>You are a planeswalker.
>In the vast Multiverse, only you and some other chucklefucks know of the countless worlds beyond your own.
Welcome to the Magic: the Gathering Flavor General thread!
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>Savor the Flavor/Taste the Magic archive
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>Current Status of Planeswalkers:
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2015: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/checking-planeswalkers-2015-2015-08-19
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Reminder: Keep bait, shitposting, and arguments to a minimum--try to focus on lore discussion. No snowflakes in the Wednesday thread. Ignore chandere posts.
We have an IRC for more conversational discussions and no small amount of fucking about: #mtgwaifulore on irc.rizon.net
Starter topic: This week's Uncharted Realms is "Family Values," by Alison Luhrs.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/family-values-2015-11-11
Teysa's age has been confirmed at 112, and her plot to overthrow the Obzedatfailed. How do you feel about these facts?
>>43589714
I liked the UR today
Teysa clearly wants to make like Esper with Jace.
Holy shit Ravnicanon you're still around.
On topic: Oh well. I think Teysa could've done great things, but the current Obzedat is just fine. I love Orzhova regardless.
I want to see her go all Ghost busters on their asses. I want to see her turn them into worthless shadows.
>>43590181
Maybe in RtRtR. Until then, she's likely going to be under house arrest, disciplined or ghostified.
Liked the story but it's a missed opportunity to learn more about modern Kamigawa.
We could have started this whole plot with the third visit to Ravnica.
>Teysa's current age confirmed
Is her age ever given in Guildpact or Dissension? This could give us a maximum amount of time that's passed since the Mending.
Since she's almost certainly at least 20 in Guildpact, we can already assume that the Mending was less than a hundred years ago, but it'd be nice to be a bit more specific.
>>43590030
Yeah, Rav still hangs out in the IRC and starts every Wednesday thread. He just posts on anon now because Tarkir made him a bitter old man and he doesn't want to namefag if he isn't being helpful.
>>43590199
I hope her buddy is alright
>>43590228
What happened in Tarkir? I stopped hanging out in the IRC just before then.
>>43590270
Dragons of Tarkir happened.
>>43590287
...ok
>>43590297
It ruined for many people what was shaping up as a great block. Dragons that were thought to be super popular were done poorly. On top of the entire ruining of a world that so cool Lore wise.
>>43590333
Yeah I understand that. It was the weakest of the block, and I remember a lot of people being upset. I just wasn't sure if anything in particular was notably terrible.
Look on the bright side! Maybe SoI won't be terrible! Emrakul 2.0 might be neat!
>>43590352
In the Zendikar block, the Eldrazi came and ruined Zendikar but the natives are still there to fight back, with a glimpse of hope.
In the SoM block, the Phyrexians came and ruined Mirrodin but the natives are still there to fight back, with a glimpse of hope.
In the latest set of the Tarkir block, there's no 'but.' The dragons came and ruined Tarkir by having always ruled Tarkir since they defeated the Khans. The original cultures before the timeline was rewritten are long dead. They're not just defeated, they're not just extinct, they never were and they've been completely wiped out and twisting into something else. Something that we loved and enjoyed was effectively deleted in a way that ensures that it can never come back, not in the way that it once was.
>>43590270
>>43590352
Basically, >>43590333 has it. Dragons of Tarkir killed my enthusiasm as a massive letdown. After talking about how Khans of Tarkir showed us a world that was fundamentally missing something, they took away the heart and soul of the clans in Dragons of Tarkir.
And, you know, that could have been done well. They had hinted that it might happen, and that Sarkhan would look at it and have an "oh shit" moment. But that failed to materialize. They screwed the world and then tried to play it like everything was better now. After giving Sarkhan a huge, character-defining moment about realizing that one doesn't need to be led by dragons, and that looking for dragons around him was preventing him from seeing the dragon within...he nearly pissed himself in joy when he came to the new present and saw dragons around him, leading the clans.
This was after they spent two thirds of the block hyping up the clan identities. Which they executed very well! The clans were a very good expression of the wedge identities, and the flavor just fit so well. There were so many possible directions that they could have gone with an alternate present, but they decided to flat-out cut a huge portion of each clan identity without giving them anything new to replace it. They didn't reinterpret the color identities, they axed them.
It was also the third time I'd been hugely let down by a purported dragon theme. Scourge, Jund, and now Tarkir. I'm a huge fan of dragons, but the set just failed to deliver on that front. The megamorph dragon cycle is just...dull. The fact that most of the dragons you saw in the dragon set were more or less French vanilla was not exciting.
Morph is actually a good metaphor for the block as a whole: they showed us something cool, then showed us a more primordial version of it, all while continually promising us a cool alternative spin on it in the third set...and then the third set failed to deliver on anything except for bigger creatures.
Teysa did nothing wrong, remove Obzedat.
>>43589714
So is nobody in the Boris Legion going to notice Tajic was missing? Are the Obdezat going to just keep him in the due geon forever?
>>43590352
>Maybe SoI won't be terrible!
Oh, right, that's the other reason he's been bitter. They followed DTK with a return to his second least favorite plane, and they just announced that the next block is a return to his LEAST favorite plane.
Kind of hard to remain enthusiastic when your new favorite world gets nuked and then you have to sit through two blocks you hate.
>>43590622
I doubt this is the end of Teysa's scheming. If anything, it's more motivation.
Wait for Ravinca III: Son of the Quickening, we'll see more of her.
>>43590649
All this could have been avoided if they has just brought a camera to take a picture of the book.
>>43589714
It was going really well until it failed horribly. I like Tajic and Teysa as finally being a magic couple where both weren't entirely stupid and incompetent.
>>43590649
>Wait for three to five years for the follow-up to a short story
Jesus, is this really considered acceptable storytelling?
>>43590672
Cameras, if they do exist on Ravnica, are probably all owned by the Izzet
>>43589714
So first Ral, now Teysa. Who's gonna be asked to turn in their badge next?
>Teysa Karlov had spent another full day being yelled at by the dead.
I really liked that opening. I can relate
>>43590759
>Ral
>turn in his badge
What?
>>43590697
At least we'll get back there in half the time we would before the two block paradigm.
>>43590771
He got stripped of his head Researcher title if I recall.
>>43590731
Still, you think they could have rigged up something. Or just left and come back with more witnesses
>>43590791
Did he? I thought he's made it so it looked like the other person had messed up the data, not him?
