Is the new WoD game Beast the Primordial worth getting?
It's interesting but directionless.
>>44131251
What makes it directionless exactly? More so than other products?
>>44131496
The game, as written, doesn't give you a lot if reason to do anything as a Beast.
>>44132798
Yes and no, I'd say. You have plenty of reasons to do stuff as a Beast and you also naturally mingle the most with the setting as a whole than any other splat. But you definitely don't have a central pursuit or interest that drives the majority of Beasts or brings them together in larger groups (in part because they sensibly have no wide-spanning socio-cultural associations) or a big scary antagonistic figure (Heroes don't quite fit that part), and Beasts are more suited to private, personal narratives on a small scale.
Remember that Beast was also designed purposefully for crossover, so its full worth might naturally not show as a stand-alone.
Nah mate it's shit
>>44133872
Why?
>>44132798
>>44133494
Yeah, Beast works best when other monsters are there as a supporting cast. You don't necessarily need the other splat books though seeing as how the new core book has a monster building system.
>>44133913
Some people dislike it because they perceive a distinct "otherkin" vibe. It's not unreasonable, your soul is a monster of some sort, and it goes from there.
But really, it's not that your soul is a monster. When I read it, I find it more that "You are a nightmare that walks in the waking world" which is a neat concept, and Beasts' Lairs and Nightmare powers work off that theme very nicely, as do a few of their incidental abilities.
>>44133913
You are a human with a demon inside you, that's why you are different and the world hates you. All the good guys are really the bad guys, especially that guy Chad who plays football and gets the hot girls, fuck Chad.
>>44135756
This basically. It's like tumblr made a game about how they see themselves.
>>44135821
They see themselves as abusive monsters?
>>44133913
Because the game is supposed to present your character like Vampire: A monstrous creature that is also a person, and therefore not all bad.
However, like Witch Girls Adventures, some of the example characters are completely irredeemable cunts, and the game expects you to see their enemies as evil.
>>44136185
As victims of the world. They seem the supposed good guys as the evil ones and themselves as the misunderstood good guys fighting for a better world. This is them getting back at the shitlords, inflicting pain on them like society has been inflicting pain on the beasts.
>>44135756
Beast really doesn't put the protagonists as the "good guys". Honestly it mostly paints them as villains by necessity.
Beasts have to survive by victimizing the people around them. Some try to only victimize the "deserving", or try to use their predation as a way to teach someone a moral lesson.
A lot don't.
Your Beast might feed by making someone feel helpless. He could do that by finding where a woman lives, set up a signal jammer so her cell doesn't work, and then just lean against her front door grinning when she comes home late. "I know where you live. You're all alone, and no way to get help."
Or they could find a rapist and tie him up in the basement for a week, occasionally stroke his cheek and let him know what a purdy mouf he has.
Or furthermore they could mist up a bridge in the winter to form some black ice and feed off the momentary helplessness and panic as someone's car spins out and maybe they'll go off the bridge and die?
Doesn't really who gets it or why, as long as the beast gets fed.
Heroes are just the people who are compelled and supernaturally empowered to fight a Beast. They might be good people, but they're usually not.
>>44136341
>>44135821
>>44135756
>>44131229
It's Changeling: The Dreaming updated for vindictive cunts, essentially. Also used to contain an assload of shit that was just the director whining about "internet trolls".
>>44136451
It's important to bring up that Beasts can avoid feed on other people by throwing themselves headlong into monster society because they can feed vicariously through others and it's actually safer for them to do so.
>>44136655
Man, I wish Changeling the Dreaming was as good as beast.
"I am mankind's dreams of adventure!" By which I mean an african wandering storyteller.
"I am the dream of the craftsman!" I'm a hobbit.
Etc. At least Beast lets you branch out more and does more with the whole "dream" aspect.
>>44136451
>Beast really doesn't put the protagonists as the "good guys". Honestly it mostly paints them as villains by necessity.
It mainly paints them as the kind of bad guys but dicks (by the tone of the writing that is, if you read it the come off as irredeemable), who are getting their own back society and the popular ones as well as the ones who have bullied them. The heroes are usually people who have lucked out at life in a way that they usually are popular or rich etc. Sure you could pick on some bad guys but the way its written you usually go after bullies or innocents. It comes off as way too edgy and i would imagen it attracks the worst player base by the facts you are getting back at every one, especially Kevin Robinson. Heroes are people have been driven crazy and try to track down these beasts (that feed on humans) to kill them and some how these are the bad guys rather than the protagonists.
>>44136775
True, which would make for a fun story as it comes with its own set of problems.
