![DIA669464[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wdwxnNx.jpg "DIA669464[1].jpg")
So i just bought this boxed edition. Seems like it could be fun.
Anyone else have any experience with it?
For the longest time I didn't know this was different from Mice and Mystics.
That being said, I've always wanted to try this one, but I just barely introduced a group of people to D&D this year, and their all in the full swing of that, so it might be awhile before I can introduce a new system.
>>43966762
Kind of know that problem.
This will be the first rpg book i read, i ordered the three core rulebooks for D&D yesterday though but haven't arrived yet.
Just too bad i dont know anyone irl who wants to play RPG's
>>43966713
Good choice OP, it's lovely. Find the right group for it and enjoy yourself.
Oh, and read the Mouse Guard comic, not because you need to, but because it's nice and you might get some inspiration. If you can't find the magazine, just torrent it.
The player turn/Gm turn cycle can be abstracted with more experienced play groups for smoother play. Treat it like call and response storytelling.
Game is very narrativist and mice are small and weak. Be sure your combat-happy player knows Istanbul things will slap his shit silly.
If someone ties to abuse weather, punish his choices in the long run. Ie too many clear days = a drought or a mudslide come the next rain.
>>43966713
Very nice, The book is well written, neatly formatted and I love the illustrations. Be sure to let us know how the game was!
>>43966880
Thanks, will absolutely do that!
>>43966944
I like that they aren't very powerful and punishing with weather could lead to some fun scenarios.
I should probably post in a local RPG group or something to see if anyone is interested.
>>43966713
NOBODY PLAYS THIS GAME
GOD I WANT TO PLAY THIS SO BAD
BUT I DON'T WANT TO ATTRACT FURRIES
SHEET
>>43967565
you're too worried about furfags. 90% of them can keep it in their pants when interacting with normal humans.
>>43966713
You might need to make some houserules. My old playgroup said that certain weapons and scripted combat actions were just objectively better than the others, but you can easily tweak the numbers a bit to find a nice balance.
>>43967617
I'm sorry, I just had a really bad experience with furfags, okay?
...To be frank, anything that reminds me of my old gaming group is a 'trigger'.
God, I'm glad I was able to find other players.
>>43966713
Is it necessary to read the comics before running this?
>>43966713
There's some board game of this where it's little mouse warrior dudes at one of my FLGS and it looks sweet but I've never seen anybody playing it, I'm sure I could get people to play it though. It's like a little plastic toolbox and on the back it has a list of items inside which seem to imply a bunch of board game pieces, is this the same thing?
I'm envisioning it being a Watership Down type game where you're little mouse hero guys, that would be sweet.
>>43969320
That might be Mice and Mystics, they're very similar.
>>43969238
Not strictly necessary, but they're worth a read anyway.
>>43969320
This is an RPG rather than a board game, but Mouse Guard's creator is a pretty savvy guy, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is a board game too.
It's a little bit Watership Down, a little bit Redwall, with a touch of Mrs. Brisby and the Rats of Nimh. The setting involves these mice who have become more human than other mice, and begun building their own tiny civilization.
The Mouse Guard are mice who are brave enough to be the defenders of the other mice, and are serious badasses. Pic related.
>>43969320
This one?
>>43969464
>Hoot Hoot Hoot
>Fuck you mouse you piece of shit.
more pix of mouse adventures, plx
>>43966713
Personally I prefer Hyperborean Mice. Mostly for the magic system and the monster manual.
Check it out.
Here's another pdf.
>>43966713
I would like to know more about this, I was on the edge of buying it but held off, as I mostly just buy systems to steal their unique mechanics.
>>43967747
Care to share the story? I dislike flurries as much as the next guy, but I'm generally curious what bad memories you have with them
>>43967565
Furfag here,
Anyone who tries to spread their magical realm in a game of Mouseguard should be shot.
Seriously, it's a damn fun game about some of the best books of your childhood.
You try to bed the mousemaid? I hope you're prepared to fight a hawk in an open field.
>>43971001
Uh, judging from the comics, Mouse Guard is more "Watership Down" than "Redwall"
I've been looking in to relatively simple and/or easy to understand systems to run as a first time DM for my friends that have minimal-to-no tabletop RPG experience. Every time Mouse Guard gets mentioned here, everyone raves about it. Should I look in to it?
The other systems I've looked in to Savage Worlds, the Legend of Zelda ruleset on 1d4chan, 13th Age, and Pathfinder and M&M, which I have experience in as a player.
>>43972491
I would say no. It's a very good system, but easy to get lost in the minutia. For a beginning game I would recommend something like OneDice or Barebones. Both are simple without being simplistic, and fairly intuitive.
>>43972491
You listed a bunch of systems that are far from minimal, simple, or easy to understand.
>>43972895
Are good suggestions.
I'll throw in The Strange, as it has some pre-made adventures, though they're not the best modules by far.
If you absolutely must have a DnD-like, like 13th age, then 5th edition is the simplest of those bunch.
>>43973300
As simple as it is compared to 3e/4e, 5th edition D&D is still byzantine compared to good old Basic D&D. Grab the retroclone called Labyrinth Lord and you're good.
