what does /tg/ think to lamentations flame princess?
>>43844846
I just don't see the point of most of the modules, really.
>>43844846
It makes Basic playable.
But the monsters and overall philosophy behind the module and adventures is gay, and the spell lists are godawful.
If there was a more 'core' fantasy set of rules to fix it, it'd be great, though.
It's too goddamn edgy.
>>43844869
Quite a few of them are really good dungeoncrawls? I'm not a fan of LotFP's edgy aesthetic but stuff like The God That Crawls or the redone Death Frost Doom have a lot of mileage in them.
Of course there are a lot of dross adventures too.
>>43844938
red and peasant land is meant to be good from what i heard.
>>43845004
What's the selling point of it?
I've also heard it's good but never got any specifics?
>>43845004
I mean yeah it is but I'd struggle to say it's system dependent on LotFP. I don't even think of it as a LotFP book. I suppose a lot of the better modules are like that though - A Red and Pleasant Land is pretty easy to run with any old-school ruleset.
Vornheim which is like a weird city sim/Virconium adventure generator by the same guy is even better.
>>43845018
I was hoping that /tg/ would know, actually, haven't play it
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a basic clone with a neat encumbrance system and some odd ideas about class balance. It doesn't really fix the underlying issues that make old school D&D less desirable to me, but if you're into old school D&D, it would probably serve you well.
>>43845018
It's Alice in Wonderland meets Dracula, It's weird, fantastic, and beautifully done.
If you'd like to give it a read, it's in the OSRG's trove.
>>43844846
It's one of the best retroclones. It knows what it wants to do and does it well. The encumbrance systems is a thing of beauty, and it has some of the best firearms rules of any D&D edition.
The modules are pretty metal (which is not the same thing as edgy) and generally of a very high quality.
>>43844846
Eh. It's okay, I guess
I prefer Guffaws of the Frost Peasant though, to be honest.
>>43845877
>metal (which is not the same thing as edgy)
But hey if people want edgy give the people what they want.
>>43846289
Ten posts in is ten posts too late
>>43844846
a retroclone that actually tries to stand out from the pack.
crunch is solid
fluff can turn off Social justice warriors and those with weak constitutions.
>>43846543
Isn't the fluff about strong independant wimmen?
>>43846789
That's the beauty of it, it will turn off all types of idiots leaving only reasonable people.
>>43846789
The iconics are strong independent women, if you want to look at it that way. But it's also pretty brutal and gory, as Raggi's inspirations are Hammer horror films and heavy metal.
>>43846806
Yeah i just don't see how that would turn off sjws like that other anon said
>>43846851
They also get hurt in grisly ways, which the looney brigade could interpret as glorifying violence against women.
It's one of the better OSR games. I don't think the heavy metal aesthetic doesn't mesh well with the Hammer Horror and exploitation film aesthetic, but it's a solid game and it's fun to play up the latter aesthetics with it. It's the closest I'll get to playing out an AIP Edgar Allen Poe film in a fantasy game.
Raggi himself seems like a bit of a fuckhead, but he can gather up some great creatives for his line.
>>43846885
Pretty sure they did. Can't win.
>>43844846
>what does /tg/ think to lamentations flame princess?
The art looks cool. I just need to know one thing, what is the basic die mechanic?
>>43846958
It's an OSR game based on Basic D&D, so d20 from way back before it got all complicated and crufty.
Have the free no-art version.
>>43846853
"Alright, sir, what was it you claim this man did?"
"Uh... he said the word 'loli'."
"Right. I meant what did he do that's illegal?"
"Well, some guy on the internet said that saying 'loli' means he's probably a pedophile."
"Ah, I see. Fuck off, dumbass."
>>43846789
They were until Raggi broke up with the woman who he based this whole stupid "Flame Princess" on, and now all the art is of her getting torn apart.
>>43847033
>d20
Okay thanks. All I needed to know.
LotFP is a Basic D&D clone, closest to Moldvay B/x, to be specific. Unlike most clones, it intentionally diverges from the standard to better fit a certain kind of play.
Over all, the game play is a bit tighter and a little more low-powered than the B/x equivalent.
Important changes:
> Ascending AC
> Best encumbrance system I've run into to date
> Thief skills are no longer percentiles. Attack rolls and saving throws are d20s, all "skills" are d6s. Weapons have variable damage as normal.
> Core classes all have their niches strengthened.
> Cleric and Magic-User spell lists are very strongly tailored to their specific archetypes.
> Clerics are very witch-hunter and anti-magic powered. There is no resurrection magic.
> Magic Users get a lot of creative utility spells some of which are absurdly powerful and dangerous (looking at you, Summon)
> Thief has been replaced with Specialist, which can represent anything from a thief or assassin to an explorer or ranger. Specialists get to decide what skills they gain as they level, and they are the only class that naturally gains skills.
> Fighters are the only class that gains additional Attack Bonus as they level, making them by default absolute combat gods while avoiding the AC scaling issues that some editions have.
The art and module asethetics are pretty strong - you'll either love them or hate them - but the rulebook is currently available without any art at all, and you can use the system to run any other Basic D&D material, so if the aesthetics aren't for you, you can safely ignore them.
>>43847063
>spreading urban legends
The Flame Princess thing predates his girlfriend and breakup with said girlfriend by years.
>>43847071
If you've never played Basic D&D, you ought to give it a chance. It's very far removed from the mess that came later.
>>43847033
>Basic
>d20
In what way?
>>43847063
Incorrect. Per Raggi, the woman he based the Flame Princess on was someone he never actually met in person. It was an amateur goth model whose page he found ages ago. Before it was an RPG, it was a metal fan 'zine by the same name.
After the game got started again, he did manage to contact her and she was a little weirded out about the whole thing. The Flame Princess was already being killed in the art at that point the same way literally every character tends to get killed in the art - because, that's the trope for this kind of game. Adventurers getting killed in terrible ways.
The SJW complaints I've heard always amount to A) "violence against women" ignoring how many men are also depicted as being killed in the art and B) "objectification!" because there are occasionally nude people (male and female) in the art.
>>43847109
Basic D&D is a reference to the editions published simultaneously with Advanced D&D, starting in 76?
See >>43847081
>>43847109
It uses a d20 as its central die mechanic. I'll agree that it's not remotely the same thing as "The OGL D20 System" though. It just shares the basic die roll system.
