So I've noticed in the rogues that I've played that there is hardly ever an opportunity to actually use stealthy abilities thanks to the rest of the party.
First of all, the tank's clanking armor is basically an acoustic middle finger to stealth. The only way to deal with this is to declare that you're walking in front of the group far enough that their noise won't affect your stealth. In a dungeon crawl, that might not even be an option.
Even if you are able to stealth ahead of the party. It seems like no one wants to wait at the table for the rogue to do his thing (I've seen this happen both when I'm playing a Rogue and when I'm playing something else). Players start to tune out because they start thinking that the Rogue is hogging the spotlight. I've even seen some DMs behave as if though that's what they're thinking, actively trying to bring the focus back to the party as a whole.
>Have you tried not playing d&d?
I'm at that point now. So if this is the solution, then I'm all ears for a system where stealth is a realistic option for the players.
tl;dr, How do I enjoy stealth mechanics in an RPG?
By if bothering for the stealth option is done solitary for scouting purposes. Hiding during combat to do an attack from concealment. Or the entire party goes stealth (monks, rogues, ranger etc)
>>43583217
Your issues aren't arising from the system, they're due to the rest of the group both not wanting to be stealthy and not wanting you spending time alone being stealthy.
Find some way to make them stealthy, and all sneak around together. Problem solved.
>>43583250
This is the best way to handle it. There's nothing wrong with the occasional stealth check on behalf of the tank.
I had a session where my character did some stealth shit. How it worked was that the party's story was told in two parts with me doing my thing and them doing theirs with us eventually meeting up again having accomplished our respective tasks. No one had to stop doing anything or hog a spotlight since we were all still doing something, just in different locations.
We all had fun so I think it worked well.
>>43583217
If you don't see a lot of good stealthy characters, I'm sure there's a good reason for that.
>>43583217
I don't have any problem like that. I'm the only stealthy character and the players and the dm let me be stealthy and hog the spotlight.
And then when it's talk time they take it since I got shit charisma
>no one wants to wait at the table for the rogue to do his thing
A lot of the time characters' 'things' are pretty contradictory, it takes a good GM to have situations where PCs can shine doing their thing but not take too long that other players lose interest.
Personally if the party gets split up I make damn sure everyone has something interesting going on. It sucks as a player to have your character doing boring stuff meanwhile other characters are fighting for their lives.
Otherwise stealth works best in urban or maybe wilderness landscape, with a larger scale than the doors and corridors of your typical dungeon. You have the rest of the party distract some noble at his door\foyar while you sneak in back, etc. So again it's a adventure planning\design question, which a lot of is up to your GM.
>not D&D
Just anything where conflict resolution is faster, so you can jump between rogues roguing and mages maging and fighters fighting quickly enough nobody gets bored.
>>43583250
>>43583273
What would that look like though? You ask a tank to remove, or even just downgrade, his armor and he starts acting like you just suggested that he punch his mother.
>>43583279
How would you overcome the group's resistance to splitting the party?
>>43583250
it is a system problem as well, I think. Stealth is nerfed in a lot of games.
>>43583334
>Personally if the party gets split up I make damn sure everyone has something interesting going on.
This.
Usually when I go sneak around the mages are trying to figure out some arcanic puzzle or something like that
>>43583334
Do you have any suggestions for a system like this?
>>43583217
Operate outside of the party, and probably find another rogue or thief to work in tandem with while the rest of the group does their thing being a distraction.
>>43583334
>Otherwise stealth works best in urban or maybe wilderness landscape, with a larger scale than the doors and corridors of your typical dungeon.
Is it just me or are there fewer traps in dungeons than there used to be? Traditionally the thief was a big help in making sure people didn't catch a poison dart or fall down a chute.
Fun Fact:
Players are shit people. All of them. They build a character, because they want everyone to watch them play that character. Everything that does not let them show off their character is "anti-fun" and ruins the game for them.
You cannot make a party of players work together. You cannot make them restrain themselves so you can do your character's thing. They will always, at all times, be thinking of how they can solve every situation using only themselves.
Your issues do not stem from any system, because even the best system with the most balanced rules in the world will still suffer from shit players.
The only winning move is not to play.
>>43583450
And that's why the party tolerate when you sneak around. You disarm the trap. Or you die instead of them.
>>43583461
>bait
>>43583450
>Is it just me or are there fewer traps in dungeons than there used to be?
Yes, because players will cry and throw a temper tantrum if you put a trap in their path, and they take some damage or are prevented from moving forwards because of it.
>>43583217
Rework how you approach environments. You don't all have to use the same door. Send the Rogue through the 2nd floor window of the Mansion while the party goes through the back door, etc.
>>43583450
I've also run into characters that can negate traps. Usually a caster with a summoned pet walking ahead of the party to trigger any traps.
This is actually a good litmus test I use for if DM is good or not.
1. Can he handle stealthy characters?
2. Can he accurately handle characters with money, authority, or status? That is, not ignore it completely, and not let players use it as an excuse to get everything.
If a DM can do those things, he's miles ahead of the average DM in my book.
>>43583473
Man, people are so soft these days. Dungeon-exploration used to be slow as fuck because there was always some strange way to die.
>>43583528
that works too. Probably more effective if you're not too attached to your conjurations.
>>43583357
On my group, this is never a problem since as grown-ass men sometimes we're missing a guy due to kids/work/real life being a fucking whore/etc. so a lot of times we roleplay something just by ourselves or we "sent him on an errant" that he can roleplay with the GM another day before the next session.
>>43583495
It also falls to you to come up with interesting shit, not just the GM, here's an example from a sneaky mehket I was playing in a vamp game, the rest of the party was organizing a trap on this Christmas party for the local vamps when I told GM via messenger (We play online) "Can I use this chance to sneak into the BBEG's mansion?" he said "sure you can!" and we ended up doing a quick thing by myself while everyone else was closing the noose around this vamp whore to get her to break elysium and we could take her down. at the end of the session my GM ended up giving me a few extra in-game things and extra XP for "Showing initiative" so don't be afraid of proposing cool shit you can do on your own.
>>43583217
Rogues are made totally superfluous by magic-users anyway, so it should be a moot point. By playing a Rogue in the first place. you're already playing the game wrong, and thus all further complaints are moot.
>>43583461
>They will always, at all times, be thinking of how they can solve every situation using only themselves.
Well, I'll admit that as a player, I do this, but that's mostly because I know all of my characters strengths and limitations. The other characters? I get the general idea of what they're about from how they're played and what their players say about them, but I have no idea what, exactly, they can and can't do.
>>43583217
>go into stealth mode
>enemies are drawn to the noisey, unsubtle tank, ignoring you completely
>as they are drawn into combat with party tank, ambush from behind/sneak forward and burn enemy camp/retrieve object/etc
How have you never done this
>>43583528
and the forces that grant them these powers are okay with them abusing them in this way?
Wizards, meh. But I had a cleric that would just strap magical 'bombs' on their summons and send them on suicide missions. When he started doing this to Vrocks, he started to notice repercussions.
he argued they were returned, unharmed, to their plane of existence. I argued, you stole something so vile and hating of humans, put it into bondage to 'die' on your whim, and you don't expect it to bear you a grudge?
If you're playing pathfinder, OP, you might want to take a look at this feat: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/stealth-synergy-teamwork
it does require some investment from the rest of the party, however, unless of course you happen to be one of the few classes with the cavalier ability to share teamwork feats.
>>43583217
>in front of
Well I found your problem.
>>43586622
>what are scouts
