If a Rust Monster shows up, is that the DM admitting that he fucked up when you got your gear?
>>44090706
>not wearing mail made out of stainless steel cutlery
>>44090706
Perhaps it means that you need to run away.
>>44090726
Stainless steel can still rust. It is just more resistant to it.
>>44090706
Means you should always carry a greatclub or have the wizard handle it
>>44090706
Or maybe it's a likely natural enemy to face in the kobold's iron mine.
If you've got some crazy good gear and have been breezing through minibosses and then suddenly a pack of rust monsters turn up, probably yeah.
If you're in a place where rust monsters would probably live, and have been doing decently with good gear, probably not.
>>44090726
Stainless still rusts.
And a creature that magically turns metal into rust is probably not playing by Phyisics's rulebook anyway.
>>44090706
Joke's on him, I play a blade pact warlock.
Our DM loves rust monsters.
That's why we alway ensure we have some kind of non-metal weapon with us.
It's also why a few times the plot has dictated we couldn't have non-metal weapons with us.
>>44090988
It's just like that time I banished a Nalfeshnee he intended to be a difficult boss on my first try.
I need to stop making my DM cry.
>>44090736
its what we did
A rust monster shows up when the DM needs to make the party afraid but is too bad at encounter-building to actually endanger them without TPKing instead.
Related question. Can a Rust Monster rust and eat non-ferrous metals? The monster manuals don't really specify, as they just say metal in general. Do they work on mithril, adamantine, and gold?
>>44090706
I'd just grab it and hopefully another. feed one aluminum and the other iron and catch the resulting dust. Now i'm whipping around thermite grenades and the DM has another reason to cry.
Fun fact: there is literally no problem that can't be solved with thermite.
>>44091391
>How does your character know how to make thermite? How does your character know what thermite even is, or what it does?
>>44091391
>Playing alchemist
>Riding a rust monster
>Chucking thermite grenades
I played an alchemist once. He was an insane assassin painter with craft in alchemy. He painted on his enemies with poisonous/acidic paints and melted through their ribcages/throaxes/whatever.
Party kept his "dangerous" paints in a locked chest when in towns.
>>44091513
>how does an alchemist know alchemy?
Does your alchemist just not do research? How else will he get those crazy half burned half bushy eyebrows?
>>44091521
Thats the fun bit. If my party thinks they're neutering me and making it "safe". They're just making me a bigger bomb.
>>44091722
You're not doing research though. You're metagaming. You're doing the "lawl I invent gunpowder!" thing. It's not clever or funny, you're just being a dick.
>>44091044
"If the DM uses a threatening monster that could kill the party he's a bad DM. If he uses a threatening monster that couldn't kill the party he's a bad DM."
So... what? No threatening encounters allowed?
>>44091791
>You're having fun the WRONG WAY, you dick!
Is Hans Goldschmidt your great-granduncle or something? Why do you cling to his legacy so?
>>44091845
>I'm being told something is dumb
Why can't I do things MY way? Why do you have to hold me back? YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD!
>>44091883
In what way is it dumb?
Why are you being triggered so hard?
>>44091791
You're telling me an alchemist worth his lead won't EVER mix 2 insanely common minerals together ever? He just mixes things others have and NEVER mixes togethet to insanely common elements to see what does what. He'll never find something that goes boom. Ever. Even though half the combination of the periodic table do that. He'll never see what oxides are or hold powdered anything over flame to see what it does even though thats how traditional alchemy works. Its almost like you think you can only ever cook prewritten recipes made by others but can't make your own dish.
>>44091916
What are the odds of discovering thermite? I'll let you roll that. Succeed, and you can learn that it exists.
>>44091916
He might have had an "experience" when players didn't wanna ride his rails so now anything he didn't preplan makes him angry.
>>44091937
That doesn't answer my question in any way, it just tells me you're a stubborn asshole who can't understand that other people have fun in different ways.
>>44091937
How many 2 piece combinations of elements are there? Times that by 3 for solid, powdered, and liquified, times that by 2 for melting over heat and melting with acid. Done. Again its like you assume any alchemist ever has never done these things even though its exactly what alchemists do.
>>44091973
Also minus the gases since we're talking solids here. Hell if he has half a brain he'd just do metals as its own group before branching into carbons and such.
>>44091845
>M-muh fun
Stop. You're not making thermite for fun. You're doing it so you can try to breeze through everything and get a stiffy because you got away with something stupid. You know it, I know it, everyone else knows it.
>>44092002
If there is an academy they graduated from this shit would be year one.
>>44091927
Except anybody trying to invent thermite or gunpowder is just being a metagamer. There is nothing 'fun' about that for anybody but the shit trying to do it.
And pure elemental aluminium is not 'insanely common' assuming it even exists in this fantasy world as an element.
>>44090706
Sometimes, you just want to fuck their PC's shit up. Rusty and Gelatinous cube where pretty much just staples of culling the herd
>>44092014
Its not even for fun at this point. You're a literal retard. Its one of the more simply mixtures you can make. Hell its basic chemistry something every alchemist would know. You wanna talk common sense an alchemist would be using the magical art of alchemy to improve this shit.
>>44092072
Hey, remember when the ancient Romans had tons of thermite? Or how about the Chinese, they used that shit all the time against the Mongols. And everyone and their mother had some thermite during the Renaissance, right?
Oh wait, none of that shit ever happened because it was discovered in 1893.
>>44092049
Aluminum is so common its in dirt. Serious just get some dirt from your yard right now and stir it in so nitric acid. Pour that shit through a strainer and keep the dust. You now have pure enough aluminum and some iron oxide as well for your thermite base. Get an iron ingot (they're fucking everywhere) scrap it down soak in brine let sit 5 mins scrap it down put it in brine, etc. let mixture sit in sun to dry. Combine and light. You're telling me an alchemist can somehow get magical reagents using gold and silver but fucking dirt and acid are out of the question?
>>44092072
>basic chemistry
Like the four elements? Most alchemists would be chasing after phlogiston for explosives, not conquering the periodic table.
>>44090706
No, it just means they felt like scaring you.
Now, if THIS thing shows up, you know he's doing some major damage control.
>>44092171
Oh no my perpetually medievil fantasyland has existed for several millenia but can't into progressions in chemistry even though theres an entire class and known others dedicated solely to it. Hell theres an academy in plenty of settings but oh no they can't make a single discovery because reasons.
Guns are a metal pipe with explosives right? Easy. And we know a clock maker, so we can make a clockwork cycler.
Why can't I just make a maxim or tommy gun?
>>44090706
You could always try to AVOID the fight
>>44092221
Nah man. The dm threw it at us for a reason right? I mean if he didn't want me killing it he wouldn't have put it in my way.
>>44092219
I hope you never study history because your mind will explode.
"HOW many academies and universities? Why aren't they discovering thermite? Where is Bakelite? This is fucking simple chemistry, INVENT IT. RETROACTIVELY."
