Where are my Corsairs edition.
Get Ready for Farsight Edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
Damn I fucked it up.
>>43706582
WHICH EDITION
>>43706582
>lose an antenna on one of my fire warriors
>have to spend $10 on ebay to get a new one
>>43705102
Since their inception, vehicles have been balanced in points to compensate for how easy (or difficult in some cases) it is to destroy them. Similarly, monstrous creatures have been costed for their toughness (or lack there-of), and anti-vehicle weapons have been costed for their bonuses.
Now in my opinion (Tau player) Riptides and Wraithknights are undercosted, but that's a problem with the points not the rules. Look at it another way, you think Rhinos and Trukks would be dirt cheap if they were monstrous creatures? The game isn't going to suddenly become balanced because you decide that every walker now uses toughness.
I'm ready for Farsight edition.
Needs to know me some formations that aren't The Eight.
And if there's a different core in the Farsightcurion, assuming the Ravenguardcurion and Whitescarcurion are representative of supplements giving alternate versions of main Decurions now.
>>43706620
Got the same problem. Just cut a bit off one of those handheld sensors and stick that on. Or file down a piece of a spare pulse weapon. Or just fuck it and pretend he's a badass mofo who doesn't play by your rules, Shas'o.
Has anyone tried the Great Waaagh! Detachment or the Council of the Waaagh! formation? I'm thinking about using the Ghazghkull supplement to try and get more favorable missions for the Boyz.
>>43706621
The problem is this, at the core:
Regular units roll on a save table.
Vehicles roll on a bad things happen table.
>>43706663
Why are Killa Kans vehicles, but Meganobs infantry when they're nearly the same size and shape?
>>43706715
Better Question: Why are Killa Kans the only codex unit for Grots besides regular no wargear Grots?
Goblins have ...Well, had... Plenty of variety. Goblins and Grots are fun.
Where is my varied, insane Grot army GW?
>>43706621
Different anon, but there's the option of giving vehicles an armour save. If you compare AV in general to toughness, an AV14 vehicle is fairly comparable to a T6 MC. S4 "wounds" them on a 6, S6 "wounds" them on a 4. But they are weaker in that instead of just damaging them, they get additional drawbacks if you exceed the roll. Furthermore, that MC may have a4+, 3+, or maybe a 2+ armor save to help survival. Now if a fleshy carnifex with hardened bone plates has a 3+ armor save versus a bolter, then surely a tank could too?
Give vehicles an armor save and glancing vehicles to death becomes that much harder, and vehicles stay alive longer.
Eldar vehicles could have a 4+, Tanks like rhinos/chimeras a 3+, and land raiders a 2+. AT weapons with high AP become THAT much more useful and worth their costs.
Whats your favorite piece of fluff that no one ever talks about tg? Here's mine
The hollow shells fired by the stormshard mortar are packed with thousands of inch long steel flechettes, each industrially sharpened into the shape of an aquila. Thus when a stormshard shell airbursts above the foe it fills the target zone with lethal, whistling clouds of inescapable Imperial justice.
>>43706663
>get more favorable missions for the Boyz.
What? If you're saying you want to try the missions go and have fun but never use them for random/pick-up games, they're too specific in their mechanics to just show up and use them. without having both you and your opponent tailor your lists accordingly.
As foir the formation, it's a deathstar in an edition that kills deathstars and it's expensive as fuck (Ghazzy and Grotsnik alone are 400 points). Bully Boyz are nice if you have the 15 Meganobz models (the Apocalypse version is even better), Blitz Brigade can be fun but you'll have to put your whole list in it. The green tide is the green tide. The other formations seem situational at best.
As for the detachment itself, the extra elite slot is nice but unless you plan on using it, it's not worth losing the finkin cap, the lucky stikk and screwing up your mob rule.
>>43706763
Old Ones are canonically Slaan.
That's pretty rad. The frog wizard/roboskeleton war.
>>43706690
So what? Again, that has usually been taken into account with the points cost.
What are you actually complaining about? That monstrous creatures don't weaken like a vehicle? That your vehicles aren't awesome enough?
>>43706738
Mek Gunz are a "gretchin unit", flyers have the Grot Gunner option (too bad we can't take it on a Stompa) plus all the "assistant" grots that you can take.
Then you have Grot Tanks from FW.
Grots are orks butlers and meatshields, we'd all like to see some more love towards them but apart from BS3 there's not much to build upon.
>>43706801
That vehicles turn to shit if you fart in their direction unless they've got crazy AV or an invulnerable save.
Dunno if you've noticed anon, but most people don't field mechanised lists nowadays.
>>43706801
Its that the rules are so much better for monstrous creatures than they are vehicles. Hull points should just go away. And why are some armies big walkers not vehicles? i.e riptide, wraithknights.....when clearly they are in a suit of armor with a guy inside "driving" them making them walker, not a monstrous creature.
>>43706837
I'm well into the camp of making more things Monstrous Creatures rather than the other way around.
You really only need that "Rear armour" thing on a walker when it's not agile enough to defend itself.
Dreadknight should be a 10/11/12 Walker.
Yep, lowest AV in front.
Because it's a fucking baby carrier with an exposed pilot, Temmie Armour or no. Give him a 5+ and you're done.
>>43706779
RAW the Ghaz Altar of War missions can be rolled off for if either player wants to use them. They give some small advantages to Orks in general.
>>43706755
What you're asking for is a complete points, special rules and balance overhall of the entire game. I don't trust GW, let alone a group of fa/tg/uys, to make that change. Would it make vehicles tougher? Sure. Would it make the game more enjoyable? Questionable. Would it completely fuck up 40k until years later (and maybe not even then)? Definitely.
>>43706889
Hah yeah almost like changing how Rapid Fire works without redoing all the weapons balanced around the old way rapid fire worked.
Or taking out wargear psychic powers in favour of random tables and an overly bloated extra phase.
Or taking out the Skyfire/Interceptor interaction but leaving the points cost of all vehicles with both those rules untouched.
GW would never make a sweeping change completely overhauling how the game works, right?
>>43706861
Just like a Stormsurge? A giant walker that litterally squats on his ass expanding his asshole to accept the tactical Melta Shot....
Oh wait, it's a Gargantuan Creature so NONE OF IT MATTERS,
I'm perfectly fine with my trukk exploding turn two as long as it costs just 30 points (Altough i want it to explode with S3 again), but the fact that the riptide is a creature and my Deff Dreads aren't is just WRONG.
>>43706956
Yes.
The Riptide should stay a monstrous creature, the Stormsurge should be a walker. Plain as day to me.
>>43706956
AYY same problem here bro.
>I got 99 walkers and a riptide aint 1
>>43706969
Shit, hit post too quick:
Deff Dreads are a pretty blatant monstrous creature, yeah. I'd agree with that call.
>>43706837
With the exception of particular units, monstrous creatures being better has been taken account for in the points costs. Making tougher vehicles means more points.
As for why some monsters aren't vehicles, fuck knows. Stormsurge is basically an open-topped walker, but I suppose you can make an argument for Wraithknights and Riptides basically being like Jaegers (from Pacific Rim) - an extension of your own body.
Alternatively, GW just followed the codex rules. Smaller battlesuits and wraiths had infantry stats so bigger versions just had upscaled stats (into monstrous and gargantuan creatures).
>>43706861
>>43706985
A removal of hull points would fix vehicles.
>>43706934
Just because they did it in the past doesn't mean I want them to do it again.
>>43706998
Kinda?
It'd be an improvement, but that said? Vehicles have always swung between too bad and too good between editions. Anyone remember the parking lot days?
>>43706888
Sure, but a necron will have little to no fun playing in a Boss Fight battle considering he has almost no characters (just an example). As I wrote they're fun but i'd ask as to prepare for it.
>>43706998
"Fix vehicles"? Some of them need small points tuning (or occasionally big ones) but otherwise they're working fine, unless you're complaining that your rhino isn't lasting until the end of the game.
