I feel like Elven fighter are not played a lot, and when they are they're always a DEX build and archers or duar sword rangers.
I would imagine that in elven societies there would be a least a sizable portion of melee fighters. Why under represent Elven fighters?
Because elves are not usually known for their brute strength?
Also people forget that the common conception of the elf is mostly still living in the forests and pelting invaders with arrows; they don't usually do the whole industry thing enough to get full plate armor or train on warhorses and stuff like that.
It depends on what kind of elves you are going for though, strong elves could totally work well as high elves or even wood elves, it just depends on how you play and characterize elves.
My setting doesn't even fucking have any elves.
I would imagine a lack of STR bonus and their DEX bonus. I play a switch-hitter elven fighter who mostly two-hands an elven-curve blade with 19 STR and 16 DEX. Lucky rolls and an early investment in a belt of giant's STR.
Because if they were strong as well as dextrous then the dwarves would have nothing. They purposefully gimp themselves because they don't want to make the dwarves feel bad.
>>44125408
>Because elves are not usually known for their brute strength?
Wasn't there an elf that fought Morgoth 1V1 and their' missed blows were leaving craters wherever they struck the ground?
>>44125408
Brute strength, in sword to sword combat, is a lot less important than dexterity and finesse.
So really elves should have a leg up on most other races.
>>44125426
That's a Tolkein elf, which are objectively better than humans in every way.
>>44125408
In most of the settings I've played their longevity and low numbers lets them pretty much live off the land and not have to bother with things like industry. But they still have blacksmithing and are almost as good as Dwarves in terms of craftsmanship but they have fewer numbers.
Elves are usually forest dwellers, most of the time because they're part-fae. Elven societies mostly intergrate with nature where as Dwarve carve their homes into mountains and hills, human build walls around wooden and stone dwellings and half-lings burrow into dirt to obscure themselves from the rest of the world.
Elves hide in trees, attack with hit and run tactics and are generally describes as graceful so there is a tendency to just make them all dex builds.
I'm OP and I'm very drunk and have replied several times to my own thread everytime I come up with an idea of my own, sorry for same fagging
>>44125430
Except if the common elf is 20% weaker then most average humans its more then considerable enough of a difference that the dexterity will make up for it.
So yes, elves with rapiers and dexterious fighting makes perfect sense, but they already do that in every setting anyway, so I'm not seeing an issue here.
>>44125408
This kinda bullshit tends to come from people who haven't done archery.
All a bow does is store and convert energy from your arms and back, you need to be strong to use it (especially in combat). The maneuvers you need to use to fire each arrow are practically identical so Dex isn't really a suitable stat.
Meanwhile swords have a huge range of motion and technique making Dex more important than with bows, and while Str will obviously be vital you don't always need the same brute strength required to draw the bow.
>>44125384
It's a shame considering one of the best fantasies with Elves, the Silmarillion, is full of Elven fighters who absolutely wreck shit.
There absolutely should be more Feanors and Filgolfins in our games.
>>44125716
At not a single point did I say that bows using dex was right, however you need to realize that aim and quickness are more important with bows then just being able to pull the string, and not all bows are gigantic war bows.
A simple hunting bow that sets an arrow between the eyes of an oncoming enemy is plenty effective for a effeminate elf defender. Stop being a memer and trying to reinvent the wheel.
>>44125426
That was Fingolfin, and he was a magnificent princeling.
Fuck Melkor, remove evil.
Assuming dungeons and dragons, because elves get a bonus to dex, meaning they would excel at using light weapons and archery.
Even ignoring dungeons and dragons, elves are typically cast as more elite soldiers less willing to sacrifice their already sparse numbers in direct conflict (ie. melee). They would leverage their mobility and perception to act as scouts and snipers, in hopes of bleeding opponents out, forcing them towards traps, using magical solutions, and so on.
>>44125384
Because elves are for raping
What's the problem with DEX fighters? I don't see a problem with elves being able to use the same weapons as humans, and I love WH High Elves for those kind of troops OP posted, but being a more skillful, precise, fast, whatever, while being less able to take hits themselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought elves should have -1 CON, not -1 STR.
>>44125887
It's not DEX fighters, it's having elves always be pure DEX fighters.
>>44126121
Except in OPs image.
Because the game typically gives elves bonuses to dex and not strength, and working against your stat bonuses is ill advised in most games.
Class based games pin you into certain stereotypical archetypes, go figure
You know what's really underrepresented? Elf barbarians
>>44125887
you are wrong
elves practically always have a penalty to constitution
>>44126121
A full-bab Courtblade-wielding elf with a high dex but a pretty good strength, and using power attack, is common enough to be a thing.
>>44126568
>you are wrong
>elves practically always have a penalty to constitution
>Correct me if I'm wrong
>I always thought elves should have -1 CON
Basically:
>Correct me if I'm wrong
>Isn't it A?
>You are wrong
>It's A
>>44126598
...you were wrong in thinking that they don't?
>>44126568
Except for in the last two editions of D&D, Shadowrun, etc.
>>44126609
He was thinking that they do
>>44126609
I have a hangover. Please don't make this difficult for me.
I said they should have a thing. You said I'm wrong because mostly they have the thing.
![119wjdw[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SAClSQA.jpg "119wjdw[2].jpg")
>>44125384
>Why under represent Elven fighters?
In most settings elves are depicted as very fragile creatures. 3.5e had some racial variants including the wild elves who, I think, got a STR bonus but an INT penalty rather than a DEX bonus and a CON penalty.
