So I've heard that the Tau were made to appeal to the weeaboo/Gundam crowd, but is that speculation, or has a GW representative actually said that the idea was to bring in fans of a Japanese western aesthetic? Because as a fan of Gundam and mecha in general, I just don't see it.
The 40k experience is very small-scale, and even the larger units like the Knights are only half the size of the original Gundam(18 meters). The old Titanicus game would be a more proper scale for them, and that's not even considering the aesthetics. Admittedly, the Tau are aliens, and aliens in mecha anime usually have the wacky bad guy robots, but they're not really comparable to anything on the line of super-to-real robots.
Are there any mecha fans who play Tau that would like to express their thoughts on the relationship between the two?
>>44141064
Commander Farsight is a somewhat obvious shoutout to Captain Char from the original Gundam series.
>Red suit
>Close combat monster against machines with far superior close combat skills.
>Legendary to friend and foe alike.
>Seems loyal on the exterior but has a hidden agenda.
>Cult of personality.
>Eventually rebelled and created his own, 'better' version of his nation.
They're different in many ways of course but the similarities are obviously intentional.
>>44141064
You have to understand the /tg/ mindeset, Anon.
>Giant robots
>Vaugely asian culture and stylings
>OMG WEABOO SHIT WTF
>HUURRRFFUUUUUDDUUUURRRFFFFFF
>OH BLACK TEMPLAR-KUN YOU MAKE MY DICK SO HARD
That being said I feel like the attempted appeal is there, but gundam is the wrong comparison. Tau are just ani-mecha in general, with a splash of Apple. As in the corporation.
>>44141064
>to the weeaboo/Gundam crowd
They lost before they even begun. Prices of 40k minis could never undercut gunpla prices.
>>44141064
Tau have far more in common with mechas like VOTOMS
honestly Eldar are FAR more gundam like.
Hell the Blue Destiny Gundam is pretty much a Eldar Titan (psychic ghosts!)
the only reason westerners have a knee jerk reaction is because they have only seen Gundam Wing and G Gundam and think "lol all mechas are gundam"
>>44141351
this too
the brand new RX78-2 costs $10. $10 for a modern, super articulate, already basic painted kit that requires no glue.
my brother owns like 50 gunplas which fills entire shelves, and all of them probably cost less than $900. well ok he owns a debrodium and a meteor unit and a GN arms so maybe a bit more, but those put Tau Mantas to SHAME
>>44141443
If I could field gunpla against 40k models, I would without a second thought. Only problem is the smallest scale that's still decent(144) is each similar sized to a titan. Fielding an army of titans is kinda cheating.
I guess this is the appropriate topic to ask about this. I'm a millennial (born in 1992) and got into the hobby when I was about 13 years old, did it for couple of years, then had a break, started again this year. What I wondered when I was 13 and what I still wonder now, is how were Tau and Necrons received when GW put them out as full armies with codices and brand new miniatures?
Any older guys that can share stories?
>>44141163
So it's generalization, then?
>>44141148
The Char character is an archetype within the Gundam metaseries, but I can appreciate that to some extent.
>>44141351
Oh, yeah, totally. I was into Gundam a while ago and recently started getting into 40k, but I realize that I'm paying a comparatively normal price for a Tactical Squad that I had previously shrugged off as 'more expensive' for Gunpla.
>>44141443
I've seen VOTOMS, too. I haven't gotten into Tau Tactics and how durable their battlesuits are, but the Scopedogs and etc. are fragile and fast.
I don't really think the Eldar are that comparable, either, but I do like their mechanical designs more.
>>44141148
for some reason i never noticed this and i've followed farsight from the outset
>>44141497
theres a series of tiny gundam figs, most are painted silver with a few green or red ones.
they look pretty dope, my brother owns like 100 of them and they're about as tall as a space marine
called Gundam Mini Figurines. I think they're pretty cheap on ebay
>>44141148
wait
oh god is Shadowsun Haman?
ehh I dunno though, she doesnt seem the type though to be into shotos
>>44141530
Anon, played around the same time as you.
The new codices are better but you have to be careful of some cheesey builds. Both are solidly tier 1
I've never seen a direct connection to Gundam, this WD article does state they were going for a basic manga aesthetic with the Tau though.
>>44141064
>I just don't see it.
Are you retarded? They're literally mechs with jet thrusters, lasers, and atennas.
>>44141064
>Because as a fan of Gundam and mecha in general, I just don't see it.
...Appleseed...
