Someone Forgot to Make a New Thread Edition
Useful links now here: http://pastebin.com/JtFH682q (embed)Link for the Trove: https://mega.co.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg
Last thread: >>who knows
>>44100924
Last thread was >>44020805
Died because I forgot to bump it one morning. :(
Posting our 'zine stuff.
PDF 2
>>44101008
It happens anon. I wish we had the crisper version of the OSR blue logo, but I lost it in a HD failure.
Speaking of, what do you all think the best way of backing up the trove is? I was talking about making it into a torrent once upon a time, but i never got it off the ground.
>>44101008
>Posting our 'zine stuff
Why contribute to a zine that won't be published?
>>44101020
Oops, ya ninja'ed me.
>>44101076
This one?
>>44101100
Hey, TroveGuy had some stuff come up, I'm sure when he's back the zine will come.
>IMPORTANT LINKS
> ---------------
>Treasure Trove 2.0
https://mega.co.nz/#F!7JNAmLYZ!7ppr91IllF6cMIFW5xXdwg - The trove is taking donations. If you have anything that we don't, upload it somewhere and we'll get it added.
> Tons of TSR Scenarios
http://gobbi.free.fr/scenarii/ScenariiTSR.php
> Tons of Modules and content by Dragonsfoot
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/fe/
> Master list of AD&D monsters
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_contents.php
> List of Retroclones
http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html
> ADDITIONAL LINKS
> ----------------
> Labyrinth Lord
Core Rules (B\X Clone) -- http://www.goblinoidgames.com/docs/GBD1001_no_art.zip
Advanced Edition Companion (1E Clone) http://www.goblinoidgames.com/docs/GBD1002_no_art.zip
> Castles & Crusades:
Quick Start -- http://www.trolllord.com/downloads/pdfs/cnc_qs.pdf
Player's Handbook -- http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1361806385
Monsters & Treasure -- http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1361808378
Castle Keeper's Guide (optional) -- http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1361806529
> Lamentations of the Flame Princess:
Free PHB -- http://www.rpgnow.com/product/115059/LotFP-Rules-%26-Magic-Free-Version?filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=2795
Free 2011 Referee guide -- http://www.rpgnow.com/product/148012/LotFP-Referee-Book-old-Grindhouse-Edition
> Swords and Wizardry:
Sword and Wizardry White Box -- http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/WhiteBox3p.pdf
Sword and Wizardry Complete -- http://irontavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Swords-Wizardry-Complete-revised.pdf
> Basic Fantasy:
Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game Rules and Adventure Modules -- http://www.basicfantasy.org/downloads.html
> Delving Deeper
pdfs -- http://forum.immersiveink.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=113
single page html -- http://ddo.immersiveink.com/dd.html
Topic of Discussion -
>>44101100
double dubs, nice
but even if one spastic prints one copy its published, its a zine not some fine literature
>>44101135
Yup thats the one, thank you anon.
I had a copy of the trove hosted on RS a while ago, but idk what the easiest way to get if off the Mega share is.
I have no problem seeding it indefinitely once i get it all downloaded. But every time I try to download it, i get 32gb instead of the full load.
>>44101135
Whoa, I guess if you accidentally a *.txt file while trying to click an image, it seamlessly and silently inserts it at the bottom of your post. Huh, I didn't know that.
That's an old copypasta there.
dont mind me, just testing something
Rolled 54329 (1d100000)
>>44101194
Testing again
Rolled 16 (1d20)
>>44101215
Welcome, friend.
>>44101930
Ranger seems kind of out-of-place. The other 4 seem to be thematically consistent, but ranger seems to be an outlier.
>Strength helps melee to-hit and damage
>Dex helps ranged to-hit and damage
I don't see how physical strength makes you any more precise with the strokes of a sword, nor how dexterity would make an arrow wound a person more.
>>44102115
>Rangers can track and survive in the wild
That's pretty nonspecific.
>Wizards can cast spells
>Priests can heal people and cast spells
So priests are flat-out better?
>Fighters get a bonus +2 to hit
That's it?
>Rogues get 1d6 backstab damage
That's all?
>no spell list
>no monster stats
>no leveling
>not OSR at all
2/10, would rather play basic
I'm posting my shitty character classes again, since people ITT seem to be posting their shitty homebrews.
Hey /osr/, I want to give my players a base for an easy way to spend money and get dat sweet XP, but I'm not really sure if they should get a stable base like that at level 1.
Would it be better to wait until they get up in levels or could it work at low level as well? I was thinking the place would start abandoned like a ruin but slowly new people and materials flow in as they adventure; eventually making it into a prosperous keep.
>>44103920
You could have the first few adventure being the players cleaning out their own keep of monsters and the like.
>Keep On The Borderlands
>>44102369
No tables for anything? Randomly generated shit can be a lot of fun and mesh together ideas that work well you wouldn't have otherwise tried.
Your 3d6 curve is all fucked up, 2-5 gives a minus 2, but only 17 and 18 give +2. You're already just rolling 3d6, you don't have to gimp your players even more.
No leveling in class features sort of betrays that you don't expect the characters to level, you expect them to die.
Spear does more damage than sword, isn't 2 handed. Explain. Also you left out mooks and hirelings.
Clockwise from highest is pointless. Might as well just pick someone who's name starts with the letter closest your name starts with and every combat after that move one around the table. Makes about as much sense.
Everyone gets a level/hd bonus to hit, which makes the fighter's base +2 pretty meh.
Seems over all dumb for the sake of being dumb, doesn't do much to add or stream line. Not sure why you'd bother with this over anything else.
>>44102633
>Ranger seems kind of out-of-place. The other 4 seem to be thematically consistent, but ranger seems to be an outlier.
It is rather... specific compared to the others, but it makes sense to have a more lightly armed and armored warrior-type who is possibly more focused on skills (like wilderness survival) and/or missile weapons. You could go for a more generic concept, like Skirmisher or Scout, or maybe even have it be the Archer class.
>>44101882
> 5 or less gives -2
> 17 or better gives +2
Asymmetrical.
It's either "4 or less" (if 17+), or "16 or better" (if 5-).
>>44101930
> no Fighteress or Wizardess
Shame on you.
>>44104914
>no Fighteress or Wizardess
You speak of bigotry but leave out the Rangerette and Roguess? Besides, everybody knows it's a Fightress, because a female waiter is a waitress, not a waiteress. Mind you, I quite like the sound of Fightrix, but we'd probably have to change the base to Fightor to make that work.
>>44105033
> leave out the Rangerette and Roguess?
Shame on me.
>>44104914
>>44105033
>>44105057
Priest/Priestess
Wizard/Witch
Ranger/Huntress
Fighter/She-Devil
Thief/Whore
>>44105951
>She-Devil
That's a really good name for a female fighter, since the male class name is Bastard.
Sup /osr/, I need some DM inspiration.
Give me some good adventures to read.
>>44106167
I could write you something if you want, don't have any published material though.
>>44106167
Got you covered, senpai.
http://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?page_id=844
>>44106167
Ravenloft is always the answer.
>>44106181
Holy shit this is great
>>44106181
This is a great recommendation, I can only second it. Ten Foot Pole is probably the solidest review blogger in the OSR, no weird taste idiosyncrasies that put him a mile off the reader baseline and none or not much of the bullshit internal politicking that always happens in every subculture.
>>44103095
Trophy seems cool.
>>44106503
I especially like the way he always makes clear by what standards he's judging something and why he doesn't like it, so you can decide whether you are bothered by it as much as he does.
>>44100924
Bump
Is there a space opera type game that uses a system similar to AD&D? I want to introduce something like that to my players but the only system they've ever used is 1st edition AD&D
>>44109813
BD&D - Stars Without Number
IIRC there also are White Dwarf and Machinations of Space Princess, but I'm not certain what D&D they are retroclones of.