>>43973709
I'm not super familiar with all of the retroclones, I play Dungeon Crawl Classics actively (GMed two sessions in the last two weeks), which is simple, but it's not as intuitive as 5e.
>>43973746
Yeah, DCC is an oddball that's kind of like Advanced 2e with some of 3e, with a dash of Hackmaster craziness. (Lots of dice rolls, lots of tables)
Basic is a good bit simpler -- it used to have "Ages 10 and up" on the box, for good reason.
>>43973951
That sounds like a better answer then.
>>43970764
Okay, I know this is super late, but let's put this in context.
>I'm a sheltered 14-year-old in a private high school with only the barest ideas of how sex works and the smallest possible glimpse into the horror that is the Internet.
>At that point, I only know about furries by word-of-mouth.
>They're supposed to be people with issues, to put it lightly. Not people you know personally.
>One of my friends, a guy a class level lower than me, joins this Skype game of Dungeons and Dragons with us.
>He's a fan of Bethesda games, which includes Skyrim.
>And he's also a Sonic fan (has a 'Tails' OC, yeah, you get where this is going), which irks me a bit, but it's his business and not mine, so whatever.
>He gets the DM to homebrew in a Khajiit race, which blinks on my radar as odd but otherwise okay.
>Then he decides to play a female CN rogue, and this is ticking a lot of my That Guy boxes.
>But the DM okays it for some reason, why I don't know, maybe he didn't want to deal with the anger.
>So his character enters the game, and things immediately get worse.
>His character starts rubbing up on other PCs and asks to 'cuddle'.
>Every character, male or female, whether they looked open or not.
>And he doesn't stop even if they ask, only trying to flirt more in the awful manner you see in chatboxes for preteen MMOs.
>Now, my head is whirling with alarms, and I'm half-inclined to make my excuses, duck out, and find another group altogether, even if it means going online.
>Some of us were sitting in the same physical room since we all (except one person) went to the same school and there were two lunches.
>That Guy wasn't at the lunch I was, but some of the other players were.
>And we just looked at each other, and the group just had a zen moment.
Continued:
>The conversation just kept going as if That Guy's character wasn't present, and everybody but That Guy played along.
>Eventually he spergs out under the cause of 'you guys aren't letting me play my character' and drops out of the chatbox.
>The whole gang just has a moment of relief and moves on.
>He ended up coming back with a different character much later in the campaign once he had calmed down.
So after reconsidering everything about him and wondering why he would do this, it hits me like a truck that he's a furry.
Which he turned out to be, as it happened.
Now, I'm dealing with the fact that one of my close friends is this alleged freak of nature and I decide not to ever let what happened ever again if I'm a DM.
I've learned now that not all furfags are gonna shove their stuff in your face, but since I was still learning how to deal with the fact that women existed, it still remains a personal hotbutton for me as a DM if someone tries to play an anthro (catpeople, gnolls or the like) in my games.
But I really liked Mouse Guard's system and even setting, which is why the internal conflict began.
>>43974588
Christ, dude. Seriously? Yeah, he was obnoxious, but that wasn't even the tip of the iceberg as far as problem furry players, and you let it "scar" you?
You're fucked if you ever have to deal with a real that guy.
>>43974658
Have you read the Oklahoma University president ranting about people being coddled in safe spaces?
I was lightly amused.
>>43974658
I don't even know why man, I've had to deal with worse stuff, like the one guy with an abusive dad who attacked me during an argument, but that was the one that really stuck with me.
>>43974687
Poster of green here, you know I know it.
I realized how much I've been coddled and I fucking hate it.
I still can't get past a lot of it, and it pissed me off on a fundamental level.
Anyone who plays Mouseguard might enjoy the Reaper miniatures Mouslings line. Even though Mouseguard doesn't need miniatures, there's something incredibly charming about them.
>>43974852
I always wondered where I could get these.
Thanks, anon.
mouse games!
>>43974891
They always bring out another six or so for each Kickstarter... so you can get almost all of them in Bonesium now for really low cost.
>>43974931
>Muscle: 6+ Pinkie
>Outwit: 4+ Crawler
>Unnoticed: 2+ Adult
>Skitter: 3+ Hopper
>Energy: 5+ Fuzzy
>Name: Timothy
>Brown fur
>Unusually cowardly, even for a mouse
Mouse Guard is filled with perhaps some of the most heroic and badass moments of any comic I've ever read.
>>43966880
>>43975334
Well you two have hyped this, anyone have a link?
>>43975386
http://muletorrent.com/search/mouse%20guard%20complete/
>>43975407
Well, it apparently works.
Much appreciated.
>>43975407
>>43975334
>>43975742
>what is reading
>>43973300
>>43973709
>>43973746
This year I've introduced a handful of first time TTRPGers to 5th edition, and it went smoothly.
A few "nerds", a few "normies", and some females. All of which picked it up with relative ease, and most of which continue to play.
>>43975720
I've seen this a million and one times, but where is it from? I always thought someone drew it to be funny or edgy. This is the first time I've seen the page on the left.
>>43967747
Your post made me laugh, but only because I know an autistic furry named Frank.
