So the jist of it is I DMd myself into a corner and I need a BBEG who's absurdly bureaucratic. Any idea what a bad guy can do with basically unending documents about the most trivial shit that happens in his kingdom?
Bonus points for a religious spin, two of the pcs have vendettas against gods.
>>43591645
>Any idea what a bad guy can do with basically unending documents about the most trivial shit that happens in his kingdom?
Anything ranging from hunting down rebels with terrifying efficiency to micro-taxing his people to madness to just trolling them.
If there's one thing players hate, it's paperwork. When my Black Crusade players had to operate undercover on a hive world, I sent them into an Administratum complex to get a pet license.
They came out of it three weeks later.
When they were done being undercover, they dropped a starship on the Admin complex.
>>43591828
Welp DM'd myself into a corner as far as the hunting rebels thing goes, several very large provinces had already successfully split off before the players got there (the quest was supposed to be to help the bureaucracy reclaim these lands.) And the micro-taxing just doesn't have enough kick to make my players do something. I kind of like the "just trolling them" thing, a bard politician rises to the top of the bureaucracy and decides to dig through records and create small amounts of annoying chaos for Olidammara.
>If there's one thing players hate, it's paperwork
Too true. I had one group's first encounter with paperwork be at a keep in the middle of a barbaric forest. The head guard asks them to fill out 5 measly forms each so that they may get paid/ sleep in the infirmary and the players almost immediately start plotting to burn down walls and kill every guard there.
>>43591645
He invents data-mining and uses it to advance his faith. He predicts whose belief is faltering, which infidels are likely to be converted, and gets them interventions that are disturbingly well-tailored to intimate details of their lives.
>>43591645
Anything the players do, he can make a crime of it and artificially inflate it to the point of making the players exceptionally appealing bounty targets.
>>43592188
>>43592207
Oooh, both very strong suggestions. I think I'll go with the first and when the players reject the religion I'll do the second.
>>43592207
>BG: you are in violation of loitering
>PC: What do you mea-
>BG: Resisting arrest I see. *Pulls out sword*
>PCs: *Tries to defend themselves*
>BG: Assaultinrg an officer as well, you're going to jail!
Something like this?
>>43592356
OP here, I'll do something like...
>BG: You are in violation of loitering, do you have a permit for that?
>PC: No we dont' have a permit.
>BG: No permit?! I hope you have a permit for not having a permit! You'll have to come with me *pulls out sword*
>PC: *gets ready to defend themself*
>BG: Don't do anything you might regret, son. The paperwork you'll have to fill out for assaulting an officer is astronomical.
>>43591645
Why not just have him be a powerful rogue modron disguised as a human? Or some sort of clockwork cyborg that worships Primus?
>>43592356
Also, a suspicious number of police-related deaths are found with daggers, hand crossbows, and/or black onyx rocks planted as evidence.
read and watch the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy
>>43592930
What the hell is that thing?
>>43591645
Look at the Qin dynasty, or most of ancient Chinese history really. If it's a modern setting you want Chicoms. Either way bureaucracy can be terrifying on the scale of megadeaths.
Personally I would suggest that rather than an individual, the BBEG should be the bureaucracy itself. Think Wolfram and Hart from Angel: it doesn't matter how many "bosses" you kill, someone else will just get promoted into the position and the incentive strucutre means he will behave in exactly the same way. Gives the enemy a kind of impersonal immortality and menace.
>>43592944
its a Vogon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNsu4PHD2B8
>>43593047
>Presidential kidnapping release form
Kek
>>43591645
The players need to meet with some person who is involved in this bureaucracy. They go to the regional governmental headquarters. It is a truly monumental building, a massive stone rectangle stretching up into heaven and away into the horizon. Security is posted.
They are brought inside and asked to surrender their weapons for their meeting. They probably conceal some, just let them get away with it. The security checkpoint has guards and an iron portcullis, they are let through with no fuss and two guards escort them down to the guy they have to see.
