What cards are so good, but just don't see play.
>>43540286
banned cards
>>43540286
I -think- that sees play in Death and Taxes. Legacy version at least.
Up until BFZ released, I would have said Crackling Doom. 2 to the face plus guaranteed death for their biggest threat? Very yes.
For Modern, I would say Obliterator. That quad-B cost makes for much difficulty in actually casting it, though.
>>43540286
It sees play in GW hate bears
>>43542032
Just put it with tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil.
This nigga right here. Especially when you get more than one out. Pumped hexproof fliers for dayyyyssss
>>43540286
Since Dig and Ruse Cruise were banned in legacy, it has been pretty bad.
Only home it ever had was in DnT.
Swan song
>>43540286
When someone responds to your Brainstorm by tapping their Aether Vial on 2, I assure you, this card is seeing play.
>>43542148
Little dense on the scooze and twilight mires. Where's your thoughtseize?
>>43542439
uh, it doesn't stop dig through time
at allmoron
also why would spirit of the labyrinth even be good to begin with? it's just a random death and taxes hatebear, it doesn't see play because there's nothing inherently good about it
>>43540296
Underrated post in an Underrated thread. Nice.
>>43542157
holy SHIT anon this card literally does NOTHING
>they just kill the captain before killing the other shit
>>43542838
Go read Brainstorm.
>>43542845
Underrated appreciation of an underrated post in an underrated thread.
>>43542904
yeah cool but it stops your own brainstorm too, moron
if only there were some kind of similar creature except with flash, oh and also if only it didn't stop your own brainstorm, and drew you 3 cards when they tried to brainstorm as well as stopping their brainstorm
wouldn't that be cool?
yeah, sure wish there such a thing
>>43542962
>yeah cool but it stops your own brainstorm
D&T doesn't run many.
>>43542974
doesn't run any, obviously
and it doesn't run notion thief because it's not in those colors
im just making fun of you maroons for thinking spirit of the labyrinth is a good card
God Tier
>>43543058
It's good in its own little niche.
>>43542902
Not if you play two
>>43542902
Nigga that's card advantage and tempo right there.
"You can't answer my other threat until you deal with this one."
Literally what are you smoking?
>>43543310
yeah, sure. death and taxes is a good deck. although I would tend to think of most of the cards in that deck as being individually subpar but they play their roles well and make the deck good together.
>>43543484
i think it is neither card advantage nor tempo. it's not card advantage because it dies to removal 1 for 1. a 3 mana creature that doesn't draw you a card, make another creature, or really do anything at all is basically the opposite of card advantage. compare to cards like snapcaster, elvish visionary, or abbot of keral keep. even if it sticks around, it's not generating advantage the way dark confidant is. don't get me wrong though i wouldn't call 1 for 1 anti card advantage either, the real reason the card is bad is because it's bad tempo. it's a 3 drop that dies to every single 1 mana removal spell. you pay 3 mana for a card that doesn't actually do anything, and they pay 1 mana to kill it and can still cast other things - tempo is a card like harbinger of the tides that makes a mana efficient body and puts them back on mana by bouncing a creature.
want to see a card that is tempo and card advantage? check this baby out, kira makes card advantage because they have to burn 2 spells just to get through the shield that actually includes itself unlike drogshit captain AND tempo for the same reason - they have to cast those 2 spells with mana.
>>43543484
ignore him, there's been an influx of tryhards in the MtG threads who think dies to removal is a valid argument
>>43543932
lol stupid timmy
>>43543932
That's a shame. I'd hope people would know better by now, but I'm not surprised.
>>43544044
Shouldn't you be studying for your spelling test tomorrow?
>>43543582
dies to sac based removal, 0/10 would not play
>>43544185
i mean, if you don't have any other creatures
or just choose to sac it like a maroon
>>43540286
That 1 toughness really hurts. It dies to darkblast and gutshot. I think it would see a lot more play if it was a 2/2.