>>43706884
>Temmie Armour
Oh god
Is that why Temmie Armour makes the game overly easy?
Is it a 40k reference?
Fuckin' inbreeding nerds and their fucking references.
>>43706621
MC's dont suffer movement/# of weapons fired penalties.
MC's cant lose a weapon or get shaken, stunned, or immobilized.
MC's arent getting exploded!.
MC's dont have weaknesses on their sides or rear.
Theres no justification whatsoever for the significant power gap between MC's and AV. Giving certain factions MC status for their robots/walkers is just adding insult to injury.
When I read Tau players try to explain why it all makes sense it only reinforces the stereotype that Tau attracts retards. At least Eldar and Mech players acknowledge the flaws in that line of thought.
>>43707006
Fuck, I don't even like how flyers distort the game.
Positioning is awkward for the flyer player, trying to hit it is awkward for the other.
It doesn't make either more likely to win, it just slows shit up.
>>43706801
>So what? Again, that has usually been taken into account with the points cost.
Oh really? Go on and explain how AV units are costed appropriately then. Because it sounds like youve already made up your mind without considering the issue at all. Other then 'its fair'.
Stay obtuse and self-centered, typical Taufag.
>>43707096
Technically, vehicles do have a number of advantages over monstrous creatures in that they are immune to fleshbane and instant death. It's a very small consolation compared to all of the advantages MCs have over vehicles, but it is something.
>>43707149
How dare you?
My blog shall hear of this.
>>43706884
Then SM land speeders must have AV9 on the front, because of the exposed power armoured crew. Storm will be AV8, because of scout armour.
But what are you bitching about, Dreadknight already uses the terminator as its save. 2+/5++. It's already as weak as a terminator in terms of its save.
>>43707194
>How dare you?
>My blog shall hear of this.
>>43706956
An OPEN-TOPPED mech with two visible crew is a GC lol. By that logic shouldnt Sentinels be MC? Why is the Mechanicum ROBOT an MC but a Defiler (flesh and mech) isnt?
Face it Taufaggot. You got MC and GC rules to drive sales. Just like every other robot/walker that got MC status. Trying to justify it spotlights your idiocy.
>>43707204
I think he still just hates the model and hasn't gotten over it. To be fair, it is pretty silly.
>>43707193
Outside of pure Str. vs. T terms (to which vast majority of MCs are immune to due to T6+), how many ID weapons do we have? And sure, poison and fleshbane and all that. They still get their saves and FNPs in most cases, so it's even less of a risk.
Meanwhile vehicles are subject to the far more common armourbane as well as haywire.
Just get rid of walkers.
I want Dreads to be intimidating again.
>>43707245
Something I should have mentioned is that I have a slightly different view of the prevalence of ID weapons due to being a GK player. I, for one, welcome the MCs being absolutely everywhere. The rest of my armies aren't exactly happy about it, but I love how Tau players think they're safe because all of their shit is MCs.
>>43707193
Well by that astoundingly retarded logic, MC's have an advantage over AV because theyre immune to armorbane and the melta rule.
Whats it like to be incapable of seeing any perspective but your own? You know thats directly proportionate to intellect right? You're too stupid to consider counters to your point until theyre spelled out for you.
>>43707280
Yeah, we're just safe because you're trying to charge shit with jet packs and your army is pretty easy to bash down through weight of fire.
>>43707216
>You got MC and GC rules to drive sales.
or because the rules for MC beter reflect what they want it to do in the crunch, ie. jetpacks, and gets hot actually mattering
if GW would fix the vehicle rules, they could fix walkers, include many current mc/gc, and possibly even fuck around with bikes. but all of that is talk for another edition, in 7th walkers tend to end up as knights, or killa kans, with little in between.
Tyranid players:
I am making a fun to play against all swarm list with a melee focus.
Help me write a 1250 and 1850 list?
I have 60 Hormagaunts and 30 termagants, 6 warriors, 20 genestealers and a broodlord so far.
I'm looking for Melee Monsters as bosses. I want a carnifex and then maybe a trygon. Swarmlord with hiveguard sounds mean.
What else should I be looking at? Help is greatly appreciated.
Doesn't have to be competitive, but I'm specifically looking at wargear feedback. Want to drown enemies in melee and be able to go toe to toe with dedicated melee troops and win.
50% of the time.
Thanks fa/tg/uys.
>>43707291
First of all, I'm not the person you were talking to earlier. Second of all, if you actually read the post you're responding to, it would be obvious that I was merely pointing out that it is not reasonable to make only a one-sided list of comparisons. Thirdly, you're a cunt.
>>43707216
I think you misunderstood my sarcasm for me defending the stormsurge. If you kept reading you'd have noticed that I play orks but no, you just had to post and bully a poor greenskin player.
And bullying of an ork player is like hitting on a cripple.
I'M GONNA TELL MY MOM!
>"hey anon come play 40k with us"
k
>kinda want to play orks, like the fluff (have read horus heresy and other 40k literature) and the melee horde style
>keep hearing that orks are shit and bad, low tier army
>intimidated by friends that are playing eldar, space marines and tau
>go with crons,
>drop some cash on 500pts, book and 3 metal shades & 3 green shades
>play 6-8 games, dont like it at all
>constantly inching my way trough the battlefield annoys me
>i just dont like playing necrons
should i just switch to orks right away or continue crons?
As someone who started playing during 6th edition, what were vehicles like before hull points? Could they only be destroyed with an Explodes! on the damage table? Was there a different damage table for glancing hits?
>>43706582
>Warhammer 40k General
>Everyone gang up on the Tau player Edition
>>43707349
Shyamalan twist:
I play CSM in rhinos
>>43707216
The advanced Tau suit tech essentially make their suits part of their bodies. This is what I have heard and I'm alright with it.
I kind of dislike the tau, but realizing they are mindless brainwashed space communists under a horrifically oppressive big brother government makes them more palatable. That and the Ld7 is the tastiest target for my Fear effects, which I have tons of.
I love watching them break in melee and being torn to pieces with whatever survives shooting.
>>43707354
Bike MSU would be the way to survive as an ork player, that and tankbustas in trukks. If I were you I'd cut my losses with the crons, if you don't enjoy it you don't enjoy it.
>>43707317
You'd be surprised how well it works if you're aggressive-enough. A lot of Tau players are far too passive and tend to let themselves be surrounded because they're fixated on supporting fire. Good Tau players are terrifying, but most of them that I have met use their special rules as a crutch and end up shooting themselves in the foot.
>>43707373
Yeah. There was a glance table.
Only pens stood a chance of booming.
Also, the type of weaponry that could nuke them was rarer. Like, at one point Railguns were the most powerful non-blast weapon in the game.
Was nice.
>>43707342
Flyrants; obviously, no one is going to complain about one casually. Its when you start adding them after that, even two is still manageable in most games.
I'm a fan of shrikes myself, they're very mobile synapse providers with a decent stat line and point cost. Run them stock, and stay away from anything S8.
Swarmlord is just to expensive and lacks an invulnerable save outside of CC, sounds good in theory, seen him go down a bunch of times to missile launchers. Just avoid him, play 2 carnifexes in his stead, or more warriors.
>>43707402
Yeah, most Tau players around here do static, unmoving gunlines with very few non-riptide suits.
It's kinda pathetic how easy it is to pick apart once you weather the first two half hour long shooting phases.
>>43707096
..So? All those bonuses to Monstrous Creatures have (or should have) been taken into account with the points costs. Making MCs and GCs have similar weaknesses would require a lot of rules and points changing that, whilst good in theory, would take ages to actually implement in a balanced way. This is GW we're talking about here.
As for why certain MCs have walker status and visa versa, that's ultimately up to GW but you can't fault anyone for trying to draw logic from it. Hinting that they're retards doesn't help your case.
>>43707107
Preach it brother/sister. It's just yet another thing that you have to plan around. If your enemy cheesed out of Night Scythes and you only brought one Aegis Quad Gun? You're fucked.