I liked the story. It cemented my liking of Teysa even more, but now I'm stuck knowing how fucked she is and won't have any resolution for another 5-10 fucking years.
>>43590791
He was stripped of a title that he had only just received with the start of that project. For the span of RTR block, he was just Guildmage Zarek. After killing Melek and running the maze, he was made a Head Researcher for Project Lightning Bug, but then Niv decided that the project was demonstrably unreliable and killed it. This meant that Ral was no longer Head Researcher because the project was dead.
>>43590803
Should a just gone and told the Gruul clans there was a room the Orzhov had where the guildpact doesn't apply. They'd have a festival.
>>43590803
They thought they had made enough loopholes so that they were legally right. They had no reason to believe the word of the guildpact wouldn't work in the chamber.
>>43590803
Or just bought a camera. Reminder that most guilds do have a merchant part where the sell their goods amd services.
Izzet selling stuff like steamcore weirds to heat your stove without risking a house fire is perfectly normal on Ravnica.
>Pink and white polka-dot cake of a pregnant woman's breasts and stomach
Google, what are you doing?
>>43590859
>stuck knowing how fucked she is and won't have any resolution for another 5-10 fucking years.
>tfw Elspeth
>tfw Tarkir
It's becoming a trend, and I don't like it. They're trying to set up cliffhangers in their attempt to model comic book storytelling, but comic books don't come out at a rate of two per year. They come out closer to once a month, AND there are multiple different series printing at a time.
If they had one block every month, with several storylines being progressed every year, that would be one thing. But, as it is, trying to drum up tension for blocks that may not see the light of day for another decade is absolutely retarded and just leads to frustration.
>>43590932
Yeah. This cliffhangers really need to be mid-block while people still care about the results, not several years later where people might have forgotten
>>43590923
Hell, as it stands either of the could just go up to Jace and have him read their mind.
>>43590932
It's been a trend since they moved to online-only lore.
I'm still curious about the happenings in New Phyrexia, because Elesh seems to be winning and a major W antagonist is relevant to my interests, but who knows when we'll see them next.
>>43590932
>Someone voices this concern to Maro
>He thinks they're talking about the weekly Uncharted Realms
If anyone ever needed proof that the Jews aren't behind an international conspiracy, just look at Maro. The little kike couldn't find his ass with both hands, much less manipulate world governments.
>>43591248
Everyone should send him stuff explaining then.
Maybe then he'll get the point, once we give him detailed step-by-step ass-finding instructions
>>43590208
Kamigawa was pretty rad of a set, also Ninjitsue is fun to play with.Seeing how the plane had entered a state of peace between the living and the Kami, it would be safe to assume it's in a fairly neutral point in its timeline. It would most likely have some wars going on. Maybe some kind of cult/gang being ran by an Oni. We haven't seen UB demons in a while so I think it would be interesting.
I'm also curious to see what kind of cultural shifts happened seeing how the plot is literally White tries too hard to make thing perfect and Black smacks the back of Whites head before fixing everything.
I want to marry Jace!
>>43589714
Is there an equivalent Plane of the real world in MTG? Is that where all of us player Planeswalkers come from?
My waifu is in trouble. Goddamn cliffhanger.
>>43592661
And you won't find out for years to come.
>>43592161
nice of the ghosts to give you internet teysa
>>43593054
She wants his blue between her white and black.
>>43589714
You know who they should have asked to help? Emmara, she's a part of the the guild that's best at dealing with ghosts, also it would give the Selesnyans something to do for once that isn't brainwash the populace.
>>43589714
I really liked the UR. The chamber of the Obzedat is really interesting. A place where only the word of the Ghost Council is law. Makes me think that before the original Guildpact a really high-up member of the Azorius defected to the Orzhov, and later placed a massive law magic enchantment on the Council chamber/mausoleum.
So, Ravnica ghosts can't touch anything? If that's the case then the only real thing they can do is pester the living and command any thrulls they made before their deaths, plus anything in the mausoleum is subject to their word if the ghost is on the Council.
>>43594178
Really, she should have gotten as many people from other guilds as possible in on this. Did she not consider what would happen if they were caught?
>>43594434
A heist movie, but with a member from each guild? Count me the fuck in.
The only way to make it better is if Domri is the distraction
>>43594489
>"Now, we'll need a distraction, which is why I kidnapped this Gruul child beforehand."
I'd love to see the look on her face when they come back out and he's riding on a Behemoth from Naya.
>>43594489
>Golgari druid to act as a lookout and Bug the place beforehand.
>>43594578
>>43594514
>>43594489
>>43594434
Would you watch Teysa's Ten?
>>43594514
They've all been caught because the Obzedat, they're walking out with solid gold cuffs but Domri hasn't been caught because it's not easy reaching someone on top of a godsire especially since he started making more.
>>43594700
A Dimir agent could actually give them a good bit of plausible deniability. They need Teysa to open the vault, but with a mins mage their she can claim she was controlled.
>>43594649
No question
>>43594241
The Esper trifecta of guilds seems really nasty to have as a foe.
>>43594829
Esper in general gives you a Cyberpunk Dystopia
>>43590262
What's the story behind these two? I wanna learn about them.
>>43592314
Nope. Each player is in all likelihood represented by the plane that they came in on when they started the game or likely some unknown plane.
It's already been stated, Earth isn't part of the Multiverse.
>2016 - 2 months
>not hating Kor
Keksimus maximus.
>>43590697
Of course not, I'm fucking pissed that we won't hear about them for that long.
The worst part is that they're proud of this system of storytelling.
>>43595736
You know that posting that image makes people like Kor even more, right?
>>43595736
So there's a kor plane which was fucked up by Phyrexians, and a kor plane fucked up by Eldrazi, where's the kor plane fucked up by Bolas?
>>43595826
No, in fact, I was not aware people want the entire Multiverse destroyed.
>>43595879
Logic and sanity doesn't work with chandere. Ignoring her hairy fingers is the way to go.
>>43595906
Why are your fingers so hairy?
>>43595906
Innistrad is about to be fucked over, there is no Kor presence.
Phyrexia was completely fucked over, there was no Kor presence.
Tarkir was completely fucked over, there was no Kor presence.
Mirrodin was completely fucked over, there was no Kor presence.
