SoB are basically squatted edition.
SoB deserve a DE style update sub-edition.
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>never have to work
>realise it's the twilight time when Americans aren't on to help keep threads going
>realise it's a weekday so lots of people are at work
>realise it's nighttime for Aussies and Co
This is the magical hour... Where death visits.....
>>43962855
>realise it's a weekday so lots of people are at work
Where do you think you are? NEET central
I have read here many times that BA were seriously nerfed with the new codex. Can someone help a new player understand what they have lost?
![Dow2_ork_warboss_portrait[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Z33iIDo.png "Dow2_ork_warboss_portrait[1].png")
>>43962799
Dis fred now belongs to da orkZ.
>ork codex when
Would've been first had had it not been for that mass shooting. dun dun dun dun dun . another one bites the dust.plenty of dakka in cali despite the gun laws har har har
SoB as a faction don't have enough going for them to be their own faction. We already have several codexes for dudes in power armour supported by Rhino-chassis vehicles that specialize in short range shooting.
An agents of the Ecclesiarchy supplement for Imperials that included SoB would be neat.
>>43962927
>SoB update
ya git got a pdf update, be happy with what you did get.....................a warlord trait table
>>43962927
Same could be said for most of the marine variants.
>>43962866
Yeah, but, even NEET's need to sleep.
>>43962889
Sanguinary Priests are HQ's, not Elites.
Assault Troops are Fast Attack, not Troops.
Death Company lost -1WS and are Elite.
Mephiston lost -1T -1S and Master-Crafted weapons iirc.
Vehicles lost Scout
Blood Talons are Shred
No Unique Flyers
Lemartes is an Elite choice and doesn't become free with DC.
Astaroth and Dante are the only viable characters.
Vanilla and Space Furrys get Chapter Master generics (which can be built better than Lord of Wars)
Vanilla and Dark Angels get A4 base Dreads. Space Furrys, GK's and BA are A2.
Force Glaive is Specialist Weapon
Relics are fucking awful, terrible.
Shield of Baal relics are even worse, which would be commendable if it wasn't so soul destroying.
No dedicated AA.
No Grav Cents.
No Grav Devs.
No Stormtalons.
Probably more but I can't think.
>>43962946
No arguments here. Blood Angels and Dark Angels should be rolled back into Codex: Space Marines.
>>43962935
Don't forget removing a special character and making his gear a relic! Don't forget making Acts of Faith a single use thing, making Retributors, one of the best units in the dex, shit and unable to kill anything due to no more Rending Heavy Bolters. Don't forget Saint Celestine can no longer come back to life constantly to troll you. Oh and don't forget Death Cult Assassins get changed to Power Swords, not Power Weapons (which the rules in BRB said mean WYSIWYG, meaning you used to be able to put Power Axe + Power Sword, making them a decent unit, especially with 5 Crusaders to roll on their T4 and WS5 instead of T3 WS4 or something). What else? Oh yeah, Repressors only have 2 fire slots, which thankfully FW changed back to 4, when they were asked during a Q&A the FW guy said "Look at the [fucking] model it has 4 windows on it, so it's 4 fire ports".
So on, so forth. But I suppose global 6++ is fun.
>>43962978
Spotted the Space Furfag and or Grey Knight KGB MI6 CIA fag.
>>43963006
I didn't forget any of that, I just never cared to learn it.....its SoB....
>>43962927
>SoB as a faction don't have enough going for them to be their own faction. We already have several codexes for dudes in power armour supported by Rhino-chassis vehicles that specialize in short range shooting.
Take a look at their artwork, there is plenty.
If they'd gotten any updates they'd be far more than just yet another power armor unit with some sarissas on their bolters.
>>43962799
>SoB are basically squatted edition.
>SoB deserve a DE style update sub-edition.
Did something happen?
>>43963013
I'm against mixing the BA and DA codices too, but he does have a point, at least partially. Both BA and DA would need much less changes to become part of the vanilla dex, while the SW have their Wolf Guard as sergeants of the squads, their Blood/Swift/Skyclaws and Scouts, without forgetting the actual wolves, while the GK are a codex full of psychics and with something like 2-3 non-vehicle units that are comparable to the vanilla ones
Tell me about the first models you built, and the comedy options you took. I recently decided to try to get my old blood angels into some sort of table-ready condition, but have discovered a lot of them have some really silly loadouts because younger me just built them in a way that I thought looked cool. Highlights include:
>Death company with every single power sword, fist, thunder hammer and inferno pistol on the sprue meaning the unit would be like 350 points for 10 marines.
>Assault sergeant with power axe and combat shield.
>Devastator sergeant with power fist and plasma pistol. On a DEVASTATOR sergeant for crying out load.
>More plasma pistols and power fists on tactical sergeants
>Furioso dread with blood talons (although this is partially the fault of the new codex, I still don't know why I didn't build a DC dread for blender purposes)
It's not all bad, pistols are easy enough to cut off and bolt pistols/hand flamers put in their place for example, and some sergeants can just be bolter marines with different colour helmets, but still.
Anyone else do anything like this when they were just getting into the hobby and hadn't read up on the internet yet of what not to do? Tell me of your monstrosities, /tg/.
>>43963095
My group doesn't play, or isn't very strict on wysiwyg. I actually prefer to play against models that looked completely pimped out. I had a similar situation with my BA Death Company. I gave them all Jump packs, and dual plasma pistols. Yeah they looked cool........but I think that each model costed 50 or so points as it was modeled. What was I thinking?
>>43963125
I want to make these, though with the Inferno pistols and/or hand flamers
>>43962978
Its too late for that now, but only because they got full fledged updates. Too many Unique units. Unless they roll them in/Sanguinary counts as Vanguard/pull a Black Templar
>>43963082
>Did something happen
They were mentioned at the end of Kauyon arriving with IG, AdMech, Titans and Space Marines to fight the Tau, then Mont'ka arrived and they were the only ones missing.
>>43963092
So, Death Company, Furisuo Dreads, Lib Dreads, Fast Tanks, Sanguinary Priests and so on should just go to the vanilla because....? How should that be any different to the Space Furfags?
>>43963095
I habitually include at least one model in every army I build that's dual-wielding something ridiculous, like two thunder hammers or two power klaws.My SW army includes a sergeant with wolves for hands
>>43963082
>Did something happen?
It was the main topic of the last thread
>>43962855
>wish I could work
>realize I have two to four more months off work
>realize my shoulder hurts after each layer of my bike sized models
>realize I will get more models for Christmas so I don't buy my own.
Its the MOST MAG-I-CAL time of the year!Send help, my second army will be done next week and attempting to teach my girlfriend 40k makes me think it would be easier to face myself.
>>43963035
STOP HATING ON SOB YOU BULLY!
>>43963149
Ideally, I'd do a Codex: Chapters of the Adeptes Astartes, which would just be a supplement that contained unique Chapter Tactics, special units, and relics for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, plus a couple other chapters.
BA could get Death Company and Furioso Dreads, DA get Ravenwing Knights and the Darkshroud. Apothecaries become an Elites choice for regular SM, the DA flyer becomes the strike fighter for all astartes, and you add a couple units to Codex: Space Marines that can't be used if you run a Chapter Tactics from outside the codex.
>>43963188
Does she like Nids? I asked my sister about Nids, she used to collect Nurgle Chaos Spess Muhreens (The Cleaved, I think?) due to her BF but stopped cause she couldn't stand the smell in GW, and she said she doesn't like Nids. I asked why does she think girls like them and she said "I dunno, they're dinosaurs with skin?" or something like that. I asked her if she thought they were cute and she shook her head and said "They're not". So...
I want to see if this meme is just not applicable to her.
>>43963194
What about Lib Dreads? Sanguinary Priests? Fast Vehicles? Sanguinary Guard?
