We really need to decide what to call this thing.
---------------------------------
Changeling the Dreaming kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-changeling-the-dreaming-20th-anniversary-ed
http://theonyxpath.com/
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/
https://mega.nz/#F!wpB0ib4a!EsAU0AE4ihrNlDWzp3-MIw
Realms of Darkness.
Just do it. Also add the google doc link for the CofD pdf.
What's your favorite Mage Order?
Hint: There's two right answers.
>>44173701
CofD is the official shortening for Chronicles of Darkness.
>>44173882
Free Council and Silver Ladder in that order.
>>44173882
Guardians of the Veil are the only right answer. If you choose another answer then there's something wrong with you, sleeper. You know too much and still make the wrong decisions; only one solution.
>>44173904
Wrong!
>>44173918
Right on the money! Ideally with the Arrow as gullible, deniable stooges.
>>44173882
>What's your favorite Mage Order?
Adamantine Arrow, since it's the only one I can remember
>>44173701
I saw ChroD in some forum post and liked it. You can actually say it, unlike CofD.
>>44173882
Mysterium. Because Books.
>>44174045
>can't say "the sea of dee"
>>44174045
>You can actually say it, unlike CofD.
>unlike CofD
>"See of Dee"
>"Coughed"
i can say both of those just fine.
>>44174083
Well, fair enough I guess. I think 'coughed' is a shitty thing to call a game, though, and I like the parallel between wod and chrod, which see of dee doesn't have.
Realms of Darkness when we're talking about both games. We use RoD and we pronounce it "rod" if we have to speak it aloud for some godforsaken reason.
CofD (pronounced "coughed") for the Chronicles of Darkness.
WoD (pronounced "Wad") for the World of Darkness.
Simple.
So for those that care about Changeling, whats your favourite seeming and why is it Wizened or none because their all shit but Wizened.
>>44174290
2e seemings, that is.
>>44174290
Haven't looked at the 2e stuff. Darkling has always been my favorite with the Wizened and Ogres a close second.
>>44174290
2e has ruined Seemings but back when CtL was good I loved all of them except for the Wizened.
I had an Ogre who was abducted by aliens, I had a Fairest cannibal princess, and I had a bara Beast man who became Summer king and fucked a lot of dudes.
>>44174374
I'm the same way man, I used to love everything BUT Wizened and now it's the only one I like! Because fuck me I'm not playing a Ogre just to be railroaded into being a total asshole just because David Hill thinks thats a cool idea.
>>44174290
Dunno, but Nightsinger's my new favorite Kith:
>You sir, in the back, I believe you yelled "rap sucks". I didn't come here to perform vapid pop music and tonight is an open mike night. I'm going to be up here for the next ten minutes, whether you like it or not. However, in honor of you, I'll change up my style a bit and play something that may teach you a thing or two, if it doesn't send you running screaming.
So /cod/ how would you go about running a NWoD mage game about 4 high school kid mages?
>>44174448
Honestly sounds like a twat.
>>44174416
According to 2e, my favorite Beast character is apparently now a Darkling.
Thanks.
>>44174448
Speaking of Kiths, I personally think this guy
would be a Tunnelgrub, don't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw0aoVpFCDw
>>44174374
>>44174416
If you can't think beyond an iconic example, aka a suggestion, you deserve one dimensional characters
I love what they've done with Seemings for 2e. They allow for some evocative stroytelling while also a massive variety of characters mechanically, instead of diluting themes like what happened in 1e.
>>44174448
Or maybe it's Coldscale
>This indoor orchid garden is my favorite room and I hold all of my meetings here. Yes, it's expensive to keep all of these plants, but the deal we are talking about helps pay those bills. If you give the security contract to my firm, we'll make absolutely certain that your neighborhood is protected from all threats, even ones you might never suspect or even believe.
I didn't know that becoming a Changeling meant that you only spoke in long, kind of awkward dialogue, but I'm OK with this change!
In all seriousness, while I'm not as pessimistic about Changeling 2e as some folks might be (I'll probably fuse the 2e rules with the fan made stopgaps), I can't say I expect the game to be my favorite of 2e. Mage is probably going to take the crown for this edition.
>>44174558
They're Seers in training.
>>44174448
>>44174696
It's to be expected of a first draft.
>>44174653
Mind explaining what this version has over 1e? 2e Courts I can grasp, I even like the change a bit, but I'm not seeing much of a benefit to swapping Kith with Seeming.
Is CofD rulebook pdf out yet?
>>44174740
Both of those are in the second draft, which seems to be the final draft.
>>44174778
Bullshit it's a final draft. Still in redlines.
>>44174772
jajajajajajajajajajaaaahhhhh1!!!!!!
>tfw you think the best part of 2e is all the mini settings in each corebook
>there will never be a giant book of settings
>>44174772
>>44173849
>>44173701
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Abn1a6PgUCa19KbjdNcmNhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Abn1a6PgUCa19KbjdNcmNMWms/view?pli=1MWms/view?pli=1
From the last thread
>>44174905
Sorry, should have checked last thread first
>>44174886
You can make it yourself anon., be the change you want to see in the world
>>44174886
Fuckin' love the mini-settings especially since my hometown is one of the Changeling ones. Favourite city and favourite game line combo hype.
>>44174745
Originally in 1e Kiths were strongly tied to Seeming. All "animal" kiths were Beast Seemings, all "elemental" kiths were to the Elemental Seeming. So if you wanted to be fire, or a wolfman, you had to be a specific kith. While this was strong in theme, it was too restricting.
Later books let you take any kith with any seeming, or even dual-kiths, but this diluted theme in exchange for more options. This made little sense if it were your Seeming that mostly defined your durance and mein.
In 2e, your Kith is what your Keeper made you for whichever purpose they desired. Taking the place of kith and seeming of 1e. Seeming develops from the method of escape. A Beast becomes more wild by breaking their own taboos. An Elemental becomes like the world and land by releasing their ego and recognizing something greater than themselves. This change allows for the great variety of characters without the dilution of strong themes.
Is the renaming of nwod a confession that it was a flop?
No, this is not a bait. The article sounds at least somewhat negative for me.
>>44175016
Shame it doesn't cover the changelings that are 'freed' by their keepers and more or less insults those characters by taking away the curse and blessing system. Which I find funny since apparently loyalists get their own seeming by selling their 'soul' for 'freedom'.
>>44175016
So wait, in 2e will you be able to take a Seeming that is completely different to your Kith.