>>44092219
Oh no I'm trying to equate modern science with medieval levels of knowledge and fucking fantasy magic because nobody approves of me being a metagaming fucktard hurf durf.
>>44091127
I would say yes.
>>44091513
>>44091391
More to the point, where the fuck are you getting aluminum? It's basically impossible to get aluminum out of bauxite, or even to know what you're looking for, without a pretty strong mastery of electricity, which opens up a whole other field of stuff you don't want in your D&D.
>BAWWWWWWWWW
>I rolled a 1 and the DM didn't let me reroll it!
>BAWWWWWWWWW
>I got in a fight with monsters and my character lost some HP!
>BAWWWWWWWWW
>I told the DM I wanted to win the game and he wouldn't let me!
>BAWWWWWWWWW
I fuckin' love rust monsters. Really liked how they connected them to the Rust Dragons from Planescape.
>>44090706
It's not so bad, the dust has the same value as the item it demolished, he just wants you to go back to a town soon.
>>44092219
> He's still trying to justify Thermite in the average high fantasy
>>44092072
>Its one of the more simply mixtures you can make.
Where you gonna get Alumnium from son? Or Boron? Or Titanium? Or Magnezium? You invented electrolysis on an industrial scale at somepoint in your adventure? And then invented bloom furnaces and high grade steel as a side note so you can get sufficiently unoxidised iron? Or what, you think you can just buy magnesium and throw it at some wrought iron and presto it'll react?
If, IF a D&D alchemist knew about oxidation states and IF a D&D alchemist knew about the periodic table and IF the Alchemist knew about thermite reactions then MAYBE the alchemist might be able to scrounge up, in a very large and heading towards rennaissance tech level city to scrounge from, *maybe* enough material for ONE (1), very small, thermite bomb, which would primarily operate as a touch spell that'd do a d10 or two of fire damage for one round before fizzling out.
>>44092277
When has the kind of person who would actually want to be allowed thermite in DnD ever given a shit about verisimilitude, setting tone or any of that nonsense.
>>44093081
That's the point. Anyone trying to justify that kind of bullshit is stupid, plain and simple.
>>44092184
>just grab your precious Aqua Fortis and pour it on some dirt
>assuming you even know what aluminium is
>in a medieval fantasy setting
>to make fucking Thermite, which is basically an overpriced Scroll of Fireball
Goddammit anon.
So a Wizard can be intelligent enough to discover the rigid mechanical secrets to cast spells that let him create pocket dimensions and stop time, but the Alchemist who already has a class feature based around throwing explosives can't discover thermite?
Check your "medieval" stasis privilege
>>44093901
Well, thermites aren't explosives. They don't use the same materials, they don't follow the same principles and, for the most part, they don't produce the same effects.
The comparison would be closer with a traditional Wizard trying to figure out Divine magic or wordspells.
>>44094109
Its chemistry. The alchemists class is based around chemistry and magical chemistry. the better comparison is a wizard learning an easier spell than the one they already know. Its easier because it doesn't actually require magic just components using knowledge you already have as its exactly what you do minus the hard bit.
>>44094491
>It's chemistry.
No it's not. It's alchemy.
>>44094614
Thermite is chemistry. Magical thermite is alchemy. its like basic and geometry in math, gotta know the former before you can understand the latter. saying he can't make thermite because its not alchemy is like saying you can't add 2 plus 2 because its not strictly geometry.
>>44094491
>using knowledge you already have
But that's the point, there's not particular reason for an alchemist to have that knowledge. Unless he's done extensive research on ignoble metals, at which point one has to wonder wtf he learned alchemy for.
>>44094717
>why learn algebrae 2 when you know algebrae 1
>why learn to sharpen a knife when you can buy a new one
>why learn a second language when you know your own
>>44094716
Yeah, so you're the guy that ask his surgeon about psychiatric matters.
>>44094834
Entirely different. Its more like the alchemist is a surgeon and thermite is a nurse deal. The surgeon had to take the same nursing classes as the nurses to be able to become a surgeon in the first place.
>>44094716
Again, you're applying real world logic to a fictional setting. You can't do that. It doesn't work.
Here, let me provide you with an example. In Forgotten Realms, there's everything you need to make gunpowder. All the materials, proper conditions, the whole shebang. And, theoretically, someone could figure out how to make it. It's just a combination of ingredients in the right ratios, right? Anybody could easily make themselves some gunpowder, right? Wrong. It doesn't work. Why? Gond, God of Invention (IIRC) says it doesn't. Physics and chemistry and all the modern science in the world can yell and scream and stamp their feet saying that by all rights gunpowder should be able to work in this world, but it doesn't. Because a god said no.
That's the kind of shit we're dealing with here.
>>44094884
No it's not. Thermites are inorganic chemistry. Explosives are organic chemistry. Alchemy is pseudo-religious study of natural science. And you are dumb asshole that assumes that known means obvious.
>Wizard can kill anything and everything in the game while doing the job of every single other class better than they can and nobody complains.
>Alchemist tries to get what is equivalent to hotter alchemical fire and everyone flips their shit.
>>44091391
>trying to use real-world physics on magical rust monster that can rust gold
yah, nah, ur a cunt m8i
>>44095162
Because the wizard isn't being a metagaming fucktard about it. Don't get me wrong, he's still being a fucktard, but it's a different breed of fucktard.
And it's not just hotter alchemist's fire either. Have you seen what thermite does to shit? I guarantee you if you treated it like a regular firebomb people would bitch and moan just as hard as if they couldn't make it at all.
>>44095224
>Wizards shoot magic out of their ass 24/7
>Figuring out what thermite is with a DC 30 alchemy roll is worse than death
>>44090706
>Rust-Monsters are larval Rust-Dragons.
>>44095256
>reading comprehension
>>don't get me wrong, he's still a fucktard, but it's a different breed of fucktard.
>>44095286
So it's meta gaming to say "I want use this lab and my alchemy skill to try and find a cheap and volatile material."
>>44095256
I'm not going to argue with you if you can't be assed to read. Besides, we're not talking about game balance here.
>>44090736
Incorrect. The correct answer is to kill it in a single turn with your offhand weaponry.
>>44091002
No biggie, amirite?
1/2
>>44095349
2/2
>>44090706
Next up, the magic - eating lizard for your wizard friends.
Or are you seriously going to exclusively gimp some of the already weakest classes in the game?
>>44095317
No.
Straight up just making thermite because you want to is. For all you know, the cheap and volatile material may not be thermite at all.
>>44095049
It's not even that, thermite makes no sense given even 17th century era alchemical concepts - you're taking two metals, both of which possess the qualities of Cold Dry, adding them together and getting a Sulfurous Hot reaction, and what's worse the reaction only takes place if you purify the metals by removing any possible Sulfurous or Hot materials from the metals before hand.
And where's the phlogiston coming from to produce the smoke? The air?!
