So I finally beat this and honestly what a great game. Perhaps one of the things that kept me most captivated was how much detail they put into describing the Planescape setting through the narrative, and it interested me as to how to adapt it into a campaign.
What is your experience with Planescape?
There was a guy who tried to run a Planescape general here some time ago, lets see if he pops up here.
>>43912573
Doesn't seem like many folks here play Planescape
>>43912172
I'd say most of /tg/'s experience with Planescape is through this game. It was my first D&D-related (or RPG for that matter) thing I ever played, so it really skewed my idea of what RPGs could be. But you're average player doesn't want that sadly.
>>43912172
Heard the combat system is shit, any truth to that?
>>43917241
Combat isn't why you play this game, theres only a handful of encounters that are required in the entire game
>>43917322
Time to give it a go then. I'm not prepared to shit through tons of shitty combat just to get to the good parts, but if it's mostly avoidable it's another thing.
Game is shit.
It's not just combat - no reasonable stealth mechanics, nor a proper setup to use them. Poor spell selection, no alchemy or any form of crafting. No proper exploration also, game feels quite level-esque, like you are driven through stages. Quality of writing is also overstated, aside from incorporated pseudo-slang, some references and such, it isn't dramatically better than BG 2. Storywise it is ok I guess, considering it is a CRPG and whole ide isn't that original in other media (Wheel of Time, Eternal Champion). Also I like how they designed a world when ideas and abstractions collide simply in a form of necro-fetish fantasy with sentient inanimate objects. No wonder game was a flop even though it was published and developed by huge names in industry.
>>43918139
>shit combat
At the end of the day this is just D&D. Torment has fewer interesting encounters than the other Infinity Engine games, but combat is not the focus of the game, so this is forgivable. I actually found the challenge of making a party with so many weapon and item restrictions (and almost no armor) to be kind of interesting. Same goes for stealth, alchemy, and crafting. These things are poorly handled in D&D's rules (and in games in general).
>Quality of writing is overstated
It's not Shakespeare, but it is basically the video game equivalent. It certainly beats the hell out of any Modern RPG's writing (save maybe The Witcher) and is more than up to the task of describing the weirder aspects of the Planescape setting.
>Storywise it is ok I guess
Where Torment really excels over other games is not in TNO's story, but in the way your companions are developed as characters, and the way your choices affect them, which is something few RPGs get right.
>Also I like how they designed a world when ideas and abstractions collide simply in a form of necro-fetish fantasy with sentient inanimate objects.
Not sure what you're trying to say here, but the game is pretty faithful to the source material (i.e. the setting this thread is about).
>>43913825
I've had the exact same experience. Even before I played Torment, I thought the outer planes and Sigil were the coolest things in DnD. Sadly though, between INFINITE PLANES and niggling details like the Cant, most DMs aren't up to running Planescape. I might attempt it in the future, but it's a pretty daunting concept.
>>43912573
You talking about the guy who posts the 2hu pics? His nigh-encyclopedic knowledge of Planescape is kinda fascinating. I've lurked in his threads many times, but haven't really posted much in them.
I'm running a 5e campaign in the planes, but it's on hold right now because most of the players are preparing for final exams. The party's currently in the City of Dis, on their way to Minauros. I can tell more about it if anyone's interested.
>>43919036
>you feel a strange shiver as you look at her body... you *know* you've killed others this way.
I loved those eerie details in that game, it handled mystery in a rather interesting manner.
My only critique for the game, apart from the clunky combat, was the density of the writing that stopped the overall rhythm of the game; You're walking in a dungeon when you're stopped by a character that tells you a long winded explanation of what he's doing there, where you have to change the fighting pace that you have some seconds ago and sit for some minutes and read calmly about what he's saying.
I'm not saying that reading is wrong, hell that narrative was rather good, but it played against the overall rhythm of the game.
>>43912172
Gah I've tired playing it recently and couldn't find some fucking guy I had to talk to in the Lower Ward. So many damn screens to walk through and no walking speed.
Couldn't find the fucker... and I love planescape but couldn't progress.
>>43917375
In the final area of the game I gave in and save-edited to give my characters super combat stats. I wish I had done it earlier.
>>43912172
>What is your experience with Planescape?
Limited... And I've read tons and tons on it. I really want to run or play in a game.