>>43963149
BA are much more developed than BT in terms of models. Furthermore, BA are one of the best selling ranges of all time. There is a reason Karlean got released as a non-Deathstorm model and they got a unique Chaplain.
>>43963218
>Lib Dreads
Just make them an upgrade to the Furioso.
>Sanguinary Priests
Apothecaries become a regular unit for Space Marines.
>Fast vehicles.
Either bundle it into their Chapter Tactics as an upgrade they can take, or drop it entirely.
>Sanguinary Guard
Make artificer armor an option for vanguard vets.
>>43963239
You do realise this is very unlikely to happen, especially since BA sell so well, right?
>>43963194
So your solution is to butcher them until they are unrecognisable?
Cool man.
>>43963239
>>Sanguinary Guard
>Make artificer armor an option for vanguard vets.
Do you realize that Sanguinary guard are Honour Guards with jump packs?
>>43963252
People hate BA/DA being their own codex. But Space Furrys are OK to be their own ;)
>>43963205
I have an Ork and Dark Angel army and she liked the Orks way more than any space marine she looked at.
She read the fluff in the codex over the last week but afterwards I had her read the rules and after a day she gave it back and said:
"I had no idea a board game could be this in depth, I can't handle it."
I told her we can start small or simple armies, I even offered to buy her HQ and first two troops.
That brought her back around and she checked out GW's site. What I remember the few she critiqued:
>IG - Why not just buy army men
topkek
>Tau - Reminds me of Gundams
She is not wrong
>Eldar and Dark Eldar - She said they looked like Halo..
wut.
>Space Marines - Lame
Which is weird because she is leaning towards Space Wolves
>Space Wolves - OMG PUPPIES
got em
>Tyranid - I dont like these
She doesn't like spiders so maybe she that got triggered.
She likes to paint and has painted models for me a few times. For Christmas among other things I am getting her a Thunderwolf Lord and two boxes of Grey Hunters or something.
Good thing is she wants Thunderwolf Cavalry
Bad thing is if it was up to her she would make a formation of White Tide featuring 100+ Fenarian Wolves
>>43963161
I also have a few death company with dual chainswords, but I'm okay with that. I'm clearly not on your level though. Shine on, you crazy diamond.
>>43963125
It's not so much for my opponent that I want to get them wysiwyg, (and I don't want to kick of that argument again,) the problem is *I* tend to forget what my stuff is armed with if the models are wrong. So it's to my benefit to convert the models is they're going to have different loadouts.
>>43963246
I never said it was likely. I never even said it was a course of action GW would ever take.
>>43963271
Well, at least she likes the puppies as actual dogs, not Space Furfaggotry.
>>43963261
>>43963252
Space Wolves at least have the core units changed up. The core of Blood Angels and Dark Angels is the same as Codex: Space Marines.
>>43963256
I'd give Honour Guard the option to take Bikes, Jump Packs, and Terminator armor too.
>>43963271
>she liked the Orks
Keeper tier.
>>43963304
Changed up? You mean renamed with some gimmick just like every other unit?
>>43963239
Bland bland bland bland.
I'm all for folding Blood Angels in if it means they get updated more, but excuse me your ideas are fucking horrible.
>>43963261
Yes. Because they are almost nothing like vanilla marines you idiot. Have you actually read their codex?
>>43963335
They're more unique than either of the Angels codexes. BA and DA can be rolled into Codex: Space Marines without sacrificing anything. Wolves would need a disproportionate amount of space in any sort of combined codex in order to not cut off actually distinct options.
>>43963372
>Grey Hunters
Tacticals.
>Long Fangs
Devestators
>Blood Claws
Assault Marines on foot
>Skyclaws
Assault Marines with Jet Packs at worse WS
>Swiftclaws
Bikers.
The only unique thing they have is Thunder Wolf Cavalry.
So in my biker army, should I bother with Attack Bikes? If so, how do I use them, rolled into bike squads, squads of their own or rolling solo?
>>43963372
>BA and DA can be rolled into Codex: Space Marines without sacrificing anything
And how is this any different to Space Wolves? Thunder Wolf Cavalry can just be an upgrade for Bikers! See, what's wrong with that? Just combine it. The rest are just renamed Tactical/Assault/Bike squads anyway. Give everybody the ability to get a Terminator Sergeant!
>>43963414
Fenrisian Wolves, Stormfang Gunship, Stormwolf Transport, Venerable Dreadnought with Storm Shield (it's not a vanilla option)
That's off the top of my head, though honestly that's not so much that it'd be impossible to roll SW into one big Marine codex alongside all the other power armoured armies.Yes it would even include SoB
>>43963414
>Grey Hunters
>Wolf Guard
>Fenrisian Wolves
>Thunderwolf Cavalry
>Veteran Scouts
They've also got their wolfship, but the whole "every astartes chapter has their own super secret flying machine" has always been retarded.
>>43963434
I'm starting to think you are just shitposting to piss off marine players. In which case good job, it's working.
>>43963452
>Stormfang Gunship, Stormwolf Transport
Every faction bar GK and BA have 2 unique flyers. So, no, that's not good enough.
>not a vanilla option
BUT IT CAN BE AN UPGRADE :D Just like all the stuff BA and DA have which aren't a fucking option! :D
>>43963454
Grey Hunters? So what. Just renamed Tacticals. They're basically the same with better CQC ability. Just make them an upgrade! Wolf Guard? Just give everybody the option to upgrade! Fenrisian Wolves? Give everybody a unique pet to use! Thunderwolf Cav as Bike Upgrades! Veteran Scouts?! Just like Black Templar had different Scouts? Well, they got merged, so in you fucking go.
>>43963460
Nope. I'm annoyed that the idea that BA and DA can be merged with vanilla because "they're the same" and somehow Space Wolves aren't. Everything that has been brought up that's different has just be dismissed as "make it an upgrade!" see >>43963239 >>43963304
>>43963434
>Thunder Wolf Cavalry can just be an upgrade for Bikers
Different unit types.
> Give everybody the ability to get a Terminator Sergeant!
Not really analogous to giving everyone apothecaries. It's never made sense that apothecaries are only available to C:SM in Command Squads.
>>43963511
Because you "it can just be an upgrade you guys!" approach would blandify the shit out of the factions and stop people playing them.
I don't know why you don't see this it's not hard.
>>43963511
>Grey Hunters? So what. Just renamed Tacticals.
Different base wargear plus different options.
>Black Templars
More unique than BA/DA. If those two get unique codexes, BT should as well.
>>43963563
Not enough players. What was the BT codex like out of question?
>>43963530
No fucking shit, that's my fucking point. Why the fuck do they want BA and DA combined and then make them all a fucking upgrade? That's my point. I'm lampooning the approach that "oh they're the same just make all these unique things they have an upgrade, but the unique things that the Space Wolves have? Nah, they're totally unique and not at all similar, so they stay on their own"
>>43963515
And? So what? Librarian Dread is a different as it's a Pysker. But that's an upgrade. The guy thought the analogue of Sanguinary Guard was Vanguard.
Oh but it is, it's something unique that the BA do, but that should be available to everybody! But the Wolf Guard don't have to be ;) What bout Red Scorpions? They can put Apothecaries in Tacts instead of Sergeants, so that should be available to everybody!
Let's just homogenise everything.
>>43963572
There is their codex in the mega
>>43963563
>different wargear and options
Just like Sanguinary Guard, but they should be an upgrade to Vanguards! Even thou their analogue is Honour Guard (but without lots of options! ;))
I'm pretty sure this advocates for BA and DA being combined are funposting. There is noway they can be this delusional that their dex is somehow completely unique compared to vanilla and BA and DA aren't. So, they should be combined too or not. Ignoring the fact BA are one of GW's best selling lines of all time. Grey Knights should be different ones only. Rest should be combined.