>>44175048
>Goes for 11 years with the "world of darkness" name
>Suggests a name change means it was all a flop
No. It's Paradox/neo-White Wolf following through with their "One World of Darkness" promise without murdering nWoD. Now there's WoD and CoD/CofD, which makes it easier to refer to just one of the lines when dealing with people who aren't familiar with the distinction between old and new as an added bonus.
>>44175069
There are still Curses and Blessings anon, but they're now more ways of gaining Clarity and Clarity breaks, instead of manipulation of dice.
>>44175097
Kith is entirely disconnected from Seeming now. Kith is what your Keeper made you, Seeming is how you remade yourself by the actions of your escape.
>>44175105
Oh no I'm aware, I more mean't that from what I saw Curse and Blessing are only for those changelings with Seeming, which means my character that was freed no long has a seeming and I've lost out on that mechanic. Of course if there is a universal Curse and Blessing that works similarly to the seeming ones, please tell me.
>>44175097
2e Seemings and Kiths are completely unhinged from each other.
Your kith is based on your Durance, your Seeming on how you escaped.
The two are not tied to each other at all.
>>44175142
Dammit, Now I can't Be Lady Gaga (Manikin Fairest)
>>44175172
Tell that to my Gristlegrinder Fairest.
>>44175100
Not the name change. More the statement that there was apparently problems to market it.
>>44175157
Nothing yet, but I suspect just the regular ways of gaining and breaking Clarity similar to 1e. Sure you don't get the extra way of gaining clarity, but you also don't get the curse either.
>>44175237
So they are REALLY good at eating your face, make some sense.
Is combat better in the second edition?
>>44175306
Some people adore it, others think it's worse. I like it, and I especially like being able to use Quick & Dirty combat for things that don't need to be a full orchestrated combat. It's smart design, especially for a horror game.
>>44175172
>>44175237
You still can be. You're just Manikin first and Fairest second.
The Fairiest for example escaped by taking it upon themselves to do so, and helping other to escape as well. This can be challenging your Keeper to organizing a break out. The Wyrd marks their Seeming with these responsibilities they have taken on and gives them a fairer form of their Kith.
Do not however, Seeming is more defined by what the changeling feels about their escape, rather than their actual actions. One will become a Darkling if they feel they have betrayed someone who trusted them, whether the betrayal is real or percieved. A Fairest could think their actions helped others, but instead they could have done more harm than good.
>>44175365
Brain fart post right there.
>>44173918
The GotV firmly believe that most people shouldn't want to be GotV.
Confirmed for Seer spy.
http://theonyxpath.com/announcing-the-12-days-of-onyx-contest/
Whoooooooose ready for more cards?
So I've been perusing the new core book. Everyone is talking about the new subsystems, but here's two things I've seen that struck me:
- Now you get a beat every time you get a breaking point. This thing alone solves half the issues I have with XP in my campaign.
- The abbreviated statblocks for enemies make me really, really happy. It's something that every game should do. They could have been a bit more granular (only three "tiers" here) but it's really great.
>>44175609
>The abbreviated statblocks for enemies make me really, really happy
I hope you get AIDS
Also, White Wolf published the first teaser for their in-house WoD line. This'll probably be the only thing we're getting besides the panel, since they want their tabletop VtM to come out at the same time as their AAA VtM game:
https://youtu.be/4wewNseVo24
In related news, there is now a WoD YouTube channel.
>>44174905
It's weird when you check the next WoD thread and you suddenly realize someone found the pdf you uploaded to go share with friends.
The internet is an amazing place.
>>44175609
>Now you get a beat every time you get a breaking point.
That was a thing in GMC too.
Except for Werewolf 2e. You get Beats in Werewolf by cheesing Perception rolls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGjHsLnUO1U
Would the Guy she's talking about be a Daeva?
Just call it Chronicles of Darkness its a simple name change and there's no need to get into edition wars over it.
>>44175632
I don't want to have to develop full fucking character sheets for every goddamn character.
>>44175642
>that garbled English in the Mage bit
Enlightenment is four syllables, swedebro
>>44175676
Merle is gonna come a cropper one of these days and come back as a Forgotten, then every ghost he insulted will beat the shit out of him.
>>44175632
>It's a good thing to stat out completely every random mook on the street
If you say so.
>>44175716
>>44175730
Cowards
So would you guys use Cabal Beats in a 2e Mage game? And would you just use it for regular Beats or also for Arcane?
Dave, if you read this, do feel free to pitch in.
>>44175750
>Using group beats
Christ no. It's hard enough to get a decent number of Beats in a session as it is. I don't want those siphoned away by the people who don't know how to or care about getting Beats themselves.
>Get 10 Beats over the course of the session
>end up with 3 because nobody else bothered getting any Beats aside from the "show up to the session" one
>>44175745
No, sensible. I let that shit develop through play.
>>44175653
No it wasn't. Breaking points gave you conditions and those gave you beats. Now you get a beat for the breaking point itself too. I'm looking at the table on page 158 of the GMC and there's no mention of Breaking Points.
>>44175750
Regular Beats. Arcane Beats should be personal to the Mage, a reflection of their own intellectual and spiritual journey.
>>44175745
>the world's most pretentious dictionary
>>44175745
Sorry I'm not in school anymore. I remember how it was like having nothing to do but preparing for the next game.
>>44175807
What, really?
Maybe I'm just thinking of Vampire, then. You get a Beat whenever you make a Detachment roll, in Vampire.
>>44175016
>An Elemental becomes like the world and land by releasing their ego and recognizing something greater than themselves.
Wait, does this mean someone could become an Elemental if they escape by giving themselves over to Jesus?
>>44175642
Well that pretty much confirms that "one World of Darkness" always referred to making the oWoD all take place in the same shared universe like nWoD did.
I wonder how the hell they're going to do that, considering all of the major gamelines run on mutually-contradictory metaphysics. In order for Mage's metaphysics to be true, Werewolf's need to not be true, etc.
>>44175656
Sure
>>44175812
Arcane Beats bug me, but only because I like crossovers. I suppose I could always create things like Renown Beats and such though.
You know what, Renown Beats should be an actual thing.
>>44175982
Vampire 2e has Blood Beats as an optional rule, but Mage assumes Mages will trend toward higher Gnosis than Vampires will Blood Potency.
Renown Beats sounds like a good idea, if only because Renown is so insanely good that it's really hard to justify spending your XP on things that AREN'T Renown.
>>44175880
That's entirely wrong.
nWoD, now Chronicles of Darkness, is a toolkit to running your own world/chronicles using the same themes. There is no metaplot.
oWoD, now World of Darkness, is a global story with a metaplot, you're running chronicles in their world, not your own.