Honestly, the presence of Sorin is a better indicator of if a plane is going to be completely fucked over than the presence of Kor.
You are just making people like Kor more, because you are a fuckwit.
>>43596193
But there are Kor on Mirrodin?
>>43596230
No there aren't. There are humans, leonin, and loxodon among the white races, but no kor.
>>43596285
Huh, looks like I was wrong.
>>43596346
It was probably the Auriok slipping you up.
The Mirran humans are weird like that.
>>43596428
Yeah, dudes are pale as hell.
>>43596193
Sorin wasn't on Phyrexia or Mirrodin, and was on Tarkir for about five minutes. Also the only reason Tarkir was fucked over was Sarkhan's lust for dragon cocks. As for Innistrad, he's currently dedicated to making sure it ISN'T fucked over.
>>43596520
Yes, but he was indeed on Tarkir, and will be on Innistrad, and was on Zendikar.
Compare that to just Zendikar and Dominaria, out of that list.
Three planes compared to two means that Sorin is more the cause of planar despair and destruction than the Kor are, by your own metrics.
>>43596580
He was specifically on those planes to make sure they weren't fucked over.
Also, Rath had kor, and it no longer exists.
>>43596520
Of course Sorin's not the CAUSE of the devastation: he's simply the herald. Causing the devastation would require Sorin to actually, you know, do something. He just pops into the story like a banshee, an ill omen that disappears moments later.
>>43596602
Rath exists as part of Dominaria, the Kor on Dominaria are literally the same as the ones on Rath due to the Overlay and Rath not being a separate plane happened in the same event that caused Dominaria to be 'destroyed by unspeakable horrors'
Try again.
>>43596602
And oh hey! The Kor of Rath (and Dominaria, and Zendikar!) were trying specifically to make sure those planes weren't getting fucked over, either!
Imagine that.
-NEWSFLASH-
People inexplicably are replying to a local attention whore and namefag, those same anons still don't filter said namefag, more news at eleven.
So who's the cast for Teysa's Ten?
Teysa
Tarjic
Emmara with Jarad's son Myc
Domri
A Dimir salesperson
Crixizix or that new gob female
Lavinia
Some camp gay Rakdos restaurant owner
Vorel or some other part Merfolk for Simic.
>>43598740
You forgot Jace ;^)
>>43598951He's busy lying in bed with Liliana.
>>43598951
Jace can't be one of the Ten, he's giving them the assignment in the first place.
>>43598951
>>43599239
If he's not giving them the job, the first words out of Jace's mouth are gonna be, "What? You can't steal from the Orzhov." From that moment on, anybody there won't be able to partake in the actual heist because of the Guildpact's law magic.
It's better for everyone if Jace isn't involved.
>>43598740
>Teysa enlists 8 other guild champions.
>Exava isn't invited because Rakdos nuttery.
>They make it to the sanctum, Ghost council is about to punish the fuck out of them.
>Suddenly Dimir starts laughing.
>"What's so funny?"
>"I'm wearing a mindwire."
>Suddenly, room starts igniting into flames
>Edges of the room and all the gaudy jewelry on the corpses start melting.
>"SO I HEAR THE GUILDPACT DOESN'T WORK IN THIS ROOM!"
>A week later, Teysa's first act as the new head of the Orzhov is to order the construction of new Orzhova, following the original's "unexpected detonation."
it says most of the orzhov matriarchs and patriarchs are deformed, some more pronounced than other, why is this?
>pic related
>>43600383
Junk food.
>>43600383
Inbreeding
>>43600383
Intimidation tactic, negative effects of an imperfect ghosting, they were that way when they were ghosted.
I could totally see the guy on the far left being this lich like thing for a while before coming a ghost.
>>43600383
It's usually explained as the side-effects of the magic/treatments to extend their lifespans and make them physically stronger in some cases.
For example, Teysa has a lame leg but the rest of her body is very strong. In addition she is 112 years old but only looks to be a young woman.
Grandpa Karlov seems to have had some kind of severe skin condition as well as weight problems. Teysa even comments in the UR that if he were still alive he would break a normal seat.
Of course their ghosts may simply depict the state of their bodies, so some of them are rotting. Their ghosts might also be a pseudo-parody of their former selves with exaggerated features (claws, fat, gaunt, etc.)
You guys ready for Ridiculously High Res Sorin in SOI?
>>43602698
I'm ready for a gay werewolf planeswalker if that's what you mean.
>>43602729
Considering that Jace is on the only piece of SOI art we've seen so far, you'll probably be looking at Jace, Liliana and Sorin for the first set's pws.
>>43594829
Not as bad as the jund group. That gives you two relentless attackers and a group that only gets stronger as more stuff dies
>>43602851
True, but my points go to the Mardu crew for making your life miserable.
>House/Business destroyed by Boros "investigations" because they almost had half of a warrant
>Take out a loan with Orzhov to try and put your life back together.
>Rakdos riot right after you spend the last of the loan.
>Now you're dead and the Orzhov own your soul for almost all eternity.
>And they're the ones that called the Boros in in the first place!
At least Jund just kills you.
Why aren't there any male angels?
Is WotC sexist?
>>43605359
There is one.
But it is the same logic why all their demons are male.
Both are mana constructs
>>43603331
>And they're the ones that called the Boros in in the first place!
Keikaku Dori.
I like how the Orzhov seem to be out U the Dimir and Niv.
>>43605418
I want a plane of sexy male angels and sexy female demons.
>>43602800
Liliana's more likely to be in the second set, rather than the first. They'll want to brand as many sets as possible with Origins walkers.
Like how Nissa wasn't in BFZ.
>>43605687
Well it's out there some where probably. There is also a plane where there is a 6th mana color called Purple probably tool.
>>43605687
It would be interesting. I mean they would appeal to some of their player base. And would be cool to see.
>>43590208
>Market research doomed any Return to Kamigawa block to "Ninjas and Samurai: The Block"
>losing all that dope-ass flavor in favor of fucking weeb pandering
Do you think we'll ever go back toMirrodinagain?
>>43606041
Do you mean pre-Phyrexia Mirrodin? Because I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to Mirrodin after Innistrad.
>>43598740
Next thread be Teysas Ten edition.
>>43605359
>>43605418
There's also Gabriel Angelfire
>>43606152
I did not know that one and I wish I had not seen its face. That one seems to be set before they put in place their ruling of constructs and that character is really out of place now.