>>44141064
>has a GW representative actually said that
"The Fire Warrior armor was suggested by Japanese Ashigaru
foot soldiers ... we gave them camel-like toes which
further added to the alien feel ... [Battlesuits]
had obvious Manga influence."
- Jes Goodwin, CA15 November 2001
I'd say that's a "yes." I'd also hazard that "scale" models - which Citadel does not make - are miniature versions of real things for which dimensions are known. Conversely, the gundam "scales" are imaginary - like their "super real" made-up dimensions and ultra-realistic toddler-pilots.
Not that there's anything WRONG with that ...
>>44141530
The necrons were a really soft rollout, there were hints from RT-era on (if you count the chaos android) and they were "evolved-into" I guess is the term.
As I recall, the Tau were just written in, not even an attempt to make them universe-relevant, it was blatant and obvious.
Now get the hell off my lawn.
>>44143034
Clearly aesthetics unique to Gundam!
>>44145504
Ah. I see the problem: we're all using "gundam" to mean "any japanese or jap-esque animu giant robot" and you're an autist.
>>44141064
The fuck does scale have anything to do with looking similar anon? Are you autistic? The complaint is that tau look like they're straight out of some animu, not that they're literal Gundams or the same size as them. Most people don't even know how big Gundams are.
>>44145568
That thing is an Western mech, which still has thrusters, lasers, and antenna
>>44141064
>Implying the most weeb army doesn't have rifles that shoot fucking shuriken, have giant robots that look like EVA Units (and have the soul of the pilot's dead loved one in them), and Katanas for close-quarters weapons... not to mention one faction has a Obviously Japanese symbol.
1/10 we've been down this path before.
Eldar = More Weeb than Japan.
>>44141531
Tau suits were originally meant to be fragile and fast. But then GW decided that big robots made big money, and now we have the Stormsurge.
>>44142787
Jes Godwin has done so much great work for GW.
>>44142787
So one blurb makes them weeb?
Okay then... if you hate anything inspired by Anime so much why are you posting on a imageboard for anime fans?
This conversation is old, we've had it more than enough times to make it predictable when person A will say something and how B, C, and D will respond.
>>44145770
>one blurb
Try the entire driving force behind the faction, all of its concept art and concepts, penned by one of GW's major designers. You might as well say Steve Jobs or Bill Gates talking about their products are "blurbs" that prove nothing.
>>44144857
>As I recall, the Tau were just written in, not even an attempt to make them universe-relevant, it was blatant and obvious.
On the other hand, one of the problems many people had with Necrons after they got their first codex was that they were TOO universe-relevant.
>>44145862
Well, did the Newcrons fix that?
Imperial Guard was made to appeal the British and their Bayonet charges. The Tau were made to appeal the Americans and their drone/electrowarfare/stealth/long range style of warfare. Quite ironic how the space commies fight like Americans.
>>44143080
Or Macross.
Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors both take to Valkyrie-style paint jobs .
Tau military doctrine seems to be partially based on the Soviet Deep Operations and Chinese infiltration tactics. Avoiding costly frontal assaults and focusing on the rear-lines and attacking on supplies lines and depots.
>>44141530
>how were Tau and Necrons received when GW put them out as full armies with codices and brand new miniatures?
Some players hated the fuck out of the Tau because they were anime inspired "good guys", ruining our grimdark full of space-nazis.
I have always hated everything about the Tau fluff and lore. They don't fit in with the universe at all.
Sadly, I do really like the models, but can never own any, because I hate them :P
The necron started as not much of an army, very limited choices, but they were individually powerful.
Because they had existed in the lore for ages (Chaos Androids) no one hated them as much as Tau,
>>44141064
They are Wood Elves mixed with Dwarves.
>>44145912
Not really. Oldcrons were mindless drones in service to the C'tan. Newcrons bitchslapped the C'tan and now a few of them aren't mindless drones.
Honestly it's a pretty big difference, but they were still bumbling around whilst Eldar were in nappies.
The Tau Infantry models, according to sculptor Jes Goodwin, were designed to have subtle influences taken from Chinese foot soldiers.
>>44145930
do as we say, not as we do.
>>44142787
this looks like morrowind art
>>44141064
The unlearned just associate Gundam with "japanese Mecha" often times. The Tau themselves have a flavor that isn't really ripped from any anime I've seen, but they do lean towards Eastern mecha design over western. Farsight is definitely a Char, though.
>>44141530
Necrons were in the game since day 1, as Chaos Androids.