>>44175858
Maybe? It's more the sacrifice of ego, to become more thing than person.
>>44176050
I think you misunderstood. I think they where saying that all oWoD splats would be made to work cohesively together like the nWoD splats do.
>>44175982
Well, the idea is to give the players OOC reasons to pursue Mysteries, but really, you could use the same reasoning to justify Blood Beats and Renown Beats. BE A VAMPIRE AND NOT A PUSSY! BE AN AWESOME SPIRIT COP AND NOT A LAZY, HAIRY BUM!
>>44176050
>That's entirely wrong.
You are saying the same thing he is.
>>44175796
Man, have you ever played in 1e? Compared to advancement in 1e, you are usually on fast track to Awesome Town in 2e, even in sessions when the Beats come slower.
>>44176127
Ah right,
Well they have their own niches obviously, all with their part in the metaplot that was not really a problem originally, but now it will be mechancially sound and much easier to run crossover games.
>>44176050
There's no metaplot, but there's an assumed shared universe, even if it's only just "other supernaturals exist."
>>44176050
That has nothing to do with what I said. I never once mentioned metaplot.
oWoD's gamelines were never originally intended to be in the same world - they operate on completely different, contradictory assumptions on how the cosmology and metaphysics of the world works, and how other splats work. Vampires in Werewolf are Wyrm-tainted fuckheads who all need to die. Vampires in Vampire are cursed by God. God doesn't even exist in Werewolf - the supreme deities are a Hindu-style creator-preserver-destroyer trinity. Lupines in Vampire are not Garou from Werewolf.
in Mage, all of existence is dependent on human belief. In Vampire and Werewolf, humanity is basically irrelevant - except for the possibility of hunters in Vampire, or the fact that environmental and spiritual damage is killing the planet, and that's mostly due to a global supercorporation that worships the Wyrm (which has a Vampire on its Board of Directors, because in Werewolf, Vampires are basically Wyrm-claimed, remember?).
In Mage, the Consensus is always a thing, and whoever is in charge is always going to define the rules of reality.
In Werewolf, the Technocracy would impose stasis on reality because they serve the Weaver.
And that's not even getting in to Changeling and Banality and shit.
>>44176235
Only to allow for crossover games. You don't have to use them, I never do because I don't run crossover games.
>>44176250
>oWoD's gamelines were never originally intended to be in the same world
In the end they did though, however convoluted it was.
Can someone tell me where they talk about things with 0 blunt/lethal damage? Making a bloodbrute in Changeling and wanna figure out how much damage her fists to.
>>44176153
Yes, I've played 1e. 2e advancement is slower when you're only getting 3 beats per session, and that's even before taking into account that everything costs more in 2e.
In 1e, you should be averaging 4-5 XP per session. You get 1 for showing up, another 1 for bothering to roleplay at all, another 1 if you can produce a one-sentence explanation of any useful life lesson your character learned over the course of that entire session (which is trivial), another 1 if you did anything particularly heroic or memorable, and ANOTHER 1 if you took a Flaw and it came up. You should be getting an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of 3 XP per session, and regularly getting 4 or 5 if you put effort into participating in the session. Then on top of that you get another 1-3 XP every 3 sessions or so when you complete a Story. So taking each Story on average, you should be getting something like 5 XP per session. More if you took a Flaw.
In 2e, you have to put deliberate effort into participating in the session (in a way that hits specific "generates Beats" criteria during play itself rather than afterward) to get more than the 1 Beat you get for showing up. You CAN get 10 Beats in a session, and the like, but that's if you do basically nothing but specifically chase down the options that get you Beats and whore them all session. Getting 4-5 Beats per session requires significantly more effort specifically put into "getting my character XP" than in 1e, where the only requirement during the session itself was "do at least one cool or memorable thing".
Now add onto that the fact that in 2e, everything costs more Beats than it did in 1e XP. Want to buy an Attribute dot? Enjoy paying as many Beats as you did XP for the FOURTH dot in an Attribute for every single Attribute you buy.
Character advancement in 2e is hilariously slow.
>>44176308
0 damage means you don't add any extra dice. If your firsts have 0B damage, you do Bashing damage equal to successes rolled on Strength+Brawl-opponent's Defense.
If your fists do 0L damage, you do lethal damage equal to Strength+Brawl-opponent's Defense.
>>44176433
Ah alright, thanks for the answer senpai
>>44176307
>In the end they did though, however convoluted it was.
Sure, but ostensibly this time it's designed that way from the ground up, so hopefully it'll be less convoluted and nonsensical.
>>44176401
All they had to do was make the XP values flat. That's all they had to do. Oh, Onyx Path.
>>44176842
That's my Onyx Path
>>44176796
>>44176307
>>44176250
See, White Wolf thinks, "finally, a consistent universe for gamers to share stories and alter the world in!"
What I see? I see a lot of people getting really fucking angry about their pet splat. Kicking up the oWoD fan nest is not going to be pretty.
>>44175609
>- The abbreviated statblocks for enemies make me really, really happy. It's something that every game should do.
Holy shit I need to get this book. This is what I've wanted for WoD since forever.
>>44176842
They did make the XP values flat, the problem was: they made them flat based on HIGHER dot levels, and then changed the XP earning system in a way that potentially increases the rate at which you get XP, but in practice makes it much slower unless you run and play the game the way it demands (rolling dice all the time to generate exceptional successes for Conditions, making sure the ST contrives the session to include all the characters' Aspirations and then doesn't incentivize doing something else, etc). In 2e, with Aspirations, the session developing organically and veering off to scenes nobody expected to happen, which is usually seen as a positive in most games, is penalized by the loss of XP. Nobody saw it coming, so nobody had an Aspiration relating to it, meaning you lose out on Aspiration-generated Beats.
Aspirations basically demand that the ST only run the scenes the players decided they wanted to see ahead of time, and if someone has a better idea during the session then too damn bad.
>>44177023
And with Group Beats, you need to make sure EVERY PLAYER is resolving multiple Conditions and Aspirations every session to have everyone get the 4-5 Beats just to keep up with the advancement rate from 1e (and remember, 2e XP costs are still higher). With larger groups, this is actually pretty difficult. Inventing 15 new Conditions every single session is a pain in the ass for an ST, and seeing the same Conditions over and over is boring for the players.
>>44177023
What I meant was "All they had to do was keep the regular XP system while keeping the costs flat" but yeah, I agree. I really want to like Beats but they're so damn slow. They're a good idea for an advancement system, just not for one that wasn't already slow to begin with.