Actually, one of the first Beasts I wrote was a Tyrant, feeds on the hunger of domination (makes people his bitch). He was written to work his way into Vampire society, so start off as just a thug or some hired muscle, prove himself and start getting more and more responsibility in the court. Start getting to be the boss of neonates and other people, at least as far as security goes. Enforce the prince's will through overt violence and intimidation. All the while feeding off of dominating the rest of the court and the people they're sent to clean up after, as well as passively feeding off of the feeding of the vampires around you.
One day, smile and let the prince know that the court only serves the prince because they fear the prince's "Lapdog", who will now be calling the shots from behind the throne.
Would it work? Prolly not. Vampire elders are crafty and dangerous. Would be cool to try.
>>44136889
>The heroes are usually people who have lucked out at life
One of them is a fat loser in a dead-end job, I think.
>>44136958
Isn't that the internet troll one, who was being mean to the beast online?
>>44136889
Beasts tend to be loners and outsiders, yeah. And you can certainly do your own revenge story with it (one of the hungers -is- Punishment, after all).
But just as many beasts are outright villains. Hell, the Beasts who follow the hunger for control are called "Tyrants" for fuck's sake. If anything that'd be becoming the thing you hate.
Also, where on earth do you get that heroes tend to be the "haves" to the Beast's "Have nots"? When I read it, Heroes were just as likely to be loners and outsiders as Beasts. Hell, the Hero from the inter-chapter fluff was a dweeby guy who got bullied and beat up in school.
>>44131229
So, which mental illness they chose for this book?I mean, WoD is obviously about people with mental disorders.
Also, if it's the cover, it looks like something from kids' cartoon.
>>44137071
>I mean, WoD is obviously about people with mental disorders.
Isn't Vampire just people with crippling addictions and in abusive relationships with a side of rape?
>>44136996
No, it's the 'milady' one. Thaddeus Pearson, p217.
http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1449964999
This is the second version the internet has seen, after the leak.
>>44137110
Well, yeah, I'm just exaggerating.
Mage is totally about megalomaniacs though.
WoD?
Do you mean CoD?
>>44137063
>But just as many beasts are outright villains. Hell, the Beasts who follow the hunger for control are called "Tyrants" for fuck's sake. If anything that'd be becoming the thing you hate.
They were originally (not sure now) trying for the anti-hero look where you evil power sounded dark and edgy and cool. J>>44137063
>Heroes were just as likely to be loners and outsiders as Beasts. Hell, the Hero from the inter-chapter fluff was a dweeby guy who got bullied and beat up in school.
Not in the original copy people usually(usually) had people gravitate to them and made friends very easily i think it may have been one of their powers(?) and the dweeb guy was basically a demonisation of 4chan users, most of them were guys who were living big or bullied them which this did fall under as 4chan "bullies" tumblr.
>>44137237
Hmmm. Re-reading the chapter fluff and I can see where you're getting that. But the problem is it's not really clear who the Hero is, except for one throw-away line.
The Beast is Ben. In the opening to Chapter 2, "Nightmares" he runs into some kid named "Kyle" who, along with two nameless goons is bullying a fourth character. Ben uses his supa Beast powa to defeat Kyle and scare off the two goons.
In Chapter 4 preface, "Kinship", Ben is on a date with a vampire and offhandedly recognizes the kid who was being beaten up in "Nightmares". Kid says his name is Ryan.
Then in the Chapter six preface "Hero", Ryan has become a Hero and ambushed Ben.
Honestly Ryan never gets any characterization. He mentions that Kyle and his goons are beating him up semi-regularly in the first point we see him. That's it. Second point he just waves a greeting from a crowd. And then suddenly he's in Ben's home.
I'm not sure how you made "4chan villain" out of that.
>>44137624
Thaddeus Pearson is much more of the fedora g8er.
>>44137673
Just read both descriptions of Thaddeus. In neither is it mentioned that he harasses people online.
Only change I could find was that he went from working in an office to working in a steel mill.
>>44137757
>he harasses people online.
That bit no, but he is pretty obviously a fedora.
>>44137624
I can't remember the specific examples but frankly I have no interest in rereading any of Beast. It was awful and disappointing, the basic premise was bad and the powers were awfully written. I'm sure a rare few people will like playing the game but I'm not one of them nor would I want to play with them.
>>44137810
Obviously.
What confuses me is that one sample NPC who wears a fedora and a trenchcoat suddenly turns the whole game into a revenge fantasy for Social Justice Warriors.
>>44131229
The game is about being a monster who's a nightmare, and a lot of its mechanics are based around nightmares. It's also the splat built explicitly for cross-over gameplay. If you think that sounds interesting, give beast a shot, if not you can skip it.