>>43975854
It's a comic. >>43975407
>>43975854
Mouse Guard: Winter 1152
>>43975854
Mouse Guard Winter 1152 issue 4
>>43966713
I have wanted to play this for SO LONG!
But every time I get a group together, inevitably everyone wants to play something different and we wind up compromising on Pathfinder or D&D 5th despite the fact that none of us really like those systems. It's like being married to someone who you don't find attractive anymore.
>>43975491
>>43975641
Welcome. Enjoy!
>>43975854
It's not a funny or edgy scene in the comic.
It's just fucking badass.
>>43966713
I loved the comics, but god damn it is near impossible to find a group for this game. None of my friends want to learn burning wheel so all they play is 5e.
>>43975897
I'm delirious from being sick and stuffed to the gills with medicine the last two days and somehow this topic made me into a blogposter.
After winter vacation I'm gonna try to start up a game for you fa/tg/uys, because I'm a foreverDM and you people at least seem to want to play.
Or I'll forget about my offer in two days.
Either way.
Black Axe 1, for whomever wants it.
Now I want to play this even more.
http://imgur.com/a/VjSVV
>>43974687
Been keeping a close eye on this stuff, actually. His rant was freakin' hilarious.
>>43974694
Eh. We've all got our triggers, I guess, and they don't necessarily have to make sense.
>>43974852
Do want!
Is there a pdf of the 2nd edition?
I have the 1st boxed set, curious what the differences are.
>>43974524
>>43974588
I hate furries too, but I dont know... Mice. just never seemed like furry territory to me.
I dont know a single person that didnt like The Secret of Nihm, The Rescuers, or American Tail. And those arent furry shit, they are just small characters overcoming impossibly sized odds, which is awesome
Stop being such a fucking pussy and just play the fucking game if you wanna play it. If you have a problem with furries, tell them to keep it to themselves or get the fuck out.
Be a fucking man, show some fucking backbone.
Are you really that scared of someones wierd sexual hangups, cuz I can show you some really fucked up ones. furries are just the tip of the fucked up shit-berg
>>43977256
Fool. You're just a pawn of big cheese!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK92NYwBMts
I have one of the comics in hard copy signed by the creator I believe. To no ones surprise he plays skaven
>>43970317
While it's premises and artwork helped move it I've heard it's got pretty good unique social mechanics. So it would probably good to play regardless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MoTnYHrEkI
>>43974588
Realize an important distinction between Mouse Guard and furry shit. In Mouse Guard the players are playing mice. Intelligent, sapient mice, but mice nonetheless. Not mouse-people, not anime girls with mouse ears. Mice.
>>43977496
still weird why he never included rats in the setting despite it. probably to avoid the rats being the big bads cliche but who knows
>>43975407
That's a shady looking fucking downloader, muletorrent? The fuck happened to kickass?
>>43972491
Honestly, what matters most is how you introduce them. I mean, I've got ten or twelve people into playing with D&D 4e and it went smoothly with almost all of them, and I'll be the first to admit that the game is not always ideal for first timers. Familiarize yourself with something and go with it.
>>43979447
Yeah, I was pretty suspicious of it too. And guess what, my suspicions proved correct! After nearly half an hour of fixin and deletin, I've finally gotten my shit unfucked.
>>43979589
Anyone got different link then?
>>43974524
>>43974588
So theres a ton of factors at work here. First the dude was going through puberty, second nobody is a complete human in highschool, and third it sounds like you needed to have a conversation about what was and wasn't okay.
That being said, you're perfectly entitled to feel however you want to feel about furries. If your experience was unpleasant enough that you never want to deal with them again, you're the boss of you. Just know that in my experience, adult furries are not going to inflict their fetish upon others and if they do it is usually easily resolved through conversation.
Now on the topic of mouseguard, I have had many conversations about what kind of small animals/insects would function as a fanstasy monster to fight if one were the size of a mouse. There is considerable satisfaction to be gained in knowing that the dragon to be slain is a two headed snake or the beast terrorizing the village is an overgrown solifuge
>>43966944
Fuck Mud Slides.
The Land Carp was a noble vessel.
A noble, tragic vessel.
/salute
>>43979613
just search for mouse guard on kickass
>>43972280
It's honestly a little of both. It has the scale and racial relationships of Watership Down, but the civilization and anthropomorphism of Redwall.
>>43972491
It is a VERY specific bent of RPG. The process of leveling up is a session unto itself, wherein players nominate other players for excellence or dedication to a particular field or skill, discussions are had, and then skills and feats are leveled accordingly. 'Attack' can be anything from swinging a sword to aggressive conversation to building a bridge. If you think your friends are the kind with focus and imagination but lack a delight in minutia or tactical maneuvering, Mouse Guard is a SUPERB introduction to RPGs. It has an incredibly strong focus on what it wants to be (moreso than almost any other RPG I've played; it's strong competition would be DnD 4E) and if that kind of pointedly narrative drapery over a solid mechanical framework feels like it'd be too artsy or frilly for your friends, you're much better off with something else.
>>43979723
>search for mouseguard on kickass
>As I said that kickass has shady downloader
>Exactly post above.
I think you need glasses anon.