>>43847103
>If you've never played Basic D&D, you ought to give it a chance. It's very far removed from the mess that came later.
I try to avoid retro-clones, because in the process of trying to get rid of a lot of the bad things that have wormed their way into modern games, they have a tendency to also get rid of all the good advances we've made in gaming as well.
But according to >>43847081's list, LotFP seems to have avoided that pitfall for most of the things I care about, so I'm definitely up to give it a try.
Now I just have to convince some of my friends to play anything other than Pathfinder for once.
Honestly if the spells weren't so awful, and there was an actual monster manual that provided balanced challenges, and like, GEAR, I'd be all over this.
But as it is, all the game is good for is "PCs keep dying, this game is gay, let's play something more fun": The RPG.
It's an OSR METAL MEANS GM VERSUS PLAYERS bullshit.
>>43847081
I recall hearing that it's also very focused on player skill over character skill, any thoughts on that?
>>43847151
You muffin, I was asking how Basic is a d20 system.
>>43847171
How much has to run off d20s for it to be referred to as d20?
>>43844846
As I've said in another thread,
Some of the things in LotFP that I really like are the magic rules, the fire arms system, all placed during the time of the 30 Years War that is the suggested background that the game takes place in. Pike and shot warfare is a lot different than your typical OSR setting. LotFP is a niche game.You don't have to like it if it's not your niche, but I see LotFP as a unique tool box.
You don't have to be an Edgelord to appreciate some of these tools in this particular tool box. You don't even have to use all the tools that are in this tool box. However, what it does it does well. (and just because this particular tool box also has a gimp mask, ball gag, and rape kit in it doesn't mean you have to use them).
I like that it's compatible with the Gazetteer series which opens up a lot of options. Orcs of Thar was one of the first D&D releases that allowed monsterous PC classes, complete with XP levels and so on.
Imagine for a moment the 30 Years War with troll pikemen, kobold artillerists, orc arquebusiers, Hobgoblins in Tercio formations with gnoll musketeers, all fighting for or against the Catholic church during the Protestant reformation.
It might not be your thing but for me it opens up a lot of creative role playing possibilities.
>>43847193
> Honestly if the spells weren't so awful
I actually find them a bit more interesting, as it keeps the cleric and magic user from stepping on each other's dicks all the time.
> and there was an actual monster manual
It's not intended to be a "fight some generic bullshit" kind of game. The DMG has some guides on creating monsters, but given it's cross compatible with just about everything I wouldn't even see a point in publishing an LotFP specific writeup of every orc, goblin, and bugbear. Do you really need all of the same generic monsters written up all over again just so you don't have to convert AC8 to AC12?
> provided balanced challenges,
Bahaha. oh. You're serious. OSR games aren't supposed to be about "give us monsters we can fight." That's a mentality that sets in with later editions. There is a reason gold is your primary source of XP. Your incentive is to avoid the fight entirely if you can. Combat is a fail state.
> But as it is, all the game is good for is "PCs keep dying, this game is gay, let's play something more fun": The RPG.
Your players are terrible, your GM is terrible, or none of you know how to play the game.
> It's an OSR METAL MEANS GM VERSUS PLAYERS bullshit.
I guess that answers my question.
>>43847227
> very focused on player skill over character skill
Yes. That's what the guy above is completely missing. It's not supposed to be a game where players can roll their way through every encounter. Like most pre 2e games, it's mostly about the player being clever and avoiding obstacles, problem solving, etc. Generally speaking, when the dice come out it means something has already gone horribly fucking wrong.
>>43847228
You can have d20-based resolution systems without actually being the d20 system.
See: TORG, which uses a d20 for resolution, but is DEFINITELY not the D20 OGL system in any of its incarnations.
>>43847346
Player skill, AKA metagaming munchkin bullshit.
The fact is that LOFP is geared towards nothing more than destroying PCs, which does very little towards telling any sort of coherent story.
>>43847228
> You muffin, I was asking how Basic is a d20 system.
It's pretty straightforward. The average player can pick it up in a few minutes, really.. and it's light enough that a player who has never learned it might never have to if the DM is on top of his game. Remember that AD&D originally hid all of the real mechanics in the DMG, with the expectation that the player didn't need to know them. In my current group, I doubt any of my players know anything more than the character creation rules and the things listed on theri character sheet. We've had no problems.
> How much has to run off d20s for it to be referred to as d20?
People are kind of dumb. The "D20 system" refers to a specific actual system - the 3.x OGL. A lot of games use a d20 as their central die mechanic, from earlier (and later) versions of D&D to Alternity and others.. that doesn't make them "d20 systems" as the term is recognized as a product.
>>43847351
How much of the system has to be d20-based for it to count as a d20 system?
>>43847372
Oh, this is gonna be good, I can't wait for your ruse to get the other anon to spend two hours responding to you.
>>43847380
It just has to use a d20.
Seriously, all the morons who hate on "the d20 system" have that as their only pre-requisite because logic and reason are not used in forming their opinions.
>>43847372
I'm not sure if you're a troll, stupid, or just had a lot of bad experiences, but either way I'm sorry you had a bad experience somewhere. A lot of other people are having fun with it though, so sorry anon.
>>43847387
Nah. See above.
>>43847380
A d20 system?
Or THE d20 system?
Honestly, I think it's pretty crappy to define a system by the type of die used for action resolution, when there are more distinctive factors at work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System
>>43847436
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System
>search for The D6 system
Where the hell is star wars and/or M&M?!
I hate the d6 system!
>>43847591
> links to post talking about 'Basic
> Uses a system that isn't 'Basic to show how complicated the rules are
Reading comprehension sure has dropped on this board.
>>43847621
The only way that I can comprehend you actually deciding to respond to Virt is that you ARE Virt, realized you were wrong, and tried to do some simple, unoffensive damage control.
I can't comprehend human intelligence at such a low point to think otherwise.
>>43847591
>tables that made AD&D shitty
How about no? Weapon vs AC, speed factor, casting time, and reach were great rules if used and added a lot of depth to weapon type. Just compare how utterly bland later edition weapon tables are.
4e deserves special mention because while weapon types are largely irrelevant by design feats make them very distinct if you want them to be -- not that it matters.
