Pathfinder General /pfg/
Knight-Chandler edition
If you are asking for build advice, please mention if any third-party books are allowed, and if so, which.
Unified /pfg/ link repository:
http://pastebin.com/HwxEjiKW
Previous thread: >>43529506
Knight Chandler trading out for Thrashing Dragon and its style feat chain has pretty solid synergy now.
>Hit an enemy once, light it up, hit it again and heal right after
>Multi attack strikes, and even your non-strike attacks mean you multiply the extra damage per round from your class abilities
>>43539077
Also how will they go up stairs?
Can they, like...hop?
>>43539177
Climb check similar to a human having to go up a 5 foot wall.
>>43539177
But.. aren't they flying in the picture? I'm just going to add 30 fly to the non-flying ones.
>>43539196
The Aether one is using telekinesis on the others.
>>43539196
The fire one only has 20 fly anyway.
>>43539096
>Clownpiece as a knight-chandlerA being of pure life. Holy shit it works.
>>43537868
Also I think a small aether elemental would make a pretty neat familiar. Constantly invisible and it can throw around stuff weighing up to 100 pounds as much as it wants.
>>43539289
Actually shit, familiars have HD = class level, don't they? So they can throw stuff weighing 50 lb per level.
The Psion Uncarnate from Ultimate Psionics is "intended" for full manifesters, but only grants 6/10 manifesting. It's a half bab class, so its not ideal for combat guys either.
I want to play one anyway and to be honest i want to give it a shot as a kind of hybrid melee/manifester that can abuse its incorporeal touch through a conducting weapon.
Does anyone have advice for the psion uncarnate or otherwise being an incorporeal douchebag?
>>43539289
>>43539314
How can this benefit an Eldritch Guardian or a Rogue with the talent that grants a familiar?
I guess a guy in full plate will never have to worry about a climb check again.
>>43539096
Would an anon be so kind as to post the link to the proposed changes? I'm stuck at work.
>>43539383
If you let them throw you around it looks like you'll still take their 1d8+2 damage, unless the GM decides they can be gentle. Not too bad though.
>>43539398
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G7wNAhK6838KO7LtrV4UR2fZtw-pGkvslRuqHx_44v4/edit
My brother seems to think that Paizo released a psionics book, but I think he's crazy and he just thinking of 'ultimate psionics' which is third party.
Anyone have any idea what else he might be talking about?
inb4 psionics suck. I never liked psionics, but we were on the subject of mind flayers which I guess paizo never but in any books.
>>43539498
Occult Adventures.
For the record it's worse than the Ultimate Psionic system in pretty much every way and isn't even psionics, just the same old magic reflavored as 'mind energy'.
>>43539366
Go dread+psion uncarnate. Kill everything with a touch.
>>43539498
Occult Adventures, a book that's psionics in name only. It's a reskinned vancian casting system.
>>43539498
probably the occult book
which has a psychic in it
>>43539522
But it won't be the same touch, unless there's some rule about standard action touch attacks stacking i don't know about.
It's what i hate about all these "touch attack" class features. They don't stack and you can't full attack with them because they all specify "as a standard action".
>>43539498
>inb4 psionics suck.
/pfg/ actually likes Psionics, most people with a brain do.
>>43539498
Paizo can't put out Mind Flayers; they're WOTC licensed creations, and were never included in 3.5's Opening Gaming Content. Same with Beholders and a few others. Pathfinder can make knockoffs, but they can never reuse the originals or officially produce anything too similar.
Pathfinder released an "Occult Adventures" book not too long ago, featuring their take on "psionics". Occult Adventurers are a bit more "pulp", use powers oriented around spirits or otherworldly effects, and are typically fairly gimmick-based. They're really not much like 3.5's psionics, but they're pretty decent.
>>43539498
Uh... who is that third guy on the front of Ultimate Psionics?
I see Dark Tempest, Metamind and...?
Who's the dude in green? Presumably one of the backers, but what class does he represent?
What's his deal?
>>43539398
>>43539456
From last thread:
1) Needs clarification on whether the Chandler's healing ability is capped at half the target's remaining HP, similar to vitalist steal health, or whether slamming a 10hp creature with an 80 damage attack still heals you 40hp.
