How's the RPG for Kill 6 Billion Demons coming along?
Anyone here playing the beta?
Is it better than Exalted?
Don't know when 1.2 is coming out. Soon, I hope.
>>44109487
Abbadon said on his twitter that there'll be an update for the RPG this weekend.
I've got the beta, but >mfw no group
Can someone post 1.1? What did it improve?
>>44109366
>Brazzers.jpg
>>44109507
Oh, awesome. Hope there's more lore stuff.
this shit has a rpg now... i know what i will be doing over the weekend
>>44109578
>i know what i will be doing over the weekend
Fapping to demon porn?
>>44109611
yes
>>44109533
I would quite like to run a game for it.
>>44109366
My greatest struggle will be between choosing Gun Witch and Beggar Knight
>>44109771
What's the best fighting class now?
>>44109771
>Gun Witches do not fly on cannon sponges
garbage
>>44109366
Taking a million years for the next upgrade, where we can check whether our efforts even matter at all.
>>44109366
Strip-Mahjong with your grandma is better than exalted
I mean, I love this webcomic and all, but an rpg for it? Ehhh
>>44113299
It's basically Hinduist Kung Fu Planescape. I don't see why it shouldn't be awesome.
>>44113351
Don't get me wrong, I love the setting, and it has definitely influenced some of the games / sessions I've DMd recently, but to me a lot of the charm comes from just the lore and the characters....both of which are pretty interchangeable for any other system.
>>44113496
Of course you could hack something for it, but I always like having specialised systems for my games. Also there are some things which would just look silly/be overpowered if crammed into the wrong system.
Since nobody's posting the 1.1, here it is.
It's a Powered By the Apocalypse Game, with Dungeon World as it's base reference.
![[ECHS INTERNALLY]_1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0ZB50Wd.jpg "[ECHS INTERNALLY]_1.jpg")
>>44113766
>Apocalypse World
>Instead of a custom system
I'll read it but it already sounds wanktacular.
>>44109982
Best damage dealer is the Fury. I don't think there's an all-around best, though.
>>44113792
It's a custom system based on the Apocalypse engine. What, you think they should make up some brand new special snowflake core mechanic? That would not be the way to go about making a good game.
>>44113792
>not liking Apocalypse World
Did anyone ever do anything with that burger joint scenario or the noir adaptation we talked about a while back?
>>44113792
It fixes nearly all that fucktards complain about tho.
>>44113857
I also hate snowflake games that have mechanics fit their theme, anon.
It's only good when the mechanics and fluff are completely disassociated in every way.
>>44114143
Then why not just play GURPS?
>>44114143
Wrongbadfun, right?
>>44113970
Which were what precisely...? I usually drop out when the mud slinging starts about AW/DW.
>>44114486
There's no mechanical advantage for using a shield over two weapons (because the game doesn't have a rule for those), and the DM can give bonuses/penalties for the rolls.
>>44114635
Those sound like dungeon world problems.
>>44115113
Well I haven't heard much whining about Apocalypse World. Dungeon world on the other hand had lots of bitching, but as far as I can tell those were the two legitimate complaints.
>>44114143
Because:
1. There are enough generic/hack-able systems out there that you can usually find something that works OK with your theme, and then modify the parts that don't. Especially if it's a known system that's been hacked before (like AW) then you learn from other hacks, good and bad. You can see the traps, and it's easier to balance than a totally new system.
2. It's often nice to use something that people already know. It makes it easier to pick up and play, as many players will already be familiar with the basic mechanics. This relates to 2 as well, because people already know the system, as play-testers and others offering input can do so from a position of more knowledge than if they were forced to learn a whole new system. It's less hassle so you'll have a larger base.
3. Commonly hacked systems are ones that have been proven and stood up to scrutiny. Though there are haters for every system, the commonly used generic/hack-able systems are commonly used for a reason. They've proven that they generally work, so long as they fit and the hack is well made. Many snowflake mechanics just suck. There are a ton of snowflake systems/mechanics that can sound good but never really work out. Using a proven system helps get around that.
Basically, a hack is, in many cases, a wonderful way to produce a good game for a setting. So long as the system you choose to hack works well with the theme of the setting, and since many open or hack-able systems work with a variety of themes, it's often not that hard, and fits with just a few tweaks.
In this case, I think that *World goes quite well with the setting and theme. Though I would have personally preferred to see FATE, which would have worked just as well, that's simply a personal preference for the system. It works and feels good.