>>43847663
A bunch of people don't realize that Buck Huckins is Virtual Optim yet. I'd hate to be the anon that ends up in that dude's shop, it's probably the saddest place on earth.
>>43847688
>>43847663
Random passer-by here, Virt's back? Is there any proof? He could just be another obnoxious namefag.
For those who are confused, Basic D&D is the series in the red box in pic related, which ran parallel to Advanced all the way up until WotC cancelled the line and took the A off of AD&D.
They're two separate lines, and while they're generally compatible, they're different games.
>>43847771
Do any gold box retroclones exist?
>>43847768
I don't know if there's proof, honestly it doesn't matter. They share a few things, like going absolutely crazy about how much they hate Dungeon World.
The real key is that: He desperately scrambles for attention by being contrary in every thread. He makes /tg/ worse in absolutely every thread he touches, which is many.
>>43847768
>>43847808
He's also showing off Virt's love for Savage Worlds, meaning once again it's time to be embarrassed about being a Savage Worlds fan: >>43847542
>>43847670
>Weapon vs AC
Fails as soon as there's more than one way to reach a certain AC. Like, say, with magical armour.
>>43847846
Has he ranted about wanting to strangle elf women yet? Virt fucking loved going off on tangents about that.
>>43847794
>did anyone play Gold Box
is probably the better question.
>>43847808
>>43847846
>>43847855
See >>43847564
>>43847794
Immortals was kind of screwy. That said, there's an OSR Immortals book called Exemplars and Eidolons that tries to do what the Gold Box did, but in a more sane, playable way.
>>43847861
Probably not, since I've never seen it mentioned here.
Still, I find stuff like Draedens pretty neat in theory.
Then again, I also find stuff like that third party Immortal's Handbook, so I might just be broken inside.
>>43847879
I'll have to check that out.
>>43844938
>The God That Crawls
While the adventure is fine, the idea behind it is dms bitching they can't railroad the pcs not through dungeons.
>>43847692
>report a thread talking about actual tabletop games
But why
>>43848441
>too retarded to work out that anon wanted you to report BH's posts, not the thread
Was anyone else turned off by Raggi's editorializing in Better Than Any Man? Great module otherwise.
>>43848485
Sadly, a lot of designers think that the way to sell their particular game or style of play is to pontificate obnoxiously about its superiority. It seems to be a fairly common problem among a lot of different indie games.
>>43848560
It's so strange, because it always comes off as insecure, especially in Better Than Any Man.
>>43848560
Worked for White Wolf. Hell, its hard to think of cases where it doesn't work. Masturbating to your own greatness is very helpful for marketing.
>>43847103
>If you've never played Basic D&D, you ought to give it a chance. It's very far removed from the mess that came later.
I have played it, and I disagree.
>>43848654
Yeah, it's basically just 4e dnd, and we all know what an unprofitable fuckshow that was.
>>43847103
Basic D&D has a lot of catastrophic flaws, like that many, many PCs will exist solely to fail and die, and you have few options in combat to mitigate this. You're essentially down to a coin flip against an orc, and there are many foes who can instantly annihilate you, cripple you or remove you from the fight, even if you're a rare character who can take a hit.
You essentially have to hope there's a magic user with Sleep.
In addition its important to note that "playing smart" counts for a lot less than you may be used to, as while scouts and casting time/speed factor use can GREATLY reduce PC lethality (other than for the scout!), none of that applies. Enemies can see in darkness -- period, even if they're apparently human -- and so most of the time, they will see you coming, but the reverse is not true.
Its okay, but lets not pretend its less borked than its successors.
It is less borked than, say, 3e, 4e, or 5e with 3d6/6x, though.
>>43848711
>Yeah, it's basically just 4e dnd
What? One of the defining features of 4e was the tactical element, something that's largely absent from any edition of basic.
>>43848711
>equating OSR-ish anything to 4e
Why do you say these things?
>>43848654
I didn't say you're guaranteed to love it, but it is lighter, and quicker than any other D&D.
>>43848811
Not really accurate to say quicker, though lighter.
>>43848841
It's not a fair comparison, unless you add a clarifier such as "Quicker than any combat in D&D made later than 1990"
Then it's definitely true.
>>43848863
It's quicker than AD&D, too. Its only possible competitor is OD&D, which I haven't played yet.
>>43848863
Yes, that's fair then.
Reason I specified the quicker bit is that I guarantee you will clear encounters faster if you have a party full of speed factor 1/caster time 1 action characters in AD&D.
>>43848880
>It's quicker than AD&D, too.
Naw. There are a decent number of ways to boost your initiative and surprise chances in AD&D, and if you capitalize on them the game will breeze by significantly faster.
>>43848934
I wouldn't really describe that as the system being faster, so much as just being more cheesable.
Setting aside how quickly you can kill monsters with a specialized dart fighter in Advanced, combat in AD&D involves tracking and dealing with a lot more stuff than in Basic.
>>43848999
>so much as just being more cheesable.
Cheesable is the wrong word by about eight parsecs, as heavy duty cheese (or as most OSR players report, a kind DM) is the only way you're going to have a decent chance of surviving.
>specialized dart fighter
No clue why people think this is cheese, since 3 attacks at 1d3+2 (?) each that must nearly be at point blank range to use and don't come in reusable magic form is of extremely questionable use. Same damage as a nonspecialized sheaf arrow longbow character, better inits at the cost of worse speed. Decent for doing an okay chunk of damage to, say, enemy wizards early on I suppose.
>>43844938
Death Frost Doom is fucking terrible. It's whole selling point is brutally fucking your players for something they cannot prepare for because the module explicitly tells the GM to make sure the players don't have access to the fucking resources. It is fucking terrible and anyone who claims differently is retarded.
>>43849505
go back to 3.5
>>43849505
If your party has clerics, you're good to go.
>>43849523
3.5 has super shitty modules that remove player agency too. Like ones where there are imps arrow fucking level 2 players to death with no warning. Death Frost Doom is entirely built around the gotcha. That opportunity for a shit DM to feel smarter and more powerful than his players, and it's just everything wrong with old school DMs. There is nothing creative or interesting about the player fucking either. It's just infinite zombies/ghouls on your ass.
>>43849548
Someone hasn't read the fucking module. It specifically recommends players of level 6 or lower. That is at most 12 hitdice of undead per spellcaster, in a module that throws literally hundreds of undead at you at once.
