Topic: Why are Criminals the slowest runners?
//Snippet
>What is Android: Netrunner?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAslVfZ9p-Y
>Android Netrunner Official FFG News & Spoilers:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?etyn=1&ecan=197&epn=0
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/24049/netrunner-spoilers
>Floor rules
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/24/install-new-security-measures/
>Official FAQ, Compendium on rulings, and common mistakes
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/android-netrunner/support/FAQ/Android-Netrunner%20FAQ.pdf
http://ancur.wikia.com/wiki/Project_ANCUR_Wiki
https://www.reddit.com/r/Netrunner/comments/2f8qj8/netrunner_beginner_faq/
https://www.reddit.com/r/postalelf/comments/2sm1d2/welcome_to_netrunner/
>Netrunner Card List and Data Pack Details:
http://netrunnerdb.com/
>RIP onosendai.com
http://acoo.net
http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrunner-card-spoilers
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/147101/android-netrunner-lcg-setlists/
>Deckbuilding Resources:
http://netrunnerdb.com/
http://netrunner.meteor.com/
http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrunner-deck-builder
http://www.littlechiba.com
http://acoo.net
>Articles and Blogs:
http://www.strangeassembly.com/tag/netrunner
http://netrunner-math.blogspot.ca/
http://teamcovenant.com/blog/category/netrunner-lcg/
http://stimhack.com/
http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/index.html/_/android-netrunner
>Podcasts/Videocasts:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/157566/android-netrunner-podcasts-metalist
https://www.youtube.com/user/ANRBadPublicity?feature=watch
Try "Why I run", great for prospective Runners looking for a hands-on demo on how Running works (replace the spaces by dots):
www nagnazul com/whyirun/whyirun.html
How do you deal with Architect?
>>44271100
Mimic
>>44271184
Even more than Yog, I think Mimic's power + 1 Inf combination is a bit much
>>44272458
>yfw I'm rolling Patch in my Weyland decks with STR3-4+ sentries
>yfw 1x Assassin
>yfw I still lose because I play Weyland
>>44272620
The struggle is real, tovarisch.
>>44272620
I know that feel - outside of archer Weyland's (often big) sentries don't get much of a look in, which is a shame for what is clearly an important part of their ice make up
Nebula is pretty nice though
Is there a list of what's in the draft lists that isn't on bgg?
>>44273326
Is it only the mumbad ones from the draft packs that are on bbg?
Thought experiment.
Say I have an Executive Boot Camp rezzed, and an Awakening Center with a bioroid hosted on it. At the start of my turn, I use EBC to rez the bioroid. This makes it no longer encounterable by the Runner, Lukas has already confirmed this part.
What happens if I Mutate it? I trash it. Where does the new ice go?
>>44273873
Can it be rezzed by anything other than Awakening Centre?
I don't think you can rez it normally, so using EBC seems like a similar no-go
>>44273920
Yes, EBC can rez the ice hosted on Awkening Center. But when it does so, you don't get the Awakening Center discount.
>>44273920
Yes, EBC can rez the ice hosted on Awakening Center. But when it does so, you don't get the Awakening Center discount. And it no longer becomes encounterable
>>44270109
Because their in-faction program tutoring is an event. Otherwise, you're forced to dig for them through Mr. Li, Masanori, which require their own credits and clicks to set up, or hoping you get what you need super early by playing Andromeda.
here's my question:
what's the meta like these days? From what I've heard post-worlds, HB with GFI is the new hotness? I've also read that Val with DLR is making the rounds. I'm assuming NBN Fast Advance and Butcher shop variants are still around, especially with 24/7 out with D&D on Corp side and Kate is still prevalent as ever.
Judge my noob deck for my noob meta
House of Pain 0.2
Jinteki: Personal Evolution
Agenda (11)
3x Fetal AI
3x House of Knives
3x Medical Breakthrough
1x Philotic Entanglement
1x The Future Perfect
Asset (23)
1x Adonis Campaign ••
1x Allele Repression
2x Cerebral Overwriter ••••
3x Hostile Infrastructure
1x Jackson Howard •
1x News Team ••
2x Project Junebug
2x Psychic Field
3x Server Diagnostics
2x Shi.Kyū
3x Shock!
1x Snare!
1x Zaibatsu Loyalty
Upgrade (1)
1x Shell Corporation
Operation (10)
3x Diversified Portfolio
1x Fast Track
3x Mushin No Shin
3x Trick of Light
Sentry (4)
3x Architect ••••• •
1x Susanoo-No-Mikoto
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Plan is to protect my assets not with ice but with hostile infrastructure. Get them out there, advance naked traps and agendas, protect centrals with architect.
>Endgame
Drop fetals in archive if the runner hasn't got many agendas, force runner there with susano o. Allele repression to place fetals there mid run if I have to.
Leave advanced agendas on table and score them only for win or kill.
