Do you guys like having special named characters for factions in different wargames?
Do you like fielding them or you rather have your own generic captains, with their own stories, merits and deeds crafted and imagined by yourselves?
How do you feel about games like Warhammer 40K, Fantasy, Infinity or WarmaHordes, that have dozens of named characters for every faction, each with their own backstories and defining traits?
Do you feel it adds to the complexity of the wargame, or you rather have your own backstories for your whole armies?
Maybe the same goes for Space Marine Chapters for example. Would you rather have your own chapters with their own colors and specialties? Same goes for Warhammer, Mordheim or whatever.
I've noticed a trend towards named characters in the most popular and recent wargames.
Pic related it's Achilles from Infinity. Also, Infinity sculpts are fucking gorgeous
>>43589505
infinity is horrible at taking random historical character, tossing them in, and their wargame mechanics don't do anything the real character would do.
bad starting example.
worse, WarMaHordes has no customization, and you are forced to play with a Named Character.
40K, for all the shit it gets, is best in that you have to discover who the guy is, and you can just leave him out....
40K is also about 'Your Dudes'
>>43589820
Well that's more or less the debate, but I grant you the point.
What if the named characters were described the same way they act mechanically on the tabletop? I mean, if the fluff says the guy is a master tactician, the rules of the game should represent this.
Just imagine if it was nicely done, maybe the example was bad, I don't know, never played too much Infinity. Was going to post a WH40K image, but anyway...
What do you mean about 40K is best in that you have to discover who the guy is?
About 'your dudes', yeah, I think that's what the debate is about.
For example, in a game like Mordheim, Necromunda, 40K kill teams or whatever I think that having no named characters adds a lot. I've never seen a skirmish game like that, with lots of advancements and everything that included named characters. But in a competitive game, where all kinds of effects and trade offs can be included... are they worth?
>>43589873
He means that if in a game of IG vs Orks, you have a meganob that annihilates all three of the enemies Lemans, you might name the meganob Bolgog Tankkrumpa. And then what ever his backstory is might evolve from the events of that game.
>>43589917
True, and that's specially important in games with progression. But I guess I can see the value of that in competitive play too
>>43589873
Couldn't you do that in Infinity as well? Like if some stock dude tears apart a TAG with a Claymore, you could name that dude and have his story evolve from there.
>>43589820
>Achilles
>Is amazing at single combat, is better than you, extremely tough to bring down, only has scant weaknesses
>SunTze
>Gives you the top level of Strategos, increases your ability to Command
>Joan D'Arc
>Inspires your men, is a female knight in heavy armor, Deus Vult
>William Wallace
>Is a Muh Freedom Scotsman, Inspires his men
>Musashi
>Is a Muh honor dual wielding duelist
Remind me which ones don't represent the myths/public image of historical or fictional characters?
>>43590008
But do they add flavor to the game or they're just a gimmick?
>>43590305
Aren't they basically gimmicks in universe?
Hell, I know Wallace was originally supposed to destabilize Ariadna so that ALEPH could put its AI jackboot on Freedom's neck.
>>43589820
Any game can be about your dudes no matter how much they decide to name it and give it their own backstory.
An example is from Privateer Press with one guy changing up his Eyriss model to be more Khadoran and non-knife ear and making his own story from there. Sure, in the rules and model silhouette it'll be recognized as Eyriss, but the way she's painted/altered and imagined by the player makes her something else.
>>43589505
>>43589820
I agree with the fact that 40K is the only game that I play which has "character customization" to a certain extent, and I have always loved it, it motivates me into converting shit and making it "mine". It also has (or used to have at least) a similar vein for units in general, so even your small fry dudes were still "your dudes" and you could make them significatively different from another player's dudes, even if they were technically the same faction and everything.
I try to always use the "generic" options in wargames as I always want my little plastic/metal dudes (and dudettes) "mine", that includes avoiding named characters even if it puts me at a disadvantage, and I really, really don't like WarMaHordes mainly because it has the polar opposite of such a thing.