>>43963578
Right sorry I misread you.
Um... +1 to this post.
>>43963586
Right cheers.
>>43963578
>But that's an upgrade
I specifically mentioned it would be an upgrade to the Furioso Dread as a BA- Chapter Tactics restricted unit.
BA/DA do have unique options, and they should keep those options. They just don't have enough unique shit to get an entire codex. Not when they share the majority of their units. You can easily roll them into a combined codex without losing anything.
>>43963603
Is there some proof of all the claims of "Army X is selling well/bad"?
Obviously for the ones selling bad you can make the argument that "Almost nobody plays it" -> "Almost nobody buys it", but it should be more difficult to guess for the opposite end of the spectrum
>>43963603
My pet theory is it's fans of ecclesiarchy factions that are the problem.
>Butthurt BT players funpost about BA and DA
>Butthurt SoB player funposts about DE and AOS
>>43963587
Actually, my argument was to cut Sanguinary Guard entirely because they're just honor guard with jump packs. See >>43963304 .
>>43963603
I'm not a Space Wolf player, and this has nothing to do with how well the BA sell. It's entirely about the fact that BA/DA are functional reprints of Codex: Space Marines with a few extra units tacked on.
>>43962927
Then they should make them a mini dex thingie like Harlies Skiitari and CultMech.
Neither has more than a handful of units.
Grrr.
>>43963415
Anyone?Or should I come back when we're not all arguing which factions deserve a codex
>>43963638
I think GW admitted when the BA came out for 5th, it was their best selling new release or something. It was in a Q&A session. It's also supported by the new stuff they've gotten recently. Termy Captain and Unique Jetpack Chaplain.
>>43963655
That's if we go on last thread. Shitposting about AoS is like shooting a blind and deaf quadriplegic while it screams "PLEASE STOP!". I hate it, leave AoS alone. It's the best of a bad situation, I'd rather it existed and support continued than not. The new Dorfs look ace as well. So that helps.
Also, I want SoB to get a DE style megaupdate, but I know it won't happen yet. If I was GW, I would keep the crumbs dropping to players like myself going, but never update it till most of the SoB stuff is sold out. Which can't be THAT long away. The Immolator is sold out and they've been for sale for 15 years.
>>43963684
Unless it's a multimelta attached to bikers with meltaguns, probably on their own. The guns aren't really suited to the same targets otherwise.Hrud codex when?
>>43962951
>Blood Talons are Shred
Any BA faggot who thinks this is an unjust nerf can go kill themselves and deserves their garbage codex.
>>43963710
>BA came out for 5th
Which was when they shit in the current metal boxes meta so hard BA was basically unstoppable.
Then grey knights came out and BA players lost themselves to the black rage.
>>43963661
And Space Wolves are functional reprints of Codex: Space Marines with a few extra units tacked on.
The only truly unique thing you have is Wolves. Everything else is something that could easily be applied to other chapters.
I mean, fuck, look at the arguments here, >>43963563 >>43963452
Literally saying cause they have two unique flyers, they should be unique. Okay, cool, then Dark Angels should be unique too, as they have two unique flyers. The Venerable Dreadnought is a Venerable Dreadnought with a Stormshield. That's it. If that's somehow unique enough to be separate, then Furisuo and Lib Dreads are also unique enough to be separate.
>>43963710
Imagine what a jes Goodwin style overhaul would look like.
>>43963717
It was. Get over it.
>>43963717
The guy asked how it was nerfed, not whether it was warranted or not. I gave them the answer he looked for.
>>43963733
Yup, but they still sold well despite all that. Fish of Fury also existed at the time. Lots of nerfs were warranted, but not to the extremes GW did it.
The irony is that if chaos space marines were rolled into codex space marines just with different "chapter tactics" and a few extra units some people would be delighted.
>>43963738
>then Furisuo and Lib Dreads are also unique enough to be separate
You dense motherfucker, for the third time, I'm saying to keep them separate. They just don't need an entire codex to do that.
You've failed to actually provide any arguments as to what unique options would be cut by my proposed changes; all you've done is try to deflect by babbling about Space Wolves. Get rekt, you fanny-flustered vampfag.
>>43963712
I thought so. So should I squad them up to go melt shit at longer ranges? Wouldn't a command squad be better for that?
Or should I, if I have the slots, just slap a solo biker down and use him as an annoying distraction that melts transports if he's ignored?>Hrud
Mah nigga
>>43962951
>Force Glaive is Specialist Weapon
Why is that a bad thing? That means they have 2 Specialist weapons (with the Power Fist)
Everything else, yeah, totes agree with. Blood Talons used to be absolutely fucking amazing and made me regret going Space Wolves... Now, I'm really glad I did, because our Dreadnoughts are now the only tactically viable ones in the game.
>>43963770
Chaos Reneagades should be a supplement for Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Then C:CSM is freed up to actually be about traitor legionnaires and other highly-corrupt groups of astartes.
>>43963770
This entire argument is fucking dumb and has gone on long enough.
Nothing we say here is going to change a thing either. If there is one thing we can count on GW doing it's keeping everything separate, because money.
>>43963770
Jesus christ fuck no, anything but that.
We have lived in their shadow as just 'maruines with spikey bitz' for entire edtitions.
The current dex was brilliant when it came out, and still would be if Tau/Eldar/Necron power creep didn't happen
People seem to hate the dinobots but they, like the Defiler give Chaos it's own unique shit so you feel like you're actually playing a unique army.
I have faith in the upcoming dex. Does Vetock still work for gw? He always does good shit.
>>43963793
>our Dreadnoughts are now the only tactically viable ones in the game
>what is the Deredeo
Would having all SM rolled into the codex work if each then got a fair sized supplement that adds on?
For example, the Blood Angels Supp would change Assualt marines to troops, include inferno pistols and hand flamers as ranged weapons, and give you access to Death Company. Plus sheets on all the unique Heros.
>>43963816
No that would butcher them.
Let's talk about something else anyway.
Anyone played that Path to Glory thing yet?
>>43963810
>The current dex was brilliant when it came out
The fuck are you babbling about? Our marines were subpar as soon as they released, half the cult units were crap as soon as they released, already subpar units got nerfed even further, half the new units were crap, our psyhic disciplines are shit, etc.
I'm all for new daemon engines, just make them look like a melding of machine and daemon. Not machines shaped like dinosaurs.
>>43963738
Except I was saying the exact opposite
Geez, learn reading comprehension you incompetent fucknuckle
>>43963815
I meant, without going Forgeworld. But, yeah, you are right, those things are pretty sweet. But Ven-Dreads with Axe+Shield are amazing for how much they cost. 145 points and it'll easily eat a 350 point Daemon Prince in melee... Or, at least, I've yet to have one lose to a Daemon Prince, when the playing field was even (A fresh one came in from reserve and took down one that had had the Great Frost Axe blown off of it.) Seriously, all we need to do is make it a T7 Monsterous Creature and it'd be fucking broken.
>>43963738
The fact is that basically every unit in the SW codex would need an at least slight change from the SM 'dex to not modify them, while BA and DA have a higher number of units that are the same.
Just to give an example the Wolf Priest gives different bonuses to the unit than the vanilla one, while the DA and BA are the same.
And that's not considering the great number of options the SW can take that are different from the normal ones, like the frost weapons, the wolf claw or the runic armour
Do we have a full scan of Imperial Armor 11 update running around anywhere?
I know we have photos of the corsair list, but we don't have the SW stuff or regular eldar stuff
>>43963773
Actually, no. You've failed to provide any argument on why Space Wolves are unique enough to be on their own.
>Get rekt, you fanny-flustered vampfag.