>>44176121
So kick it up to Alexander Anderson levels then. He literally laments being born a human instead of an event.
>>44177023
Do you think there's any way that kind of spontaneity can be rewarded with the Beat System as it is now? Some kind of "surprise Beat" or something.
Some days I think maybe all the lines should have just stayed at 1e. Things were probably better that way.
Do you think we'll get second editions for Geist and Mummy down the line?
>>44177928
Probably, yeah. The real question is, after looking over this thread, do you really want them? We may just end up wishing for the halcyon days of Geist 1e.
>>44177895
The game does allow for the ST handing out Beats for cool stuff, but at that point you're entirely dependent on ST fiat to get XP (whereas in 1e, you had certain things that were guaranteed to get you XP AND didn't require you to have done specific individual things during the session, like "my character learned something, here's what", or "I actually bothered being in-character this week").
>>44177999
Changeling was pretty much perfect while Geist is basically nonfunctional. They really can't hurt it.
As for Mummy, I'll take whatever they do to it so long as it gets more people playing my favorite game.
>>44178085
>Changeling was pretty much perfect
Ehh, Contracts were pretty shitty, but that's a fairly minor complaint considering all the other cool shit Changelings can do. Between Pledges, Oneiromancy, and Talecrafting, you really don't need Contracts to have lots of awesome Changeling magic shit to do.
>>44178085
Don't go 'round wishing on that Monkey's Paw. Seriously, why do we leave that thing hanging around this thread?
>>44177023
My experience has been so different I cannot even conceive of a way how we could begin to agree, both on the issues of Beat generation and EXP expenditure cost.
I give you the implied point about the system for Beats not being easy to grog for new players. That's fair, but that is where other players and the ST pitch in to help them along or simply hand out Beats for other ways to enrich the session.
Players playing up Conditions, not feeling unduly punished for Degeneration/Breaking Points and welcoming Dramatic Failures has made my sessions way more interesting and dramatic and my players better roleplayers.
>>44177928
According to OP, the only reason Geist wasn't announced for this year is because they knew it wouldn't get finished this year.
>>44177928
In 2020 yes
>>44178263
Well I've had the opposite experience. We already roleplay just fine, and we find the Beats system intrusive and obnoxious for trying to force a different style of play on us.
>>44178305
As an addendum to my other post (>>44178263) I am also not hung up on strictly following the guidelines and wasn't in 1e either, so the scenario described earlier of the session taking an unexpected twist would not really significantly affect he player's Beat collecting. The ST just has to account for that.
>>44178521
Yeah. My main problem is that the guidelines in 1e were significantly less obtrusive. I know a lot of groups just threw them out and just arbitrarily decided how much XP to give out, but my group never had to do that, and I'm not looking forward to having to do that in 2e.
>>44178628
>>44178305
I find it's better to have a system in place one can not use, than not have a system at all. like the guidelines were.
>>44178858
1e did have a system, though? There was a reward for roleplaying, there was a reward for standout moments, there was a reward for getting into your character's head and considering what they were learning and how they were growing in a way other than what's on the character sheet...
>>44178893
They more suggestions of when and what to reward, nothing mechanical in the slightest.
Given how much Dracula loves Wraith, I'm honestly surprised that the One World of Darkness trailer didn't have one thrown in there.
>>44179155
Can I say I love that his moniker is fucking Dracula?
For those who haven't seen the trailer yet.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjdCxS5kH0ZWY79DI5HmFnw
>>44179185
Dude earned it. Dude's such a Dracula he's in the damn Vampire 20 book as Dracula. You can't possibly get anymore Dracula than that.
>>44175330
Why do others think that it is worse?
>>44179399
It gets pretty swingy the closer characters get to being equivalent in stats. That was a big deal back when GMC first came out.
>>44175584
>http://theonyxpath.com/announcing-the-12-days-of-onyx-contest/
Is this bait?
>>44179441
I think people using Down & Dirty combat for opponents of close to equivalent stats do not quite get the point of it.
>>44179466
for some reason OPP is convinced we fucking love Condition Cards.
To be honest the very fact that people need lots of Condition Cards is further evidence that Conditions are bullshit.
What if we make Condition Cards collectible?
>>44179501
Nope. I'll be going with my bait theory. Much less upsetting.
[quiescence intensifies]
>>44175730
Not him, but though I do appreciate abbreviated statblocks for combat-intensive enemies/games, having full stat blocks for every random mook is a nice thing to have
>>44179501
I like Conditions.
>>44173882
The Silver Ladder.
They want to kill God.
Now that's a cause I can get behind.
>>44176401
What if you scrapped the system as written and replaced Beats with XP? Does that break it? Or what if you make 3 Beats per XP?
>>44179484
What if you just want to be able to knock out a guard without ten turns of combat?
So... I just read Beast, and it turned out really strange. It's like there's no theme in it at all. Basically, all the protagonists do is spook people and fend off some other guys who for some reason should be bad guys, but considering that their only job is to kill sociopathic parasites, I don't see how it's logical. And the whole "teach lessons" premise is pretty far-fetched, if you ask me. Am I missing something, or is it just a bad book?
Sorry if it was already discussed.
>>44179949
Folks have been talking about Beast ever since it leaked, and it's mostly what you're saying. The "teaching lessons" aspect is a last minute addition, actually. Originally they just fed or else people would turn into Heroes.
>>44179949
You've pretty much got it.
I could kinda see it working as a 'scary creatures aren't evil' game in a Pratchett style, but that doesn't really mesh well with WoD.
>>44179949
Ah, yeah, almost forgot. Vampire or Changeling handle those themes much better. Especially lgbt things. I mean, the book is just too goddamn preachy in that regard. It seems redundant and unneeded.
>>44180004
>>44180016
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this way than. Also, what was it like before "teaching lessons"? Did they just say that you must mindrape people for pleasure and consider it normal?
>>44180043
>what was it like before "teaching lessons"?
Even more shit.
>>44179866
You could probably go back to 1e's system for how you get XP and just reward 2 or 3 Beats per 1 XP, yeah.
>>44180043
Before it was "teaching lessons", it was "you abuse and victimize people because that's what you are, and fuck anyone who says you don't have a right to freely be who you are".
Beasts were outright villains who justified their villainy with "it's my nature". The problem with the book was that it didn't recognize this, and that most people wouldn't want to play Abuser: the Justification to begin with. People like playing Vampire, but their abuse and victimization takes the form of a comfortably alien metaphor - drinking blood. Beasts hurt people the way actual abusers hurt people. It was real enough to be honestly repulsive.