>>43606290
>Rampage
wew lad
>>43606337
Yeah. As I said: out of place. Rampage is rather out there.
I want a plane where the populous is only mana manifestations as actual living people instead of the genric elves, goblins, humans, ect.
>White : Angles
>Blue : Illusions
>Black : Demons
>Red : Imps/Dragons
>Green: Beasts
All of em would get elementals as well.
>>43606373
Beasts are not mana constructs, Green's version is elementals even though all the colors get it from time to time.
Either that or like Dryads or something, I mean green is all about nature, and constructs are by definition not natural so it makes sense that green doesn't focus on it.
>>43606417
How I interpreter mana constructions is that they simply form when an excuses of mana is sitting about in one place. I think of it as a way for it to not go to waste. I'd consider it a natural phenomenon if it can happen on it's own and with all the colors.
>>43590692
Also I like the question it raises about the Ozbedath. Even if they are "outside of the law" what does that mean? Is the door outside ravnica, as if, is it a portal? Or are the obzedat not bound by the Guildpact?
>>43596638
>>43596665
Also Rath was an artificial colorless plane withouth a walker, whose sole purpose was to ram into Dominaria.
Yes, Old Phyrexia planned wars in quite a big fashion.
>>43606470
I really wan't a Legendary Ravnican Character that is Judge Dredd meets Dorfl.
>"Undead Or Alive You Are Coming With Me."
>>43605359
No male angels and no female demons, the only exceptions are a very old legend and a planeshifted angel (which was intentionally male)
>>43606488
That is too good to not happen. New Orzhov guild lead by waifu: immortal judges Dredd cooperating with the Boros
>>43606373
>Red: Imps
What
Also Illusions for blue would be awful since they die when anything happens to them. Why not Sphinxes, they're cool guys
>>43606585
What about djinn? Some of them are mana constructs right?
>>43606585
>>43606601
Colors can have multiple construct/races obviously. How about:
>Illusions weak amount of U, sphinxes WU, Dijins U and UB
>Dragons are R, imps are RB
>>43606623
That would work
>>43605941
I'd rather see freaky weirdass angels myself.
>>43606417
Mana constructs is simply a catch all term for things created solely through mana.
This includes angels, demons, nearly all elementals (Lorwyn Flamekin being the notable exception) and Tarkiran Dragons.
My friend said Jace is in Innistrad because Eldrazi. I thought he was going to be there for Liliana or Garruk...
>>43609321
We aren't actually sure with Tarkirian dragons, actually - after all, Flamekin are 'born' from a volcano.
I'd bug Doug, but Doug never fucking answers his Tumblr.
>>43609330
Jace needs to fuck off. I want a cephalid U planeswalker for a while.
>>43609330
Are they still there? I figured Lili would have fucked off already to prepare for the next demon.
>>43609330
A) The next block is called Shadows Over Innistrad, a clear reference to Lovecraft's work
B) The teaser trailer for SOI shows Avacyn's Collar (the symbol of her faith) being twisted and warped, which is the kind of thing that happens in Emrakul's presence - it is the Titan of Corruption.
C) Neither Lilliana nor Garruk actually...have any reason to BE on Innistrad, both having left long ago.
>>43609423
>B)
It could be Emrakul or Garruk's corruption, see DotP 2015 intro
>C)
Lili could be on Innistrad since she was part of the Origins 5 but didn't participate on BFZ nor OGW, also Garruk is hunting her so chances are they're on the same plane. Remember that the creative team now wants a steady cast for the storyline.
Jace could be there for those reason (Emrakul, Lili and/or Garruk).
So it's pretty much confirmed now that Orzhov is the strongest guild right?
They can outright say fuck the law and are fine with it.
If Merciless Eviction is a show for anything, they might be able to win a big fight.
>>43609835
But why in gods name would Lili go to Innistrad? She already killed her demon there. She gains nothing from that plane anymore.
>>43609366
>>43606623
Tarkiran Dragons are unique in that they spawn fully formed from mana storms created by Ugin, and grow bigger over time. As far as we know, most other dragons are natural creatures hatched from eggs/live born. You've all already heard my thoughts on egg laying sentients, so I won't go into it. All I've concluded is that the process of egg hatching is close enough to live birth that soul forming and thus spark formation occurs in both.
Imps (as well as Devils) are unknown if they're natural or not. I'd say they're subforms/subclasses of demons, and thus mana constructs as well.
>>43609835
Why would she be on Innistrad, though, instead of whatever plane the next of her remaining demons is on?
And Garruk's corruption is now containted, thanks to the hedron stuck in him. He may still want to go murdering people, but he's not blighting the land - and even when he WAS doing that, he wasn't making stone twist like it was putty.
>>43609853
In their little room, sure.
But the strongest guild is the one that has the most members as well as capturing the hearts and minds of the people- Golgari
>>43609875
So you're the weirdo who thinks souls have to do with The Trauma Of Birth, despite there being no evidence whatsoever of that, and creatures that aren't born having souls?One can have an artificial soul, it just makes one not a candidate for naturally having a spark
>>43609866
I'm just speculating, but given she's the black protagonist and she doesn't take part of the Justice Leage I doubt we would skip her during SOI. It's just a guess.
>>43609907
Oh yeah I bet the Golgari could deal with Azoruis law magic or the Orzhovs magic.
Mass exile is the Golgari's greatest weakness.
>>43609926
>The Black Protagonist
That's Sorin. Lili hasn't shown even half of the redeeming qualitys Sorin has shown.
>>43609875
Imps are confirmed to be natural on Ravnika, but that only means they can be. I take the stance on them that most are mana constructs but Ravnika is just special.
Either way I'd probably just have imps/devils there for the sake of having an interesting race to be the focal point of R.
>>43609917
On the subject of unnatural sparks, you'd think there would be a walker who essentially stole their spark from someone else by this point. Probably a demon or some beast that was worshiped and was given it as a sacrifice.
>>43609853
Nah. If a combat guild decided to kick their door down and go in dry, then the Orzhov would be biting the pillow.
They can only say fuck you to the law in that room. You can probably just demolish the room anyway.
Also, they would get their gay little ghostly asses fucked by Rakdos.
>>43610106
>Physical beings can't hurt ghosts
>The Ghosts can still hurt them
>A book could not be lifted by a boros powered man
>Just punch down the walls
Naw man, they would have that shit in the bag.