A snowflake mechanic would have been a lot harder to do, taken a lot longer, and would've had a decent chance of sucking (not to criticize Abbadon).
System hacking is often good.
>>44115200
Apocalypse World is a decent system that works well for it's own setting. The trouble is much like the D20 system before it people insist on trying to convert it to everything.
Dungeon world is prime example of taking round peg of the apocalypse engine and shoving it into the Square hole dnd.
>>44117741
>Basically, a hack is, in many cases, a wonderful way to produce a good game for a setting. So long as the system you choose to hack works well with the theme of the setting, and since many open or hack-able systems work with a variety of themes, it's often not that hard, and fits with just a few tweaks.
So why are you using apocalypse world?
>>44114486
We need to re-mix this list for the 12 days of Christmas.
>>44119462
There are two problems with your statement. First of all, d20 only works for its own "setting" because people built up stuff around it. It was originally aiming for sword and sorcery, and it doesn't do that very well at all.
Second, Dungeon World is pretty mediocre, but that's because it's a bad hack. Not all hacks are bad; see for example Monsterheart. Likewise, there exists a good hack for d20: Mutants and Masterminds. The thing is, when making a hack you have to understand the reasons for things and be willing to change as needed, as well as drawing from other sources. And you have to do it well. Most d20 adaptations didn't do that. That's why most of them are long gone now. Broken World seems to be doing that.
>>44120507
>Dungeon World is pretty mediocre, but that's because it's a bad hack
I'd disagree, I think it does exactly what it intends to do, and does it really well. It's not something really exciting, and certainly isn't the PvP HBO drama thing that Apocalypse World fans are looking for, but that doesn't make it bad.
>>44114635
And those problems are already covered. There is a mechanical advantage to using two weapons, in that you get the tags of both weapons. In addition, you can get increased damage via the Ranger's two-weapon moves, available to many classes via multiclass advanced moves.
Giving bonuses/penalties to a roll for situational bonuses is rather against Apocalypse World's design (there's little room for it in the 2d6 spread, and you're supposed to rearrange consequences for situational advantage, not the roll), but DW has optional rules for situational modifiers in the core book already.
>>44109982
The figure in the penultimate panel looks awfully familiar.
>>44120507
Monsterhearts is just effing creepy. It's about players thinking up fucking each other in variously painful ways to get magic for Chrissakes.
It's twilight using the apocalypse world. It started as a joke and it should've started and ended with that sentence.
>>44121020
It's more like Buffy using the apocalypse engine. And whether the premise is to your taste, the mechanics work well.
>>44121075
Yeah, Monsterhearts is awesome. /tg/ just erroneously thinks it works like pic related.
>>44121693
Are you seriously is not pic related? Because that shit creepy as fuck.
>>44121903
It doesn't even feature sex, really, just relationships. People just tend to think of it as sex related because of a certain quest that ran here using the setting/system which had a lot of magical realm and sex in it.
>>44121903
That's a joke somebody told based on what dumb fa/tg/uys think Monsterhearts is like.
The game isn't anything like that. (well, maybe if you're playing with two That Guys and a That DM who disregards the rules and lets them run wild. But that's not a Monsterhearts problem, they'll do that in D&D or FATE or anything)
>>44121986
And the Sex Moves, maybe
>>44122055
Yeah but it's not like sex moves are "sex moves" in the sense of here's this cool trick I do with my tongue or here's this fetish thing, they're just little benefits you get for fucking.
>>44122102
>benefits
>when she has sex with you, The Chosen will "reveal your darkest self"
>a la Buffy sleeping with Angel
Dude, some of those moves aren't even remotely helpful, they're scary.
>>44123806
Well yeah, but you know what I mean. It's an on-sex effect with a poorly chosen name.
>>44123827
Eh, it's really just standard Apocalypse Engine nomenclature. All rules are packaged up into modules called moves.
>>44123875
This I know. Still, it's dumb.
>>44119873
>On the first day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>A copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44124556
>Om the second day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44125544
>On the third day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44125610
>On the fourth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44117741
That is a long post to describe pure laziness as the reason.
Apocalypse is very very simple, so it didn't take him mpre than a couple hours to adapt it.
>>44125657
>On the fifth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44127007
>On the sixth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44127036
>On the seventh day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Seven demiurges
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
One of the main complaints from those that actually tested the system was that Furies end up being far, far more durable than Laws, who are meant to be the big tanks of the group.