Oh, shitposting... Fuck sake, what a waste of my time. Also I mentioned Dark Angels as well, how am I vampfag? I'm not the same guy who also thinks you're a retard, I'm >>43963603
>>43963882
So? Why can't the options be an upgrade like everything else? As somebody else said, they're gimmicks.
>>43963095
>no one around me ever played so I just painted models
>since I wasn't adhering to points everyone got to be cool
>Necron army
>I had painting immortals not long ago, red highlights instead of green
>got some Lychguard
>had 5 Deathmark heads
>so I made 5 Lychguards with Deathmark heads
>instead of golden shoulder pads they got black
>>43963882
>need a slight change
Find and replace "Grey Hunters" with "Tactical Squad," "Long Fangs" with "Devastator Squad," etc. Tie their unique upgrades to the Space Wolves chapter tactics. Do Wolf Priests the same way as Sanguinary Priests and Interrogator Chaplains. Merging SW wouldn't be any harder than BA or DA would.
>>43963928
You're basically saying that every option option of the codex should have "This unit has this stats and this rules... unless you're using the SW chapter tactics, in which case use this stats and this rules", all the while having an additional chapter of the armory only for the SW options. At this point giving them their own codex is just the simpler option
I'm not saying that BA and DA should be rolled in the vanilla codex, I'm against it but, except for the GK (that are, even fluffwise, SM only because of their geneseed, because everything else is different), the SW are definitely the most different codex from the vanilla one by far
>>43963989
>BA tactical get heavy flamers
>SW tactical get cc weapons
So different
>>43962799
I'm thinking about getting my Dark Angels friend a gift for the holidays. Any recommendations for something he could use?
He has a fairly small force right now. Just a command squad, some bikes, and a couple tacticals.
>>43962799
Hey folks Eldar player here.
My friend plays scions (like, solo) and said he wants a 2000pt game this weekend. Now I run a fluffy guardian battlehost but... I don't want to stomp him. I want to give him a chance you know?
So what should I avoid bringing? As in what can scions just NOT deal with?
Also any other tips would be appreciated.
Cheers folks.
>>43964006
>SW Wolf Guard Pack Leader may take Terminator Armour
>BA Sergeant can take...
You're right, they're exactly the same
>>43963989
Except, not really. Either they're kept the way they are, or they're all combined, bar GK's.
Or, you could understand that having uniqueness is something that players like. That's why there are a dozen or so additional rules + special characters for other chapters by Forge World.
>>43964017
HQ?
Deathwing or Ravenwing?
Battleforce is like $80 on ebay and gives you a Ravenwing command squad,attack bike and land speeder. That is an Attack Squadron and the first half of a bad ass command squad.
>>43964033
>BA can take Librarian Dreads.
>SW can take Lib... Wait, no... Venerable are unique, right? No? They're not? Okay... Um... They get unique weapons, that's enough, right? But fuck Sanguinary Guard, they're not unique enough.
>BA can put Sanguinary Priests in their units
>SW can.....?????
>Deathwing and Ravenwing for DA
>SW get Swiftclaws, but that's way more unique than Ravenwing, fuck Deathwing, they're just upgrades for Termies!
Etc. But here is the part where you go "that's not a unique gimmick enough, but the other stuff is cause it's for my favourite faction"
>>43964033
>SW Wolf Guard Pack Leader may take Terminator Armour
>BA Sergeant can take Inferno pistols and hand flamers
They are you retard.
>>43964054
I think he uses a Librarian or some other generic HQ choice.
So far he seems to be going for Ravenwing, although it's really just the bikes.
He's got a pretty nice command squad already.
>>43964024
Don't take jetbikes, d weapon wraithguard or wraithknights. Also don't take D support weapon batteries.
Suddenly eldar aren't complete WAAC bullshit
>>43964107
Wasn't taking any of those things.
Anything else?
>>43964104
A pretty nice Ravenwing Command Squad is a full command squad. Apoth, Champ, Banner, Grenade launchers. All the gubbins.
That being said does he have atleast two units of three bikes? if so maybe tell him to work towards a Support Squadron with a Darkshroud and three Land Speeders. It is an amazing formation.
>>43963816
Marine chapters really don't need to be anymore than a supplement. Being rolled into the main codex is the best you can hope for unless you like waiting 5+ years for updates.
>>43964024
Why do you need to ask? It's not like you need half a brain to figure out not to bring D strength or scatbike spam. Literally anything else is fine.
>>43963928
>Actually, no. You've failed to provide any argument on why Space Wolves are unique enough to be on their own.
I never gave a shit about SW, I only talked about them because you and your ilk thought bitching about Wolves would disguise the fact that you didn't have any actual valid criticisms of my changes.
>>43964054
>>43964126
That sounds like a good idea. I'll try and pick up a few landspeeders for him.
Thanks for the help!
>>43964145
Well I heard /tg/ saying they were the worst army in the game and I was afraid they wouldn't be able to handle wraithlords or wave serpents or psykers.
I don't want to roflstomp him is all.
>>43964049
Did you miss reading the part about me being against merging the codices? I have absolutely no problems with keeping the BA and DA codices, on the contrary I would be absolutely fine with having more codices, even one for every chapter in the vanillaas a pure idea, obviously, because if it was applied the already barely balanced game would get even worse and if an army needed an upgrade it would have to wait many years to have it.
The thing I'm arguing about is against the idea that SW may be added to the vanilla 'dex without many changes, not that DA and BA should be added. Fuck, DA is one of the armies I play.
I'm not saying that they don't have unique options, just that SW have units that are more different than their from the Vanilla ones
>>43964076
>>43964102
Refer to the first part of this post, and that previous post was only as an answer to the idea that Grey Hunters were nothing more than tacticals with cc weaponsAnd saying that taking a melta pistol or a flamer is the same as giving one model terminator armour is bullshit
>>43964149
Land speeders are super easy to find second hand, you would be better off getting him a Darkshroud which is ~50-60 off ebay. Landspeeders are ~20-30 ea as well.
>>43964194
I'll keep that in mind.
>>43964179
>And saying that taking a melta pistol or a flamer is the same as giving one model terminator armour is bullshit
They still are a differente options, of which the BA have two and the SW have one. The fact that they have a different effect in game it's irrelevant, otherwise it would be bullshit that heavy bolters and Grav Cannons with Grav-amps are both heavy weapons.
>>43964148
Okay, how's this.
Merging the divergent codices must result in either a loss of the unique flavours of BA, DA, and SW, a stupidly expensive 400+ page clusterfuck of a codex, or, most likely, both. Single army players get a bunch of shit they neither want nor need. In return, the common units are on even footing. Which FAQ should be doing. Nobody gains anything from merging them.
>>43964179
You're still advocating this idea that SW are unique enough to be separate for BA and DA are not.
This is not true. They might be "more unique" (I'll play devils avocado here) but not unique enough.
You're going "Termy Sarges are more unique than the unique thing that BA do" is the whole point of this argument.
>>43963271
> if it was up to her she would make a formation of White Tide featuring 100+ Fenarian Wolves
>Bad thing
Anon, that's not bad, that's fucking awesome.
>>43964206
I second the Support Squadron, it is a must for any Ravenwing Army.
If you are not familar with it let me catch you up -
Ravenwings within 24"that get charged can get overwatch from this formation.
Grim Resolve so they have the Stubborn rule unless Jinking so they fire at BS2 in overwatch. Besides if they ARE Jinking they are all Ravenwing so they just reroll jinks...
Furthermore the shrine on the back of the Darkshroud gives Fear and Stealth within 6" and in the same distance prevents overwatch.
All those fuckers have shroud too.
Yeah Shroud and Stealth....
The three landspeeders each have double heavy bolters so they have a fair amount of dakka to pump into overwatch.
>>43964148
So, shitposting? Cool.
Also, "bitching bout Wolves" started when the guy went "BA and DA should be merged, but SW shouldn't".