The best part is that they tried to get a foothold in Japan a few years ago by giving the (old) Tau codex away for free in Japan. I can just imagine the meeting that spawned that brilliant move.
If they knew anything about the market, it would have been a free IG codex. With all the Nazi symbolism they wouldn't have been able to help themselves... and right now I could have a Revoltech Dreadnaught on my desk.
But we can't have nice things.
Yeah i can see it to be honest least their suits are better than the Eldars.
>>44145687
>Tau suits are meant to be fragile and fast.
Tau forces are meant to be fragile and fast, but they've always had slow, sturdy Broadsides.
Although the design change for stealth suits is always going to make me sad.
>>44146395
You mean Ahnolds.
>>44146395
>Necrons were in the game since day 1, as Chaos Androids.
Space Crusade (Chaos Androids) was released in 1990. Necrons weren't introduced until 1998. RT was published in '87. There's nothing "Day 1" about them.
>>44145930
Goddamn it, I can hear that in its squeeky little voice in my head.
>>44141064
One of the GW design team has mentioned that the Tau were designed to appeal to the American market. Knight-templars in space and ww1-era tanks and tactics were seen as a very British thing. Tau are high tech, make use of mobile firepower and have a "manga-style" aestethic inspired by anime being very popular among their target audience at the time in America.
https://youtu.be/Zh9c-dO8uS4
>>44146697
As someone that was an American getting into 40k just as Tau were coming out, it worked.
>>44146119
>Because they had existed in the lore for ages (Chaos Androids) no one hated them as much as Tau
Ironically, adding the Necrons resulted in a shitton of huge retcons where they were suddenly behind pretty much everything important that ever happened, aside from Horus Heresy.
War in Heaven of the Eldar myths? Wasn't actually a mythological conflict between Eldar gods, but an actual war between Old Ones and Necrons/C'tan. Machine God? A C'tan. A C'tan gave Abaddon his fancy daemon sword and the artefact needed to control the Blackstone Fortresses. Pariahs/Blanks? C'tan did it! Your sock disappearred in the dryer? C'tan did it!
Tau on the other hand were added pretty much as "they're a small empire on the fringe of the galaxy that recently has made contact with Imperium". No need to retcon them behind every major historical even ever.
>>44146768
And now they've gotten rid of Pariahs, haven't they? I liked the old days, when they were the only ones who spoke, and it was mostly just to taunt those who used to be their peers.
>>44146728
I want that anime
Young fire warrior gets promoted to shas'ui. During imperial attack he gets into experimental battlesuit and starts wrecking shit. Or some other generic mecha anime plot.
So, who are the mysterious benefactors of the Tau who send the Ethereals, protected the Tau with convinient Warp Storms, instructed the Ethereals to hide the nature of Chaos, and left FTL ships laying around?
>>44146874
Eldar? At least Xenology says so.
>>44146889
I'm sure that will eventually be retconned into something truly stupid, since they're now writing that the Tau are destined to save the galaxy somehow.
So, either the remnants of that Alien organization from the Alpha Legion novel, or some obscure special snowflake Ordos, or both.
>>44146874Surviving Old Ones.
>>44141064
I think the Tau were kind of made to give an obvious "good guy" to players who were put off by 40k's general tone of "Everybody is not only incorrigible bastards, but incompetent ones at that". Now it's just that your level of competence is inversely correlated to your actual power.
>>44146874
>with convinient Warp Storms
Not the necrons, since they're the ones who try and stop warp storms.
>>44145912
Not in the slightest. Almost all the controversial bits were nowhere to be seen in the 5th edition codex (aside from one or two vague semi-references which could easily be interpreted as something different, given how much else had been changed) but whether or not the omissions actually meant anything, the Oldcron War in Heaven lore is far too deeply ingrained in the fanbase to ever get rid of. Even if most of the people who talk about it have clearly never read it.
Since the Great Warding of 2011, a few scraps of Oldcron fluff have been brought back, and recent BL books have mentioned the Necron raid on Mars and its sleeping C'tan (shard). From what I always saw, though, one of the biggest offenders - tied with the intrusion on Eldar mythology and its original War in Heaven - was the idea of the Eldar and Orks existing solely to fight the Necrons. An aspect which fans have always fixated on far more than GW, who since 5th edition seem to have dropped it altogether; nonetheless, you'll find it still persists in discussions of the War in Heaven or even just Eldar and Orks in general.