>>43543932
>dies to removal is a valid argument
Well. Lets not go the complete opposite direction either.
It's important to keep removal in mind when comparing it to other cards.
>>43544632
but if you also pull a 180 and focus hard on the core of the argument and take that to it's most logical extreme. "Dies to removal" is a poor-mans "stopped by counter-spell" and thus the game is unplayable to these people that think like that.
For them, the only wining moves are to not play, and bitch about how bad they are by trying to bring people down to their level of thinking
>>43544632
True, but there will always be an answer for everything. Mass removal, Languish, etc.
I just don't think that it should be especially high on the list of things to consider as to whether a card is good or not.
Neutral question: What's more important: evasion or resistance to removal?
>>43544745
And then you can pull of a 1080 on the sweet half pipe and win the FNM
>>43544814
Depends, really.
If your card is able to do something immediately, including damage, I'd say evasion is far more important. You can accomplish the mission quickly so it's more important to not get tripped up.
If your card's main thing is building up what it does over time, then I'd say resistance to removal is important.
Sometimes you get cards that do both, though, and people bitch incessantly if you ever use them.
>>43543310
Losing to death and taxes feels like losing to a bad standard deck
I got turn three Blightsteel with this once.
>>43546046
Turn three? What mana accel were you packing to get that card out on turn 2?
>>43546186
turn 1 ancient tomb, mana crypt, grim monolith, izzet signet, master transmuter
turn 2 blightsteel colossus
>>43546186
ashmonds alter saced a token and other shit and my team mate played a card that decreased card cost
>>43546257
LMAO
>>43546257
now i remember he played helm of awakening, i think, the thing that makes everything one colorless cheaper.
So, Hey! Need some help. I'm trying to find a place with all the cards past and present online because i want to read up on the cards and see what they can do.
However i haven't been able to find anything yet is there such a place?
>>43546679
gatherer.magic.com and magiccards.info are searchable databases of all cards in the game
>>43546762
Thanks both seem useful, magicards seems very useful as it has random feature.
>>43547689
So does Gatherer. Scroll down.
>>43544945
Sigarda a best
>>43546679
If you've got a smart phone then MTGFamiliar is a pretty good app for it.
>>43543167
I love this guy
>>43543497
As a DnT player, I would argue that the opposite is true. You don't get the card filtering that other decks do, so you only get to see 10ish cards per game. Every single one of your cards needs to be really strong because of this.
Thalia, Mother, Serra Avenger, Wasteland, Port,and Stoneforge Mystic are not cards I would call weak. Some of the strongest creatures in the format.
I dont play Spirit because its ONLY good if you vial it in, otherwise its just a 3/1 with no evasion
>>43549703
i mean, having deck filtering may let you run more situational cards, but it doesn't mean you should run more weak cards. that doesn't make any sense. each card in any deck needs to be strong in the context of that deck, obviously. what im saying is that when you look at a card like hymn or jtms, you don't even need to think about the deck it goes in or the metagame you are playing in. they are clearly powerful inherently. when you look at thalia, there's no inherent strength there. she's not played in modern, for example. yet she is one of the most important creatures for death and taxes, just because of what death and taxes as a deck itself is and the legacy metagame that it attacks.
>>43550309
Wow. That's actually pretty damn good. I want to make a deck with it.
>>43542148
How do you take advantage of lili in that deck with no graveyard recursion?
>>43550382
Nearly all of the good dromoka support in DTK was crippled by GG or WW. You cannot place say hardened scales T1 and then cast something like Anafenza Kin Tree the next turn. It would be amazing if Avatar and Anafenza were G1 and W1 respectively.
>>43551433
>It would be amazing if Avatar and Anafenza were G1 and W1 respectively.
It would have been amazing assuming you enjoyed playing Siege Rhinos versus other Siege Rhinos
>>43551433
Yeah, I see that the GG is what killed it. It's not going to be in a top8 any time soon. But it's still pretty decent for some kind of weird standard homebrew or kitchen table magic.