>>44092199
>Chemistry majors in your /tg/
>not even once
>>44092069
How the fuck do you lose to a gelatinous cube?
>>44097567
Generally you walk into it
I wonder, given rust monsters can oxidize any metal could they in theory also be used to oxidize the hemoglobin in someone's blood supercharging their metabolism and removing the need to breathe?
>>44090706
My least favorite piece of 5e art.
Worse than the halflings.
>>44090706
Makes me glad I wear ceramic.
>>44097634
Carbon dioxide needs to be expelled though, otherwise it gets in the way of the process, and your lungs could only hold so much carbon dioxide before the concentration is too high for it to leave your blood into your lungs.
Ever since I read that one 3e book that described how Rust Monsters can be trained and how tame ones like to cuddle I've had a hard time fighting them. They're too cute.
I'm a computer engineering major.
I know how to, from scratch, make simple circuits. I know how this can be done with magic conceptually. My character has knowledge (engineering). Therefore I should be able to, give minimal effort, make a computer. It would take less than two years of effort to jump start the entire process.
Hell, my character IS a alchemist/tinkerer/something applicable after all. Any one worth his snuff should know this.
This is a similar argument to the thermite thing.
>>44093752
>Overpriced Scroll of Fireball
Fireballs won't melt through Adamantine anon.
>>44097774
true enough, guess installing a one way membrane in your lungs would be necessary for any long term use of rust monster breathing
and that's where we get into monster based post-humanism
>>44097802
Being that adamantine is a fictional substance there's no guarantee thermite will either.
>>44097567
Gelatinious cubes were generally used as 'gotcha's when players were leaving dungeons that they had already 'cleared' before 3.X.
When players with low level characters got cocky/distracted while withdrawing from dungeons through locations already cleared the point man of the party would run face first into a gelatinous cube, take 2 to 8 damage and get paralyzed and the rest of the party could follow if they were not paying attention.
>>44095191
Gold can already rust.
Fun fact, all metals can rust.
Some, like gold, are highly resistant to it. But they all can rust.
Simple answer to people trying thermite or gunpowder shenanigans. Tell them that the world doesn't fucking work the same way as reality.
The world is a flat disc, molecules do not exist, the elements refers to the earth,fire, air and water because the periodic table is wrong here. Stars are holes poked in the sky that open into the inferno raging beyond, fires don't start because of chemistry it's just a property of fire's elemental nature etc etc.
Gravity? What's that? Things fall down because that's just how the world is, everyone knows that you retard. Orbits don't real and your shitty attempt to make a black hole is dumb.
>>44099264
No it can't you retard. The conditions necessary to oxidise gold are vastly outside of what occur in nature.
>>44090706
I wanted it to be a surprise that the primary village the PCs would be working out of tamed rust monsters, but I warned them ahead of time to make sure they selected only non-metal equipment.
>>44092199
>DR 15/rust
>a metal weapon that strikes a rust monarch corrodes immediately
Well, fuck you too.
>>44092199
Do the heads of arrows count as metal weapons for purposes of the first rule?
You walk into the dungeon and this thing slaps your caster's ass, what do?
>>44090706
I threw a rusty at my PCs. They chewed it up and spat it out again. They don't afraid of anything.
>>44095258
So what would a half-Rust dragon look like?
>>44097835
Adamantine is meltable, otherwise it wouldn't be workable.
>>44102934
maybe it is only meltable once. Yes I know thats dumb but so is basically everything. something about cooling. or if you're less autistic, just because.
>>44103667
If there was any real-world sense to the thing it would be meltable until tempered in a certain way, at which point it would need a much, much higher temperature before it melted.
>>44101519
I keep it as a pet and call it George. It gives arcane protection so long as it's in my square, right?
>>44103712
well there you go. thats what I was getting at but I don't know enough about forging and metallurgy to say. Either way no matter what some player wants to make work because it would work in reality there is just as much and more reason it won't work in setting.
>>44092246
pff
that attitude usually causes the most player deaths
>>44102934
Maybe you need something special to melt it, like dragonbreath or a legit fire elemental.
>>44103804
>i want to breathe
"Lolnope sorry. Shit don't work that way here!"
>ok so jump down to the water below
"Hahano. Gravity doesn't exist remember? you float into the sky dumbass!"
>okay....i want to swim?
"Hahahs nice try! Water has no surface tension or cohesion you sink like a rock!"
>okay i swing my mace?
"Lolno. remember gravity not existing cause i said so? You just keep spinning forever now!"
>i cast the 3rd impact?
"Finally! Something i'll allow."
>>44104640
yes, but in that example you have a that DM instead of a that player.
>>44104671
I want to make a simple mixture of 2 metals and light it on fire. The fucking cleric wants to bring somebody back from the dead. Which is more outrageous?
>>44104687
>Giving the the plane of elemental fire ideas
Enjoy your thermite elementals
>>44104713
If i gotta spec into actual casting to whip around thermite elementals in a bottle i will.
>>44104687
in a setting where reanimation is already figured out it makes sense. the cleric knows already what to do and why.
the alchemist is working on what we in reality have already figured out, but his world has not. so he has to do all the work from the ground up. he has to discover every step of the process. but this point has been made multiple times in the thread already you are just ignoring it because you want to metagame and not feel like a cheater for not justifying your characters knowledge properly.
now if you actually spent ingame time researching and developing the tech I'm sure most DMs would have much less of a problem. But people already pointed that out as well, and if you tell me to show you where its because you refuse to read the thread.
>>44104687
The one that is blatant metagaming obviously.
Even wanting to do it makes you a bad player.
It really just seems like a matter of house rules. To argue that it shouldn't exist because "setting" is dumb, because did is basically just the most generic setting possible, that exists so players can do things like invent thermite or magic computers or shit like that. If a player decides to try and make one of those things and you allow it in your game, what's the problem? It's not like there is any semblance of historical or scientific consistency in DnD whatsoever. And is it really metagaming if the DM makes a point of keeping it from being to powerful?
>>44104811
>And is it really metagaming if the DM makes a point of keeping it from being to powerful?
Uh, yes. The power of what you do has literally no bearing on whether something is metagaming or not, chucklefuck. Even metagaming in a way that results in negative gain for the character is still metagaming.
>>44104786
well not exactly. wanting to do something is fine, its all about doing it without meta gaming, making sure it takes all the steps it needs. One of my favorite things to do in games is to bring fiat money and banking into a setting. I go adventuring, make a name for myself. amass wealth and clout in the kingdom. and then slowly bring banking into the world through its natural progression of nobles wanting to be able to access their wealth without bringing it with them by using credit. Which I justify by my character having a good enough reputation that wealthy people in other lands are willing to offer him their money in the short term because they believe he will pay them back. The process is natural and takes enough time and is complicated enough that it doesn't count as meta gaming. yeah I did it on purpose but If thats meta gaming then so is playing a wizard because you want to cast spells. I don't use any knowledge my character doesn't have.
