So. I'm putting together a Succubus as a PC for Pathfinder. Let me give some background to this decision.
Sitting talking with several friends discussing fun cursed items. Girdle of Opposite Gender being a classic. Hear tell of a Helm of Opposite Allignment. Come up with idea.
Succubus is summoned by mistake of a dude into dark magics and collecting enchanted items of intrigue. Manipulates him, drains him dry, and sees ornate helm on a shelf. Can't figure out what it does, puts it on for a giggle. Boom, Lawful Good. Is now disgusted with herself for all the things she's done up until this point to mortals through the years. Runs and doesn't look back. Wants to redeem herself by spreading the tales of great heroes and aiding in the adventures of new ones, possibly becoming one herself. All in all she wants to feel properly 'redeemed' for the shit she did and what she is.
Found a DM starting up a campaign willing to take it. We've decided to go with -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Charisma. Gets to keep Draining Kiss as a once per day (going up every 3 levels a use per day), and chopping off Profane Gift. Keeps Change Shape as spell like ability. Reasoning is we're doing a low level campaign and don't want to bother with CR conversion.
As a drawback for being a LG Succubus, DM set ruling where she has to make a daily Will save to stave off sexual frustration. Totes okay with this, find it hilarious. If she fails she has to seek out a willing 'partner' to help her relieve or start taking save and check penalties. Said I can yadda yadda the gist of it should the rest of the party not be comfortable with it, so, all good.
All in all fits in perfectly with the overall theme of the campaign he's setting up, which is 'redemption'.
Decided Bard because we're already going to have a Paladin and want to keep some level of party diversity.
So main problem I'm having is what KIND of Bard do I make? Buff/support bard? Dervish Bard? Rock goddess? Diva? Suggestions, le go.
>>44279483
>badass horns
>helm
choose one
>>44279524
Honestly this is what took me out of it.
Otherwise kinda cool OP but yeahyeah alignment is dumb.
>>44279483
Bards can't be lawful
First off, I want to state that I have no problem with your character, background, or choice of class. Any criticism I may put down is merely devil's advocate.
That said, your character is a succubus. An ageless entity who will eventually get bored after eons of life. You could just as easily have her do whatever shenanigans the party gets up to because it amuses her. She might even find it amusing to pretend to be a stalwart companion for the paladin and co. all in the hopes of seducing one of them away from their righteous quest and into her panties. You seem to have a thing going that works for your group so good for you.
On the subject of bard type, why not play a mediator? A grand orator who can use her silver tongue (and maybe some well timed cleavage) to talk her way out of sticky situations.
I would also advise that you work out with your DM some sort of marking or token that your character carries that says she's sanctioned or something like that (preferably from a major church of good like Pelor or Heironius).
Daily will save to not seek out a sex partner isn't really that much of an impediment imho. A night with a succubus is rumored to be the best in one's life, regardless of sexual orientation. There should be no shortage of prostitutes or even volunteers willing to have a night of amazing sex with a guarantee that they keep their soul at the end.
>>44279540
>OP said pathfinder
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard
Allignment: Any.
Check yer facts before you type, lazy ass.
>>44279540
see
>>44279528
A) Alignment post 3.5 is more of a suggestion than a hard rule
B) you're wrong on every level imaginable and some not imaginable
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard
C) Even if there was an alignment restriction, the DM is willing to go far enough to allow a Succubus as a race, I'm sure they can file the serial numbers off a class and call it something else.
I like this idea
Then again I like anything with big tits
>>44279545
more thoughts:
I would recommend either the Celebrity (fluffed as her natural charisma affecting people) or Demagogue (fluffed as her becoming an activist against her former evil ways).
If you go the Demagogue route it gets even funnier when she is extolling the virtues of moderation in sex and then fails her will save and has to go have an all night sexathon.
>>44279483
If you are older than thirteen, then may vipers eat your loins
>>44279483
So as soon as she ever lifts the helmet or get it lifted from her she's back to her old, evil self? That's not real redemption.
Also there's the risk to run fast into the magical realms of your DM and/or players...
>>44279483
>DM set ruling where she has to make a daily Will save to stave off sexual frustration
Either magical realm or humor sense of a 13 years old
>>44279650
Nah, the way the helm works in Pathfinder is even if the helm is taken off only a Wish or Miracle can change the allignment back. So while not stated in OP, likely the Succubus didn't keep the helm.
>>44279650
I believe there is a chanse for the aligment change from the Helm of Opposite Aligment to become permanent.
Which gives me a funny image of the party tieing up the succubus or other villain and repeatedly putting the helmet on and off untill the effect sticks.
>>44279679
The Allignment Change IS permanent on a failed save, which the OP is implying the Succubus failed. At least as far as Pathfinder goes.