>>43609977
Ob Nixilis has been trying to steal sparks for centuries. Clearly artificial sparks can be formed with the right set of circumstances since he was able to recreate his own spark with the Hedron Network when the allies tried to recapture Ulamog.
Plus there's Karn being given a spark on two separate occasions.
>>43609875
>All I've concluded is that the process of egg hatching is close enough to live birth that soul forming and thus spark formation occurs in both
What does that even mean? The birth process has nothing to do with having a spark.
>>43609977
>I take the stance on them that most are mana constructs but Ravnika is just special.
On what basis? Do you have any evidence at all?
>>43610222
On the other hand, we haven't hit that part of the story yet - it may well be the case that Obby isn't creating anything so much as undoing whatever it was Nahiri did to bind it - hitting the Oblivion Ring holding his spark hostage with a Scour From Existence rather than making a new one outright.
>>43610174
>The Ghosts can still hurt them
I don't think they can interact with the physical world, hence the heavy usage of thrulls. Those thrulls would get wiped anyway. Also, enchantments are also incorporeal yet able to be destroyed/erased. There's probably a way of getting rid of them or at least protecting yourself from them if they themselves can hurt you.
>A book could not be lifted by a boros powered man
>Just punch down the walls
Surely the Boros (and Izzet) have their own version of a nuke for when they need some heavy firepower.
Rakdos could punch the walls down though. Whether you could get him to do it or not is a different matter.
>>43610222
Karn was given a real spark tho, not a man made one.
>>43610288
Iirc, Nahiri simply jammed a hedron shard into Ob's forehead. Due to the sealing nature of the hedrons it absorbed his spark as well as constantly draining him of his natural energy, causing him to weaken and his wings to atrophy.
Jace removed the shard from Ob's forehead in order to use on Garruk to try reversing the Chain Veil's curse. It only wound up halting the progress of the curse; no more mutation or corruption of the surroundings but he still loves killing other planeswalkers.
>>43610288
>Nahiri did to bind it
Nahiri didn't bind his spark, just bound him in general. He lost his spark before then.
What Nahiri did was physically bind him to the earth, which is why his first card can't fly.
>>43590262
He's a pretty big player in the Boros guild considering they chose him as their champion for the dragon's maze, so hopefully there's a gang of soldiers, minotaurs and angels coming to bust him out of orzhov jail
>>43610370
But if any guild wanted to make something indestructible it would be Orzhov.
Could even be magic that could rebuild it and the likes.
>>43594489
>Domri herding a stampede of cyclopes, centaurs and giant beasts through the Orzhov Basillica
Oh hell yes!
Is Urabrask dead?
>>43610544
He might just be hidden, we don't actually know what happened to him.
>>43610544
He was a loose canon who didn't play by the rules of the other praetors. I believe his current whereabouts are unknown.
>>43610469
The Temur Trio would be quite a handful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3qnIefWGLU
>>43609963
Sorin is WB, and we're aren't debating their qualities, Liliana is for a fact the face of black.
>>43609866
She kind of likes Innistrad, "The style suits her" or something like that. Maybe she's taking a personal day, or is about to get someone else to study curses.She heard of Tamiyo last time she was there. If Jace won't help her, maybe she can get this "Moon Sage" to study the Veil instead.
>>43609875
Jesus, let's just make this simple:
Naturally born means either biologically made: That's live birth, nonlive birth (Eggs), or something of that nature. Alternatively, at the very least what made you wasn't a one off thing.
Mana having a moment and shitting out a mindless rockslide elemental is not "natural" that's mana having a moment.
A volcano periodically spitting out living, thinking Flamekin? Enough for them to make a village of thinking Flamekin? Natural.
>>43609963
>Redeeming
Protagnist does not mean "Hero." It means "Person the main camera follows around."
>>43610914
Sorin has had much more to do with the world then Lili tho.
>>43610781
He's still a black walker. Many walkers can use other kinds of magic.
>>43611176
Put your trip back chandere. what part of "origin's five" and "steady cast for each color" you don't get?
>>43611202
They are the cast that will be the most relevant in the near future, that doesn't mean they are the end all be all protags.
Garruk is easily the green Protag, Elspeth or Ajani might have Giddion beat. Jace is blue sure but Sorin has them all beat when it comes to big movements in the multiverse.
And I don't use a trip, I just like Sorin and see what he's done as a much bigger deal then the absolute nothing Lili has accomplished.
>>43611202
It's either Chandere or that one anon who's obsessed with hating Liliana.
If it's the latter, while somewhat justified since she is a bitch, he's starting to get about as annoying as Golgari-fag was.
>>43611176
>Sorin has had much more to do with the world then Lili tho.
That has nothing to do with anything if Sorin isn't there and we're following Liliana's story.
>He's still a black walker.
Sorin is WB, just as Vraska is GB, that means that neither of them is MonoBlack. Liliana is.
>Many walkers can use other kinds of magic.
Literally nothing to do with anything.
>>43611262
>It's either Chandere or that one anon who's obsessed with hating Liliana.
Again not a trip, and nothing against Lili, Sorins just better tho.
>That has nothing to do with anything if Sorin isn't there and we're following Liliana's story.
We've been following Sorins story more and for longer. He was in original Zendikar, Innistrad, Tarkir and now he'll be back for this new Zendikar, then he'll be in new Innistrad.
I don't see how all that he's doing that has multi planar consequences is less relevant then Lili hunting down 4 demons.
>Sorin is WB, just as Vraska is GB, that means that neither of them is MonoBlack. Liliana is.
So you're saying planes walkers have 1 type of magic they can use otherwise they are impure or some shit?
If Jace uses his law magic at some point then the only blue walker is Tamio? Garruk isn't green?
>>43611261
Dennying it won't help, i invite you to visit maro's blog (or doug's) and ask him who's is currently the face for each color, when you have an answer come back and we'll discuss it like grown ups.
>>43610268
The first planeswalk has too much in common with the trauma of birth thematically and physically to not be related in concept.
>>43611261
>Garruk the green protag
>Has never been the main focuswalker of a block
>Is literally half black now and revels in it.
>We haven't seen him since M15
Sure, that's like saying that Ashiok is going to be the blue protagonist
You clearly have trouble understanding the word "protagonist."