I guess, you'll have to homerule a bit if you want AD&D proper.
>>44109866
>Stars Without Number
would i be able to take these ad&d characters and teleport them to a space station? obviously it wouldn't be that simple but could I do it with minimum conversions and such?
>>44109923
Well, you an convert AD&D characters to Basic with only a little trouble, but AD&D to Basic to SWN might prove trickier.
(I bet Dave Arneson could do it just fine, though.)
>>44109923
You mean, "export" pre-existing AD&D characters to the SWN?
Well, no. Not easily. At the very least you'll need skills and some other thing. Attack/AC conversion, obviously. Saving throws too, IIRC. Take a look at the system.
If you need setting (it's 3E system), you might want to take a look at Dragonstar. It works for switching from DnD fantasy to Space Opera (KGB drow, Red Dragon Emperor).
Does anyone have any advice on making maps interesting-looking?
>>44110794
Don't make it too symmetrical. Unless that's the point, before that, at least consider the purposes of the rooms and their layout, even if it's a batshit insane floorplan created by an elder god.
That map looks pretty interesting, there's some variety to the rooms and locations, and it draws your eye around the page.
>>44110794
Don't forget to also make maps that make sense in the process of making them interesting.
In my experience dungeon maps are kind of inherently intriguing even if they're black and white lines on a grid. It's the description and notes that make it come to life anyway.
>>44109813
...It's a dumb idea, but I remember something about some early issue of The Dragon having guidelines for converting characters from D&D to Metamorphosis Alpha.
A.k.a. the game that Expedition to the Barrier Peaks was a marketing stunt for. The precursor to Gamma World.
It's not exactly Space Opera (you're in a failed radiation-filled colony ship), or even that similar to AD&D for that matter, but I figured that it's worth a mention at least.
>>44109866
If MotSP is based on the Lamentations etc. system, I'd hazard a guess on it being loosely based on B/X?
>>44109866
I think you mean "White Star", which is based off Swords & Wizardry. Stars Without Number is better planned out and has fuller spaceship rules, etc.
MoSP is based off Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
>>44117340
> White Star
Yes. Of course.
>>44113000
>>44114376
Thanks, you two, I'll keep it in mind.
Never tried it before so it's still a shakey learning experience.
Can someone quickly explsin to me how the LotFP Encumbrance rules work?
I see a lot of people praising it.
Anyone got any afvice on how to introduce magical weapons and items?
How to make players understand they are special and how to let them know what they do?
>>44119115
>How to make players understand they are special
Make them very rare.
>how to let them know what they do?
You don't. Let them figure it out for themselves.
>>44119098
The online PDF is free, look it up there for specifics, but basically it has a list of things that you are wearing/carrying and however many of those bubbles you circle count as your points towards becoming encumbered. I can't explain it further really, just look it up.
>>44119115
You could do a few methods.
One is to hint at what it does in the dungeon itself without actually directly telling, only a very experienced sage or magic user could actually identify it but you wouldn't need that all the way.
For example if there is a sword that deals ice damage make it really cold to the touch or maybe even snowing just in the room it is in to represent its cold powers.
Most magic items also glow or have some strange runic text on them that make them stand out from standard weapons.
>painting huge beautiful campaign map
>realize you can't use it because it'll be a hexcrawl
I am dumb
>>44121236
Why wouldn't you be able to use it? Will the hexes physically prevent you from showing the players a world map?
>>44121236
Why can't you use it? Take that map, overlay hexes on top, and you're done.
>>44121236
Just photocopy a hex sheet onto a sheet of clear plastic so you can overlay it when needed.
>>44119098
>>44122474
Unrelated, but this is also a good system, which relies simply on using bigger, easier to manage weight measurement units.
>>44121715
>>44121737
>>44122443
Weren't Hexcrawls kinds intended for the players to build their own map?
What about getting lost? How would that be handled while using a map?
>>44115924
The 1st edition AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide has rules for converting to and from 1st edition Gamma World (though the editions are similar enough in both cases, that you could use 2nd edition of either system as well).
>>44106167
Read GM Gems in the trove. I always keep my copy on my gming shelf.
>>44122474
Interestingly enough, I'm using a similar system but with the item limit being set according to the Character's Strength Score and Armor not going against the limit as it automstically slows the wearer down already. It's surprisingly prsctical as it's all about noting down items on numbered spots.
Does anyone have good variant rules for ammunition?
I'd like for the possibility of ammo running out without the player having to track every single one.
>>44123088
What I do is, the players have an abstract ammo amount and anytime they roll a 2, they lose a point of ammo
>>44123088
>>44123142
You could use this or a dice size method.
Like d12 means you have a shit load of ammo, but whenever you roll a 1 or 2 maybe you go down a die size. Then you have a d10, and lose another size if you roll a 1 or 2. When you get down to a d4 that's your last arrow or so.
>>44122648
Oh, by "can't use it" you mean "can't show it to the players"? Yeah, I guess not, then.
You can give your players maps, but they shouldn't be necessarily accurate or to scale. And they definitely shouldn't list stuff beside major cities and well-known landmarks.
>>44123088
For me, the problem isn't so much keeping track (it's only in the 1-30 range if we're talking realistic quiver capacity) as it is all the damn erasing when you express it as a number. That's why I just draw a bunch of tallies on a notecard. Throw out the notecard if it ever gets gnarly.
Wish I could do the same thing with hit points, but you get way too many as you level up.
what exactly makes an RPG old-school?
>>44123489
It's a gaming philosophy.
1. Player skill is the primary test. You're supposed to be smart and come up with solutions, not just rely on your sheet to tell you what to do.
2. The rules are divided into modular subsystems and there isn't a core rule for everything.
3. It's more important to go on fantastic adventures than to roleplay the exact attitude and actions of some grumpy dwarf or whatever.
I think that's the gist. Most OSR systems are retroclones (modified versions of another edition of D&D, like Moldvay Basic or OD&D).
>>44123181
Oh, so like Last Gasp Grimoire's light checks, but for ammo? That's a neat idea.
>>44122443
This. A transparent hex overlay's stupidly useful (to a hexcrawl gamer).
>>44122648
The butiful map is for you. The players get a blank hex sheet. Everything doesn't have to be a prop; as long as the map inspires you, it's not a waste.
Anyone need help with anything? Characters? Spells? Items? Dungeons?
I'm a little bored, willing to help make shit up if you need it.
>>44123088
>>44123142
>>44123181
This came in the goodman games gazette that came with my monster alphabet.
>>44126159
Cont
>>44126211
Last bit
>>44126159
>>44126211
>>44126218
I think people should know when they're on their last arrow, so if I did this, I'd add a "1" below "d3", so that that when the d3 rolled 1, that would indicate you used your second-to-last arrow. For things like wands or rayguns, where you aren't physically grabbing each shot like you are with a bow, you could probably skip the "1" step.
Also, fuck using a d3. Why would you... oh, yeah. Because DCC has a dice fetish. But I'd either stop at d4 or just use the dice pool method with d6s (with a "1" step after you lose your last die).
>>44126416
Well, a single to-hit roll can be various shots the same way a melee one can be a series of attacks, but I do see your point, the last shot is always a cool moment.
Is there something like a book with monster descriptions?
I'm legendarily inept at making monsters seem interesting and maybe recognizable by description alone, and somethink like this would be of great help.
Basically looking for flavor text that makes me not have to drop the monster's name.
>>44126705
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_index.php
I'm supposed to be running an adventure in a few hours and I haven't even decided what I want to do. I'm thinking about Keep on the Borderlands with some extra encounters thrown in, and all of the species in the caves changed to tribes of beastmen.
>>44126705
Might want to check Isle of the Unknown.