>>43849635
It only throws the undead at you if you bumble around and unleash them by breaking shit.
Don't be a dumbass and you can get in and out with a ton of loot. Be a dumbass and it's thousands of skeletons pouring out onto the map, and you'll need a whole campaign to put that genie back in the bottle.
DFD is awesome.
>>43849635
you know you can run away right?
you do know XP is gained from treasure and not fighting?
>>43849635
Someone hasn't read the rules
I
nvisibility to Undead*
Cleric Level 1
Duration: 1 Turn/level
Range: Touch
The subject of this spell becomes completely unnoticed by undead creatures for the duration of the spell. Undead creatures cannot see, hear, or smell the subject at all for the duration of the spell or until the subject does something to intentionally gain an undead creature’s attention (including attacking). This breaks the spell completely, with all undead in the area being then able to sense the subject.
The reverse of this spell, Undead Attraction, causes all present undead to ignore all living beings other than the subject until the subject is dead or until one of the ignored beings attacks the undead.
Oh, wait. You're probably one of those halfwits that has to kill your way through every encounter.
>>43849721
Not that guy, but I don't think a cleric of the appropriate level will be able to protect an entire party with that.
>mfw DFD with Kender
>>43849685
If you don't kill the plant, which fucking attacks you, then it's just wandering around a boring mostly empty crypt and collecting some treasure. It's not scary, it's not an interesting take on any of its source material, and it gives nothing to actually remember.
>>43849796
A single cleric, probably not, depending on party size. But who plays LotFP without at least 2 in a party? You do pretty well in DFD with a couple lvl 5 clerics.
>>43849827
The second version has something else instead of the plant. Some sort of horrible tumor thing with liquid souls in glass spheres embedded in its flesh. I think the specific trigger for the skeleton apocalypse was also changed.
>>43849721
Out of curiosity, is it reasonable to expect someone to use up all their first level spell slots on Invisibility to Undead in a module where he doesn't have any reason to think there's undead?
I mean, in a party of 3 (not much of an OSR party), you could use those 3 spell slots to return 3 full levels worth of HP.
>>43849844
No, that's not reasonable at all. You could argue that you should play LotFP as if it were 3.x, and be nothing but elves and clerics. This, however, is in no way a reasonable assumption, nor is it in any way reasonable to assume they'll use all their first level spell slots for Invisibility to Undead.
>>43849908
You're heading up a mountain to a cursed crypt under a cemetery, where rumor has it a cult used to operate centuries before. Why in the world wouldn't you expect undead?
It seems like you're grasping at straws to call this a bad module.
>>43849908
I my experience, we funnel a good portion of party treasure towards cleric scrolls. IIRC the lower level ones are cheaper, and the clerics can memorize the more expensive ones rather than having them scribed.
It's LotFP, you gotta be prepared for anything.
>>43849887
If it's changed in the second version great, but all I have to go off of is the first where there's a plant that attacks you for no reason, is blocking passage to a chunk of the crypt you're exploring, and is somehow the only thing keeping the undead in their tombs.
>>43849908
Is this the sort of a game where everyone should Multiclass as a cleric by default.
>>43847052
"Sir, why are there naked pictures of children on your computer?"
"T-that's not CP, it's loli"
"Put your hands behind your head, sir"
>>43849957
>>43849966
I don't think you can multiclass. But only having one cleric in your party is inviting TPK.
>>43849957
That's because it was placed there to seal the tombs, keep the dead asleep, and trapped inside. It's also supposed to keep others out.
You can get in around it, or destroy it and deal with the undead waking up.
>>43847855
I saw at least one other post by this guy about crushing someone in their armor earlier, so I'm inclined to believe it.
>>43850004
Suppose you go to the visitor section of a prison. Do you expect the guard to start shooting you from his point near the inmate door? When you kill him in self defense should all the prison doors fly open? If he knew the prison doors would fly open as soon as he died do you think the guard would at least try a non-lethal means of getting a party of heavily armed people out of his prison first?
>>43850030
Even having some sort of sign would be good.
>>43849943
>It seems like you're grasping at straws to call this a bad module.
I never said anything remotely of the sort. However, it does rely on totally unreasonable assumptions, similar to Tomb of Horrors but moreso.
>>43850030
That is a poor analogy IMO.
It's a magic seal designed to keep the undead cultists in, and prevent anybody else from getting in there and potentially being corrupted. They also seem to have assumed anyone trying to get into this place was likely a cultist already, which seems reasonable to me.
It's not like the place wasn't infamous. Even hundreds of years later, people know that you should never, ever go there for any reason, and that long ago terrible people did terrible things there and were punished for it, and the place was sealed up.
>>43849933
>reasonable
We're talking about the same system, right?
See >>43849956 that's how a party survives.
>>43849956
>I my experience, we funnel a good portion of party treasure towards cleric scrolls.
Does the game seriously have 3rd edition style magic marts?
>>43847372
>>43849990
A totally unreasonable assumption, on the level of bitching about people for not playing pure tier 1 games in 3.x. I assume the half of the party that isn't clerics should be elves?
>>43849973
>>43850055
>>43847768
Where has this 'Loli' meme come from? It's popped up on a few thread.
>>43849973
Such is life in a SJW European hellhole.
>>43850004
interesting, probably the most egregious case of a gotcha monster I've heard of in OSR.
>>43850129
Are you just quoting random posts?
>>43850108
You've read the rules? Page 76. ANY cleric can write a scroll, it costs 50sp. No magic Wal-mart required.
>>43850127
It may be unreasonable from your experience anon. Green Devil Face #1 was originally titled “Fantasy Fucking Vietnam”. There are usually casualties. It doesn't suit everyone's play style, but I enjoy it.
>>43850142
It's designed to be a gotcha for dumb murderhobos. Anyone with half a brain will catch the hints and avoid the traps.
Robilar would have aced DFD, too.
>>43850165
>It's designed to be a gotcha for dumb murderhobos
Knowing that you're supposed to not kill a monster attempting to murder you to avoid triggering the apocalypse isn't the bane of "dumb murderhobos."
>Robilar would have aced DFD, too.
Its easy to ace everything in a comfy, magic rich campaign with a kindly DM. Reading the gimmicks Robilar was allowed to get away with (unlimited amounts of fanatically loyal flunkies? Check. Utter shitloads of magic items? Check). He's not anything close to a normal OSR character..