>>44180043
You did it because going hungry sucked, and also your Horror (then called the Soul) would jaunt around the Primordial Dream, bringing terrible nightmares to random people. If people got scared really bad, they turned into Heroes. So essentially, if you got too hungry, a group of people would hunt you down and kill you. If you got too full, your Beast would go to sleep and you're a normal human, just in time for a group of people to hunt you down and kill you.
The biggest problem with Beast is that it should either go all the way and be either "you are absolutely a terrible person: the game" or be the "Nightbreed meets Grendel" game that the premise promises (it took a full revision to get Nightbreed on the influences list when that's pretty much what a Beast game SHOULD be like!), but instead it wants to stay in this uncomfortable middle. Not only does that make the game lose focus, it also gives it this skeevy undertone of the "innocent abuser" which no one cared for except the horrifically broken.
Someone once summed up the original version as "the school shooter RPG" and as harsh as that sounds, there's basis to that assumption. The revision helped the game be less gross, but it didn't solve the big question of "What the hell do Beasts do all the time?"
>>44180329
>People like playing Vampire, but their abuse and victimization takes the form of a comfortably alien metaphor - drinking blood
More importantly, I think, the book makes it sound nasty. The average vampire is not portrayed as cool. Understandable perhaps, but not worthy of emulation. Playing an average-to-low Humanity vampire is a walk on the dark side and the book is written with that idea in mind.
>>44176136
The spirit cops part is outdated. Now you are a primordial hunter-monster instead. Which is cooler.
>>44176401
>Character advancement in 2e is hilariously slow.
I have the exact opposite problem.
The players are grabbing up 1-3 experiences per session. They simply grow too damn fast for it to be reasonable for me.
>>44180638
Unless you're a Ghost wolf which means, like always, you're just a sad lil fat faggot. Man seriously I don't like the ghost wolf art in 2e.
>>44180570
Yeah, I think that's the big divide. In Vampire, the glorification ends up being on the player side of the table. In Beast, it's in the book. It has to be, because there's nothing that screams "play me!" besides the barest concepts (be a monster of legend, hang out with your other CofD pals).
>>44180638
And what do you do with your primordial hunter-monsterness?
Police spirits. That has not changed.
>>44180697
Ghost Wolves get everything they deserve in the 2e book.
>>44180680
...How in the fuck are your PCs getting 15 Beats every session?
1-1.5 XP a session seems about what they're aiming for. And considering how hideously expensive Skills are in 2e (10 beats for EVERY SINGLE NEW DOT), that doesn't seem like it would ever be a problem unless they only ever spend their XP on powers.
>>44178113
You forgot hedgespinning, which is also incredibly cool.
>>44179784
They don't want to KILL god, they want everyone to understand that they have the right to BE god. Not just the fuckers who are claiming the title now.
>>44180724
15 is an extreme, but yeah. It has happened.
And the explanation is: Exceptional motherfucking successes.
I do not mean to say that they are powergamers, but they ARE good at racking up bonuses.
Added to that, if they do fail a roll, more often than not do they downgrade it to a dramatic failure.
Oh, and they are generally quite pro-active, and usually work out at least two of three aspirations per session.
Then again, we do have rather long sessions, 4-6 hours.
>>44180830
>Added to that, if they do fail a roll, more often than not do they downgrade it to a dramatic failure.
You realize you're only allowed to do that once per scene, right?
How many scenes are you GETTING through in 4 hours? If you're making THAT MUCH plot progress every session, I'm not sure 3 XP is too quick of an advancement rate.
>>44180570
Plus one of the themes of the game is trying to hold on to what's left of your humanity in spite of your monstrous nature. You do terrible things to survive another night, and join groups that either attempt to minimise or at least redirect your worst impulses into something vaguely productive. Beast doesn't have that. You start as a selfish monster and your worldview is entirely predicted on hungry (to abuse) / not hungry. The tacked on "lessons" bit is just after the fact justification for their horrible behaviour. If you read black hat matt's account of his actual games, one of the player characters is a child abductor that "just wants to make the parents learn to love their kids more." that's sick.
>>44180830
>Exceptional motherfucking successes.
>I do not mean to say that they are powergamers, but they ARE good at racking up bonuses.
Explain to me how they're reliably racking up dicepools of like 17 dice, because I genuinely don't understand how they're doing this constantly.
>>44180916
So that's the best that even the guy who wrote the game could manage?
Has he ever considered that Beast was just not a good idea for a game?
>>44180883
Umm... Last one had... Eight? I think?
And everyone checked out at least two downgrades, one did four.
>>44180938
Mid-level vampire game. Disciplines give a great boost to the dice pool (and not as bonus dice, but rather as something inherent to it), and then there is bloody physical intensity.
>>44181135
>Mid-level vampire game. Disciplines give a great boost to the dice pool (and not as bonus dice, but rather as something inherent to it), and then there is bloody physical intensity.
I assume Disciplines is where all these Beats are going to?
Obvious solution there is to use Blood Beats and then restrict increases to Disciplines/Blood Potency to being purchased using Blood Beats.
Then they have to buy Merits and Skills and the like.
>Reading CofD
So Ambidextrous is still here but no Gunslinger fighting style merits. So... how many dots should that merit be in 2e? (1 extra off-hand attack at -1 die)
>>44181134
Found it.
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?759812-Beast-The-Primordial-Roots-in-the-Community
>Michelle's character is Maia Wallis (Makara Ravager). Maia prefers to feed by getting into relationships with men and then slowing wrecking their lives. They're free to walk at any point, of course (she doesn't stalk them if they break up with her). She teaches the lesson that some relationships are toxic and it's better to end them.
>Toasty's character is Tyler Townsend (Eshmaki Nemesis)... As a Nemesis, he tries to teach thieves that their lives aren't worth whatever they're trying to steal (he runs an antique shop).
>Amanda plays Miriana Kyle (Eshmaki Predator)... As a Predator, she seeks to remind people that their status on the food chain isn't a given - even people can be prey.
>Matt plays John Dawson (Ugallu (Predator). He owns a house in the neighborhood, where he takes people (children, often), whose families are lying to one another and otherwise toxic. He lets them freak out, then returns the kid a few days later, unharmed.
>>44181488
Man, how is toxic relationships a primordial fear of humanity that needs to be taught?
>>44181488
>Michelle's character is Maia Wallis (Makara Ravager). Maia prefers to feed by getting into relationships with men and then slowing wrecking their lives. They're free to walk at any point, of course (she doesn't stalk them if they break up with her). She teaches the lesson that some relationships are toxic and it's better to end them.