It is a really fucking long and confusing walk through all kinds of winding twisting corridors, past porticullis checkpoints of all kinds, up stairs, down the hall, down a flight of stairs, etc, etc. Instead of telling them vaguely how many twists and turns they make, rattle it all off rapid fire like you're reading off the fine print at the end of a shitty 90's infomerical.
They finally get to the dude. They talk to him, he tells them about whatever job or information they want. It's cool. He has to go to another meeting somewhere else in the building now, but asks that they head just down the hall, grab Form 394, fill it out, slide it under his door since he'll be gone. He takes off and leaves them alone.
Whether they actually fill out the form is immaterial. Eventually, they'll try to wander out and encounter some sort of security or other wandering bureaucrats and be unable to prove that they have permission to be in this area. They'll get hustled into a different area and told to go get issued visitor passes from some office, or fill out some kind of security statement, or whatever. They get there, they get shuffled on some other wild goose chase.
Just keep doing this. Make it go on forever. If they get violent, detain them but keep them trapped in the neverending bureaucratic loop. The BBEG was never a single person. The BBEG was the amalgamated souls of a million lifeless drones.
>>43593223
hahahaha. I fucking love it. This will be their final dungeon.
>>43592930
Basically what I had in mind when I designed the kingdom but it's a secluded island cluster in a fantasy setting so they can't be the unstoppable force the Vogons were.
All great suggestions. I think I'll make the religious organization at the core of the bureaucracy the BBEG, probably make it a cult that worships a god of order of something.
>>43593811
>>43593223
In other words, the scene from Les 12 Travaux D'Asterix where D'Asterix and Obelix go mad in the house of bureaucrats. Best scene anywhere capturing the stupidity and frustration of government.
Op really needs to watch it. Le maison des fous (house of crazies) I believe it's called.
>>43594287
https://youtu.be/JtEkUmYecnk
>>43594287
>>43594325
Awesome, that'll help when I get to design my dungeon later on. Thanks a bunch.
>>43591828
>they dropped a starship on the Admin complex.
Doing the dark gods' work, they are
>>43591645
How does magic work in your setting?
If it's open, maybe make everything in the bureaucracy work the way it does by magic. Instead of getting a slip of paper with a number on it, a number appears over their head and they have to wait till it counts down to zero before getting called.
Those annoying belt stands they interlock on poles to make zig zag waiting lines are charged so you can't cut through them. Try to jump over or crawl under, you just hit a barrier.
Certain doors require special access from a guard who has a key. The key however only works when tied to the guard in question, otherwise the key won't fit.
Stuff that just grates on your nerves but you can't do anything about.
>>43594878
I bet the ][ has done that out of sheer frustration more than a few times.
They were Heretics, I swear.
>>43591645
http://wiki.eanswers.com/en/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)?ext=t&cid=5083
>>43591645
In my campaing the Dwarves work that way, theu have Cleric/Lawyers and follow the word of the law. (The decrees of the first mountain king)
The law is basically this, in the time of the king one Dwarf stole 3 gold coins, and his penance was one month of forced work.
Another time, a dwarf stole 7 gold coins, and his penance was three months of forced work.
Then, if a Dwarf steals 5 coins, they put the two most similar casses togehter and make a stence, that goes in the book of law.
Of course, then you have sentimental value, material value, etc.
Fantasy? Use an actual medieval inquisitor. Historically, they were the first serious record keepers in the feudal ages so they could pin criminals down when they lied. They were considered highly bureaucratic at the time and were more terrifying because no one else had the archives and knowledge that the inquisition did (and by extension, the Church), and they would frequently use God to force what they wanted. They were nowhere near as bloody as often depicted because of bureaucracy, but your BBEG could be a bureaucratic, spin-doctoring, medieval inquisitor who uses the system to force whatever he wants. Lawful Evil - as you clearly desire. https://en wikipedia org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition - note that they have a well-documented persecution procedure and not a single person was killed.
