Hello /tg/
I'm building up categories for my weapon system, and i wanted to ask you about the bastard sword*
I just wanted to know, is the way it's wielded more akin to a 2h sword, or a 1h sword?
*i know there is no such thing as a bastard sword historically, but let's say that for the purpose of this thread i mean Aragorn's sword, or Geralt's sword, as opposed to a sword that has not enough space on the hilt for both hands.
TL;DR: the way of fighting with a bastard sword is more like fighting with a 2h sword or a 1h sword?
>>44058758
The 'bastard sword' as you call it has most in common with the German Longsword. What D&D calls a 'longsword' is more akin to an arming sword. Anyways to answer your question a 'bastard sword' would be used best as a two handed weapon to give you the most striking power and more importantly the most control and leverage of the blade.
>>44058758
I don't understand the question.
You can fight with it either way.
You can fight with a sword that isn't exceptionally large with two hands.
>>44058758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwdg6lblKow
Swords.
Go watch videos about swords.
Be smacked in the face with knowledge.
You're welcome, OP.
>...i know there is no such thing as a bastard sword historically...
The term wasn't widely used, but swords with two-handed grips and light enough to be used one-handed were fairly common in europe for several centuries and were sometimes called 'bastard swords'.
From the fighting manuals of the time, it seems that they were usually wielded in two-hands, with one-handed grips usually being used only for making specific strikes or when transitioning between grips.
For example, you would probably draw the weapon with one hand and may need to immediately parry or strike with it, then get your second hand on the hilt for greater power and control, but later make a lunge which meant you had to take one hand off the sword to get maximum reach.
>>44058804
Thank you, I was actually thinking the same thing, but i thought to come here anyway to hear other opinions and share.
I honestly don't know how d&d managed to consider a "bastard sword" as an arming sword, which if i recall correctly is a sword used also in cavalry units. But oh, well.
>>44058758
Bastard sword is a synonym for longsword. Longsword is generally a two-handed secondary weapon that, unlike primary battlefield weapons, can still be used one-handed if necessary and can be comfortably worn on the hip.
Two-handed weapons designed for battlefield use such as polearms and greatswords tend to be too long to wear and too large to swing one-handed without having issues with the hilt or shaft. Longsword simply is a compromise for a maximally effective cut-and-thrust sword that is still practical enough to be worn by nobles and officers in day-to-day use and off duty.
>>44058856
I was thinking about the way this kind of sword was "designed" to be used best.
I know you can use it either way, but my personal opinion is that it's best used with both hands, and while it can be effective even with 1h, the 2h way is still the best among both.
I wanted to share it and see if i'm right or wrong.
Hope it's clearer now.
>>44058902
>this guy
Yeah, nah. He's right about 65% of the time, but when he says something stupid it's incredibly stupid.
>>44058950
This pretty much clarifies all of it, thank you very much. So, main use is 2h, with very restricted and situational, but still intended, 1h use.
>>44059144
65% I dunno about that low, but yeah he's not always 100%...I don't think any of them on youtube are?
It's more of a starting point to explore the world of SWORDS in an easily digestible format than it is THE definitive source.
Also, the dude has a LOT of SWORDS and seems to spend a lot of time SWORDING and making SWORD video...so I'm inclined to trust his info more than most random anons.
What is a hand and a half Sword then?
Why would you use a half sword as a 1H or a 2H sword? Thats wasting all its potential and use.
Call me when you figure out that you can design shields that allows you to grip your weapon at the same time as using the shield
>>44058758
What dnd calls a "longsword" is typically more associated with an arming sword, viking era sword, or other pretty much strictly one-handed sword. They could technically be used in two hands (as could pretty much any handheld weapon if you're so inclined) but they often had rather tight grips that didn't really allow you to put a second hand anywhere useful, and there doesn't seem to have been any particular benefit to doing this (save halfswording, or certain parries.)
Bastard swords, or hand-and-a-half swords, could technically be used in two hands, as the name implies, and were intended to facilitate use in two or one hand(/s). What we like to call a "longsword" probably fell pretty squarely into this position, but swords didn't tend to get well categorized during their respective eras, so it causes some confusion here and there. From a European standpoint, these were probably some of the first two-handed swords, and it's very plausible the addition of another had was more to facilitate the use of a LONGER sword rather than putting more force into a swing (which two hands doesn't actually help much with.) Balance and speed are key for bladework, and so while bastard swords could be used with one hand, it's nowhere near as effective as using them with two hands for much better control and leverage so you're not swinging wide or recoiling on strikes.
That said, with these weapons (and even the much larger dedicated two handed swords that came later,) there seem to be at least some moves that made use of only one hand. Stabs especially made with one outstretched limb seemed to be an at least somewhat common method of sneaking extra range out of a strike.
tldr, "Longswords" were actually bastard swords, and bastard swords were mostly used with two hands to allow for greater control with a longer weapon.
I think the best use for a bastard sword is as an all-round sword. You might want to start a fight with sword and shield, and later lose the shield or it might break, and then a one handed sword is at disadvantage. Or you might encounter a heavily armored enemy, which requires more force to penetrate, causing you to discard the shield.
>>44060163
Longswords modern terminology bastard sword/hand a half/longsword all the same.
>>44060322
>the halfswording meme
This has to be the most over exposed and exaggerated martial arts technique of the internet age. Half swording is used best as a transition. You don't fight the whole time in half sword like it's a guard you pass through it to do something else or defend strongly. That picture for example the mordslag a strike you can't get too without halfswording first.
>Call me when you figure out that you can design shields that allows you to grip your weapon at the same time as using the shield
They're called armour and they're in the pic oh and pic related.
>>44061746
That pictures actually shit and not what I meant to post what I intended to point out was duelling shields that were shield and weapon at once.
Anyway bastard swords were very real and the advantage is both their blade length but most notably their hilt length. Swords are alot more than meets the eye and geometrically they're forged and designed to be in movement not just pretty and sharp. The most notable point of rotation on a Longsword is the middle of the grip. You strike with one hand at the top Pushing forward and one hand below pulling back (not in that order) and it levers around the that central point of rotation. This makes them strike hard and fast with a fraction of the effort and this two handed grip is far easier on the arms as exhaustion is the first and worst opponent to a fencer. Pic sort of but not really related.
Anyway Longswords are the great all rounder not only in that they are fantastic offensive and defensive weapons at once but more that they're the middle ground between all weapons. Techniques learned with the longsword can go up to spears and polearms or down to shorters swords and even daggers and knives.
So they were fantastic sporting, training and educational tools and excelled in these settings much more than on the battlefield where the one handed swords still remained the most common..
