What does /tg/ think of spellswords/gishes?
I like it, although my preferred flavour is weaboo fightan magic.
>>44083553
Why's it always gotta be a spellsword?
Why can't it ever be a runespear, or a hexaxe, or a witchhammer?
>>44083717
but it can?
spellsword is just a generalization.
I'm a fan of the concept at least some of the time. I like the idea of someone who has only a minor understanding of magic (relatively to a full blown wizard at least) still being able to use what they know to improve how they fight with mundane weapons to get an edge
>>44083717
>Mysticmace
>Cantripcrossbow
>Ritualrapier
>Siegesorcerer
>Cudgelconjurer
>Flailchanter
>Fistwizard
>Fightomancer
>Oracle of a Thousand Shields Lashed to your Mortal Form
>>44083553
Is sword used as an euphemism for penis in this case?
>>44083553
Love the concept, but most systems just treat them as a a little spell, a little sword, but much less useful than either, due to a lack of synergy.
I want to see them as their own archetype that can actually use spell and sword in unison, rather than alternatives.
Elves are naturally spellswords.
Or arcane archers.
>>44083947
I'm surprised you missed that one.
My favorite character I've ever played was a spellsword. It's just too much fun to be able to approach any situation as you would a martial class, but able to use spells when you need to.
>>44084603
Pathfinder Magus actually does a very good job of this. You get an ability to cast a spell and make a full attack in one round, and whenever you cast a touch spell you can deliver it through your weapon attack instead of a touch (you have to hit normal AC instead of touch, but you get you weapon's damage and Strength as well).
>>44084045
Si Mai Wang, the multiclass Magus/Monk.
Remember kids, Monk unarmed strikes can be made with ANY body part.
>>44085069
That's not synergy. That's just shoehorning two actions into one.
Also, this being PF, full casters are still vastly superior.
>>44085124
Feel free to explain what you mean by "synergy", then, if literally using spell and sword in unison (as put forth by the comment I replied to) doesn't cut it.
>>44083553
Fine with the concept, hate the term "gish" and anyone who uses it.
>>44083717
>hexaxe
>witchhammer
You just gave me an erection I didn't know I could have.
>>44085889
Why? I had no idea what it actually meant/originated from until I just looked it up, wondering why it would cause such a sharp response.
>>44083553
"Spellsword" is absolutely my favorite archetype. I can be satisfied enough by preternatural martial ability, but something like the Adepts from Shadowrun is superior. There was a PSX JRPG I played with sentient swords that let you use magic--that's battle screens looked almost like old Tales games--that made me fall in love with idea, but I've never really found an implementation that was totally fulfilling.
>>44083947
>Hexen Kreiger
Just adding to the list for prosperity. Save me from my drunk selve.
>>44086075
You mean Tales of Destiny?
>>44086128
Maybe? I honestly can't remember. I only know it was like a Tales game because I played Tales of Phantasia and it was similar, but I don't think there was any movement. It was like Tales side-view but Final Fantasy turn-based.
>>44085155
My favorite example would be 4e's Swordmage.
By combining spell and sword, the class arrives at something distinct: a close-range fighter who teleports all over the place while harrying their chosen opponent with their Aegis.
Where the Swordmage presents a fusion of spell and sword, the Magus is more a case of spell and sword haphazardly stuck together with duct tape.
>>44086119
That does not conform to the "weapon + magic" nomenclature and it would have to be "Hexenkrieger" anyway.
I love spellswords and battlemages and all that. My only beef with 5e is that there isn't quite a class similar to a duskblade or a magus yet, so I can't really satisfy that magic warrior itch yet. Sure there's eldritch knight and valor bard and all that, but no channeling lightning through your sword quite yet.
>>44086748
And there probably wont be. At best, we might get a bunch of spells that trigger off hitting with a melee attack, similar to the Paladin smite spells or the SCAG cantrips.
>>44083553
Makes sense. I doubt many warriors are *entirely* devoid of magic. They'll pick up simple, everyday minor cantrips over time. World's saturated with magic after all. Charm to help keep their weapon sharp, remove rust, remain calm under pressure. Flavour stuff.
Rangers are a good example. Bows, blades, sure. But they back that up with magic because it's there, it helps, so they use it.
>>44086634
Actually, I'd go with Swordmage being a Synthesis, and Magus being a Fusion.
Synthesis arises from a thesis existing, which creates an antithesis. In this case swordsman and wizard. Synthesis is the combining of the two to create something new, in this case swordmage.
Magus is literally squishing the two together, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Magus are wizards with swordplay or swordsmen with magic. Swordmages are their own thing that requires both swords and magic.
>>44083553
A great way to justify individuals and races that aren't particularly physically imposing, or wealthy, being dangerous warriors.
I often, if Im statting them, give my nobles a few levels in a gish. I wouldn't go for wizards in any but rare cases but a gish is more easily justified and lets me describe them as I please but still have them lay a smack down if needed and not have it be bullshit.
>>44088095
>and there probably wont be
They already introduced a new class in UA and used one just for more ranger options. The possibility of a swordmage subclass or even full class is far from out of the question.
>>44083717
>witchhammer
silly anon, that's what you use *against* witches
>>44088214
The Mystic was introduced to serve as the catch-all class for the Psionics system in 5e, and even that only happened because psionics being separate from magic is a sacred cow. The UA for the ranger variant wasn't a new class, it was meant to replace the base ranger.
>>44088240
>Malleus Maleficarum
>Hammer of the Applemakers
>>44088255
apples were like super illegal in the dung ages, didn't you know
>>44088240
Maybe a witchhammer is also one who wields foul witchcraft against it's owners? Forging their hammer with a witches' charm/heart/magic inside.