>>44147162
>- was the idea of the Eldar and Orks existing solely to fight the Necrons. An aspect which fans have always fixated on far more than GW, who since 5th edition seem to have dropped it altogether
In the "World Engine" novel, there were ancient Necrons art on Borsis depicting enslaved Eldar and Orks building temples for the glory of the Necrons.
Necrons in the novels refer to Eldar as lackeys of the Old Ones. In "Talon of Horus" novel the Eldar were referred to as a child race of the Old Ones, IIRC. Lastly, FFG states that the Eldar were the greatest of the Old Ones servants. I don't think anything changed in the regard of the Old Ones creating the Orks and Eldar for their war against the Necrons. Whether they were created to solely fight the Necrons or not, hardly matters.
As for what other things the novel brought back?
>Noctis labyrinth
>The Gates of Varl
>The mad scientist from the Oldcron codex was mentioned by name
>>44147162
>Oldcron War in Heaven lore is far too deeply ingrained in the fanbase to ever get rid of
You do realise you're talking about a company that doesn't give a shit about their own lore, right? The company that brought us the term "squatted" to mean getting rid of something in it's entirety without any remorse whatsoever. The company that recently squatted an entire game that was probably quite ingrained in the fanbase.
>>44143080
>This is the only mention of Appleseed in the thread.
It could not be more obvious guys
>>44145770
I personally never called the Tau weeb or said anything about hating anime.
Regardless of what the original intention was, the Tau have steadily become more and more Japanese/Asian influenced over time.
>>44146010
I've never really seen anything saying specifically that Tau focus on attacking supply lines and depots. They mostly seem to be hit and run with one of their big tactics being to draw the opposing force into a trap and another big tactic being crushing the opposing force with speed and overwhelming power.
>>44146768
Technically the War in Heaven refers to two different things.
>>44146817
The C'tan being behind the pariah gene was always a stupid thing with it being limited solely to humans. If the pariah gene could manifest in any species, it'd be different.
>>44147591
>The C'tan being behind the pariah gene was always a stupid thing with it being limited solely to humans. If the pariah gene could manifest in any species, it'd be different.
The Pariah gene manifests in aliens as well. (Source the Pandorax novel). One of Abaddon's pariah slaves is a feral alien.
>>44147301
I didn't mean it in the sense that Geedubs actually care; rather that even if they printed something which outright contradicted the bits in question from the 3rd edition War in Heaven instead of just not mentioning them, there would still be people who hang on to what they know of the old lore. Some ideas are are so firmly entrenched and widespread they'll always be around, especially when so many people don't bother reading the actual sources anyway, new or old.The last part is why in a lot of cases, even their understanding of what "the old lore" says is incorrect to begin with. Pic related.
>>44147591
>I've never really seen anything saying specifically that Tau focus on attacking supply lines and depots.
Taros campaign. Regardless of that, the Tau avoid frontal assaults unless pressed.
>>44147634
>there would still be people who hang on to what they know of the old lore
Negative.
Maybe for the first 2 years but they will get aboard the new lore. Now who still thinks that the C'tan are the masters of the Necrons or that the Necrons are "mindless"? Only the newbiest of newbies.
As for older Necron lore?Most it haven't been touched during the transition so there is no need to dismiss it, especially when it's surfacing again in the newer lore (Ex : Cypher duel with the Deceiver/Abaddon's Golden Guide).
>Abaddon meme
I solely blame apathy of the Chaosfags of that era for not countering the stupidity of newbies and Imperialfags. This is why knowledgeable anons must do their best to enlighten the fandom or else something obnoxious will be born from the cesspool of stupidity.
>>44147630
Now it may, but back when the Necron codex was written you could get the interpretation that the pariah gene was specifically engineered for humanity.
>>44147660
True
>>44147699
>Maybe for the first 2 years but they will get aboard the new lore
Depends on who you're talking about, new players? Sure. Old players? Much less of a chance.
Even one of the BL editors pointed out that you will always get old players clinging to what the lore was either when they got into the hobby or were growing up and possibly coming to vehemently deride newer lore or just not acknowledge.
When Necrons got their 5th Edition codex you had a bunch of people saying, and they still do, that them being Tomb Kings was boring and they were much more characterful when they basically lacked character and were essentially metal Tyranids.
>>44147634
> I have no arms, but I must smash
>>44147286
>>44147630
>>44147699
Shouldn't you be in the Age of Sigmar general shrieking about ANIME APOCALYPSE or whatever.
>>44147730
>Depends on who you're talking about, new players? Sure. Old players? Much less of a chance.