I've given plenty, just because YOU don't view them as good enough isn't my problem.
Hows this then, chucklefuck, you shitposting pimple on the anus of humanity.
1. Even if you cut out everything unique and slammed it into the vanilla codex, it would push it, easily, to 300+ pages. Current one is like 180 or something iirc.
2. What about fluff? Does that get bunged in as well? Well, then that's 400+ pages then.
3. GW printing a 100 odd page codex costs us $50, so, even if we didn't multiple it by 4, would easily cost $100+. No, piracy isn't an option in this argument.
4. The Space Marine page on the website will become a fucking clusterfuck.
5. People will moan like shit.
6. People will demand FW Chapter Tactics are merged into vanilla codex as well. I want apothecaries instead of sergeants for free in all my chapters, not just Red Scorpions, fuck their gimmick.
7. Players will complain as to why Space Wolves are left out and point out every other fucking thing that MULTIPLE people have pointed out.
8. GW will lose customers and since BA are supposed to be a good seller, would be suicide for them. The reason they ARE separate, is because people wanted them to be.
Your changes had no leg to stand on the fucking moment you mentioned them, because it could be summed up as "Space Wolves are way more unique than BA or DA and thus deserve to be stand alone, while BA and DA unique shit should just be options!".
So, how bout you come up with a better reason for their separation, taking into account everything that has been fucking said instead of being a shitposting cunt who had no reason to enter the argument other than to shitpost.
>>43964159
well they're not the worst army but they are rather limited but have tons of ap2/3 guns with little long ranged weapons.
>>43964351
>The reason they ARE separate, is because people wanted them to be.
This. GW is not going to do something that would blatantly and irrevocably cause half the playerbase of their bestselling SM models to quit. Say what you will about them, but they're not fucking stupid.
Individual Marine codices make more money. For that reason and that reason alone, BA, DA, SW, and GK will never be merged into Codex: Space Marines.
>>43964218
Except it's not much 2 vs 1 as much as 3 vs 10, more or less, since the options for ranged and melee weapons for SW are really different, being less for the first (3 vs 6 for BA and 5 for SM) and more and different for the second (8 vs 5, with frost weapons and wolf claws), so claiming that you can use the options to claim their different for the BA but not for the SW doesn't really work.
>>43964276
I'm not really saying that BA and DA aren't different enough, I'm just saying that if for whatever reason you are forced to merge one or more of the SM codices in the vanilla one SW should be the third pick, since it has enough different option that would make the vanilla codex a clusterfuck to write
>>43964159
Trust me, clever MT players can handle Wraithlords. Wraithknights, not so much, but Lords are doable.
Wave Serpents are not anywhere near the bullshit they used to be, so go ahead and take them.
There's nothing preventing him allying in a Guard formation or a Culexus for psyker support/murder.
If he's masochistic enough to play Imperial Deldar, he can take what you dish out.
>>43964302
White Tide Formation -
Must Take:
6 Full units of Fenrisian Wolves
1 Thunderwolf Lord
Open Slots:
2 Elite 1 Heavy
All Fenrisian Wolves must form one group.
Release The Hounds: Your Fenrisian Wolves units add 3" to their maximum move distance when they run and make charge moves.
Leader of the Pack:
Friendly Fenrisian Wolves within 12" of your Thunderwolf Lord in this formation re-roll failed Morale, Pinning and Fear tests as well as gain Relentless and Counter AttackI would play this
>>43964368
>>43964407
Ok cheers guys. Makes me feel better.
>>43963304
>honour guard on bikes
I need it
>>43964440
I like it, but what does Relentless do for Fenrisian Wolves? Why not Rage or Furious Charge?
>>43964440
Why no Thunderwolves (or at least some fast slots to take them)?
>>43964382
Okay, but, as pointed out, you could claim X or Y is a reason to be unique. BA put more care into their Apothecaries than any other chapter, with Red Scorpions a second, but they don't give a shit bout the Apothecaries personally, only that the geneseed is recovered. That's a unique thing. Space Wolves are Werewolves in Space. Blood Angels are Vampires in Space. Dark Angels are Knights of Malta in Space.
>>43964440
This and a CAD with another TW Lord and some TWC would be pretty playable, and also fucking awesome because holy shit, the table's covered in giant wolves.
>>43964440
>>43964467
Also they already have counterattack
I'd be okay-ish with Blood Angels being rolled into the SM codex if our Chapter Tactics give us army wide Furious Charge, Overcharged engines, and Assault Marines as troops.
>>43964440
>875 sans wargear
>90 wolves
>No slot for TWC
>Still get Long Fangs
Not terrible besides the whole wolves suck thing
>Friendly Fenrisian Wolves within 12" of your Thunderwolf Lord in this formation re-roll failed Morale, Pinning and Fear tests as well as gain Relentless and Counter Attack
Relentless does nothing, they don't shoot.
Who would charge a pack of 90 wolves for Counter attack?
>The Green Tide
I would watch that.
>>43964440
>Open Slots:
>
>2 Elite 1 Heavy
The way formation design has been going, you either have battlefield role slots or specific units you have to take, not both. You could make it 0-3 choices from a list, where the list includes thunderwolf cav, the ICs (On Thunderwolf Only), etc, though.
>>43964467
>>43964478
>>43964514
Woops I totally meant Rage, not relentless I just woke up.
Sure lets give them furious charge, totally forgot they have counterattack.
![warhammer_40k_fanart___sad_ork_by_good_ol_boy[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bdZ8CXH.jpg "warhammer_40k_fanart___sad_ork_by_good_ol_boy[1].jpg")
>>43963330
>mfw no qt 3.14 Asian gf to loot things with
>>43963149
Simple, give it teh black templar treatment; the land raider crusader belongs to everyone now, and crusader squads+characters are bound to chapter tactics
>>43964110
Your fine then, scions can kill TEQ and MEQ and vehicles easily. They struggle with hordes if they didn't take any rocket pods, but then again if the guy has minigun tauroxes, he's fine.
>>43964159
>I heard /tg/ saying
You probably heard one butthurt WAAC meta netlister saying the army was shit.
>Try out some melee commanders with some bodyguards, a few ghostkeels and a riptide/ionhead
>necron roommate brings min squads of destroyer cult, 2 ghost arks with warriors in them, and tomb blades in a decurion with the stalker giving +1 bs to all
god fucking damnit
>>43964472
It's more for the reason that, while having unique units, BA and DA have some units that are basically the same, except for the generic options (ranged, melee, heavy etc.), while the SW have many more different options, with the only options that are rather similar to the vanilla ones, as far as I can remember now, are librarians and tacticals (without considering the whole Terminator thing). Just look at the scouts, that are ridiculously different, both in the scouts themselveseven if right now they are just basically overcosted not-objsec normal scoutand the unit that represent the neophyte of the chapter, just to give an example.
I repeat, I was just arguing that the SW are the once that shouldn't be merged more than the others, not that the BA or DA are not unique enough to have their own codices
>>43964574
>You probably heard one butthurt WAAC meta netlister saying the army was shit.
This is /tg/, friend. It's far more likely he heard one butthurt anti-WAAC crybaby complaining Eldar were OP, because anything more powerful than blood angels is broken and unfair.
>>43964528
Let's go the last extra mile and give all of them rending360 S5 rending attacks. I think I just came
>>43964578
>melee tau commanders
>tau melee
delicious idea for your foe but all those flamers would be rather painful
>>43964581
But if their Scouts are unique, which is fine thing to say, then why were Black Templars combined? The only thing that is truly unique and isn't a gimmicked up vanilla unit are the wolves. But no codex can get Lib Dreads bar BA, and in turn, they cannot get Ironclads, but get Furisuos.
>>43964611
And they say Orks roll lots of dice.