Just read it, and eh, it's not very good. The other books had strong themes and the main conflicts clearly developed. This one is about a life of otherkins in the modern concrete jungles. I don't hate it, but I think there are much nicer books around.
>>44137859
Did you read the revised version? There is still plenty to hate about it, but I'm sick of people bitching about what the game used to be.
>>44138505
And what it used to be? I only read the final version.
>>44131229
It's a game so bad that it brought tumblr and /pol/ together in hating it.
>>44138505
Only partially but I dislike the central themes, there is no amount of revising that can be done that would get me to like it. So I thought I never want to play it so why should I waste my time reading it?
>>44138576
The original version was straight up "you have a right to be an evil cunt who victimizes the innocent because it gets you off, and fuck anyone who tries to say you don't because THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE, MAN, THEY'RE JUST OPPRESSING YOU! WHO ARE THEY TO SAY YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO HURT WHOEVER YOU WANT"
Except it did all of this unironically, whereas, say, Vampire makes no illusions about them not being villainous for their victimization of humans.
>>44138505
Oh, old Beast.
>>44138653
That's what you get when you let women write books.
>>44138754
Matt McFarland is not female.
He also wrote Promethean, which was actually good, so nobody's really sure what the fuck happened with Beast.
>>44138754
Pretty sure Matt is a guy.
I stopped following after a while, but the thing I remember the most about the first version of Beast is how it seemed to be a cruel mocking of SJW believes. In the original Beast, the outcasts were all horrible people who hurt everybody else just by existing and who still claimed they were the victims even after horribly assaulting some kid who stole candies.
It was also a game about superior beings who could do no wrong and who were perfectly justified in trampling normal people and in going after those who tried to stand up to them and seek vengence for their horrible crimes.
It was basically a libertarian power fantasy badly disguised as a liberal power fantasy. It was so badly disguised that even Tumblr realized it and started turning against it.
>>44137159
I like it actually, I hadn't noticed how well most of the WoD stuff mapped on to psychological disorders or personality defects.
>>44138821
He's writing Promethean 2e, he wrote Demon.
>>44138866
And how is the new version?
>>44138891
Did he not write Promethean 1e? Who did?
>>44138909
Like I said, I stopped following after a while. I have no idea how much they changed it by the end, or if it's even finished at all.
>>44138909
In the new version Beasts are walking atavisms. They exist to teach "lessons" that helped primordial humanity but that humanity has since "forgotten" (because in the modern day and age, a lot of our old instincts and solutions are now actively detrimental to survival and success). Like "You should be afraid of the things in the dark", or "Don't trust anyone different from you".
They're still bad guys, but in a more interesting way that can still make you go "fuck those guys" without them being a shitty obvious standin for modern-day political positions and bullies who think they're the victims.
>>44138946
Sorry I missed that part.
>>44138976
So this >>44138711?
Literally otherkin trenchcoat-mafia Nottim Portant; the gameby this I mean the game evokes sociopathic violent themes, and caters towards the kinds of people that *need* to be put in fucking asylums
>>44138996
New Beasts are indeed meant to teach lessons. They genuinely think they're helping, while in fact they are making things much worse, because their lessons are intended for tribal hunter-gatherers and the like.
Shit, the stereotype of them from the fucking MUMMY is "I really don't think you guys are relevant anymore", and Mummy is a game about being an out of touch old fogey with Alzheimers.
>>44138891
Wasn't Rose Bailey lead on Demon? I get the impression McFarland can do good work but needs close supervision.
The problem with Beast isn't just that it lacks direction, or forces players to act out abusive relationship. That can be fixed in development. The trouble is that Beasts, as a type of monster, are kind of incoherent and utterly uncompelling. The premise is you're a human that's been partly taken over by a sort of spirit of nightmares, and you have to feed it by spooking people, and you get powers that vaguely evoke "primordial fears" like things that lurk in deep water. Compare this with the immediacy of "You're a vampire. You drink blood. You get superpowers and they're cool and every time you use them you have to refuel by inflicting injury on omeone else" or "you're a werewolf. you fight other werewolves and monsters from the spirit realm for reasons ordinary people can't comprehend, and sooner or later you're going to flip out and murder a whole lot of people, but you'll just have to live with that". And we're supposed to believe that Beasts, these weirdoes with a Freddy Krueger complex, are actually meant to be the ur-monster that gave rise to all the other horrible things people might become in the World of Darkness?
>>44139165
basically what I'm saying is, a game called Beast should be about being a literal dragon or the Minotaur or something and not another Geist-type setup where you get dragged behind the curtain but come back with superpowers and can carry on with your normal mortal life without really being inconvenienced at all.
