How educated is your Paladin?
I always imagined the Paladin an armored priest, the russ orthodox priests were oft the most educated people around and same goes for swedish protestant priests.
>>44262139
As educated as any other holy brother whose members are overwhelmingly dominated by younger sons of noble families. That is, very educated for their time, perhaps quite shit compared to ours.
>>44262144
I am thinking that a modern shadowrun style paladin would be a member of the police force that has 3 years worth of teological education (ifaik it is the college education of a priest in my country)
>>44262139
Depends on their upbringing.
My paladins tend to be warriors on a mission from god; not priests with a sword.
>>44262139
an educated paladin is like an ethical assassin. possible but doesn't really exist without some stretching. rational intelligent thinking and violent zealots don't go together.
![Differenze-sociali-3-cibo-dei-monaci[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GqRxrlO.jpg "Differenze-sociali-3-cibo-dei-monaci[1].jpg")
>>44262139
Why are you singling out the Russians and Swedish when the priestly class in general was the more educated class?
>>44262659
Are you deliberately changing the point or are you just dumb?
Either way, a paladin is a religious knight. Priests and the knightly classes were more educated than 90% of the population in most medieval periods.
>>44262659
Things get a little hazy when a high-level paladin can summon a literal servant of their god to the material plane, and quiz it about the particulars of their god's moral code.
>>44262139
The paladin I'm currently playing is more of a born-again type: he was a soldier who found God, and is atoning for his past war crimes. He doesn't really know too much about the particulars of his deity's doctrine, but he trusts the holy men who guide him, so the gods appreciate the effort and grant their blessing anyway. I see paladins as drawing their power from piety and devotion rather than theological/philosophical/moral wisdom/knowledge.
>>44262835
>>44262855
thank you for proving my point
>>44262855
Nonsense, that was just a high level illusionist dressed as a Paladin.
>>44262902
No, you did not prove anything.
A paladin is more educated than the majority of the populace by default. And he lives in a world where he actually KNOWS his actions are morally right.
So there is no 'stretching' required whatsoever.
It is a mix on my paladins. Many are raised like priests but also taught martial techniques. Others are warriors who were given a mission from their god.
The first out number the later but the later are the true paladins . Warrior of purpose.
>>44262931
This.
The fact that a paladin exists, by the norms of the setting, means they are factually correct.
>>44262902
Stop applying real life ideas to a fantastical setting. People like you are the worst mongoloid.s
>>44262972
I think some people just hate the idea of someone who is truly and objectively good, not sure why.
>>44262659
>>44262902
I guess you also believe that the Dark Ages should be blamed on the religion
>>44262777
I am of russian heritage and i Green up in Stockholm. I have grad school level education from both but Theselius are the only nations i can speak about for sure
>>44262139
The last Paladin I played was definitively not the most educated of the group, but he still had a noble education
>I always imagined the Paladin an armored priest
Well, D&D Clerics are armored priests
>>44262972
>The fact that a paladin exists, by the norms of the setting, means they are factually correct.
Not all paladins are like this, but it's true it's the default assumption.
>>44262659
Even if what you said isn't an argument relevant to the paladin, there is plenty of violent zealots who were highly educated.
>>44263032
To be fair, the objective alignments of D&D don't have the same definition than the terms in real life.
>>44263032
Maybe they've had bad experiences with the kinds of stubborn assholes who unflinchingly believe that they and their actions are totally, unarguably, good.
Alternatively, they might be tired of fictional stories with pure, black-and-white morality, and want something a bit more ambiguous.
Alternatively alternatively, no-one is truly and objectively "good" in real life, and the person complaining might just want their fictional adventures to reflect that fact, even if it would detract from the story the GM is attempting to craft.
Really depends on the paladin
It makes plenty of sense that they tend to be well educated, it also helps them lay out judgements effectively. (We've always joked that the overly smitey paladins maybe skipped a few of the classes on mercy and restraint)
That being said there are variations. I've played a paladin who didn't realize he was for quiet a while, just a swordsman trying to do his best for the world ("Paladin? No I'm not a paladin, those guys over there are paladins"). This got a little harder to justify when he started casting more than a couple of spells.
Similarly I've played a classically trained paladin who spent the first 12 or so years of his life as part of a (REALLY BAD) tribe of barbarians and raiders. The paladins wiped out his family but also took him in. He was very conflicted for a while but eventually decided that the slaying of his tribe was a just act. His blood brother disagrees (You've been indoctrinated) and they're currently bitter rivals each trying their best to "save" the other one.