>>43707373
Look up articles on the "Leaf Blower" lists that dominated. Blood Angels in Razorbacks were terrifying. IG parked squadrons of Russes and Chimaeras and erased players before they could even move.
I feel like vehicles are too soft now. It's a shame Russes are terrible, with only a few (rather silly) variants seeing play.
I miss 3rd edition.
>>43707349
haha. go blog about it with that other guy.
>>43707354
we all end up as ORK players. Green is best, and don't let anyone tell you they suck. I rarely lose with my orks, and when I do lose.....its to other orks
>>43707384
Everyone can agree to hate a few things together: Nazis, skeletons, zombies, and tau
>>43707425
Its like this anytime I ride up to the GW store. I put my objective in the middle and their faces are like why did he do that? I'm coming over there to hit you with my stuff.
>>43707425
I've only ever played against a few people like that, but it's always amusing to rip them apart with an army they think sucks. Most of the Tau players around me are just strange. One of them actually runs a very balanced list but tends to give up too easily, a problem compounded by his impressively bad dice. I also used to play a lot against one that had a hilarious tendency to table himself with overly aggressive deepstrikes. It's just unfortunate that there's so many bad ones out there.
Hey /tg/, anyone has this extract?
>>43707354
Greentide lists are great. Fuck the haters.
>>43707417
You can't assault when flying and I don't want ranged weapons though. Shooting is for tau.
>>43707096
Vehicles do have some advantages over MCs, namely being considerably harder to "wound" (an av12 vehicle, which is medium armour as far as vehicles go is as hard to "wound" a a t8 MC which are extremely rare; most MCs are comparable toughness to av10 vehicles). The problem is that MCs typically have invulnerable saves (note that the ones that don't ie. Nids ones are considered pretty rubbish, as most anti-tank weapons wound them on 2+ and don't give any saves), have more wounds than vehicles have hullpoints and don't suffer a bad result for losing a wound.
Also, yeah, Stormsurge being a GC makes no sense. I see Riptide being an MC because it's a bigger version of a battlesuit, which are all infantry models, and is a lot more agile than most walkers are, but the Stormsurge is described in its own rules as being more like walking tank than a battlesuit (it's even piloted by two veteran tank pilots using manual controls, unlike the battlesuits where the pilot's neural system is hooked up into the suit).
Being a SH would probably be an improvement for it, though, as superheavies ignore most of the vehicle damage table (which is one of the reason vehicles suck) and if it was a vehicle it would likely be considerably harder to "wound" than t6 3+ save, and less vulnerable to grav and warp spiders which currently murder it. Plus you wouldn't have to argue with people about whether it can fire more than two guns whenever you wield it.
>>43707465
>Hinting that they're retards doesn't help your case
Well its pretty obvious why certain units like the Riptide, Stormsurge, and Mech Robot (Castellax?) got MC, which was to drive sales. Theres a guy inside a Dreadnought too. A Defiler and a Helbrute are actual flesh and bone monstrous... creatures.
Trying to find reason in any of it certainly does make you a retard. The reason is sales, end of story.
>>43707569
>The reason is sales, end of story
or because the naming convention doesn't reflect crunch to fluff well
>>43707194
I SHALL PERFORM A LARP OF THIS DAY
>>43707604
>representing crunch to fluff
Yeah, thats probably why. GW was concerned the crunch wouldnt make sense with the fluff. That explains why this remote controlled robot is a monstrous creature.
The naivete of 40k fans is awesome.
>>43707541
Walk them then, but its much easier to kill a walking NID MC than any other in the game. You should definitely take a full squad of venomthropes for the cover save against anything AP3.
Also, Tervigon, fre objective holders is to good not to play. But tervigon goes down to pretty much anything that dedicates itself to it. T6 is nice, but it doesn't make you invincible.
I'm personally a big fan of Hive Guard. Impaler Cannons don't need line of sight to hit anything. Bury them in some line blocking terrain and let them shoot. 24" S8 AP4 no line of sight needed, about the best NIDS has to offer.shooty though, even though you said you didn't want to. just an fyi
>>43707604
Honestly, I think it's just a legacy thing. GW knows full well that people would rather have MCs over walkers, so they make those. Dreads have been walkers for five editions, so they remain walkers. Hellbrutes are just renamed chaos dreads without the happy go fun table, so they remain walkers. I honestly can't remember the last totally new walker they put in the game that wasn't a superheavy.
> Monstrous Creatures are OP
> Tyranids are shit
Make up your minds people.
>>43707670
>missing the point
allow me to clarify, ignore the name, the rules for MC better reflect the crunch GW wanted, the crunch represents the fluff.
>>43707689
>can't remember the last totally new walker they put in the game that wasn't a superheavy
Forgefiend/Maulerfiend. Which probably should be an MC if logic were to be applied.
>>43707545
I think we can all agree that the Stormsurge being a GC is a pile of wank.
You raise a good discussion though. For those who've played against/with it, how is the Stormsurge? T6 3+ save actually sounds worse than a Riptide and the gun doesn't look like much to rave about.
>>43707569
Yeah, like any TCG, 40k suffers from power creep and being leashed to a publicly traded company.
Still, it's not like there aren't any lore reasons for some stuff. As the anon I replied to above mentioned, battlesuits are meant to be more agile than most walkers, whilst Helbrutes are derived from Dreadnoughts which were walkers. I know some of this looks like grasping for water but I like to think the designers weren't just working for the bank.
>>43707689
Dreads got buffed to such an absolute extreme this edition that I literally haven't played a game where I didn't bring three of them. If GW turned around and then made them MC's, I'm pretty sure that my next efforts would be to make an army of nothing but dreadnoughts.
>>43707699
NID MC are the worst of the MCs
>>43707699
Nids are shit because theyre not a shooting heavy army. In the shooting is easymode edition.
>>43707730
Maybe the new CSM codex next year will make them MCs!They'll be T5 with no save.
>>43707752
Daemons have less guns.
Daemons are strong.
Newfag here with a question. If I want to give a character a unique piece of wargear (e.g Lions Roar for my DA Company Master) is it enough to announce that he has the piece of gear or should the model have a Kombi-weapon to display it? I know it doesn't matter if I play with friends, but I just want to be sure.
>>43707734
>I think we can all agree that the Stormsurge being a GC is a pile of wank.
>the Stormsurge is a pile of wank.
Tau player here to confirm that the stormsurge is basically a massive FU to deathstars and wraithknights, especially if ITC rules are used.
Not that it doesn't slaughter infantry as well, the thing may not be strictly better that a riptide, but people don't relay know how to deal with it yet.
>>43707670
For the robots it might actually be partly because of how the unit works: they have the infantry model Datasmith in the unit, and while there's no mechanics issues of units containing MCs and regular infantry models (they both have toughness, so you just use majority t for wounding), there are no rules for handling vehicle squadrons with non-vehicle models as part of them.
Although I think the FW robots are MCs as well, albeit with some special rules (I think they're immune to poison but vulnerable to haywire, at least).
>>43707734
>but I like to think the designers weren't just working for the bank.
Thats the curtain anon. If the designers arent on board, then theyre out. Its evident in rules, balance, release schedules, new products. Theyre doing this to make money, not provide a well balanced game with an airtight ruleset.
>>43707730
I forgot about those. They're probably walkers because GW hates CSM. They really, really should be MCs. It makes more sense from both a fluff and crunch perspective.
>>43707741
I took dreads all the time before this. It was suffering, but I love the models. I just wish that they went over the weapon cost. As it were, I'm half-tempted to throw an extra CCW on all of them and claim that they're ironclads.
>>43707778
Ok then you tell me. Why do Nids suck.
I wouldnt mind hearing you stumble through an explanation on why Daemons are good either.