>>44139165
>And we're supposed to believe that Beasts, these weirdoes with a Freddy Krueger complex, are actually meant to be the ur-monster that gave rise to all the other horrible things people might become in the World of Darkness?
I don't think we're supposed to believe that. We're supposed to believe that Beasts believe it, and that it's probably self-important delusion to compensate for the fact that they're fucking assholes who none of the other splats would actually like, outside of those games' dedicated bad-guy factions.
>>44139245
>a game called Beast should be about being a literal dragon or the Minotaur
That's what I wanted out of this game, but it seems like nwod is shying away from being physically monster compared to owod.
>>44139047
The mummy quote is great:
The View From Without: Menkhaf, Sesha-Hebsu
I remember your kind, but you seem…different. Unfocused. Hungrier, somehow. I saw you before, but you haven’t always seemed so desperate to feast. What is it that has changed? I think that people — living people — know too much. They have learned too much, and what they have not learned, they can create. I think that, perhaps, they don’t need your lessons anymore. So, of course, you must make yourself a purpose. It is terrible not to have a purpose. It is death.
This is the first time I have heard of Beasts, but is it really that bad? Honestly it sounds like there's a lot of potential here for the type of personal psychological horror nWoD is trying to hit. But just like everything WoD, it can be used to play some retarded shit. Playing a fedora "I am the victim not them I am a nice guy" faggot using Beasts is no different from guys using Vampire to be cliche Interview With A Vampire style melodramatic pieces of shit.
>>44139165
You're the boogeyman.
>>44139730
I guess. I mean great, if that's what people want. It really feels like a narrower niche than even mummies though.
But that's hardly fair because Mummy is just so fucking good. Why don't more games start you out as an autist with the power to level a city and make you grow into weakness and humanity?
>>44139730
But I could already be a whole range of Boogeymen in Changeling if I wanted. And Vampire with some branches of the Lancea Sanctum, come to think of it, right down to the "our holy purpose is feeding off / frightening the shit out of the sheep".
>>44139454
It's really not that bad. Some person or other decided to plaster it with his own personal boogeyman (Tumblr, SJW, whatever) and then kept whining and crying about it until the echo chamber managed to pick it up.
Hell, we even were trying to find an example of this crap and couldn't
>>44136341
>>44136451
>>44136775
>>44136889
>>44136889
>>44136936
>>44136958
>>44136996
>>44137063
>>44137149
>>44137237
>>44137624
>>44137673
>>44137757
>>44137810
>>44137912
>>44139350
Don't Beasts automatically start with "Good" relationship with supernatural species for no adequately explained reason?
>>44140121
So the case is just like everything else WoD. Decently nice enough systems. A few shitter "fans" that give it a bad name.
>>44140121
You don't need to be an SJW-screaming g8er to see that Beast is trash. A lot of people managed to reach that conclusion independently.
>>44140134
>Don't Beasts automatically start with "Good" relationship with supernatural species for no adequately explained reason?
Yes. Because otherwise, logically-speaking, everyone would hate them.
>>44140162
It can be a little directionless at times, sure. And it won't be everyone's cup of tea. But that's a far cry from being trash.
It's okay to not hate things you don't like. Try it sometime.
>>44140168
Hey, that's not strictly true. I mean, they'd get on like a house on fire with most of the antagonist monster groups. True Fae especially. Did they take out the bit in the newer drafts of them getting on really well with the Keepers and going hunting with them?
>>44140121
>entire panel about zie/xie/xir/quay pronouns
>Every other piece of fluff is a fully justified murderrape of a rapist or wife beater or other misogynist
>the entire Hero section is nothing but obvious "TOTALLY NOT 4CHAN" "lingo"
>I COULDN'T FIND A SINGLE EXAMPLE ANYWHERE
Clearly did not read the book.
>>44140191
That's an interesting perspective but it sounds like a boring way to live.
In any case, it evokes a strong reaction from me because it's a really disappointing addition to the new world of darkness from people who's work I have previouly admired. Every other game in the line presents a unique take on being an undercover monster complete with an intriguing mythos that just becomes more interesting by mixing and matching the different games. Beast is like someone came along and dropped a turd in the punch bowl. But then I think it's problems are a little deeper than being directionless.
>>44140275
Except as "the crossover splat" it's clearly intended for them to get along with the playable ones.
>>44140303
Alright, so provide some passages.
Put up or shut up.
>>44140306
Hey, it's cool if you find it disapointing. And I'll admit, it is a hell of a lot different than most WoD games which are more traditional monsters. I just think the whole dream shtick is cool. Lairs and creating Nightmares just really float my boat.