Old players cling to old concepts and lore not out of ignorance or stupidity, It's a matter of preference. They are knowledgeable of the new lore and its contrast with the old.
New players on the other hand jump on the meme bandwagons and don't bother to actually learn the proper fluff. It's the reason the Abaddon meme persisted for so long.
>>44147756
The Apocalypse came and went, anon. It's over.
>>44141064
>so I've heard that the Tau were made to appeal to the weeaboo/Gundam crowd, but
stop reading there
I'm a weeaboo as fuck and I love mecha. This was enough for me to love the tau at first glance
>>44142787
I kind of want to see a Tau army painted cell shaded now, their plates look perfect for an exaggerated comic book look.
>>44145621
Eldar are half Japanese, half Celtic and have become more Japanese over time.
>>44141530
>That pic
>In the grim darkness of the far future there's no colored metals, just paint
Why all this metal behind paint on models?
>>44146697
You know, as a dark eldar player I have never got GW and mobile armies. Mobility a shit in 40k, the board isn't really big enough for it to make proper sense
>>44141064
>Are there any mecha fans who play Tau that would like to express their thoughts on the relationship between the two?
I like Tau, but I'm not a fan of Gundam (I rather Macross and western mechs).
And I'm not fan of anime overall. I just like big robots.
>>44141531
>So it's generalization, then?
Yes. Can't take 4chan too seriously.
>>44146395
Well, considering "Chaos" wasn't in on Day 1, I have a hard time believing that.
Remember when the Eye of Terror was just a big warp storm that separated Outlaw Worlds from the Imperium? And when it "blinked" every seven or so years, the Imperium went full ironfist on the outlaw worlds and threw all the criminals into prison power-suits and called them "space marines?" That was 40k 1E.
>>44141530
>I'm a millennial
>1992
Why does this bother me? People don't say "I'm a Gen Xer" even when they're actually from a significant generation (aka the Baby Boomers, the only one research has shown a significant difference to before and after groups). But also the fact that 92 is fucking nothing in Millenial terms. Go talk to someone born in 97 or such, there's a "millenial" in the meaningful sense.
>>44148218
And just to support what I'm talking about, here's a quick screencap of 1E.
"Chaos" as a thing was introduced in one of the 7 "40k companion books" that came out later.
>>44147162
>the Eldar and Orks existing solely to fight the Necrons.
That wasn't the ccase. Both the Eldar and Orks were created as independent projects by the Old Ones. When the Necron attacks became serious they pressed the two into warfare. Eldar were able to fight effectively without modification, but the Orks needed adjustment. The result worked too well, and now we have a plague of warriors across a galaxy.
The only species that might have been purpose-made to fight the Necrons would behooman beens. Or at least as a survivor race against the onslaught. Xenology hints at that.
>>44147301
Squats are back in.
Fantasy's nuking was stupid and so is Age of Sigmar but don't call it squatting when it isn't.
>>44148234
The term Millennial has always applied to people born roughly between 1980 and 2000. It refers to people who were children during the rise of home computers.
Baby Boomers are people born after WW2 up to around 1957. Generation X is the generation born during the 60s and 70s.
Nobody would say "I'm a gen Xer" because Generation X is fairly shit. Baby Boomers legitimately changed the social order then hoarded all the land and money and failed to live up to their own ideals. Millennials has pioneered a technological revolution that has utterly changed how the world communicates. Generation X accomplished nothing.
>>44141064
>as a fan of gundam and mecha in general i just dont see it
>only focused on giant robo
You aren't that big of a fan of mecha in general.
>>44148218
>and threw all the criminals into prison power-suits and called them "space marines?"
the rest of your post is fine, but this meme really needs to die
marines are highly religious enhanced-human nutters even in rogue trader
>>44148711
?
Not all of them. Penal Legions have their place. Only the most dangerous.
>>44145930
There's nothing specifically British about the IG; I'm a Brit and I've never felt any attraction to play them at all. The IG are there for people who lean towards being interested in WW1 or just want to represent the spirit of the common man on the battlefield rather than a Xenos or armoured snowflake. Most of the Guard players I know are ex-military, for example.
>>44148721
Your posted blurb is what marines STILL do. Read it.
Straight up psychic indoctrination and biological enhancements. Not prison-suits.