Not to be confused with later witch hunters or the Spanish Inquisition, which are both known to be more prone to bloodthirstiness and not as attentive to archiving.
Literally the Azorius Senate during Dissension.
>>43591645
>BBEG
>beurocrat
>religious spin
>basically unending documents about trivial shit
CELESTIAL BEUROCRAT
COME ON FUCKER YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO
I MEAN HE HAS A WRITTEN DOWN LIST OF EVERY TIME YOU'VE DONE ANYTHING.
![Poaro.full.1575215[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dPaPO9U.jpg "Poaro.full.1575215[1].jpg")
>>43591645
ABSURDLY bureaucratic?
>BBEGs lair
>No monsters, no obstacles, just a secretary sitting behind her desk and a sealed door
>"License and registration?"
>They don't have any
>"You're new to this, aren't you? Pick up the required forms on the other side of the continent"
>They later return with their forms in duplo
>"Your adventurer's permit will be sent to your home adress between 3 and 5 workdays. Make sure you're home, otherwise you'll have to wait another week."
>She offhandedly comments that the party leader is kind of cute
>A week later they return with their permits
>"You can't fight the boss just yet, you're too inexperienced."
>She hands the party a map
>"There's a dragon in the Misty Peaks, slay it and I'll have it checked off on your files. Don't worry about the dragon, we have a cleric for that."
>She warns the party leader to be careful
>Repeat the above numerous times until they've levelgrinded enough
>Make the secretary progressively more flirtatious with the party leader
>They finally return after having reached the required level
>"So you're going to fight the big man himself, huh? Alright, I'll need you to fill in these forms in triplex, making us no longer responsible for any injuries, trauma or death you may suffer."
>As she hands the party leader his pen, her fingers deliberately brush against his
>"You came far, didn't you? Alright, I'll be your last test."
>"But wouldn't you rather settle down? Have a family, forget about this whole "saving the world" thing? Don't worry about not having any other talents, I can provide for both of us."
>The party defeats the secretaryor doesn't
>She pulls the key that unseals the BBEGs door out of her chest pocket
>"You're ready. Don't worry about me, we have a cleric for this."
>"Want to have lunch after this is done?"
>BBEG fight initiates.
>>43603163
I'm stealing this. I don't know what for yet, but I am stealing this.
Anyone have the screencap of that one RPG villain that was just a facilitator? Like, he caused every misfortune in the whole world just because he was a bored dick?
>>43603163
Please don't tell me I got a flirting bureaucrat kink now.
>>43603761
Just sign a few forms and you can engage in pre-maritalbut then you need to write five letters in apology to the company for doing it on her company's time and CC it to three levels of management
>>43591645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZshIb5IJQU
"Somewhere in the 20th Century..."
Another point; ripped shamelessly from "Flow My Tears The Policeman Said". If they ever demand to know why they're being treated like this (assuming they haven't gone full murderhobo) a very tired looking man just answers "You were noticed. That's the only crime, really. Being unusual enough for the system to notice you." Once you're noticed you're going to be spied on constantly, and have an army of bureaucrats who's job is to find threats looking at you. And then, well: "Give me six lines from the hand of the most honest man and I will find something in them to hang him".
If you want something theological, have it all be set up by a god of order. The Bureaucracy is designed so that anything normal is relatively easy. It can handle normal births, normal crimes, normal lives, normal deaths. It's designed to encyst the unusual in paperwork until it's safely neutralized, either because it's worn smooth by the grinding, or because it's physically destroyed by the agents of the system.
Back to Brazil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_00bbE9oxQ
>>43603761
Waaaaaaay ahead of you.
>>43603761
Can you even imagine the sex?