>>44140394
Those parts were cool, but they didn't make me want to play Beast. It just made me want to cut those parts out and give them to Changeling.
>>44131229
In the original vampire the beast was a metaphor for your animalistic blood lust (dirty secrets of the Black hand revealed that they were actual interdimensional parasites but we don't talk about that)
Does this book of any connection to that?
>>44141505
No.
>>44141542
....
Then why is it called beast then? Couldn't have come up with a unrelated name? It would be like if a Spiderman reboot changed his Secret identity to Tony Stark.
>>44141623
There's also Beast changelings, who are not really related either.
>>44141651
>>44141542
>The Beast refers to the innate demonic predator that awakens in each and every vampire upon their Embrace. The Beast stands in direct opposition to a vampire’s Humanity and is responsible for many of the debased urges Kindred feel on a nightly basis. In times of extreme duress the Beast can overwhelm a vampire and force him into a state of pure animalistic fight or flight, which is referred to as Frenzy.
I don't know man there's seem to to be enough similarities here with The Beast I think it's an issue.
They both meant to be the 'inner darkness' of man
>>44142013
>They both meant to be the 'inner darkness' of man
No, that's not what BtP is about.
>>44142029
Know that I intended to be evil but they do represent a certain primordial 'primal instinct' at odds with modern humanity, which is often how the beast in vampire is described.
>>44140134
>>44140168
That's actually referring to the social maneuvering rules. It effects how often you can make rolls.
>>44136655
>>44136807
I would love a new and updated version of Changeling: the Lost. I made a Changeling for a WoD group (mostly vampires played by edgelords) and the looks of horror and revulsion on their faces and I explained what being a Changeling meant were priceless.
>>44142728
It's being worked on.
>>44142728
I'm curious how you managed to horrify them so.
>>44142741
Awesome.
>>44142776
Imagine a human going about their daily business when suddenly they're kidnapped and dragged kicking and screaming by some -thing- to Arcadia, a technicolour nightmare realm. That person is beaten, raped, and tortured in various ways so badly and for so long that their very essence is warped into something -inhuman-. They're twisted into nearly mindless beasts, thrown into endless darkness, transformed into becoming part of the land itself, made into statues or toys for their masters, forced to become abusers in order to survive, or enslaved as craftsmen to work for eternity.
Most people who are taken go mad, or die, or start to -enjoy- what they've become. The ones who remember enough about their past lives escape, or are let loose, or even released just to toy with them. They make it out of Arcadia, back to our world, and find that they've been forgotten. Either they're considered dead or there's a fey thing in their place, living their life. Maybe they've been gone for twenty years, maybe it's been two hours. Time is weird in Arcadia. Oh, and to make it worse, they're decidedly NOT human any more, they're something alien and -wrong-.
But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that their former captors, the True Fey who had them kidnapped? They're the closest things to gods in this universe, and most of them don't like it when their toys escape. Every moment of every day a Changeling is looking over their shoulder, hoping that they haven't been found by their former 'master'. They can't even trust each other, because some Changelings are traitors who were only released on the condition that they sell out other runaway Changelings in return for more freedom.
Changeling is a game fundamentally about rape, abuse, and powerlessness in the face of insurmountable foes. It's about overwhelming stress and madness, and the ways that people cope with those feelings. A group of Changelings is basically a AAA support group.
>>44133913
Because Matt forgot to leave his soapbox at the door when he started writing, and boy does it show.
>>44143083
And that right there is why I love Changeling. Still wish the powers where a bit 'better'/I liked them more, but whatever it's still cool.
>>44143083
So how fucked is is Changeling 2e now that we saw what 'Blackhat' Matt Ward did with Beast?
>>44143586
Is Matt the lead developer on 2E CtL?
>>44142728
Did you mean Changeling the Dreaming? I don't see how Lost would terrify edgelords, they'd probably be into that.
Either way, they're working on new editions of both.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-changeling-the-dreaming-20th-anniversary-ed
>Beasts (who terrorise mankind to feed off their nightmares) are good.
>Heroes (who slay said beasts) are evil
Huh. This goes past the usual tedious 'my elfs are ugly and my Orke are beautiful' style subversiveness White Wolf offern attempts with it's writing. To literally claiming that Up is Down. Black is White. Good is Evil.
I think I need to go Roll a San Check desu.
>>44138871
Interesting. What are the other books about then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCENkwPiuU0
>>44143706
No, Hill is.
>>44143944
How trustworthy is Hill?
I'm impressed that the first draft of Beast managed to align both the left and the right wing against it by having such terrible taste and writing.
>>44143083
>A group of Changelings is basically a AAA support group.