Make runner take news teams, shi kyus and small agendas. Kill with philotic. Get philotic with fast track if necessary.
Git gud at bluffing and mind games
Dropped the game for a year, what is Weyland's position in the new meta ?
>>44276870
Not great. Though potentially just unexplored.
>>44273348
Third (SanSan) and fourth (Mumbad) are in the download section. First and second were posted on forums at least.
>>44276659
I smiled. It's a lovely idea of a deck, although I do think you'll find that, even for a low ICE build, you might just be too low on ICE.
I also think you're going to find you're low on econ - especially set up econ.
Diversified Portfolio will only pay off once you have et up enough; the money on Shell Corp is only available once you've taken it off it, which doesn't seem like much until you've been stuck in a rut with it as your only escape plan, that's when the asymmetric nature of the game strikes you and you see why a Kati for the corp is not as good as it is for the runner, even forgetting the trashing - also click intensive for a deck in which you're already going to spend so many clicks advancing things; you basically have nothing but the Hostile Infrastructure to give staying power to your Server Diagnostic.
Just play it and see how it goes though. Best way to learn.
>>44276870
I think the worst you can sum up Weyland's position right now is: whatever you're trying to do,it costs less to other factions to import the Weyland good stuff and do it than it costs Weyland to import from others.
And the things that Weyland has that cannot be imported, or not easily, are not seen as very desirable so far.
>>44278500
;-;
>Why are Criminals the slowest runners?
Supposedly, because they were meant to. The purpose of the criminals was supposed to be running less, but running more efficiently. Snipping from remotes. Getting more value out of running centrals.
Hence the original breakers and all the expose.
Never caught on. For reasons already discussed to death.
>>44278442
Thanks for the input!
I probably do need more econ. My reasoning with diversified portfolio is that after two turns I'll have enough remotes for them to be at least as efficient as beanstalks. As for the shell corp, I'll put it on a trap and use it more as bait than actual econ. The server diagnostics are an experiment, I'll only rezz them with hostile inf in the board. If the hostile is rezzed, it/they'll hopefully work as a deterrent. If unrezzed, I'll rezz for a nasty dilemma when the runner makes a trashing run. Mid or late game econ only with this strategy so I need some early econ I guess.
Test run is tomorrow evening so I'll find out then
>>44278873
There's an important distinction to be made out of that last sentence: just because we're not seeing it as desirable right now doesn't mean it's not.
I have testing been a lot with Weyland stuff recently - would that I could still experiment right now, but it'll be mid January before I can play again - and there's a lot of stuff we're collectively not seeing as desirable that I do think have potential.
Hell, playing against an event based-econ runner and rezzing two Students Loans mid-game to keep him out of reach of his money was pretty brutal. And I do think we have an angle here. Suffering from the fact that ICE cannot act as the taxing force it's supposed to be in current - or at least not as well as it's supposed to be, especially for Weyland.
But that's really something to keep in mind for future use.
Oh while I think about it, since we're talking more efficient running: I've been liking GlobalSec Security clearance with Kim. A lot.
Probably not going to be a competitive solution, but it plays really nice.
>>44278946
Have fun.
>>44278926
Never heard of those reasons. Could you elaborate or point me out to somewhere I can read them?
>>44279177
Well, from what I understand, the sniping remote strategy never catch up because FA was too big and common, it required a strategy more focused on pressuring centrals, particularly through R&D lock, than sniping agendas from scoring servers.
For this purpose, the masters were the anarchs. Through parasite, datasucker, fixed breakers, and medium they were able to lock R&D. They just needed the money to make it possible.
Unfortunately, what happened was that importing these cards to a criminal deck, which had money at spades, was easier than doing the reverse.
In the end, Criminals thrived to popularity for running aggressively thanks to their own economic resources and the anarch tools.
>>44276870
4 out of 4
Something about Hirewired IDs had been rubbing me wrong for awhile and I resently realized what. The art is far more grimdark cyberpunk rather than more approachable Cyber Noir.
>>44280708
grimdark cyberpunk? I don't see skulls and spikes in the pictures. All IDs seemed pretty noir to me.
>>44280708
Hirewire ?
>>44280060
Good summing up by the way.
I have this idea for an anarch deck.
The core concept would be to use hivemind and virus breeding grounds to boost the amount of tokens in all viruses, and then insta-parasite R&D server while doing medium digs.
Progenitor, Grimoire, and mimic included in the base plan ( >>44271100 ).
Anybody tried something similar?
>>44280958
I've seen it done before, it's pretty decent. Funnily, it's a Weyland deck that's your bane. Power Shutdowns make Hivemind + Progenitor sad. The main issue with the deck is drawing your pieces in the right order. I've seen it done with Chakana to slow down the Corp so they can't FA. It's worth a shot.