>>43707734
It can buy a 4++ save which actually makes it very tough (easier to wound than a Riptide with fnp when shot with ap>2 weapons, or ap 2 if the Riptide doesn't have the shield on, but with more wounds), and the pulse drive is a very nice gun (it's like a demolisher cannon with long range) that you can potentially fire twice a turn. It also has 4 missiles that can be made sD, and a ton of anti-infantry firepower.
All in all, it's expensive but can put a lot of hurt to multiple different kinds of units and is quite durable as well.
>>43707807
WYSIWYG is a topic a lot of uptight people (on both sides) feel very strongly about, and it's going to depend on where you are. If you and your friends are fine with you just saying "He has Lion's Roar," then go for it.
>>43707839
Nids suck because a lot of their shit is completely overcosted, and they overestimated how good a lot of their durability is. For example, Warriors dying to stiff breezes.
And we've just found someone so ignorant he thinks Daemons suck, lads.
>>43707342
>I have 60 Hormagaunts and 30 termagants, 6 warriors
The Endless Swarm formation might be worth considering.
>20 genestealers and a broodlord so far
Garbage. You might try one of those stealer formations that allow Infiltrating withing 6" of the enemy if done in ruins as a "Distraction Carnifex", but totally useless otherwise.
>I'm looking for Melee Monsters as bosses. I want a carnifex and then maybe a trygon. Swarmlord with hiveguard sounds mean.
Buy a Tyrant and Tyrant Guard, don't bother with Swarmlord. Trygon Prime with Toxin Sacs is 240 pts and can be pretty intimidating. Works also as a source of Synapse.
>but I'm specifically looking at wargear feedback
Give 1/3 or 1/2 of the Termagants Devourers and leave the rest with Fleshborers or Spine-Fists. Don't bother giving Hormagaunts anything, not worth the prices. Melee Tyrant does well with 4 Talons, so no real need to give other weapons unless you want +3 to Initiative from Lash Whips. Toxin Sacs for 10 pts so you can wound T7 on 4+ and can re-roll wounds against T5. The Haywire template for 10 pts for Overwatch and killing vehicles.
>>43707373
You could lose vehicles only by explodes or being immobilized and all guns destroyed.
This made chimeras glorious to field.
Autocannons were worthless.
Melta dominated. Assault was still viable. Fliers didn't exist.
I erased people off the board with two basilisks, a manticore, and 2 valkyires. The Leman Russes and guardsmen were there to hold the line.
It was amazing.
so im fairly new to the game but im kinda stuck, i keep changing my mind as to what army i wanna play with. theyre all narrowed to space marines though
i started my own space wolves army and then sold them for dark angels and then sold them and started blood angels which i still play with. then i tried tau and sold them for grey knights so i currently have 2 armies.
im not short on cash so thats not really a problem but i keep seeing other chapters and really wanting an army. ive staved off starting a salamanders and imperial fists army so far
my question, i guess, is that if i start an army from the space marine codex.. im torn between astral claws and celestial lions... perhaps maybe ill just start my own, can i use parts from other armies?
so for example; if i start a celestial lions army could i use the Lugft Huron model for them rather than astral claws? or kaldor draigo in astral claws colours?
could i use the nipple armour from BA?
what about if i used space wolves stuff like terminators for the pelts?
i know that obviously you cant use codex specific squads, like sanguinary guard or the space wolf flyers.. or can you but state theyre something else? if you could i guess thatd be down to the other player being cool about it?
i appreciate any advice, i just wanna use the parts for aethetics like the armour and pelts really other than a HQ
anyone else suffer with switching armies a lot?
also is there any where i can get lion themed bits?
>>43707699
When people say "MC are better than Walkers", they mean "Tau MC are better than Walkers".
Tyranid monsters are pretty mediocre, so everyone just forgets they even exist
>>43707807
Rule of thumb is to at least make an effort with the WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet. A modded bolter or a combi weapon will be great, but you'll only really need it for the minority of players. As long as you remember what you've put on who and are cool with reminding your opponent if they forget then you're set.
Of course, that's just my experience. Your locals might have different rules so it's worth checking in with them.
>>43707839
Nid MCs don't have any invulnerable saves, meaning they essentially got the worst part of being an MC compared to being vehicles (plasma and such wound you easily and give you no saves) without the added durability of having at least a 5++ save like most MCs have. They do have some nice guns on some of them, but tend to lack the bs to really make use of them. They have the spore pods to get their melee MCs into the enemy's face, but it helpt only a little when any ap 3 still murders them easily.
Nids also have a special rule that actively bites them in the ass (if they lose synapse, you're probably fucked).
They could theoretically be good (lots of MCs, easy access to fearless, have some nice guns along with good assault), but they're currently overcosted and have some very bad rules. If you buffed the Hive Guards' and shooty MCs' bs to 4 and made synapse grant fnp to give them some protection to weapons that ignore armour, I think they'd actually be pretty good.
At least daemons have a whole bunch of extremely fast units that can easily get turn 2 charge and have invulnerable saves to give them some chanse of surviving the 1 - 2 turns of shooting before they get into melee, plus some extremely powerful psykers and the cheese that is rerollable 2++ saves.
>>43707752
Nigga, we have the codex: Brainleech Worms at the moment. They can be a shooting army if someone only sees the effort of creating a shooty list
Hunter Cadre:
Commander-two burst cannons, drone controller, xv84 suit (markerlight and target lock), two marker drones-157
2 crisis suits-4 fusion blasters, 2 target locks, 4 gun drones-162
2 crisis suits-4 plasma rifles, 2 target locks, 4 gun drones-162
12 fire warriors w/ Shas'ui-118
12 fire warriors w/ shas'ui-118
8 fire warriors w/shas'ui-106
5 marker drones-70
10 gun drones-140
10 pathfiners-110
sniper team-6 drones, 2 spotters-116
Optimised stealth cadre:
Ghostkeel-ion raker, fusion blasters, CDS, EWO-150
Stealth team-6 suits, 2 fusion blasters, 2 target locks, shas'vre, homing beacon-220
Stealth team-4 suits, shas'vre, homing beacon-140
Unbound units:
Commander-two plasma rifles, drone controller, target lock-128
Hazard suit-two ion thingies-100
Remora stealth drones-4 drones-360
2357 points
damnit it's those stealth drones that are fucking with me and I want to field them the most.
>>43707948
That.. That actually sounds amazing. I'm tempted to experiment with homebrewing it up with my friends to bring back that system in our games. Then again it would probably make the Demi-company absolutely terrifying.
I have this one friend that made a homebrew called "Synapse-40k", for Vassal. Basically the gist of it is that at the start of each turn, both players write down the actions for their entire armies for the turn on a secret note.
Each unit had two actions, which could be split between Movement/Wait, psychic, shooting, and assault in any order. And you could double up on any action; like for example sit still and shoot twice.
Then when both players finish writing their notes, they reveal them to each other. The battles are then resolved in two steps; First action in order from movement/Wait, psychic, shooting, assault, and then the second action was resolved.
It kind of made artillery and vehicles quite terrifying, as double-shots with multiple weapons were pretty hardcore.
>>43707839
>Why do Nids suck
>>43707354
>>43707483
This.
After 3-4 armies I ended up at Orks and literally cannot play anything else. You're gunna get shit on but its better than hating what you play.
>>43707354
I know a similar feel anon
>have AoBR orks
>hyped as fuck for codex update
>buy some lootas to tide me over
>work on lootas
>codex drops
>urge to finish lootas dies
>...
>holy shit they added admech finally
>buy skitarri codex
>keep meaning to buy models but I keep getting dirty looks from the half-finished lootas
Boyz, I care about you...I really do...it's just I can finally get crazy tech weapons that are not just "a part of the fluff" but are actually reflected on the table.
>tfw I'd switch back if they actually put the "kustom" and "looted" back in Orks but I know that'll never happen.
>>43707541
Get a flyrant regardless. 12" gliding movement, 4++ cover constantly, possible re-rolls for charge range.
Hive tyrant - wings, Old adversary, scything talons, lashwhip/bonesword, adrenal glands, toxin sacs. (Or swap toxin sacs and lw/bs for the reaper of obliterax).