There's a reason why the Seasonal Courts are based loosely off 4 of the 5 stages of grief. But yeah, being (and becoming) a Changeling is probably the worst fate of any of the different Player splats
>>44143976
Okay, so long as you're not terrible invested in his "Tokyo by Night"-mini setting for 2E nWod.
>>44144118
Is that uh, the Beast city setting where you have a Virtual Idol thats becomeing a prommie?
>>44143706
Isn't he one of the faggots that mods rpg.net?
>>44144092
Apparently, they're taking the whole "the Changeling condition is an allegory for abuse/rape survivors"-angle and pushing it even further in 2E.
>>44131229
>>44144118
This fucking thing
The All 7 Karaoke Club
The All 7 is a vocaloid night club in the Harajuku
neighborhood. It celebrates “Nana Natsu,” a digital creation,
a singer that doesn’t exist in the real world — at least, not yet.
To those Beasts nearby, they feel a strong sense of affinity to
Natsu, as if she were somehow kin. Many Beasts vie for control
of the club (and the surrounding block), hoping to hoard it as
part of a Lair.
To readers with Promethean: The Created, Natsu is on
the verge of becoming an Extempore. As she gains popularity,
the life around her may spark her with the Divine Fire.
Thanks Beast.
>>44144550
>they feel a strong sense of affinity to
Natsu
ie she is their waifu
right?
>>44144628
It means that Beasts are Hatsune Miku fans
>>44144550
Like I said, as long as you completely disregard everything he writes for the Tokyo cross-splat mini-setting, Hill is mostly good.
>>44144891
You know I honestly don't mind the Vampire/Werewolf and maybe Mage settings in Tokyo. Like I've heard that their racist or some shit, but I enjoyed there being factions other tha the main ones in diffrent geographical locations.
>>44144303
Sauce?
not being a cunt I tried to reverse search and got jack diddly shit
>>44145018
YuruYuri. I enjoy the anime, didn't actually know it was a manga series too. It's basically Lesbians:the Anime.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/M2p2ekN.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>44145101
>manga series too
>Lesbians:the Anime
>>44145101
That's actually Oomuro-ke, a spinoff of Yuru Yuri.
It features Sakurako's sisters.
>>44145244
Thank you, knowledgeable Anon.
>>44144220
Wait. So they're taking CtL's sometime nickname, "Abuse: The Therapy" and more-or-less making it litteral?
>>44143083
That's partially why I like it, it's dark, but you have a chance at redemption and making a life for yourself. It's what got me interested in WoD to begin with.
>>44145986
Well it was always pretty literal on the therapy part considering that whole thing about the courts being group therapy and the four stage of grief.
>>44144007
It was a great time for everyone.
>>44144007
>>44146929
It showed everyone how terrible their respective outer fringes can be. People tend to sober up when shown that.
>>>>44144007
How did it manage that? Seems impossible to fathom.
>>44136316
The fucks Witch Girl Adventures?
>>44148105
Teenaged girls get phenomemal cosmic power, then proceed to exact disproportinate retribution on everyone around them for even the smallest of perceived slights: the RPG.
>>44148394
Is there any redeeming value to it?
>>44148409
there is if you have a transformation fetish
>>44147245
Beast sets itself up as an LGBT metaphor - you're different and special inside, society at large doesn't understand you, you can find a new family of others who are like you and accept you for who you are. The main antagonists are supposed to be people who hate you for no reason, and the three statted examples are: trench coat and fedora wearing neckbeard stereotype; Christian mom; high school girl. It uses a lot of familiar language and concepts, and its clearly aimed at proggy people who spend all their time online (the advice for characterising Heroes, the baddies, is genuinely to model them on people you disagree with in online arguments).
The thing is, Beasts are genuinely unpleasant and Heroes are perfectly justified in what they do. Heroes in most of the drafts are actually only created because Beasts tortured someone until they snapped. The most compelling and well-liked character in the book, Melanie, is actually a hero, but the authors go out of their way to say that if you or your players even feel the slightest bit of sympathy for heroes you are doing it wrong . The LGBT stand ins are child torturing, abusive monsters that actively seek out lives to ruin, while the people they attack are sometimes dicks but not "poison them, break into their house, suffocate them with a plastic bag and then turn house into evil haunted funfair that you can torture them some more in later" dicks. This is all compounded by the fact that mechanically, Beasts are so ridiculously overpowered compared to heroes that it just muddles the themes even more.
Its pic related, basically.
>>44148415
Is this a shitty ripoff of Magical Burst or something?