Personally I believe wood elves should be somewhat on the stronger side, about as strong as humans or perhaps even a little strongerso I can live out my amazonian brown elf hunting for a human husband fantasy.As for the high elves, I'm fine with them being fragile. I usually fluff it in such a way that their warrior class rely on a mix of melee combat prowess and magic. All their soldiers are pretty much gishes.
In my "Elves are Romans" setting that's pretty much how they gained dominance: infantry and cavalry gishes. They usually delegate other roles to the races they have subjugated (human archers (I know, counterintuitive right?), wood elf skirmishers and dorf artillery for example).
>>44126619
>>44126642
I'm not trying to be autistic here, but he said:
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought elves should have -1 CON, not -1 STR."
It was implied that he thought they had -1 str, but SHOULD have -1 con.
I'll shutup regardless.
>>44126809
Ian?
>>44126322
One of my favourite characters was an elf Barbarian.
The problem is really only in D&D, because D&D settings tend to be all same.
>>44126833
Now I get it. Sorry,should havemade it more clear.
>>44126839
Nope, sorry.
>>44125430
>Brute strength, in sword to sword combat, is a lot less important than dexterity
eh, it'd be better to be dextrous than clumsy, but strength is significantly important
>>44126809
>In most settings elves are depicted as very fragile creatures
If you only count D&D settings, sure
>>44125384
Even if I play D&D, I consider their rules to be abstractions of the "real thing", not a Bible. Mainly because they do not translate well into reality like certain anons point out.
None of the elven races in my setting depend only on archery, but usually have it.
Militia use both spear and bow like ancient iranians, for they also fight nomadic mounted troops.
"Cretan archers" with good bows and secondary melee.
Even solid, armored infantry may have some javelins to throw before combat.
Most of their cavarly is flexible, having spear, sword, bow and mace.
And the heavy shock cavarly also grinds melee very well, suitable for fucking up archer-based armies like other elves who didn't catch up on the arms race, rebels and so on.
Dark elves use chakrams for both melee and ranged combat, using their superior agility to throw it with hands and feet.
Well thats the rub isnt it...
If we talk about the elves known for archery, they should be buff and muscular as fuck.
>>44127638
eh, everybody always goes straight to english longbowmen with this shit.
You ever see those danish archer videos? I think that's more how elves would be.
>>44125458
Except for succeeding at least things, they need humans or hobbits for that
Elves in Fantasy Craft have three roles that they can fill because of their good wisdom, long range attack penalty removal, and good wisdom yet again.
The first is swordsman because of the one free Anticipate check per round on an enemy you've hit and the mook killing trick at Supremacy.
The second is any ranged weapon user, since they don't suffer range penalties at 2nd and 4th range increments, making them good sharpshooters.
The third is wizard, since your spell library is based on your wisdom score you gain a lot more spells for free.
They all suffer from the same drawback, low vitality replinishment and a -2 to constitution.
>>44125706
Rapier is one of the most STR-reliant one-handed swords IRL.
>>44127721
As long as you're not referring to the 'ancient lost secrets of Legolas archery' imbecile.
>>44125408
Actually, the common perception of elves for casuals is more along the lines of Rivendell shit or even WHFB High Elf style stuff. Either that, or diminutive trickster type beings.
Dirty forest elves are really something nerds know about more than casuals. Even after the LotR films. Casuals associate elves more with magic and elegance than trees, and when they associate them with nature, they don't tend to think of them as a semi-mundane society that happens to live in a forest.
>>44128692
oh, I am, motherfucker
>>44126809
>In most settings elves are depicted as very fragile creatures.
And fuck those jokes. A proper Elf is the favored child of the gods, and will BTFO virtually anything in a 1v1 fight barring lesser angels or incredibly powerful human warriors.
>>44125384
Honestly?
It's just because they're harder to optimize. I mean, RPGs aren't all about creating the most potent killing machine, but you generally want your character to be able to keep up with the rest of the party. This is exacerbated in D&D due to the way it works as a system.
Elves generally don't have bonuses in the values that determine how well you hit stuff with big swordy weapons, so they'll simply never be as good as certain other races are. An elf rogue is always going to end up more effective than an elf fighter.
>>44125706
The common elf in fiction isn't really 20% weaker than most average humans, though. In fact, they're generally stronger or at peak human condition. Or, if you're going from something like Tolkien, they aren't necessarily any stronger or weaker, but they have a vague supernatural power that allows them to hit with disproportionate force.
D&D's demodifiers in earlier editions are pretty much just mechanical things that enforce balance, and are an abberation from the way elves actually are in most fiction.
>>44126322
>Here we see, in his unabashed love of costumed LARPing, young Willem Dafoe.
>>44127721
IMO they should be able to do both.
They just don't have as big muscles. Elves are sleek and slender, but not necessarily weak. Smaller muscles =/= weaker muscles.
Most people seem fine playing generic characters like elf ranger or elf wizard. The ones whoa re trying to subvert generic race/class combinations go for more unusual stuff like elf barbarian or dwarf wizard. I guess elf fighter isn't as interesting as those.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429430-Races-Remix-(PEACH)&p=19567638#post19567638
r8 and deb8 my 8 r8ces
(actually 9)
>>44129049
Wood elves are crazy forest loving savages in half their depictions; the lack of actual barbarians among them is bizarre.
The norse king of dwarves was a powerful wizard and Shadowrun dwarves actually favor mage builds.
It's not that these things are subversions, it's that D&D is a crazy nonsense land that has perverted these races into something else entirely.