>Both of you sign permission slips in threefold and send them to your respective lawyers
>Initiate teasing and foreplay until both lawyers have sent a confirmation
>Slowly undress her as per chapter 15 paragraph 7 of the Flirtation & Intimacy Guidebook
>Gently bend her over your knee as per Chapter 17 paragraph 1 of the Flirtation & Intimacy Guidebook second edition
>Gently yet firmly apply a ruler of no more than 40cm and a total weight of no more than 3kg to her buttocks
>"Yes! Yes! I'm a naughty, naughty secretary!"
>"Tell me how much I messed up the yearly reports! Tell me that I'll have to work unpaid overtime! Oh God, you know how much I love not being paid for my work!"
>>43605108
>>43603163
noooooooooooo
>>43603163
>about twenty minutes later
>the handsome oaken door labeled "CEO" opens, revealing the back, blackened with soot
>the party leader staggers through the door, his charred armor and filthy sword dripping blood. He's followed by the wizard, the rogue, and the cleric.
>the secretary taps a sheaf of papers on the desk and stands up, watching him. She checks her watch.
>"Wow, 21:46? That's pretty impressive. Might even be a new record." She smiles confidently at the tall, dirty fighter as the party cleric ties a bandage around his ankle. The cleric stares warily at the papers in the secretary's hands.
>The fighter doesn't respond, only pants in exhaustion as he stares at his feet
>Pretending she didn't see the cleric staring, she offers her papers to the party leader. "I have one last thing for you. A simple deliv --"
>"No," hisses the rogue, from the back. "We've done enough. Isn't there some kind of reward now?"
>She rolls her eyes and "tsk"s. "It'll only take a couple of seconds. Can you go back there and put these papers in the Boss's inbox?" She hands them over, and the fighter grasps them in his gauntleted hand without looking up.
>The wizard leans over his shoulder, reading the top of the page aloud. "Vacation form, 16-A? What's this?"
>The secretary leans down behind her desk and retrieves a purse the size of a large dog, slinging it onto her shoulder effortlessly. "Just going to take some time off. I've got some sick days saved up... and I've been thinking about seeking alternative employment options."
>The fighter looks up at her, just in time to catch her wink at him. He looks down again quickly. The wizard whistles under his breath.
>"Well? Mind if I employ you guys to escort me somewhere?"
>"Not at all," whispers the fighter. His voice is rough and scratchy. "Where to?"
>She slips out from behind the desk and hooks her arm neatly in his, leaning her head on his pauldron. "Well, I know a good place for coffee that's close..."
>>43602901
>CELESTIAL BEUROCRAT
Christianity already parts of this. All of human history is essentially prep for god doing an evaluation (i.e. judgement day) of humanity's culture fit.
Also the popular depiction of heaven involves a dude hanging out at the gates with a book, who looks people up to determine if they meet the qualifications for entry.
>>43591645
OP a real life BBEG who got his power through being bureaucratic was Stalin!
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FsSoASn.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>43608257
>Stalin!
Why did you have to add the exclamation mark? Now I'm reading it in his voice!
>>43591645
"Here is what to do if you want to get a lift from a Vogon: forget it. They are one of the most unpleasant races in the Galaxy. Not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous. They wouldn't even lift a finger to save their own grandmothers from the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal without orders - signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. The best way to get a drink out of a Vogon is to stick your finger down his throat, and the best way to irritate him is to feed his grandmother to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. On no account should you allow a Vogon to read poetry at you."
>>43605108
>3kg ruler
Holy shit.
>>43608901
she has been VERY bad
>>43605108
I'm into it now. My body is readyto fill out paperwork all day goddamn.
Implying that isn't what I do in my office drone job anyway.
>>43605108
This is how some people want sex to work at my college.
I wish I was fucking joking.
>>43603694
somewhre just not sure what its saved under
>>43609460
You mean the employees?
>>43609591
seems like this is the perfect time to find and post it
>>43603694
Oh, the one that had everything into running away, and the party just got so into stopping him that the Paladin was willing to fall, the Warlock ready to repent, and bard willing to swear off women just to beat him? And eventually they get him and get a high level demon to trap him in the hells for all eternity and then totally erased his legacy from existence?
