Would Lovecraftians monsters whose morality is beyond our ken be "unaligned", in D&D terms having no alignment? Can things exist outside the alignment system in D&D?
>>43975991
Far Realms monsters are pretty universally Chaotic or Chaotic Evil.
>>43975991
It depends, really. A case could be made that they're Lawful - after all, the point of Lovecraftian horror is that the TRUE nature of reality is just horrific to our sensibilities. They embody law, it's just law we don't like.
>>43975991
Everything should be beyond the alignment system.
Also, Rule Zero. GM's word is law
>>43976180
Since the true nature is incomprehensible to our minds they could be an alignment that doesn't normally exist. They are beyond hood and evil, and the true order in the universe could simply be too chaotic to comprehend. So I would make them Lawful Chaotic to express how truly alien they are to our minds.
>>43975991
Alignments are fucking retarded, thus the premise of the entire question is fucking retarded.
>>43976351
>Lawful Chaotic
I like that.
>>43976621
And of course they're in constant conflict with those damned Chaotic Lawfuls.
>>43976725
ROBOT HOOOUUUUSE
>>43975991
According to 1980's AD&D, most of the Cthulhu mythos is Chaotic Evil.
>>43976351
I imagine it takes a special sort of gangsta to be lawful hood
>>43975991
Pure Chaotic or Pure Lawful. Only whether they're one is or the other is randomized upon encounter and not known until detected through some means.
>>43975991
Actually, if you use the older "only law vs chaos" paradigm, being fully alligned one way or the other (instead of being lust law-leaning which appears good, or chaos-leaning which appears evil, like most mortals) comes off as genuinely alien and Lovecraftian.
>>43976180
if you're going that route then the already totally broken Alignment system just breaks apart completely.
I mean the at the root you've just argued that something that 'looks and acts completely chaotic is 100% lawful'
What is chaos, then?
>>43978514
Existentialism
>>43978514
Something that looks and acts completely Lawful?
>>43977012
They also have Elric at Chaotic Evil, which I think kind of misses the point. If Elric were Chaotic Evil, he would have had a happy, trouble-free life. Still, in the case of Cthulhu and crew, I don't think that's entirely wrong, at least not the Evil part. Evil doesn't mean that you twirl your mustache, cackling about how you're gonna spread darkness across the land. Well, it could, I suppose, but it usually doesn't. It just means that you are ruthlessly self-interested. Hell, it doesn't have to be limited to self-interest. You could be ruthlessly dedicated to your lover, family, friends and/or ethnic group. You're willing to do terrible and unjust things in order to get your way.
>>43977296
It'd be like comparing DMX and Ja Rule. Ja went around starting shit with everyone, DMX included. Ultimately though DMX decided to be the one to end the fight before it started, earning the respect of and converting Ja to a less chaotic lifestyle. There ain't that many paladins in the rap world, but force of will strong enough to shake the behavior of others is basically as close to paragon as it gets.
also, underrated post.
>>43975991
there are a few certainties across different individual old ones.
nyarlathotep for instance just wants to consume every one and thing, fuck the consequences. chaotic evil pretty inarguably.
Hastur the yellow king is also a straight shooter in that he collects knowledge, so pretty neutral with a tendency to lawful, as all that info probably needs to make sense and be sorted by him.
>>43975991
No. Best way to describe them is with Chaotic, Neutral, and Lawful. What those modifier's cover is entirely alien and unknowable.
>>43978584
>DMX and Ja Rule
Those are stupid names. Why can't we go back to the days when musicians had good, respectable names?
The Uvuudaum, lords of the far realm, are usually Neutral Evil.
Father Llymic, a dark general from the far realm (though a far lesser being than an Uvuudaum, still an Elder Evil capable of ending a material plane), is Chaotic Evil.
>>43977296
Fucking leprachauns
>>43975991
>can something exist outside the stupid arbitrary 9 categories of muh babbys first RPG
>>43979185
is the leprechaun lawful or chaotic hood?
>>43975991
acording to the 3e manual of the planes the main lovecraftian horrors are psedunatural creatures and they share the alingment of the base creature
>>43978514
A pattern looks chaotic. But it repeats anon.
And thats where law comes in.
Other options to completely break the DnD system in term of superplanar beings is beings with alignment values or combinations far beyond what the system allows.
Superior Lawful is one, as the post you quoted wanted to go at.
>>43976369
Also this.
On the top of True Good and Good True, and Evil Good versus Good Evil and many others.
>>43979228
Lawful Chaotic.
>>43975991
Chaotic or neutral evil
>>43975991
they're chaotic evil
whether they think they're not is unimportant
>>43975991
Taking a look at the SRD... ""Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master."
The entities of the mythos would probably kill you not out of any malice, but from not realising you're there, or sentient.
Now, Law and Chaos, would make things interesting. Despite most sources having him pegged as Chaotic; Cthulhu, as the High Priest of his people, and their leader, is far more likely to be Lawful Evil.
>>43975991
Depends. The deities are macrocosmic in nature. Their motives and actions take into account things we can't possibly know and they impact a bigger picture than we can see. People are often just caught between much grander things that last longer that take more than a mortal lifetime to unravel. For this reason I believe the alignment of the Lovecraftian deities should be considered random in games and maybe rolled, to reflect that they're doing their thing and the characters have just happened to have maneuvered themselves in the right or wrong end of the deities' actions by chance.
>>43989379
Now, lesser races on the other hand, move on a smaller scale. They can perceive and react to mankind. Thing about morality and law is, it's subjective to a culture. For example, gypsies marry and fuck before they reach adulthood, and in some cases even mid-teenage. It's within their laws and traditions. In contrast, western societies condemn pedophilia and have laws that penalize it.
So law and morality is subjective. Morality has to do about how you view an action according to your standards. Lawfulness has to do with if a character abides by a code he recognizes, regardless of what we think of said code.
