GURPS or FATE?
GURPS probably has a rule for how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop.
FATE probably doesn't.
Ergo, GURPS > FATE.
>>44115482
Im sure you love to lick Steve Jackson
>>44115469
GURPS if you like simulationism, or tactical operators operating tactically. FATE if you don't.
GURPS if you want to play "realistic" tacticool operators tracking equipment weighs, hit locations, and "how this would REALLY play out if this was real life," and if you want to have to change tons and tons of rules for each setting.
FATE if you want to be more loosey-goosey, "tell a story," and work off "cinematics" and "rule of cool" without having to change much about the rules for each setting.
>>44115498
Can we already stop with that "le gurps is le simulationist xddd bazinga" meme?
GURPS
Fate needs special dice to play
GURPS only needs a handful of fragility sex and the graduate high school level understanding maths
>>44115469
GURPS. It's not that dense of a system if you do like you're supposed to and only use the relevant rules, and the modularity means that different genres will actually feel a bit mechanically different, rather than just a reskin.
RISUS.
>>44115469
Cypher System.
>>44115539
I don't think you know what a meme or simulationist means.
Depends. They're both universal, but have really different feels/flavors. You could run more or less the same sort of campaign in both and it would play completely differently.
Gurps for comabt focused games, Basic roleplay for a story/atmospheric game, and fate for stuff that's in the middle.
>>44115469
They do completely different things, so it depends on what sort of game you want to run.
That said, Fate has less overhead, so personally I'd go with that.
>>44115498
GURPS is terrible at simulating everything. If you want realism, steer clear.
It is fantastic if you love detail for the sake of detail though, which is the kind of mindset that leads people to be dedicated gun nuts, or fans of anything really. That guy who was on here a year or two ago trying to homebrew a roleplaying game with the most comprehensive firearms system possible, was probably a GURPS fan.
>>44117167
That makes no fucking sense. BRP is pretty much GURPS with different design choices (decimal, percentage, wider skills, after-the-fact damage effects, etc.) and fewer options.
Risus.
>>44116774
>Fate needs special dice to play
Or you can just roll a d6 and convert
1-2 = (-)
3-4 = ( )
5-6 = (+)
It shouldn't matter what numbers you assign each symbol if your dice are fair.
Savage Worlds
Are there any decent universal/highly adaptable systems with no or "open source" copyright?
Totally different systems for totally different tastes.
The correct answer is whichever your group prefers.
>>44118008
Risus for none
Fate for open source
>>44115469
D20
>>44116774
>a handful of fragility sex
That sounds a lot harder to come by than FUDGE dice, given that I haven't the foggiest clue what it even is exactly.
>>44118069
Nice, I wasn't sure there were any. What are they like compared to each other and/or DnD 2nd/3rd (only systems I'm familiar with don't hit me?
>>44116862
>It's not that dense of a system if you do like you're supposed to and only use the relevant rules
I see this argument all the time, but frankly I think it's the most misleading thing ever. I'm sure it's absolutely true that the full set of rules you actually need to run a given campaign is a tiny fraction of the full set of stuff out there, but on the other hand the whole business of "only using the relevant rules" is easier said than done. Because you kind of need to be familiar with what all the potentially relevant rules are in order to decide which ones to use for your setting. And that is not a non-trivial body of rules to go through, even just to skim for things that look promising.
Like, suppose I'm wanting to run some manner of fantasy game. I may not need all of the dozens of books in the GURPS library, but if I were to narrow it down to a shorter list of titles that look like they'd possibly have useful rules, it's still pretty damn daunting. In addition to the core books, I'm definitely going to want GURPS Fantasy, maybe also GURPS Magic (because, as an outsider not already familiar with the content, I have no idea how in-depth the core books and Fantasy go in terms of stuff for magic).
I'm sure this would probably suffice to run a basic, generic fantasy campaign, and so far it's not bad, but the whole pitch for GURPS is the ability to tailor it to specific campaigns, so I'm going to assume I want something non-generic, and in that case I'm going to want to look at more books. Thaumatology to expand on the magic, perhaps Martial Arts and/or Powers for martial heroes of mythic proportions, Low-Tech for gear, and then 16 entries in the Dungeon Fantasy series (counting Monsters, not counting the Mirror of the Fire Demon adventure). Potentially also a couple other books depending on the specifics of the campaign.