If somebody fielded this, they would win. Even if they were tabled by massed scatterlaser, they would still win.
On the topic of SW, their battleforce isn't available anymore on the GW site
So, I'm playing necrons and am getting ready for an apoc game, and was thinking of picking up a toy for use in Apoc since my opponents plan to bring a LoW each, and I don't know about my allies.
Assuming my opponents don't let me play with the pylon like it used to work in 6E like I've heard FW has suggested in emails or the Transcendant C'tan out of the apoc book, what is the better necron trinket for an apoc game- the Obelisk or the Tesseract Vault? While I'm not a big fan of the always random powers of the C'tan, it seems more viable with the Tesseract Vault's profiles for it, but it is also a screaming metal death trap.
Or should I avoid them and just go for a full cheese army, since I will be playing against LoW?
>>43964581
>while the SW have many more different options,
The SW "different options" are in most cases a change of name and a sergeant that can take terminator armor.
>no SoB update EVER
>no way to model pic related
>>43964620
Tau actually have the ability to melee Necrons quite well. Just RPs are fucking bullshit
>>43964701
i'm gonna defer to you since i don't know tau well or play the game much but it seems like going against the grain
>>43964692
I'm still having trouble with my Skitarii conversion, myself.
>>43964627
Frankly speaking, no SM codex go beyond the "gimmicks", forced as they are to be WS/BS/S/R/I 4 for almost all of their units, so it's the gimmicks that make a SM codex different from the other. After all, we may say that the Furioso is little more than a dreadnought with more attacks, or that the Ravenwing Black Knights are nothing more than White Scars bikes with special weapons
>>43964757
Against dedicated CC units, tau melee will fold. But with the new mont-ka equipment, you can give your commander S8 ap1 close combat attacks, and can also throw Farsight in as well for S5 ap2 attacks at i5. Puretide chips can give the unit Furious Charge
Blind grenades are also VERY effective against necrons, making them Ws1 and they fail it reliably with just i2. And they also are very vulnerable to being swept
>>43964810
>the Furioso is little more than a dreadnought with more attacks
Ahahahahaha
BA players would like that!
So to move DARW list from 1000 pts to 1500 I was going to use a Silence Squadron which is a Dark Talon and two Nephilim Jetfighters because it was an even 500 points.
Now I think I may be better off wth two more bike squads and a Librarian on a bike.
My two bike squads now have melta and grav but the other two could be plasma and grav for some diversityand grav.
I would still have a few points left over and was wondering if it is worth adding another landspeeder or two to my support squadron or break off bikes with landspeeders for attack formations?
When are attack bikes better than regular bikes?
I was considering getting three with meltas and a melta landspeeder to do stuff in an attack squad.
>>43964810
You do realise Furioso has 2A base, right? Vanilla and DA have 4A.
>>43964691
I suggest you take another look to the SW codex, since it's nothing as you wrote. The different Claws units are more then just a bike or assault unit, a techmarine can't take a thunderwolf to ride with a group of cyberwolves, there is nothing like the lone wolf or the thunderwolves in the vanilla codex...Also if you keep acting so naughty Santa Grimnar will not give you presents this year
>>43964890
Pic related
If I am running based Lysander in an Imperial Fists army, what's the best option for a squad to attach him to? Assault Centurions? Assault Terminators? Or Honor Guard?
Also Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics means that most of the army should be Devastators/Centurion Devastators right?
>>43964902
I'm going to have to model a Trazyn as the grinch sometime, even though he's so worthless now.
Him, Obyron and Anarkyr.
Used to be really worth taking.
Anyway, yeah. Grinch Trazyn. Should be it santa outfit grinch style or classic start of story grinch?
>>43964824
i like your trickery and i'll be sure to try that if i ever get some tau
>>43964914
Lysander generally goes with Hammer/SS Termies.
Fists primarily love shooting things, so HB Devastators, HB Centurions, and lots of shooty Tacticals.
They also use frontline Scouts, too, if that interests you.
>>43964939
Onager delivery system is pretty funny against I2 or Unwieldy units.
>>43964949
I know fluff wise TH/SS Termies makes sense, and that's what I run in 30k Fists, but...Centurions honestly have been in my experience better in every way.
>>43964927
Since he's "dressed" in the miniature I'd suggest Santa outfit
So what exactly is bad about the Blood Angels dex? The lack of Centurions and non-buffed Scouts? Crappy Dreds?
Because army wide Overcharged engines and Furious Charge+Death Company seem bretty good.
>>43964890
How are they "more than", how are Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests, Lib Dreads, Furiso Dreads, Fast Vehicles and so on not unique enough?
Swiftclaws are CQC Bikers. So, they're different from Ravenwing, how?
Skyclaws are worse WS Assault Marines. They're majorly different, how?
Bloodclaws are Tactical Marines with Rage. That's different enough, but Death Company are not?
>>43965000
It was one of the first question asked in this thread.
Here >>43962951 the answer
>>43965007
Don't forget about Baal Predators.
>>43964986
Then do it, Fists have more of them than any other Marines. If they were sieging something, Lysander would probably run around with them for a battle or two.
>>43964973
only problem I have with Onager is that it's a Signature System
>>43965013
Shit, that fucking sucks.
>>43965000
They can take none of the things that make Space Marines amazing at the moment. No Centurions, no Gladius, no Skyhammer, etc. Not to mention Blood Angels are an assault based army in shoothammer, and everyone that's mainly assault hasn't been treated too well in shoothammer (7th) edition.Honestly it makes no sense balance wise but I don't mind shoothammer in 40k cuz you shouldn't be using swords or hammers in the future unless you're a special level of badass it makes sense fluff and immersion wise for melee to be somewhat ineffective
>>43965062
You just made Sanguinius cry.
>>43965077
The tabs kicked in, huh?
>>43965062
>it makes sense fluff and immersion wise
Warhammer 40,000 is Space Fantasy, not Science Fiction. Mighty heroes and villains clashing swords in the middle of a vast brawl, mad bayonet charges into the enemy ranks, and lightning-fast alien melee killing machines are all perfectly fluffy, immersive, thematic and characterful.
>>43965055
In a way it does, but it means that BA fans like myself can complain and have a huge list to fall back on.
It's like when I met that guy who said it wasn't fair BA's got Heavy Flamers in Tacts in 7th edition and Space Wolves should as well "cause they use drop pods more". Or some shit. Oh and people going "DC are so OP". If it wasn't for DC there would be noway of winning anything as BA.
Either way, the shitposters will say it's because BA are going to be merged in 8th.
>>43965149
That's cool, but look: you gotta get next to the enemy to melee yes? If the enemy has a ranged weapon, they will shoot you while you charge at them. Space Fantasy or Hard Sci, that's just common sense.
>>43965062
>spoiler
Power armor and Terminator suits were supposed to be good enough for that
>>43965007
Ravenwing are not CQC bikers. If they are in melee something has gone wrong.
>>43965183
Of course, but here's the thing. Close-quarters battles are fucking awesome.
Sure it's not practical, but you have to consider the badass factor.
>>43965190
Black Knights can do alright. Especially if they get a Stasis Grenade off.
>>43965062
Except that doesn't make sense because it happens all the time in fluff.
>>43965187
Not if the enemy has weapons clearly made to pierce heavy armor (Tau/Necron weapons, Plasma/Melta, etc.)
>Lucius stood in the feasting hall, alone but for the crackle of fires and the whispers within his mind. The trapped souls of his armour moaned, each shackled to the Chaos Space Marine as the price for defeating him in battle. Each surrendering their flesh upon the altar of the Eternal’s rebirth.
>Lucius clenched a fist, the flesh numb and twitching against his control. He frowned. Less and less of him was returning. Something cold and ancient was growing over the parts he had been forced to leave behind, coiled dormant behind his eyes. It strained at the periphery of Lucius’ mind, patient as it swelled into the gaps that oblivion had stripped away to claim for its own.