>>43849985
Zak S. is a huge prick, but damn if the man can't write a good adventure. Thanks.
>>43850180
>casually convert gold into magic items
Troll harder my friend. Read pg 76. You're just making statements based in assumption.
If you don't like the game for whatever reason, you don't have to like it. But don't judge it when you don't know anything about it.
>>43849985
>statues on cover
>graveyard
Why wouldn't you a) get the fuck out of there, or b) prepare for undead?
Fucking blink, I still have problems with statues
>>43850164
Traps and unavoidable ambushes everywhere isn't unreasonable, that's just standard OSR. Its not appropriate to compare bog standard OSR with kill monster->receive nuke.
>>43850218
You ate the cake, didn't you?
If I wanted to run this thing, where would I go for the resources, like the book?
>>43850247
I'm a perma DM, not sure why every conversation about disapproval of X thing -> "lol your PC must a got epigally fugged that campaigN"
>>43850133
>SJW european hellhole
>Implying America is not even worse nest of SJWs
>>43850247
>You ate the cake, didn't you?
Not him, but what?
>>43850264
OSR general has a pretty big collection on Mediafire, they've got it and a bunch of modules for it.
>>43850247
LMAO the dm promised my character cake but ended up trying to kill her. HaHa DnD and vidya were such nerds amirite? I wonder if he played portal also doe
>>43850191
>Knowing that you're supposed to not kill a monster attempting to murder you to avoid triggering the apocalypse isn't the bane of "dumb murderhobos."
You might be a dumb murderhobo.
>>43850279
Huh, thanks.
>>43850316
do you think he knows the plant has zero movement ?
>>43850271
Its nothing compared to the likes of Australia, Russia, Britain, etc. where speech crime and hurt feelings results in jail time.
>>43850334
Not to derail the thread, but Russia? Really? I know you have to watch what you say politically there, but Russia strikes me as a place thats a but more blunt, rather than pandering to to politically correct nonsense.
>>43850316
Yeah, no, expecting people to think, "Oh, a horrifying monster is attacking, I must magically conclude that fighting back is going to megakaboom everything." Its pretty much metagame or die tier.
>>43850363
There are always other options other than fighting. And frequently, in LotFP, choosing an option other than fighting usually gets rewarded.
>>43850361
Of course Russia.
>rather than pandering to politically correct nonsense
The whole concept of political correctness ultimately traces its lineage to Russia, remember. Literally criminalizing the hurting of religious feelings (and I do mean literally, above and beyond hate speech laws).
>>43850377
>monster begins utterly catastrophically destroying your party
"wellp I better, uh, leave my party to die, and go climb up a cliff to play an organ to soothe it, and if I do that, there's a 75% chance nothing will happen anyway"
Its totally frigging bizarre to expect PCs to meander off on random tangent while their party is being fucked up.
>>43850427
You're style of play may be different than mine. When our group role plays, we go into it like it's the only character we'll ever play. It's more realistic for everyone to run from some huge threat than to stand and die before it. I know in real life if my crew were getting our asses kicked in, we'd get out of that situation and try to come up with a different solution to the problem.
>>43850427
It might not have a good answer, but part of the game is explicitly not having such clean or good answers to problems.
Lamentations is explicitly a 'weird fantasy' game. Challenging monsters directly is almost never the answer, and almost always results in dead party members or followers - Especially the weird ones.
Honestly, it's barely as bad as the RPG day module that has the main adventure being to defeat a group of witches in a town, and then has the witches defended by incredibly weird and unimaginably dangerous monsters that might fuck you up just for being in their vicinity, a giant cthulian insect god trying to regenerate itself and summoning swarms of things that can kill you as random encounters, and a middle-aged gay Raistlin motherfucker who wants you to travel back in time because he's too lazy, and he'll turn you into a small stone child if you give him sass
It's fucked up, it's weird, and that's the niche that the game wants to fill. If you want more standard fantasy, the game recommends you to use classic modules and worlds rather than it's fucked up versions.
>>43850485
> I know in real life if my crew were getting our asses kicked in, we'd get out of that situation and try to come up with a different solution to the problem.
Its not really a monster that you can run away from, you get DoT'd and paralyzed from its ranged attack. If the PCs IMMEDIATELY flee the room and win initiative, they have a chance, but getting out of the situation isn't likely an option once you've gotten into it.
>>43850489
>a giant cthulian insect god trying to regenerate itself and summoning swarms of things that can kill you as random encounters
Is that the part that you can only access if you dig a giant hole, and once you get down there the only way for anyone to survive is to let the others die and then be impregnated with hell-insects?
>>43850489
I'm familiar with how the game is (ie go through this doorway and your character is rendered an invalid who is constantly aging and regressing in time too fast to take actions ever again), and nobody took issue with the game's style until some bozo tried to dispute that DFD is a module about
>It's whole selling point is brutally fucking your players for something they cannot prepare for
Of course if the sole dispute was that its fucking terrible, and not that its all about brutally fucking your players for something they cannot prepare for, then mea culpa (other than that it wasn't my post that said it was about brutally fucking your players for something they cannot prepare for).
I wouldn't necessarily say the game's modules are terrible, but certainly Tomb of Horrors but moreso (ie Return to the Tomb of Horrors from 2e, then one step past it).
>>43850164
>Green Devil Face #1 was originally titled “Fantasy Fucking Vietnam”.
I'd love to read it, partly because its hard for me to imagine OSR as being anything but fantasy fucking Vietnam.
>>43850334
>Australia
>where speech crime and hurt feelings results in jail time
Speech crime and hurt feelings results in jail time in Australia because of the borderline authoritarian two party police state only agrees on passing laws centered around surveillance and restriction of private citizens and completely fails to make any progress with any other issue at all. SJW shit doesn't really fly anywhere except certain Sydney/Melbourne university campuses.
>>43850629
>Speech crime and hurt feelings results in jail time
>borderline authoritarian two party police state
>not SJW shit
Alright, I realize this is a tangent long past its expiration date, but imprisoning people for speech crime and hurt feelings is the essence of the SJW movement and precisely why they're hated. Is it just that they're not authentic rainbow-coifed netizens that they don't seem to qualify?
>>43850602
That's only if you want to go and say hi to the god in person, which is, as you say, a terrible idea.