As fucked up as rusting everyone's weapon and armor into nothing can be, I think I have a few alternatives that can put the players at a disadvantage without stripping them completely.
Magnetic effects can strip characters of their junk, you can encrust items with salt, stick them glue/sap/web or whatever.
I would also make Rust Monsters much bigger, and include metal-based creatures and humanoids maybe in their diet along with naturally found ore.
Maybe just combine a bulette with a rust monster?
>>44104826
>bad! Wrong fun having is wrong!
>>44104761
You wanna work on reading comprehension a bit or did you miss the part where i asked if your alchemist ever does RESEARCH. I'd take the monster because easy access to oxides in quantity is rare.
>>44104881
if you are at a table where everyone wants to invent modern technology for giggles then sure go for it. But more often than not people play a setting in big part for what kind of content they can expect. If they wanted to contend with modern tech they would play a setting with that already in it. so its a safe bet that some guy metagaming to have thermite or gunpowder or penicillin will not jive. And in that case yes it is bad wrong fun because you are fucking up the game for the rest of the table.
>>44104826
If it's in character, fits the setting, and is balanced it's still metagaming cos I dun like it :((
>>44104861
>Rust Monster Land Sharks
>>44104826
Here's the thing though, if you allow it the player will expect it to work 100% like it does irl. If you don't, they'll winge and complain. Trust me
>>44104929
that makes sense, and is a fine step on the path to developing the tech you want. But does your alchemist understand what oxidation actually is? Is that something we can assume from the setting? Or is the knowlage of the setting conflicting with that? its all about what is reasonable for a character to know.
"research" that makes no sense to even do, and is much more complicated than just mixing dust together and lighting it, is not something an alchemist does in an afternoon for fun. It is an involved process.
>>44104881
I'm going to introduce ballistics, finance, germ theory, chemistry and genetics into the setting.
It's cool though, I've got a ton of knowledge points.
The point is that metagaming disrupts the setting and play as a whole. It breaks the game.
You can have as much fun, of any kind you like. The only proviso is this;
>The fun you have must not disrupt the fun of others.
Simple isn't it? If the entire table is fine with you, by chance, discovering that if you mix one common and one incredibly difficult to produce metal, when entirely purified and ignited burns quickly and fiercely... then yeah. Cool. That's your game and I hope you all have a blast.
But you have to admit, it breaks immersion and would go against most other games. Saying it's a totally normal and fine thing to do is just wrong. It's a rare exception.
Yes, thermite could be discovered at a remarkably low tech level. But so could a great deal of things. Guns and cannons are simple. Black powder is simple. Gene theory is simple. Germ theory is simple. Heliocentric theory is simple. But only with metaknowledge or hindsight. It took us tens of thousands of years to clock onto the fact that a hot fire can melt shiny rocks. It took millenia again to realise poop in water makes you ill.
Thinking you can discover a chemical reaction from two metallic elements, without understanding both chemistry and elemental theory, along with not having the infrastructure to produce the two elements by CHANCE... It's unlikely, if nothing else.
>>44097358
I must admit, this was more interesting than the shitflinging.
>>44101519
Joltick!
>>44104640
It's not like people had not tried to justify how the world works before we knew of gravity. See the greeks, things go down because they have a lot of earth in it and earth is the lowest layer, flames go up because fire is the highest. You just take this as if it was literally true instead of a pre-scientific explanation.
"ha ha you fall upward forever" is still applying modern day knowledge with no understanding of how people think. And also being an asshole.
>>44101519
>All magic user party
Whelp, that's a TPK.
Just popping in to say that alchemy can and has led to discoveries of elements and useful substances, usually accidentally.
>>44106761
Gunpowder and general explosives were discovered through alchemy but we can't have those because thats "Wrong Fun" brand Fun.
>>44101519
All the casters run up to it and shocking grasp the living daylights out of it.
>>44097830
At this point, why not just get some shape-shifting magic to make your lungs have tiny rust monster antenna?
This whole thermite thing... Lol
>>44092184
You're an ignoramus.
Aluminum is so damn hard to process it was more precious than gold. Napoleon had the only aluminum dinnerware in existence at the time.
An economic method of extracting aluminum from aluminum oxide (via electrolysis) wasn't invented until the turn of the 20th century.
>>44107980
But anon, someone else already said you can mix other manufactured chemicals in large quantities with DIRT to get minute amounts of aluminum!
I mean, what alchemist worth their sodium wouldn't know of this horribly inefficient method and have the means to use it?!
Now I'm wondering if it would be profitable for a geomancer to found a mining company that makes heavy use of an "extract metal" spell.
Suddenly rare metals are not so rare, but maybe still prohibitively expensive for common use, depending on initial spell cost.
>>44091927
Aluminium wouldnt be common in almost any dnd setting. Too difficult to refine
>>44091937
Honestly really high. rust and aluminum. Rust is likely to be anywhere, and aluminum while definitely very rare, would probably be pretty heavily experimented on by alchemists.
Hell, I've accidentally created thermite in the workshop just because I wasn't paying attention and used a rusty file on a piece of aluminum and when a spark hit the settled dust I noticed little flares dancing through it.
>>44108373
But anon. Geomancy. Extract metal. Aluminum exists in all topsoil. Hell so does gold and silver. I suppose the spell costs would be initially prohibitive but selling rare minerals would pay for itself. Also i believe there are spells for electricity and acid which means batteries and generators should be possible. Hell theres monsters that emit electricity that we could use. Hire some people buy a nice warehouse. Get some copper and some steel. Bam thermite factory. Hell metal processing factory. Gimme a year and i'll have a monopoly on an industry i created. Maybe hire some PC's for industrial sabotage and espionage to keep it that way.
>>44099264
All metal can't rust you retard. The only metal that rusts is iron. Rust is the term for iron oxidization and only iron oxidization.
All metals can oxidize, only iron can rust.
>>44108460
>honestly really high
Considering we didn't for centuries, demonstratably not.
Discover aluminium. Discover smelting methods. Discover manufacturing methods. Discover purification methods. Combine. Set alight.
Go ahead. Do all that by chance. No metagaming knowledge. Look into one obscure mineral while trying to make explosives. Ignore flame crystals and pixie dust while experimenting. Discover the periodic table while you're at it. Disprove the current alchemicls theories entirely.
Fucking do that. All of it in one lifetime. While adventuring. By CHANCE.
GO FUCKING AHEAD.
You say you made it by accident? Because you have large quantities of aluminium. Because you don't have to source, smelt and purify. And you know it to be useful in large quantities.
Because even if you do manage to all all of the above by chance in experimentation, you also have to realise it's potential. And fucking then be able to source large quantities of aluminium.
Fuck you and all the other thermite makers. Even inventing gatling guns would make more sense. Gunslingers exist, tying a whole lot of guns together makes some sense which wouldn't require discovering the fundamental nature of inorganic chemistry.