Wow that was tangential, anyway he was educated but very clearly later in childhood. He was well spoken but wasn't very good at reading (he had to write a letter once and it specifically took him about twice as long as it should and he wrote in big, very plain letters). He couldn't tell you much about nobility or history but he knew how to skin a deer or find potable food and water in rough environments.
Now I want to play a paladin again
>>44263128
None of that is a justification for making ignorant assumptions or bringing in real life to justify it being impossible for a Paladin to be intelligent.
>>44263128
Truly and objectively "good" in D&D isn't the same thing than in real life.
I think most people don't read the alignment section, and just go by what people who also didn't read it tell them it is.
>>44263181
It's an explanation, not a justification
So here's something I wonder. Just about every time paladin comes up these same arguments come up. Some people just REALLY REALLY don't like paladins.
But I've never really seen this applied to clerics. The same fedoracore arguments could reasonably apply but folks don't. Just paladins. I've never heard of an elaborate no win situation that causes a cleric to lose his powers. I've never seen any of the shit that paladins get.
Why is this. Is it the crusader imagery? Have people had that many bad paladin experiences (I mean okay we've all probably had at least one instance where a paladin does something VERY violent and probably evil for what they believe is the greater good)? Or do folks just that significantly hate the idea that someone can be an objectively good person (and...well...get magic powers from it)?
I think a cleric would fit the role of an armored priest
>>44263258
Clerics never had a code as severe or binding as a paladin back in the day. Of course most times a DM made a Paladin 'fall' they did not do it properly by the book. A Paladin is not meant to lose his powers for doing his best in an impossible and contrived situation where all options are bad.
And because clerics could be any alignment they never fell foul to shitty edgemaster DM's by default.
I usually go by their background, not their class.
>>44263128
>Alternatively, they might be tired of fictional stories with pure, black-and-white morality, and want something a bit more ambiguous.
Aka everyone is an asshole.
>>44263258
A Cleric has to do what their deity or philosophy tell them to do, but this generaly leave plenty of rooms to do what they way. Paladins, other hand, tend to be restricted by a certain, definite code, making them somewhat more limited in their options.
So, some people consider the Paladins to be the "stop having fun, guys" class. And then they get the false idea that a Paladin would fall because of an oversimplified moral dilemma, and false ideas about how alignments work.
Add this to the players who are legitimately jerkass on how they play their Paladins (either by being holier-than-you "I'll kill you if you don't respect the law" kind, or by acting like pure mosnters and then saying "but muh good character"), the fact that people like to complain on the internet, and people fueling the flame because they think it's funny, and you have this situation as a result.
>>44262139
Probably less educated than a cleric, as paladins are essentially warrior dedicated to the church, and are more focused on protecting the righteous and smiting enemies of the faith that debating theology and interpreting their god's will.
Still fairly well educated, though, as they must comprehend their order's code and know how to apply it to any given situation.
So who would more likely be a teacher of (their) God's word, a Paladin or Cleric?
>>44263442
Cleric
>>44263442
Cleric, unless you mean it metaphoricaly
Paladins are warriors who serve their god/church, clerics are priests who can fight. One is a warrior who can do divine magic, the other is a divine spellcaster who can use weapons.
It can be a subtle distinction in practice. Especially since without the arbitrary 'priests use maces' nonsense they would look very similar when equipped for war.
>>44262931
>>44262972
You seem angry. Is it because educated paladins don't make sense? Maybe is it because you're religious in real life, and this is rustling your jimmies?
I understand that you being in this thread means that you're probably a paladin fanboy, but lets at least try to be objective here.
>>44263040
nope
>>44263485
I always thought a good distinction was that clerics don't seek conflict, but paladins do. Clerics are fundamentally doctors, and only fight when needed for protection or other extreme cases. Paladins are fundamentally soldiers that seek out an enemy with the intention to eliminate them.
I think that's where the mace bit comes from, because it's a more non-lethal weapon.
>>44264105
>hurr durr if you disagree you are religious.
Knights in real life were more educated than most people, priests were more educated than most people. Therefore a priest-knight will be generally well educated by default.
There is no reason to dispute this.
>>44264241
>using real world evidence to support fairy-tale logic.
real knights were regimented killers. real priests were academic pacifists. Therefore a priest-knight will be a pacifist-killer and a regimented-academic.
hmmmm, no I don't think so. Still in your rigorous attempts to justify your opinion, you have continued to completely miss the point.