>Lucius felt it taking root, tasting reality with probing gossamer fronds. He wondered how long until nothing of him remained, until he died for the last time.
>What would emerge from death on the day he ceased to be Eternal?
-From "In Wolves' Clothing"
Lucius got some character development. It appears that each time he dies he losses a bit of himself and his resurrection takes longer.
From the pieces discarded during his rebirth, something ancient and evil is growing and taking shape. When he dies for real, that something will be unleashed.
>>43965196
Not saying they aren't badass. But you do have to realize that ranged will have an advantage until the distance is closed in.
>>43965202
Only with special characters though. Thus why I said it makes sense that you need to be a special level of badass to pull it off.
If Sanguinius hadn't been tired from kicking Bloodthirster ass all week, could he have beaten Horus?
>>43965244
>Only with special character though.
Except not. Some factions operate almost entirely around melee. Blood Angels being a good example.
>>43965244
Oh, it absolutely is. You always want to be the guy bringing the bolter to the knife fight.
It's just that a pair of Ye Olde Britishe Fyring Lynes walking towards each other blasting like retarded Caroleans is not a very interesting way to play the game.
>The thought shivered over Lucius’ mind. An obsession that had consumed him for nearly a century. The chance to duel one who had endured the millennia he and his fallen kindred had spent in exile. A singular warrior, now their ancient Wolf King. Lucius had crossed paths with the Fell-Handed in the years of the Great Crusade, and there were no others save the false Emperor himself that still drew breath from that time.
>He would strike a blow so severe that they would have no choice but to rouse Bjorn to face him. And he would use this ship to do it.
>The subterfuge rankled Lucius, but a pleasure postponed made it all the more satisfying at its climax. He would spill blood over the snow of their mountain citadel. He would succeed where a primarch had failed. Lucius shuddered, savoring the cloying blasphemy of the thought.
>But to do so, he would need to bleed the defenses of Fenris white. When they were isolated and desperate, with their fleets burning, Lucius would have the contest he so craved.
-From "In Wolves' Clothing"
Lucius and his warband want to besiege and destroy Fenris. His desire is to find and slay Bjorn, a pure cousin from the olden days.
Can Bjorn defeat Lucius? Can he survive the Curse of the Eternal?
>>43963655
And what is the basis of your pet theory? your unreasonable hatred?
>>43965245
Don't know about that but he probably could have held out until the Emperor arrived so they could double team Horus.
>>43965217
sounds like he's growing a daemon kind of like how warp talons and mutilators become something more then marines
>>43965245
no. i doubt any of the primarchs could take horus fully powered up
>>43965216
>Tau/Necron
They are not the most common enemies for Imperium. Necrons are scary ancient aliens with incredible technology. Tau are Tau.
>Plasma
Expensive or dangerous or Eldar weapon
>Melta
Melta has short range and low rate of fire
>>43963712
>Hrud Codex when?
Before the next Sob codex.
>>43965245
>Normal Primarch Horus
Yes, he was the best Primarch in close combat.
>Powered-up-by-the-Gods-themselves Horus
Not a chance. It was frankly surprising he managed to get a hole in the fucker's armour.
>>43965245
He definitely would've stood more of a chance that's for sure. The fact that he was able to work the Secundus shit with Guilliman and Lion, kick Bloodthirster ass, stop a daemon army from wrecking Terra that he was so stupidly outnumbered against nobody would even think of doing what he did, and STILL managed to make a chink in Horus' armor that possibly led the Emperor being able to kill him is quite respectable.
I may be an Ultramarines/Imperial Fists fanboy, but it's pretty obvious that Sanguinius is among the most powerful Primarchs being up there with Magnus, Transfigured Lorgar, and Horus with Chaos Gifts.
>>43965245
Regular Horus, it's entirely possible.
Plot Armor Horus infused with the power of all four major Chaos Gods? Nah.
Still, he could have slugged him better so Emps wouldn't have been broken like a bitch.
>>43964853
The Silence Squad will never really kill back 500 points, though it is a cool novelty. Most people over react to them and let your bikes do their normal thing.
More bike squads are always the answer with Ravenwing. If your support squad has the minimum three landspeeders I think they are fine as long as they have double bolters.
Attack Squads are good, two or three attacks squads are better. I would say that is your better route.
Librarians are also good, if you can give invis to your command squad it will be unkillable
>>43965283
>Necrons
>Not common
They are all over the place.
>>43965339
Imperials don't face them too often
>>43965266
Yeah, and Blood Angels aren't shown kicking massive ass fluff wise unless it's their character guys or Death Company.
>>43965283
Point still stands. Even more so combining fluff and TT.
Speaking of Sanguinius vs Horus, why didn't Emps see dead Sang, and wreck Horus then and there? Why did Ollanius Pius change his mind? Did he not love Sanguinius or something?
>>43965359
What are you even talking about?
Read Shield of Baal or something. Blood Angels seek out melee and wreck face when they are there.
>>43965364
Ollianus Pious was a myth for the Imperial Guard. He never existed. A lot of people don't realise this.
>>43965359
But Blood Angels are the best Rip and Tearers (Get fucked Kharn) in the universe.
>>43965307
If Emps had gone in there fighting instead of deciding the mortal combat with the avatar of the Ruinous Powers was the appropriate time to start loving his sons, he wouldn't have been broken like a bitch. Even Sanguinius can only do so much.
>>43965364
>love
the emperor wasn't just there biological origin nor were the primarchs just his kids. he thought them as warriors and generals, good people but weapons in his fight to save humanity. to put it shortly, he wasn't that attached to them.
>>43965359
WAAC fluff would be very bland and unexciting
ITT: A furfaghating bloodfag shitposting
>>43965364
Emps had a few thing on his mind, most notably that literally everything had gone to shit.
It's still no excuse to not have tried to kill him, but Horus was still his favorite son. Even at that point, it counted for something.
>>43965390
No, stop that shit.
>>43965364
He valued Horus more.Emp is an asshole
>>43965426
>shitflinging argument finally stops.
>doesn't reply to anyone.
>trying to derail thread again.
Fuck off.
>>43965441
Well, it's either that, or he was an unkillable psychic abomination that could never have died, so had nothing to lose.
Perpetuals a shit.
>>43965442
How anybody could love/value Horus over Sanguinius is beyond me.
>>43965349
I respectfully disagree.
>>43965339
And a lot of them is in stasis.
>>43965461
I really don't like that Perpetual bullshit and whoever introduced it
>>43965464
What always bugged me was how Ferrus never gave a fuck about Fulgrim painting mosaics of shit and blood all over everything. I mean, they were supposed to be the two Primarchs with a closer bond than any of the others, and Ferrus, a pragmatic, blunt asshole, doesn't bring it up?
>>43965441
How would a guardsman teleport into the Vengful Spirit?
>>43965464
Sanguinius was a mutant. Ingethel implied that the Chaos Gods gave him wings to mock the Emperor's anti-religious ways.
>>43965461
Perpetuals can be theoretically permanently killed by copious amounts of Warp energy.
>>43965217
Is he ascending? Or is Slaanesh using his soul to make a new KoS? Calling it. Lucius is pregnant with a KoS.
>>43965487
>"Wow, this is an actual pretty inspiring mythology, I can see why the Guard cling to it despite its improbability"
>ABNETT SAYS: "Ha ha, fuck you, he was tougher than the Emperor!"
>>43965504
But apparently not the Iron Warriors' nuclear arsenal. This is why I say they're bullshit: you have this unkillable Warp entity, and you're expected to feel sympathy for it as a human being.
They are demonstrably not human beings, guys. Stop writing them that way. Get rid of those Tzeentchian Illuminati ripoffs, too.