To make thermite you must first invent the universe.
>>44091973
Assuming 100 fantasy elements, and an average number of 3 different ways of presenting any one element in a combination (gas/liquid/solid), that's (100*3)^2 combinations, or 90,000 I think.
Since you're trying to discover something that relies on even more discoveries (aluminum isn't a standard fantasy element at all), you're breaking completely new ground, and I'd say you only get a bonus factor of 2 or so based on previous scientific/alchemical knowledge.
So that'll be 1d45000 please, a roll of 1 or less succeeds.
>>44108809
Wizards spend their whole lives researching magic. I'm the great great grandson of the first alchemist who set out to make a better alchemists flame. Generations of trial and error and i've finally cracked the code. Coincidentally this means i also have a factory that can turn it out enmasse.
>>44108861
Too bad you haven't figured out an economical way to refine aluminum out of dirt yet. The cost of a thermite explosion vastly outstrips the cost of a scroll of fireball, and your factory goes bankrupt due to lack of demand and competing advertisements from magical guilds.
Better luck next generation.
>>44108934
Nah. We've been using
>>44108521
For year plus magic can do anything right? So why not make it make shit safe cause fuck explanations as we've established earlier. We've been turning out aluminum for lighter travel friendly cutlery and dinerware for years but who knew explosives. Hell the military contracts alone will help us expand over the other 12 continents!
>>44108980
Nah man, there's no geomancers advanced enough in this setting to refine aluminum out of dirt. You're gonna have to research it yourself, and that'll be another 1d45000
>>44108730
In a world where alchemy is real I don't see why not. given the abilities to magically summon materials, magically purify them, etc.
And really, is saying "I want thermite bombs for my magic chemistry character" more metagamey than saying "You can't have this thing you want because I say it's too unlikely"?
The actual situation is that an alchemist gets a firebomb better than alchemists fire, and it has a cool fluff for it that uses a tamed rust monster to make it. As a DM it's infinitely better to give the player what they want within reason, rather than refuse anything you don't like because "reasons". The player wants thermite? Okay, it's like alchemical fire except it does more damage, costs more to make, and can't be put out with water. Now your player has a fun new weapon that isn't just a +3 sword. If it bothers you that much then don't call it thermite, call it "greater alchemists fire" or something. Telling the player he's not allowed to have ideas is a quick way to remove any fun from a game. If you give him thermite but make it balanced he can't argue. If you refuse thermite then you're just being lazy.
It's better as a DM to control HOW things work in order to fit them into the narrative, rather than ban and remove anything you don't like. Who cares if thermite would be an unlikely invention, it's a fun alternative to standard "you found a magic sword" power ups.
>>44107980
But Alchemy and muh fun!
>literally the argument of this thread
>>44109021
Nah we'll just convert mages over as batteries and invent industrialized mining, electric furnaces and all other manners of fun things. Now i'm a global super power making and manufacturing explosives, ammunition, guns, and armors, along with more "household" friendly uses such as metal cookware and silverware that has copper infused to keep bacteria away. Now the life spans increased and we need wars more than ever and people are at my door throwing me money.
>>44109035
In a world where alchemy is real, the laws of physics are likely vastly different enough that thermite reactions may not even be possible.
As the DM, I don't feel like getting a degree in chemistry to make my magical fantasy setting work with modern science. I feel like engaging in some cooperative theater with the players in a relaxing manner. You call it lazy, I call it sanity.
>>44109080
That's interesting anon, but I'm not sure your, uh, how did you describe it, "john galt meets bruce wayne meets nicolas cage's Lord of War" character would really go along with this whole investigate the cow thief plot I pitched the campaign as. so I'm going to go ahead and deny your character. Try to pick something more suitable up!
>>44109035
>And really, is saying "I want thermite bombs for my magic chemistry character" more metagamey than saying "You can't have this thing you want because I say it's too unlikely"?
yes
>>44109074
If you want to burn shit, make alchemist's fire. If you want to explode shit, be a wizard. If you want to masturbate with the idea of bringing 21st knowledge to the middle ages, write a novel or something.
The discovery of thermite should be something set into the setting from the outset. New chemistry sweeps the land. It should be huge. Not something your character just does one day.
>>44108861
I mean yeah if your DM lets you go into character creation giving yourself such a boon.
>>44109164
>>44109035
>>44109021
>>44108934
>>44108861
>>44108809
>>44108730
>>44108521
>>44108460
>>44108373
>>44108338
>>44108280
>>44107980
>>44093752
>>44092356
>>44092277
>>44092184
>>44091521
>>44091391
But alluminum exists in D&D everyone. Everyone knows it just goes by its fantasy name, which is Mithril. Thats why the dwarves hoard it. That and sulphur for their explosives.
>2015
>Not knowing alluminum is Mithril
>>44109152
Again, then you don't have to call it thermite. Or call it thermite but say it works because magic. the whole point is that you DON'T need a degree in chemistry. You say cooperative theater, but you sound like the guy that goes to improv and gets pissy when anyone but you has an idea. Cooperative theater is about cooperating, not crushing any idea that isn't yours.
The other guy you responded to is dumb though. Trying to get overpowered using modern tech is metagamey. Fluffing new loot as something recognizable isn't. You'd never be arguing this hard if instead of thermite it was called "triple distilled alchemist's fire" or something.
>>44109164
Why? He wants an upgrade to his bomb. Do you bitch when the fighter wants a better sword? "You think you're just going to find a magic sword? That would never happen in real life". If the player demands to have thermite and demands that it do a million damage then fuck that player. But if the player has an idea to upgrade his bombs and maybe get a new utility feature why is it metagamey. If it bothers you that fucking much that making thermite is unlikely then just call it something else.
>>44090706
As a DM, if I'm throwing a Rust Monster at you, it's probably part of some tactical puzzle or something. Rust Monsters are a bit odd to just have out and about for no real reason.
Last time I used 'em was as some warlord's pets. The party's goal became to bait the rust monsters into his armory and just fuck his chances of winning a fight (fair or otherwise) straight to hell.He had levels in monk and a couple of okay casters in employ so that he wouldn't be a walkover.
>>44109326
Well shit. Now i can just exchange the minerals i mine for their already mined mithril.
Aren't rust monsters unaggressive? Don't think I ever had one attack before
>>44091391
>You consider yourself smart and am the best for discovering thermite.
>Proudly, you whip you homemade test thermite into grenades and get ready to use them.
>Next fight you go into, you throw a thermite grenade.
>Enemies respond with 5 of their own thermite grenades.
>What, you think you were the first alchemist to think of mixing two common things together?
>>44109340
Oh, I'd be willing to work with the guy and increase his explosiveness. I just wouldn't be willing to say his scheme to harvest rust monsters for it necessarily works.
The overall goal (+1 to explodey) is fine, it's just the asinine "science says it should be this way so make it this way in a fantasy setting DM" that I take issue with.
