slaves. Their base alignment is evil and they have lots of spellcasters.
>>44318598
Because they're rock people.
>>44322577
I came to laugh at your stupidity.
>>44322680
When you give existing races a furry fuzzy look, they lose all of its seriousness and become sort of a joke race, same as cats from the Monster Hunter series. To justify an appearance change, you have to make them act a bit more like the animal you're turning them into, what easily makes them fall under the CUTE aspect of the animal. They soon degrade from the honorable, stubborn dwarven-like creatures they were thought as to a harmless group of cute little goats that struggle to live in the mountains and have to be saved from baddy bad invaders(or whatever you create to threaten them).
>>44322789
Okay, let's just say that's right. In terms of producing an introductory setting, what's wrong with that?
>>44322789
Just posting to laugh at how hard you're trying to reach right now. Seriously, give it a rest. No one's impressed.
>>44322766
Cool way to develop an argument brah. Your memes are sick.
>>44322789
>you have to make them act a bit more like the animal you're turning them into
>harmless group of cute little goats that struggle to live in the mountains
Have you met a goat before?
>>44322766
>>44322829
Those are two different posters. This thread actually has some reasonable discussion without blatant, aggressive shitposting yet so could you decide if you want to contribute or fuck off?
>>44322835
Probably those petting zoo degenerates.
>>44322834
You're literally taking a mushroom and a flower before telling everyone, pointing at the mushroom
>Hey guys, what if we called this a flower?
Your idea is as stupid as that.
>>44322835
>>44322820
It's an example to show how easily your "badass idea for a twist" can backfire so badly you can't even take a race seriously anymore. You guys sure are dumb.
>>44322860
That's not what I'm saying at all:
>>44322624
>>44322680
Absolutely if you make your flower too much like a mushroom (I feel this is a weirdly genital-associated metaphor) it's going to have completely the same effect.
>>44322894
Who says a twist has to be badass? It's okay for things to be cute, a lot of people find cute things compelling.
>>44322930
You really don't get it do you
>>44322894
The only dumb one here might be you, kid. Just because you can't take dwarves with goat features seriously doesn't mean other people can't. In fact, I don't think other people are as autistic enough to complain about this fun spin on a race like you are.
Back to /b/ with you
>>44322971
You sure are mad. Go play with your goats, and try to figure out what an example means.
>>44322966
I don't. It'd help reduce confusion if you actually wrote what you meant to say, instead of presenting a non sequitur and then calling everyone else dumb when they attempt to interpret your idiocy.
>>44318804
Horseshoe style boots.They're nailed on for protection.
>>44323032
Even better - spiked horseshoe boots
>>44323003
It's simple:
When you modify a race like that, you think about what repercussions those modifications should have. You don't just turn dwarves into goats for shits and giggles, you're making people lose interest in your world if everything is different for the sake of difference. So, when you make said modification, you expect a certain reaction and will use it for some purpose as the worldbuilder. But you're the one who made said "twists" and you think like a worldbuilder, not a full-time player. This means that what you think about your new race isn't necessarily how other people will see it. Maybe you made goat-people to make them more relatable, but the players just shun them off as a little tribe with nothing to offer. Maybe you made moth-like halflings to have them better mixed with forest races, but the playershate them and kill them all thinking about them as filthy insects. Anything you make has repercussions you can't possibly account for, and that's why changing a known race for the sake of changing is never good. You can ignore a small goat race that didn't get the attention you wanted from the players, but if you deleted all dwarves to make space for that race, you just made your world less interesting.
>>44323155
>Anything you make has repercussions you can't possibly account for
I agree.
>and that's why changing a known race for the sake of changing is never good
I can't agree.
By your argument, changing or experimenting with anything would never be good.
Goatfolk of the High Mountains
>Build towns and cities, stairways and streets that cling to cliffs and crags.
>Are renowned round the world as skilled miners, masons, and metallurgists.
>Have a fondness for bells and belltowers for use in timekeeping, warning, and celebration.
>Are gruff and serious by nature, but have a fondness for puns and wordplay.
>Have a strong work ethic and deeply ingrained traditions regarding charity and hospitality.
>>44323200
And they have great cheese
>>44323197
Wrong. As a rule of thumb, when I modify something, I always create it either as an unique race or a subrace, never replacing the actual base race. That way, you can have your village/city with your special mods and all, but without hurting the world as a whole. If it actually works and the experiment shows the race serves its purpose, then we can start talking about changing a base race. It'll probably stay as a subrace or new race, because missing out on a full time-tested race without a good reason is a punch to the gut to any worldbuilder.