Even if I won't end up using all of the content in all of these books, that's still a lot to process in setting up a campaign.
>>44117429
Still for such a simple universal system it failed at the gate if you need to use non-standard dice...
Savage Worlds
Fate… sells it's self as the role playing game for people who don't like role playing games. It just oozes a sort of out sider elitism to it. It's doesn't value or appreciate the hobby.
>>44118008
If you want a game with so much player agency it makes Fate look like cWoD there's Donjon.
If you want an extremely simple game with billions of house rules there's Risus.
If you like the dice rolling mechanics of Fate, but want something thicker there's FUDGE.
If you want a system that already has tons of published proprietary content under it but later went open there's Open D6.
There are others that I either can't remember off the top of my head or haven't heard of. Just google "open source tabletop systems" and look for keywords like "universal" or "setting agnostic".
I've looked at a bunch of open source systems and my favorite has to be Dominion Rules. There isn't anything statted for space/modern stuff, but it's so easy to work with you could write up a sci-fi convert of Dominion Rules. Here's a sample that explains the gist of it.
>>44118506
I really don't understand why GURPS doesn't just go with an open license and have a full wiki available for all the shit that has been published by Steve Jackson Games for GURPS. It would remove the stigma that GURPS is hard to set up almost entirely, and it's possible that having all the great resources GURPS has for whatever campaign you feel like it could finally kill D&D's dominance on the market.
>>44125672
Probably because GURPS is already .pdf only and having it free would kill their revenues on GURPS. Meanwhile, D&D books still sell by the thousands, in stores.
>>44125703
Their revenue is suffering BECAUSE nobody wants to have to purchase and sort through all the books to find the stuff that they like. There are other revenue models besides selling pdfs.
Risus is okay for a generic rules lite game, but even the few rules it has are really awkward. Rolling Xd6 makes most dice results very predictable, so odds tend to break down as "almost certain to succeed" or "almost certain to fail", which is far too binary for my tastes. There are some alternate rules out there that try to fix this.
>>44116774
Fate works just as well if you roll 1d6 - 1d6. Easy to do and with the most generic of dice.
>Join a GURPS game because everyone keeps mentioning it so I figure why not, time to form my own opinion
>Metal Gear Solid style game, we're some PMC recruits going through a training simulator or something
>GM whips out a hexmap of an island where we have to accomplish some objectives
>Rolls for every hex we go across, we can only clear like 4 before we're out of FP so we have to camp for a while or risk being SOL when we inevitably hit combat
>One guy plays a sniper, his shtick is getting to fire one shot every 20 rounds, fun
>Other guy plays a nuffin personnel ninja with a sword who runs around slicing and dicing everything until he's spotted and then he gets filled with holes
>I play a "psychic" with some medical skills premade the GM made for me after getting completely lost trying to build my own character
>Can legitimately not figure out what my power even does
>Six hours later, we've fought 3 combats against mooks yet only accomplished half our objectives because constant rules arguments and 5 minutes spent every 10 minutes trying to find some rule to reference for one thing or another
>Tell the GM I'm sorry but the game's not for me and bail
It's one of those systems that looks like it'd be decent if you had a computer chip for a brain instead of mushy meat, but for us non-autists, it just tends to be a lot of endless rules checking and arguments. It wasn't the worst game I've ever played, but it was pretty boring.
>>44125604
>If you want a game with so much player agency it makes Fate look like cWoD there's Donjon.
Sounds gay but tell me more or throw up a rulebook or something.
>>44125931
http://open.crngames.com/src/donjon.html
The gist of Donjon lies in its mechanic for rolling. You get a number of dice for the amount of points you have in a thing, and then you roll a SHITLOAD of d20s against the GM's d20s for just about every roll. Whoever gets the highest number on their dice wins the roll (if both have the same highest number you work your way down the dice until somebody eventually gets a number higher than the other). The winner gets a fact for each dice greater than or equal to the highest number rolled of the opponent, these are basically your "successes". The fact can be anything related to the roll, and then the losing side has to narrate what happens with the facts.
Once the facts have been stated the losing side has to narrate the result of the roll using the facts given... however, anything that is not specifically defined can be twisted, and the GM's job is to almost serve as an evil genie and twist facts as much as they can in order to fuck the player over as much as possible. Without that Donjon wouldn't have any challenge.