It means "leading character," as in the one we follow. We've been following Nissa around quite a bit, that makes her a protagonist. We've been following Jace around, that makes him a protagonist. We've been following Gideon around, he's a protagonist. Elspeth was the focus walker of Theros, she was the protagonist of Theros block, but is currently not a protagonist, it was more her day in the spotlight after two blocks where she was just around. Ditto Sarkhan and Tarkir.
>>43611358
It has nothing to do with it, so stop trying to associate it.
>>43611339
>So you're saying planes walkers have 1 type of magic they can use otherwise they are impure or some shit?
Well Sorin's too white to be the face of black and too black to be the face of white.
>>43611345
I've seen Doug fuck up his own story enough times to take what he says as a grain of salt.
But like I said, I know what Origins said, it's that those 5 walkers will be a larger focus for the next big arc. So far we aren't really seeing it, but it'll happen soon for sure.
That doesn't mean the rest are abandon ware tho. This is like they said for the next big arc.
>>43611359
>We've been following Nissa around quite a bit, that makes her a protagonist
In OG Zendikar we followed Sorin who was with Nissa.
She then left the face of the earth until a core set. And now she's back fucking years and years later in the next Zendikar set.
Please tell me how we are following her more then Sorin?
>>43611358
I've seen less fanwank in the snowflake threads.
>>43611339
We've been following the eldrazi story for much longer. Sorin was a major player in it sure, but that's all backstory now. Currently it's Ugin and the Justicewalkers against the eldrazi. They're the ones with multi-planar consequences.
Let me put it this way. We all know the story of Urza vs Phyrexia. Now, how does that story help Koth fight the praetors? Outside of Karn, it doesn't do squat.
Replace Urza with Sorin and Phyrexia with the eldrazi. Now, how does that story help Jace fight Emrakul? Outside of Ugin, it doesn't do squat.
>>43611420
Because now she's the face of green, and a member of the Walker league. She and Sorin were both the faces of Zendikar. Their time in the spotlight. Then Sorin has been a supporting character ever since while Nissa is once again getting top billing. That's why she's a protagonist while Sorin is not.
>>43611470
So the fact that Sorin is currently not on Zendikar means he has 0 relation to the Zendikar story.
Even tho Ugin has told the Protag of blue, that without Sorin and Nahrie it's going to be near impossible?
>Then Sorin has been a supporting character ever since
What about when we wen't to his plane right after that? Or when we continued following him on Tarkir?
Lili sure has had plenty of spot light right? She's been the focus of like 1 UR in the past how many years? And that was the last core set that talked about her past?
Meanwhile Sorin is still a major player and Is most likely dealing with something huge that's keeping him from Zendikar.
>>43611358
Mm. No, you're wrong.
>>43611358
So, what about all those people whose initial ignitions had no physical component to them? Jace, Gideon, Narset...the list goes on.
Hell, the only one you could make any argument for is Domri.
>>43610222
>Clearly artificial sparks can be formed with the right set of circumstances since he was able to recreate his own spark with the Hedron Network when the allies tried to recapture Ulamog.
Reignite, not recreate. It's the same spark he had before, he just has it again.
>tfw Sorin is my favorite planeswalker, but that gives me association with the likes of chandere and whoever this asshole is
I just want to like a cool vampire, but that must be too much to ask for.
>>43611563
Here, let's put it in movie terms.
Each block, has been a movie, featuring the star character, with the other walkers being featured extras.
We went to Zendikar?
Starring: Nissa, because it was her journey with Sorin
Featuring Sorin and everyone else.
We went to Innistrad?
Starring: Liliana, because that was her story
Featuring: Every other walker, Sorin included
We went to Tarkir
Starring: Sarkhan and his quest for Ugin
Featuring: Everyone else.
Sorin himself has never been the spotlight for a block. Just because he shows up a lot doesn't change that. We don't follow Sorin. Sorin arrives on places where he has some relation.
>>43611563
>Even tho Ugin has told the Protag of blue, that without Sorin and Nahrie it's going to be near impossible?
So now Sorin is a McGuffin, a tool in the story. That doesn't make him the protagonist. That puts him on the same level as that girl in every anime that the heroes have to protect or else the world ends or some shit.
>>43611681
I feel for you anon.
>>43611563
>What about when we wen't to his plane right after that?
Yeah, and he did nothing. We were following Liliana.
>Or when we continued following him on Tarkir?
We didn't "follow" him on Tarkr by any stretch of the imagination. He happened to be there while we were following Sarkhan.
>>43611388
Then what are you complaining about again? You didn't made any point.
>>43611470
Liliana is currently the face of black, that's the point. Nobody is debating any of the other stuff you've posted.
>>43611655
We don't know that. The way they've described it, his spark was absorbed by the hedron shard. Why would he be able to hold onto it if it was within the Hedron shard that's not even in his body anymore?
>>43611796
Nah, this asshole is trying to insist that the Black face of Magic is Sorin because he's done more in his backstory than Liliana
>>43611816
>his spark was absorbed by the hedron shard.
Source? We know that the hedron put out his ability to planeswalk and his actions support this a lot more than "he was trying to break half the rules of the multiverse and make an artificial spark"
>>43611825
Why is Hairy Knuckles posting without her trip?
>>43611873
Cause I'm not some Trip.
Better that way too.
>>43611895
>muh sorin
>>43611909
>Only one person likes Sorin more then Lilly
That would be shitty.
>>43611933
>only one person doesn't understand that liliana is currently the face of black
>then
Is "than".
>>43609977
Karn basically "stole" it, or at least, it jumped in him.
Memnarch managed to stole a spark but not to implant it into himself.
Yawgmoth was positive he could steal a spark, but when he was in the position to do so he was already far too powerful to need it
>>43611853
An UR told us exactly that. Nahiri was quite powerful, even for oldwalkers standards
>>43612065
Well, she did cover a plane with giant hedrons.
>>43611985
There's also the problem that Yawgmoth was convinced (fairly so, since he was a physician) that sparks were just an organ he could transplant, rather than a magical fact of the planeswalker.
>>43610544
Turns out Urabrask had a spark and decided to leave because his nature conflicted with whoel "New Phyrexia Order thing" too much. He is now living happily ona plane too young to have a namewith a bunch of goblins and viashino in the Mountian regions, teaching them stuff and exploring.
>>43612106
That was back in the days when he was corporeal.