>>43609611
Nah, I mean the dumbfuck students who think that drunk sex is automatically rape (and under the rules of the college, it actually is)
I don't want to start a huge political shitfest, but that's just the way it is on many American campuses. The students are dumb enough to believe what Tumblr tells them, and the administrators are all scared of being crucified on TV the next time there's an assault on campus, so any time sex and college rules intersect there's a complete lack of common sense.
For example, my college states that a person cannot "give or receive consent" if they have had even a single drop of alcohol within a certain period, I think it might be 8 hours or something. No matter how you read those rules, it means that on any given day, two people on campus are raping one another simultaneously. A strict reading would indicate that mutual rape occurs every time one party in a sexual act is inebriated (if I pick up a blackout drunk girl while I'm cold sober, I raped her because she couldn't give consent, but she raped me because she couldn't "receive" consent. Not that consent has to be "received," or that "receiving" consent is even a thing, but whatever)
>>43609611
I think he's talking about the recent "Yes means Yes" legislation in the state of California, USA. From what I gather it means that the participants in sex (read: men) that are accused of rape need to demonstrate that they had the consent of the other party. Leading to its logical conclusion this means in a few years lawyers will make bank creating and overlooking sexual consent contracts, and finding ways to declare them invalid in the court of law if push comes to shove. A bit like pre-nups except you go to jail even if you pay.
>>43610056
Dave Chapelle was right....
>>43610092
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4568PIRnk
>>43609711
>>43610045
>No matter how you read those rules, it means that on any given day, two people on campus are raping one another simultaneously.
I'm Europoor and this is happening in our country too. Except it's by the end of elementary / beginning of highschool (14-16 years of age). When both parties consent but neither legally can.
>>43610056
Eh, just go do it to nearest country with less crazy laws. Your petrol costs close to nothing and everyone has car anyway, might as well use it.
>>43610092
>>43610137
Don't you just love it when what was considered ridiculous decades ago actually becomes reality?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=061_1331927780
>>43603694
Yes, we call him the true fae, his other titles includes the arcadian gentry, and a tremendous doodoohead
>>43610056
I'm not in cali, it's not restricted to the west coast. The reason people know about that is because it was mandated by the state for all public unis. I don't know what the rules are regarding burden of proof over here on the east coast (I live and go to school in VA), but there's a disturbing trend in the college disciplinary system toward shifting the burden toward the accused.
I actually talked about this with an acquaintance who's a fairly active member of student government and all that jazz. She took the position that we need to take a more active role regarding sexual assault and rape on campus, which I agree with. The problem I raised is that we have a state institution (go to a public school) overseeing proceedings regarding potentially criminal acts and issuing punishments because of those criminal acts, yet we are pretending that this isn't a legal matter and ignoring all rules regarding such proceedings.
>>43610448
>She
But of course, why would it ever be a man? I wonder if she even cares that the CDC doesn't even consider forcing a man to penetrate and/or envelloping to be rape, and if it was rape statistics for men would match those of women (1:21 and 1:20 respectively).
What we're seeing in America, and what is slowly happening over here in Europe, is simply what happens when you put women in charge of shit. Women hate men, plain and simple.
>>43610684
Alright man, so this guy right here >>43610448
this is a reasonable complaint regarding the idea that our justice system should always be based around the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty by evidence in a court of law. The current difficulties are with society trying to come to grips with trying to address a heinous act and mitigating it's prevalence in a admittedly clumsy manner but we're working on it.
Meanwhile you're being a shithead and making an entire population of the human race into an easily target-able boogeyman for your insecurities.
>>43610684
I know this is b8, but whatever.
It seems to be just a massive groupthink, combined with people not realizing what they're really doing. Folks see an issue and they come up with something they think might help solve the issue, then they put it into action without considering potential adverse consequences of this "solution." The girl I was talking about this with was also in our D&D group for a while, and the same thing happened in-game.