OP here
>>44279686
>>44279675
Correct
>>44279652
Eh, I didn't mind it much at the end of the day. Can't vouch for the humor range of my DM, might be a little immature.
>>44279588
>>44279545
Being a mediator sounds fair, Celebrity sounds interesting and Demagogue sound like a lot of fun, I'll take some time to look at them.
>>44279652
Think of it like a Trouble in FATE.
>>44279483
GM rules that helm of opposite alignment doesn't work on beings from the positive or negative plane.
Because it just wouldn't be a succubus if she was LG: a being of pure evil can't be good. It's an oxymoron and impossible.Because I as a GM say so; I make the rules and laws around magic and the creatures of My setting.
Then there's also the fact that >>44279524 mentioned. Horns=no helm.
1/10, wouldn't party with.But this is just my opinion: if your group likes your concept for whatever reason, go for it.
>>44280424
>GM rules that helm of opposite alignment doesn't work on beings from the positive or negative plane.
Good thing succubi aren't from either of those planes>homebrew settings
>>44280481
>that spoiler
Keep us updated with the trainwreck that is your homebrew
>>44279483
when i first started reading the background a cringed but as i read further i liked it the wanting to earn a redemption angle is interesting.
good thing you went with bard though only way to make that character concept work.
i understand pathfinder has a lot of fancy magical instruments may want to look into that
>>44280424
There are rules in the monster manual for handling outsiders of alignments from their subtype
>>44279483
Reminds me that I want to play a succubus thrallheard sometime, diplomancer/leader classes fit succubi really well
>>44280424
>>44279652
>>44279623
All of this hate.
>How dare you have a character concept that I can construe as squick if I squint and tilt my head just right.
Grow up. The adults are having a conversation. Go back to /b/ you purile fools.
>>44279524
>>44280424
I'm pretty sure that they can just wave off the Helm being designed in a way that it's able to be worn even for a Succubus? The 'design' of a helm not allowing to be worn because of horns is as simple a fix as 'due to it's ornate design it's easy to wear even for one with horns!'
Are you people so narrow-minded and braindead you can't think outside the box on such a small detail? Especially considering the flexible nature of the PC concept to begin with? Give some real criticism, or go waste your time elsewhere.
Honestly, if you're wanting to go with a Succubus who wants to redeem herself for being a manipulative soul-draining cunt, why not make her a Celebrity and go with a Christian Rock/Metal vibe and take up a stringed instrument? Preach to people your new gospel of chastity and good will towards the masses, hold massive concerts, earn a name for yourself through song, kind gestures, and adventures.
>>44284421
Magical items adjust themselves to be wearable by RAW, horns will do jackshit to stop them
>>44280424
Someone has never played planescape or read the book of exalted deeds. Good aligned demons are very possible.
>>44284786
Magic items, yo.
>>44279483
If you're looking for non combat, I'd just go with singing for perform and possibly an archetype that'd allow you to be the mediator of the group.
If you're looking to actually fight, I'd just go Dervish Dancer. Scimitar, Razor's Kiss (basically keen for free), Rein of Blows (basically haste).
World's your oyster, just depends on if you want to bring the love, or bring the pain.
The thing about helms of opposite alignment is that they don't really make much sense when thinking about what they make the PERSON think.
Sure, slap a helm of opposite alignment on someone. How do they treat their former allies? Their superiors? Their friends?
Why has their outlook changed? Without a reason to do something different, it's hard to work out they will act, how they look at situations. Why did they become evil to begin with, and what reasons will they do acts that will make them be good now?
It's something to think about. Something a bit horrific to think about.
>>44286423
It's fucking magic. That's how it makes sense.
Look at how they treated people. Treat them the opposite. Boom, problem solved.
>>44279483
A suggestion bard: one that focuses on charm and suggestion spells.
>>44279483
What is /tg/'s obsession with redeemed succubus bitches? It's not a clever or original subversion and it's always super contrived
Come back to me when you've made a Balor Bard
>>44284045
>squick
Definitely 13 years old.
>>44286928
In the novel I'm working on the main characters have this complex plot to redeem a succubus with a purrifying arrow relic so she can give help them take down the Big Bad because she knows all his secrets.
Long story short, they miss and hit this butt ugly wart-covered brute who guards the door. It works just as well, and he becomes a niche poet.
>>44286561
But WHY do you treat people differently? You would see someone. Why are you treating someone different? You say "it's magic" but you don't just say "I would have walked past all these guys before and seduced them so now I will... Kill them and not fuck the bodies".
You can treat people in more than just a binary fashion, and the reasons why you do so are multivaried and differing you need to know why you're doing things differently, and what the magic is making you think.
That is what you need to consider, and then work out how your character will act.
>>44287093
You're trying to think of it like a psychological brainwashing, think of it more like a constant Charm spell.