Unfortunately 40K is going places. I still have Infinity, though, and it has plenty of "generic" characters, which is something I really like. I'm also told I'm not fucked over before the game even starts if I choose not to pick them, which is always a plus.
The best way to handle this, I've seen, is for the heroes and legends of a faction to be vaunted and highlighted, and some of them playable, but not the primary focus behind things. People make factions in a variety of wargames because they appreciate the military's lore or the strategies they can use. If your wargame runs on making an (Insert commander) army rather than an army using said commander to help it, it starts becoming restrictive and turns it into "My character's army versus yours", not "My army versus yours".
I really like wargames that have legendary heroes that have stories, plots, and other stuff, but give us different characters as commanders, so that we can place our trust in these guys and make them our own legends.
>>43590361
I'm in the "my dudes" camp as well and usually avoid special characters. The good thing about 40k is the vastness of the universe - you can easily justify using Pask for your own Guard regiment, or have Prince Yriel lead your custom craftworld.
There are however other characters that are "more" uinique imho - like the Phoenix Lords.
With Infinity I think it's different - there is no galaxy encompassing empire with millenia of history and warp fuckery to mess with things.
I play Aleph and for me it feels awkward to have someone like Achilles in my army - his fluff is just so specific (he and his buddies from the Homeridae kicking combined ass). I mean there's even media coverage of their heroic battles to give the masses something to cheer.
It just feels weird to pair him up with a couple of dasyus and infiltrate some yu jing secret lab or something.
I have an enire squad of "my dudes"I play 40k killteam
>>43590305
Yes, they add flavour.
Hell, some of them entirely change the way your army functions. Even Achilles, who doesn't do anything for your dudes, totally changes the way you play, because your army becomes an Achilles Delivery System.
>>43589505
Man.
I saw someone make an amazing re-sculpt of Achilles for Vedic ALEPH, giving him a more arms and styling him as Shiva the Destroyer. It was unfinished when I last saw it bit was looking extremely cool.
>>43591096
>Achilles Delivery System.
Is Achilles really that good? He sounds like an unconquerable boogieman of the battlefield.
>>43591132
Nothing in Infinity is as OP or hard to drop as certain things in, say, 40K, but Achilles is most certainly the most frightening dude-sized model in the game.
He's essentially a TAG (those big mechanized suits) in a tight human sized package and is unparalleled in CQC. I can't really think of anything that has better shooty skill than him either, though plenty of things have bigger guns.
Like everything in Infinity, he needs support, but he's often going to be your workhorse if he's in your army.
>>43591132
He's really damn good, but also expensive in points, and Infinity has enough ways to take stuff out that he'll end up punching well below his weight if you don't give him the right kinds of support. Meaning that he'll probably be the only cool toy you get to bring.
>>43589505
I currently play Malifaux, Firestorm Armada, and plan to go back to Infinity. The first is literally all about named characters, with only disposable grunts being generic. The second has only a handful of "named chars" which are, for all intents, just modifications to force organization chart, not actual game pieces. So..it's all depending on context. When i was a wee kid of 20 I hated the idea of named chars, thinking they somehow take away from the awesomeness of my unnamed generic hero. Now I plain don't care- are the game mechanics fun? Then great, that's all i wanted to know.
>>43589505
How do you feel about games like Warhammer 40K, Fantasy, Infinity or WarmaHordes, that have dozens of named characters for every faction, each with their own backstories and defining traits?
The Warhammers do it best. They give named as options, but let you make your own generic to your own naritive
Warmahordes sucks because you HAVE to use their speshul snowflake robo-wizard
>>43589505
I like having them around as an option. Mixed feelings though when it gets kinda weird in tournaments where people use named characters from a purely competitive standpoint and the same character is facing his/herself. I don't like when that happens, and generally prefer generic leaders because of it. But then again, I also don't like many named characters who are unoptimized, so if there were ways of customizing them that's be cool, but that usually doesn't happen with Warhammer or Warmahordes. I do fall in love with some characters and field them. I don't think it particularly adds complexity to a wargame. I like having the options for making my dudes my own dudes.