2) "The current Chandler exploit of the extra damage ability by carrying a psicrystal/familiar/pet kitten that shares your space can also be exploited by the Sworn Protector Warder.
Still not sure what a good fix would be, maybe something like 'this doesn't work if the ally shares your space' but that's limiting in other ways."
Unrelated to the changes but something that bugs me:
The lantern form's ability to grant bonuses to skill checks is kind of cheesable if you want to make any important skill checks with no time pressure: whenever you or an ally needs to make a check you can just start a fight, max illumination, then quickly make the check within the next minute. A bit of a petty thing to do but at an untyped bonus equal to the Chandler's wisdom, it's the sort of thing you wouldn't pass up if you really needed it.
>>43539203
Not RAW; its telekinesis affects only objects.
>>43539597
He's a psion.
>>43539546
I hate psionics, I always felt it was out of place and silly
>>43539709
... In what way? How is "magic powered by mental power" silly?
I mean, I guess I can understand it if you also think vancian magic is silly, being "a fairly arbitrary system of magic that's often powered by puns and practical jokes."
>>43539498
It's funny how you thought a PF community should react badly to the subject of psionics. It's widely considered excellent for castery material in 3.5 and DP's pathfinder forrays that's both more logical and balanced than core casters for the most part.
>>43539685
Yes, yes but who IS he. What's his story? His person?
I dunno, just 90% of the characters in the art in that book either appear next to a rule or fluff piece that they are clearly the art of or they appear multiple times and appear to tell a story, like stupid ugly guy with two crystals.
Stupid ugly guy with two crystals appears three times in the book. Once looking stupid and ugly, once in a metafaculty and once fighting deranged trepanner's.
I get him, i understand him.
Awesome looking green guy is kinda lacking in that.
>>43539709
Why? Some people train their bodies to do amazing things, some study the fabric of reality to warp, some train their minds to the point where they can influence the world around them, some pray to gods for their power. I really don't understand the whole "Psionics feels out of place" thing. The only legit complaint I've heard against Psionics fluff wise amounts to "I can't randomly take away their class features".
>>43539709
Like Mind Flayers and the other "out of place" explicitly psionics-using creatures found in the very first Monster Manual of 3.5 which essentially has to be the material you could use to call other things "out of place" to begin with? Those psionics?
>>43539760
We have to assume that characters who appear next to iconics in battle art as party members and never appear again just died in the fight.
It's too early to be as loud as QANON, have some magic weapons instead.
>>43539825
>Heart-piercing
GAAAEEE BOLLLGGG
I kinda want to hybridize psionics and vancians to see what the thing that comes out plays like.
One idea is wizardy spells per day tables to cast powers with, using a pool of points whose entire job is augmentation and applying metapsionics. Too bad the lack of damage scaling without augmentation on powers would make it fucked up.
>>43539882
That's the PF psychic and its fucking shitty.Vancian casting needs to fucking die and stay fucking dead.
Need some advice /pfg/. I'm gonna be playing a mysterious stranger gunslinger, my problem being that it'll be a while until I hit level 5 and get mysterious stranger to deal with misfires. What should I do until then to try avoid my gun exploding in my face?
>>43539902
No it doesn't, one of the best things about this system is the wide variety of ways classes work. BOTH should exist. If you make all classes access their shit the same way, you get 4e.
>>43539917
ugh, stranger's fortune, I mean.
>>43539825
>Quaking
Pretty cool.
>Sharding
Awesome flavor, but trumped by simply having a blinkback belt.
>Vampiric
'2d6 or less' 3 times a day is not worth a +2 bonus.
Most of the specific weapons are cool, not sure how to judge their price.
>>43539917
Have quick clear and don't try to shoot with a broken gun.
>>43539929
mysterious stranger trades quick clear for stranger's fortune, with the problem being as I said - you don't get it until level 5.
>>43539928
Here's the thing about sharding though, it says melee OR thrown weapons
>projectile fists
>>43539925
I realize you're probably just making a jab and don't want to start an edition war, but 4e's classes are a /lot/ more mechanically different in actual play than 3.x's are. The powers layout might lead you to think otherwise, but each's unique powers were just that, unique. The sameyness complaint holds no water.