>>44125972
Also I should add that if the GM wins the roll the player has to narrate their character fucking up, but the evil genie rule still applies. You want to twist the GMs facts as much as possible because you want your character to survive.
>>44115539
holy shit can we stop with the posts that call every critique on GURPS a meme? GURPS got a rule for everything, so if you like to simulate every detail, rather than glossing over it, it's the obvious choice.
If you want a system where you don't have to have thought of an extremely specific skill at chargen to do anything out of the ordinary without huge mali, then it's not that good for you.
>>44121122
you don't is his point
>>44121122
???
How does it follow?
>>44124915
Projecting much?
Have you ever read a Fate book?Can you even read?
>>44126024
I sort of agree on the tone for Fate Core and Fate Accelerated being kind of weird, but I don't think it's bad system.
>>44126044
If GURPS overtly math focused, FATE too far in the other direction. The world the game creates lacks any coherent sense of logic about how it's supposed to work. It feels like theatre sports with dice rolls.
>>44126013
It doesn't, he has no idea what he's talking about. Fate isn't really that rules light and the best selling RPG of all time relied on dice nobody but math teachers into obscure educational catalogs had ever heard of.
>>44126219
Fate feels like theater because it's meant to emulate theater; more specifically it's meant to emulate all traditional media including plays, novels, and movies.
This means it runs on story logic rather than real world logic. It encourages the most entertaining of the plausible options rather than the most likely.
That's obviously not for everyone, but I wouldn't call it incoherent.
>>44126044
Well, when I think about pretentious writing in games, Fate is not the one that comes to mind. Core is very terse in its writing, and Accelerated is actually aimed at non-roleplayers so a lot of handholding is to be expected.
>>44125998
holy shit can we stop with the posts that call every critique on 3rd edition a meme? 3rd edition got a rule for everything, so if you like to simulate every detail, rather than glossing over it, it's the obvious choice.
If you want a system where you don't have to have thought of an extremely specific skill at chargen to do anything out of the ordinary without huge mali, then it's not that good for you.
>>44126332
That doesn't even work in the slightest
>>44125604
>>44125972
Guy who asked about open source systems here: Thanks a ton for the info. You're the best!
>>44126776
If you like historical fiction to low-fantasyI highly suggest reading Dominion Rules
>>44125925
This is an example of GM that tried to use too many rules from GURPS with players that don't bother reading them.
3 out of 5 people in my group practically don't read anything related to the system we are playing. Even if it's a simple one page guide, to let them know the ropes of combat, which usually is the most complex part of the system.
Don't know how it is with other groups, but I sort of learned that I just use whatever rules work for me and then improvise from there.
>>44118506
Fucking this
>>44125672
>could finally kill D&D's dominance on the market.
I dont think anything will ever do that. And if it does, it won't be a generic system.
>>44118506
You are literally complaining that GURPS has a book to handle each of the different aspects of your super-specific campaign setting and that you have to actually read them if you choose to use them.
>>44115469
GURPS for realistic simulationism, FATE for everything else.
>>44129811
D&D will never be dethroned, but the main reason why many players continue to introduce people to tabletops with 3.5/PF is because of the wikis the two offer thanks to their open license. I don't like D&D, but wikis seriously make things a hell of a lot easier for new players to learn systems.
>>44130139
Fate has an OGL/SRD too, and is imo a good game, but it's never going to dethrone D&D in any case.
>>44129843
>Super-specific
>Literally used generic fantasy as an example
You GURPSfags are so full of shit.
He's complaining that GURPSfags like you tout out this "IT'S NOT DENSE, LOOK YOU ONLY NEED SIX PAGES OF RULES" bullshit when if you try to set up your own campaign you have to go through the process of learning at least a little bit of at least 2 other rulebooks 200 pages long, likely more. As his example goes, you could easily justify having to look at around 5~ of them.
And that's daunting. Part of being a newbie to GURPS is that you *don't* know what you do and don't want. And all this content to sift through so you can actually decide what you want is daunting, to the point where trying to claim it's not "dense" is purely misleading tripe.
GURPS was made for other GURPSfags, simple as that.