This thing will mulch riptides and wraithknights in CC. just don't charge into terrain or you're fucked.
A mawloc is better than a trygon. You lose some attacks, but you gain hit & run and 2 S6 AP2 large blasts when he comes in. VERY useful.
Shrikes are wonderful as mop-up units. Lw/bs, ag, ts, flesh hooks. Swap out lw/bs for rending claws to save points. Always charge with gaunts first, then your main beater.
If you can get the haruspex in cc without getting shot to pieces, he'll be an amazing tarot against anything not wielding a powerfist/thunderhammer/hammerhand. Always give him at least adrenal glands. Regeneration is very iffy on him, but he'll last longer in CC with it. Mulch through a blob with ease.
I always run a tervigon in a tyrannocyte. Drops the bug in their backfield, and spawns a unit of termagants. Gaunts act as harrassment, mobile cover, and then in later turns as suicide charge units so your Frontline beaters don't receive overwatch. Tervigon can use Electroshock grubs and crushing claws with adrenal gand to do some damage to backfield tanks.
>>43708096
>start with orks
>kinda like, but not really
>try daemons
>can't stop playing daemons
What happened
>>43708053
Slap a Neuroweb System Jammer on one of your Commanders. It's 2pts and can save you in a tight spot.
Good tactic in the new Hunter Contingent is to focus on MSU (multiple small units). That way you have more teams that can coordinate firepower and get +1 BS. Shas'ui isn't optimal in that situation of course, but you'll be losing squads anyway.
I'd also see if you can squeeze in a Fireblade. You get that awesome run-then-shoot move, but you still get his bonus for standing still in the movement phase - for all firewarriors that you link up with! I don't know how attached you are to them, but I'd take out the gun drone squad to get the points for this. That'll also give you the space to split the pathfinders up and maybe get a few more marker drones.
They really should just get rid of the vehicle damage table. It's a relic from the days before hullpoints when it was the only way to destroy vehicles (and I don't think we should get back to that, as spamming tons of av12 vehicles used to be ridiculously good because how difficult destroying even one could be if you had bad rolls and lacked ap1).
That way vehicles and MCs would be cnsiderably more equal. Vehicles would be harder to "wound" (most MCs are equally hard to wound than an av 10 vehicles is to glance; you can also kill most MCs with bolters if you have lucky rolls while all but the lightest vehicles are completely immune), but they have less hull points than MCs have wounds (MCs commonly have 4, or even 5 or 6 wounds, while vehicles rarely have more than 3 hp), and only rarely have invul saves. Haywire would still be considerably better against vehicles than poison is against MCs, though, as MCs usually get armour saves against poison.
>>43706763
Nid venom cannons fire adamantium cases rounds meaning that nids can digest/manipulate metals or have bio-metallurgy capabilities.
>>43708273
I don't give a shit about tactics I just want to field my favorite units but those fucking drones are keeping me from getting it to 2000 points.
If I paint my Corsairs red, do I have to run them as CSM?
>>43708291
>Nid venom cannons fire adamantium cases rounds
>"These powerful bio-weapons fire salvoes of corrosive crystals at tremendous velocities which shatter on impact to shred the foe."
>>43708301
No
>>43708189
Ya Zogged up
>>43708301
No, they're just red Corsairs.
>>43707968
Deathwatch is an organization of Marines drawn from a huge variety of chapters across the galaxy. They paint their armor black and silver but leave one shoulder pad in the original scheme.
They're a fun way to spice up your army with variety, because you can have everyone in a squad be from a different chapter. It also works with how you're running Grey Knights, because the Deathwatch are also an arm of the Inquisition.
>>43708464
Do they go fasta?
>>43708496
No, but they're Corsairs. The probably rape you betta.
>>43706755
Kind of agree that something like should be used, but more like the upgrades they already have. They just need to be made best in general to balance out all the vehicles like grot tanks are stupid good with 5+ Inv they have. IG should have something similar with their extra armor. And Necrons need their 3ed. Living Metal Rule back and we can keep the HP then.
>>43708057
Demi-company in 5e would've been terrifying. Guard were considered OP because we brought about 4-6 tanks to the field. More, if you used Russes. But people were fond of using melta vets. A squad of melta veterans was 155 points in a chimera. Very spammable.
Against a double demi company GSF.... Jesus. You're looking at 6 rhinos/Razorbacks for the marines. Razorbacks for the devastators, and some jump marines. You could haul ass with the rhinos for a turn 1 ram attack, because you could still ram and flat out back then. You'd get like. 18 inches of movement, and you'd do... Lessee... A strength 7 or so hit to the chimeras front armor, and then you'd unload marines next turn. Because you'd stay stationary in that turn, you'd be able to assault the turn after.
But only guard would be able to field enough lascannons to murder that army.
Someone told me that psychic powers were overpowered because they're all or nothing and if you bring less then the other guy you lose.
What do you think /tg/?
tier list on armies that can use psychic powers n shit
them being: eldar, SM ,CSM, GK, BA, SW, DA, daemons, orks, nids, IG, harlies
just put those in best-worst order
>>43708888
Where's Admech?
What are the best websites for buying 40k shit in terms of permanent discounts off GW prices, shipping rates and customer service?
Haven't bought anything since Maelstromgames started scamming people and went under.
>>43708888
remember when NIDs could have biomancy powers? Those were the days, once the new codex dropped and they no long could, I sold my army. Never looked back.
>>43708971
admech has psykers?
>>43708977
>Haven't bought anything since Maelstromgames started scamming people and went under.
were you one of those people scammed?
>>43709010
I was thinking electropriests, but looking at them they seem to be more Volgin than Magneto.
Help me tg
I'm currently running demons but I want to also do necrons what should I do
>>43709011
I was actually but I got my money back easily thanks to visa protection. I wasn't really mad because a while before I had scammed them out of an extra Necrosphinx.
I just tend to stick with one source when it seems to work, too wary to find others. So.. any others?
>>43707216
>You got MC and GC rules to drive sales
So why aren't my Orkanauts GC's? Surely if GW is using rules to drive model sales they'd qualify.
>>43708888
Top tier
>eldar
>daemons
good tier
>harlies
>GK
>CSM
medium tier
>SM
>DA
>Nids
shit tier
>orks
>IG
>>43709145
If anything, what Orkanauts need is their own special rule that just gives them the "Immune to the damage table" part of the Superheavy set. They're literally as big as a knight, and play like a knight, and even cost as much as a knight. Yet every time I've played against them, they always died right away to explodes results.
>>43706998
Great, my Orks would get WORSE.
Not only are all my open-topped vehicles just as prone to being blown up by everything from heavy bolters to heavy flamers, but now my Rokkits can't even bring down enemy vehicles. Hell, non-AP1 and AP2 weaponry would then be unable to actually do anything to Super-heavy vehicles.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of revamping the vehicle rules, but just removing hull points is simply going to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Armies that don't have access to lots of AP1 and AP2 weapons are going to get supremely fucked over.
>>43708997
I wish we could have them again. I can find use for all the Biomancy powers through out the game, but I can't with Tyranid table.
I roll Horror? Half of my opponent's army is Fearless. I roll Onslaught? Well one, maybe two units may run and shoot in the entire game. Warp Blast? I already have 6 Zoanthropes. The nova power? Can't afford to waste charges on that.
>>43707193
>Technically, vehicles do have a number of advantages over monstrous creatures in that they are immune to fleshbane and instant death.
Neither of those are advantages. They're immune to fleshbane but vulnerable to armourbane. They're immune to Poison but vulnerable to Haywire (and I'd much rather be immune to Haywire thanks, since it knocks a wound off on 2+, instead of a 4+ for most Poison attacks). As for Instant Death, vehicles trade immunity to the Instant Death rule, which is very, very rare, for potentially suffering Instant Death against EVERY AP1 AND AP2 WEAPON IN THE GAME. Needless to say, those weapons are just a touch more common.