>>44264385
>real knights were regimented killers
This does not stop someone from being educated.
>real priests were academic pacifists
A member of the Clergy could still be a fighter.
> Therefore a priest-knight will be a pacifist-killer and a regimented-academic.
What about orders such as the Knights Hospitaller, whose members were both priests and knights?
>using real world evidence to support fairy-tale logic.
I'm sorry, but what is the point you're trying to make? That it is not possible to explain elements of a fictional setting using real life exemples?
>>44264105
> Is it because educated paladins don't make sense?
Could you explain why once more, please?
>>44264385
Except priest-knights existed in real life and were anything but pacifist. And many real life monks and priests hunted, learned how to swordfight and even commanded troops in battle on occasion.
>real knights were regimented killers
Who were also more educated than 90% of the population and more likely than most to be literate.
Do tell us, what IS the point?
>>44264492
>>44264517
you're both trying way to hard to prove that you're right, and you can't see the forest for the trees.
Although I can't blame you really, because I did try to instigate your frustration in my choice of words, merely for my own amusement of course.
Perhaps try re-reading my original statement and play devils advocate for a moment. This may help you open your mind, so that you are receptive to new ideas. I will also be sleeping for several hours, which may afford you some time to think. If this thread is still here later, then I will endeavor to explain "the point"
>>44262659
inb4 everyone bites and lets this take over the thread
oh wait
>>44264771
Eh, it didn't take over the thread. I was just curious if this anon was trolling or legitimately thought this.
Would people enter Paladin orders simply for the military or academic training, in your setting? The same way that people joined the clergy to get an education in real life?
>>44264750
No, actually explain or there is no point.
This has nothing to do with playing devils advocate or 'being receptive to new ideas'. You made a series of objectively false claim and refused to actually respond properly when challenged. And sorry to disappoint but I am not 'frustrated' by your childish display.
>>44264842
I mean, even if they're not particularly religious, I can imagine a lot of people would like to learn how to kill monsters and the like, especially in remote areas that are threatened by all kind of nasties
>>44264771
Not everybody posting stupid shit on the internet is a troll.
Just look at all the people who honestly think studded leather is real/effective and get offended when you bring in facts in arms and armour threads. 'Hurr knights were all killers who did not know stuff' is another hugely popular misconception.
>>44264750
>>44264859
If I had to play devil's advocate, I'd say that one does not require an education to be a religious zealot, meaning that a certain majority of those who will be it won't be educated.
But that doesn't change the fact that plenty of religious persons who fights are indeed educated
>>44262139
My paladin is as educated as any other noble, which is to say more than a peasant and less than those nerds at wizard college.
>>44262139
I assume fairly well so, either picking it up as he travels or being taught at a church
>>44262777
>Most educated class
>The sun most certainly revolvth around the Earth!
>I am a master of knowing daemonolgy of the enemy
>I know the entire biblical stories front and backeth!
>Meanwhile local wisewoman rolls her eyes as she prepares an actually effective healing broth as her husband corrals the animals; knowing its going to be a rough night this winter due to the signs he's learned
Just like today, "Education" is so utterly overrated, most of it is drivel.
Many monks and priests were alchemists, doctors, and other professions that had practical uses.
>>44262139
He was well-educated in theology. But he was also a massive womanizer with great charisma and humor. More Ben Franklin than Aquinas.
Statistically, my paladin is smart enough to read, but due to training in isolation for several years, he has little knowledge about eh outside world other than his common sense.
On another note, since we're having a thread about paladins, is it okay if I share my latest run to you gentlemen?
I''ve been roleplayig for about a year with my group and I often felt like I was a blank character with just stats, but thanks to the advises of my friends, I've begun to show some progress. At least that's what they say.
>>44264750
I know it's bait but
Fuck
>>44268346
>On another note, since we're having a thread about paladins, is it okay if I share my latest run to you gentlemen?
Go for it. /tg/ loves storytime
>>44262139
>How educated is your Paladin?
That depends. She's got around highschool-level education by modern standards (making her a hax scholar in her time), but additionally she can just know things through her connection to the Light, though the latter tends to fade from understanding to mere trivia after a while.
>>44262139
Given the Medieval view that God was a rational existence and that by extension all his creation, the world, humanity, are therefore rational creation, I say definitely educated.
>>44267546
>education
>overrated