>>44131096
>Literally used generic fantasy as an example
>post clearly says "the whole pitch for GURPS is the ability to tailor it to specific campaigns, so I'm going to assume I want something non-generic"
Protip, non-generic is the opposite of generic.
The people who complain about GURPS tend to be semi-illiterate like you.
If you're a newbie GM and you want to make a complex setting that requires you to go through half a dozen books, the problem isn't with the system; it's with you.
I don't even know why anybody would approach this as "I need to read everything to decide what I want." No, decide what you want, then go find it.
I'd make a comparison to writing a shopping list before going to the grocery store but I'm pretty sure you live with your mother, so you wouldn't understand.
>>44131997
>No, decide what you want, then go find it.
What is "process of elimination" for 500 you brainwashed GURPSfag cunt?
>>44130623
And that's part of the reason why Fate managed to gain so much popularity in such a short amount of time compared to most tabletops, but I know for a fact that Fate's wiki could never compare to THIS much content:
>>44131997
>Everyone who doesn't like my waifu system is clearly intellectually deficient
This is another thing. GURPS players tend to be utterly insufferable.
I don't know what it is about this system, but it attracts only the most autistic and awful of players this side of D&D.Alright that was a lie, it's no small wonder why an autistic system attracts autistic players.
>>44131997
Jesus, I like GURPS, but you're just insufferable.
>>44132039
>>44132123
>>44132272
Nice counter-arguments.
Still want to argue if non-generic and generic are the same thing?
>>44115535
This, pretty much.
Both excel in their own way to tell a story and choosing one over another it's something related to taste rather than quality.
>>44132372
The only thing I'm willing to argue at this point is that you're a cunt, like pretty much every GURPSfag I ever have the displeasure of exchanging words with.
>>44130139
Dnd is however probably the absolutely worst system if you're new to our RPG. incredibly complicated AND doesn't involve any real world or simulation or logic.
>>44116931
I have some serious issues with the Cypher System, but love a lot of it in theory.
>>44117950
>>44121155
This.
Depends on the setting.
>>44115469
Shadowrun.
>>44134113
>implying "believable simulation" is a good thing
>>44125672
They would still need:
- specific support for popular fictional settings
- support from the creators of those fictional settings to get the recommendations out for them
- their own, memorable fictional settings
- premade modules good enough for introductory play and general enough to be adapted to settings other than the original assumed one
- to get beyond D&D's 40 years of cultural and marketshare dominance
- a website that doesn't look like it was made in 1998
>>44136884
It is becuase real world logic can go hand in hand with the game logic. If the players or DM can't find or remeber a rule in a given situation all they have to do is think about what 'makes sense'.
>>44130139
>D&D will never be dethroned, but the main reason why many players continue to introduce people to tabletops with 3.5/PF
THIS
> is because of the wikis the two offer thanks to their open license.
Not but because of all those players quickly jumping to a new edition to d&d when its release.
With those all old edition gamers jumping into the edition because "i hope they fixed the flaws, X, Y and Z" (with X, Y and Z being different stuff to different players)
The only way to d&d be detroned is if they release a wip before the game is released and it sucks alot, making old edition not bother about the new version.
But even that is not enought to detrone d&d because many old players will not try the wip to check its bad, if they tried stuff they could be as well playing other systems.
Also the wip would need to be so bad that would need to be bad to all variants of "what I want in d&d" opinion out there,
>>44137490
5e did address a lot of the problems with Dnd but
>>44115469
That's like asking which is the better weapon: a combat knife or a nuclear bomb? They're intended for applications as different as you could possibly get while still discussing two options we can conceptually recognize as "weapons".
Same thing with GURPS and FATE. Their goals, their design philosophies, the kind of game they're meant to facilitate and the way their rules support that, very nearly as far from each other as you can get while considering two examples of universal rpgs. The question of "better" depends entirely on which of a couple very different experiences you're trying to capture.
Which would be better for XCOM? Original, EU2012, or 2, doesn't matter.
>>44139301
GURPS. FATE simply doesn't care about tactical combat,
That said it would be interesting to see someone make up tactical rules just as a thought experiment.
>>44128615
As a GM this is accurate of my own experiences
>>44139585
Indeed. Fate is not interested in checking that your movement rate is three paces too short to get behind that cover, or what your positionon a grid needs to be to flank an enemy. Instead it asks how far you ar willing to go to get behind cover or to a flanking position; a CAA action to for "behind cover" or "flanking that x-ray bastard" situation aspects.