>>43979786
nevermind, just realized that the earlier link is a fake. Here's a good site: https://kat.cr/mouse-guard-the-black-axe-01-06-2010-2013-complete-archaia-t7092846.html
>>43979369
I've thought about this one a lot. No rats, no cats, no humans.
I don't think humans exist (at all) in the setting, so animals that are 'domestic' aren't there either.
>>43979839
>I don't think humans exist (at all) in the setting, so animals that are 'domestic' aren't there either.
But there have been things such as human sized fishing hooks and needles.
About the game -
I ran a full (game) year of Mouse Guard when it first came out.
Mechanically, it's a dice pool game resolution wise. The checks are for whether your intent succeeds, not the actual check.
It's got a lot of moving parts, but I think it is a great starter RPG, for a bunch of reasons.
1. Intent resolution gives the GM practice in making failure not being incompetence.
2. The GM's turn/Player's turn bit is the best way I've seen to teach someone the rhythm of running a game. It's pretty regimented in mouse guard, but the ebb and flow of "the GM/world drives the story/the players drive the story" demonstrates the dynamic.
3. The setting using mice as the people sets up some good expectations. Everyone knows how shit a mouse is at being a badass, so with mice as people and animals as monsters, players have an intuitive grasp of the odds of a bunch of mice taking down a pack of wolves, which takes some learning with elf-games.
4. Beliefs - say what you want about immersion, a game that gives direct in game rewards for being true to your character gives a new player a reason to think about such matters - what's important to this character.
While the system is Burning Wheel Lite, and is rather crunchy (you need to track successes and failures in checks for advancement), it's strength is teaching you HOW to play a RPG. With very clear "this is what you do" for setting an adventure hook, working in your campaign arc, playing the character's strengths and weaknesses is a good primer.
>>43979896
Really, where? I remember everything being mouse-scale (not saying you're wrong, curious)
>>43966713
Where the fuck did you get the boxed edition ? Did they make another one ???
The french edition was kickstarted and will never be edited again. I'm trying to get one for my GF for christmas...
>>43980014
yeah its the new edition rules which I stongly reccomend as it fixes many issues the first had.
Has the 2nd edition PDF still not made its way on the internet?
>>43980126
its around. But really I'd say put the money down for a hardcopy. Its like twenty bucks and the book itself is a wonder to hold and read.
>>43980131
f u ur not my dad
>>43980112
Thank you so much anon ! The prices for the boxed set 1st edition were insanely high ! I'm going to order the box set right away.
Fuck the french version anyway.
>>43979990
Conrad carried one and the hook's far too big for a mouse to use for a mouse-sized fishing pole. Although, mice there definately fished around rivers, so you can explain it it's just sized accordingly rather than it used to be a human's
feral cats aren't there but Legends of the Guard comics are semi-canon anyway so, cats may have existed in the setting although, not very exposed in there. Not sure why rats don't exist there however since even opossum do
>>43982665
forgot the pic
>>43982665
>Conrad carried one and the hook's far too big for a mouse to use for a mouse-sized fishing pole.
What would a "mouse-sized fishing pole" fish for?
The fish are the same size, it's just that the mice need to do it like harpooning a whale.
Bought the mouseguard 2nd ed boxset recently as well and I have to say it is one of the most gorgeous things I have bough RPG-wise.
Everything BWHQ does is pretty, this one is the prettiest. Love the dice, the cards, the GM screen, the map, the book, everything.
BTW Atomicempire has the boxset for $55.99
>>43984161
I very nearly bought a Mouseguard boxset at the Texas Renaissance Festival last month, I'm starting to think it was a mistake not to.
>>43979839
My theory is that rats are the third civilised race, after mice and stoats.
The ruins under Lockhaven are older than the mice cities, and don't have the architecture of stoat buildings. It was another species that built it, and I think it was rats.
Dear god that looks so gooooood
>>43982942
Tiny fish exist. Mice might not go after salmon or tuna, but minnows and sardines.
>>43985751
>Snacks
Zooplankton
Clams
Mussels
Guppy
>Major catches
Sardine
Herring
Prawn
>Monsters of the Deep
basa, flounder, hake, scup, smelt, rainbow trout, hardshell clam, blue crab, peekytoe crab, spanner crab, cuttlefish, eastern oyster, Pacific oyster anchovy, herring, lingcod, moi, orange roughy, Atlantic ocean perch, Lake Victoria perch, yellow perch, European oyster, sea urchin Atlantic mackerel, black sea bass, European sea bass, hybrid striped bass, bream, cod, drum, haddock, hoki, Alaska pollock, rockfish, pink salmon, snapper, tilapia, turbot, walleye, lake whitefish, wolffish, hardshell clam, surf clam, cockle, Jonah crab, snow crab, crayfish, bay scallop, Chinese white shrimp sablefish, Atlantic salmon, coho salmon, skate, dungeness crab, king crab, blue mussel, greenshell mussel, pink shrimp escolar, chinook salmon, chum salmon, American shad, Arctic char, carp, catfish, dory, grouper, halibut, monkfish, pompano, Dover sole, sturgeon, tilefish, wahoo, yellowtail, abalone, conch, stone crab, American lobster, spiny lobster, octopus, black tiger shrimp, freshwater shrimp, gulf shrimp, Pacific white shrimp, squid barramundi, cusk, dogfish, kingklip, mahimahi, opah, mako shark, swordfish, albacore tuna, yellowfin tuna, geoduck clam, squat lobster, sea scallop, rock shrimp barracuda, Chilean sea bass, cobia, croaker, eel, blue marlin, mullet, sockeye salmon, bluefin tuna
>>43984161
>The sword breaks
>The mouse's arms don't
>He doesn't flinch or lose his grip on the weapon
>Proceeds to stab in the side the guy who just broke his weapon in half
Jesus Christ, I really need to read this series in full now.