It's a hexcrawl and every monster has its own picture.
The thing is...most of them are stupid. Like really fucking stupid. Pic related is a thin panda with a scorpion's tail. You can't describe that to your players, so you don't. Kinda.
You describe it literally without using any animal nouns.
>You can clearly see the bones of the beast, covered in fur. It's eyes, arms and legs are the color of the night, while it's chest and tail are a dirty tone of white. You can see the metallic shimmer on the tip of it's tail while it advances intently.
I'm sure at this point my player don't see anything resembling a panda. They only see a new and unknown monster.
>>44127206
THIS.
NEVER describe something as "like a panda / like a scorpion / like a beetle but purple."
>>44126218
I just did some tests with this and the math is pretty good.
And it has that element of excitement to it.
Love it.
>>44124327
I need spell-list.
Specifically, Elemental (Air-Earth-Fire-Stone) spells. 5 useful of each, 1 for each spell level.
>>44122532
What's this from? I like it, but it's no good without knowing how many stone are required to lower your movement.
>>44128416
It's on the right-hand side. A character's maximum load in stone is equal to their strength. Divide strength in thirds for the other categories: up to 1/3 strength for 12" move, 2/3 for 9", full for 6"
>>44127640
So wait, are you saying you need 5 elemental spells for each element for each spell level or?
Because that's almost 200 spells, I can't help you with a project of that size.
>>44130518
>It's on the right-hand side.
So it is.
https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/gw.html
>Hex Sheets is also a 50-page top-tearing pad, produced in 1978. It was designed for wilderness mapping, and is compatible with all versions of D&D (Original, Basic, and Advanced). (Thanks to Aaron Leeder for help with this info). Additionally, an earlier (much more rare) version of the Hex Sheets was produced by Games Workshop in 1977. This version was sold as single sheets only -- never as a pad -- and was sized British A3 (11 3/4" high x 16 1/2" across). The sheet was oriented in landscape format, as evidenced by the single identifying marking on it: "Games Workshop 1977" in the lower right-hand corner. Contributor Hussain Zaman remembers buying these directly from the Games Workshop store in 1977 (from Steve Jackson himself!), so it's possible that's the only place they were sold.
Unlikely, but does anyone have scans or pictures of these?
>>44131921
Apologies for not being clear.
I need 1 spell of each element for each spell level out of 5 spell levels.
I.e. 20 spells in total (4 elements x 5 spell levels)
>>44132419
Oh ok, 5 spell levels. I can work with that.
I'll mention ahead of time that I make a lot of really specific/minor utility spells and enjoy them for Wizards. Also I hate elemental magic. But I'll help you out anyway because I want to help you out!
Here we go!
>Level 1
>Fire- Seeking Slame
Fires out a candle sized flame that seems to home in on the targeted flammable object, usually fabric. When cast on an enemy it will follow them and attempt to connect, resistant to being put out before it lands and quickly catches whatever it touches on fire. Useful as a combat spell.
>Water- Cycling
You make water stir itself. Not only can this be used to stir potions and stews, but it can also be used on dirty water to keep most of the muck out of the top most area in the center. Additionally; if cast upon or around swimming creatures it will give a negative to any swim checks trying to swim through it.
>Earth- Shifting
Point to any patch of dirt. The earth will shift and bring up the rough type of earth you want. You can make it bring forth sand, soil, rocks of various sizes, clay, or water buried underground. Can also be used to dislodge things buried in that area but only if the caster knows about that object can it be called up.
>Air- Cycling
Same as water cycling. Instead creates a spinning breeze that knocks away smoke and most poisonous gases. Does not spontaneously create fresh air however unless a source of fresh air is present.
>Level 2
>Fire- Updraft
Creates an incredibly strong upward rush of hot air. Anyone carrying a blanket or sheet they can hold like an parachute could be used to make them fly upwards, but this is dangerous. Additionally this move can unchill and dry an entire group of people and all their equipment for a few seconds while it blows, as well as melt a ton of ice or snow.
>Level 2 cont.
>Water- Flowing
You can make water flow on channels that are simply not there, as well as make it flow uphill. The water appears to move on its own will through the air, but if heavily disturbed the spell may end and the water collapse where it lay. Otherwise it could be used to move water between two pools with incredible speed, or even move water over a burning building to help put it out.
>Earth- Entomb
You can make anything currently standing or laying on bare earth start getting sucked in. Humans and living creatures get a reflex save to avoid being pulled in but otherwise they will slowly sink down to a number of feet equal to Caster level. If humans go in over their head they will begin to suffocate.
>Air- Crackle
You can light the air with electrical energy. Static discharge is instead warped into the air and instead waits until either a code word is spoken or a metallic object you have designated has been touched. It deals a moderate amount of shock damage to whoever activated it. It is a decent trap but remember most things can sense the energy in the air and if they know their are in a Wizard's domain they may realize something is wrong, or wear nonconductive gloves as to avoid the trap being set off.
>Level 3
>Fire- Invisible Flame
You magically work an object as if it was being cooked, smelted, or otherwise worked by a source of heat with rapid speed and precision. For example, take raw meat and cook it to whatever level you wish but within a span of a few seconds instead of a few minutes or hours. Fire a claw pot in a moment, or make a blade red hot within a moment of concentration.
>Water- Pressure
You can manipulate the pressure, construction, and apparent weight of water to make it into a weapon. You must directly splash or move water onto the target for this spell to work. For example a splash from your canteen can slam the target to the ground as if it was under a deep ocean pressure or slash them as if it was razor sharp.
>Level 3 cont.
>Earth- Coat
You magically cover a target in what appears to be a paint with a stone-level of hardness and resistance. This does make whatever you covered heavier, but each attack that hits a covered part deals minimal damage to what's underneath, instead cracking the stone. If used on a blunt weapon increases its damage for one attack then shatters off, if used on a person it will make it hard for them to move but they can snap off some parts relating to their joints so they can move about, encumbered as if in heavy armor however.
>Air- Creation
You can create a phenomenon relating to air. This includes odors, smoke or fog, the sounds of a storm (but no actual storm), and fresh or poisonous air in an enclosed space.
>Level 4
>Fire- Subservient Flame
You can trap a flame in a physical vessel or into the shape of a physical object. This flame still hungers for flammable material but does not try to escape its no confines. For example a sword made of flame burns nothing except what its blade touches. The fire within this object however can be unnaturally larger then what the object's actual size is, and anything struck by it is hit as though consumed by that very same flame, meaning a flaming sword that graces a tree will cause the thing to erupt in a moment.
>Water- Desiccation
Any living thing that you target with this spell will be severely dehydrated. Plants will wilt and humans will feel extremely thirsty and tired. If they were already dry before they may well pass out or suffer worse. Being supremely dehydrated causes physical and mental problems and multiple castings of this spell could easily kill a person.
>Earth- Erecting
You may erect a pillar, wall, statue, or some other architectural feature from the loose dirt and stone. It seems to just jut right out of the ground, but is still made of packed dirt and stone meaning it can be easily picked apart by hands and tools and would probably fall away in the rain.
>Level 4 cont.
>Air- Jolt
You create a static bolt of lightning that strikes at least one target in range. If a second person is nearby, they take the bolt as well with some reduced damage. Note that this hits anyone, not just enemies.
>Level 5
>Fire- Explosion
You create an explosion at the relative position you wish. The power of this explosion is somewhat variable and the explosion is stronger if flammable materials are present; each person or object consumed by the explosion will make its total volume and power a little bit bigger.
>Water- States
You can change the states of water; solid, liquid, or gas, nearly at will. This allows you to create solid shards of ice in the air and throw them, or turn water into orbs of ice that leak water vapor, etc.