>>44139301
I would unfortunately have to recommend GURPS. X-Com is less about a character challenge and more about a tactical one. You would likely find FATE very wanting.
>>44140718
If you are gonna try to run XCOM with FATE it would have to be some sort of weird mid 2000s slice of life soap Operas where the characters professional roles only come up in relation to their current personal dilemmas.
Playable? Perhaps but not exactly the high stakes strategic decision-making you would associate with X Com
They do widely different things and are fundamentally incomparable.
>>44116862
I've never liked this argument. Not everyone wants to do a bunch of mechanical busywork to tailor the system at the start of every game. Sometimes something that is "good enough" really is good enough.
>>44115493
We all do mate.
>>44115469
D&D
GURPS if you want to play a game
FATE if you want to play something that might as well be freeform.
>>44144672
GURPS is hard-core simulation while FATE is hard-core (yes) narrative.
The rule set in GURPS is based around reflecting the 'nuts and bolts' of the world. If you stated out a Sports car in GURPS you would have stuff like its top speed in miles per and Weight to fuel ratio because it is trying to convey a detailed impression of the real world.
FATE's rules on the other hand rules are focused solely on what's gonna be relevant to the story doesn't concern itself with exact numbers. It doesn't matter what actuall speed the car can go at, merely if you could be considered have the 'Aspect Fast'. Because as drama dictates your only travel speed is 'Too Late!' and 'Just In Time'.
I can understand why people can't be bothered with GURPS level of technical realism but personally think FATE goes too far the other way for my enjoyment.
Where's the happy medium?
>>44145235
Pretty much my point, FATE feels like it's made for people who don't want to have to deal with rules, but don't know how to RP without them. I feel like i'd have way more fun just telling my players to come up with a character and write down a list of their abilities and skills within reason and then just rolling dice that aren't fates garbage dice to see what happens.
>>44115469
Strike!
>>44139301
Strike!
It's basically "lightweight generic system for squad based tactics: the game". It literally ripped the cover system from the XCOM games, even mentions it at the end of the book.
>>44145355
You can have a party of people who all know how to roleplay but fail to ever get on the same page with regards to tone, theme, narrative direction, however you want to define it. Fate lets you mediate how you're RPing to get everyone on the same page. Or lets you alternate who's page you're on for a particular moment.
RPing without rules is great when it works, but it rarely ever does.
>>44145494
>>44145518
Please stop shilling Strike!
>>44148095
>RPing without rules is great when it works, but it rarely ever does.
Hahahaha!
>>44145355
>garbage dice
But anon, the dice are the good part of the system.
>>44115469FATAL
>>44115539
It's true, though. It you want simulationism, GURPS is your only option.
The fact that it can also do looser styles doesn't change that.
>>44145355
>>44148397
Neverrrrr!>>44150002
>>44138455
Pshhaw, of course nuclear bomb is the better weapon. Bombs beat knives everytime, man
I like GURPS a lot. It has a lot of source material.
I read the Fate full ruleset because it was free, and it confused me a bit on some minute details, but I get the general jist.
There was an argument about how the amount of material in GURPS is overwhelming for a newbie. I don't think this is 100% wrong. I think part of enjoying GURPS as a GM is being able to enjoy the idea of looking through a bajillion rules to find the ones you like, but I think the problem is just a bit overstated as well.
I thought up my first GURPS campaign like "This is what I want, there is a huge list of books here, these books sound the most useful." I didn't read the books cover to cover though, I looked through the table of contents, glanced through the headers, and dived deep into the sections that sounded interesting.
Inevitably, I discovered some of the books I thought were going to be useful were not that useful. This is a problem if you are like me and like to *buy* books, so it was slightly miffing that I spent money on something that wasn't useful immediately.
Inevitably, someone shared some cool sounding rules and options from a source I glanced over, or a supplement I didn't expect would be important. My reaction was not that my campaign was totally ruined. At worst it was "aw nuts, there is no graceful way to wedge that in 10 sessions in," at best, it was easy to squeeze it in.