>>43986122
dont forget this is a freshwater michigan. and likely the coast is a largte pond or small lake. And even those fish aren't small to a mouse. Shiners which are bait fish and quite common are about three to four inches long. Easily mouse sized.
How does it come that pic related doesn't have its own RPG? It's also pretty epic.
>>43979990
Also the Spring 1153 one-shot or whatever reveals they use the large hooks in conjunction with winches to catch large fish. In this case as part of a bear-sating offering.
It's likely like many weapons, the fish hook was adapted as a martial weapon from basic tools
>>43966713
I don't know about the boxed edition, but if it's the same as the hardback then this game is practically unplayable. It looks like a fun bee-and-pretzels game but it's actually absurdly mechanically convoluted and uses weird narrativist mechanics that impossible to grok.
I suggest reading the comics for the setting, then using whatever system you're most familiar with to do the actual roleplaying.
>>43988494
I would hardly call it unplayable, but it certainly different enough that the rules can be confusing to grasp right away.
If anyone does have trouble with it Roll20 did a one-shot with character creation hosted by Adam Koebel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzuMsDDV4FA
>>43966713
Played two short campaigns, loved the hell out of both of them. Lots of fun.
Had a buddy who was gonna use MG to run a game about humans in a world full of things that really didn't like people and could very easily kill them.
He ended up not being able to run it for some personal reasons, but it looked pretty neat.
what was that book named that was about mice traveling ? there was a cat they avoided and I remember something about a salt lick
I read it when I was like 8 and it was very awesome someone help!! ;-/
>>43986200
>>43985228
It's actually amazingly badass.
I bought all the books after hearing about it here and I don't regret it at all.
>>43989161
Poppy? Redwall?
>>43989768
>Poppy
oh my god you a real nigga!!
I was so into fantasizing about this stuff when I was younger oh god why did no one introduce me to TTRPGs until I was 18 ;(
>>43985354
but the ruins are canals from Darkheather aren't they? you could see a lot of resemblance in terms of the Moorish architecture there unless stoats have been mimicking them or taken it after the rats went off
>>43986200
Those are a pair of legendary fighters, But the Black Axe is an artifact of a forgotten age... and the greatsword mouse is just incredibly hardcore.
>>43992595
uh dude? the greatsword mouse IS the black axeor was till he get offed by an owl. that cunt Midnight just stole it from him
>>43986200
Yeah look a the blonde mouse's loose grip when the sword breaks. He lets the sword take the brunt of it.
>>43993980
>artifact of a forgotten age
anon means the actual weapon.
>>43966713
If you end up running it, make sure to have plenty of trophy hoarding weasels and their ferret bitches for the Guards to slay.
Gwendolyn best matriarch
>>43994654
I didn't even know you could do that, and I'm still not sure you can.
Doesn't a weapon have to be stuck in place to shatter like that, or is it just the power of the axe itself?
I mean, I'm not complaining, but damn.
>>43987648
Because until your pic related becomes translated, my life is incomplete. Please tell me you have '80 translated somewhere!
I'll try and load some of the Mouse Guard comics I have but file may not work. Can't seem to figure out how to post from library... :/
>>43967565
I've been trying to get the group I DM for to try this game but they dismiss it as "Kiddie Stuff"
>>43996144
Send them this picture: >>43995053
Tell them to read the comic.
>>43996144
As someone who always passes by this debatably furry, overly cutsey looking game...
Convince me it isn't.
>>43996144
It's pretty awesome teen stuff with strong themes of adult heroism, sacrifice, and a gritty tone.
>>43996179
Read the thread, check out the comic.
Here's a side story: >>43976527
Isn't this just Burning Wheel starring mice? Why would I play this when I could play Burning Wheel, where I don't have to be a fucking mouse?
>>43996144
Show them Redwall.
Then say you want to play that, but after the apocalypse.
>>43996245
Mouse Guard is much simpler and features mechanics to help with pacing.
Torchbearer is more sophisticated and generic.
Burning Wheel is great. But it's 500 pages. It is far more detailed and sophisticated.
>>43996230
I did. All I see is a D&D knock-off where everyone plays Mice. Apparently Weasels are evil. So are owls. 90% of a pictures foreground is occupied by EARS.
So an extremely limited race pool (Read: No options) with limited "monsters."
I can see an appeal in taking things we normally take for granted (the previously mentioned owls and weasles) and making them huge threatening monsters... But that's what tossing the word "Dire" in front of any animal achieves in any other system.
What I'm trying to get at is what's the point of this system beyond being an anthropomorphized mouse? Y'all apparently hate furries like you should, but there seems to be nothing making these system stand out apart from that.Also the art is trash. Every mouse just looks goofy despite the intention of bloody and grimdark scenes. This is just an opinion though.