>>43551530
Ugh. I wish you could use him over this guy. Aside from the niche tactic of giving Persecutor to your opponent. It's always better to use D.D.
I'll always like Persecutor better though.
Seriously, this is a good lifegain/removal creature, have a Stromkirk captain out and its gonna stay on the field for a while.
>>43549703
How does dread of night feel?
>>43551530
He becomes even more god-tier with a couple of dark rituals and flings in your deck. Turn 3-4 victory possibly.
Cards do not exist in a vacuum, there is a reason most of these never saw play. Its context.
>>43542902
Yeah anon, clearly all creatures without hexproof are worthless.
If you actually knew your shit, you'd realize that as a 3-drop, even if he gets killed right away that's neutral tempo or a very slight tempo disadvantage, and that's worst-case scenario.
>>43553155
He's a lord for a tribe that didn't have a lot of standard playables. He's great in limited
>>43552910
Pretty bad man. Its not unbeatable, just almost.
>>43552713
>Vampire Nighthawk
>underrated
Seriously, this is a good artifact, it gives you 3 mana on the spot that you can use to do anything. Amazing card, totally underrated.
![27102012018[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/46TM8JF.jpg "27102012018[1].jpg")
>>43540286
>>43553024
The reason why some great cards never saw play is simply because there's no role for them. Card playability has nothing to do with a particular card's power level, but rather with whether it fills a niche in a deck.
A lot of these cards are clearly goodstuff. Being goodstuff isn't what gets a card play.
![rc225_packrat[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lv98zeZ.jpg "rc225_packrat[1].jpg")
>>43540286
>>43553440
A lot of these saw play, but the decks they went in just weren't that good. Nighthawk was in standard vampires, abysal persecuter was in a bunch of bad decks and master transmuter was in some combo decks. They just never did enough
>>43553340
this kills the card advantage
>>43553337
>only makes one color
shit
>>43553710
This. And it only works ONCE. My everflowing chalice can give me mana every turn.
It's just waiting to be broken
>>43553704
Only if you're doing it wrong
Basking Rootwalla in modern when?
>>43554154
I can see this card being good with Lotleth Troll. And now i'm Inspired to brew a B/G madness deck.
>>43553710
>>43553745
But it let's you play Gray Ogre turn one!
>>43554154
>Madness will never be a mechanic again
More like Sadness.
>>43553340
>>43553710
>>43554236
>What is Jund Hellbent?
>>43554154
Maro hates Madness because it's apparently unintuitive or something.
>>43554636
Does this faggot like anything?
>>43554869
Battle for Zendikar
>>43554869
Megamorph, presumably
>>43553537
Are you the guy that is pretending that Vampire Nighthawk is underrated?
>>43553704
>implying discard outlets are card disadvantage
>>43554869
Blue, and blue exclusively :^)
>>43553340
Oh zombie tribal golgari, how i miss you
>>43540286
i bought like 10 on speculation
>>43550824
its modern, and its B/G works the same as jund, minus bolds, lava mancers and so on. it just value buy the time you really plus a lili you have 1 or 2 cards in had and bin lands, also the deck could use some lotus cobras
>>43543167
in a sublime archangel deck ohhhhhhhhhhhhh yes, also synergy is nice with a fog bank
>>43554869
Worthless cards.
>>43553484
ahhhhhh the draft killer
>>43555822
Man. I fucking love Sublime Archangle. I used her as a win condition in Green white aggro back in standard. It was so fucking amazing. Mana dork into strangleroot rancor into silverblade into resto or it for game on turn 4. Standard will never be that fun for me again.
>>43550824
Lili doesn't need Graveyard recursion to be bullshit though it does help.
>>43555836
i miss innastrad/RTR too :( back when RDW was fun to play
>>43555847
A lot more things used to be fun to play.