On Fate, I read the rules, and I liked some of the rules. I don't think the people I play tabletops with in real life would be able to handle the creativity and spontaneity it feels like it requires. They usually don't have the gumption to discern if a character is good at lockpicking or not while looking at the skill list (hint: people good at lockpicking have the lockpicking skill.)
Different strokes for different folks, but as for myself, I prefer knowing there is a "right" way to do things over winging it and choosing what "feels right", so I prefer GURPS.
>>44152410
Aye, this.
I'm a GM, and a bit of weirdo. I don't like things that don't make sense. Anime and superheroes annoy me, for example. Fantasy is one thing, as long as there's internal consistency, verisimilitude, and a reason for things happening.
Giant mecha, for example. If someone has the capability to build a powerful robot that can go into space and waste cities with the push of a button, why does this robot both need to look like a human, and be manually piloted by 20-somethings? Surely some military would realize the inefficiency of a military robot in humanoid form, and build a better model to get an edge over their opponents.
For jerks like me, there's good 'ol GURPS. People who prefer something cool over what makes sense will likely find more enjoyment from a different system.
>>44138005
>5e did address a lot of the problems with Dnd
nope it didnt, since its impossible, different people have different opinions about what d&d is (despise playing this same system, instead of looking for whateaver system fits his own idea of a good rpg).
A way to maybe fix d&d is
Make polls to gauge what people liked on d&d
Also ask on those polls what edition they loved.
Continue with the poll until you have enought likers of every single edition.
Then you split those guys into groups based on the info you got from the polls and make a d&d Work in progress to each one of those groups.
you create as many groups as you want and the wips is as different from others as possible.
then you release the wips. each wip is released ONLY to their specific group, with some rule that they can be sued if they release it to internet.
people test and complain about their wips and then change stuff based on people complains...
What is released are many different editions at the same time, each edition come with some big label saying "dont buy this if it was not your intended group, research about it first"
>>44156244
5e dropped of HP inflation and overtly complex combat of 4e while retaining a lot the coherent game design and relevant balance.
Is it the perfect RPG? No, not by a long shot. But it the combines of the aesthetics of old with the structural rigour of new. It really is the best we could of hoped for.
Hero System 6th Edition, because it really supports many types of magic and powers unlike GURPS
>>44154664
I see what you're getting at but you can run Fate in a realistic way if you want. With GURPS when you're creating a game you go through the books and pick the rules you want, with Fate you talk to your players and figure out the sort of stuff that is and isn't possible in game and have that reflected by aspects, skills, stunts.
Fate wants interesting things to constantly be happening, but that doesn't mean unrealistic things have to happen. I bet any GURPS (or any system) GM worth their salt makes damn sure interesting things are constantly happening in their campaign.
>>44156978
>Is it the perfect RPG?
perfect rpg varies from person to person,
in a normal situation people would play rpgs that suit their needs and views of what a rpg shouldbe, they would play phoenix command, or gurps or a freeform rpg or shadowrun
but not in the d&d case they are playing the same system (or their prefered edition of a system if you want to be more specific),
so no 5e is not perfect and cant be, its impossible,
my solution is the only one that would maybe fix the problem.
maybe because you would have dumb fucks that dont know witch group they belong getting the edition not aimed at them
you would also have people answering the poll multiple times to influence many different groups of d&d players
you would also have the problem of only being able to play with people that was part of the same group as you as they wouldnt like the other group d&d edition (as some example if someone ask you to play fatal you wont do it since you dont like it)
>>44115469
Neither, you fucking idiot. FATAL > all other systems
>>44158178
>>44156244
You write like a 16 year old retard.
> overtly complex combat of 4e
Well, aside from casters technically choosing from even more spells that are less precisely worded, sure.
>>44158323
I do dislike how spells and abilities lack the clear coincide formatting of 4th edition. I would like to see a return to clear visual grammar.
But all in all i think 5e is edition that comes closest to pleasing everyone. Some thing I've found with playing with a rather splintered play group it's the edition that least the marjory of players can agree to comprise on if not enjoy. Which is all that can be hoped for at the end of day.
You know what Fate reminds me of? The description the OSR crowd likes to give of their games, where the players are expected to use creative, descriptive solutions to problems to spice up the game and the GM is expected to rule with reasonable fairness to facilitate this as best they can, only it has a clearly codified mechanic for this effect (which may or may not be an improvement).
>>44156978
>5e dropped of HP inflation
Completely and utterly wrong.