>>44280958
Yeah, people have. Interesting rig going with Parasite with clone chips - I've seen some people Paige the Parasite and other chosen copies of cards like that (like Medium) to fasten draw. Then Demo Run/Showing Off to maximize card access in one glory run turn.
I've played it with Incubator myself, was a lot of fun, pretty suicidal against some decks, but my version was a bit too slow for my liking.
Getting more clicks can be an issue, you want as much as you can cram in on turn. I didn't like Amped up in that configuration because you can't really afford to lose on sensitive card on that glory turn. Joshua seems like your best bet.
Something I like: Human First, because for once you have a decent idea of exactly when and around how many credits your going to get. Helps you setting up before that if the corp can score while you you do it.
>>44281059
Certainly, extra progenitors can protect the hivemind somehow, also scheherazade and harbinger, for additional cache+aesop combos.
>>44281067
Instead of Human First, maybe Power to the People.
>>44280795
He means Hardwired, the new draft packs which come with IDs
http://netrunnerdb.com/en/set/draft
I don't know I'd call them much darker than what we already have - the runner's art (reused from Stimhack, Inside Job and the Infiltration board game) shows people who are perhaps a little grittier than most of the runners, but there's still a few main ID's who are just as rough looking, to me at least - Ed Kim, Gabe and Geist at the very least
>>44281328
I was mainly talking about the Corp IDs. Their art looks otherworldly compared to the ones we had before.
>>44282114
I wouldn't say otherwordly. They look definitely Noir. Remind me of Blade Runner.
>>44282152
Well, Blade Runner is quite a bit darker than Android Universe.
>>44282287
Certainly, but it's far from grimdark.
>>44282114
I guess a little - Weyland's certainly looks odd, all on its own in an unfamiliar landscape, Jinteki's seems a bit darker than usual but pretty standard Jinteki otherwise, NBN's looks pretty noir-ish, given that it's almost monochrome and HB's looks pretty normal, though it is one of their less shiny IDs - however it has nothing on the Cybernetics Division
Speaking of card art.
Does anyone else wish we'd see more art featuring Runners in cyberspace like Explanatory Romp, Feint, Quest Completed, Code Siphon, and Echer?
>>44282152
Oh man that is art that speaks to me
>>44282442
>>44282442
Like this?
I guess it's quite a hard thing to portray, given that if you're running you're probably using breakers, and how they look in action with the runner and ice is hard enough to imagine, let alone draw
How usable is Yog?
>>44283164
Yes/10
But if you can splash for green, a shaper decoder might serve you better.
>>44282784
I wonder if that is Maxx's Avatar...
What are the best Weyland IDs?
The worst?
>>44281259
I prefer Human First here because it won't eat a click on your glory-runs turn, and it can benefit you before while the corp abuses your set up time to score.
>>44284548
I think the best at the moment is Blue Sun, with Gagarin and Titan after that.
Worst is hard to say - BWBI is a strong contender, only helping once per turn and only being useful with fairly large amounts of advancable ice, which is very mixed in quality, but GRNDL's double penalty of BP and influence make it a possibility too, despite the almost inevitably strong start (it's similar to NEXT that way)
>>44285019
Ok, thanks.
What makes Blue Sun so good?
>>44285180
The ability is good for a lot of reasons
Being able to pick up any rezzed card and gain the rez cost of said card means Blue Sun can always start their turn as much money as their most expensive rezzed card.
This can be used with cards that rez other cards for free or at a discount - as Weyland has both Oversight AI and some very expensive ice (such as pic related) this can result in huge profits unless the ice is broken before it can be picked up
The ability can be used to pick up an Adonis campaign (or similar) that is nearly empty and re-install it, where it will be full on being rezzed again, making it near infinite unless trashed.
Additionally, picking up ice will trash anything hosted on it, making any Parasite that doesn't kill ice immediately with datasucker essentially worthless.
Ice that has been rendered worthless - Hive with one or no subs, ice that has been Femme'd, or low strength code gates when yog is out - can also be picked up to recoup their cost and make putting other ice down cheaper.
This can also be useful for moving ice around, though that is cumbersome and rarely worth it.
Being rich, able to liquidate assets and ice, and semi-immune to parasite makes Blue Sun strong, though it's not without weaknesses - any advancable ice loses tokens when you pick it up (and space ice keeps the lowered rez cost as long as the tokens are there, so it's best to move advancements off them for two reasons) and cards with additional costs like Archer see little benefit from Blue Sun.
It's also vulnerable to ice destruction removing wealth you thought you could rely on, and clicks you spend re-installing things are clicks you aren't spending scoring or making money.