The most egregious example was when we were in a temple with bizarre mind-affecting magic. Periodically everyone would have to make a will save. If they failed, they would go crazy and attack the party. At one point her ranger character was the only one to fail the will save, so she drew and aimed at the party cleric (who was at about 2 hp at this point). My character, a fuckhueg barbarian, sees that shit is about to go down and decides to defuse the situation by applying a psychotherapy technique known as "battleaxe to back of head." I get a crit and knock her solidly into negative hp, but not killing her permanently. When the cleric revives her the mind-affecting magic has worn off. Her first decision is to shoot me in the chest, even thought the DM has told her repeatedly that she is not only sane but remembers nothing of the events that occurred when she was crazy.
She knocks me out and I fall on her. The rogue in the party assumes that she is still crazy and is probably going to knife me when it's her turn again, and one badly-rolled coup de grace later she's unconscious again. She then nearly dies because the cleric is busy saving me, and once I'm up I'm unwilling to help her out. Only survives because the party paladin gets an incredibly lucky roll.
All she had to do was not shoot me when she had a choice and life would have been a lot easier for everybody involved.
>>43611149
Only you can delete your posts Anon
>>43609837
yeah that one
>>43611461
never heard of it
OP here, didn't expect my thread to last but goddamn yall are good. Had a session last night where I tried one more time to bring them on the side of the bureaucracy.
>Give us a boat
>I'll give you a boat!
>Give us money
>I'll give you money!
>Give us everything we could possibly desire
>Anything!
>I don't want to fill out forms you son of a bitch
They're ignoring every quest I've dangled in front of them and they're going to go straight for destroying the bureaucracy, the strongest power in the region by far.
![Anime-Girls-Wallpaper[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/t4QVk0E.jpg "Anime-Girls-Wallpaper[1].jpg")
>>43612203
>they're going to go straight for destroying the bureaucracy, the strongest power in the region by far
"It seems you're trying to overthrow our great and benevolent bureaucracy. Have you considered registering your group as an official terrorist organization? Do it within two weeks and you'll get our special "Enemy of the State" gift pack including but not limited to an eyepatch, a bicorne hat and a striped flag with your three colors of preference! No need to thank me, the bureaucracy only has your best interests in mind!"
>>43612389
Fucking do it, OP.
>>43610872
This is what people mean when they talk about this /pol/ shut being bad for the board - what the fuck did it have to do with the topic? With anything? It's just shitposting, pure and simple.
>>43612203
Are you actually making them fill out paperwork, or are they just enraged by the very idea of it? Either way, next session print out a bunch of forms they need to really fill out to get anything done.
his lair
make sure to staff it with bureaucratic beholders
Describe the bureaucrat as a pale, cubicle-dwelling type guy. Looks like he's never seen the sunlight, probably lives at his desk, etc.
Later on you find out he's actually a lich. Became undead so he didn't have to sleep and could perform his job more efficiently, and things went downhill from there.
>>43612996
>Describe the bureaucrat as a pale, cubicle-dwelling type guy. Looks like he's never seen the sunlight, probably lives at his desk, etc.
The sign on his office reads "Director of Once-Human Resources"
>>43613468
stealing this, BBEG in next campaign is going to be a HR lich
>>43594878
>dropping a ship on the Admin
>not the Emperor's work
>>43610167
Ohhh, that's nasty. My players would quit if I tried that sort of shit.
>>43612389
highest kek
>>43612399
of course
>>43612497
No they just detest the idea but I think I'll make out a form for the destruction of the bureaucracy to come at the end of the dungeon.
>>43612996
Might use this, two of the players are trying to achieve lichdom.
>>43616642
If you have the lich bureaucrat, ake sure you have some kind of anti-magic shit going on so nobody casts detect undead or evil or any of that