>>43539782
This is part of what I try to address in my fiction pieces. Which I am still taking feedback on, because authors are nervous wrecks.
>>43539864
YEEEESSSSSS
Finally!
Also quaking, liberating and driving are nice.
I'm not sure about sharding, seems nice but I don't know...
>>43539941
Reminds me of 3.5 Soulknives with Reshape Mind Blade (Unarmed Strike). That was some fun shit, especially with Tashalatora involved. Combining the two worst classes ever made something beautiful.
>>43539977I'm mildly intered and will read it one dayeventuallysometime maybe
>>43539977
>This is part of what I try to address in my fiction pieces
What do you mean?
>>43540036
Offering examples of what psionics and their users look like in a fantasy setting.
>>43539941
You can also use it with two handed weapons.
>>43539882
In one of my home games, I actually wrote and playtested a system that hybridized psionics and vancian (wizard) casting. Essentially, you had a ritual book that worked like a wizard's spellbook and you had to prepare your spells in advance, but you didn't use spell slots, you used points like a psion and all the "chain" spells were condensed down to a single ritual. So once you knew summon monster, you knew it, and accessing the more powerful versions just required that you prepare the ritual with more points dedicated to it, using the standard "points capped by level" psionics dynamic. You could leave points unassigned and either use them to prepare additional rituals later in the day, or you could pick up feats that would give you options like "burning" unused points for healing or instant metamagic.
>>43539977
How would you address my friend's argument against psionics in a setting that has magic?
Friend: I treat the person as an extension of magic, so it is not innate at all. Psionics is really retarded when Magic is a thing
Me: For me, there is a difference between tapping into external energies and tapping into your own mind and soul.
Friend: If the setting involves magic, it is almost 100% likely that all beings are in some form magical - drawing magic from the environment. There is no latent magic, only magic you were born with
Me: And? That does not change what I said.
Friend: It does. You aren't tapping into your mind or soul. Friend: You are just tapping into magic normally. Its superfluous. Psionics have no purpose in D&D or fantasy in general if magic is a thing. Its the third banana to Divine and Arcane. But it only takes two to tango
Me: Now, hold on just a moment there. You are indeed drawing magic from your own mind and soul--I never said your mind and soul were not magical. I see this as different from tapping into external energies. For example, consider a wizard who calls forth a Fireball by drawing energy from the Elemental Plane of Fire.
Friend: Its the same magic. with just an added step. It is a superfluous difference. You oculd remove psionics/innate magic and lose nothing of value
Me: By that logic, arcane and divine should not be different either, because divine magic just taps into the arcane magic of others.
Friend: Arcane Magic: Covers magic formed from inherent mana of the plane, or from worlds beyond sight. Simple. No need to divide further than Divine and Arcane really. D&D has a good divide of magic forms.
Me: Under that logic, what makes divine magic worthy of its own category when it is nothing more than tapping into the arcane magic of other entities?
Friend: Becaues the method of usage and acquriing is completely different. It is different enough from how arcane magic works that it is worthy barely of its own slot
>>43540153
I would put my dick in Koishi
>>43540153
As far as fluff goes he's wrong. Iirc in PF magic is described as manipulating a "weave" of ambient magical energy and divine magic is just borrowing power from the god that grants you spells, your own power isn't actually involved.
I'm not sure what the exact fluff for psionics is, but usually it's stuff like your ego or whatever causing effects to manifest as opposed to some manipulation of magic elements.
>>43540153
Remind me when I get home. Phone posting is a bitch.
>>43540129
That sounds really interesting. You said you playtested, how did it work out?
>>43540153
Well, his take on arcane magic doesn't really jive with the fluff of the game. Wizard's are not born with magic. If they never pick up a book and study magical formulae, they are no more magical than the next commoner over. They study the laws of magic the way a real world scientist studies physics, and learn to harness those completely external forces with learned magical tools. Sorcerers share genetic or spiritual roots with creatures whose nature creates a natural conduit between themselves and those external forces, essentially allowing that external magic to freely flow into them.
Psionics is more like being able to create a fission or fusion reaction within your own mind and/or body, generating power and harnessing it towards your own intent. You don't need to know the laws of the universe since the laws of your own consciousness take precedence, nor do you need a channel to an outside force since you are capable of generating your own power.