>>43917241
>>43917375
>>43920627
>>43920742
ITT: Casuals
>>43912573
>>43920364
I have indeed created Planescape General threads in the past. During the threads in October, I tried to maintain a higher level of standards than my GiantITP counterpart, afroakuma, by actually citing primary sources and by pointing out when various sources conflict in their information and it is up to the GM to decide.
Unfortunately, most of the threads did not pan out too well because there simply was not enough interest in them, people asked the same questions repeatedly (thereby forcing me to merely relink previous posts of mine, which, I imagine, was not very riveting), and people had to wait too long as I researched primary sources and gave direct citations and quotes (many of these PDFs have no OCR and thus forced me to type things out manually).
All in all, the Planescape General threads were a failure, and that is why I stopped creating them. I would field questions in *this* thread today and tomorrow, but unfortunately, I have other matters I must attend to.One of those matters is preparing for one of my multiple, weekly, six-hour-time-slot Planescape games.
If anyone is interested in them, here are the previous attempts at Planescape general threads:
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/Planescape%20General/
I can field questions here, but I am truly quite busy, so do not expect comprehensive or timely answers, and do not expect citations and references either. I will be working off memory.
>>43921353
I also happen to be a degenerate who runs Planescape games in an overwhelmingly "animu" style.
To wit, these are the tokens I use. (This image is somewhat outdated, as I have added more tokens since then.)
If anyone would like them, here they are.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8y2uc8
>>43921353
What is the spookiest place in the planes that isn't just a black void?
>>43921529
Believe it or not, I actually try to keep to a somewhat consistent "art direction" for my take on Planescape. For instance:
- I emphasize the usage of Planescape's preexisting animal-themed outsiders. Arcanaloths become foxpeople (since jackalpeople are virtually impossible to find anime artwork for), lupinals are wolfpeople, leonals are catpeople (although I tell players to picture the feline ears as leonine ears instead), bezekiras are catpeople.
- Baatezu have sleek, geometric, and sometimes minimalistic designs to their infernal looks, whereas tanar'ri have decidedly "wilder" demonic designs.
- Ultroloths have white skin and red eyes, often glowing red eyes.
- Rilmani have a subtly metallic look to their hair.
- Higher-ranking hierarch modrons that are already humanoid (e.g. tertians, secundi) are sci-fi-looking anime boys and girls.
- Since the art direction for the Outer Planes is mostly of a "Western" aesthetic, the gate-towns of the Outlands and the Astral and Ethereal have a more South Asian/East Asian "art direction" to them, like this token here.
>>43921647
This is a purely opinion-based question, but for me, the creepiest would have to be the demiplane called "The Boundless." I cover it here:
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43385585/#43406310
>My favorite demiplane is "the Boundless," described in page 45 of the Guide to the Ethereal Plane. It is an enigmatic demiplane of strange and alien terrain, such as a gelatinous ocean upon which crystal-isles rest. On a traveler's first trip to the boundless, imbibing some of the ocean heals and restores them. On their second trip, the ocean confers restoration and youth... and forevermore "marks" that person. The demiplane "hunts down" the victim while they are in the Ethereal, trying to lure them back into it.
>A third drink from the gelatinous ocean causes the victim to disappear. Nobody knows what fate befalls them.
>>43921737
Thanks weaboo!
No interest in Planescape?
>>43924521
I'd love to play a game in the setting, but there's no chance of that happening.
Because how many GMs are out there hosting online PS games not in ADnD?
>>43924795
From May to October, I was running Planescape games in Strike! and in a vaguely *World-like hombrew system four times a week, for an average of six hours each time.
I am now down to GMing Planescape only two times a week, sometimes three.
>>43924795
I think a lot of people ported the setting to other systems, actually. I know I've seen Fate conversions for example.
But that's expected - imagine getting into PS through Torment, where every other NPC you meet is a unique being in one way or the other. Trying to replicate that in AD&D is going to feel a bit constrained.
>>43919036
I've wondered, is it possible to do a evil run in Torment skipping the mindless killing and focusing on being manipulative and controlling?
>>43924816
The question of timezone compatibility still remains though. At what times are you available?
>>43924835
D&D, ironically, does not do too well at running Planescape.