>>44285019
>GRNDL's worst
GRNDL ranked 2nd at Russian Nationals with the Modern Rigshooter. Pretty cool deck if you ask me, it is also recorded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ORTGkX_d0I
>>44285741
That does look cool, shame the example was of it losing, but cool nevertheless
I'm thinking of building an Accelerated Diagnostics deck that doesn't use the Power Shutdown combo. Instead I'll use Precognition and general RNG to try to hit operations. Which ID should I use, and which operations are of most general value to hit? Interns is definitely on the list. Maybe IG as ID so that even if I whiff, it'll still further my gameplan? But then I'll need more assets than operations...
>>44286190
>>44287058
heh heh
>>44287058
Hah, I know that game - my netrunner folder has that saved as GRNDL
>>44286978
AD RNG (49 cards)
Titan Transnational: Investing In Your Future
-- Agenda (8 cards)
2 Global Food Initiative
2 High-Risk Investment
1 Oaktown Renovation
3 Project Atlas
-- Asset (3 cards)
3 Jackson Howard
-- ICE (15 cards)
2 Asteroid Belt
1 Changeling
3 Fire Wall
2 Nebula
1 Orion
2 Shadow
1 Swarm
2 Woodcutter
1 Wormhole
-- Operation (23 cards)
3 Accelerated Diagnostics
2 Beanstalk Royalties
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns
2 Patch
2 Precognition
3 Restructure
3 Shipment from Kaguya
3 Shipment from SanSan
>>44288429
That's actually a really neat idea. The power of Space ICE is not its savings or moderate tax - its the speed. If it ever gets support, the key aspect of a winning space ice deck will be a good ice spread and speed.
>>44288841
I've been fooling around with advancable ice for a while, what do mean by the speed, with reference to his deck?
I find mine takes too long to set up some of the time, so you may have something there
>>44289080
Accelerated Diagnostics has the word 'accelerated' in it :^)
On a more serious note, I think what that anon is referring to with regards to my deck is the Shipments. They save money and save time, they speed up your space ice viability. Presumably, firing off an AD that doesn't completely whiff should speed up the game as well.
>>44289430
Yeah, I hadn't really considered using San San as well as Kaguya
Looking at the deck though I realise where a good bit of the slowing in mine will be coming from - I've got SEA Scorch as a backup kill condition, and that takes up a fair bit of space
>>44289751
Shipment from NeoTokyo when?
>>44289933
It's a box of snares
>>44290864
Shipment from NeoTokyo
0 cost - Jinteki
Operation
Search R&D for up to three cards and reveal two of them, then install one of them. Add the other two cards to HQ.
>>44291134
More like
Shipment from NeoTokyo
2 cost - Jintek 5 Inf
Operation
As an extra cost to play this event spend [Click] [Click].
Install the top 3 cards from RnD each in it's own new server and place 4 advancement tokens on each card. If any of these cards are trashed during the Runner's next turn discard X cards from the top of RnD. X is the number of Advancement counters on the trashed card.
Agendas installed this way can not be scored this turn.
>>44291313
>Mushin No Shin + Shipment from Mirrormorph
Overpowered, but I like it.
>>44291846
It's almost entirely ANG and if they trash 1 it is 4 cards milled. Trash them all and it is 12 cards (so almost a 4th of your deck).
It is a huge risk/reward "mind games" card.
>>44291313
The biggest issue is that this could result in an illegal game-state later with an installed operation.
>>44288429
Instead of just Precognition, I play a version with core Weyland using Anonymous Tip, Green, and Blue Level Clearances. Makes for 15 transaction operations and 9 cards that can potentially salvage things that would get trashed instead of your 2 Precog and 3 Jackson. Interns can't install things from R&D so it's not so hot during the resolution of Diagnostics for saving things you're going to lose, but saving that click is huge. I get that Jackson is there to clean up after messy Diagnostics, but I figure that you want to give yourself as many chances to avoid burning Jackson as possible. I also feel that I prefer to save the click used to install Jackson. Deck is probably worse for it, but Diagnostics into Hedge+Restructure+Anonymous Tip feels so good. Takes me back to Yu-Gi-Oh days where shit was busted.
>>44293833
Problem with the Transactions is that resolving a draw during AD screws AD up. My original build was in Core Weyland too, but I realised the influence was needed, so I moved to Titan.
So I have a question. I'm pretty new so be merciful if this is super dumb.
How many times can I use the ability on Pic related.
LIke, Imagine I have this and an overmind out against a Komainu with 4 cards in hand.
Can I spend 1 token and 3 credits, or do I have to spend 1 token, then 1 credit, then 1 token, then another credit?
This came up in a game with a friend recently and we decided the wording seemed to indicate the former (When you use the card, you've just broken a subroutine, so you can use it again), but I'm not sure if that's actually right or not.
>>44295569
It can trigger on itself
Check the faq for details but
>break one sub
>e3 and one cred to break another sub
>e3 and one cred to break another sub
>etc
>>44296247
Ok sweet. It is as good as I thought it was.
I'm slowly falling in love with Criminals. When I first looked at their stuff I really didn't get it, but it's just so fun to play with.