>>43965402
Not Black Templars, Space Wolves or World Eaters?
>>43965274
Yes Bjorn can. Bjron's probably going to be apathetic about this, or he's going to stomp Lucius in a sleepy daze.
>WHAT DID I STEP ON? DID I STEP ON SOMETHING IMPORTANT? SOMEONE FETCH ME MORE BOOZE.
>>43965464
It was late M41
>>43965419
It's not about being entirely WAAC though.
>>43965378
When they are there. Unlike ranged combat you have to get there.
>>43965496
hey, ugh, I hate to ask fulgrim, but whats up with the blood murals? I mean its kind of weird dude.
OR
why didn't fucking Magnus just tell the emperor what the fuck was going on? The way I see it, he had the chance, and was just to much of a pussy to bring it up.
>>43965551
They are all very very good at it.
Fluff wise though BA have some of the best melee in the setting.
Still doesn't account for shit when daemons come into it however. Everybody seems to job to daemons in melee in the fluff.
>>43965537
Pious is not a warp entity. He is just a man that cannot die. He had a family once. He loved them but they died. Now he has nothing felt to lose but his immortal soul.
Also he is the last catholic in the galaxy and he is destined to die for the sins of an atheist asshole. Irony!
>>43965464
Sang was 2nd favorite. Horus spent way more time with Emps back when he was the only Primarch around.
>>43965537
I don't like all instances of Perpetuals in fluff. Olanius, Emperor, Vulkan. It's so cheesy and stupid and steps beyond space fantasy limits I can endure.
>>43965585
That's why they have jump packs. They are quite good at deepstriking into melee.
What's your next post going to say?
>>43965390
The problem with the retcons is that after Pius stopped existing, that part of the story stopped making sense. Going to ignore how a human couldn't have survived being on the Vengeful Spirit for a moment. The point was that Horus demonstrated his irredeemability to the Emperor by killing this man. Okay, so he horribly murdered a lone soldier, and that proves something the Sanguinius' corpse didn't. Dubious no matter what, but when it was a Custodes, that's almost a threat. He might get lucky and scratch Horus so he's a reasonable target. Before that, it was a Terminator. Almost certainly unable to kill Horus, but is momentarily inconvenient, he could block a shot or something. Unkind, but killing him still makes sense. When it was Pius, a lone Guardsman who couldn't injure Horus if he climbed up Horus' armor and bayoneted him in the eye, who Horus could just step over like an uneven floor tile, and Horus took a moment to erase him from existence, that is pointless cruelty. That is something that might motivate the Emperor. GW made the story internally consistent at the cost of any reason to have the story at all. Losing Pius was a loss.And making him Perpetual misses the damn point too, BL!
>>43965551
Black Templars crusade, they don't rip and tear. It's different because one involves bloody murder and space-Jesus, and the other just involves bloody murder.
World Eaters, though, they deserve more love.
>>43965572
They probably have one of those drinking ports installed in him like Moriar has, but instead of blood it's 500-proof alcohol.
>>43965610
>man
>cannot die
I'd say those two things are pretty mutually exclusive, given how most things that cannot die appear in the setting.
He's a myth, ignore the Abnett.
What is the smallest Deathwing force I can take for my Ravenwing list? Are they worth taking?
>>43965610
>Also he is the last catholic in the galaxy and he is destined to die for the sins of an atheist asshole. Irony!
That atheist was a saint once.
>>43965627
So Bjron should have one of these on? Or at least on the inside?
>>43965551
BA = WE > BT ? SW
>>43965630
And Lucifer was an angel once.
>>43965190
Black Knights and Statis Nades I thought could do melee? Either way, Swiftclaws are barely better CQC Bikers.
>>43965282
>replying to Carnac
JUST SHAKING.
>>43965364
Because the Emperor talked about his prescience being blocked by a "Black wall" after a certain point, which is when the HH started. So he couldn't actually see what was going to happen. He told this to Dorn and Sanguinius when they went up to the Vengeful Spirit, saying that he did not know if he or they would survive. Sanguinius did, for some reason, perhaps Chaos didn't block his ability. As for Pius, that has been retconned, it is now a Custodes. As for not killing Horus, the Emperor believed that he could change Horus's mind, even after Horus had broken his back, burnt his face off, popped out one of his eyes and pulled his arm out of his socket, he still thought he could be saved. Then Emps saw the Custodes (or Pius if you want to ignore retcon) get wrecked with ease and Horus just laughing. At which point the Emperor set him on fire with mind bullets, while in that burning fire, the normal non-Chaos Horus returned and screamed he was sorry and for the Emperor to kill him because he didn't think he was strong enough to resist Chaos and had he been left to live, then Emps would have died and the only person able to kill him would have died and thus Chaos Horus would have returned. So Emps burned him and his soul into nothing, so Horus did not even go to Chaos. Then everybody started running away as the Custodes and Dorn finally arrived and they got off instead of scuttling the ship.
>>43965504
Perpetuals can only be killed by copious amounts of Warp Energy, correct. But the book in which this is stated said the spear must be wielded by a Primarch to kill the target. It was not. Thus Vulkan being a perpetual still means he'll return, it'll just take time.
>>43965648
Touché.
>>43965643
But with more wolf skulls.
>>43965533
Consider this in the light of the fluff that has steadily been introduced over the past few Eldar novels and Codexes, hyping up the prospect of Ynnead and the Harlequins devising a way of defeating Slaanesh forever.
Consider this also in light of GW giving Slaanesh the boot from Age of Sigmar.
It wouldn't surprise me if they're starting to push 40k the same way. Recent events in the two War Zone: Damocles books show that GW isn't afraid of moving the setting forwards and killing characters off any more.
>>43965503
I once read a story about Pius beomg some random Guardsman who climbed into a damaged suit of Terminator for cover during the Seige and got teleported in by mistake.
>>43965648
At this point I'm not going to be surprised. Still doesn't explain how he'll get in the Vengeful Spirit though.
>>43965658
New trip?
Also what you said honestly scares me to my core.
I thought Slaanesh was just missing anyway.
>>43965654
He's demonstrably not Carnac.
>>43965658
I love it, too. The story is just uninteresting if nobody important dies. Thank god GW finally gets this.
>>43965676
Pious gained an artefact that allows him to teleport via the Warp.
>>43965657
We need a shop of it to be appropriately Space Wolf.
>>43965658
Sounds like they want to rustle jimies. Also that name has a few unneeded characters in it.
>>43965705
But from where?
>>43965654
>carnac
look, i know we're all paranoid about him (personally i don't care much either way) but it's a legit thought since it is the narrative happening to Lucius the eternal. not to mention daemons work in more ways then we know. ever notice how chaos has mouths and teeth everywhere? there's a "biological" aspect to chaos like a fast moving mold that gets everywhere
>>43965724
Abnett's ass.
>>43965703
It is thou, he always writes like that. I advise you to search the archives. He always ends with the
-From "XXXX"
He did it when he spammed all the Necron bullshit, which I'm sure somebody has the screencaps for.
>>43965724
Just read the novels or his wiki page.
>>43965694
No, its the same one I've always used. For some reason it's just giving me gibberish instead of an apostrophe.
>>43965703
40k isn't a story, though - or at least it hasn't been until now. It's (or it was) a static setting, a big sandbox for people to tell their own stories in. Personally that's how I like things. Especially since GW's recent storytelling efforts have been rather suspect at best, so I'm not particularly keen to see what the future holds.
>>43965694
Same trip, it's her.
>>43965741
I know he does, but this dude's not making retarded assertions and fapping to Bel'akor or Shadowsun, he's making sense. Mostly.
>>43965741
Who cares? No wrong was done.
Stop shitting up the thread with unrelated crap.