>>44091927
>>44091722
>>44092184
>But it's so easy!
OK, you get what you want. But so does everyone else. The King's Guard is now chucking thermite grenades at your dumb ass, and lighting you up with flamethrowers and machineguns. Except they're all better than what you have, because they actually have an industrial basis producing these things for them, while you're knocking them out by a roadside campfire.
Speaking of that, you're now conscripted into the army, and expected to roll a 1d20 every day you spend in the trenches to see if your catch one of the magical artillery shells the enemy keeps lobbing at your side. After a few weeks of this, you get to go over the top, where more random rolls determine whether your character lives or dies, then you finally get into the fun hand-to-hand fighting and try to secure the enemy trench. But the DM invariably throws MORE artillery, machinegun fire, and waves of enemies at you. And even if you do keep the trench, you now get to take the fallback trench with your withered numbers, injuries, and fatigue. Which invariably fails, and you go back to your own trench. Then it's back to random rolling for artillery, and after a few rounds of that, you get to do the entire thing all over again. Fun!
You win when you lose and arm or leg, and get to go home.
>>44109501
So players are not allowed to have ideas of their own, and only YOUR idea of fun is permitted. And yeah, when players try to force things to work or cheat their way to power and riches because "it works in the real world" then that should be stopped, those are just metagamey powerplaying douchebags. but you're going way past that. Taming a rust monster isn't easy, acquiring aluminum wouldn't be easy, and nobody is saying that thermite has to be mechanically superpowerful. It's not exploity, but it IS your player getting interested and involved in the game.
But instead of players having their own ideas and trying to accomplish things you're saying your plan is to tell them "No, none of your ideas work and you can't do anything you wanted, but here's this +1 bomb, that's what you wanted anyways but this way it's MY idea and you didn't have any agency".
What a shitty DM. If you don't want people to interact with your setting then write a book don't run a game.
>>44108861
>You return to your factory one morning to find it burned to the ground by thermite bombs.
>The shadowy league of alchemists who already mastered thermite decades ago burned it down to keep it from being useable by anyone but them.
>>44101519
oh man. I want to through a mix of these and rustmonsters at a party now. That way they can all be each other's heroes.
>>44091927
How it was presented was as one guy suddenly knowing that with iron and aluminum dust you get thermite out of nowhere. Not trying a number of experiments to figure out what stuff is good to mix or bad to mix.
>>44109491
Well shit i'll just make bigger grenades and have the warrior or barb throw it. Have the wizard set it off with his own kaboomboom. Synergy!
>>44109750
>You now entered into a magical explosives arms race with a group who has been doing this for at least a couple decades longer than you have.
I'd play it
>>44109654
Shit. They should have burned me down. Off to my other factory cause i'm a global power. I'll just shore up security a few hundred times.
>>44109781
Literally an arms race with people competing to have the biggest arms to carry bigger grenades.
>>44109791
>Level 1 Alchemist
>Global superpower
Sure bud.
>>44109803
>The Shadow Alchemist group hires a squad of Wizards to create a specialized form of Enlarge Person
>Enlarge Arms.
>>44109791
Wait... How did you become a global power while the already existing global power bombed your factories as you set up?
Shit doesn't make sense yo.
>>44109781
Right?
>>44109650
>but it IS your player getting interested and involved in the game.
I'd bet my left nut that they'd scream "THAT DM" the moment they discovered that farming rust monsters and acquiring rare metals is next to impossible. Because these ideas never come from well-balanced, interested players. They come from munchkins who think they're smart when they're really not. And like munchkins, they will see a more reasonable approach to their get-rich-quick scheme as the DM shutting them down.
And honestly, at this point it gets so involved that doing this shit would take over a huge chunk of the campaign, unless you do it in a behind the scenes kind of way. And then, yeah, it might actually be fun to have an Alchemist who farms Rust Monsters for his own bordering on useless side project. But it's not going to be that way. It's going to be a That Guy pissed off that his idea isn't the magic bullet he thinks it is.
I mean, did the original poster of this bullshit say anything about how fun the side-project would be? or did he just insinuate that he'd be chucking OP grenades everywhere? There you have your answer.
>What a shitty DM.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, what a shitty DM, for not wanting some faggot to hijack his entire game for metagaming reasons.
>>44109650
I'm completely fine with players having ideas of their own.
But a player who is using real world knowledge to identify an exploit in the monster manual when combined with real life physics (and not fantasy physics) and to try to produce thermite is by definition exploiting the game.
You can call me a that DM, but you've already demonstrated a failure to grasp words (the sheer amount of double think to get around *this* exploit being an exploit, but still saying other exploits are bad), so I won't take it personally.
>>44109826
Nah. Dude said "factory" not "factories" i got plenty of mineral processing plants that can be converted over.
>>44109822
Did you forget the whole i'm just the heir bit?
>>44109882
>i got plenty of mineral processing plants that can be converted over.
Good luck converting those chunks of thermite melted slag into anything workable.
>Did you forget the whole i'm just the heir bit?
I never allowed that part of your backstory. But now that it's all burned to slag, you have a reason to go adventuring and stop trying to hold the game up with your dumb unrelated shit.
>>44109882
Anon, I don't think you get it.
All five of the other players made characters that knew each other growing up in a small village. Your character with his "heir to vast fortunes and alchemical/financial genius at level 1" backstory just doesn't mesh with the other players, or my campaign. rejected.
I'm worried you're trying to overshadow the other players, so if you don't come up with a better character next time, I'm just going to drop you from this campaign.
Also, great idea though, I'm totally stealing it for my DMPC.
>>44090726
>wearing mail made of spoons and forks
>>44109791
>Nu-uh, you didn't hit me, I dodged
When your argument gets kindergarden-tier no u, I think it's time to let go.
![[Laughter Stops].png](https://i.imgur.com/LcrWQj2.png "[Laughter Stops].png")
>>44109928
You were almost reasonable (even if a bit condescending) until the last line.
Are there actually people that steal PC ideas and use them as DMPCs? That's like tracing somebody's picture and then trying to sell it to the original artist.
>>44109882
>Did you forget the whole i'm just the heir bit?
Well, heir to a pile of rubble now. Better get adventuring so you can rebuild.
Also, the alchemists still hate you, so they're supplying literally all of your enemies with thermite grenades. Thanks for the idea by the way.
>>44109975I don't know, I just wanted to subtly raise the point that if this character was a DMPC, it'd be a rage worthy /tg/ story.
>>44109326
> Blowing up valuable Mithril instead of using magic, or acid, or anything else
I mean, I suppose you COULD do that. But everyone would think you're a fucking moron.
> I'll use it for the BBEG!
BBEG has protection from fire. Your move.
Shit dude. I mean, I know you want to show off just how much of a cleverdick you are like you could TOTALLY have been someone IRL if you had been born earlier with prior fucking knowledge of something (as opposed to inventing something like thermite today) but honestly this is a particularly bad example.