>>43540153
Your friend has severe retardation and/or autism.
If he is your DM you have my pity.
If he isn't the DM his opinion is like a cows, it's moot. Convince the DM
>>43539743
>>43539782
It probably has most to do with the kind of people I've played with and the way they played psionics. Also I've always thought of magic more as an external force that casters evoke or ask from divine sources or pull from other things, but psionics is just 'my brain is so strong it has magic in it'.
>>43540153
Your friend is right. Even Divine/Arcane distinctions are barely worth the effort, and don't add to the game.
You know what magic bothers ME? Fucking BARDS.
It's the same kind of innate magic and method as sorcerers (and by extension their primitive cousins warlocks), but doesn't that imply that like half the people who are stage performers in a D&D world just happen to have innate magical bloodlines? Just how frisky are those dragons getting?
And aren't bards all about collecting knowledge and stories and shit? Wouldn't it have made loads more sense for their spellcasting to be learned, not innate, like a wizard?
>>43540153
I normally see it like this
Magic: Bruteforces/catalyzes a normally impossible chain of reactions into the desired effect (Like an endothermic reaction)
Psionics: Temporarily rewrites the existing law for that phenomenon to cause an effect (As if you changed the second law of thermodynamics for a reaction that wouldn't normaly happened then the law returned to normal immediately afterwards)
>>43540226
It actually went really well. It started as a way for me to gradually introduce psionics to some friends who were utterly convinced psionics was broken, so I wanted to help them see that things like the "spamming 300 1st level spells" fallacy just wasn't true. When they had to prepare those powers ahead of time, they started realizing that the lack of inherent scaling made that strategy really, really bad, because those augmented abilities were essentially single use cantrips.
It kind of ended up taking off into its own thing beyond the original intent as a two of my players really fell in love with it. We ended up realizing that it did a way better job of emulating most casting you see in fantasy media than either system did on its own, removing the "I don't have enough energy for magic missiles guys, all I can cast is this damn meteor swarm" silliness while keeping the idea of magic requiring study and preparation. It was a fun mix of structure and versatility. I ended up writing up a kind of psion/wizard hybrid class to play with it a bit more, replacing schools and disciplines with options to do things like disassemble a prepared ritual and free up the points, or expend a prepared ritual as an immediate action when you would take enough damage to drop you to 0 or lower hit points, healing damage equal to twice the points dedicated to the ritual.
>>43540351
Storytelling is the ultimate magic.
>>43540351
I think initially wizards were supposed to be unique and the only prepared arcane casters, but that quickly got tossed out ass more stuff was added.
Was it in AD&D that bards actually had to learn to be druids?
>>43540402
Yep. And had crazy stat requirements too
Level 14 wizard, is it worth picking up a crossbow at this level, or should I just buy myself a very nice staff?
>>43540351
Isn't that how it was for bards originally? Their casting was essentially indistinguishable from wizard casting beyond being able to replace some components with song and instrumentals. I think the innate magic thing was a 3.x modification.
>>43540413
Do you NEED a crossbow?
Otherwise get a staff
>>43540351
In 3.5 least, bards were noted as having learned magic. Their magic didn't come from their blood or anything, but was drawn from their heart and soul. If we took the fluff as is, then they basically used magic from incarnum powers, after learning how to weave it into their music from a bard college.
Actually, most casters in 3.5 had their own unique sources of magic, but we're abstracted into arcane and divine. I'm not sure about the pathfinder fluff though.
>>43540413
Always worth having. Get all sorts of fun ammo for it.
-acid
-fire
-grappling hooks
-smoke bombs
Ask your GM if he's let you craft some sort of bolt of spell storing or something?
>>43540425
My role in the party is less glass canon fireball shitting machine and more of a debuffing wizard, I run a lot of curses and stat-down abilities to help the rest of my group. With that in mind, I don't really have any boomstick spells and I figured maybe a heavy crossbow or something might be a nice counterpart for damage dealing while I debuff our foes
>>43540464
Because 1d10+enchantment bonus damage at level 14 is so worth it.