>>43996276
>All I see is a D&D knock-off where everyone plays Mice
You might need glasses.
>>43996310
>Replying to the rantings of a retard.
First mistake.
>>43996276
You seem severely damaged by the DnD mindset. The only way for you to go is gurps.
Luke Crane games work much like DnD, but they get it right. Mouse Guard is his junior version. It doesn't tell a story around the rules, it tells it with them. The limitation to a genre of mice helps people like you get over their gimmicky character ideas and helps them focus on what matters to a story.
>>43996310
Bruh, read the conversation. I haven't read the rules, I'm talking about surface appeal as the guy I responded to was complaining about no one wanting to jump in on this game. As a cynic myself I was looking for an argument for the game.
So yes, on the surface I see a low magic fantasy setting with adventuring parties of mice killing weasels, owls and cats for loot. Again, reads to me like a homebrewed campaign of D&D in a low magic everyone-is-mice setting.
I was asking to be proven wrong, not critiqued on my vision. Which, by the way, you're about 14 years too late to the punch, I have glasses mate.
>>43996324
>gurps
Pretty sure he needs stronger medicine than that.
>>43996245
The ruleset is so simplified over Burning Wheel that they feel nothing alike, that being said if you can and are playing Burning Wheel then keep doing so, that game is the best.
>I did. All I see is a D&D knock-off where everyone plays Mice.
Its S&S in so much that medieval weapon exists, beyond that they have next to nothing in common both in play-style and mechanics.
>>43996269
>Torchbearer is more sophisticated and generic.
That sounds more up my alley. Thanks.
>>43996345
Phoenix Command?
>>43996367
Warning about Torchbearer, its not a game where you succeed often. Its pretty brutal and is more about the degrees of failure you'll have. It can a great game with the right group, or your players can get disillusioned with it pretty quick.
>>43996339
with that kind of mindset, might as well say everything in DnD is awfully generic and wave off Planescape as more genric DnD shit when some of the weirdest things that ever graced RPGs.
It's obvious the setting doesn't appeal to you since it's ye olde medieval times but mice. but you gotta understand the that you're seeing things in a mouse's perspective. so, anything big and wants to eat you==evil when it's just predator and prey relations. mouse guards exist to protect mice and allow them to thrive within their territories, whether it's against predators or bandits or rebels. they're not common adventurers as you make them out to be. Even sapient predators aren't portrayed to be inherently evil as how Redwall does it. in Black Axe, you see they actually kept their word and helped the mice to set sail as they killed the fox for them as a favour.
as for magic, if unless you count waking spirits and ghosts as magic, there aren't any so far. most of the things in mouse guard are quite as down to earth as it gets.
>>43996618
That was a weird reply to read. It's like you misinterpreted the tone of everything he said then tried to rebut it.
>>43996339
From the surface it could and maybe does certainly look that way. Mouse Guards rules and setting actually go very well hand in hand and together they make a game that FEELS very unique, something I don't think you could emulate with a D&D conversion.
>>43996339
So Flavor-wise the setting is reasonably gritty, but it does have childish appeal if you're a kid into animals. If that doesn't work for you you don't have to be super invested in the setting (although it certainly helps) because I'm going to come at this from a mechanics perspective.
First is character creation. The process that you go through to make a character feels very organic, you start by picking an age/rank, to get some base stats and then you start answering questions about your character. Where you were born, what kind of talents you have, how you were trained, areas of knowledge, etc. to create a character with a bit more history than numbers on a sheet. You also build the people around him/her and you have something with many more societal connections than an average murder hobo.
The next mechanic I want to talk about is skill advancement. Rather than an xp system, Mouse Guard requires you to use your skill to accumulate successes and failures in order to advance. Admittedly the system is flawed in some ways (bookkeeping is not very fun) but it is a breath of fresh air compared to every other RPG system I've played (pretending that other Luke Crane games don't exist)
>>43997305
The last mechanic I want to talk about is conflict resolution, whether it is combat, debate, chase, or strategy. All of these systems use a script-act sequence that functions like rock-paper-scissors. You begin the conflict process by stating your goal and rolling for your starting disposition. Then you script three actions in secret and roll to determine the outcome of each manuver. It is very abstract and can easily be adapted to a large number of scenarios while remaining tactically interesting despite it's simplicity.
tl;dr There are a lot of great mechanics in this system that diverge quite heavily from D&D, so even if you aren't interested by the setting you should definitely not dismiss it as just another version of D&D
>>43996276
>I judged a book from its cover, prove me wrong!
How about you read it, faggot.
>>43996508
Torchbearer is the tabletop version of Darkest Dungeon
>>43996269
I don't think you should abuse the definition of sophisticated like that.
Most people would say complicated.
>>43996245
Less crunchy. More focused on what you do in the campaign. Tracking skills and advancement is easier. Nature is a stat (closest BW analog is Steel, but even that's a poor fit, as it feels a bit like emotional attributes) that is fucking awesome (what your species is good at, can be used instead of beginners luck- become too mouselike, your character retires, become too much unlike a mouse, your character retires, but the player really has to choose when it happens (it advances and taxes like resources)
Duel of wits, Fight and Range & Cover are folded into one extended conflict system, covering more conflicts (such as mass combat)
Nothing you couldn't do with burning wheel, if thr players are invested in the system, but it's a heck of a lot easier.