And this is a protagonist, right? This logic's never questioned or called out as ridiculous, flat out blaming-the-victim bullshit? Not one of the bad dudes examples like the Pure or the Seers, "look at how much of a douchebag you could be" type shit?
Hoooo nelly. That speaks volumes.
>>44181705
>Literally "Why didn't you just leave him sooner?" with the genders reversed
Wow. That actually IS word-for-word victim-blaming.
>>44181702
>>44181705
You should read the full thing. It's really quite something.
>…That seems kind of suspicious, so Miriana heads back to Parma and drops in on John and Tyler, and tells them about what she saw. Maia rolls in short after and she and Miriana note they both have Bones' number, so they decide to meet her the next day. For now, though, it's late. Tyler swings by his shop on the way home and sees someone has broken in and stolen a brass spyglass in the front display. Perfect.
>He visits the presumed thief, and sees her on the phone. He knocks on her door, but she tells him to go sleep it off somewhere else (he doesn't say why he's there), and he decides to wait and hit whoever she fences the object to.
>The next day, he waits until she leaves and trails her to a dive bar. He watches her sell the spyglass to a man, and then Tyler waits and tails him. This guy notices him, though, and leads him into an alley to warn him off. Tyler tells him to give back what he took, the man says he bought it and refuses to give it back. He pulls out a sap.
>Tyler, in no mood to fuck around, uses his Dragonfire Atavism and sets the guy alight. He runs a little ways before he remembers to stop, drop, and roll, and Tyler picks up the bag and leaves. Unfortunately, his Horror isn't interested in this meal (player failed the Satiety roll and took the dramatic failure), so Tyler is even hungrier now. Fortunately he knows someone else to punish.
Later
>Meanwhile, Tyler goes back to the thief's house. She's on her couch, smoking a bowl. He breaks in and hits her with the You Cannot Run Nightmare, and then grabs her head and carves a T into her cheek (for thief). Hungry and pissed off, he spends a Satiety to inflict the Fugue Condition on her, as well, grabs the money she got, and leaves, his Horror happily feasting (he's up to six Satiety; didn't quite crack out of Sated).
>>44181882
What's this, Colsteel: the Game or something?
>>44181882
Jesus fucking christ. I know you're not supposed to judge a person on what they do as their character, but jeez this is some weird punishment power fantasy bullshit.
I kinda imagine Beast either as Grimm monsters as morals or like Crypt Keeper horror shenanigans. Is that not what it's like?
>>44181705
>>44181837
>Maia goes down to 4th Street, where crowds are already drinking and partaking of the hip new restaurants beginning to spring up (this trend continues, by the way; Cleveland has a fun food scene). A young man named Ryan approaches her - suit and jacket, tie tucked into a pocket, obviously a young capitalist type. She flirts and accepts his offers. She doesn't know yet if he's going to be her next boyfriend; it depends on what he needs to learn.
>Maia goes on her date. She's lost a dot of Satiety (I made the offer to all of them at the beginning of the sesson; lose a dot, get a Beat), so she's hungry. She activates Heart of the Ocean and, wouldn't you know, Ryan is indeed her type - drawn to bad relationships. She immediately seduces him, looking forward to making his life hell over the next few weeks.
>>44182064
Did you not read the thread?
To anyone that was reading the open dev previews for the Mage 2e Orders, did anyone else think the Mysterium merit was weak as fuck?
>Miriana then went to the park and started looking around for people jogging and not appreciating what was around them. She found a woman with a FitBit, running along, and used her You Can Never Rest Nightmare on her to scare her. The woman picked up the pace, and Miriana chased her until the woman outran her, and Miriana's Horror fed on the fear.
>>44182080
>(this trend continues, by the way; Cleveland has a fun food scene)
WHY DID YOU TELL US THIS
WHAT DOES THIS ADD TO YOUR REPLAY
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>44182126
How the fuck does she go from "I need to teach this woman to appreciate whats around her." to "Fuck it lets make her afraid of people following her."
Plus this makes me think that it would be totally reasonable to be some big guy that follows women home late at night and makes them think their about to be raped or something
>>44182091
Yep. It has also been changed. We haven't seen the new one, though.
>>44182126
>not appreciating what was around them
What's this got to do with being prey? Sounds more like an angry hippie.
>>44182187
Oh really? Great, me an a friend where disappointed to shit about the original one. Thanks for telling me senpai. Hope it sells the Indiana feel instead of that "We only do well in our libraries" shit.
http://theonyxpath.com/cofd-c20-and-you-and-me-monday-meeting-blog/
>Mage: the Awakening Second – Art approved…need CofD swapped in.
Well. The art is finally done. We might be looking at an Easter release rather than a Gencon release.
>>44182219
You weren't the only ones. There was a huge uproar on the OPP forums, and in accordance with the reaction, stuff was changed. The change hasn't been disclosed yet, though.
Makes me glad that we have DaveB and not Hill as lead dev for Mage. Had it been Hill, we would just have gotten angry baboon noises.
>>44182220
You forgot
>Promethean: the Created Second – Pinging Ron to see where the splats are…
As far as Mage goes, I think the CofD stuff being swapped in is all it needs, now, right?
At the least, all it's gonna need after that is Paradox approval, and that probably won't take too long since they aren't holding it off for a special convention announcement like the 2e core.
We MIGHT actually get Mage 2e before New Years. Or at least before Valentine's Day.
(PDF-wise, that is)
>>44182273
Keep in mind, though, that Paradox is trying to get WoD off the ground at the same time. That might keep things slow for a while.
>>44182178
Well, I mean, if kidnapping children is kosher...
>John, meanwhile, did some digging into his next potential mark. The guy, Leonard, had a son named Max on John's Little League team, and Leonard was very much of the "win! WIIIN!" school of parenting. John hacked his social media and found that Leonard had been a football player in his youth, but now worked for a bank and was fair uninteresting...except he had a quasi-monthly charge at a scuzzy motel over on Pearl, just into Strongsville. John, figuring he was about due for another such meeting, staked the place out, and saw Leonard arrive. He followed him around back and peeked in the window, and saw Leonard with a woman...and two other guys. No, not like that. They were talking.
>John used Shadowed Soul and slipped in through the shadow, listening in. They talked about Dillon, a fence who'd been brought into the ER the day before claiming a guy had breathed fire on him, but now he was perfectly fine. The group decided he wasn't a "bloodsucker" since this had happened during the day, but he'd bear watching. John, funnily enough, felt the same way about these folks.