>Earth- Melting
Melt a solid object that comes from the Earth. It becomes a slick, clay-like substance that will gradually harden back into its normal hardness, but not its old shape.
>Air- Solidify
Create a solid barrier, walkway, trap, or other object of the air itself. It cannot be of much sharpness, most of its edges are rounded, but it can trap people in invisible boxes.
And that's all I got; hope that helped you out man. I'm not sure how hopeful these really all are but they seemed to make sense as I was writing them; getting farther from the core of the element as they went. Your welcome!
>>44132714
>>44133128
>>44132931
>>44133268
Hmm... Interesting. Not all are useful, but they'll help a lot.
Thanks!
>>44102633
>I don't see how physical strength makes you any more precise with the strokes of a sword
>Not understanding how d&d combat works
Its not about one precise stroke, its about likelihood to do damage over a round.
If arnold schwartzeneggar comes up and starts beating the shit out of you with a huge ass sword, he's more likely to land a good blow than a weakling.
>>44126218
But... with this any die steps, how is this different from just tracking the arrows by number? It doesn't seem to be a savings of any kind. Genuinely don't get it.
>>44102633
>I don't see how physical strength makes you any more precise with the strokes of a sword
If you'd done any kind of fencing, you would see. Arm strength correlates directly and strongly with precision.
>>44137177
Because instead of 25 character sheet changes, you make 5.
>>44103095
Also I haven't updated this yet but I did add 4 more alternate classes. I don't feel these really mesh with OSR but I like all of them.
I have here a pure healer the CULTIST, an alchemist and mutationist called a CONCOCTOR, a nature loving POACHER and finally a martial artist VAGRANT.
If anyone likes these classes let me know, I need to know how to improve them and make them more mechancially sound, especially the Monk. I tried pretty hard, like with the original 4 classes, to make most or ever stat useful and have 'builds' that branch out in any direction needed.
Here's a pastebin.
http://pastebin.com/EYf72GGE
why do all these rule books insist on character "class"? why not skill-based characters?
what makes a "druid" able to commune with nature? why isnt that available to everyone?
what makes a "mage" able to cast a fireball? what cant the next person learn the same?
>>44137669
Because you're playing D&D, not gurps.
>>44137669
As people have said a lot of times in various threads, class and classless systems both have their place.
In games involving single player antics, superheroes, high fantasy and modern day stuff, classes don't tend to make a whole lot of sense.
But in low fantasy games, especially dungeon crawlers like /osr/, classes matter as a way to both force a party to stick together and to give everyone a strong and important role.
I know a lot of people, including myself, limit magical powers to certain people born with the gift as to explain why everyone in the world doesn't just have whatever they want or why people don't go flying around on magic carpets instead of horses or whatever. If everyone was allowed to throw a fireball or commune with nature it would cheapen the mystery and fantasy; these things are only available to those who master them instead of just any joe shmoe.
The restriction of a class based system can sometimes breed creativity instead of squash it, and I know from experience that when people play classless games they often will either specialize in one thing like a class or they do a sort of cookie cutter thing that makes their character not very interesting. (Usually 1 combat skill, 1 social ability or magic, 1 useful utility skill or magic, etc.)
Essentially if everyone was a rounded character the loss or inclusion of one or the other is kind of boring and pointless. So I see why classes are sometimes a big advantage.
>>44137841
mind iterating on the distinction between low and high fantasy? specifically, would a class or class-less system make more sense in a high fantasy setting? why or why not?
>>44137669
>why character class?
makes setup easier. pick a class and off you go.
>why druids commune with nature?
because druids are weirdos. what does "communing with nature" mean, anyways? clearly since only one class can do it, it means that most people aren't that close to nature. not even farmers- they don't see themselves as "part of nature," they're obviously above it. nature is for their exploitation. who cares what nature "wants," dude, just plant your crops and pray to the harvest gods that it turns out ok.
>why can't anybody learn to throw fireballs
because magic is something you learn in towers after a decade of study. it's not an easy thing to learn, and it's not an innate part of mankind. it's a discipline like learning latin, or learning to read. or calculus.
>>44138194
I can't speak for everyone because high vs low fantasy is a big arguing point but essentially if you are talking about high fantasy then everyone can use a little magic, fighters have super powers, etc. So classless works a bit better here because you could be a sword mage and learn spells or fighting techniques, learn how to fly or make energy blasts like anime, etc.
Lower fantasy usually implies heroes struggling against even mundane threats like wolves and cold and drowning and such, so classes of specialized characters to get an edge makes sense.
>>44137669
>>44137841
>>44138286
>>44139634
Someone had the idea of that everyone had the "Adventurer" class, but each level you chose which "path" of upgrades you get. Has a bit more of a "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser"-feel to it: [4Chan keeps on saying it's spam, but it's from the "whatwouldconando" blogspot, "how to be an adventurer" from January this year.]
It's for Lamentations of the Flame Princess but it wouldn't take too much to get it to fit other Retroclones.
>>44101135
>https://mega.co.nz/#F!7JNAmLYZ!7ppr91IllF6cMIFW5xXdwg
trove got taken down :(
>>44142294
Working fine for me.
>>44142294
As I mentioned in >>44101168 that's an old pasta I posted accidentally. For the current link check the OP.
has anyone ever played starships and spacemen? is it any good?
>>44126416
If you were to do the three dice pool (or go d8, d6, d4, 1), you could refer to the categories as such:
many arrows / high ammo (3 dice)
some arrows / moderate ammo (2 dice)
a few arrows / low ammo (1 die)
one arrow / last shot
So when somebody asks how many arrows you have left, you don't have to say something artificial like "1 die worth". Instead you can say "a few".
>buy the Gygax Memorial Fund reprints of AD&D 1e's PHB and DMG for cheap at the LGS
>get myself the premium edition reprints of the 2e MM/PHB/DMG as a christmas present
I've wanted the 2e reprints for a while, but does anybody know about the general quality of these 1e reprints?
>>44137669
All these people giving theories about gameplay and whatever are thinking about this way too hard.
The reason there are rigid classes in D&D is each one correlates to some exemplar Gygax really liked in fiction.
The Wizard is one of Vance's wizards, hence the magic system.
The Barbarian is Conan, hence the hatred of magic items.
The Halfling, when it was still a class, was originally called a Hobbit. It was basically a thief. Guess why.
And so on for all the rest.
D&D is a game about playing characters from existing works of fiction, not a game about making your own. You have no need for skill based point buy systems or whatever when you're meant to be saying "today I'm going to play Conan."
The OSR, which was designed to basically copy D&D, copied this approach too. Which makes sense, given the copying.
I like money = xp more than pig skulls = xp, but I have a bit of a problem with the redundancy that causes: you earn money, making you better, then spend the money to get better equipment.I'm using LotFP so casters always have something to spend money on, and I multiply the costs of all decent-quality wargear by a factor of 10, so low-level fighters are always saving too.
I wonder if I should attempt to fuck my players over further by only awarding Experience for WASTING treasure: having your clothes embroidered with golden stars and moons, have your name engraved into your plate, use silk handkerchiefs where rags would suffice, carousing and paying beggars to dance. The flimsy justification is that all this stuff makes you characters more known, more interesting, more of a force in the world. Now you have to plan what money to invest and what to burn for xp.
I think that will work well with my group, because we like silly stuff, but it might be also a bit too hardcore.
Has any of you tried this? Is there a system that does this? Any blogposts in the depths of the OSR?
>>44147503
> 1e reprints
I've been told there are some misprints.
Apparently, original 1e got scanned, but not everything got properly recognized.