>>44148415
Its not even good for that though, you don't physically change at all unless you get to the Bad End unplayable stage. You're just kind of an asshole with magical abuse powers. I'd say it was Changeling the Dreaming mk. 2 in terms of Otherkin-who-really-need-therepy wish-fulfilment, but that is (and I can't believe I'm saying this) unfair to CtD.
Wait, shit, sorry I thought you were talking about Beast and not the Witch Girl thing, my bad, ignore me >>44148484.
>>44148417
Is that an actual panel from goblins?
If so the arts has really improved.
>>44148105
>>44148409
Probably the only RPG to be aimed at tween girls rather than the males who are teenagers in the 80s.
Like DnD it panders to the power fantasy pretty directly. Only rather than being a master of the deadly arts and killing things, it's being able to turn that girl who made fun if in gym into a toad
It's a one major redeemer feature is that it's probably the best system to do the magic school style settings.
>>44131229
>is Onyx Path product worth buying
No.
Always no.
>>44144207
yes
>>44136889
Heroes aren't driven crazy by beasts, nor are created by them. It's possible to be a perfectly nice, Knight in shining armour hero who's there by necessity. I don't read any of the 'edgy' or 'getting back on people who bullied me' vibes, esepcially on the latest version.
The antagonist hero tends to be just as bad as the monsters they claim to fight, happily sacrificing the innocent if it furthers their hunt. Or it is in my game anyway.
>>44148417
>LGBT metaphor.
I don't get that conclusion at all!
Oh and the high school girl isn't really a villian, either and not necesarily antagonisitic to you.
>>44148484
You automatically transform when you make a primordial pathway. You phsycially shapeshift into your full horror's form.
Walk in to a maze and BAM, you're a minotaur or some shit.
>>44148909
You could just read it as a Tumblr metaphor, if that works for you.
>>44149020
I don't get that either. It's either too /pol/ or too tumblr. If anything it seems to be a litmus test of how you read things.
>>44142728
>I would love a new and updated version of Changeling: the Lost
There's one being made right now.
Unfortunately it's being helmed by David A. Hill.
>>44150933
>Can we stop using it?
Whehehe, sheeeit.
>>44151046
He does eventually recant his belief that waifu is racist after someone successfully convinces him otherwise.
>Mummy incredible but completely ignored
>Demon pretty good but hated by idiots who want it to be DtF
>Beast shit all around
Life is suffering.
>>44151491
Demon is really good though. It has really strong themes in it. Not really fit for crossovers, if you ask me. Works best as a standalone setting.
>>44151602
I'm a huge slut for spy stuff and Demon is really fun. It's a shame the God-Machine throws people into fits.
>>44151491
>Exalted 3rd ends up much better than expected, even after all the dev drama
>>44151621
>God-Machine throws people into fits
Why? It's a perfect mix of Lovecraftian horror and Biblical God.
>>44151658
A bunch of morons misread the God-Machine as something that now secretly runs every single game behind the scenes, trivializing everything.
>>44151691
Well, that's exactly why Demon should be played as a standalone game. Because God-Machine interferes with most Mage cosmological stuff (they try to explain it and make a hierarchy of sorts, but it looks like two different worlds) and Vamp/Werewolf power levels.
>>44151691
That's because for a while between 1e and 2e the God Machine WAS the core rulebook, which is was baseline for every single game in 1e.
>>44151645
Yeah but who cares about Exalted right now, all you can play is a solar faggot. Tell me how good it is when we get to a better type of Exalted.
>>44153171
Solars are still pretty cool senpai
>>44153500
I've been uh... Kinda ruined on them after hearing nothing but hate/horror stories about them. An can someone explain the senpai thing, like I know the meaning of the word but why is it being used around 4chan so much now?
>>44153552
No Idea desu.
>>44153552
There is/was a wordfilter and one of them was from f.a.m. to senpai. Just like weeaboo, it stuck, even after the wordfilter dropped.
>I've been uh... Kinda ruined on them after hearing nothing but hate/horror stories about them.
God you're a weak-willed faggot.
>>44153552
The issue with Solars is that they're the strongest, and also the simplest and meant as an intro to the setting, so they get obnoxious fanboys who are new to Exalted and rpgs in general as a result.
Still not as bad as Lunar fans, IMHO.
>>44153619
Nah I'm just a faggot that has had his expectations colored by a solely negative point of view with zero positive things said about Solars. The Solar wank is real and I don't want none of it.
>>44153713
So a your a weak-willed faggot.
>>44153713
>Solar wank is real
I've heard horror stories about Solars too, but I find that most people complaining about "Solar wank" are bitching not about unreasonable deference payed to Solars but the mere fact that "People claim Solars are the strongest Exalt, his makes them wanky. Why aren't Lunars/Siddies/DBs/etc. equal to them?"