>>43540464
If you're playing competently you shouldn't need it. By level 14 you should basically be making sure your other party members are just coup de grace machines or hasted flying monstrosities.
>>43540491
See, that's why I asked. I was considering dropping the cash on a staff of curses since I have more than enough
>>43540464
Save the money you'd spend on a crossbow and invest in some rods rather than a staff
Still/Silent/Highten are all good
>>43540153
Psionics is a different method.
Magic is external. you use energy beyond you and using techniques and tools direct it towards the effect you want.
Psionics is internal. You use the energy produced by your own body, and with enough practice, like any other innate ability or skill (like walking), manage to get your body to produce the effects you want using.
This is not dissimilar to how the gods themselves operate, save that they feed on the combined energies of tens of thousands, and thus have magnitudes more power to wield in such a fashion.
Mechanically though?
Psionics is effectively what EVERY FUCKING SPELLCASTER is like even in D&D and pathfinder fiction, EVERYTHING EXCEPT JACK VANCE'S WORKS THEMSELVES. The mage's willpower, backed by some focusing/concentration techniques that may use tools or the like, allowing them to do whatever the fuck magic they fucking well please until they're too fucking exhausted to go on. You'll never read "Raistlin would've used magic to read these runes but since he'd already used comprehend languages this morning and didn't memorize a second copy, he's shit out of luck and died in a pit trap". They magic shit up all day if it's a low enough level compared to what they can do at their best.
Fluffwise? It's not sci-fi, just some of the nomenclature has become associated with that. This shit comes from ancient epics WAAAAAAY before any modern writer's great grandparents were ever imagined. Shit like psionic warriors and psions comes from the Mahabharata and the like. Enlightenement, and the abilities that came with it.
>>43539882
>>43540129
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm
>>43540557
That's not a hybrid system you nog.
Even Jack Vance's work is more like the psionic/hybrid system mentioned above than the 3.x/PF slot version. In Vance's novels, more powerful spells took up more mental space. It would be like having 100 points worth of space in your brain, and a really powerful spell might take up anywhere from 25-90 of those points.
>>43540153
That is retarded and his whole argument feels like 'I need a way that sounds logical to argue against psionics simply because I don't like the feel of them'.
There is nothing he's said about Divine magic that doesn't in turn justify psionics.
This won't convince him, of course, and nothing that people can say in this thread will, because you can't reason a person out of a position that reason didn't get them into.
>>43540573
Yeah, it doesn't sound like
>>43540129
>you had a ritual book that worked like a wizard's spellbook and you had to prepare your spells in advance, but you didn't use spell slots, you used points like a psion
at all.
>>43540606
It really doesn't.
>>43540583
Yeah, it's as 2e's except with far nastier fizzling.
It was dangerous as fuck. The reason for limited spells per day was that all of them save cantraps were longass rituals, with rather incredible effects though. To be 'useful' in the field, you'd basically get it to 99.5% complete and pause it like that.
Get more than your brain can handle, and everything fucking fries.
>>43540351
I would like bards way more if they had magic powers but not actually magic casting.
Since my current game is falling apart due to flaky players, I'm thinking about starting a new game with the players who actually showed up on a regular basis. Here's the adventure I'm thinking of resurrecting for the new game:
>PC's arrive in small farmtown near the mountains. Farmtown got taken over by hobgoblins ~6 months ago, so anyone who's stronger than a lvl 3 commoner got killed. Farmers need help badly, as they're basically slaves. Some hobgoblins are still stationed in town, using the town hall as their base.
>The rest of the hobgoblins are stationed a big semi-ruined castle that guards the only pass through the mountains (with a few other hobs stationed at the other nearby villages). Hobgoblins took over the mostly-empty castle to make it their own home.
>PC's can ally with the hobgoblins (likely by usurping the leader), drive the hobs off, or kill them all. How they handle the problem will shape how others perceive them from hear on out.
>PC's are now in charge of their own semi-ruined castle, becoming the strongest force in the immediate area. The villagers will be grateful and will likely listen to the PC's if instructed to help with castle repairs, etc. PC's are essentially lords of the area, since it was a backwater that no one really took interest in.
>The rest of the adventure include clearing out the undead from the castle dungeons, repairing the castle, opening up the mountain pass to bring in trade, ruling over the people in the villages, entertaining guests, defending their castle against monsters, etc.