>>44147602
>D&D is a game about playing characters from existing works of fiction, not a game about making your own. You have no need for skill based point buy systems or whatever when you're meant to be saying "today I'm going to play Naruto
THIS IS NOT OK
>>44147602
The rigidity is also because OD&D was based on a fucking wargame where the cannons were made into wizards and shit. Frankly, the association with Vance's work is important but part of it is that everything Jack Vance wrote is impossibly convenient if you're looking at it from the perspective of early roleplaying games. It's like Dying Earth was an instruction manual for how to invent D&D, purpose-written by old Jack. Praise be his name.
>>44147637
They're not wrong
But in the very beginning, D&D was designed with a bit more flexibility in mind I think. The Fighting Man could be Fafhrd or the Mouser or Conan. The only thing the system really gave you was how to resolve combat, the rest of what the character did was up to the player and the referee
http://www.lulu.com/shop/http://www.lulu.com/shop/justen-brown/for-gold-glory/ebook/product-22356395.html
2E clone.
>>44147624
>XP for spending money
>Has any of you tried this? Is there a system that does this? Any blogposts in the depths of the OSR?
Yeah, there are tons. I don't want this to sound douchey, but XP for money spent on personal interests was how Arneson did it in Blackmoor. I think Jeff Rients (who wrote that system you pic related) ended up going there too.
It works well, but only if you discard the D&D endgame of building (which needs all that money for barbicans and curtain walls).
Anyone got ASE1?
>>44147857
It's in the Trove.
Now if only someone had ASE2-3
>>44147872
I'll kiss anyone who donates ASE 2-3
Incredibly good and inspiration stuff.
ASE4-5 will probably never come out though
I'm looking for some books by Alexis Smolensk (the Tao of DnD guy).
- How to Run: An Advanced Guide to Managing Role-playing Games
- How to Play a Character & Other Essays
- The Dungeon's Front Door & Other Things in the Deep Dark
Does anyone have any of those?Nope. They aren't in the Trove. I can't seem to find those anywhere.
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea...anyone got it?
>>44149371
Check the trove in the /osr/ thread.
Pray for me OSR so I can muster up the strength to network myself through my local game stores to find some decent people to play with.
I really wanna play some chill dungeons and dragons but it really feels like a chemistry thing.
>>44147654
Yeah. I read dying earth and the eyes of the overworld this summer. You could probably turn most of the stories there into parts of a campaign.
>>44150674
Best advice to give you is:
Be relaxed and don't feel bad if it doesn't work out.
It's not personal.
I have people I hold incredibly dear, but I'd never play a game with them.
>>44100924
I'm tweaking demons and looking for advice. Demons, devils, etc were made up as the writers went along and thus have an extreme eclectic feel IMO. While normally I wouldn't bother with a distinction I wanted to take a more holistic approach.
The typical story goes that demons are ancient creatures of chaos/evil and devils are fallen/evil angels and the two often conflict due to philosophical differences. There are other differences but that is the main one.
Under the holistic approach, I wanted demons and devils to not just act clearly different but to look clearly different as well. Something archetypal like the Balrog from LotR versus Darkness from Legend. The designs of the various Type # demons and devils would follow from this.
Advice? Arguments?
>>44150806
Have the holistic ordered design for the fallen angels, basically mirror the not fallen ones in terms of hierarchy and orientation but taken to extremes unconcerned with pain/suffering of others.
If the demons are ancient evils of chaos, they probably don't have a consistent over all genealogy. They can be anyone/thing that was powerful enough to join the club.
>>44150786
Yeah sort of where I'm at. I live in a decently sized city so ill find some people just gotta start somewhere. There isn't anyone I know now I'd be really down with playing dnd with but
>>44151178
You'll do it anon.
Can I get a Basic D&D module suggestion?
I'm running b4 - The Lost City for my roomies using the 1974 Style ultralight (with some homebrewed rules. They're 100% new to roleplaying.) and It's pretty fun so far. I'd like something that has some dungeon crawling while also having some city exploration.
I've heard good things about the Veiled Society.
>>44153115
Veiled Society is awful. It's just a start to finish railroad.
>>44147602
Nah, I'm looking at it from a perspective of "why have these things endured" rather than "why did they start out the way they did."
The reason people still use classes and don't jettison them like the other rules people houserule out (and then turn into their actual hardbound rulebook) is because it has actual benefits to it.
Nobody's looking at these old rulbooks and uncritically copying them. (I mean, some of them are- but only when that's the actual purpose of it, like LL and S&W.) People are looking at these old books, taking the things they love, and discarding the things they hate. Character classes are one of the most common things to keep, and there are multiple reasons for that.
>>44153115
I would like these reccs, but for any of the OD&D, BD&D or AD&D adventures.
I've read plenty of OSR stuff but I don't know anything about the actually good old stuff. People typically don't talk about them since I a lot of people were around to play them and it's just assumed base knowledge. Unfortunately I was too young then so I don't know any of the real classics. It would be nice to get some context for what the OSR adventures I've come to love is trying to be like.
TL;DR Tell me what the classics are.
>>44155139
Everyone has their own preferences. For example: http://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?page_id=844
>>44155616
Yes, I am already quite aware of Bryce's blog, but like I said, he only reviews OSR content or stuff he never read back then (like the piece of shit that is Dungeon Magazine). He doesn't see the need to review or even really recommend content from his childhood.
I'm looking for actual classics. You know, original TSR modules that were REALLY good. Of course third party content that was really good is great too though.
>>44153115
There's no good literally Basic city-exploration module, basically by design -- in spite of The Veiled Society (and I agree with >>44153372), Basic in the sense of the B in B/X and BECMI was deliberately focused on dungeon play, with the Expert box adding in most of the world outside the dungeon. My suggestion is that you check out City-State of the Invincible Overlord for the city parts; it should be in the Trove, it's a top-tier classic, and it has pretty much everything you could want, even though the JG statblock notation's kinda quirky. For the dungeon parts, you could either stock the included maps of dungeons under the city, or use something like B1, B3 or even B7 (the latter two adapted to take place in a city mansion or temple respectively) for the dungeon element.
>>44153115
Go to dragonsfoot. Get "spider farm" module. Not classic but ran it many times. Solid and can be dropped into any campaign.
>>44153115
What about Dwellers of the Forbidden City ?
Or is this not the kind of city exploration you would prefer?
>>44155139
By my lights the most classic modules, i.e. the ones generally considered the best, are Keep on the Borderlands, The Lost City, White Plume Mountain, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Tomb of Horrors, Night's Dark Terror, the original Castle Ravenloft and the Giants series (G1-3), especially G1. I guess maybe Village of Hommlet as well, but I feel like that one's crippled by the rest of the T series never being written as intended.
Almost every single D&D fan will know about these modules, even if they haven't played them.
>>44100924
Where does 13th age fit into OSR? How does it compare to other games?
>>44156624
13th Age isn't really part of the OSR, I think? It's following in the footsteps of 3E and 4E more than TSR, I feel.
>>44156703
Yep, this.
>>44156237
Too modern in design, doesn't really hits that osr feel.
So I see a lot of /osr/ stuff that shows how desperate level 1 characters are and how they have to grow, etc.
But how many people actually get beyond level 1? It seems like much of the content and stuff is geared to starting out or new characters since the mortality rate is so high.
>>44158034
>But how many people actually get beyond level 1?
Oh, it happens all the time, it's just that by the time the magic-users hit level 3, the campaign's sort of self-sustaining and doesn't need as much tending. The referee's found his feet and the players have found their motivation or quit.
>It seems like much of the content and stuff is geared to starting out or new characters since the mortality rate is so high.
I guess it can seem that way, sure, but if you flip open the magic, treasure, domain, or monster chapters of the RC you'll quickly notice that most of the content there's for levels 5 and up. What I think *is* true is that a lot of OSR referees want to get to the "meaty" bits right away while not wanting to just start at a higher level and skip level 1, so they make stuff catering to their own (and their players'?) impatience.