Probably does overland adventures better than anything I've seen (though if you know something amazing, I'm all ears)
>>43988494
>hard convoluted mechanics
Are you fucking kidding me? This is one of the easiest games I've ever played. Seriously its skill, roll dice, add up successes at its most basic. Yeah the conflict mechanic seems odd at first but its basically rock paper scissors with a twist.
>>43996345
burning wheel gold?
>>43997324
True that and right now I'm hacking it into a setting from /tg/ based around surviving on an alien planet. Though I'm borrowing things from mouse guard as well.
>>44000288
>>43996374
I was thinking way stronger. Like, Magical Burst or something on the apocalypse engine.
>>44000331
Dungeon world maybe? That might do the trick.
>>44000336
Yeah, it's kind of shit though.
>>43966713
>bump
>2nd Edition
Amazon has highly mixed (and only 3 reviews) of this version with some folks saying that combat and mechanics aren't explained adequately. Can anyone who has it go into further detail?
Is the 2nd Edition less well made than the first? Do you need both?
>>44002739
>>44002739
I haven't read it, but I dare say Luke Crane is not one to publish hastily written games.
>>43982942
Might fish for aquatic insects or fish fry. There are a LOT of those out there, might make pretty good food. Until they run into one of these at least.
How would one run shrews in Mouse Guard? Creatures the size of mice, but with venomous saliva, echolocation, and metabolisms turned up to 11 to the point that their reflexes are insanely fast, but have to gorge themselves every two hours or they die. Something like a ghoul or a fast zombie?
>>43997309
Like >>44002739 Said, it's kinda abstract and more narrative.
People who play games where you say; Roll, Hit, Roll Damage, Next Persons Turn. May find it hard to wrap their head around.
>>44003135
>How would one run shrews in Mouse Guard?
Think dwarves on mescaline.
>>44003632
sounds about right. though if I remember right shrews don't eat much beyond worms and beetles which still could lead to some interesting adventures.
>>44003074
oh the predacious diving beetle. how fucking nightmarish you are.
>>44000309
This anon again, I'm trying to make guns feel impactful and yet not all powerful. How does this sound?
Firearms are powerful weapons that even without bullets can be used to great effect. Once per social conflict they can be used for a +1d attack of feint action a you brandish the weapon about in a threatening manner.
In a drive off or kill conflict A firearm can use a bullet to be fired in an attack action. This must be noted at the top of the round when weapons are chosen. Should a bullet be used its gone from your inventory immediately and provides a +2d to the next attack action and makes it a vs. attack as well.
I figure on making ammo limited so actually firing a weapon should have some oomph behind it.
so how does one convince a group to actually play this game?
>>44004961
Christmas is coming. Gift every player a copy of one of the comics.
Rest should be easy.
>>44004999
nice triples, and I meant on a more regular normal basis. For that matter how do I get a party of people to play torchbearer?
>>44005307
Same as for any RPG.
>that feel when you're archive delving and you're reading old writefaggotry that reads like a really bitchin' burning wheel game.
>>44005348
Not him, but I'm interested in how you get people to play any RPG.
>>44005730
carefully, first ya gotta figure out what they actually like in their games.
>>43988494
Serious question: Do you have a learning disability?
>>44006558
Happy to see I wasn't the only one that thought that.
>>43988494
>bee-and-pretzels
Sounds horrifying.
>>44007049
Hey man, bees got it rough too.
so has anyone made natures for other creatures before? I'm trying to think of a good one for humans.
>>44007915
Humans are little bit too complex and I'd bet that you could do a masters thesis on potential lists for what is in Human nature.
>>44007993
True but I'd rather not delve into the wonder that is burning wheel gold to run a game set on Lenore. So fuck it I'll steal the natures used for people in Torchbearer they're pretty solid.
>>44004195
Shrews eat mice and other shrews when they get the chance. There are a lot of studies on this.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3504010?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contentshttp://
www.jstor.org/stable/1374897
There are also grasshopper mice, which are omnivorous mice immune to centipede and scorpion venom and regularly hunt and kill other mice. Mammalogists have often reported that they will fill a bucket up with several deer mice and a grasshopper mouse and come back to find a single fat, happy grasshopper mouse.
>>44003632
DF dwarves maybe.
>>44008362
Or DF elves.
So what about voles?
this is funny. literally every time someone new gets introduced to mouse guard, they ask if they can play something other than a mouse
>>44012384
I know that feel.
There's like a Special Snowflake Clause:
>Whenever introduced to a new system, at least one player in the group will attempt to play something unsupported by both the genre and the rules due to their lack of experience with one or both.
In other words, we the Squirrel Guard now.
>>44012694
To be fair, people playing these types of games probably really enjoy Redwall and want to pick a small woodland animal of their choiceFerret master race
>>43974852
I have an urge to replace the middle one with an Ewok
>>43987456
>dont forget this is a freshwater michigan.
Is that actually established?