I have always believed that the "standard, common races" of Planescape should be the actual "standard, common races" of the setting: baatezu, tanar'ri, yugoloths, modrons, slaadi, archons, guardinals, eladrin, aasimon, elementals, genies, and so on. You would have to say that the PCs are exceptional sorts who are not bound by their races' usual compulsions, but that is fine and in the spirit of Planescape.
>>43924844
I am normally available for running games from 6:00 P.M. EST to 7:00 A.M. EST, but that is irrelevant, because none of my games have openings. (I only run for one or two players with each game. I have attempted to run for three or four players in the past, and it simply did not work out. I am much more suited to running for only one or two players.)
>>43924843
Short answer - oh yes.
Evil things you can do in PST do not, in fact, consist of wanton random slaughter of innocent bystanders, but rather manipulating, using and abusing those around you, with various degrees of blatancy.
Selling your party member into slavery for a boost in power - check.
Submitting your party member to an existance of eternal torture and misery to get directions to advance the plot - check.
Force a town to slide into hellish plane and let the demons subjugate it because you can't be bothered with making it travel to a more good plane? Check.
Releasing a genocidal construct with intention (and implied capability) to destroy the whole multiverse from imprisonment (for frun or profit)? Check.
These are the things I can remember off my head, there are definitely others.
>>43924870
>I am normally available for running games from 6:00 P.M. EST to 7:00 A.M. EST, but that is irrelevant, because none of my games have openings.
Which brings us back to >>43924795
>>43924870
>I have always believed that the "standard, common races" of Planescape should be the actual "standard, common races" of the setting: baatezu, tanar'ri, yugoloths, modrons, slaadi, archons, guardinals, eladrin, aasimon, elementals, genies, and so on. You would have to say that the PCs are exceptional sorts who are not bound by their races' usual compulsions, but that is fine and in the spirit of Planescape.
I agree, and actually I would also like to take it one step further, and allow a build-your-own approach to represent the infinite variety of races in the multiverse.
I'd like to run something Planescapey with Fate someday, but even a flexible but crunchy system like M&M could work for the less narratively inclined.
>>43924870
>baatezu, tanar'ri, yugoloths, modrons, slaadi, archons, guardinals, eladrin, aasimon, elementals, genies, and so on
Also, part of the beauty of ruling these to be "standard, common races" is that there is a large degree of variety within a single race alone, such that many a concept can be accommodated. Depending on the power level of the game, PCs can be subpar or exceptional specimens of their respective subraces as necessary.
A baatezu PC could be an icy and insectile gelugon, a glamorous erinyes warrior, a "generic devil" cornugon, a part-red-dragon abishai, or any other sort of devil, perhaps even a "custom promotion."
An archon PC could be an ursine and burly warden archon, a trumpet archon musician of the heavens, a harpy-like and graceful sword archon, a truename-slinging word archon, or one of the many "special" types of archons in Mount Celestia's hierarchy.
>>43924902
I believe that the most flavorful approach would be to assume that, by default, player characters belong to one of the major planar races and that they can declare their character to look like whatever the want, have whatever powers they want, and act however they want, whether or not that fits with a preestablished outsider subrace.They can even have families; there are plenty of "liveborn" in the planes.
This lets players customize their characters to a reasonable degree while still giving them built-in ties to the setting and plot hooks from their race alone. A baatezu from Baator who is stereotypically LE already has many possible plot hooks, and there are just as many if the character is non-LE.
Players can create characters from entirely different races, of course, but that comes with the understanding that the character will have less of immediate tie-in to the setting. They can still have plenty of ties with a good background, of course, or simply being part of a faction or a sect.
>>43912172
I've been told stories. Sigil is ripe for abuse and shenanigans, and sometimes that's what you're playing for, and sometimes that's why the Lady of Pain exists.
I've made stories. Not Planescape as wrote, but very near. It was a years-long endeavor, and a very engaging one. It also didn't dig into the intended themes, per se, but by the end of it, things had escalated to the point that we were preparing to fight the cosmic force of Law itself.
>>43924949
I say that these races are important because Planescape is, counterintuitively, *not* a multiversal setting akin to MtG, GURPS' Infinite Worlds, The Strange, or the OGL "Beyond Countless Doorways", all of which are multiverses where there are infinite planes floating around, waiting to be explored by adventurers.
The Great Wheel has shades of that, particularly with the demiplanes of the Deep Ethereal and the crystal spheres of the Prime (the latter is more Spelljammer than Planescape though), but it is ultimately *not* that kind of multiverse.