>>44088255
>strawmans
>good luck on your travel, goalposts
You haven't even read the fucking UA for the ranger, it explicitly states the intent isn't to replace the ranger from the vanilla PHB and even if the option is extremely popular that the vanilla ranger is going to be treated as the standard and the UA option is just that--an option.
Regardless, they've already added a full class and options for others in just UA (discounting the additional options added in larger splats), so your bullshit of "probably won't" has no legs to stand on.
>>44088286
shit man, that sounds metal as fuck. I love it
>>44088301
It's the ultimate "FUCK YOU" to witches, as the hammer shatters magical defenses and imparts a degree of magical protection with the magic running wild over the wielder.
At the same time.. it's a fucking witchcraft hammer. It leaks corruption. People don't want to know you, and when they don't need you other witchhunters don't want to know you.
Use it too long of course.. and things will happen. Bad things.
>>44088293
Not the anon you're arguing with, but how was that strawmanning?
>>44088152
That's arguing semantics, arguably.
My point is then that too many systems offer fusions, which I find very dissatifying, as opposed to syntheses.
>>44088316
Because they said that there probably won't be additional classes or options added for a swordmage.
I countered that idea by showing that they've already added additional classes and class options in splats, so there's no reason to believe swordmage won't become a thing in 5e.
They then tried to counter that by arguing that the classes and options which were added weren't very good, which has literally nothing to do with whether or not swordmage will be added or if the fact that new classes and options being added is enough evidence to support further classes or options being added. This is a textbook strawman argument combined with moving the goalposts. Like, to the T.
>>44088325
It... really is, yeah. But differentiating the words helps as it lets you use both for subtly different terms. Not much use in this case, admittedly.
Plus, synthesis is my favorite word. It's a nice to type, say and it's meaning is innately interesting.
>>44088325
5e paladin actually has a lot going for it in terms of synthesizing magic and melee.
>>44088343
It didn't look like they said anything about the quality of the classes added, just context as to why they were added. Which, while they were totally talking out of their ass for the Spirit Ranger, they brought up a valid point about why the mystic is its own class, rather than a series of subclasses.
Personally I hope we do get a swordmage, but I get the feeling it will play similarly to a Paladin, just with Arcane magic rather than divine.
>>44083553
>I fight with sword.
>I fight with magic
>Nah, fuck you both, I fight with both sword and magic.
>>44088367
>Yeah well screw you, buddy. I fight with Swordmagic.
>>44083717
Spellsword rolls off the tongue better, just try to say those other ones to yourself out loud. It doesn't sound nearly as nice.
>>44083717
semantics are important.
>>44088361
You're right, they didn't call out the quality of additions explicitly. That was the implication I got from it. My bad, etc.
Regardless, questioning the reasoning behind adding the options and entire new class does not in anyway attack the idea that there is more evidence to suggest that new options/classes will be added than evidence against that idea. And questioning the reasoning instead of the action is moving goalposts.
Furthermore regardless additionally, we've got a lot more evidence to support the argument that new classes, variants, and options will "probably be added" than "probably won't [be added]".
Somewhat unrelated but why is it usually spellsword? Dunno why but spellblade or runeblade always seemed to sound better in my head. Also might be because whenever i hear it I keep thinking people are saying sellsword or swellsword
>>44088381
Fair enough, though quite a few of the ones listed in this thread like witchhammer are somewhat passable.
>>44088381
I just did, and
>rune spear
>hex axe
>witch hammer
>cudgel conjurer
>flailchanter
all flow equally as well.
Fistwizard is arguably superior, in every way.
>>44083717
Linguistic reference to the term 'sellsword'.
>>44088463
Witchhammer sounds the best out of those I think.
>>44088381
Spellsword sounds too much like sellsword. No good.
>>44088463
Hex axe, cudgelconjurer and flailchanter feel awkward. Runespear and Witchhammer are good though.
>>44088807
Runespear makes me think of Odin honestly.
>>44088994
A game where Odin is a class is a game that has my attention.
>>44089014
Not Odin himself, necessarily, but something like a generalist caster who can cast small magics in battle, and has a decent amount of weapon skill. As more blood gets spilled, their spells get stronger and stronger. Otherwise they need to sacrifice something for more powerful effects.
I guess if players don't want to RP out things like spilling blood, you could track HP as a resource system.
>>44089014
Question. If I choose the odin class do the ravens count as familiars or animal companions
>>44089048
Sounds like the bloodhunter homebrew.
>>44089048
Not sure if a runespear based on Odin would have that mechanic. Odin was poetry and wisdom.
If anything I suppose it would be a non-sucky truenamer with martial abilities. Knowing truenames to see people from afar, or just through walls before stabbing the bastard. Just having crunch-worthy fluff.
A system based around norse gods would be interesting. Players could be half blooded children, those with the rune of their paton god or similar.
>>44083553
Terra is a great girl.
There's no Hex Axe because Hexblade is already a thing, you mongs.
And Eldritch Knight is still the best.
Quick question, What's the difference between a spellsword and battlemage?
Terra isn't a gish. She's a sorcerer.
>>44091975
I think the distinction is best made in the Elder Scrolls universe. A spellsword is a swordsman, possibly a mercenary, who enhances their combat prowess with spellcasting. A battlemage is a spellcaster who specializes in combat oriented spells, and is trained in at least the basics of physical combat.
>>44092016
>wears heavy armor and wields heavy swords
No.
>>44093519
Anyone can equip almost everything in FF6. There are no mechanics regulating it.
Terra canonically wears cloth and uses a scimitar/saber. Given her transformation ability and magic being mostly elemental attacks and healing, she's basically a Druid.