>>44295060
I think that's the point, so if you hit non-operations you can save them by ordering the transaction to draw the non-operations into HQ. I mean, if you are building around the idea that you'll be triggering random diagnostics, 3 jacksons just won't be enough.
>>44285019
GRNDL is good at what it does I think - rush - and unfit for mostly anything else at first sight. That's a good thing I'd say.
The ten influence is debatable. Putting things in the context in which the ID was released, that's probably one case of being overly cautious by designer, but most of us agreed with it at the time. At 15 influence in the more limited card pool that existed when it was announced, GRNDL looked a lot more intimidating, and there a was a clear collective sigh of relief when they scaled it down.
>>44300235
I think that's a fair assessment - GRNDL can rush pretty well, even if it is a victim of early cycle cautiousness (see also: the Haas half of C&C), though I wasn't in the game when it was released, so I can't really comment on how intimidating it might have looked
I wonder if GRNDL (and Reina) will get some new toys that coincide with the novella featuring Reina's investigation into Project Vulkan?
>>44300413
Was Reina vs GRNDL the main plotline of Spin cycle?
>>44300523
It was, though in a less direct way as Nasir's story was to Lunar.
>>44300413
>I wonder if GRNDL (and Reina) will get some new toys that coincide with the novella featuring Reina's investigation into Project Vulkan?
Totally wish, but I don't think so. Will be sad to see Caïssa go, really loved the base design idea. And I lie GRNDL, as someone else mentioned it's a corp ID that has a distinctive character.
>>44300578
I've just looked at the supposed release date for the novellas - like Fear the Masses (mumbad 6) it says "late 1st quarter 2016", which clearly isn't going to happen, but it does make me curious: it coincides with the end of mumbad and the handover to Damon as lead... who was the guy behind Caïssa.
Maybe GRNDL vs Reina will get a second look?
>>44300891
I'm of the cmp of "if they have to remove them, then they must remove them, or esle rotation will be meaningless.
Still I do hope the cycling ID will get some released cards allowing them to go with a swan song.
>>44301882
Yeah, I agree there - they should go, to make rotation seem true, but I was thinking in the cycles between now and then there's room to have another look at GRNDL's dirty work and Reina's cyber-soldiery asskicking
Keeping them in the background seems the most sensible thing to do, (as they're visible in other cards) so I don't see a problem with giving them a bit more - or at least something that, as you say, will allow them to have something of a swan song.
So best GRNDL would be Modern Rigshooter.
Best Reina, Headlock?
>>44307067
That's... one long turn to face.
>>44304618
The best ones are the ones that give you pleasure playing.
>>44307067
>Install Keyhole with Clone Chip
>Fuck
>Their
>Shit
>Up
>>44307205
The amount of shuffling in one turn, I bet your opponent wants to hit you by the end of it.
>>44307067
Wait 17 clicks?
How?
>>44307442
I used to run a deck designed to break people's will at tournaments by forcing them to shuffle.
I'd demand they do a full shuffle each time and after the 5th or 6th I'd make a judge watch to ensure they are doing it fair.
I had made 7 people quit store championships under the crushing heel of my Keyhole deck.
>>44307551
4 base
+9 from 3x Hyperdriver
+2 from 2x All-Nighter
+2 from Amped Up
----
17
>>44307624
WE CAN GO DEEPER
4 base
+9 from 3x Hyperdriver
+3 from 3x All-Nighter
+6 from 3x Amped Up
+3 from 3x Stim Dealer
+1 from Joshua B.
+1 from Rachel Beckman
----
27
Install Keyhole from Clone Chip, Pop DDOS and run the 1 ICE RnD 27 times.
>>44307750
Oh my god, that's sick.
>>44307750
I don't think you can fit all this in one deck.
3x Hyperdriver and 3x All-Nighter is already 15 Inf.
Unless a 17+ Inf Anarch comes out there is no way to fit the entire combo.
>>44307750
As non noted, influence is a problem. That being said, we have Temple of the Liberated Mind and Emptied Mind coming up too.
And that one that will give you and the corp one more click per turn.
I'm thinking that particular design space is getting over-crowded.
>>44308006
The main problem is outside of one deck (The Mill Deck) runner click gain is kind of worthless.
Most times you are still only getting 1-2 runs a turn unless you are setting up some kind of combo, and even then there are few combos you can do with 5+ clicks that you can't do with 4.
So what cards would you need to get as many clicks as you can?
>>44308518
Yes, but it doesn't work in a deck.
>>44308542
If you cut the Rachel Beckman you can fit it in any Anarch ID.
So 26 clicks total is the max for a currently build-able deck.
>>44307750
3 Base
+3 x3 Biotic Labor
+3 x3 Mandatory Upgrades.
+3 x3 Haas Arcology AI
+1 x1 Director Haas
----
13 clicks.