Excuse me, kidnapping children after you've stalked their parents for a bit. Got to do your due diligence if you really want to have a teachable moment.
>>44182273
Nope, there is a layouting phase to make the picture and text balance look good.
Now the (finally) have the art, now they will have to put it in and make it all look good.
Valentines to Easter, sometime. If we are optimistic.
>>44175242
the "problem" was that paradox didn't want to confuse the horde of normies that are going to be looking into the TTRPG after their slew of cWoD games come out(or at least a new VtM game) by having two completely different lines with the same name.
Renaming nWoD to Chronicles allows them to safely leave Onyx Path in the corner while they churn out cWoD video games with the World of Darkness™ name connected to Masquerade and lesser lines exclusively.
>>44182331
I'm sure those dudes are just hero's, but man how fucking bad of an idea would it be to steal a hunter's kid? Because thats going to go two ways, you scare him into staying with his kid and giving the hunt up abandoning trying to save people/kill monsters. OR he and his band of hunter buddies show up at the Beasts house and try to burn it down resulting in them killing some kid the beast had locked up in the basement or whatever.
>>44182220
Motherfucking fuck, that is amazing. Just... Finding one last excuse to keep Mage in Art Direction another week. Amazing. Clap clap. Congratulations.
>>44182444
I think a lot of parents would go into full on murder mode if they found out that the local little league coach was abducting kids in his care even if they didn't know he was a supernatural creature. If they did find out he's actually a monster and friends with loads of other monsters they'd be prime candidates for the Vigil. If they already were Hunters... well, have you ever seem a little film called Commando?
>>44182220
Demon Storyteller's Guide is also off at Paradox for approval.
>>44182671
I'm glad that DSG is almost out, but on the other hand I'm not sure I really like that the book has such a short run. But oh well, better to stay short and sweet or some shit like that.
>>44182579
Dillon, you son of a bitch.
>>44182273
>As far as Mage goes, I think the CofD stuff being swapped in is all it needs, now, right?
All it needs as far as changing the text goes. They still need to do layout - insert the art, do fancy sidebars and whatnot, etc. Then it goes to Dave to get approved. Then I think it goes to Paradox to get approved?
>>44182671
Getting so hyped. There's a decent possibility of me running Demon next semester if my other obligations don't make me implode, so that'll be really helpful for me.
>>44174653
>If you can't think beyond an iconic example, aka a suggestion, you deserve one dimensional characters
As-written, the Seemings now shoehorn you into a specific sort of backstory rather than letting you create your character as you see fit. It is no more evocative than what you could have developed yourself anyway, and is in fact needlessly restrictive.
CtL 2e is worthless.
>>44183241
I disagree, but the language could be made much clearer they're examples and not restrictions, which is what's being done.
>>44183269
Good, the descriptions as written always felt more like how it is than an example. All Ogre's where bullied, all Darklings where loyal, all beasts where trapped in some way, etc. Though honestly, I recently thought of having a Ogre that lashed out so hard they murdered someone and their fetch got stuck with a harsh sentence, leaving the changeling with a 'person' in their place and a life not worth coming back to.
>>44181882
Could we just NOT let Matt be lead designer on ANYTHING anymore? Promethean MUST have been a fluke.
>>44183529
>Promethean is not even out yet
>talking this far out of your own ass
anon, you sound like a hysterical faggot right now
>>44183529
He's already fucking Promethean 2e by making wasteland only happen under specific situations, so yeah, mega fluke.
>>44183544
Promethean is out senpai, it's called 1e ;3
>>44183529
>>44183553
>Open up PtC 1e
>Check credits
>Developer: Bill Bridges
Uhhhh...
Matt McFarland is in here one time. He's got a writing credit.
>>44183597
What had he been lead dev for before Beast?
>>44183597
I think he got associated with it because he developed a lot of books later. He even developed a lot of Mage stuff between Bill and Dave having the reign, like Imperial Mysteries and Mage Chronicler's Guide too, but I am wondering how involved he really was.
>>44183684
He is listed as the Developer in the supplement books for PtC, yeah.
This is further evidence for the "Matt only does good work when he's forced to follow other people's preexisting ideas" camp, at least.
>>44183724
it's so weird how you guys develop these complex theories of behavior because he developed a book you didn't like
>>44183848
Welcome to being part of the internet fandom for a niche company.
You should see the theorizing people get up to about Games Workshop.
>>44183848
Well when he puts out a book that bad it's hard not to question his talents.
>>44183673
Forsaken, right?
>>44184112
Nah, he just has writing credits on Werewolf.
>>44184112
Nope that's Stew Wilson.
>>44183848
Beast has serious issues, especially on its own. I'm thinking of starting a Mage campaign, and the Consillium would basically keep the local Beasts on leashes. They'd get fed by observing, but stop being a threat to sleepers and themselves.
>>44184228
What's weird is how much I associate it with Chris. I swear, he loves werewolf so much, I thought he was lead dev.
>>44184257
I could see plenty of Beasts being down with that. You get fed, get to hang out with family, and get to go see a bunch of interesting things
>>44184417
Yeah, but then the issue would be for when they don't want to play nice.
>>44184492
If that becomes a plot point I could see some Beasts feeling threatened by Mages trying to team up with Vampires and Werewolves and shit.Mage/Beast crossover?
>>44184522
Better end with the complete genocide of beasts in that city.
I'm tempted to set my upcoming game in (pre-Batman, WoDfied) Gotham City.
Tell me why I shouldn't.
>>44185086
Why are there so many parks?
>>44185141
For all the Werewolves/Hippie mages.
>>44184647
What would Harley Quin be a slasher?
>>44185086
Where is the batcave
>>44185166
Wrong guy, but I'd imagine Harley Quinn being more like a ghoul of some sort because of her obsession and dedication to Joker. Or well, at least when she was still loyal to him.
>>44185086
All the standard crossover problems, plus the fact that you're running a Gotham game without its most important personality.
I think it might have potential, but really I don't see how it being Gotham gives it anything more than any other given made up city.
Really though, if you'd enjoy it, and your players would enjoy it, do it.
>>44175365
Something tells me a Truefriend Fairest would be the comfiest thing ever.
>>44185379
Man I think I'd rather hang with a Truefriend Ogre. who doesn't want to have a giant ape like thing for a friend? I'd hope a Ogre would be less violent than a ape though.
>>44185456
Ogres are the one who earned their Seeming by violently overpowering their Keepers, yes?