>>44323077
If you've ever tried walking on concrete/earth/literally any surface that isn't snow and ice whilst wearing crampons you'd know why it's a good idea to have them be removable.
>>44323200
>Are renowned round the world as skilled miners, masons, and metallurgists.
Why are they renowned metallurgists? Why are they renowned miners?
It sounds like you're going "they live in mountainous regions? They must be Dwarves" and leave it at that.
You know who else lived in mountainous regions? The Inca. Did they become "renowned miners and metallurgists?" No.
In fact, I'd go so far to say that mountains are a very shitty place for miners and masons. Have you ever seen a mountain? They're big solid jutting of stone, usually the HARD type of stone, and all the good bits are impossible to notice unless the mountain is literally made of the stuff, like Potosi in Bolivia. Mining and masonry and all those good bits are done in regions where it isn't a bitch to extract the stuff, and you can actually find out if the stuff even exists in the region at all.
Where are your sophisticated rabbitfolk tg?
Nah but all jokes aside this is a fun concept and people really do need to stop bitching.
>>44323269
what base races are you even talking about holy shit
they don't exist
they're figments of some old man's imagination and i'm gonna change them as i damn please if i want to write something different
fantasy puritans like you are the reason we get the same rehashed shit over and over again and we never get to see new stuff, and if we do we get a gorillion assholes such as yourself saying "hurr hburr it's just x but with y twist, it doesn't comform to le norm"
if it's a new world and i say NO ELVES i'm not gonna go and try to justify why there's no elves, there's gonna be no elves because i say so and if i WANT to justify the lack of elves then i will
>>44323520
Fantasy dude. Ores could be magically attracted to it, that shit might fall from magical meteors. Depending on the setting, mountains might just be ore and nothin' but. Instead of fighting the concept because it doesn't work with reality, change the reality of a setting to work with the concept while still in the realm of reason.
>>44323542
This dude has it right. Let something be different.
>>44323538
>Where are your sophisticated rabbitfolk tg?
Rabbits are dumb, anon.
Like, by mammal standards they're dumb as rocks.
Any sophistication they would have is purely a monkey-see-monkey-do from the greater races out there, and their actual services to the outside world would be limited to how hot their women are and if they make good disposable warm bodies.
>>44323547
>Instead of fighting the concept because it doesn't work with reality, change the reality of a setting to work with the concept while still in the realm of reason.
But anon, the best settings are ones where everything fits in a believable way, having to twist the arm of reality to make a concept work in your setting is a sign you might need to re-think the concept. Now I know there are plenty of ways to say "the gods" or "magic" did it, but something as simple as "my race is super good at stones and metal because they live in mountains" will require a lot of bullshit on your part to make that believable.
This is really starting to feel like another "Illusion Magic" thread where we get bogged down in arguing about why things shouldn't be rather than brainstorming how things should be.
>>44323620
But goats are dumb *sniffle*
>>44323620
I wasn't EXACTLY trying to justify the goatpeeps metallurgy (maybe they could just be goatfolk farmers who live on mountains instead of miner-archytypes) I was trying to justify the placement of ores inside of mountains. I get your point though.
All fantasy stuff aside, I thought apart from the super-hard stone that mountains tend to have, i thought they had ore in them because they're pushed up crust. Or am I wrong?
>>44323669
You can say that again.
>>44323542
>>44323567
I'm letting something be different. Anything you want can be different. What I'm condemning is retards like you that simply paint elves blue and give them superpowers while still calling them elves. If you want to be creative, be actually creative and make your own race.
And by base races, I mean the races of the system you're using. You can go and make your shitty world for a book, but if you plan on using this in a RPG setting, keep it in the fucking setting.
Go look for Civ Threads for examples of what I support. They have different races and some even look like recolored dwarves/elves, but each of them is a race and has its own specialties. You're not restrained by the common notions about a generic race and don't miss out on any good opportunities thanks to having the well-known races around, too.
>>44323693
But there is no real reason to listen to you. You shit on peoples creativity without real reason, and sit there yelling at people for liking something different. Tone down the aggression and we might not just be "No u"
>>44323620
Combine the two ideas. Rabbitfolk are always impeccably dressed and poised because they're rather dopey on their own and have decided to mimic high lass humans. As such, they've found their niche as a concierge race in the cities, acting as butlers, maids and bookkeepers.