>>44307906
Try the other way, a shaper using anarch
Amped up is 3, Josh is 3, Beckman is 1, stim dealer is 3
Ignoring Beckman can get you Amped, Stim, and Josh
>>44308759
Then no Keyhole to make the clicks meaningful.
Shaper does not really have a good click active attack program yet.
If there are too few Agendas left in the game for one side to win and the Corp has Hades Fragment scored is the game a tie?
>>44308786
Actually, going back to what >>44308595 and >>44307906 say, drop Beckman and instead of Keyhole use DLR instead
Of course you'll have a tag and be very nearly dead from Brain Damage, not to mention having MU difficulties, but still.
Silly concept is silly
>>44308825
How are you removing the excess agendas from play?
>>44309015
The runner is selling them, that´s not important. What happens?
>>44309015
Troll Iain with data dealer?
The deck that wins by crushing the runner's spirit
>>44308825
I suppose you could apply the Infinite Loop ruling. The corp must end the loop by not using the Hades Fragment and lose at some point.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/12/21/a-step-forward/
It was nice while it lasted. See you in 2017 boys!
>>44309737
I think it first depends on whether the corp can flatline the runner, or if the runner has some way to force corp card draw. If it was the first round, they get five minutes to resolve the game, then I give whoever has more points a modified win, if it is the second, then they can play it out.
>>44309737
That makes some sense, but it isn't what I would go with, maybe slow play?
>>44310196
What about it. These rules were in play during Worlds too.
>>44310196
I don't get it. What's this mean?
>>44310715
Anything smaller then 100 people has 4 rounds can cuts to top 4.
>>44310800
Aw man. I'm fine with 4 rounds, but Top 4 means I'll never be able to get a prize now... Top 8 with double elims was fine.
Whens' the next tourney? My LGS just reopened after moving away for two years.
Also what do people think about the grail ICE?
>>44312850
>what do people think about the grail ICE?
Can be pretty good, though eating 9 influence isn't great and low strength can be an issue.
Blue Sun likes it.
>>44312850
Twins Grail Merlin was a thing for a few weeks.
Kind of faded out with the death of ICE that was Anarch AI breakers.
>>44313004
Goddamn Faust.
>>44312958
Grail ICE can be both fairly threatening early and taxing in the long run. As anon noted, costly in influence, but worth it if you build well around them.
>>44313708
I don't know that Faust is that much of an issue to be honest. Two stacked Grail mean up to six subroutines for a minimal credit investment for the corp.
I think good ol' Parasite + Hunting Grounds becoming a thing, and quite simply the huge influence cost made people go for other options.
Still like that Midway TWIY Grail deck.
>>44308103
>The main problem is outside of one deck (The Mill Deck) runner click gain is kind of worthless.
If you're meaning *mass* click gain, then I kinda agree. Limited target uses for that.
But otherwise, especially in Anarch, I never have enough clicks to be honest.
>>44314120
I think the problem is Parasucker.
>>44314227
I think Parasite by itself proves enough of an issue. Added support to it is just salt on the wound.
Yet another thing is Wanton Destruction fucking with you carefully built HQ support, I guess.
is it worth getting the data packs or just stick to expansions?
>>44314557
Data packs are most of the game, and have cards for every faction... you'd miss out on a lot if you just got the expansions.
They are both fixed content though, so you'll always know exactly what you're getting - data packs are NOT random boosters like Magic
>>44314456
Goddamn Anarchs. They expanded on the original Anarch philosophy of 'trashing stuff that has no business being trashed' to 'trash everything'. How do you expand on Criminal's design space when Shaper has all the draw, tutoring and recursion?
>>44318832
Drive- By and Political Operatives show cool ways of doing it.
Criminals (should) have been all about timing and control.
The idea of being able to "store" run for later use (which is somehow what Political Operative is - you make a run on a HQ now to not have to make one on any server later) could do some wonders. Imagine something like an Hades for other servers: make a run install the card in the server, later trash it to access one card in the server without having to run.
HQ virus needs three counters, can be purged, when active "The first time each turn the corporation draws a card, it draws 1 additional card. Chose which it keeps. The corp puts the other one at the bottom of R&D.
Current (with usual current stuff): When your turn begins, the corp must pay one credit per rezzed piece of ICE if able. If it cannot you may chose to derezz one card, and trash the current. If you do, that card cannot be rezzed until your next turn.
>>44314557
That's a loaded question. Really depends on *your* needs.
If you're playing competitively, some of the best new hot stuff is going to land in a data pack sooner or later, so you're bound to have to buy a few - though you hardly ever needs to buy them all unless you feel like having the whole card pool on hand.
If you're not playing competitively, then it becomes a matter of your current card pool becoming stale from too much use, and then yeah, buying data packs is a good way to spice things up, but it's only ever needed in that case.