200 years in the future, some clever dick just like yourself is bitching that his GM won't let his character build stable wormholes, even though the materials are totally possible to get and the basic theory is relatively simple.
So if you really want to fucking impress, bust out one of those wormholes for us. You faux intellectual dipshit.
>>44109975
Its a dm's "last laugh" usually because they can't actually think of a decent insult before rejecting someone. Its like they think people patent make believe ideas or something.
>>44110016
>>44109326
Sorry, most of the second part of the rant is about people who feel entitled to "invent" new shit into settings to break games, not about you particularly. Your post about Aluminium being Mithril was spot on and fairly neutral.
>>44109882
>"Holy shit Dave, stop, we just stopped into town to ask for directions to the Skeleton King's lair, not sit and watch you argue about thermite for 20 fucking minutes."
>party shivs the alchemist the second they're out of sight of the town.
>>44110195
I made an rp opportunity gold mine. You guys squandered it.
>>44110358
>"You're just wasting time on dumb shit."
>"Roleplay-wise, our characters would want you dead because literally all you've contributed was getting a group with extremely deadly weapons wanting us killed."
>>44110358
>stall the game for half an hour because you want your character to suddenly know how to make something he has no way of knowing how to build.
>Muh gold mine gaiz xD
>>44108460
Workshop Spirits at it again, eh Grognard the Smith?
>>44108460
>a spark ignites thermite
Nigger, for someone going on about muh realism, you sure as hell didn't pay a lot of attention during chemistry.
>>44110907
What the fuck are you talking about? A spark of intense flame could cause thermite to combust.
>>44110969
A spark of metal burning at very high temperatures, yes. Not some random-ass spark. All of this is still trying to excuse meta-gaming. I mean, you just "accidentally" create thermite, leave it lying around next to your forge, and notice the minimal reaction while you're smithing metal?
Yeah, that's metagaming.
>>44110969
The only thermite he knows is the coarse grade kind that needs magnesium strips to light.
The finer the powder the less heat and duration of exposure needed. Using a rusty fine file on aluminum would definitely make a small easily lit batch.
>>44111008
He's the kind of guy who'd argue that not using leaches to cure yourself is "just common sense".
>>44090736
Except it moves much faster than you.
>>44092072
>The thermite (thermit) reaction was discovered in 1893 and patented in 1895 by German chemist Hans Goldschmidt.
>1893
Who else here kinda wants a pet rust monster in a game? Seems like it'd be a mean sort of fun.
>>44108730
Why wouldn't aluminum be common in a setting where peeps can shit out lightning?
>>44111852
Misapplication of lightning, mostly. Really, the issue is that you need a lot of things to line up, either happy accidents or experimentation to see if things change under different stimuli with someone with way too much money and time on their hands, and accept that alchemy predates what you know of chemistry. So, rather than act in haste, if you really want it, do lots and lots of experiments and be the guy who revolutionizes alchemy IG. Seek new formulas, and try everything you can imagine.
>>44101052
But, isn't that good? Rust is what penetrates the DR. DR/Magic is DR that's penetrated by magic.
>>44112882
Yes and no. Yes because it lets you easily bypass the DR, no because you have to use the weapons you don't want rusted into useless piles of scrap to do it.
>>44111852
"lightning bolt" spell descriptions describe the lightning bolt as being able to "melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze."
For reference Aluminum has a melting point of 660C while copper has a melting point just above 1000C - so you'd have to build the electrolytic process out of something iron based... which would then aggressively react with the aluminium produced to create a thermite reaction that would burn a whole in the production equipment.
There's also the issue that as a lightning bolt only contains 1.21 gigawatts (or 1.21 megajoules per second) of energy, and a modern electrically efficient aluminium plant needs on the order of 58 megajoules/kg of aluminium your average wizard would be able to produce only around about 74 grams of aluminium per day, assuming they are a level 11 wizard whose 4 level 3 spell slots are all used for lightning spells.
At minimum, obviously you'd have to store the lightning bolts in huge and inefficient lieden jar batteries so you would probably be looking at quantities more in line with between 1-10 grams of aluminium per week.
then remember you need 2 moles of Al for ever mole of Fe(III), so you really are gonna have .5-5grams of thermite per week, which will give you maybe a few seconds of burn time.
>>44114526
Not Captain Thermite, but what about a sorceror or warmage specializing in electric attacks? Either of those could possibly help increase average output. Because now I am beginning to imagine some mad alchemist who is seized with the inspiration to try and shift materials to mithral, similar to how a common idea for historical alchemists was trying to make lead into gold.
>>44115954
...assuming of course that mithril isn't just aluminium, which I've seen arguements for.
>>44116104
Way I see it, they would either be close enough to mistake one for another or mithral is what they named aluminum. Either way, can you really argue with using the idea of seeking a superior metal to sell to smiths and make a fortune as motive for an adventuring alchemist?
>>44116262
Also to clarify, this would be the sort of thing I constantly would work for on the side and pour a lot of personal funds into, since if it ever worked it would likely let my character be set for life with either a job with nobles where he gives them enough mithral to outfit their armies and make exotic jewelry, or maybe contracts with the mobs (aka thieves' guilds) of a few city states.
>>44116262
Alchemy isn't chemistry. In alchemy, metals are formed when light from the celestial bodies interacts with the element of earth in the ground-- in alchemy, sunlight literally makes gold grow in the rock. Silver harms werewolves because it is created by moonlight. If aluminum or mithril even exist in an alchemical setting, they would be the product of similar interactions with some kind of magical force or celestial emanation.
>>44094716
>saying he can't make thermite because its not alchemy is like saying you can't add 2 plus 2 because its not strictly geometry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_geometry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_arithmetic_and_Diophantine_geometry
>>44116531
Well yeah. The steel of the winds, granted by the might of storms, a metal born of union of the primal forces of air and earth. Sounds like the sort of thing an alchemist might think of, or consider trying, doesn't it? Which, if we assume that he keeps trying new methods to test his theory, may yield results, which would tie into chemistry as well. I know it may not work, but believe me when I say I would be respectful of fluff every step of the way, and try a plethora of things that, ooc, I know should fail. The character would learn, and over time, maybe one day succeed when he finally tries the right things.
>>44090706
>not wearing enchanted leather armor
>not beating a giant bug to death with a stick
Nah.
>>44114526
>assuming they are a level 11 wizard whose 4 level 3 spell slots are all used for lightning spells.
What if they employed metamagic feats to fill their higher slots with bolts as well?
How much does Intensifying or Maximizing a bolt change the wattage?
>>44101271
Probably, yes.
>>44117022
>What if they employed metamagic feats to fill their higher slots with bolts as well?
They now have 10 lightning spells at level 11, so you now have 180~ grams of aluminium per week to play with.
>How much does Intensifying or Maximizing a bolt change the wattage?