>>44323732
I thought this was how halflings worked.
>inb4 rabbit halflings and more people get upset.
>>44323679
>I thought apart from the super-hard stone that mountains tend to have, i thought they had ore in them because they're pushed up crust. Or am I wrong?
Mountains are really hit or miss with the types and abundance of ore found within them, sometimes they're almost entirely made out of a valuable type of ore (Potosi, for example) and others are just big slabs of granite. Generally, it's tough to figure out what kind of ores are found within mountains because the evidence of said ore is often hidden behind all that fat mountain stone.
Which presents the other problem; even if there was evidence of gold in them mountains from, say, quartz and quartz-based stones found in the region, you'd have to dig through hundreds or even thousands of feet of rock to get to them. This is a lot harder than it sounds, and when the surrounding hills in the area will probably have the same ore covered only by bits of stone and lots of dirt... Well, it's simply more economical to mine the hills and valleys of the mountain, not the mountain itself.Erebor and the Lonely Mountain was a special exception in LOTR, most Dwarven settlements are found in Hills.
>>44323730
"Boo hoo he's the boogeyman he shits on everyone I won't listen to him"
Way to go, you sure showed me how I was wrong. Keep living on your bubble and ignoring exterior opinions. Come later to tell us how sucessful your green halflings made out of cheese are.
>>44323760
DnD halflings are just nomads that steal things.
Can easily be taken out, and no one would miss them.
Same with gnomes, only there because AD&D Dwarfs couldn't cast spells
I don't think I will make my dwarves goat-people, but having absorbed this thread, I will have them have hooves and horns (and horseshoe boots). Feet are delicate and undwarfy so hooves are much better, and the horns make horned Viking helmets actually make sense: those aren't part of the helmet, its actually her horns!
They will still, however, be bearded ale-drinking forge-working cavern-dwellers with a tendency for grumpiness and oaths.
>>44323787
The hill thing I never knew...wait a fucking minute why isn't that a common thing? That solves like half the logic-problems with dwarves and gives them an explanation for why they're like the sister race of humans.
>>44323732
>>44323760
>Cute bunny-eared idiots that try really hard to act smooth and professional
>The other races know it's all an act, but they play along because they try so very hard
>The fact they breed like, well, rabbits and might get angry if they're thrown out of their comfy but irrelevant positions is another reason
Question is, how would you restrict the birth rate of the Rabbitfolk? Would you castrate them? Encourage them to get fucked by Humans (which I doubt they can get pregnant) when they need to breed? Develop Puritan-level social norms around sexuality and romance, which the rabbitfolk would feel oh-so-compelled to follow?
>>44323796
'Cept that's not my point. Your point is actually pretty trash, the whole "Oh if it's different while still retaining a name, it must be shit. There is no way it can't be shit." And coming on to a thread just to be angry and shitty. I can listen to exterior opinions. Goatdwarves is an exterior opinion, kobolds not being evil is an exterior opinion. My whole post was explaining you're just being rude as hell for...something that can really be explained and discussed really calmly. People don't like getting yelled at, be nice. Be chill. Be one with the cosmos breh.
I came here to talk about dwarves, but I can see you guys are busy being pedantic losers, so I guess I'll just leave you to it for now.
>>44323787
How about this:
They're still renowned miners and metallurgists, but their mines and their farms are located further down the mountains in a highlands sort of area under their domain. Some of their bigger cities are on the crags and cliffs because that is where their temples, monasteries and holy places are located?
>>44323850
While I aint a fan of the bun-folk being ditzy, other people seem to love it! So let's roll with it. I'd say you can restrict their breeding ether by: A breeding season, OR: The lord/duke/king/emprah/local dude with the hat is like "ATTENTION ALL RABBITFOLK. BY ORDER OF HIS HIGH EXCELLENCY: ME. YOU MUST NOW RESTRICT YOUR BREEDING OR GET BOOTED OUT." and given how they just love to rub ears with the 'higher' races they'll listen.
>>44323820
There's a certain romanticism of the Dwarves that hollow out a fucking mountain for their home.
>>44323881
I can see that. The lowlands are theirs, and the high mountains and the skies are their gods turf.
Mystical AND logical explanations for a mundane problem yo.
>>44323820
I'd argue the majority of Dwarves live and work in the hills, but everyone knows about the Mountain Halls because they're just so damn impressive.