>>44156131
Seconding the City State. While the contents may be odd (like "what's a genie doing running a candle hop?" weird) the map itself is amazing, and easily my favorite city map ever.
>>44156703
How does it compare?
>>44158612
>While the contents may be odd (like "what's a genie doing running a candle hop?" weird)
Arguably this is a good thing. Answering that question without creating at least one adventure idea's basically impossible.You do have to like that style of fantasy, though, I won't pretend otherwise.
>>44158693
It doesn't really make any sense to compare them, they're very different things. Suffice to say 13th Age isn't OSR.
any homebrewed rules to make characters with atleast average scores in most attributes?
like maybe 3d6 (+2 to the two lowest scores) or anything else you can think of, preferably without making them all super powerful too
gonna be a few peoples first rpg experience
Has 4e been dead long enough to count as old-school?
>>44158612
PDF? Can't find it in the trove
>>44163453
old-school is a genre/playstyle more than it is an era, and 4e is not that genre/playstyle. You can try, but it'll fight you, because 4e is about having well-defined mechanical abstract interactions, and OSR is about having defined world-interactions.
>>44163453
>Has 4e been dead long enough to count as old-school?
TSR-era D&D is built on the same core system, with all pre-3e editions being essentially compatible. It also spanned more than a quarter century, which is greater than 60% of the time that D&D has existed. By contrast, 4e is less than a decade old. So by the internal standards of D&D, it by no means qualifies. Honestly, even in another 20 or 30 years, I'd imagine that old-school D&D will keep its current connotation, with 4e occupying some sort of middle category (middle school?) between old school and what will then be current.
>>44164383
Look in the Judges Guild folder, second file from the bottom.
>>44163453
>>44164586
cont:
It's a generalisation, but generally in OSR, interaction with the dice is generally a failure of the player - all their ingenuity failed them in this situation and it was left in the hands of chance (the game mechanics). The onus is on the GM to use the rules to simulate the world.
In a modern design, you are expected to frequently interact with the mechanics because the mechanics themselves are expected to be well-designed enough to feed into each other appropriately. The onus is instead on the game designer to make sure the game has the proper flow.
>>44164793
jesus fuck that's a giant PNG where you should've had a tiny JPG
also not sure if that image is meant to mean anything. that's a 5e fireball and a 4e fireball. You'll note that they say almost the exact same thing (minus the 'at higher levels' thing) so the demonstration is really that 4e spells have neat organisation and 5e spells have no sane organisation and waste page space.
>>44161709
>>44161709
anyone?
>>44164793
Eh, there's an -utter fuckload- of scenarios where player ingenuity just isn't going to help. Remember, most OSR characters start off as a feeble incompetent who, on top of that, is blind as a bat while carrying around giant beacons to alert the enemy of their location. Getting unavoidably fucked over by orcs and goblins and so forth are a key part of the OSR experience.
On top of the fact that there's a significant amount of foes you can't flee from and who can see you while you can't see them, you're also just plain going to be surprised a lot.
What you're talking about is more of a thing in Tomb of Horrors etcetera. It also depends on how kind and gentle the DM is -- for example, check out how incredibly generous Gygax was with Robilar. Most DMs just plain aren't as nice as Gary, and are unlikely to give you perfectly loyal sacrificial fodder.
>>44163453
Editions about optimizing PC builds just plain aren't OSR.
Kits were a garbage idea, but at least they were a level 1 thing.
>>44158034
In my experience, in, say, 1e/2e, a decent number of level 1 PCs will survive if you make use of casting time rules. The Sleep spell lets you win inits and disable most encounters, same with Web.
The demihuman scout that gives you a surprise bonus is fucked, however.
The main issue, in my experience, is training costs, not actually XP/survival -- its very hard to keep up with training costs.
>>44158034
>>44166688
And conversely, if you have flat out no magic users, fights (and there will usually be fights) are coin flips at low level. You will basically suffer huge, inevitable attirition until the party lucks out and gets some gems or magic items that gives enough of an XP boost to automatically hit level 2 and stop dying everywhere.
If the PCs can hire easy unlimited mercs then the game becomes easy mode, of course.
>>44166768
>If the PCs can hire easy unlimited mercs then the game becomes easy mode, of course.
If you can hire unlimited mercs then you probably have enough GP to level up at least once anyway.
>>44164793
Meanwhile, all the text I could find about Fireball in the LBBs:
>Fire Ball: A missile which springs from the finger of the Magic-User. It explodes with a burst radius of 2" (slightly larger than specified in CHAINMAIL). In a confined space the Fire Ball will generally conform to the shape of the space (elongate or whatever). The damage caused by the missile will be in proportion to the level of its user. A 6th level Magic-User throws a 6-die missile, a 7th a 7-die missile, and so on. (Note that Fire Balls from Scrolls (see Volume II) and Wand are 6-die missiles and those from Staves are 8-die missiles. Duration: 1 turn. Range: 24
>While some referees allow Fire Balls and Lightning Bolts to be hurled in confined spaces, blasting sections of the stone equal to the remainder of their normal shape, it is suggested that the confined space cause these missiles to rebound toward the sender, i.e. a Lightning bolt thrown down a corridor 40 feet long will rebound so as to reach its stated length of 6" (60 feet underground), and this will mean the sender is struck by his own missile. It may also be compromised, allowing say two feet of stone wall to be destroyed (allowing one foot of stone destroyed for every ten feet the space is short of full distance) and rebounding the missile onehalf the distance short.
You'll need Chainmail to get all the rules for it, of course, like the targeting rules (state X and Y - note how this is still in, if vestigially, in the 3E "fluff") and rules for indirect fire and whatnot.
In OD&D you can cast a spell once per turn, twice if you've got really high adjusted dexterity and are casting a low-level spell in Eldritch Wizardry, while melee attackers get in up to six to ten attacks depending on interpretation.
AD&D changed that, obv.
>>44168038
>melee attackers get in up to six to ten attacks depending on interpretation.
What.
>>44151178
Any update on this, Anon?
>>44168038
>If you can hire unlimited mercs then you probably have enough GP to level up at least once anyway.
Not at all, the default mercs is -insanely- low. The average starting party will have enough gold to turn the campaign into easy street if you let mercs follow the party into the dungeon, not demand an equal share of wealth, etc.
>>44168086
It's the subject of heated debate, and has been so for years (it's worth noting that Gygax never played it so, but he didn't really play OD&D as it was printed anyway), but here's the highlights:
>CHAINMAIL states that there are one-minute turns, with melee rounds continuing into infinity until one side is either dead or has fled due to morale - missile fire happens twice in a turn, artillery fire once
>Man-to-Man doesn't change any of that, and only changes the resolution tables to something more granular and impractical for mass combat
>Men & Magic changes the tables yet again, yet doesn't actually give any rules for combat beyond "look it up in Chainmail, you own that right? Hope you got taught how to play by someone who does!"
>Underworld & Wilderness Adventures had combat rules in the '73 draft, but they got cut and all that remains is that each turn has 10 rounds of combat (hence the 1-minute combat round in AD&D - some argue that this is just a subdivision and limit on the otherwise indefinite number of rounds in a 1-minute Chainmail combat turn)
>Eldritch Wizardry introduces a new D&D initiative system... that has six segments per round, melee presumably in every segment since it's otherwise unmentioned, and missile fire/spellcasting dependent on your Dexterity but mostly 1-2/turn.
But like I said, it's up for debate. Also, did you know that both Chainmail and Monsters & Treasure hint that the Hero can find hidden/invisible enemies without giving rules for it? OD&D is annoying like that.
>>44168086
>>44168263
oh, per turn in the OD&D/AD&D sense of it, not like people actually launching a million attacks per action
>>44168263
Also, just to mention it:
>Melee is fast and furious. There are ten rounds of combat per turn.
