Can non-martials be likeable and well characterised?
I've never seen or heard of a bro tier wizard.I'm asking because I'm playing an arcane caster in a group of newbies, and I want to be as great as I can be for them. The system is pathfinder, but the GM likes it so let it slide.
>>43705633
>Can non-martials be likeable and well characterised?
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that 3.Pathfinder completely breaks any sense of illusion that there is equivalence between two classes of the same level.
In short, the system makes magicians unlikable because they invalidate most other roles.
1. Be friendly.
2. You're here to help.
3. Battlefield control spells.
4. "I picked this spell to compliment our group fighting style."
5. Construct logical argument to assist Fighter in debate, privately confide you did not agree with his thesis later.
6. Rehome them sensibly at level 8 when they are no longer necessary.
>>43705633
Merlin, Gandalf, Abe-no-Seimei, Elija the Prophet, Conan' Chronicler, Minwu from FFII, etc
You are someone who not only seeks knowledge, but uses it to help and aid your allies. You are helpful, insightful, and supportive.
>>43705633
You can play your character however you want. That's the point.
>>43705633
Literally the last wizard I played was a kid who was a prodigy and became a "little brother" to the group of far more experienced adventurers.
It helps to play support and NOT read a guide about how to min-max the wizard to nuke cities or summon demon armies. I know it kinda hurts a bit to purposely hold back, but it comes naturally once you start to enjoy the roleplaying instead of the rollplaying. Just because something is on the list doesn't mean you HAVE to take it.
>>43705781
I'm fully aware of this, it's just I never really seen a likeable spellcaster in action.
They don't have much in the way of buffs, they're generally pretty isolated from the party and they're really different to everyone else.
And every spellcaster I've seen has been the straight-laced, serious Knowledge for Knowledge's sake or a Lolrandumb sorcerer.
>>43705853
>They don't have much in the way of buffs
wat... literally WAT?
What system are you playing exactly? Even 3.5/Pathfinder isn't THAT bad.
>>43705682
Let me rephrase that, buffing spells are generally handled better by a cleric, which the group has.
It's a relative scarcity of buffing.
>>43705853
Can you seriously not imagine how to play a companionable wizard not conforming to those archetypes?
Be somebody who learned magic to help people, be a dickass mage's runaway apprentice, be Telemain the thaumaturgical code-monkey, be anybody else.
Just think about what would make casters unlikeable and don't do that.
Make a wizard who only focuses on one or two things instead of everything.
Wizards who specialize in everything are what pisses off other players.
A wizard who specializes in illusion and uses it to create distractions in battle, disguise the party during infiltration missions, and maybe took a bit of Enchanting on the side for a jedi mind-trick or two... they're pretty fucking cool even if they can't nuke an army or pump out healing like a non-American healthcare system.
>>43705633
Get Item Creation feats.
Build them cool magic shit.
New players love cheap magic gear.
>>43706272
That's the way I played my last wizard. I actually looked like a common blacksmith dwarf, even had an enchanted apron, and adventured for exotic materials. Good times.
>>43705633
Just play the bumbling old Merlin type who gives out good advice and uses magic to help where he can, despite being a senile old coot.
Try not to optimise, and give them chances to solve shit for themselves unless they REALLY need you. do this through buffoonery or old man shenanigans until you have a "moment of clarity" when shit goes down.
Everyone loves senile wizards with hearts of gold and an open mind.
>>43705980
>or pump out healing like a non-American healthcare system.
Wait until they're dead and then try to revive them?
>>43705682
In a setting I've been working on, I just removed all full casters. Even martials compare pretty well to 1/2 and 3/4 casters, and those get more interesting abilities anyway. I've only gotten to run like that once or twice, but it does an amazing job of keeping magic in the game while allowing martials to remain relevant.
>>43708791
>nerfing the strong instead of buffing the weak
Why are you even playing PF? There is a lot of good and balanced systems that allow martials to compete with casters.
>>43705932
The best buffer in the game is a wizard, specifically a transmutation wizard.
You could also do battlefield control, or non save-or-die based debuffing (as save-or-die is fragile anyway) as a witch.
Also everyone loves a crafter.
>playing level 5 Arcane Builder wizard
>two age categories
>25 point buy
>Human
>level 5
>Str: 5
>Dex: 10
>Con: 12
>Int: 22
>Wis: 14
>Cha: 10
>Level 1 Feat
Arcane Builder (Wondrous items)
>Wizard Bonus
Scribe Scroll
>Human Bonus
Racial Heritage (Dwarf)
>Level 3 Feat
Brew Potion
>Level 3 Bonus
Craft Wondrous
>Level 5 Feat
Craft Magic Arms & Armor
>Level 5 Wizard Bonus
Craft Wand
So at level 5 I can craft most of the major magic item types, and am taking the dwarven favored class bonus. I also have arcane builder for wondrous items to get a little extra out of them (making crafting of the road viable). In addition i have a valet familiar.
So you only get 2 hours of work done in a four hour work day for this, BUT, I can push that pretty hard:
(((((1000(base)+1000(dwarven favored class))*2(rushing))*3(valet familiar & hireling with cooperative))*1.25(wondrous item arcane builder))*.25(crafting while adventuring)) = 3750gp worth of wondrous items made a day while adventuring, more if I get a ring of sustenance and craft through the night.
Besides this I specialize in transmutation as a pure buffer.
>>43710514
So, is this an annoying wizard?Also, thought I was posting in /pfg/, feel free to ignore it
>>43705633
Sure, Neville was super Bro-tier
>>43710279
Because it's the system the most people are familiar with, it's got a ton of material which makes for a lot of options for players and GM's alike, and it's crunchy enough to satisfy several of my fellow players who prefer a crunchy system, but it's not so complex as to make it a chore to play.
And beyond that, the setting I've been making was already going to be one without god-like mages reshaping the world at the snap of a finger at high levels. It just turns out that taking away the super-casters also happened to almost entirely solve the caster/martial divide.