Hollowing out a mountain wouldn't be because that's just what Dwarves do, it would be the equivalent of Humans building a big fancy castle to protect their farmlands.
>>44323693
>What I'm condemning is retards like you that simply paint elves blue and give them superpowers while still calling them elves. If you want to be creative, be actually creative and make your own race.
Maybe they just wants the elves to be blue, my dude. Why does the blue skin have to mean anything? There's nothing necessarily creatively bankrupt about that. It's just a minor change for aesthetic purposes.
>>44323859
Lol'd.
My point isn't that they're always trash, I must have explained it poorly. My point is that it's so easy to miss the point and make unnecessary changes that it's easier to make a new race. Everyone has a different threshold of what is and what isn't a certain race, so while you might like your idea, it can just sound dumb for other people. That's why, instead of getting rid of a well-known race that many people love to put a hit-or-miss test, I suggested creating a new name and letting both live in the same world.
A change can be good, yeah, but you won't know until you test it. If you want to make a big change, you're better off testing in a well-known environment. You can't infer much about a test when you take out the base used to judge said test.
I have a Dwarven city built inside and on top of a hollowed-out desert plateau... Dwarf-goats wouldn't be out of place there.
>>44323850
>>44323891
Steering this back toward less... magical... areas:
Rabbitfolk have large, large families and do breed quickly, but not so quickly that it becomes a problem. They all tend to enter into service positions due to their extremely social and extroverted personalities and their natural inclination to emulate uppercrusty human behavior. Butlers, maids, bookkeepers, store clerks, delivery agents, personal assistants and the like.
They are essentially living in their own little Dickensian Sugarbowl world.
>>44324077
Interesting point, but when do we get rabbit wizards who pull themselves out of hats?
>>44324077
>A race of dumb but endearingly earnest White Rabbit butlers and cheerful cockney maids.
>>44324182
Hhmmm...
>>44318598
Because dwarves are shit in any incarnation.
>>44323850
>>44324077
Oh my god they're an entire race of pic related.Oppai included.
>>44323912
The entirety of the mountain range belongs to Goatfolk, from their terraced farmlands in the foothills to their mines in the mountainsides to their shrines and monasteries on the very peaks.
>>44324149
That's just the sort of delightful mishap that would be likey to occur with Rabbitfolk entertainers.
>>44324182
Exactly this.
>>44324077
>Steering this back toward less... magical... areas:
>animal people thread
Yeah right.
Alright we have psuedo-asian dorfgoats and sortaditzy rabbit butlers. Where do we go from here?
>>44324077
>Rabbitfolk have large, large families and do breed quickly, but not so quickly that it becomes a problem. They all tend to enter into service positions due to their extremely social and extroverted personalities and their natural inclination to emulate uppercrusty human behavior. Butlers, maids, bookkeepers, store clerks, delivery agents, personal assistants and the like.
>>44324347
Why does the whole world have to follow this? I know there are furries in this thread and this is the number 1 problem with you shits, you cannot let anything exist in a vacuum. You don't have to have animal people fucking everywhere, even if you have dwarf goats. This is what fucked the universal setting.
>>44324365
What are you even on about?
>>44324245
Oh boy a race of Moe Uguu Animu Bitch #664466!
>>44324347
Let's not get crazy with creating more beastfolk races. I'd rather explore the two we've been talking about in more depth.
>>44324534
Honestly, I think it would be interesting to include a Lizardfolk and Leonine race as well.
By that point, you could just have Humans and it would be fun.
What if
what if
guys
what if we
guys
what if we combine goat people, rabbit people and dwarves?
>>44324581
WHAT TALK OF MADNESS IS THIS!?
>>44324534
And by "what more" I meant like, in terms of the setting in general. Should have specified, my bad.
>>44324575
What about a race where humans developed on a seperate island country thing like englang, and then as they spread out in steamboats and shit over the wide ocean they discovered a strange and magical land where BEASTS walk like MEN. Boom.
>>44324612
>>44324149
The Rabbitfolk were perhaps not one of the setting's natural species, but were created accidentally. A large number of common rabbits being used by the Academy of Arcane Arts to test various different magics escaped into the wild and breed their intelligence and physiological changes into the native rabbit population, resulting in Rabbitfolk that the Humans feel somewhat responsible for and who in turn look up to the Humans for guidance.
>>44324751
That is somewhat interesting.
