>the npc the gm saddled you with at the beginning turns out to be the bad guy
>one of your players asks if he can be the bad guy
>the players were the bad guys the whole time
My GM was very mad at me when I discovered a plot similar to this because my character entered other character's dreams fairly regularly fishing around for info.
>>44099445
That's why I just let NPCs forced on the group die. Well, one reason.
>>44099476
>one of your players asks if he can be the big guy
>>44099445
>every time they wonder why you don't trust their NPCs
>they beg you to open up a little
>they call you a munchkin, a murderhobo, every name they can think of
>it begins to warm your heart
>eventually you comply
>immediate betrayal
>the shady npc that mysteriously shows up and leaves again turns out to not be the bad guy
>>44099706
... for you.
>The bad guy that you've been looking for turns out to be the good guy
>Your players kill the NPC character that tagged along thinking he was the bad guy
>>44099445
>The paladin who's been leading the party to save the world from the evil dragon goddess turns out to be The King in Yellow.
>>44099908
%triforce
>>44099911
>Paladins start turning up for every Old God
>>44099994
>none of them fall
>The ten thousand year old superdragon that's supposed to be a facet of an evil demigod is actually really nice, and has gifts and cookies aplenty for the party, as she counsels them on facing their phobias.
>>44100396
That sounds like a great twist.
SEDUCE DRAGON NOW
>>44100396
>turns out all the humans, dwarves, elves and halflings were just dragophobic bigots.
>>44099509
That's not a face I was expecting to see here.
>realizing you are in your dm's novel
>>44099509
>my warlock
>the bad guy is one of two NPCs traveling with the group
>bad guy dies during encounter by the will of the dice
>the group revives him
>good guy is torn between telling the party and a rough equivalent of morghul poison
>party ends session planning how to kill good guy
>>44099445
This is one of the better plot twists, though. You build an emotional bond, you believe that the person is acting rationally, you see their path diverge based on plausible circumstances, and your conflict usually becomes ideological in nature.
Games like Suikoden II and Final Fantasy Tactics used this trope to great effect.
>>44099706
>>44100424
One party member is working on it. Though dragon keeps insisting it's a bad idea for one so young to go after her.
To be fair, dude's fifty, and has no idea about the "is a god damned superdragon" bit, just assumes that she's a fellow mage and only a few centuries over him.
>He was a particularly dangerous adversary to the party because of his profession
>They didn't know and assumed he was just a lackey NPC, but they unfailingly and consistently treated him like shit any chance they got
>Openly making fun of him, making him do menial work or dangerous tasks, stealing things from him including food, even using him as a physical whipping boy and training dummy/target practice, and abandoned him more than once
>He always remains cheerful and loyal and supportive
>When the time comes and it's revealed his true nature and how he's supposed to defeat/kill and detain/bury them, he forgave them and let them go without trouble, because that's what friends do
>>44100652
The problem is that it is a trope.
Players, especially seasoned players expect it. I spent the better part of an Only War game with player who thought that any minute, high command was going to fuck them.
These were not people who knew the 40k universe very well and didnt bother to read fluff text in the books, but were beyond paranoid of any and all npcs that tried to help them.
>>44100652
The best part is when you have a group capable of keeping IC and OOC knowledge completely separated, because you can drop narrative hints that the ally is the bad guy without worrying about the party suddenly turning around and killing the dude for no real reason.
Then again, that's true of most plot devices in this thread: all of them have the potential to be genuinely good, but rarely are in a tabletop setting because most players are faggots.
>the NPC the DM saddled you with is actually a normal person with morals, and he tells the king about all the horrible shit the PCs are doing
>the PCs all get arrested and sentenced to public hanging
>All the major villains you've run up against over the course of the game are actually just the same guy wearing incredibly elaborate disguises aided by incredible acting ability and the diverse skillset of a polymath.
>>44099445
LOL le tricked you
>>44100719
This one's actually pretty funny, although I could definitely see it inducing rage in certain groups.
>>44100704
>implying it's always the players fault
No, Dave, you're still an awful GM
>>44100719
10/10 would run game
>>44100719
That goblin chief you stabbed at level 3? Whose blood made you stink so bad that the mayor's daughter ran away from you after you rescued her?
IT WAS ME BARRY. I WAS THE GOBLINS.
>>44101056
>>44099706
>somebody gets the hothead out of there
>one of the original players left a few sessions in
>his character was arrested and eventually went off on his own, troubled by his fate
>now I'm bringing him back in a powered-up form as a bad guy as he's given in to his fiendish patron's desires for him, to lead an invasion of the material plane by Hell
>also the other fiend warlock that died after he left is coming back reincarnated as his imp familiar
>the current party has no idea what's coming
>mfw
>>44101056
>>44099562
How did you enter their dreams? Are you a Drowzee?
>>44101464
>players sacrifice the paladin NPC who'd been helping them reach a devil in the desert
Can't wait to bring him back as a beefed up servant of Asmodeus.
>>44099911
>>44099994
>>44100094
Related storytime.
>>44100698
You can use that logic against almost narrative tool though. It's all been done before. You cannot find a single completely original idea in any work of fiction - it will exist somewhere else. Even the subversion of each trope has been done. And the subversion of the subversion. And so on.
What matters are the details behind it. Every story is original.
>>44101056
>That rat you shot when after your father taught you to shoot a bow and arrow? ME! ALL ME!
>The bully in high school who you finally punched? IT WAS ME AGAIN, BARRY!
>The Lovecraftian Horror that was summoned into the world that you could only destroy because you are the chosen one? ME AGAIN! THE PROSTHETICS COST A FORTUNE BUT IT WAS WORTH IT!
>>44101669
those links
someone doesn't know how to use a computer
>>44101757
Here is the problem.
I can run a haunted house a game. My players will not thing every house in the world they enter is haunted.
I run one npc that betrays them or is an undercover gent and they will never accept a npc into their midst again without me forcing them into it.