Planescape's core boxed set and its supplements present a setting that is utterly alien in terms of the way the different components of the setting interact with each other, but they are actually structured somewhat akin to a "standard fantasy setting" and intended to be run like one to a degree.
There are "nations" (e.g. Mount Celestia, Baator, the Abyss, the Elemental Plane of Fire), each with their own dominant races (archons, baatezu, tanar'ri, efreet) and rulers (the Hebdomad, the Lords of the Nine, various warring Abyssal lords, the sultan of the efreet), major cities (e.g. Empyrea, Dis, Broken Reach, the City of Brass), half-explored, half-uncharted wildernesses and dungeons (the Tower of Fire, the depths of Cania where the ancient Baatorians lie frozen, too many Abyssal layers to count, the Plain of Burnt Dreams), "guilds" (factions and sects), and religions (gods as usual, except in person). There is also a "global trade and transport city" (Sigil).
The underlying principle behind the setting is that "belief shapes the planes," but this principle is personified by these major "nations," races, rulers, "guilds," and religions conflicting with one another due to cosmic forces of belief, like law and chaos. Look at the Blood War.
Planescape was never meant to be run as a truly multiversal, infinite-planes setting, and is instead written to focus on a more standard fantasy setup with a very alien twist.
TORMENT TIDES OF NUMENERA COMING SOON LADS
I've put 50 bucks into the making of that game and they keep delaying it, god damn it
>>43925147
>anime picture
content of the post disregarded, I hope it was worth it
>>43925219
You're supposed to read the thread before posting.
I've always found when running Planescape that there are a few things which really make the setting interesting, at least as far as I'm concerned.
The first is interesting vistas: people should see all sorts of exotic, breathtaking, majestic, unique, etc etc sights. Second of all, these places should have reasons to be interesting - divine realms are just fine for that sort of thing, but so are various planar and faction locations. This also helps to keep combat interesting, as well as adding twists to dungeons - exploring a dungeon in the City of Brass is obviously very different to doing the same in Waterdeep. Suddenly, "dispel magic" traps and effects can be incredibly dangerous, and it introduces some new weaknesses for both the players and the opposition.
Of course, there's also a vast array of exotic little one-offs and creatures - interesting food, items, curiosities, works of art, species, etc. These are great for adding flavor to the world, and make interesting little adjuncts and breaks away from the adventure (or neat little setting details when talking to npcs and the like).
Finally, the philosophical aspects are there too - players should be tested on their understanding, given oportunities to use the connections/abilities/traits that the factions provide and also given a chance to focus on alignment philosophies (all of these play into interesting quests and so on as well).
>>43924875
Destroying everything is actually a good thing. You're not a natalist, are you?
>>43925180
Judging from how Wasteland 2 turned out, I suggest you prep yourself for dissapointment. This way if it turns out shit it won't hurt as much, and if it actually turns out decent then all the better.
Setting-wise Numenera has nothing to do with Planescape though.
>>43912172
>What is your experience with Planescape?
Been running a planescape campaign for 1 year almost.
The setting requires a degree of GM preparation which is quite frankly very intricated.
I found that it works best when you have Sigil as the main hub (as intended), and show little parts of each plane with different adventures.
Also you really really really have to make Sigil the center of everything, and you must spend a lot of time to make it beliavable.
Social interaction are usually heavy, and this can be clumsy with d&d handling of them.
It requires some time to get accostumed to, also a lot of bookeeping
>>43925253
>"dispel magic" traps
Crossdressing shota wizards who like to dispel magic?
>>43925147
>Planescape was never meant to be run as a truly multiversal, infinite-planes setting, and is instead written to focus on a more standard fantasy setup with a very alien twist.
I don't disagree with your analisys, but look back at Torment for a second.
In Torment many of the random NPCs you meet for a throwaway dialogue line have some peculiar trait, from the lady with shapeshifting teeth, to the letter O chilling in the tavern, to the robo-whore and so on. And let's not go into the companion NPCs.
That may be more the game's idea of PS than the actual RPG, but it's a powerful idea. It has pull, and it's a part of why Torment is still loved as a game.
The actual boxed sets are much tamer in comparison. The available PC races are mostly humans with rubber elemental foreheads. And that's easilly explained considering that it's in line with the design for AD&D, but it still sells Planescape short.