>>44147301
Of course they give a shit about their own lore; they just give a shit about money more - and they should - because companies that don't place money above everything else don't exist for long. Squats haven't gone in their entirety; they're still there getting mentions in the core rulebook to this day, but the Design Studio thought that the faction has become a joke and couldn't see a way to salvage them, so like most things in business that don't fit, they get cut.
>>44147699
Massive +1 to this. Chaos Androids aren't in the Rogue Trader rulebook and really did not exist at the start of 40k.
I don't really see the problem with Necrons. The vast majority of the race are still low-ranking mindless autonomous killing machines so that's not gone anywhere and it's only the comparatively few higher classes of Necrons which have real sentience and are capable of independent action. If you're a Necron player just have your Lords, etc be damaged and mindless - faulty Necron Lords are certainly a thing (like the Nemesor) and it's your army, bend the lore to what suits you.
>>44148805
Not sure I could agree with a lot of lore changes being about money, unless you count lore changing to allow more things to be done with by GW themselves or the players.
>>44148861
Some people I've noticed were hung up on Necrons being spooky and mysterious, something that I never quite got.
>>44148778
>Not prison-suits.
Yeah, Starcraft sometimes taints my memory of RT, since it was practically a clone of it in so many ways. Still, I feel like I read that blurb somewhere about being locked in suits, but I can't be assed to go through Compendium or any other RT book to pursue it. I'll concede the point.
In lack, here's RT Dark Angels and their founder "Lyyn Elgonsen."The Chapter Master should still be called Custodian.
>>44148348
Other way round. The codex described humanity's ancestors as "comical tree-beasts, part of the eco-system of their world, but with no greater role defined for them by the Old Ones" before the war, which, like the other "lesser creations", were left to evolve on their own after the Old Ones were gone. The Eldar and Krork, however, were not mentioned as existing before the Old Ones needed them - see >>44145862 under Necron Ascendancy and The Apocalypse Looms respectively.
Now that doesn't preclude them being around beforehand in some shape or form, particularly with the wording in Necron Ascendancy (likewise, The Apocalypse Looms could be read as saying that the Krork were actually part of the defence against the Enslavers rather than the Necrons). But the common interpretation is that both races were created to fight the Necrons, and ultimately the common interpretation is most relevant since I was talking about why nerds were mad. Although even alternate readings don't really change the issue people had, that these established races turned out to be just byproducts of the Necrons' backstory; regardless of whether they were created to fight in the war or merely modified for it.Breddy sure that missing part of the Exodite tablet in Xenology wasn't depicting humans in general, only a certain, well-known, very special one.
>>44146889
>>44146924
>Imperial garbage pamphlet
>Somehow a valid source of information.
They don't have to retcon anything as far as that's concerned.
>>44148546
A lot of good bands sprung up from that generation that continue to inspire other bands today, but that's neither here nor there
>>44146418
This,considering Zeon wank that has plauged gundam in general
>>44144762
>had obvious Manga influence.
The only I know that would have this influence are like those OVAs back in the 80s and 90s like Cyber City Oedo, and then there's the Zeiram series by Keita Amemiya. Those ones clearly have influenced the Tau look.
>>44148925
What I mean is when GW hit a wall with developing a Faction, of which Squats & Necrons are the two prime examples, they will adjust that faction as they see fit so that they can release new units and/or codex to generate more profit, or in dire circumstances they will flat-out bin them. I don't need to point out which was which. If GW want a rise in profits they can, will and have adjusted the faction's lore to increase the scope of what can be done with them and then new stuff sells.
Yeah, I never got that vibe from Necrons either; to me they were pretty grim, just popping up at random, emotionlessly disintegrating/chopping/beaming everything they saw, silently, and then silently vanished again. They still do that but now they have actual leaders with personalities...hardly a deal-breaker?
>>44146978
I actually quite like that theory. That a single Old One came back, and has started tinkering again, trying to make a race that won't stab itself in the arse. This plan is already falling at the seams as Commander Charsight goes off and makes his own mini-empire, and now his effective mouthpiece has bitten it.
>>44147286
>I don't think anything changed in the regard of the Old Ones creating the Orks and Eldar for their war against the Necrons.
I still don't see why this made the Eldar so butthurt to begin with, their old myth cycles were always more theatrical than historically accurate.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what their original purpose was, they have a strong identity outside of it now.
What I think the real problem they had with the war in heaven fluff is that it made them no longer the center of the universe as they had been told at the begginning. (This also goes for the Imperial stuff, like the null gene and void dragon too)
>>44146874
Strongly hinted some branch of Eldar were the ones who created/ uplifted the etherals