>>43555856
I'm still in love with jund and huntmaster of the fells because of it.
Its still solid at some edh tables
>>43542148
need some thought seizes instead inquisition of kozlek. Abrupt decay and inquisition hit the same things. cut two twilight mires they're nice for consistency but red deck wins is too popular and blood moon is almost auto lose. baby goyf tasigur can fit pretty well. I would normally suggest mutilate since look at those swamps but hey you look rich enough to put the good ole damnation in since rush is so popular
>>43551530
I once played against a deck that ran four of these, four damnations and four other black wraths, can't remember which one. He would just beat face with hugely efficient beaters then wipe them
>>43555960
There's a highlight of someone ripping that against a Jace TMS or Brainstorm or something at a legacy event and even the judge just starts laughing.
>>43555960
It sees play in Vintage. Totally worth spending a lotus on.
>>43556525
Spirit of the Labyrinth is also a powerhouse in Vintage.
Vintage is a real fuckin strange format.
>>43542148
I would only use one Tomb of Yawgmoth and no more then two Twilight Mire.
>>43556512
HOLY SHIT, that's funny. jank as fuck, but that's great
>>43555960
>>43556512
found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28EW7MAfxnI
>>43556939
Time code?
>>43540286
What about cards that are considered OP but are still underrated? Like Black Lotus or Snapcaster Mage?
>>43546046
this card is so broke I love it
>>43556946
5:30
>>43556552
any format where slash panther is playable is gonna be a strange format
>>43550824
Thats not the point, modern GBx forces the opponent into topdecking and then outvalues the opponent one card at a turn.
>>43544185
You just proved how bad you are at magic
The only sac based removal in modern that matters is Jund Liliana.
But that does not matter because Abrupt Decay exists and you are shit at this game and should stop playing
>>43557413
>Slash Panther
Wait what
>>43554636
>Maro hates Madness because it's apparently unintuitive or something.
It absolutely is. Oh by the way it's also CRAZY FUN!
When is Maro gonna die? As time goes on I hate more and more of his design philosophies.
>>43558099
Specialist Jace removal tool.
>>43558272
No it was in a MUD deck. It doesn't require colored mana and kills the opponent quickly when played early in multiples preferably
>>43558119
I wish someone would purge all of wotc. Their modern r&d sucks, anyone doing any coding or anything related to Mtgo sucks. They could be making way more money than they are now.
>>43558099
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/773
>>43558119
Madness was a pretty broken deck that wasn't fun to play against
>>43555284
No, standard vampires was alright but only because of nocturnus
>>43558272
Mishra's Workshop is one hell of a card.
>>43542788
I was thinking the same thing. I think there are 2 oozes and then 2 CoK behind them?
>>43540286
Represents 6 damage by turn 3. Going all in, it's not hard to get turn 3 kills in Modern decks built to use him (though this is obviously vulnerable to disruption). 6 from your two-power 1-drop + 6 from him + 6 from burn + 2 from their lands. Turn 4 kills are your bad games.
I do understand why he doesn't see play, though. He needs at least 8 multicolor 1-drops to work, and while Rakdos Cackler is good enough, who's going to be Cackler 5-8? Figure of Destiny is slower than you'd like, Dryad Militant is decidedly meh, and your options only get worse from there.
>>43558642
Woops, Math on that is off. You only get 4 from the 1-drop, but 9 from burn (combination of lightning bolts, lava spikes, and shard volleys)
>>43555960
It gets used in Legacy/Vintage due to it's combo with Dack Fayden. Use Dack's +1 ability to target the opponent, notion thief lets you draw the 2 cards instead, but the opponent still has to discard 2
>tfw I'm the only one playing this in my blue EDH decks.
>>43558966
I fucking hate that card in EDH, both because of the situation disadvantages it gives me and also because it's a pain in the ass to find space on the table for your hand