>fast and furious
>one-minute rounds
>1974+41
>I seriously hope you guys don't do this
>>44168254
Did you miss the bit where you need to pay 1d6*100GP/week to advertise, with that not being an automatic success?
Also, you need a 100gp/month armorer for every 50 men, and a 25gp/month smith for every 50 horses.
Also also, every multiple of three multiplies the size of wandering monster encounters/lairs in dungeons. (The base size is undefined, but 1d6 for "normals" and 1 for "fantastics" seems pretty good - I think it was in the '73 draft?)
Also, of course, cheap Men-at-Arms have shit morale. And are pretty shit in general unless you pay up a bit. Better to grab retainers - they're generally just plain better.
>>44168344
Oh, they do that too. It's just exclusively vs. man-types, that probably being the critters on the monster tables with hundreds of Numbers Appearing. Monsters get one attack per hit die plus the plusses on one of them, players get attacks as per their Fighting Capability. Fantastic combat is 1 hit/round, as per Chainmail.
Players probably count as man-types until their FC shows "Hero-1", BTW. Also, Veterans get +1 to hit goblins!
Also, you can't fire spells or missiles into melee just FYI. Since most monsters will be in melee pretty quickly, this doesn't change too much beyond speeding up combat.
Hope you have lots of d20s.
>>44168389
>Did you miss the bit where you need to pay 1d6*100GP/week to advertise, with that not being an automatic success?
Nopers. Did you miss the bit where that section is on henchmen (which are essentially PC tier in their own right), not mercenaries?
>Also, you need a 100gp/month armorer for every 50 men
Wow, its fucking nothing.
>Also also, every multiple of three multiplies the size of wandering monster encounters/lairs in dungeons.
I don't keep an encyclopedic record of every minor rule, of every subpartition of every edition, especially not editions where they don't even bother to say how many monsters you encounter in the first place..
>Also, of course, cheap Men-at-Arms have shit morale.
They have virtually the same morale as any other NPC. There is a slight bonus to morale for level/HD in 2e, not sure if its there in 1e, but that's it.
>Better to grab retainers -- they're generally just plain better
They aren't employable for virtually free like men-at-arms are.
>>44168427
>Nopers. Did you miss the bit where that section is on henchmen (which are essentially PC tier in their own right), not mercenaries?
U&WA p.23
>MEN-AT-ARMS:
>Hired fighters can be men, dwarves or elves. Chaotic characters may wish to employ Orcs; Orc support and upkeep is only half that of a man. Men-at-Arms require support and upkeep as follows:
>[Insert various direct conversions of Chainmail point costs into GP here]
>OBTAINING SPECIALISTS & MEN-AT-ARMS:
>In order to hire either of these classes of persons it is necessary to do one or both of the following: Post notices in conspicuous places, stating the positions open and who is offering such employ; or have servitors circulate in public places, seeking such persons as are desired. The weekly cost of either method is from 100-600 Gold Pieces. The referee must determine the probability of the success of the attempt based upon the generosity of the offer made and so on. Elves and Dwarves are not common, and specialists are even less so.
Are you telling me that the section entitled "Obtaining [...] Men-at-Arms" that says "to hire either of these classes" (the previous two being, well, specialists and men-at-arms) is actually about the cost of obtaining hirelings and not men-at-arms?
I mean, M&M p.12 clearly says that hirelings ALSO use those rules or something similar but it's clearly a thing for men-at-arms as well.
>>Also, of course, cheap Men-at-Arms have shit morale.
>They have virtually the same morale as any other NPC. There is a slight bonus to morale for level/HD in 2e, not sure if its there in 1e, but that's it.
It's OD&D, which means that the morale for light foot/heavy foot/etc. is listed in Chainmail because of course it is, why bother reprinting rules when you can assume that the target audience obviously has your mostly unrelated wargame.
Light Foot make morale check on losing 25% men, and need to roll 8+ (~42%) to not flee like the cowards they are.
>>44168614
Heavy Foot, meanwhile, need to lose 33% before they need to roll 7+ to stay.
Both automatically disband once they lose 75%/67% casualties, at which point they presumably say "fuck this shit" and leave.
D&D also makes them roll morale checks "whenever a highly dangerous or un-nerving situation arises", although those just make them not act as expected rather than routing.
Speaking of routing, that's also a thing. Post-Melee Morale is a fucker, mostly because it's probably a pain to use in D&D but also because it can lead to your front line running away like the little bitches they are and leaving their backs (and magic-users) open.
Also, of course, monsters get one attack per hit die against them. They get it against PCs as well until third level (seventh for M-Us, sixth for Clerics), but if you're in a small group then it's easier to run the fuck away and live to fight again another day. Engaging in combat at low levels is a sucker's game, especially when they don't give that much experience to begin with. It plays better as Oceans Eleven than Lord of the Rings, really.
Also, it's pretty clear that the whole men-at-arms thing is meant for recruiting armies for the end-game wargame thingy. Hirelings are the low-level equivalent. The prices aren't balanced for low-level use because they're not meant for low-level use.
>>44166651
>you're just fucked by design
>you're auto-surprised
>you can't even run away
>Rob Kuntz wasn't tactically brilliant, no
>Gygax was just a kindhearted wuss
I guess it wouldn't be an OSR thread without our resident baloney peddler.
>>44168263
>>44168344
Wait, so, am I understanding this right, that by the rules of OD&D you can only cast one spell per ten-minute turn? That's why you can get in ten melee attacks per spell, not because of some bizarre attack hyperspeed rule?
>>44168389
>>44168614
>>44168767
You seem to have a great grasp of the OD&D rules, so let me ask a related question: is there even a difference between henchmen and retainers in OD&D? I've only read Greyharp, but the impression I got was that there isn't: they're a single category of thing (and thus the ad cost always applies).
>>44169560
Yeah, some guy has a surprisingly lasting hateboner for the OSR. Don't know *what* the fuck that's about.
>>44165973
>>44165973
Search the previous osr threads for "array", there's been some discussion of ways to generate random but fair stats, and arrays were one way to do so.
>>44168086
According to by the book od&d:
A magic-user can cast one spell per turn.
A 9th level "Lord" in comparison would get 90 attacks per turn against normal men.
Hey, Troveguy. I trawled through some old threads and found this - this probably has a place in the OD&D folder, what with how it's necessary to understand some rules regarding overland movement. ("Direction change" my ass. Fuck you too, Gygax.)
>>44169738
>Wait, so, am I understanding this right, that by the rules of OD&D you can only cast one spell per ten-minute turn? That's why you can get in ten melee attacks per spell, not because of some bizarre attack hyperspeed rule?
One spell per one-minute combat turn (as opposed to the ten-minute exploration turn or one-day wilderness turn, If you use EW, you get two spells per turn with an adjusted DEX of 15+.), with either one attack per six second round or one attack per ten second round depending on whether or not you use Eldritch Wizardry.
Multiplied by whatever your Fighting Capability is - a Super Hero would strike a blow every second, perhaps. That's roughly where it tops out for PCs, though.
When it says that they fight like three men, that means that they literally fight like three men.
Of course, they're also similarly bullshit in Chainmail rules since then heroes fight like eighty men.
>>44169738
>You seem to have a great grasp of the OD&D rules, so let me ask a related question: is there even a difference between henchmen and retainers in OD&D? I've only read Greyharp, but the impression I got was that there isn't: they're a single category of thing (and thus the ad cost always applies).
Not as far as I can tell, at least. I don't remember if "retainer" even shows up in the text.
I don't have that good a grasp of them, really, it's just that I've been trawling through some OD&D forums recently to figure out how the hell stuff works and have good memory for trivial bullshit. See also: Outdoor Survival, Chainmail, Don't Give Up The Ship, Fight in the Skies.