>>44287120
And it hates you, anon.
>>44287093
Your outlook on life, the universe, and everything has been forcibly and magically warped into difference because a cursed magical item. That's fucking why, you dense fuck.
It literally says you become the opposite alignment. You become pretty much the complete opposite kind of person you were before, and depending on how it's handled you may or may not even remember how you used to be. If you don't, then, well then, there's your excuse. If you do remember, then you're just horrified by all the bad (or nice, depending on your alignment change) things you used to do and try not to do them anymore. You're overcomplicating a situation that does not need it to the extent you're dragging it to.
>>44287208
Oh, please. If your experience up to this point is that trying to help people has been giving you nothing but heartache and the only way to survive is to fuck other people over, then turning you "good" would either have to a: change your memories, b: do something to make you not use your past experience, or c: force you into suicidal tendencies. Each of these would be treated differently; you'd not recognise past acquaintances in the first, the second would have you acting like mental trauma, and the last would be some sort of crippling suicidal behaviour - that last one is particularly relevant because as a force for evil that sucks people's souls out the best course of action a succubus to do as a force for good is suicide.
How exactly it works is important. We know what the results are, but HOW opposite it is.
Does the new being think lying, cheating, betraying in order to do something "good" is ok? Is acting to the letter of the law and not doing all the evil things like the above a good thing, even though she's still following the same end goals as before? Is it a mixture?
Good and evil have all sorts of variations between them, and it's a good idea to consider how your character would act now, and how they'd proceed.
>but why are you overthinking things
Because, you fat fuck, that gives your character some long term goals and objectives. Is your character horrified by what they've done? Perhaps they don't want those past memories before. Perhaps she's traumatized by all that shit, or now she's more acting numbly and emotionlessly, repressing the being she was in the past. It gives all sorts of quirks and interesting things. That's why you might want to think about the effects.
>>44279483
Christian Rock
>pick unrelated
>>44287741
All the shit you're trying to throw out there is completely dependent on the alignment that used to be there. If you used to lie and cheat to do things (chaotic) you don't do that shit anymore (lawful). If you used to hurt people (evil) you try to prevent them from hurting or help them (good). Combine those if applicable. Whatever the source of how they act, the forcible alignment change is even more powerful a source.
>>44279483
>Succubus character, but don't worry, she's LG
Ok, as long as it's not just to insert your fetishes into the..
>Has to make a daily will save or has to fuck something
Get the fuck out.
>>44288000
>reading comprehension
DM's ruling, not his
>>44288070
>imblyign he didn't wont this all arogn
>>44288000
OP here, DM's ruling, and yeah had a quick message chat with the DM and he's dropped the idea of the will save.
>>44279575
I am a 38 year old man. I weigh 467 pounds. My tits are huge. If you wan to play with them, keep me busy with a sack of White Castles and we'll call it a fair trade.
>>44287157
Part of a helm of opposite alignment is it makes you hate the idea of going back to your previous alignment
>>44288142
You're still gonna fuck with everything. You already said you found the idea "funny" and immediately associated Succubi with wild crazy sex and nothing else.
I am so very disappointed.
>>44287741
>If your experience up to this point is that trying to help people has been giving you nothing but heartache and the only way to survive is to fuck other people over
Some people are still good despite bad things happening when they try to do good.
>b-but that makes no sense!
People are surprisingly bad at being rational.
>>44288367
OP again
Meh, I found it funny, sure, but I'm not actually going to fuck everything. The occasioanl sex bit in a campaign I'm cool with, and the will save was just a stupid idea that added a bit of a 'oh no, what will the succubus do now?!'
Dumb idea, and it's been dropped. Not keeping it. And in fact a lot of the responses to this thread have given me great ideas on how to flesh out the characters personality to a lot more then 'two dimensional fucktoy demon that happens to be LG'.
In our Pathfinder campaign, the whole "slap a helm of opposite alignment on the demon!" thing was thwarted when the GM ruled that a creature with a Lawful / Chaotic / Good / Evil TYPE (not just an Alignment) can't have their alignment shifted by mere "normal" magic items. So putting that helm on a demon in our game would only create a demon with a helmet on its head...
That said, there was a succubus who had her alignment changed (the Evil part to Good, anyway) when a Paladin's holy sword was so blessed by Iomedae not very long after her apotheosis.
The succubus was overwhelmed by the sudden understanding of he suffering she had wrought and spend about a century in tearful mourning to the point that the fey in the forest she fled to called the The Crying Woman. Their tales made many believe that the Crying Woman was fey, as well.
Then, after a century of tearful regret, she was touched by Sarenrae and told what she must do to be redeemed and receive salvation. It involved helping the Paladin PC on the quest laid out for him by the campaign.