The swarms of terrible parasite-bugs and other monstrosities appearing just from being in the same general time zone as it's bloated, mostly-dead corpse.
>>43850676
>pic
I agree with this unironically.
>>43850717
gas urself kike
>>43850754
I'm Viet, actually.
>>43849973
"Wait... why did you want a warrant to search this guy's computer again?"
"Well, your honor, some guy came in and told us that he used the word 'loli'."
"Ah, I see. Fuck off, dumbass."
>>43850379
Russia has it's own unique understanding of political correctness though.Everything is so fucked up here.
>>43847227
>very focused on player skill over character skill
>>43850363
It's a plant that only attacks if you try to hack it down or burn it.
It's also quite obviously the source of the strange, haunting melodies that play throughout the place, caused by the wind playing through its coral-like structures. Melodies which seem to twist the world, and are blatantly magical.
Anyone who's not a total moron and takes two seconds to think about it should be able to figure out that this thing is important and maybe it shouldn't be hacked down before you even know what it is.
>>43850676
Some random shitposting on a movie website isn't a very good source.
So what you're basically saying is that Australia's hard line and influential right wing nationalist voting bloc are Social Justice Warriors?
Alright, thanks for the information dude.
We're talking 1984 here, not Gamergate or whatever.
>>43845018
It blends design and writing to create a wonderfully evocative setting brought to life by pretty illustrations not like anything you've seen in any rpg.
The writing is very good. The main idea of the setting is that you dump your players into this grotesque, gothic fantasy world of 'Alice in Wonderland' meets 'Bram Stocker's Dracula' by way of recreational drugs. The world is built like a chessboard, everything is made up of great big squares with wildly differing terrain and culture. There are few inhabitants who do not serve either the red or the white side, groups of vampire-aristocrats who have been fighting and eternal war for control of the land and the few still living mortals with tasty red blood t suck. The war has been going on for so long that it has become absurd, the vampires and their leaders are all varying degrees of crazy and the laws of nature have been kicked in the balls and don't work properly at all.
>>43850916
>The irony of posting a Dark Souls image with that text...
>>43850916
That's standard OSR, try it first!
>>43846885
I mean one of them is literally fisted to death by skeletons.
>>43847768
Being Virt is no longer about being the person Virt, now 'being Virt' is just another form of existence. An undesirably one, at that.
>>43849985
The rewrite is really sick. It is a gotcha monster but it's such a big, impactful thing to happen in a campaign that I think it works pretty well. It is after all your decision on whether to use it.
In an OSR thread I will also sing the praises for Deep Carbon Observatory, which is a not-quite-Underdark module that is really good, and Fire on the Velvet Horizon, which is a no-rules bestiary book.
I would say that the two people behind those (Patrick somebody and Scrap Princess) are so fucking talented when it comes to D&D/monster design. I find Scrap Princess' blog hard to read/parse at times, but Patrick's, False Machine, is excellent. Shoutout also to Goblin Punch which does a lot of good content and also put out a pretty good module recently.
>>43844846
The Naga-thing is kinda hot, but the red-haired chick(?) looks really fucking weird.
VE VERE TOLD NOT TO KOME HERE BORK
VHY DID VE NOT LISTEN BORK BORK
DEATH FROST DOOM
>>43851855
I thought the same thing!
>>43851855
>thinking Dark Souls has a high player skill cap
>thinking player skill in vidya is anything like player skill in pnp
I'm embarrassed both for you, and that you're even alive.
>>43850489
Except when it is. If you don't fight say one of the various spiders with instant death poison it will just keep attacking you until you die. Also I thought it was said earlier that every player was supposed to bring two or more characters early on? Or were people expecting parties with like 12 players?
Weird fantasy as a get out of jail free card is dumb. The thing is that these out of place instant kill monsters, like the world destroy cold ooze in NSFW another free RPG day module, aren't fucking scary or actually otherworldly in any sense. They're just D&D monster manual baddies but you're suppose to forgive plot holes and act scared because "weird fantasy".
>>43850164
Except the expectations of what gets you to adventure don't support fantasy vietnam. It is built on the assumption that everyone is tomb raiding all the time. Which is you know the domain of murderhobos and idiot victorians.
>>43850099
Then why make an adventure about going up there and looting it? Why make a module where the whole point is for the players to ignore and not interact with a large portion of the module?
>>43848472
>Posts an image macro without relating it to the current thread at all. Calls OTHER PEOPLE retarded when they don't read his mind.
>>43852155
Anon, that was yesterday, you fucked up, why not let it go instead of trying to shift blame?
>>43850717
Fuck you.
>mfw half this thread is butthurt mad folk wailing about the unfairness of a module.
It's like hating D&D because you lost a character to Tomb of Horrors.
>>43853267
That is a considerably more valid reason for hating something compared to what most people use to decide they don't like something.
>>43853369
Eeeeh. You don't like football for losing a game in Fifa Vidya doesn't seem that good.
>>43853369
I played tic tac toe once and I lost.
>>43853608
>Using a reddit meme
Oh please fuck off.
>>43853604
The more realistic version would be hating football because someone else lost a game in Fifa Vidya and told you it was bad.
>>43853617
Nope. I'm on here every day, every thread.
>>43852017
>>thinking player skill in vidya is anything like player skill in pnp
Well, the similarity is that they both rely heavily on metagame knowledge.
The difference is that PnP has tradition of making all sorts of excuses around it while vidya is blatant.
>>43853632
>There are redditors browsing /tg/ right now
Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.
>>43853662
If there's one thing to be sure of, it's that OSR players will always have a mountain of excuses for their metagame munchkin bullshit.
Like, I've looked through optimization guides of the time. And they basically amount to "Browbeat the GM into using these unbalanced random tables for generating your character, and scour the monster manual, and NEVER TRUST THE GM"
LoFP is all the shitty parts of the bad old days of roleplaying games, with some modern polish on some of the mechanics, to make it less intolerable.
But it's still FUCK YOU I'M THE GM, ROCKS ARE FALLING, YOUR CHARACTERS AREN'T SPECIAL, DON'T EVEN BOTHER GIVING THEM PERSONALITIES SINCE THEY'LL BE DEAD ONE SESSION IN
>>43854030
Sounds like somebody's a shitty player who can't figure out how to play smart and stay alive!