Which is bullshit, because thats part of the setting's core ideas. Sol is the greatest Incarnae. The Usurpation happened because the Solars were in charge of the world and went crazy, etc.
>>44136936
you'd get offed by day two either by the head honcho who sees through your plan or from one of the magical ones who see you as a threat. Or a friendly malk will make a very long "just as planned" to make you everyones bitch just for laughs. Vampires are beter at scheming and ploting than every other race
>>44143083
it can be about abuse, but it can also be about growing up.
When I played it we very much stressed the, "you were kidnapped in adolescence" part. You were a child, but now you aren't. You aren't innocent anymore.
That it's more than just the horror of the gentry possibly taking you back, it's about having to live with what you are now in the world.
>>44151491
I just want to run Promethean once in my life.
Just once.
>>44156526
It'll never happen homie, Prommie a dead game. everyone loves it no one plays it.
>>44150933
Didn't someone to give a really good rebuttal to it.
>>44157457
Yes. Some Japanese guy told him that it was from an anime, and to stop trying to impose his culture on the Japanese by telling them what to be offended by.
>>44157534
What was Davids argument in the first place, like how did he get racist/sexist out of waifu? Is this like that game reviewer or whatever that called the Dragon's Crown Sorceress a loli?
>>44157586
It's "racist" because Engrish.
It's "sexist" because ?????
He doesn't seem to realize that "waifu" is just a silly word people started using to describe a preexisting phenomenon (people getting crushes on/developing romantic feelings for fictional characters).
He doesn't seem to realize that women do that all the time too (hence most self-insert fanfiction), I guess, if he thinks it's sexist?
Or is he confusing it with the "real women are disgusting money-grubbing whores, 3DPD" contingent?
>reposting so I can bitch in this thread too and meet my whinging quota
Between Changeling 2e, Beast, CoD, and Exalted 3e, I've pretty much given up on any WW/OP release.
>>44156666
New edition coming out soon. It's been neck-in-neck with Mage throughout production.
>>44157753
Oh I know there's a new one coming out, but I'm skeptical for now. Not sure how I feel about them making it easier to stay in one place by having wastelands/disquiet only get triggered by certain things.
>>44157792
>making it easier to stay in one place by having wastelands/disquiet only get triggered by certain things.
That's fucking retarded.
>>44157831
http://theonyxpath.com/disquiet-and-the-wasteland-everything-and-everyone-hates-you/
The article it's talked about in
>>44158231
Fucking retarded.
>>44158780
I get why they did it, wanted to make it more accessible an shit to the people that couldn't get into the wandering theme. But man, yeah, it's fucking retarded.
So outside of Heroes what cool "antagonists" are there for Beast? Has anyone came up with any cool ones?
>>44158990
I bet one of the other books about Beasts will invent something new to fill that void. That is, if Beast doesn't die alongside OPP's sales this next year.
>>44158990
Coolest thing I can think of is just fucking off into the primordial nightmare, turning into your god damn true forms and fighting other nightmare creatures. Might be a lil to Kaiju for WoD but, well, Beast is alredy fucked on trying to have any horror to it.
>>44158990
Other Beasts.
As an aside, having a relatively low-powered supernatural splat that doesn't have the historical/cultural baggage of vampire or werewolf could be absolutely fantastic, and a useful toolkit (I mean, something other than Scion or Aeon), but BtP is just so... disappointing.nWoD: Metal Gear when?
>>44159227
>relatively low-powered supernatural splat that doesn't have the historical/cultural baggage of vampire or werewolf
Isn't this sort of what's going to happen with Deviant, probably?
>>44159303
Yeah, we'll see. Also, since Onyx announced that they are at least going to attempt to do a Hunter 2e, that might be a fit as well.
>>44158231
I dislike basically all of these changes. The fact that Prometheans are inherently harmful and don't belong in the world was the whole driver behind the need to become human.
>>44159227
You mean Deviant?
I fucking pray that Deviant is good, seems like it might be a nice in to WoD cyberpunk. Rather play stroyteller cyberpunk than learn the clusterfuck that is Shadowrun's system.
>>44156526
I'd play it, but after some really bad experiences I just never want to play Wod with people from /tg/ again. I do not appreciate being part of some weirdo's wank fantasy.
And it's a huge shame, because Promethean was the very first wod book I bought. I'd love to play it and go on road trip adventures.
>>44157676
Sounds like he wasn't thinking at all.
>>44159580
At least you can just cut out all the shit and use the good parts? Make a nice ol 1.5 frankenstien Promethean homerule.