>>44160377
monsters were meat bags in 4e, what are you on about?
>>44160495
He took it out of context to make it sound like it dropped HP bloat in general. Compared to say, second edition, HP is hugely bloated.
>>44118388
>What are they like compared to each other and/or DnD 2nd/3rd (only systems I'm familiar with don't hit me?
Good
>>44161646
I well they're both design with clear goals in minds other then kill things and take their stuff.
They're jack of all trades games.
mfw I made this thread two games ago and I had no idea its still up
Idont really think im considering fate anymore, but ill read~
>>44163014
I'm not a fan of it. But if you just want to play a particular character in mind such as ' OCD detective like Monk XD' and don't really care about the details beyond that, you can't go wrong.
If you do care about details, to the point you probably are monk. GURPS will make you a happy man.
reading things posted by GURPS fans reminds me of reading things posted by linux users. they probably do have a case about their system being superior, but with the all the trouble required to get it working for fairly marginal gains, you can't help the feeling they're just in it to sneer at people.
>>44164044
Considering the 'effort' required here simply means 'trying a system you're not necessarily familiar with', no not really.
They're both toolkit systems and that's the best kind
If you're looking for something very rules-heavy and focuses on the nitty-gritty details GURPS.
If you're looking for something on the lighter side of rules-medium that focuses more on the story and on ease of play, go with Fate.
While they're both universal systems, they both fill very different niches. Comparing them is like comparing Smash Bros. with MvC based solely on the fact that they're both crossover fighters.
>>44115469
>GURPS or FATE?
Neither.Savage Worldsis the one true universal system!
either /tg/ in general, or some very vocal posters, seem to have a weird boner for RPGs simulating a world - when no RPG ever totally simulates a world. At best it'll simulate what's important to that RPG and leave out stuff that doesn't matter to the author of that RPG. For example, you could have an RPG that spends fifty pages on gun porn and zero on psychology porn or even basic negotiation.
For my own ends I prefer Fate Core because it acknowledges that the only stats that matter in RPGs are what the players care about. You only ever dramatically arrive at locations Just in Time or Too Late because... duh, we're all sitting around a table collaboratively telling a story and playing a game with poker chips and dice, of course the whole point is dramatic tension.
>It feels like theatre sports with dice rolls.
That's what 90% of RPGs are. You make some shit up and roll dice when you're not sure.
>>44166074
That all said, GURPS is fine, the core of it isn't actually heavy at all (no heavier than Fate Core, really) and they have very well-researched supplements and fun settings.
>>44115469
GURPS for more "realistic" game, Fate for more rules-lite and movie-like game.
I own GURPS, Savage Worlds and FATE
Stop being poor shitters and choosing and just buy them all.
>>44166675
>buy
Ho ho ho.
>>44166675
>buying
At this day and age even poor shitters can own all these if they can access 4chan.
>>44166691
>>44166705
What can I say, I love me some hardcovers.
>>44166730
I agree to 100% that books just give me some crazy feel unlike PDFs, but poorfags have no excuse to not own PDFs of each game. Hardcover is the way to go for core books minimal. (I wish GURPS would have more hardcovers sold around here.)
>>44164044
The thing about GURPS is that although it is customizable, you can run it basically "as is" and still have an OK game. My main complaint of the game is that if you aren't using it to create something of fairly substantial detail, there's not really much to be gained over any number of other generic systems; it's still just as easily broken as any of them, and possesses a lot more clutter that only matters if you care about extensive detail.
I feel like Fate is often misrepresented in threads like this.
I mean, of course it's lighter than GURPS as a system, but it's not like Risus for example.
At the core of Fate there is a pretty traditional resolution system with a skill list you roll against to do things, and a set of conditional modifiers to said skills. Of course both of them are customizable, but it's not like they're "OK do whatever". They work more or less the same way skill lists do in every other game, maybe with a bit of extra jargon that can be off-putting to some, but still not the "almost freeform" thing some people say.
Along with that you have Aspects. Now that is where the narrative stuff lies the most. But again, they can be boiled down to "I have this trait that allows me to spend a point to get a bonus" and "I have this trait that can give me a point if I hinder miself". That doesn't sound so scary, right? Why people would characterise it as "not an RPG" escapes me.