>>43847794
Darkest Dungeons
>>43854052
Or had a bad experience.
>>43854030
forever butthurt
>>43854108
it could be both
>>43854108
Sure, that is a nicer way of interpreting it. But either way, DAMN he mad.
>>43849908
The module has the word Death in it brah
>>43854052
Tips for playing smart:
Read the GM's notes and module while he's not looking, to avoid deathtraps meant to kill you and remove your agency
>>43854108
Kiddo's probably never played an OSR game in his life. He's just throwing a tantrum cuz people like what he doesn't like.
>>43854167
If you play every game like its 4e
you're gonna have a bad time
>>43854163
Do people really tell their players the module name?
I can understand them using that knowledge for metagaming, but straight up being told the module by the DM is disgusting.
>>43851955
Dude, I was in the Old School when it was the only school, and if someone tried to give me the "player skill" spiel, I'd have walked away.
The OSR sounds too often like kids trying to do things as they thing older people did (I say sounds because I am aware that there are enough firsthand grognards that sport that attitude too).
>>43854167
So that's the only thing you think could save you, huh?
You know there were old school groups.who did the Tomb of Horrors for the first time with zero deaths to the traps, right? No reading the (as yet unpublished) module beforehand, just noticing clues and being careful?
>>43854227
I was there, too, and while yeah, we had dumbass murderhobos and metagaming munchkins like today, focus on player skill was still a real thing.
There were lots of ways to play back then, the OSR is just focused on a specific type of game that had vanished by the 90s.
Maybe your DM was different, but everybody's is.
>>43854228
That's exactly why DM's shouldn't roll behind screens.
>>43854167
That's like playing a video game with a strategy guide in your hands. Or reading a synopsis of a novel instead of reading the actual book. I mean, sure, now you can go through easy peasy, but you've also neutered the experience for yourself and everyone else at the table.
>>43854208
Dude, reading the GM's notes and causing a shitstorm when he isn't looking is a time-honored tradition that many a grognard over 30 has heard about.
>>43854266
I'm starting to feel like this isn't about DFD or the OSR at all.
>>43854290
>>43854266
trust issues I see
>>43854305
It's not trust issues. If a baby DM lets a group breeze through an adventure they didn't deserve, why should that automatically mean the adventure is well made?
>>43854316
Who said anything about that? What is your deal, dude? Do you need RPG therapy or something?
>>43854346
>Who said anything about that
See
>>43854228
>No reading the (as yet unpublished) module beforehand, just noticing clues and being careful?
>>43854316
But shouldn't a DM be afraid to kill his players? That would take away their fun.
>>43850717
Muslims are a fucking plague that only bring death and destruction in their wake
>>43844846
It's pretty GrimDark and hard to run any other way. I prefer my fantasy games NobleDark so I never really had much reason to play the game. I do like the simple encumbrance system, otherwise it's more or less a fantasy heartbreaker.
I've read Death Frost Doom and honestly I don't think it's very fair. A lot of puzzles in it boil down to experimenting with objects and environments to see what happens, because otherwise you can't progress. The problem is that a lot of these puzzles punish players for experimenting with them, and almost never reward them. Heck, some of the rewards are so impossible to figure out that you would HAVE to read the module in advance to figure it out.
Death Frost Doom is like locking six People in a blank, featureless room and giving them a box with twenty buttons on it. Six of the buttons do nothing, three of them causes candy to dispense from the ceiling the first time they're pressed, seven of them give you an electric shock the first time they're pressed, one of them opens the door to let you out, and two of them cause deadly gas to fill the room and kill everyone. The rewards are slim, the challenge isn't fair, and you'll probably have a much better time if you don't play it.
>>43854208
WTF has 4e to do with reading the GM's notes?
>>43854363
That was me. I said they did Tomb of Horrors WITHOUT reading the module, because it wasn't published yet.
I don't know where the fuck you got the bizarre notion that Gygax was a "baby dm" who "let a group breeze through an adventure they didn't deserve."
>>43854445
referencing a tv show is not limited to reddit newfriend
>>43854473
>I said they did Tomb of Horrors WITHOUT reading the module, because it wasn't published yet.
Isn't that obviously bullshit considering the difference in DM's? It clearly wasn't the Tomb of Horrors.
Also, Gygax was known as a huge hugger.
That's the big irony behind "Gygaxian" referring to Tomb of Horror-esque games.
>>43852017
The thing about Dark Souls is that it's not super-difficult, but it has the same sort of tone as a lot of old-school game. Be cautious, don't rush into things, pay attention to your surroundings, check for traps, fight only when you have to, and so on. A lot of the things that get you through a Dark Souls game are the same things that will get you through an old-school game, and that IS an issue of player skill. It's just that that skill isn't so much skill at the game itself, but skill at how to properly approach the game.
>>43854514
well either A. he had a THAT DM or B. he's a whiny little shit
probably C, Both
>>43854030
>LoFP is all the shitty parts of the bad old days of roleplaying games
That depends on what you're looking for going in. There's nothing wrong with wanting a game that's more about player skill and adversarial play if that's what everybody involved wants. Just because you don't like that style doesn't mean it's objectively bad, it just means it's not to your tastes. And that's okay, you don't have to like everything.
Just don't be a dick when somebody else happens to like something you don't.
>>43854526
"Difference in DMs?"
Gygax wrote the Tomb because his players kept whining that TSR's modules were too easy, so he built a deathtrap dungeon for them. Then he ran some groups through it to see how they did.
The best players aced it during their first run through, but most people died horribly to something. Even the ones who aced it were happy with how nasty it was, though.
>>43854406
>NobleDark
What
>>43854664
People are good, but the world is on a downward slide.
I don't see why you couldn't use LotFP for that, it'd work fine.
>>43854664
Grimdark: The world sucks, and you're going to die, but that's okay because you're probably part of the reason the world sucks.
Nobledark: The world sucks, but you're gonna do your best to try to make it stop sucking... and you might even succeed with a very small part of it before you die.
Grimdark is about despairing at a horrible world, nobledark is about having hope despite the horribleness of the world.
>>43854724
Grimbright is awesome, too.