Eh, Intensifying won't work on any spell above level 2, as it makes the intensified spell needs a spell slot 7 levels greater than it usually is.
Maximised Lightning (which now needs a level 6 spell slot) is similarly a problem (but I was assuming 1.21gigajoules = 60 damage anyway, as I refuse to accept that you can power a time machine with less than a full maxed out damage roll of 10d6)
>>44114526
It's called a Leiden Jar, or Leyden Jar, according to archaic spelling. After the city of Leiden.
Otherwise, impressive post.
>itt that DMs fighting imaginary that guys out of a strong necessity of destroying any possible fun that could be had
>>44117924
>captain thermite returns to green text after he gets called a retard.
>>44117924
Thermite's only really useful for underwater welding tho, I question the existence of fun in this scenario.
>>44117961
>"I can't be possibly be told that I'm wrong by more than one people!"
>>44117536
Still kind of curious why you are using a wizard in this scenario. While a wizard has the best utility, it would perhaps be more time efficient to use a specialist in this scenario, and as such a sorceror with a penchant for lightning might be a better choice due to a greater spell pool per level.
>>44117924
>Metagaming retard continues to justify being a shitbird with "m-muh fun"
Fuck's sake. Captain Thermite, why even go through the trouble of mixing it if you are so adamant you know how to make some? Why not just go to a party wizard and ask them to use a Create or Fabricate spell? Then you get shit loads of thermite for all the shit you clearly think you would do with it.
>>44092184
That's not how you make aluminium. I don't think there's any mechanism for producing it without electrolysis, either directly or to produce alkali metals to reduce it.
In fact nitric acid is an oxidizing agent, and at best might react with some of the aluminium salts to produce soluble salts, but it won't produce aluminium itself.
>>44097358
Best post in the thread
>>44108373
Aluminum is mithril, this has already been settled
>>44124153
no thats speculation.
>>44124277
Regardless, it shares traits, such as, from what we can gather in crunch, equivalent durability and weight, so if you could find a way to refine aluminum, even if it wasn't mithril, it could still be useful for lighter weight but still durable gear.
>>44124667
yeah thats fine. again you would have to acquire enough of it. But aluminum is not mithril because aluminum is aluminum and mithril is mithril. if you let one be the other then thermite fag will come back.
>>44109953
>not being prepared for battle and dinner at the same time
>>44109635
This isn't WH40K
>>44124716
Just saying, you never really know what the true origin of mithril really is, if it has any groundings in reality or not. But enough on that. Although...well, while we're on aluminum production anyway, shocking weaponry might be useful. Or really, all the elemental enchantments for weapons could be for experimentation, seeing as an alchemist would probably really appreciate a consistently reusable heat source, the ability to freeze and store things, electricity to mess with, and plenty of acid. Probably would also greatly appreciate a decanter of endless water while we're on that topic.
>>44117924
>I only have fun when I make games about me and my wrong ideas about science
>>44124153
This is a stupid meme.
>nothing fantastic can exist in my fantasy game!
>Everything must be explained in 21st century science terms
STEM people shouldn't be allowed near anything that is based on imaginationand fun.
>>44124667
Except you know, mithril is vastly superior to aluminium, if Frodo had mail of aluminium he would be dead.
>>44109464
They're not so much aggressive as they're attracted to the twelve-course banquet you call weapons and armor.
>>44120061
You can train a wizard, so an alchemist could reasonably buy an orphan and have them trained in wizardy and use that wizard orphan to power their aluminium factory - sorcerors are much rarer.
It's basically a matter of practicality.
>>44090706
If a tarrasque show up, is that the DM admitting that he fucked up when you made your characters?
>>44126323
That would admittedly take decades, though.
>>44127913
I'm willing to add as my "great"'s before "grandfather" as it takes for me to inherit a properly setup factory full of workers.
>>44128008
Won't mean shit Captain Thermite. Seriously, though, would you let anyone have a production facility for the sole purpose of pissing on anything you do as a pc? I mean, I have allowed heir potentials in games before, but come on. You have to either show accomplishment in game to have proper claim among your rival kin, or have lost it all and try to reclaim your position, or be a delusional bastard who is trying to lay claim to something they aren't related to, otherwise you're just being a jackass trying to start with things you should never have had access to in the first place at level 1. Not to mention the lack of industrial design in general most places have, as the mindset isn't there-there aren't factories churning stuff out yet, or the industrial process yet in most settings where this would be relevant, save Eberron, because in general the local economy is more devoted to feeding one's family or territory and craftsman with individual wares. This is because in normal fantasy, trade in bulk would be difficult due to distance, quantity, and dangers, considering there are actually marauding monsters tearing about potential trade routes and territory for growing food to keep everyone alive, such as the rust monsters. So the whole thing would still not be either fitting or anything more than a flimsy attempt at power from how you have it.
>>44128008
And I'm willing to add a few more "Shut the fuck up, and get out of my house you retard"s in until the idea sinks into your stupid thick skull.
>>44128622
That's the thing.
Justifications and arguments aside anybody who wants to go and force modern science into settings that are designed to lack them is a shitty player or just dumb.
>>44128845
What if their goal is to start a new renaissance with tools that can let mere men do the work it would take a mage to do otherwise, which they never would? Just saying, a mad alchemist/artificer constantly trying to invent better tools for every trade would make sense, since quality of life would then likely go up. Like, to use Pratchett for a moment, the clacks system, which allowed quick conveyance of information across the country and act as potential watch towers easily. More in line with a telegraph maybe, but it still would be revolutionary to communications for a region.
Hey guys, I have some issues with my DM. He railroaded me pretty hard the other day.
See, there was this BBEG, who was taking over the country, and he had some pretty nifty magic armor that made him almost impervious to normal attacks.
Well, I wasn't having that, so I decided to use some spell slots to generate Uranium, and the other components necessary to make a nuclear bomb. I then armed it and teleported it into the BBEG's lair.
All the while, my DM was asking me how my character would know how to do it, telling me uranium hasn't been discovered in this setting yet, nor had nuclear reactions, etc.
I just told him my character comes from a long line of theoretical physicists, and politely asked him to stop railroading me.
He wouldn't let me go, so the campaign session just stopped there. Next session I need some arguments to make him see reason. Just waiting for him to tell me when/where to show up for the next session.
Any suggestions?
>>44129289
Have you tried slapping him? Also tell him railroading's terrible and player agency is a key part of any players fun.
>>44129289
You know how there are naturally occuring nuclear reactors out there, like in africa and shit?
You come from an area with naturally occuring nuclear bombs, like there's abnormal clumps of highly concentrated and purified uraniaum in the earth and also lots of naturally occuring explosive material surrounding each of these clumps, so anytime there's a lightning storm in the area the area gains new lake or two as the natural nukes explode.
And it is from growing up in this region that you know of both the existence of uranium AND how to make atom bombs.