>>44127099
Really? I didn't actually get that sense from the classes. I mean Furies were obviously the most durable, they had the ability to ignore damage. Did Laws even have a heal?
>>44127099
>>44128572
Eh, just limit it once per fight or make it a clumsy roll.
Also Law can ignore damage too, but loses armor in the process.
>>44112790
3E is actually good though!
>>44112790
My grandma is a pretty amazing tactical game player, though.
>>44109366
Actually responding to your question.
My group have been play testing the beta for a few sessions, and we are really enjoying the whole thing.
The game isn't done yet, and some things need more balancing; but the core game is fun.
The most important thing is to have a good group for it. If your players wanted to power game it's a waste of time. All of my guys are reading the comics, and RPing their characters really well; making the game fun. If the players won't read the series then you may as well stop right there.
>>44109578
Best queen. Bianca is patrician taste, anon, good job
New page of the comic just went up, and the artist's accompanying background screed has some fairly important bits in it from an RPG point of view.
>>44123906
>>44123875
You're goddamnit right it's dumb. For a allegedly simple easy to use System. It sure does like needlessly esoteric terminology.
>>44134301
Things getting too problematic for you anon?
>>44136597
It's needless obtuse. It greatly undermines its design philosophy of simple accessibility.
>>44128807
No it's not. It's passable, but not good.
>>44139824
i'm not sure you even read the rules anymore
>>44125708
Apocalypse World is mechanically fairly simple in raw design but making playbooks is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of careful thought and finesse because each one is effectively a self-contained game with its own goals and mechanics that needs to interact with other playbooks without either overshadowing them to an absurd degree, being OP, being boring, being stupid, or winding up doing nothing, which is a lot harder than it sounds. Just look at all the terrible fan splats out there for AW and MH and look at how absolutely godawful they are.
>>44127045
>On the eighth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Eight angels a-punching
>Seven demiurges
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44142142
>On the ninth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Nine keys of kings
>Eight angels a-punching
>Seven demiurges
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44139824
>wanting to confuse people by using terminology from other games that work in different ways
People already get Read a SItch confused because they want to treat it like a Spot Check. Renaming it Spot Check to avoid being "esoteric" would be worse than unhelpful, it would be actively encouraging the confusion.
New system design + new concepts = new naming convention. Anything else is bad for DMs and players both.
>>44142268
Okay but can see how referring *everything* as 'Moves' can be an issue though.
'Sex Moves' sends the completely wrong contention to what they're intended to convey.
>>44142564
Yeah, while I think "moves" is a good choice overall, and "sex moves" is the obvious first-thought choice for dramatic moves that come from characters hooking up, I gotta say it still feels like Vince Baker just had to make it a play on words. I think he should have looked for another name for that.
>>44142629
Hell I'm not gonna lie "hook-up moves" while sounding kind of dumb, at least gives less of an immediate impression of "this is how great your character is at bangin'"
>>44141466
Honestly, I do think it's overall good. There's a couple of subsystems that don't work well, but the core system is solid now and works very nicely.
>>44143074
To put the problem with Exalted 3e in extremely simple terms:
Imagine trying to teach someone this.
>>44143173
You mean, them the system?
I have, pretty easily. My group never played any rpgs before 3E.
>>44143173
It's not particularly worse than any other crunch heavy system. Not everyone WANTS crunch heavy system, but you can't be all things to all people now can you?
>>44143404
>you can't be all things to all people now can you?
Obviously you are of insufficient will, not suited to become Royalty
>>44143404
>but you can't be all things to all people
But, I am a Lunar.
>>44143404
Most crunch heavy systems are just crunch heavy with the combat. Exalted also has heavy crunch for the crafting. And the talking. And the war campaigns. And most things that aren't running a country because for some reason they didn't want to come up with any rules for the thing every Exalt starts doing after long enough.
>>44143893
>And most things that aren't running a country because for some reason they didn't want to come up with any rules for the thing every Exalt starts doing after long enough.
But there are those rules.
They just aren't nearly as crunch heavy as everything else you were complaining about for being crunch heavy.
>>44143893
What games are you even comparing it to?
>Most crunch heavy systems are just crunch heavy with the combat.
Really not the case, except for maybe D&D.
And that's a game with completely different priorities than Exalted.
>>44143893
That's because a lot of those systems only really CARE about combat. If talking is important to your game then yes you should have rules for talking similar to your rules for combat.