>>44323850
You hire lynxfolk mercenaries and bountyhunters to cull their numbers.
Because tiny goat people is too much of a fun idea to be combined into the great mental image that is dwarfdom.
You are now thinking of Dwarves with Wool for beards.
>>44325210
I like this thought
>>44323850
Teach them ANAL
>>44326925
Wait wouldn't bunnyfolk be really small and not able to fit thaaaAAAAAAOHGAAWWD
Discussion on beast races will always devolve into sexualization. Fact.
>>44327693
Discussion on anything will always desolve into sexualization. Fact.
>>44322923
>That's not what I'm saying at all
Let me make it simpler since you have so much trouble understanding, dear sir.
Words in our vocabulary exist to convey a message, an image quickly, clearly. When someone talks about dwarves to someone else, the first thing that comes to mind is a smaller, thicker human with a long-ass beard and who's probably chugging beer or digging a hole in the middle of a mountain.
Now I'll get to my point: you are Not smart by suddently saying "Hey, let's just change this word and make it mean something different. Goat people!"
That's not how the world works: it doesn't bend to your whims and desires: dwarves are an archetype of a creature to make people understand really quickly what they are talking about.
If you want to have a different race in your setting, that's fine. If you want them to adopt the mannerism of a stereotypical dwarf, that's also fine.
What is really fucking dumb on your part is that you call them dwarves when they aren't, confusing people and having to waste everyone's time by explaining your dumb idea of subverting an entire widely-accepted archetype into something different.
>>44322472
>They'd be more dangerous too - antlers are obviously natural weapons, but they also drastically improve the sense of hearing of the deer/moose
Wait, what? How the fuck does that work?
>>44328881
> When someone talks about dwarves to someone else, the first thing that comes to mind is a smaller, thicker human with a long-ass beard and who's probably chugging beer or digging a hole in the middle of a mountain.
One problem with your argument that this isn't immediately true in all cases for what you refer to as the "core" races. For example, if I were to say something about "elves" to my parents, they're just as likely to think of the cherry little guy who lives in a tree on the front of the Keebler's cookies packages as they are Legolas -- or, considering the time of year, one of Santa's helpful workmen. Similarly, some people think of "dwarves" and think of Snow White, not Gimli. Words exist to convey concepts, but because of how languages work and how words acquire connotations that can vary greatly those concepts are anything but immutable.
Dwarves and elves as concepts don't exist on some kind of ineffable plinth for /tg/. They're a touchstone, one that can be healthily deviated from with "twists" without effecting the actual nature of their "core race." Yes, it would be ridiculous to make those "twists" so extreme that they wouldn't resemble their origin at all anymore, but that's not what OP is doing.
>dear sir.
Are you TRYING to get people to post fedoras at you?
>>44318598
Because Goats don't really strike me as Cave dwellers engaged in gang based civil war
>>44321716
Wow, That makes elves actually sound kinda manly for once
>>44318598
>>44318922
Sauce?
>>44318598
I'm not a furry.
>>44324365
Having brain problems is what makes someone a furry, are you surprised that manifests in other ways? Not being able to tolerate/like humans or near-human races in their fantasies is super common with western furries.
Japs, funny enough, love mashing humans furries and monstergirls all into one world and just having them live together for some reason.
>>44318598
>Why aren't your Dwarves tiny goat people /tg/?
because there are already goat people in my setting. I mean how confusing would THAT be?! to have two different anthropomorphic goat races that are totally unrelated but look exactly the same?
>>44323881
I Say they aren't renowned miners and metallurgists but their masonry is what is renowned.
Imagine a cities carved directly out of a mountain spiraling down to the bottom with aqueducts spiraling down along side.
>>44330920
So if you like Dwarves, you want to have to have sex with squat bearded men?
Piss-poor logic.
>>44331752
Pretty much only furries go out of their way to make, and especially turn established races into, animal people.
>>44324847
So in a sense, you forgo using your own military and turn the various furry folk against each other? Why not make it a profitable venture as well, and sell them weapons and loans to pay for more weapons?
>>44331764
Dwarf is a label, same with Elf. DnD Elves bear almost no resemblance with "established" Tolkien elves
>>44331980
You people are running off of DnD elves and you know it.
>>44331764
The only people who complain about established races being changed, are the ones who want to have sex with them.
Keep your disgusting beard fetish out of my RPG's, pervert.