When he manages to capture Urza and Gerrard, he's become so powerful he just amuses himself watching them battle to death
>>43589714
Can we keep this UR writer, specifically on this story, please?
I don't want another 3 rounds of 'Nissa's Retardation' by the awful UR writer.
>>43610544
Did Urabrask felt compassion for the resistance?
>>43612157
We won't heard about Teysa for quite a long time.
>>43612159
Maybe on some level since he felt conflicted about forcibly compleating people and he permitted the Mirrans to escape into the Furnace Layer.
However he is also Phyrexian so compassion is a foreign concept to him. Urabrask likely doesn't even really understand how he feels. Probably made him very withdrawn, trying to figure out what's going on and trying to stay out of the spotlight to avoid being caught having non-Phyrexian feelings, leading to his title: The Hidden.
>>43612159
He felt something. Something that he shouldn't have been able to feel. Urabrask is the outlire in the rule of Phyrexia. I'm sure if New Phyrexia came to full power across the multiverse, it would have constant riots and acts of treason coming from its red people.
Red V the rest, for all eternity becuase Red hates rules, Red hates controllers, and Red has feelings.
>>43612341
>If there's anything red hates...
Are you saying red has an ancient grudge against rules?
>>43612188
>>43612418
Congrats you made a pun.
>>43612341
>>43612232
>Basic facets of red compel an unfeeling machine lord to help some folks out
RED BEST COLOR
>>43612418
And collars.
>>43612445
Thanks?
>>43612636
Here have a sexy goblin.
>>43612689Still the Wednesday thread. If you want to get flakin' you kind of need to make a snowflake thread.
>>43612736
Sorry I did not know that was a flake. It was in my MTG art bin
>>43610544
The one known as the hidden is missing you do the math
>>43610544
Sheoldred is most certainly dead. Norn wouldn't let her live and contest her power. Jin Gitaxias works with her, Vorinclex is too retarded to resist, Urabrask would hide before dying, and Glissa is probably smart enough to comply with the Mother of the Machines.
so how does everybody feel about the new commanders? atleast ezuri got fugged
>>43614086
I didn't read the Meren story - does it take place in the present?
>>43614399
Yes, but it isn't a big deal. It felt like a fanfic.
>>43615258
The reason I asked is because if it did, then it means that ALL the commanders are from The Present.
Which could be the reason why we didn't get Feather or Crizizzzzzizxxxzizizxxxxizxixzzzizizizizix
>>43615575
You'd think Wizards would have had the foresight to tell us this, but I guess not.
>>43614086
I felt like we got a good mix of old characters, new characters from old planes, and characters pointing at a couple more planes coming up.
Orzhov and Simic are tied for the best lore commanders. Orzhov has Daxos AND Karlov, but Simic has Ezuri and Kaseto, giving updates on two planes people love.
Golgari is middle of the pack in terms of characters. Meren and Mazirek are relative nobodies, though on a pure power level they're the strongest deck.
Izzet and Boros fall last. Mizzix isn't Crixizix, Arjun is just there, Kalemne is mildly interesting, but Anya is painfully generic.
When you take into account the third reprint commanders Teysa, Melek, Jarad, Zegana, and Gisela, flavor rankings are:
1. Orzhov
2. Simic
3. Golgari
4. Boros
5. Izzet
>>43612157
Was Teysa always that stacked?I would be down for seeing her again. And when we eventually go back to this plot thread, Jace finding out about the guildpact-immune room.
>>43616584
Jace really should be on board with Teysa's plans. Tajic believes in her, and I'm sure Jarad and Ral Zarek would approve as well. Hell, tell Lavinia there's a place her rules don't apply and she'll be livid.
snowflake thread yet?
>>43618600
It's a Wednsday thread. These threads have 0 snowflakes no matter how many days have passed. You either need to make a snowflake thread now, or wait for this one to fall off the board, then make oneGood job bumping the thread and prolonging your wait for snowflakes.
>>43609289
Literal depictions of Biblical angels when, WotC?
>>43619049
SOI with corrupted angels.
>>43589714
Yo, open question about Archenemy
What does the game represent exactly? I got the sense that the Archenemies were plane-spanning villains, with grand machinations and terrible means. Yet the play is represented by asymmetric play against one...what? Planeswalker? God-being? Some powerful world-rocking wretch the a la O-Kigachi or Marit Lage?
If ever Archenemy returned, I hope that aspect gets some definition, or at least, we get some flavorful peeks at the multiverse.
>>43619980
Most likely?
A Big Bad planeswalker of some sort - the Archenemy is the Xenagos or the Bolas who is Up To No Good, and everyone else has to stop them.
Is it bad that i feel REALLY bad for Teysa even though she clear didn't think this shit through enough? I mean did she even try to figure out what kind of traps and secrets the council hides from even its own members?
But i still feel really bad for her, having to find out the hardest way possible that there is literally a a thousand years of bullshit between her and the power she desires. Poor thing.
>>43620325
Of course. Teysa is a protagonist of Ravnica, and a decent person to boot.
She's additionally a shield against dumblr, specifically "muh ableism". Her and Daretti are badass characters who:
-are disabled
-are not defined by their disability, but flavorful strengthened by it
-are not seen as less because of their disability
Also, TajicXTeysa is adorable.
What would you say are the most flavorful cards in each color?
>>43620996
Did Daretti get a UR?
>>43622366
Black would be Murder.
>>43622366
Savannah Lions.
Counterspell.
Murder.
Lightning Bolt.
Giant Growth.
>>43622374
No, though he was mentioned in one of Conspiracy's UR and got some detail in a supplemental product I think.
Basically, he is/was a Fioran goblin artificer who mentored Muzzio. His spark ignited in an explosion that blew off his legs, and on whatever plane he ended up on he built himself a chair with legs out of scrap, and had so far not returned to Fiora.
>>43622366
I'd say a lot of them could be the one mana, 3 effect spells from Alpha. Personally:
Holy Strength (or Healing Salve)
Mana Leak (or Counterspell)
Murder (or Drudge Skeletons)
Incinerate (or Lightning Bolt)
Giant Growth (or Giant Spider)
What are the aligments for the Origins 5?
>>43624759
Neutral fucking chaotic based on writer
Reminder that all will blah blah blah you know the rest
>>43612146
I wonder if he was even able to get a spark as a black cloud of death.
>>43627801
Well, before that he was human.