It was a VERY modified version of the Kingmaker campaign that mixed in elements of the Wrath of the Righteous campaign, as well. Ultimately, the PC's lost their kingdom but helped to defeat Baphomet and end the 5th Mendevian Crusade with a victory so, all in all, it was a successful campaign.
So can I play an LG necromancer now cleric lich?
>>44291242
No. Everyone wants a redeemed succubus because then they can be sexy sluts. There's nothing sexy about a lich and its even worse if the lich is slutty.
>>44291639
>implying I don't have a purity fetish
My redeemed Succubi are faithful followers of Sarenrae who are into intense hand holding.
>>44279483
The butthurt here is real, OP. You've succeeded in more ways then one. Some sort of Christian rock star of sorts. Go with what feels reasonable for you to RP (a challenge, but not something that's not fun).
No idea for builds, I don't know 3.5/Pathfinder.
>>44291639
>slutty lich
Oh shit I'm laughing too hard
>>44284421
>>44284786
For fucks sake, the fucking helmet can be a god damn circlet so you don't have to worry about horns.
And I'm pretty sure there is some sort of enchantment on helms of opposite alignment that makes the change permanent or something? So there is zero need to worry about it coming off.
>>44279483
>Succubus Bard
>For when you need to fuck absolutely everything.jpg
>>44297401
Add on a few levels of thrallheard for the fuck all the things factor
>>44297617
Think Thrallherd needs some psionic talent to qualify? Or did DSP make a magic-compatable one?
>>44291242
Actually not that difficult, though NG would be easier in a 3.5 setting since Libris Mortis offers an undead-friendly deity of love called the Evening Glory who venerates love beyond life's end.
>>44291639
A lich has enough spells to keep themselves physically appealing if they so choose, and if you Really want to go crazy with the ye olde LG you could even have it be a cleric that venerates Chaste love.
>>44288470
You said you wanted to emphasize redemption right? What sort of redemption are you looking for? Songhealer is a good start if you just wanna go for a supportive healer type, mending wounds, but I figure you'll want to be more meaningful than just that (though that doesn't stop you from taking Songhealer archetype if it fits your party's needs.)
If the party is clearly acting as a force of Tactical good in the world, martially striking down evil entities you could consider the Arbiter to share teamwork feats while later bringing fights to an abrupt end with conciliatory diplomacy.
You could go in as a Daredevil to inspire courage and wonder with your antics where once you left only lust and misery in your wake.
You could join the Dawn-whatever-they-ares as a Dervish of the Dawn. Think they're good aligned but I don't know Golarian that well yet.
You could go the shaky rout of a Detective; perhaps just looking into the love lives of troubled partners to see what could be done to salvage relationships and fostering real love, or risk going too far and using your inquisitive talents as a vigilante perhaps reaching Big Brother levels of insight and influence as your network of spies works to prevent evil...and hopefully not cause more harm than good in doing so.
Maybe those old habits die hard, even as you're trying to do good in the world; the Negotiator will make your illusions and deceptions more viable but is a slippery slope
>>44297792
That said, you'll want to think about how you want to seek your redemption. After that you can pick your means and tools and tricks and training that'll move you toward that goal. Until you have those sorted out, you'll have a bit of difficulty sorting out specifics like which skills to focus on or what feats or spells you'll want on hand, though you can certainly just stick to a theme on those of replacing the succubus' natural SLAs with bard spells and class features and so forth.
When in doubt, crafting feats work nicely and can help you adjust yourself later via stat boosts and utility items if your initial character options aren't carrying you where you want to go. Crafting feats, a little touch of 3.x and the Dragon Disciple PrC turned my bard into a fiery meat grinder of anything that stood in melee with 'em.
>lost any good example pics when my hard-drive died a few months back so here's that sexy lich.
>>44284045
The only interesting thing about this character is that it's a succubus. Playing such exotic races is just a crutch for bad or lazy roleplayers to get interest out of WHAT their character is instead of WHO their character is.
>>44279483
>If she fails she has to seek out a willing 'partner' to help her relieve o
Absolutely not
>>44297867
It can be a good starting point to frame a character.
Once the player stops thinking of the person as a
>'two dimensional fucktoy demon that happens to be LG'
And more of a person, it can provide entertainment as much as any other character.
How about Songhealer + Demagogue for this bard character?
>>44280605
i should clarify i dident cringe at the start because sucubus bard it was more that i was expecting somebody to go really far out of there way to explain something that doesent need much explanation
but op did it well
>>44279483
And at some point during the campaign someone removes the helm and you fuck off elsewhere.
>>44297792
>Or did DSP make a magic-compatable one?
Honestly it probably wouldn't be too hard to homebrew one, but I don't think you need too heavy of a dip to get it
>>44299617
If people have no idea how those things work? You put it on once and it's effect is permanent
>>44300029
Just replace psionic mind control with magical and you've got it