Or you might just love a card and want to play it that badly.
All in all there's value in buying them, how much rest mostly on you.
>>44319880
Yeah, that's exactly what happened to me with Reina Roja.
Want to test a card, add it to your deck, proceed to never draw any copy of it over 7 games.
I went so far as to double check if I hadn't forgotten to add them.
Damn it.
>>44321184
You either need more draw or more copies. Or both.
I was talking with my friends about Weyland ice and we came up with this idea. An ETR that says 'All barrier subroutines can only be broken by fracters.' Boom, anti-AI and anti-David card. Saves Weyland.
>>44322549
That would immediately shutdown Quetzal, so I have to disagree with that kind of design.
>>44321254
Three copies in a wyld-pancake deck.
I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
>>44322695
Easily solved: "Non-fracters programs cannot break's subroutines".
Not convinced in principle myself.
>>44322990
It's just that Space Ice gets neutered so easily by David, it's frustrating. The lack of 3/2s means you can't really fake your remotes well, so it's difficult to tax out the David. It gets worse since you frequently want to 4 advance your Atlas. So they can just snipe your agendas easily. Weyland needs traps, or ways to work around David, or just better ice.
>>44323140
>Weyland needs traps ways to work around David
Well, there's Wendigo or Swarm even I guess, but nobody likes those.
>>44323140
We have The Twins, and also sub-Boost.
>>44323169
>Swarm
Swarm is fun.
Not necessarily good, I think it has one too many "balancing" factors for that, but fun.
"oh, you expected an Orion? Shame"
I'd quite like Weyland to get a non-region upgrade (maybe a sysop, now they can tutor them) that prohibits installing during runs/runs on a particular server - it forces the runner to slow down, or else run the risk of hitting some of weyland's nasty ice, and it kills the oh-so-annoying insta-parasite
>>44323451
Oh totally would like that; but it would have to be an expensive toy, influence-wise. Hell, would have loved it to be the SanSan 5 influence asset instead of World Plaza.
"The runner can only used paid abilities from Icebreakers during a run".
>>44323216
Merlin with 3 Sub Boosts and 3 Patches with Twins behind it!
>Install Parasite with Clone Chip
>Use Datasucker tokens to trash it
Fuck Anarch.
>>44323733
I think it's just crazy how much easier anarch's ice trashing shit is than criminal derezzing is - Datasucker, as the way to get fixed breakers to work, is fine, but in enabling the insta-parasite it's just obnoxious as fuck
Speaking of anarchs being obnoxious, pic related, the first card of Mumbad
For once though Weyland don't draw the short straw, being uniquely suited to ignoring this card, and doubly so after Democracy and Dogma comes out
>>44324139
I doesn't get much easier than Muertos Gang Member. Thankfully timing sensitive card, but it's so ragingly powerful if timed right.
It don't think it's an issue power, it's an issue of number of options available.
>>44324139
forgot pic
>>44324139
The main problem with derez VS trashing is that most decks have to run low cost gear check ICE mostly to deal with the fast runner meta (that is a counter balance to the FA speed corp meta).
So it is always much easier to trash since most ICE cap out at 4 str. If we had a meta of huge ICE all over the place then derez (and crim over all) becomes much better.
>>44324322
>If we had a meta of huge ICE all over the place then derez (and crim over all) becomes much better.
With the very notable exception of space ICE.
>>44324341
True. Really the biggest issue Weyland has IMO is Agendas. None of their Agendas (outside of Project Atlas) are that amazing. You have to put so much work into scoring them for very little effect. None of them really scream power to me.
>>44324375
High Risk investment is really powerful against a high econ runner. Especially for runners that want to defuse the threat of traces by sitting on liquidities.
The rush selection - Oaktown and Hollywood Renovation, Hostile Takeover, and I'd put Atlas here, is just very good in my opinion. It just overshadows the rest. Geothermal is probably the worst of them, and I can't say it's bad.
The "threatening" agendas are not strong enough. Underway is interesting, and offer you pure RNG victories if you're willing to give it a chance, but still a bit weak. Posted Bounty does its job. I've argued here before, Vulcan should have either been 3/2 or ditch the bad pub. The Cleaners doesn't up than ante enough so far to be as powerful a threat as it should be once scored (though it + PSF does rock... too situational overall).
Government Takeover is just so fun, and it's so mad they hosed the decks that were willing to take the risk of it with Film Critic. And in the rare instances when you score, damn no arguing the effect.
The support agendas are a mixed bag. The 3/1 suffer from the usual caveats of being 3/1s, but I think they aren't half bad in the proper build. Superior Cyberwalls in a an almost full Barrier + Program-trashing/Willow deck is just grand. Firmware Updates is good acceleration for your Space ICE - no to mention the Atlas money. Glenn Station... occupies a weird spot with the usual need-to-score-an-agenda-to-make-the-deck-work Weyland issue. Same thing that can plague the otherwise solid Government Contracts.