I just can't find a PDF of FitS/Dawn Patrol, though, and that makes me sad.
>>44170162
Lords have an FC of Superhero+1 - probably just eight attacks with a +1 on one of them, although a +1 on all could also work.
In mass combat it would be +1d6, if you extrapolate from magic weapons.
So eighty attacks per turn, but it's unlikely that that'll even happen - you can only attack those within 3", so you'll probably get rid of them quickly after just a few rounds.
It's very wargamey with buckets of dice.
Also, there's some random determination of hits that you might need to figure out but that mostly just seems like a pain. If you follow Chainmail then Heroes/Superheroes are immune to random hits and only take damage when specifically aimed at (something forbidden to normal men) or alone, which is pretty badass although I doubt anyone played like that.
From what I've heard, Gygax just had Superheroes roll 1d8 to see how many orcs they killed.
Here's a Gygax/Arnesson game about naval warfare that might seem familiar to those who have read through the last bits of Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.
>>44170319
Number of attacks in od&d is not determined by fighting capability, but by number of hit dice as stated in M&T.
FC is for chainmail compatibility.
Is there any nice summaries of The Keep On The Borderlands? It's a pretty chunky wall of text to try to just mow down. I'd much rather be able to get an overall feel for the adventure before nose diving into the meat of it.
>>44171365
Module includes map and key for:
>Town and keep
>Caves of Chaos (Dungeon)
>Local wilderness
The town is small and contains a lot of plot hooks and treasure. If your players are chaotic, they'll have a good time looting the town.
The dungeon is comprised of several, sometimes interconnected caves filled with various d&d humanoids, surrounding a central dark temple. The temple has a few fun traps, surprises and npcs.
Overall the adventure is very lighthearted, and very deadly if your players are not used to old school gaming. A four-character party attacking the caves head-on is suicide. A ten-man party and a like number of hirelings employing careful reconnaissance, negotiation, and outside-the-box thinking will have a fair shot at clearing a cave or two and returning with arm-loads of booty and magic.
There are some great resources at dragonsfoot and odd74 where people have made new dungeons, town expansions, 3d-models of the keep for sieges, tunnels running from town to the caves, etc.
Its a time-tested adventure that has introduced more players to d&d than any other module. It may seem vanilla, but if you're a good DM, its easy to make it terrifying, exciting, and mysterious.
>>44171365
>>44172368
Gary also includes a lot of great tips and tricks for newbie dms.
>>44166651
>>44169560
>>Rob Kuntz wasn't tactically brilliant, no
This one in particular is some serious high-level faggotry. Considering how many eyewitnesses are prepared to testify to his inordinate player skill, denying it's downright bizarre.
>he just threw in the fishing pole
>>44172368
>>44172396
Thanks anons. I'll try to see if I can't hook up a fame with my brother and his buddies, they seemed up for it.
>>44165973
>>44170032
here
>>44149437
D'oh! We are in the OSR thread. Well then, just check in the trove, dude.
Any advice on a bigger dungeon or perhaps megadungeon that i could use as the lower levels, basements, underneath weirdness below a castle? Any OSR adventure that'd fit the bill?
>>44171365
It's not a very complex adventure, but it's an amazing module to build off of. I recently mashed it together with an old adventure about a wererat in some sewers, and my players absolutely loved it.
Has anyone given the 5th edition of D&D a shot with running these old school adventures?
I feel like it would actually do pretty well.
>>44180983
Nah. 5e characters are extremely tough past 1st level. 5e is very much heroic fantasy. I've run some OSR in 5e and actively tried to make it tough, but apparently I've not gone far enough. Their challenge rating rules are laughable.
zine STILL hasn't dropped?
it's been like a week
>>44100924
The Men and Magic pdf in the trove has some really atrocious OCR, missing lines, etc. Does anyone have a better copy?
>>44180983
You have to hack the xp tables to hell to get that old school feel at all. The amount of xp to get to level 3 is laughable.
>>44175664
He wasn't some inherent napoleon.
Rob was just a kid who played a lot of d&d with gary, and when you played with gary you learned how to be a right smart bastard real fast, because otherwise your characters would keep dying.
>>44178115
wow very solid thank you
>>44183565
That sounds like a good theory, but it's not true. Rob had a great tactical mind before he ever met Gary, and was notorious among the wargaming crowd.
I recall reading that he was reputed to be a beast at Stratego, and despite many attempts Gary just couldn't beat him. (Very few people could.)
>>44183565
>Rob was just a kid who played a lot of d&d with gary
So were Mornard, Ernie and Luke, and any number of other kids. As far as I know they're all upfront about how what an insanely good player Rob was, to the point they like to tell stories about it.
Any other systems (beside DnD) that are OSR enough?
I've heard traveler before, any others?
>>44100924
The Trove doesn't have any Castle Zagyg modules for Castles & Crusaders, they were made by Gary himself and are the closest we'll come to the actual Castle Greyhawk.
When running a hexcrawl, would it be acceptable to uncover each hex as the players march through the wilderness?
Or should I still make them draw their own map?
>>44187112
Depends on the vibe you want I suppose
>>44180578
Isn't it basically, arrive at keep, talk to residents maybe get a quest, go to ravine, try to grab a pocket full of coins and a jewel or two in a cave without losing an arm?
>>44188403
What'd be some differences in vibe of those two approaches?
Bryce at tenfootpole has a huge aversion to humanoids in adventures.
What's /osr/'s general stance on that?
I'm honestly not sure if I mind them if they are utilized interestingly.
>>44188887
I have no problem with them just in general, but I do think that if your world building starts replacing different cultures and peoples with flying race, evil monster race, underground race, etc... then that's a copout.
>>44189148
In my case, it's the opposite, I believe.
If the races are well developed to the degree of their cultural differences being important as well, instead of just being generic no-face savages, then I'd say using humanoids is legit.
Has anyone here tried Into The Odd already?
I've skimmed through it and it sounds pretty amazing for fast, beer & pretzel dungeon delving.
>>44180983
I tried running the ASE that way.
Did not work well and we were all pretty unsatisfied.
>>44192384
To elaborate.
Low level combat is still plenty deadly and that was no problem for us.
But it starts falling apart when you consider magic spells. Combat took ages. And 5th ed combat isn't even that slow.
>>44191123
It looks interesting, do you have the PDF to share?
What's the opinion on best OSR megadungeon? Stonehell is really enjoyable due to the metastory and the fractions and rooms are cool themselves as well.
And the ASE has been a blast. Both in and out of the dungeon.
>>44192777
I've been reading through Stonehell, and there's a lot to like in it. I'd want to add more ways in though, and probably create some new connections between areas. I've also skimmed Dwimmermount, but I haven't had the chance to really read through it yet.
>>44106181
This is super useful, but why does he hate humanoids so much?
hey /OSR/, I've been watching a play through of Kings Quest 6, and that got me thinking about loot and the way your inventory is filled with misc stuff you end up using to solve puzzles in adventure games.
I think'd be nice to be able to find these kind of adventure game style item when you loot treasures and monsters, to give some variety.
Ultimately its a game of collecting wealth, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get creative with the junk you end up hoarding.
I'm thinking magic items in the style of a pair of boots that let you levitate for a short period, a black feather that is part of a charm that lets you paint a door that becomes real, the hanker chief of some fallen legend that will make local sell swords rally to you etc.
Things that add to the excitement of looting. I can't be the first one have this idea though so are there maybe blog posts or stuff like that about this already? Not just "imaginative loot" but the concept of using these items as ways to give players more options to overcome obstacles.
Getting an arsenal of magic items seems like an integral part of an /osr/ game, and I totally think it can be more than just wands and potions.