>>44332416
You furries are really bad at deflection.
Why have short, drunk hairballs when you can have subterranean Persian machinists?
>>44318881
The hooves would get old really fast if you had anything but dirt floors/
I want to_peta sheep
>>44334055
Go away, Welshman.
>>44334213
she was legal in sheep years I swear.
>>44318598
goats a cute
>>44334055
I've done it.
It's everything you've ever imagined.
Go to a petting zoo.
>>44329323
The same way those musical toothbrushes work: sound travels better through solids.
>>44324355
ah, so they are catholics.
>>44333703
i would play chess with a short iranian. sure.
>>44318598
Finally my ban expired.
Hokay. I used to work on a setting with animal people as different fantasy nationalities. In it goats were not-Slavs (Goassacks), pigs were not-Norse (Swikings) and sheep were oft enslaved short jungle people with filed teeth (Sheepmies).
But I wanted it to be a comic and had trouble building my main character, who was a goat woman raised by Assai (a not-African donkey tribe).
I think an animal race between normal men and elves and whatnot could work.
>>44322421
>>44322428
Deer. Like someone mentioned, MtG did that once. Probably their most interesting elves.
>>44338818
They aren't short, in fact they're generally considered to be decently tall.
>>44323520
>Why are they renowned metallurgists? Why are they renowned miners?
Doesn't have to be a racial thing.
Goats like rocky places.
It happens that these rocky places are rich in ore, and goats have the easiest time reaching these spots that are good for mining.
If goats are smart enough, a mining culture develops. Soon after, a metalworking culture develops too.
>>44318753
> mountain goat people
They could be to regular dwarfs what dark elfs are to elfs.
Also, the heroes' (and players') first introduction to them should be seeing a couple of children playing jumprope on a sheer cliff wall.
>>44329323
They work something like a parabolic reflector.
>>44341203
Not hardcore enough.
>>44322101
Because his were actually good.
>>44343226
>Perfect Mary Sues better than all other races at everything
>Good
>>44343251
>Perfect Mary Sues better than all other races at everything
Dwarves. Not elves.
>>44343331
Dwarves are literally undone by greed and selfishness at every turn in LoTR, and are inferior smiths and miners to the Elves.
>>44343346
Because that is the fate of the Jew when compared to the Germanic Westerner.
>>44340131
>ban evading
>posting furshit
enjoy your next ban, idiot
>>44343346
Fëanor couldn't get shit from Galadriel, though, when Gimli managed to get three of her hairs. That shit's significant.
>>44346159
Galadrial liked short men. You can't knock her fetish here of all places.
>>44323200
>build stairs
Lol wut? Have you seen these goats in weird places? They don't need stairs. Stairs just let enemies get in.
Just posting this: goat aliens from Wander Over Yonder.
>>44321755
So all these years those *insert nationality* have actually been breeding dwarves instead of just having a rather disturbing and /d/like relation to their farmanimals?
This changes everything
...
So, what about those sheepf.. Welsh and New Zealanders? Have they been producing elves?
>>44318598
Because my Dwarves ride giant goats instead.
>>44348169
>Not having your goat-dwarf ride goats
What kinda pleabian are you?
>>44348322
>not having your human-dwarf ride human
One that's not fucking retarded.
Sure is a lot of autism in this thread.
Dwarf= monarchy + caves + honor
Goatpeople= communism + agriculture + loyalty to the pack
Bunnypeople= servants
Wild Boar people = angry primitive barabarians
>>44318598
I think it'd be a cool idea to have each race resemble/represent an animal in the Chinese zodiac, come to think of it. Goat/sheep dwarves, rat halflings, snake goblins, pig ogres... could be interesting.
>>44323520
>You know who else lived in mountainous regions? The Inca. Did they become "renowned miners and metallurgists?" No.
Yes they did... they were famously known for their gold and silver craft. Not much has survived, unfortunately, so you don't see a lot of it in museums and such, but there are plenty of records indicating their metalwork.
>>44352718
The Inca were fun in that, while the majority of their metallurgy and that of other American cultures was decorative, the Inca were finally, finally getting around to (regularly) making metal tools for practical purposes. Meaning that they were on the cusp of their own little copper/bronze age. It would've been interesting to see how that developed, since that would no doubt echo down the trade networks to Mesoamerica and eventually North America.
My dwarves are too busy being deep gnomes to have cute horns and widdle hoovies.
>>44352498
>not pig halflings