And then there Helium3... whatever were they thinking with that ?
If there's one agenda that deserve to catch flack in the whole game, it's the one.
>>44324375
I don't know, their effects are pretty good, if you can score the damn things in the first place, and with the public ones I think they have a solid suite, with just a couple of duds that everyone gets. In a lot of cases their strength isn't in a single, powerful effect, it's in strengthening your entire game, though the econ single-shots are pretty great too (the killer single-shots sadly less so)
My local group has been playing with a new house rule that has made the game SOOOO much better.
Agenda's don't count for deck size. So you need to run ~45~ non-agenda cards in your deck then add in 20 points of Agendas.
It has slowed Corp decks down a fair bit and allowed them more combo space. Really shifted the meta in interesting ways. Mill decks disappeared since Corp decks have the space to run counter card. Combo decks have become much more popular since you don't fuck yourself trying to add in econ, combos, and protection in one deck.
Give it a shot and see how much it improves the game.
>>44324846
That sounds like a great way to really neuter the Corp to me.
>>44324846
I do think reducing agenda density from the original 20-21 for 45 cards was probably something needed (hence the Howard crutch and Global Food Initiative that tries to alleviate part of what Howard counters before he leaves the card pool).
This seem like it would be too much on the other extreme side of things though.
Still, we did try reducing 45 decks to 18-19 points before... worth a try. I'll keep the idea around for next time I play.
Thanks. I love myself some alternate plays.
>>44325483
We have seen Corps go from about 35-45% to around 50% with the rules change.
Mumbad when
I am literally dying
>>44325656
I'm honestly not in a rush for it... they could release it end of January/early February and I wouldn't be bothered. Hell, do be late.
Still so many decks/cards I have yet to try from SanSan/D&D.
>>44325656
Early-Mid April when the 1st quarter starts.
>>44270109
Does anyone have Wyrm's Adventures in Cyberspace episode 2 floating around? I can't seem to find it.
>>44327567
>>44327605
Nice.
I didn't catch episode two if it ever as released, to my chagrin.
Latest I got was the first attempt at a new player guide...
>>44325656
But anon, we are all literally dying, all the time.
>>44332715
Play that with CI and Reuse. Then question why you just dumped half your deck away.
>>44333792
I think CI is my least played ID apart from the D&D ones that are still in testing.
It's time to dust it off !
With HB cards, could we make a deck meant to be played from Archives as much as from HQ?
>>44334090
3 Archived Memories, 3 Reclamation Orders, 3 Interns. The question is, how do you want to win?
>>44335413
Three Team sponsorship too ? Project Vitrivius. And Director Haas's Pet Project.
I guess Allele Repression could fit, though at 3 inf a pop, probably won't.
>The question is, how do you want to win?
With style.
I remember making a stupid proof of concept deck where I'd try to force an Hades Force early game then Power Shutdown-ed my deck so that I could pick my draws (hasn't everyone tried that one ?). Was funny having Archive my most defended server.
Anyway, here: brute force you deck draw via Panic Button, trash with Reuse to get proper liquidities, then take your pick off Archives as the need arises.
Honestly, was just a silly sleep deprived idea.
>>44336924
Being able to get what you want in hand is nice, but it doesn't equate to scored agenda points and that's what I meant. Do you plan to score out normally? FA? Never Advance? What?
fuck OCTGN dude
maybe i'm just retarded but this ui is a clusterfuck
>>44339047
Have you tried Jinteki?
>>44339047
I sympathise.
TriMaf Contact + Muertos Gang Member + Wireless Net Pavilion is fun, but I've died too many times from a turn 2 Sea Scorch TriMaf.
>>44341305
Not enough Account Siphon then.
>>44341420
Yeah, I went all in on the connections. No Account Siphons.
>>44341305
Huh, the TriMaf are better killers than the Weyland goons hired for Vulcan Coverups or Contract Killers - kinda funny, kinda sad for Weyland
http://apps.magicjudges.org/
https://twitter.com/MarcelMTG/status/679328868331720706
MTG is imploding!
WotC more or less has gone on the warpath and been telling the entire community to fuck off.
Prime time for Netrunner to rise to the top!
Literaly me, yesterday
>>44345254
wrong pic
>>44342583
Well, hopefully they solve their issues.
What are best options for long run economy for Runner?
>>44348482
Depends.
Recurring econ is the obvious answer, but you have to cope with the limits of targeted speedings (Scrubber works only for trashing,, Multithreader only for programs etc) and the limited pool.
Bad pub is great too. But then the whole deck needs to be built around it in my opinion.
>>44348719
Damn I accidentally a line.
Then there's drip econ (Underworld contacts and the like) which has traditionally been seen as too slow. But for long games (longer than current tournament average), I'd say it can really be worth it.