>>43854664
What >>43854721 >>43854724 said, more or less. Some good examples:
Warhammer 40k is GrimDark, everything sucks and you're probably going to die a horrible and meaningless death, possibly at the hands of your own allies. Victories are pyrrhic if ever, and there's no real possibility for a meaningful peace of end to the conflict. The best you can hope for is a long, quiet life and a painless death, but good luck trying to get it.
Berserk is NobleDark, everything sucks but the heroes have the skills or tools to make a difference. Nothing guarantees that they'll succeed, but at least they've got a decent chance at it. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, a possibility that you can really change the world (or at least save some lives) with enough hard work and determination.
>>43854806
GrimBright can be pretty cool, yeah. I prefer Noble games just because I enjoy it when players actually shake up the status quo with their decisions. A NobleBright game is one without consequence, where things are beautiful and awe-inspiring but the character's don't really have any methods of -changing- anything. A good example is Sandman, it's so full of wonder but Dream's really more of a tourist than a force of progress or self-actualization.
>>43854163
>unbuttered toast
Well, I lol'd a little.
>>43854406
>Death Frost Doom is like locking six People in a blank, featureless room and giving them a box with twenty buttons on it. Six of the buttons do nothing, three of them causes candy to dispense from the ceiling the first time they're pressed, seven of them give you an electric shock the first time they're pressed, one of them opens the door to let you out, and two of them cause deadly gas to fill the room and kill everyone. The rewards are slim, the challenge isn't fair, and you'll probably have a much better time if you don't play it.
No, man you got it all wrong. That's in The Grinding Gear module.
>>43854689
This image right here is what sold me on LotFP.
>Be at gaming con
>Stall is selling this game
>Friend picks up a copy to look at
>Step in
>"Put that down, it's a shit system and the creator's a sad fuck who can't get a girlfriend, so he has all the women in the game die horribly in revenge."
>Friend lols, puts book down
>Walk away
>Second friend points out creator was actually standing at the stall and I didn't notice
>mfw no fucks given that day
>>43855662
>>"Put that down, it's a shit system and the creator's a sad fuck who can't get a girlfriend, so he has all the women in the game die horribly in revenge."
The system is okay in my opinion. Its second edition DND with streamline mechanics and the unnecessary oddballs rules removed.
As for the second part well.... where do you think you are?
>>43855662
Wow, you're like a badass. I'm glad I met you today.
>>43847861
I still have the books in my shelf.
But all in all they were never very fun.
Most of my players had their "sweet spot" in Expert and early Companion-levels.
>>43855662
Huh, I actually did this to a board game creator at Gencon, but your made-up greentext makes me feel slightly worse about it.
At the time I didn't even care that my friend said that it wasn't a cool thing to have done.
>>43855662
way to fight the patriarchy anon
>>43847033
Soooo... do we have a version with art?
>>43849698
You only gain experience from treasure if you kill to get it.
>>43856016
In the OSR thread's trove
>>43855814
If you criticise his game don't feel too bad about it is it. If you put your game up a convention you have to except the possibility of criticism.
If you call them sad fuck who can't get a girlfriend... Well yes that's below the belt
>>43854689
Who made these?!
>>43856107
Jason Thompson aka Mockman
he just did one for D&D 5e's Out of the Abyss Module
>>43856017
That's not a rule. In Basic it's specifically 1 XP per GP of non-magical treasure that the players "recover." So it has to be gold you acquired from the wild and brought back to civilization, but you don't actually have to kill anything in order to get XP for it.
So is there any way for Summon to NOT bring the game to a grinding halt while you spend half an hour trying to roll up random monster stuff? It seems like an interesting idea, but hell to actually implement in the middle of a desperate battle.
>>43856600
Make a computer program for it.
Worries of the Cinder Lady
>>43856600
http://summon.totalpartykill.ca/
>>43856600
>>43856638
Wat do?
>>43856772
Lewds
>>43856638
>>43856772
Hmm, that'll do. Thanks! I wanna give this a try with my group sometime soon, and the GM is on an old-school gaming kick (trying to do it with Pathfinder, and not very good at it, but he's trying), so I figured this'd be a good time to try. But I just know somebody would choose this spell solely for the sheer fucked-upedness of it, so having an easy option to generate stuff will be very helpful.
>>43856772
whore it out
>>43856119
Thank you kind anon
>>43855932
>fighting the patriarchy
Every edgelord metalfag is one bitchy girlfriend away from becoming a nu-male.
>>43856772
Anti-matter demon...
...wat?
>>43856772
Just wanted to see wat whacky kinds of demon you could roll up and got
>You fucked up. You have summoned Imaginary Equation, Incorrect yet True. That's not going to be good.
So...
>>43857711
If you say so champ, we're in awe of your virility and your hardcore style.
>>43857992
Pg 141
Imaginary Equation, Incorrect yet True
Make have is the to and of them meaning numbers power order no sufficient no. 1 ≠ 1. a = b, b = c, c > a. 0 > ∞. f ≠ f. a + a = a. (x + 1)2 = x. To act player must roll dice not his own, multiple dice only multiple owners, roll unimportant just pile of dice with most owners wins. Count sideways, subtract behind. No decision = no action. All actions accompanied by spontaneous spellcasting of 1d4 level random spell. Random targets, in hindsight calculated. Clerics retain faculties, keeps time slipping, must kill the stalwart stabilitist to stabilize. Kill until it is dead. First to next sleep dies as brain flees.
Still, it's better than Lust of a Betrayed Lover
(I'd never run that with a table of neckbeards)
>>43858118
Cut your hair, Olaf.
>>43858253
>a + a = a
a = 0. Apocalypse averted.
>>43856772
Counts as a monstergirl, right?
>>43860287
where is the line between monstergirl and furry?
>>43860338
You put it wherever you think will help you sleep at night.
>>43858253
So, the gibberish here is stilistic, right?
>>43858253
Ok. So what do you do if this thing gets summoned? Both as a player and a referee.
>>43850334
The only kind of speech that will get you in trouble in Russia is the kind delivered in a "punk prayer" on top of an alter in a cathedral.
They have hooliganism laws (it's Russia, you'd want them too if you had to live there) to stop people from getting drunk and trying to dance on historic monuments.
Someone didn't tell George Soros that though, so he funded his dyke brigade to go try and embarrass Putin, and instead got them gulaged in a mitten factory in the Ukraine somewhere.
>>43860287
If at least 80% of the face is human, it is a monster girl.