>>44015217
considering the bagders there are american badgers and he based the Calogero shores and its crabs around a lake in Michigan, it's safe to assume it is.
>>44012694
fuck year
>>44008362
>grasshopper mouse
>defends its territory by "howling" like a small wolf.
That's pretty metal.
>>43966713
Every time people talk about Mouse Guard I really want to play it again, but then I recall that the combat system is super not fun.
>>44017084
how so? I find it very tense and exciting as you need to actually out guess your opponents..
>>43966786
im guessing you mean 5e then poor anon should have gone with 3e much better system
hell maybe even 4e it may not auctaly be d&d but at least its still semi fun
>>44017300
That's actually what I don't like. The rock-paper-scissors bit adds a meta element I'm not particularly fond of, since it seems (at least for new characters, since the game I was in didn't go on too long) that it doesn't matter how well you actually do on your attacks if you're not good at reading the GM's mind.
Also, it makes combat take way too fucking long.
>>44006558
That's the only sort of person I ever hear using the word 'grok'.
>>44017322
>3e much better system
How does it feel to be subhuman scum?
>>44017358
I like the system. It breaks of from generic turn based thinking and makes it feel more lively encounter rather than PC/Console game like situation.
>>44017371
>How does it feel to be subhuman scum?
well it does feel nice not to have advantage in my system
>>44005674
links?
>Be Britfag
>Run Mouse Guard game set in British woodlands
>Players asked by city to remove hedgehog
>Hedgehog has made home in main burrow into the city and won't move
>City now infested with fleas due to hedgehog
>Players have to figure out how to get rid of a grouchy armoured monsters covered in spikes the size of a fucking tank
>They get in drunk on rotting apples, cart it away and dump it in a ditch
>After it had rampaged through the town like Godzilla
This is a great game.
>>44017358
When I run it, I try to play my moves like the animal might. It's tactics, just not on a grid.
>>44017821
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=alien%20world
in particular the 008 entries early on read how I feel a burning wheel game goes lots of compromises lots of taxing nature in the form of wondering just how far from 'civilized' he's become etc.
>>43969464
>kids stuff
>"this ends in death"
>mfw
>>43986122
okay, okay...this gets me bathyphobia....
think as a PC...
think MouseGuard Scale...
then,mouse meets giant squid
>>43987648
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejOoN3IegCY
>edited like shit, but i dunno a vid' service that embeds to 'chan like you tube
>>44012384
Is there a system with support for a Redwall type of playing, with bonuses for singing about food and the other have a badger going on a bloodlust fueled murder spree.
>>44020274
No. For that you'd just want something with rules for giving bonuses for good narration. Some iteration of Fate might be a good choice.
>>44020118
Overgrowth looks great.
>>44016555
What a cool picture.
>>44020064
wow that picture is actually kinda terrifying
id imagine it wouldnt fuck with a lil mouse however
So /tg/ I'm trying to make a slightly mechanical basis for building settlements as the game I'm working on is going to have the party setting up new colonies in a largely uninhabited continent. The burning wheel forums were...less than helpful. As I'm basing this off of mouse guard/torchbearer it actually does matter at little that they can spend checks and do things within them.
>>43966786
>>43966762
The GameFinder thread is always looking for GMs; maybe you guys can get a game started. I'd love to play it sometime, but I'm in too many campaigns right now as is.
>>44017322
>3e
>better
Come on, m8, I like 3.x too, but you have to admit that 5e is better designed, balanced, and streamlined. The only reason to play 3e anymore is for the sheer amount of choice its supplement bloat offers. (Which is a good reason, but not for newbies.)
>>44026361
>Come on, m8, I like 3.x too, but you have to admit that 5e is better designed, balanced, and streamlined. The only reason to play 3e anymore is for the sheer amount of choice its supplement bloat offers. (Which is a good reason, but not for newbies.)
Not him, but 5e is weird to me in that yeah I feel like it is a better designed game that is more balanced and streamlined...but I have less fun playing it that 3.X, so I can't rightly call it a better game.
>>44023812
What about looking for another simple game that already has settlement building in it and just adopting their system? I don't know any off the top of my head that aren't complex mechanical games, but im sure one exists.
>>44028120
>What about looking for another simple game that already has settlement building in it and just adopting their system? I don't know any off the top of my head that aren't complex mechanical games, but im sure one exists.
Maybe look at Labyrinth Lord's An Echo, Resounding. It has rules for running kingdoms and such, and they're fairly light from what I hear.
Just found this link, gonna take some time to go through it, but damn it looks promising.
https://www.burningwheel.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-47.html
pdf?
bump
So, the Nations of Mouse Guard...
We've established mice and ferrets as civilized cultures,
Insects and maybe reptiles are essentially beasts,
birds and larger mammals appear to have their own languages, but no signs of tool use or architecture.
And now this picture up-thread suggesting squirrels and chipmunks use tools, though apparently more primitive ones.
What else is known?
>>43974524
>14
>Skyrim
this seems relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uECjdRZVjjw
>>43966713
Where did you get this? I wanted to buy a boxed set too but they were OOP and outrageously priced last I checked
>>44035206
skyrim came out 4 years ago anon...
can someone share a scan please