>>43708363
Quote was sourced from nids 3e dex
>Invaders drop to 12 Marines in 941
>fighting an Eldar Craftworld and a Tyranid Hive Fleet in 999
They don't fuck around.
>>43709260
Its why I quit playing nids. You know how awesome Flyrants are right now? They used to be T9 S9 Flyers that could land, shoot, and then assult.
>my pants get happy just thinking back to the good old days.
>>43709299
And we 6th ed now
>>43709318
They're taking their Primarch's lessons on endurance too far.
>>43708977
Frontline offers 20-25% off GW.
>>43709145
Orks are a collectors army. You could make them the worst army in the game and they'd still sell kits.
And it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize you cant make every army OP, or else none of them would be OP. Then you would lose the fotm, WAAC, tournament sales.
>>43709344
Fuck your Cruddace source, mine still stands since they're not mutually exclusive.
I hate the whole Tau player argument that their units are considered MCs and GCs because the tech makes their suits an extension of their body and they cant tell where their body starts and their "suit" ends. By that logic, Every Titan would be a GC along with knights. Go read God Machine, it gives a pretty good view on Imperial Titans. Also, how does removing exploding parts, shrugging off armour penetrating rounds, and suddenly be affected by poison match them better fluff. You faggots are pulling at straws trying to justify your bullshit.
>>43709531
It's because Fuck You why should our units suck?
R8 fun list.
Tau Empire (995/1000pt.)
Primary Detachment
Hunter Cadre
Commander (160pt.) Crisis battlesuit; Command and control node; Puretide Engram Neurochip; Multi-spectrum Sensor Suit; XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit;
6x - Strike Team (54pt.)
6x - Fire Warrior (9pt.); Photon grenades; Pulse rifle;
6x - Strike Team (54pt.)
6x - Fire Warrior (9pt.); Photon grenades; Pulse rifle;
6x - Strike Team (54pt.)
6x - Fire Warrior (9pt.); Photon grenades; Pulse rifle;
XV104 Riptide battlesuits (225pt.)
1x - Riptide Shas'vre (225pt.); Riptide battlesuit; Nova reactor; Riptide shield generator; Ion accelerator; Twin-linked smart missile system; Early warning override; Stimulant injector;
XV104 Riptide battlesuits (225pt.)
1x - Riptide Shas'vre (225pt.); Riptide battlesuit; Nova reactor; Riptide shield generator; Ion accelerator; Twin-linked smart missile system; Early warning override; Stimulant injector;
2x - XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (135pt.)
1x - Broadside Shas'ui (70pt.); Broadside battlesuit; Twin-linked high-yield missile pod; Twin-linked smart missile system; Target lock;
1x - Broadside Shas'ui (65pt.); Broadside battlesuit; Twin-linked high-yield missile pod; Twin-linked smart missile system;
4x - Pathfinder Team (44pt.)
4x - Pathfinder (11pt.); Photon grenades; Pulse carbine; Markerlight;
4x - Pathfinder Team (44pt.)
>>43709571
Because forget about armies that need some loving?
>>43709571
More like "Fuck you, why should my units be comparable in strength.
>>43709571
>implying knights suck
walkers are just really hard to balance, and end up being rather janky, and considering a Tau army could be nothing but battle suits, no one wants to play an all vehicle army.
>>43709585
>1k point game
>2 Riptides
>Funlist
>>43707807
1. Magnetize Weapon Options.
2. Dark Vengeance Company Master and Many Other DA specials the combi-plasma upgrades and are readily available for cheap on
3. Ebay; a great source for bits, but try going to your FLGS and trading a marine player for a combi-plasma
4. If you are a DA player I would be more than happy to build you a list. 15 Years of playing DA, >50% win rate in a competitive environment, I mostly play fluffy shite lists these days so as to not stomp my friends to the point they don't want to play.
>>43707930
Endless Swarm and the Genestealer Hunting pack are the two things I've bought so far. As you've said "Distraction carnifex". I've actually had some luck using them to engage units tied up by the swarm, so they don't take that crippling overwatch.
I have been looking at the Trygon. Sounds mean.
>>43708161
Problem solved; run your Orks using admech rules counts-as.
>>43708888
Librarius Conclave is pretty amazing, ignore the guy who put them mid tier.
>>43709585
Why two riptides? Are you the Tau player from this at thread who's going up against the Nid player?
>>43707812
Old Artillery units were pretty much infantry and an AV10 vehicle forming a single unit.
I remember when Tau first released and they were laughably bad. So were necrons. How things have changed...
>>43709585
Drop the pathfinders and a squad of firewarriors and take tetras.
>>43709585
>This is what a funlist looks like in 2015
>>43709531
The real question is not why Tau mechs are MC but why are other mechs walkers?
>>43709630
>Problem solved; run your Orks using admech rules counts-as.
I've actually seen a very cool looking "Waagh! Convocation" army, with looted Amech stuff, Big Mek wearing the red robes and carrying a looted omnissian axe as the Magos, kyborks as the battle servitors etc.
ii wanna play orks but im intimidated by the fact that i need to move 100 models/turn and it takes time
is it really that bad
>>43709585
I'd switch out the sms on the riptides, fusion would probably so you better.
>>43709441
Thanks man, I'll check it out. Found Waylandgames. They ship to my country with 20% off and a voucher for free shipping over 30 GBP to boot. Pretty fucking sweet right off the bat!
>>43709671
>Tau players
>Any sense of what is fun
Pick one
>>43709713
No. You move the front models and then you fill in behind it. The front of the horde really all that matters anyway, as you are going to disordered charge the enemy's entire battleline once you get there.
>>43709713
speed freaks
dreadmob
otherwise you'd better git gud at moving models
>>43709622
>>43709649
>>43709671
>>43709714
>>43709728
He's a troll, he posted the exact same list in the last or second to last thread.
But at least back then he tried to write something more than
>R8 fun list
Not only troll, but a lazy one too
>>43709785
>implying we don't enjoy taking the bait.
>>43709785
a lazy troll but everyone gets played all the same
>>43709671
It's 2015. Cmon.
>>43709785
I didn't know it was a troll. Normally I'm good with telling what is bait and what isn't bait.
>>43709713
Try this, really helps. Every model will be exactly 2" from each other. Maximum spread. Otherwise get a thin strip of metal, put a small magnet on the bottom of your orks, and move the strip to move 5-10 bodies at a time.
>>43709861
Poe's Law strikes again. There genuinely are people out there who would think the list posted above is a fun list. Probably because there's no Stormsurge.
>>43709880
Helps if I attach the image, huh?
>>43709917
>Tau
>Funlist
Pick. One.
>>43709861
That's because it fits so well your average Tau player. Riptides up the ass and playing the "tactical genius"
>MFW I really want to play IG, but the cost scares me away
It's almost 3 dollars for a single Guardsmen.
>>43709973
I got a nice discount on all my guard because I bought from a non-GW store, maybe look around for something?
>>43709917
>>43709951
I must rise against the bait. Problem is what happens when a list like that shows and the poster isn't trying to troll?
>>43710036
>against
Above I meant.
>>43706998
They did that several editions ago. It either led to vehicles being ridiculously powerful or them being utterly useless, depending on how the glancing/penetrating tables looked at the particular time.
To be honest, vehicles have been pretty fucked since 3rd edition. The AV system was never particularly good, much like how AP has always been problematic in the binary nature of save/no save.
I mean, I'm not saying WHFB was perfect, or even balanced, but one of the things that game got right was armour. Armour piercing should be a penalty to the save, not just an on-off switch. You don't necessarily need to add the whole high strength penalty to armour (though I have to wonder why a S7 swing from an Ork Nob has an equal chance of penetrating power armour as a S3 Grot), but at least do something to not make armour saves as fucked as they are right now. Also, vehicles just had regular statlines.