I mean, yes *I* think that they should have actual rules for country-running instead of just vaguely gesturing in the direction of some ideas on how to do it, but I don't really think you have room to critique since if they DID have rules for it surely you'd just be adding it to your list of things that shouldn't be given as much consideration of glorious glorious combat.
>>44144074
I don't think the combat rules should be nearly as complicated as they are, and the same goes for all the other rules.
>>44144107
Combat isn't even that complicated.
"The highest number goes first and hits the hardest, and you can inflict debuffs at the cost of lowering your number."
I'm not sure what you consider complicated about Ex3, Crafting excepted.
>>44144152
The core mechanic of combat, maybe not that complicated. Roll dice and deal damage, okay. Except combat isn't just the core mechanic. It's managing a dozen different charms, constantly shifting order of action, and having to remember every stupid fiddly bonus and penalty from every single thing. Don't forget, you have to aim for an action before you can shoot somebody at medium range! Don't forget, that mook has a -2 to everything because he's wounded! Don't forget, you have this charm that boosts your Evasion! Don't forget!
>>44144211
Yeah sorry, obviously not for you, but it's within acceptable bounds of crunchyness and none of that makes it "bad" any more than a stereotypical grognard is right about their apocalypse world bitching
The problem with Ex3 is that it assumes you've played the other editions (or at least 2e).
>>44144211
But, those aren't terribly complicated either. The shifting order of action is fine, because a player is *invested* in making sure they have the correct initiative. So no, they won't forget that, and will remind the GM if he ever does.
>Don't forget, you have to aim for an action before you can shoot somebody at medium range
That's not really hard.
>Don't forget, that mook has a -2 to everything because he's wounded
Nor is that.
>Don't forget, you have this charm that boosts your Evasion!
You can't forget that, because if you do, you'll most likely die.
It's a CCG formatted kind of game with a bunch of discrete and specific powers. I can understand that crunch heavy games might be too much effort if you don't want it, but it's not that different from say, Mutants and Masterminds in having a ton of unique abilities, or games like Mage with loads and loads o' spells.
>>44144272
Do you mean from like a crunch or a fluff perspective? because from a fluff perspective they aren't relying on you remembering the stuff they cut, they mostly cut fluff because they didn't feel it was worth keeping. And for crunch... yeah i'd have to see what your exact argument is, but personally i only tried to play 2e one time before combat drove me away, but i've played 3e and it all made sense and combat was even FUN, which i honestly can't say for any other RPG i've played.
>>44144272
I think it *is* a problem is that there's no storytelling section laying out precisely what the themes of the game are, in contrast to previous editions or other OPP/WoD games. Not a huge problem, but having one would still be helpful.
>>44144336
Anything that is missing from the 3e book (like the resolution order for combat) is assumed to be like 2e.
>>44144313
Everyone I know who has played Ex3 says that in their early sessions with newbies, combat ground to a complete halt every single turn when their action came around. This also applies to my first couple sessions. I don't know where you're coming from if you don't believe it's a fiddly thing with tons of shit to remember because it is.
>>44144375
I've heard good arguments that a specific step system like 2E's isn't all that necessary. Most groups just naturally fall into a rhythm of attacker first declares, then defender, and if they /do/ prefer a bidding war instead the end result is still the defender invoking a defense they believe is proportionate to the attack.
>>44144381
Except I've run it for newbies as well, and while it was initially awkward what with how abstracted initiative was, and the divide between withering and decisive attacks, it ended up going really well.
>>44144360
The book's 6-700 pages. The leak was 900. And there's still no goddamn guidelines for designing charms.
>>44144381
Maybe I could see it if like... you had a whole group of dawns who took all combat charms, but in general i don't think you really start out with THAT many options to even be concerned about.
>>44144435
To elaborate, they were learning a new system and didn't read the core book beyond the bare minimum, so a slow first combat was expected. I took the time explaining how things worked as they acted, and things then progressed much faster.
>>44144442
But they needed that space for the poser art.
>>44144442
But if they gave you a guideline for designing charms, you'd have no reason to buy limineals!
>>44144442
That's going to be in Exigents.
>>44144463
I always start new players as mortals, just so they don't get overwhelmed early on.
>>44144486
>>44144478
That's also why there's not really any guidelines for making enemies.
>>44144463
The same problem applies no matter how you build your character because most of the game is complicated subsystems. Built a social character? Prepare to run into the brick wall that is the social system. Built a crafter? Hahaha you stupid piece of shit. Etc.