>>43628240
right, but I meant was it even possible for him to get a spark when he was the black cloud of death. We know Phyrexians can't but was he technically Phyrexian? If anything he was Black Mana
>>43627801
I think you're forgetting that he was essentially Phyrexian-Prime. WotC has explicitly said that sparks and Phyrexians are mutually exclusive things.
>>43628294
Yes, he very much practiced what he preached. Crazy fucker that he was, he DID do that.
>>43628305
Except Wizards has never been consistent on why exactly Phyrexia and sparks are like oil and water.
Is it the mind-controlling Oil?
Is it that full Compleation requires the subject to be torn apart and die, then put back together and raised as undead?
Is it because Phyrexians that were born in vats (aka as newts) weren't born but created, so are technically constructs like golems/elementals?
Is it because Phyrexians generally do not have nor cultivate souls, the home of the spark?
Golgari most boring guild and their jobs can easily be taken over by splitting them between all the other green guilds.
>>43630916
They've never HAD to be. They don't mix. End of story.
>>43620996
But I thought that not being defined by your disability was a thing tumblr hated
>>43631216
Tumblr doesn't know what it wants, ever.
If a character is defined by their disability, it's bad because how dare they just be their disability.
If they aren't defined by their disability, it's bad because it's Just Showing They Don't Know What It's Like
>>43630960
Well, it sets a bad precedent. How are we supposed to enjoy and theory craft when you haven't told us all the rules? I mean, part of why people weren't mad with the end of Theros block and the death of Elspeth was that they spelt out the rules that foretell her return, probably as Angelspeth.
Also fuck you, Golgari are the greatest guild. Yes, they have too many functions while Selesnya and Gruul have too few, but Return to Ravnica was a chance to fix that that they never did.
Face it. Golgari clean up the dead and the waste of Ravnica's people, and grow AND distribute nearly all the food. They sponsor the poor and the Guildless, and besides from a bit of inter-Guild leadership conflict have always been consistent. (And besides, Golgari has only had four leaders- Svogthir the parun for thousands of years, Sisters of Stone Death for probably a few hundred, Savra for five minutes, and Jarad since Dissension.
The Golgari Swarm has never faltered on their duty, even when the magically bonding Guildpact failed- unlike the Izzet who left the utilities to rot and burst while they jerked Niv-Mizzet off.
Golgari are the farmers, grocers, garbage workers, sanitation workers, plumbers, exterminators/bug real estate agents, and the only charities that don't want your soul or your mind under their control- as long as you're sucking the dick of Ouroboros and expelling it out the other side, they already have everything they want.
>>43631216
I don't know tumblr crowd are crazy, but I'd hope a strong, independent womyn who does what she wants, is always shone in a positive light, and has at least one man of another guild wrapped around her pinky, all while having a lame leg but NOT being unable to do everything other people do, would make them happy.
Although her being hot may turn some legbeards off of her.
And captcha is wheelchairs... Very apt.
>>43631556
Guild ranking:
Bro tier:
Golgari, Simic, Boros, Rakdos
Meh tier:
Izzet, Azorious, Dimir, Orzhov (solely through Teysa)
Shit tier:
Selesnya, Gruul
>>43630916
>>43631556
I believe that natural Phyrexians cannot have a spark because they are inherently artificial. Their existence is a twisted parody of true life.
I think compleation doesn't work on planeswalkers because it is a legitimate process that has to be carried/guided to the finished product of a Phyrexian. Back in the days of the Thran the first acts of compleation were simply going into a pod where your body would be artificially evolved and augmented. Then they stepped it up to vivisection, reassembling, etc. If a planeswalker is ever placed in that kind of situation they would likely planeswalk away.
The glistening oil serves only to create newts on a plane so that the newts can later compleat the native lifeforms.
>>43631556
>They sponsor the poor and the Guildless
They're a guild of unskilled labor. Of course they "sponsor" the poor. The poor work for food.
The Gruul only have too few because Ravnica shat on them, now that the Gruul have wilds back, it's very obvious that if you want actual meat instead of recycled from people Golgari Soylent, you buy Gruul meat, and there's no reason to believe that Selesnya doesn't grow fruit and other luxury foodstuff.
>unlike the Izzet who left the utilities to rot and burst while they jerked Niv-Mizzet off.
Well the Izzet seem to have done their job pretty well in-between sets seeing as how Ravnica never seemed to collapse without it's engineers. The one time they stopped was because they noticed something serious was happening, something the golgari didn't notice in their muck. But hey, at least they know their place, knee deep in filth and doing their dirty work out of sight of the people that make their society pleasant.
>Grocers
Grocery stores are business. That'd be Orzhov. Golgari would be suppliers.
>Real Estate Agents
Work as intermediaries between banks and you, that's Selesnya's express role as the glue in-between institutions. Alternatively, it's Orzhov again.
>Want your mind.
The Selesnya help charitable and extend the offer to join, but never force you. Additionally, with that black in the Golgari, as well as their "questionable sustenance," I wouldn't trust they offer charity out of the goodness out of their hearts. It's easy to grow a farm when fertilizer walks in for you.
The golgari aren't clean, figuratively or literally. Stop drinking their shit colored kool-aid.
>>43631726
>The Boros bro-tier instead of Azorius
One issues laws that keep the city running and stall problematic change, the other is a swat team with a warrant on whoever they damn well please.
>Izzet is meh
>Industry is meh, engineering is meh, physics is meh
Whatever you say luddite. Maybe you should ditch the technology and live out in the middle of nowhere, growing shrooms out of your own shit like the golgari if you love em so much.
>Dimir is meh
Too high
>Orzhov is meh
Literally Communist.
>Selesnya isn't meh
They aren't useless and keep the social aspects of society running. Sure a lot of them are cultist drones, but they're also easily the go-betweens in society that make your life easier.
>Gruul is shit
Man, I didn't know trying to take care of nature and the wilds was a bad decision.
>Keeping the world working tier:
>Azorius, Izzet, Orzhov
>Keeping people working tier:
>Selesnya, Golgari, Simic
>Special circumstances tier:
Boros, Rakdos, Gruul
>Absolutely useless tier:
Dimir
>>43631556
>The Golgari Swarm has never faltered on their duty
What about that bit where they directly contributed to the fall of the original Guildpact by corrupting Vitu-Ghazi and giving Szadek a door in?