They've had four chances to make calibrations to the basic 3rd edition mechanics now (five if you count the 3.5 codices), and it's fairly obvious the basic system is pretty much busted to the point where keeping the system the same and just making small balance changes simply doesn't work.
>>43710034
Well, Frontline gives a 20% discount, but that's still something like $2 a Cadian. My FLGS sells stuff at MSRP sadly. Recasters, maybe?
>>43710036
Despite what many people may say, I don't think that list could really be considered serious, for the simple reason that the riptide is the single model that is considered overpowered by the greatest majority of players. Some units may be worse, but none has had an OP reputation as long as the riptide, so any person trying to make a fun list would try to avoid including a riptide or,at worst, they would take only one
>>43710091
What's worse than the Riptide? Wraithguard?
How does one contact chinaman
>>43710166
Wraithknight, Wraithguard (anything Eldar with access to D weapons, really), anything with automatic access to Invisibility, Exalted Court, Battle Congregation, Warhound. At least the Riptide is somewhat of a slave to the Random Number God.
>>43710166
Pretty much the entire eldar codex is better than a riptide.
So guys, what do you think about my anti-that guy countermeasure?
I play Tau and bring an Optimized Stealth Cadre but not use the ability. The only thing the formation gives you is that one optional ability, afterall, I'm not forced to use it and I won't if I'm playing against a cool guy.
But if he turns out to be a dick, I'll Wall of Mirrors his shit in.
>>43710286
>Warhound
Wouldn't Reavers and Warlords be more OP?
>>43710287
But the D. A Craftworld full of Wraithguards makes a riptide look like a kitten.
>>43710299
Sounds like a plan, Anon.
>>43710299
My buddy is bad at 40k and I'm glad the Optimized Stealth formation exists so he has a chance of not getting rekt.
>>43710319
Reavers and Warlords won't see play in most games. They're just way too costly, both in points and cash. While a Warhound is expensive, you can still fit one in most standard lists and put out 4 D Strength pie plates a turn.
Hell, play Chaos and you can give it an invulnerable save to boot.
>>43709247
>non-AP1 and AP2 weaponry would then be unable to actually do anything to Super-heavy vehicles.
And that would be bad because...?
Super heavys are worth shit if they can be glanced to death by shitty haywire or mid-tier damage weapons. Hell, you can kill a baneblade with fucking scatterlasers if you shoot it in the back..
>>43710508
I would have guessed that those two wouldn't see much action, but I'm still wondering why a Warhound be considered OP when it's bigger cousins are more OP.
Can a librarian and knight be in the same unit for the purpose of psychic powers?
>>43710623
No.
>>43710596
Reavers and Warlords are more powerful, but just don't fit until a point level where they can potentially be dealt with. Like>>43710508 said, Warhounds can sneak into games where a Superheavy is madness. More powerful is not the same as overpowered if the points account for it.
>>43710465
Help teach him, bruh.
>>43710382
Thanks man. I'd hate to be That Guy to a cool player but man I love Ghostkeels so much. I'm going to go against my nature to assemble fully before painting most likely, just so I can pose him and paint every detail to the best of my abilities.
I played several games today but in each and every one my terminators got shredded before they could do anything, is there even any point in using them?
There's so much AP 2 everywhere it seems so pointless.
>>43710596
Because Warhounds are actually an option in a regular game. A Warlord is hypothetically overpowered, but it's overpowered in the same way some random 13 year old's homebrew special character is overpowered. It's completely irrelevant to 99.99% of the playerbase, because they will never see it hit the table in a regular game. Also, Reavers aren't really better than just getting two Warhounds, considering they have less firepower and aren't really any harder to kill than a pair of Warhounds. The Warlord is ridiculous, but then again, it costs more than most entire armies, so it probably should be.
>>43710299
Take Infiltration Cadre and retaliation cadre. The stealth teams get homing beacons and don't die so your battlesuits arrive all at once, automatically, and don't scatter. Plus if anyone in the retaliation cadre is killed you get all your other reserves on the board automatically.
The stealth cadre is less cheesy because you need to be 6" of the ghostkeel, which is template city, and your holophoton projectors only work once.
>>43710738
So Warhounds are the *insert your name* the Hedgehog of 40k?
>>43710749
The point is that I don't play cheese tau, but I love the Ghostkeel and want an anti-Cheese counter with optional cheese of my own. I ain't buying all them models, man.
>>43710749
*anyone in the infiltration cadre is killed
Why are Daemon Princes considered so good, exactly? I sincerely don't see it, when they die like punks if they're not swooping, and can't earn their points back if they're gliding, because they'll never be able to charge. Not to mention that a kitted out one runs like 350 points, or that Vindicators/Melta Guns/Force all laugh at them.
>>43710788
I'm speaking under the assumption that you probably have enough models to fill out both formations minus maybe the piranha which is pretty cheap and an awesome unit so you ought to have one anyway you fucking square.
>>43710726
Not really. They're cool, and that's about it. aP2 shreds them, but at least that would make your opponent waste big guns on your Termies. Unfortunately, mass infantry pewpew also beat the everliving fuck out of them (and is arguably better at it since they do just as well against TH/SS Termies), so it's pretty hard to justify taking them over units that can fit more bodies on the table for the same points.
But they're super cool though.
>>43710809
Sorry man, I see we both misunderstood each other. I don't have a lot of them models. Apologies for the confrontational tone, didn't mean it.
>>43710845
fuck you anyway
>>43710726
maybe start to stack invuls like grey knights or dark angels t5 do?
>>43710800
they're the swiss army knife and haveglass cannon syndrome. a daemon prince with daemon weapon will slaughter a unit easily, can be geared towards any role, and can be taken in multiple slots.
those monsterous creatures that are tougher (riptide, dreadknight, bloodthrister) usually have a higher toughness or better save
>>43710800
The one big problem is their retarded t5. Make them t6 and t7 with MoN (or atleast eternal warrior) and i might even run one or two.
And yes, flying monstrous creatures should really be able to land and charge in the same turn.
Melta blast or Ion Raker for Ghostkeels? And which TL system?
Also thinking of going FnP and either Advanced Targeting system (if Raker) or shield gen to protect against ignores cover.
>>43710784
I think you mean the Warlord. And well, it's basically a model meant for stores to run special events or retards with way too much disposable income. It's so large you can't really use it on standard tables, it's almost 3000 points, and it's largely immune to anything but other super-heavies (or a couple of units of Wraithguard). It's more of a cool setpiece than an actual usable model.
And in the fluff, you still have the Imperator, which is even larger and killier. To be honest, even the (relatively) small scout titans are way too large and killy to really be used in standard 40k. I miss Epic ;_;
>>43710935
Melta blast is puny in terms of firepower, the ion raker puts out more for the same points.
Flamers are just about pointless so burst cannons or fusion blasters, I'm keeping fusion blasters on because they're more useful.
Stim injector and counterfire defense system.
>>43710876
i understand the change to flying, in 6th with limited anti air or flyers in the game they were terrors and you could be sure that bloodthrister was gonna take your skull for khorne.
it's an outdated change like not being able to charge from vehicles when you disembark
>>43710948
>titans are way too large and killy to really be used in standard 40k
>Epic
Hopefully that will come back.
> retards with way too much disposable income
Isn't the manta just like that though?
>>43710935
Ion primary, fusion secondary. Always.
If you want to go suboptimal gimmick, double fusion is okay in the optimised broken cadre because it's fucking ignores cover AP1 so the massively lower number of hits matters slightly less.
>>43710683
I'm trying, but he works so much he doesn't get to play often.
>>43710726
I just DS them near something as a really hard objective holder, but it's a waste of points desu. They were terrifying back in the day.
>>43710859
T5 terminators barely helps. Going T5, 2 W and giving stormbolters assault 3 shred would go a long way to fixing them IMHO.
>>43711036
so more like oblits and devastator centurions? it would help against the small arms fire
GW sells gift sacks now. Also has anyone seen this yet http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-11-16-you-need-to-own-your-ip-livingstone
>>43711101
>http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-11-16-you-need-to-own-your-ip-livingstone
He's not wrong.