>>44185473
Just violence in general by hardening/replacing your heart with something hard and unfeeling. Breaking shit or thinking you caused buttloads of destruction in your escape.
>>44185543
Makes sense, what about the Wizened?
>>44185550
Wizened now replace their weak flesh parts with something mechanical or inorganic. Basicly being a cyborg feels even more natural for the Wizened which I love.
>>44185550
You gradually fall apart as the unfamiliar chaos breaks the comfort of repetition. You rebuild yourself with the comforts of your craft, incorporating them into your body. Essentially you abandon the human parts that failed you, and you escape.
Can someone tell me where/explain to me what a rote action is? I understand it in the Mage sense, but in other games I'm not so sure.
>>44185656
Reroll all failures (first time only). Basically the best.
>>44185679
fucking hell that's great, where the hell do I find that in whatever book it's in, senpai?
>>44174154
>chrod
Looks like it sounds like chode.
>>44185695
Pretty sure it's in core, figuring 5 dots on professional training gives it to you for a willpower.
>>44185695
It's in core, Anon.
It's a Dice Trick, like 9-again and 8-again.
>>44185718
>>44185736
I was more asking if someone had a page number or something, but I'll just word search it in the PDF.
>>44185747
134 in the first Core.
>>44185191
To clarify, what I mean is that I'm going to use a Gotham City that's more or less "neutral" in terms of setting. I'm using the history of the city, and I might have things that reference the comics (a Crocodile monster in the sewer, a clown gang), but not actually setting it in DC Comics. I may have a rich guy vigilante Hunter, but there won't be Batman and a Bat Family and all that.
>I don't see how it being Gotham gives it anything more than any other given made up city.
I can't get my own personal map for my fake city looking good, and I stumbled on Gotham's map and said "fuck it". I figure there are also enough plothooks that it's worth it.
* Court of Owls
* Arkham's curse
* Gangsters
* Crime Alley
Other things I've forgotten...
Just seems like a place that could fit with Werewolf. Lots of spirit stuff.
>>44185761
Arkham's curse? Whats that? Or would it be better for me to just look it up or something.
>>44185761
I've considered setting a game in Gotham before, with Gotham being a real place that the Batman comics happen to be set in. Kinda like how so many Marvel superheroes live in New York.
>>44185787
I suppose "Arkham Curse" isn't the right way to phrase it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus_Arkham
>Upon telling his family of his plans, they moved back to his family home to oversee the remodeling. While there, Arkham received a call from the police notifying him that serial killer Martin "Mad Dog" Hawkins — referred to Arkham by Metropolis Penitentiary while at State Psychiatric Hospital — had escaped from prison, and sought his considered opinion on the murderer's state of mind. Shortly afterward, Arkham returned to his home to find his front door wide open. Inside, he discovered the raped and mutilated bodies of his daughter and wife in an upstairs room, with Hawkins' nickname carved on Harriet's body.
>The shock of the murders brings back the memory of killing his mother. For many years Elizabeth suffered delusions that she was being tormented by a supernatural creature, and would call to her son to protect her. One day, however, he finally sees what his mother saw - a great bat, a spectre of death. Taking a pearl-handled straight razor from his pocket, he cuts his mother's throat to end her suffering. He then blocks out the memory, and attributes her death to suicide.
>Traumatized, Amadeus puts on his mother's wedding dress and takes out the pearl-handled razor. It is vaguely implied that Arkham, cannibalises his family's remains in a shamanic ritual.[1] Kneeling in the blood of his family, he vows to bind the evil spirit of "The Bat", which he believes inhabits the house, through ritual and sorcery. He treats Hawkins for months until finally electrocuting him in a shock therapy session. This incident is treated as an accident by the authorities. Soon after, Arkham freefalls into madness. He continues his mission even after he is incarcerated in the Asylum himself; he scratches the words of the binding spell into the walls and floor of his cell with his fingernails until the day he dies.
>>44185840
Well that's fucking metal man, thanks for sharing that, it gave me a few ideas.
>>44173849
Just separate the threads.
Search your feelings!
You know it to be true.
>>44185890
oWoD generals always die. They probably won't be able to hold their own until more books are released.
>>44185914
There's a hype now, thanks to the upcoming 4th editions.
Also we have had very few cWoD generals, there wasn't enough time for it to become a tradition.
>>44185914
It's like having a Pop Music General, and when people start to ask for a Classical Music General you just say:
Classical Music Generals always die. They probably won't be able to hold their own until more [Beethoven, Mozart, etc] compositions are released.
Yeah, no wonder the threads are full of Nick Manajaja and Kanyee We$t!
>"B-but Anon! That's what people need!"
>"If the Classical Music General is not that popular, then it's obviously not worth it."
>"You know, you can talk about Mozart in the Pop Music General anytime!"
Yes, we can talk about cWoD in the Chronicles of Darkness General, but the latter always outnumbers the former.
There's nothing wrong with this, but it makes pretty hard to talk about cWoD - to follow discussions, find posts, separate nWoD-related things from cWoD-related stuff (clans, etc).
There's nothing wrong with pop music, but it's pretty hard to talk about classical compositions in a thread full of Rihanna fans.
Now let this sink in.
>>44186123
But...
a) We *have had* oWoD generals, and the nWoD general tends to keep going while the oWoD general flounders or focuses only on Bloodlines.
b) There are people who still want to keep up with both
I mean, I'm not a WoD fan but I'd like to keep informed about whatever Dracula's got planned, especially if it turns oWoD into something that doesn't suck.
Although I do worry about how Dracula was implying they're going to start suing people for being inspired by WoD. I mean, he doesn't seem to understand how copyright works. WW already tried that once, and it didn't work out for them.
>>44186321
I didn't realise Werewolf was two years older than Vampire.
>>44186361
It's actually not; that's a typo or something. VtM came out in 1991.
>>44186321
Was the Underworld: Bloodlines mod any good?
>in WoD vampires are described as 'alien'
>in Underworld, vampires are described as 'alien'
>this is somehow evidence for a copyright claim
>this whole fucking thing
>>44186410
Oh, so they've transposed the WtA and VtM release dates.
>>44186419
I know, right? Half the shit is flat out ripped off of Anne Rice to begin with. Which is why it bothers me that Dracula is talking about how people have been ripping off WoD.
No one is ripping off World of Darkness. They're ripping off the same things WoD is ripping off.
>>44186419
The hypocrisy of it was the most galling part. WoD is a pastiche/tribute/ripoff/parody of every fucking horror cliche ever, then they turn around and accuse others of plagarizing them? Even Siembedia wasn't that wanky.