>>43589505
Funny, I was actually going to start a thread about personal named characters.
I play succession games with a few people holding off against my hive fleet.
There's IG and marines defending hive worlds, Eldar defending a maiden world and so on. Wins and losses forge the narrative and we keep a record of accomplishments and the fallen. Tyranids are kind of the go to for filling up a character's resume in 40k, maybe only behind Orks, so it's still fun even if I lose.
My hive tyrants are always the same two, just reborn if slain, so they've got an ever growing body count. Tyranids don't really have names, so we just use whatever we come up with at they time. They have been affectionately referred to as
"Biggs and Wedge"
"Bebop and Rocksteady"
"Simon and Garfunkel"
"Lennie and George"
"Hootie and The Blowfish"
"Fuckboi and Shitlord"
"those two cunts"
and others
I don't hear about narrative games much outside my circle, is it even popular with anyone else out there?
>>43591185
Having 15's in all of the stats that normally cap at 15 when on giant battle TAGs will do that for you. Yojimbo or Musashi have good odds at beating him in CC, and Penthesilea is actually decent at fighting him, but Shinobu would be my pick if I wanted someone with better than even odds at punking him out. Surprise Attack MA 5 with a Monofilament weapon = Get Dunked.
>>43592141
Unless something changed this edition (possibly) the best way to off him was sepsitor.
>>43592387
You can dodge sepsitor now, and resist with a BTS save. He went down to arm 4, so any MSV unit can shoot him to death
>>43589505
I like and dislike that. Having named characters is a good thing, but then a lot of then appear a ton of times in the game. Like when I was playing LoTR a long time ago and my goblins curbstomped Elrond. Nigga. Im curbstomping an immortal charater that by lore should not die in any battle! Or a guy that is two star system away from my fleet, or a dead person. I can bare it, but it feels weird... Also I like to give my own flavor to armies and have my own custom commanders, which is hard on almost any game to have. You can take I dont know, Sorcha from warmachine and make a not!Sorcha, ut she works like her, people will actually call her by Sorcha and will not feel like shes yours, but an converted hero.
Thats actually one of the things who took my attenttion out of warmahordes and get it on gw games, I actually can have my guy truy to beat other guy in huge battles that doesnt even have books about them, there are rules for him to evolve with each game in campaings and make you feel like he acomplished something.
Actually, there is any other games who let you have a customizable generic character for your army?
>>43593331
40k
>>43593354
I mean, other than Gw games.
>>43593652
I guess you could do with SW-X-wing and SW armada. Like having a pilot or ship admiral/captain named and gived a bit of a backstory
>>43593652
No. I mean, beyond historical games like FoW where the "hero" is literally just a command group of random officers that will die hard if attacked directly.
>>43593703
MIght be cool, my friends would like that I think.
>>43593725
Sad, I prefer fictional over historical. The group/character being squishy isnt a problem as long as the game is fun.
>>43589505
Named characters are fine. Realistically, nobody gives two shits about your Mary Sue special snowflake custom character, they just want to know what fucking rules he's using so they can get on with the game. Named characters with fixed rules save everyone the time of figuring out exactly what wargear Chaper Master Superawesome BetterthanCalgar is using.
>>43595793
>Realistically, nobody gives two shits about your Mary Sue special snowflake custom character, they just want to know what fucking rules he's using so they can get on with the game.
This.
Once most people grow up a bit and stop thinking their the hottest of shits with great ideas all the time they seem to care less about using named characters.
>>43590361
Same here.
The whole reason why nothing changes in 40k is because it's meant to be about your own personal battles and armies.
I'm not going to spend the ridiculous prices GW charge and then paint them the same as generic chapter 201.
>>43593331
Warzone resurrection by a wide margin, big customization with Wolsung, Judge Dredd has that too and a flaviour of zombie and post apoc games habe some.
And lastly there is a range of mordheim like games
>>43590305
if you don't know the infinity fluff don't criticize. how infinity handles a.i., cloning technology and reincarnation, bringing historical figures back from the dead was a no brainer.
>>43598459
Why so defensive fag?