>>44144487
>>44144486
>Exigents
>Liminals
Oh good, I might see them on my deathbed. And the design sections will have been cut for more giant lists of Charms.
>>44144514
>Prepare to run into the brick wall that is the social system.
It's not a brick wall.
>>44144510
There is, in the antagonists section.
Did you read the book at all?
>>44144540
Why are you eager for more splats for a game line you seem to dislike?
>>44144514
Holy shit the social system is just "figure out what people care about and try to influence them based on that/influence what they care about" but without the whole thing having to be DM fiat-ed.
More importantly, if your character is remotely rounded you don't start with too many options in any given category, and your character SHOULD start somewhat rounded or else the moment you're outside your own specialty you'll go splat/get manipulated into a puppet/get so lost you'll never be able to find your way back to civilization again
>>44142225
>On the tenth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Ten cubits of Black Glass
>Nine keys of kings
>Eight angels a-punching
>Seven demiurges
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44144540
Exigents is supposed to be coming relatively quickly for the very reasons it's brought up here. I think it's the actual splat after dragonbloods? (So there will probably be a non-splat book of some form between dragonbloods and exigents, like arms of the chosen i'm 90% sure is out before dragonbloods)
>>44144546
>There is, in the antagonists section.
Yes, for unimportant schlubs and Exalted (and not very much for the Exalted). Not for spirits, Wyld critters, etc.
>>44144665
It tells you how much attack, defense, and soak the tiers of opponents should have. That applies to any being, whether they're spirits, fae, etc.
>Abbadon will never be put in charge of Infernals
truly we live in the worst of all possible worlds
>>44144624
10 and 8 have too many syllables
>>44144732
Both him and Jenna Moran write up quality hells.
>>44144624
>>On the eleventh day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Eleven ebons scheming
>Ten cubits of Black Glass
>Nine keys of kings
>Eight angels a-punching
>Seven demiurges
>Six sweet peaches
>Five water houses
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44144736
>>44144751
A rewrite then. Gonna try and stick with the X (a-)Y-ing format after the fifth day.
Also, I thought the Keys'd be better at 5
>On the eleventh day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Eleven ebons scheming
>Ten Thorns a-prickling
>Nine Angels punching
>Eight Guilds a-robbing
>Seven Kings a-ruling
>Six beggars begging
>Five Keys of Kings
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
>>44109366
>>44109487
>>44109507
It should be up around today for $10+ Patreons, so if there's a Patreanon among us, we'd appreciate you sharing.
>>44146956
>On the twelfth day of Diwali, YISUN gave to me
>Twelve devils singing
>Eleven ebons scheming
>Ten Thorns a-prickling
>Nine Angels punching
>Eight Guilds a-robbing
>Seven Kings a-ruling
>Six beggars begging
>Five Keys of Kings
>Four brand-new names
>Three blue demons
>Two luscious plums
>And a copy of the Song of Maybe
Of course it's better then Exalted, simply by virtue of having any mechanics other then Exalted's.
>K6BD thread
>Mostly people arguing about the exact degree that Exalted 3e is terrible too.
>>44148445
Well, OP did ask whether or not they should use Exalted instead.
>>44147061
But, as said before, 3E is bretty gud.
It's just a very different game from AW.
>>44150251
If you're playing in the Exalted setting, Exalted is decent. If you want to capture the weirdness of K6BD, this is the best option.
>>44150503
Yeah, I'm not going to argue against that.
Just, people who shit on the system because of 2E really ought to try 3E.
>>44150548
But 3e isn't out yet, is it?
>>44150611
It's available right there in the OP of every Exalted General.
>>44109366
I don't even know what this is and I can promise you that it is better than Exalted.
>>44150646
3E is good, though...
>>44150667
I have not played 3e. I'll take your word for it.
>>44150683
t-thank you
>>44150548
How could you argue against it?
The 3E system is great, it lets you be a Solar, Lunar, or Abyssal, and it lets you fight against dragonblooded.
My favorite feature of the system is all of the lore behind Exigent exalted despite them being new.
What other system lets you do that?
>>44150867
Only Solars are playable in the core, unless you use stuff like the Alchemical and Infernal homebrews. You can totes fight against Dragonblooded, and pretty much anything else, though.
>>44109771
What class were you looking at for the gun witch? I was looking at refined for it, using warp shadow on rocks for shot to reduce the wealth tax that is a gun.
>>44152293
Or, with GM approval, maybe changing shot into rare shot? That'd be a neat way to fluff the whole magic bullets idea.