>>43711082
It would give you a reason to take them. 15 S4 AP5 shots would wipe 9 GEQ per turn, making them a threat you would NEED to deal with. Even against MEQ, terminators would drop three. They should bring back assault from deep strike and infiltrate again. Make things interesting. Also, allowing assault from rhinos as disordered charge at -2 inches would be great. Failed charges move the lower of two dice forward still. If you fire overwatch you don't get to shoot the next round.
There. I fixed melee in 40k and made terminators dangerous again.
>>43711036
termies shouldnt be t5 2+ 5++how about F12/S11/R10 HP2 5++
>>43711134
Given British IP laws I can see why GW's crazy about protecting their IP.
>>43711036
>Going T5, 2 W and giving stormbolters assault 3 shred
They're just centurion/obliterator clones if you fucking do that.
Let them re-roll their armor saves and 5+ invuln. Make storm bolters salvo 2/4. Give them WS/BS 5. Bam. Fixed.
>but muh chaos
marks are exponentially more valuable with re-rolled saves and higher stats, and the option to go power weapon+combi-weapon is enormous
Just turning them into another fucking multiwound infantry blob fixes nothing.
>>43710788
If you want options you have to buy models, simple as that. Bikes are good but if I don't like bikes or don't have a lot of bikes, tough shit. Same with all forms of transports. I don't want to buy a bunch of Rhinos but too bad marines are unplayable on foot.
>>43711030
>>43710985
What if you routinely face high AV and have mostly troops? S7 is nice but that's glancing AV13 on 6s..
>>43711168
>>43711036
They just need a rerollable 2+ so they don't die to lasguns, as fluffwise walking into lasgun fire without a scratch is what they're meant to be doing. Same chance of failure as back when they were 3+ on 2D6 too.
>>43711003
>in 6th with limited anti air or flyers in the game they were terrors and you could be sure that bloodthrister was gonna take your skull for khorne
And now it takes 3 turns to assault with one if summoned by Conjuration/Daemonkin.
I can remove units by deep striking and shooting them into oblivion, but god help me if I fly to someone's face and give them a whole turn to deal with it before I charge
>>43711191
>>43711168
>>43711036
Or instead of giving them a shit ton of extra rules, drop the points cost.....
>>43711199
There are superior methods of delivering fusion at roughly the same cost. 140 points of ghostkeel will also get you two fusion suits which carry four fusion shots, though survivability is less
>>43711159
Charge after getting out of vehicles/ability to consolidate into combat
>>43711199
No, it's glancing AV10 or 11 because you're either running stealth cadre, or have melta crisis for that.
>>43711197
I already have a nice fun complete army mate, I just wanted to add a ghostkeel because it's a rad model. Stop overthinking.
>>43711275
Yeah but I don't have crisis suits and they're pretty expensive.
>>43711227
Just give them +1T like bikes so they're actually hard to wound and maybe get an option to get a apothecary in termie armour so they can take advantage of their higher toughness value.
>>43711302
Let me clarify. I run 2 squads of Fire Warriors, a Fireblade, a Commander and a stealthsuit squad and for the rest I ally in non-cheesy necrons.
No crisis suits, no riptides, not even markerlights. Just don't much like the models or schtick.
>>43711227
have you ever tried to kill a unit with 2++ rerollable? it's pretty annoying to fight
>>43711248
those are the beats and burden we must carry my brother from another chaos god worship
>>43711302
Everything's expensive.
What are the tiers for the armies overall
>>43711191
Salvo 2/4 makes stormbolters much worse for infantry carrying them. A rerollable 5++ seems a bit much and makes the Storm Shield redundant.
>>43711227
Their damage output is too low as well.
>>43711249
At 160 points for five I think they would have a place at their current stats.
>>43711312
There are a few ways to get TDA Apothecaries. It helps less than you'd think, because you give up a powerfist so you can get a 5+++
>>43711312
For some reason, GW hates the idea of apothecaries being useful. Restricting them to command squads is pointless.
>>43711345
Yeah fine, just I can't justify buying oodles of models at this stage of my life. Most of my armies were gifts to begin with.
I simply want to make the best with what I've got. Ion Primary and Fusion Secondary seems to be a good deal. If I face more armour then I can handle, I'll stick on the Collider. Afterall, I'm going to magnetize.
>>43711413
It's an MC, run up and smash things.
>>43711375
Ravenwing/Thunderwolf Cav/Librarius
Eldar
Necron Decurion
Space Marine
Tau
Imperial Knights
Admech
Spacewolves
Greenwing DA
Grey Knights
Ork
Imperial Guard
Tyranid
Deathwing
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels
Chaos
More or less. Some people will argue finer details. This edition is all about abusing allies and formations, so few people play straight lists. It's all composites.
>>43711425
... Oh yeah. I forgot that part. With 3 attacks base, it's not like I'd be losing much by choosing to smash.
>>43711249
that would be even more un-fluffy than it is right now (and thats saying something)
Terminators (and all space marines for that matter) are supposed to be one man armies who dont give a shit about lesser enemies and their puny weapon fire.
I just dont get it.. Space marines are the face of the setting and look really badass in every book or videogame and still, GW treats them as mid-tier infantry..
Tactical marines should have the current termie stats and cost while termies should be as strong as the current dreadnoughts.
>>43711343
>those are the beats and burden we must carry my brother from another chaos god worship
The 7th edition's change to Swooping just really annoys me. I mainly play tyranids and I seriously have little to no reason to take a melee oriented Flyrant over the shooting one. Hell, the 7th ed made the shooting one even more powerful by making it harder to ground FMC. And the people who bitch about fast assault see their units destroyed by brainleech without any chance of retaliation and I guess they feel a little bit better that at least they didn't have to bother with the assault sub-phase
>>43711382
well they're not that common and you can't be passing out feel no pain like cand- oh never mind the iron hands and red scorpions get it everywhere
>>43711425
it's kinda funny to picture tau mechs getting into combat and flailing around until you realize they can actually destroy stuff with s5 robo fists
>>43711498
The original loadout of my commander was drone controller and onager gauntlet.
>>43711469
That wouldn't sell models. While I personally love the idea of a 10 man tactical squad, 5 terminators, 3 scouts and a dreadnought being able to hold back 1250 points of stuff...that's just never happening.
>>43711498
My buddy is a former blood angels player who built melee tau. They are actually pretty mean. Double flamers on every suit,drop in and then charge,an onager gauntlet and farsight to chop shit up, plus kroot inflitrating to run up and join in the fight. It has surprised a lot of people.
>>43711538
40k needs a total rework closer to the fluff and without any initial thoughts on marketing
But therfore, GW would have to be gone..
I like tanks, teeg.
I like them a lot.
I ONLY like tanks.
On a scale of 1-10 how much rage would it cause if I brought an unbound army of just leman russes to a pickup game?
I only have one rusty lemon at the moment, but in a fantasy world I'd have a full tank company, 12-24 lemons. I just don't want to invest that crazy munz to only get to play apocalypse events.
>>43711027
Not really the manta takes all the negatives of a super heavy flyer and loses the main positive (snap fire).
As a transport it isn't that amazing either as you could get the same effect as the manta (only better) simple by starting on table, infiltrating, scouting, deep striking, or outflanking as appropriate per model.
In terms of guns most of its guns don't even have the range to shoot to the other side of the manta they are so short and if you want the D guns just get this other sexy beast instead which you could buy nearly 7 of (and field 4~) per manta.
>>43711643
>GW would have to be gone..
Let FW do it all from now on.
It would be mary sueish to have the fluff for my chapter to say it doesn't have a limit on the number of men who can be members of the 1st company?
I just have a lot of Sternguard, Vanguard and Terminator models...
>>43711708
It's not sueish at all.
One of my homebrew chapters doesn't have a first company at all, instead each company equips its own veterans as they see fit, and thus each company is above the standard 100 marines.