Now, of course GURPS and Fate focus on different things, and there is no absolute answer as to what is the better game. I don't even think it matters. But people should really start putting a bit more of effort in reading the books they are talking about.
>>44164044
GURPS and GNULinux don't have much in common, really, but you're right in the sense that little shits everywhere use both to make themselves look cool at the detriment of the things they are parading. as "hardcore".
GURPS is an okay system that just happens to have everything under the sun and beyond started. If you pick up GURPS Lite it's actually really easy to work with. Idiots just happen to go towards picking up way too many rules for their campaign just to make life miserable for everyone else.
On the GNULinux side a lot of the perceived difficulty of working with it comes from the same kind of assholes they seek validation from other assholes. They will tell you to do this and that and to compile your software from scratch and do stupid techy bullshit because your life wilk be made "so much better". In reality it's easier to install and use Ubuntu than Windows even for the non tech savvy, but since your operating choices is all about personal preference it's not that big of a deal. The only reason I would say you should try out a distro is if you don't like Microsoft/Apples business practices.
>>44137038
>- their own, memorable fictional settings
They have half a dozen good settings.
>>44164044
You would sneer too if the complaints people make about the system you like have no relation to the actual game and are based on trolling and ignorance. Or if they were idiots who are offended by the concept of having to do addition.
Most games can be run just fine with the core book and the system makes it abundantly clear you should only use the rules you want/can handle.
>>44166074
>When no RPG ever totally simulates the world
Unless you're going for straight up dada surrealism narrative driven games has, (and all fiction in general) is trying to simulate a world to you the player and/audience. Its fundamental to the suspension of disbelief that the world has a clear set of rules and follows and follows a logical cause-and-effect.
A clear application of rules creates tension and dramatic pay off.
Take Dirty Harry. For all the gushing he gives over how Magnum revolver is the most powerful gun in the world, does it really matter and relevant to the story how many shots he can fire before he needs to reload? Absolutely it does. Because because we the audience are going to ask yourselves if he fired five or six.
>>44166862
>Fate is often misrepresented in threads like this
That's because shitters shit on games they've never played and know nothing about, all their information coming solely from other trolls and flamers.
People hear Fate is more rules light than most systems and equate it with freeform. My anus clenches every time.
>>44168060
My reasons are different, i just don't like the dice
Just look at them. Just as likely to help you is that you in the back and leave you for dead. Can't trust the buggers.
>>44148397
It beats GURPSfags shilling their dogshit autism gameI did a kickass XCOM oneshot with Savage Worlds not long ago
>>44168004
Not if he hadn't made the (narrative and dramatic) speech, we wouldn't have. He made a point of it. By FATE mechanics, I think it'd be something like the GM calling on the 'six shooter' tag.
>>44168004
And this can be done by triggering an aspect in Fate. Everybody knows the average revolver only packs six shots, it's blatantly obvious one of Callahan's aspects is Owns The Most Powerful Revolver In the World.
>>44168148
>>44168151
Owns The Most Powerful Revolver In The World is a much better name for the Aspect. You're totally right. I'm not very good at the Aspect thing. Shit's hard.
>>44168060
I wouldn't even call it more rules light than most systems; the rule book is 300 pages after all, and it would be pretty retarded of them to put out Fate Accelerated if Fate Core is already a rules light game.
Fate Core probably sits more or less smack in the middle of rules density. It's not a 10 page wonder like Microlite 74 or Lasers & Feelings or whatever, but it's not as rules heavy as WotC D&D or GURPS or modern Ars Magica and those sorts of games.
As for people who have never played a game calling it bad, well, edition wars are a thing. I guess we should be used to it...
I GM both GURPS and Fate.
To put it shortly, they are not good or bad, and it doesn't matter which campaigns any one of them suits the best.
The systems are not for different campaigns, they are for different groups. As soon as I've understood that simple idea, my life as a GM became easier. And I GMed a social GURPS politics/espionage campaign just as fun as a Fate dungeon crawl.
I also use Burning Wheel, Savage Worlds, Pathfinder, AD&D2 and D&D4e. And I don't choose them based on the campaign (barring some extreme examples), but on the people that asked me to GM. As a player I do prefer GURPS.
>>44168114
> Can't trust the buggers.
> They are heavily bell curved to come up +0, making them very predictable.