>I'll probably use a lot of the material for running a base/organization from Ultimate Campaign.
Thoughts? Ideas? Critiques?
>>43540725
For a game like that I would be very careful of who you get to play. Player that expet to be dungeon crawling or murderhoboing or just protecting the innocent that are suddenly put in a position of power and decision making may either find it jarring or boring and lose interest.
You might considering, instead of having the players on top, putting your players in an empowering position where they can make important political decisions if they choose, or they can go where they are lead and do as they are told. Maybe close friends/ right hands of the new rulers, or maybe pulling the strings from behind the scenes.
>>43540725
This.... this i could get behind. Would certainly be intrested if you're running online and in my timezone
>>43540635
Then tell me how spell point from UA work, because apparently I've been reading it wrong all that time.
>>43540901
Spontaneous casters are just psions with spells replacing powers.
Prepared casters are the same, casting spontaneously, but choosing which spells they know (and can continuously spontaneously cast) at the start of the day.
That's spell points. Not what was being discussed.
>>43540725
I'm sort of looking for a player spot in any campaign running in a time I can play atm. GM duties are burning me out a little.
And the large-scale stuff is something I've very much wanted to try for a while.
>>43540725
Will the players be able to play matchmaker with the villagers?"I trust you now know that this place has become something of great significance. A community to serve as an example of what this would-be nation could become."
>>43541146
>Will the players be able to play matchmaker with the villagers?
It really depends on the DM, anon-kun.
Sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes it's not.
>>43540725
Other ideas for the Castle Crashers game:
>Bandits have taken over a decent chunk of the mountain pass. Once they learn the hobgoblins have been defeated/taken over by the PC's, the bandits will actually come to the castle as "explorers" who want to help establish the trade route (and gouge everyone on tolls to get through).
>One of the other nearby villages is in a swamp. Its a much more insulated place that feels very Lovecraftian and that's what I'll steer the players to assuming. The swampers are actually more like friendly Golgari who stay in the safe swamp because they know outsiders assume its worthless land.
>The undead in the castle dungeons are "lead" by a ghost (?) who has come to worship Zon-Kuthon. Lots of haunts, spiked chains, and darkness.
>>43540816
I'll give everyone the heads up about where the campaign trail leads. PC's will all have to be positively inclined towards ruling a castle, which I'll make sure happens during character creation.
>>43540840
>>43541036
Likely in-person, I've only used Roll20 as a player and have no idea how to make something like this work online. Thank you and sorry!
>>43541146
>>43541250
If they choose to, then yes!
>>43541294
Have any notable villagers written up already, or churning in that DM head of yours?
>>43541274
It's fine, m8.
Hell knows I'd give a limb for a good RL table, but that's not going to happen before I get wizard powers to make one.
>>43540464
Something you could do do for fun (not sure if it works) is enchant it with fireball. That way you lift it up, aim, and blow someone away
>>43541372
But that's boring. Why do that when you can
>Hand Crossbow enchanted with Lightning Bolt
>Raise the weapon and fire it at enemy
>It plinks off the enemy warrior's armor
>"Really? That's the best you can-"
>Line of zappy deathness cuts him off
>>43541357
There's a half-orc ranger/former river raider who came to the village to live the easy life (after stealing the loot from his former raiders). The baker's daughter thinks he's handsome and funny, though most others in town think he's a lazy drunk.
Pathfinder huh? How about you find a path... to an actual good game to play?! Hahahaha!
>>43541420
That would be fun too. Ray spells could be another attempt as well
>>43541420
Then again, Occult Bestiary gave us the Lightning Gun which is literally this with aliens and no fun parts.
>>43541438
Are there anywaifubait/husbando NPCs?
>>43541641
That's up to the players.
How does Magus even work if I provoke AoOs for doing anything I was supposed to do? Is the class actually just for playing a wizard with bard progression?
>>43541735
Have you heard about Concentration checks?
>>43540512
>Fluffwise? It's not sci-fi, just some of the nomenclature has become associated with that. This shit comes from ancient epics WAAAAAAY before any modern writer's great grandparents were ever imagined. Shit like psionic warriors and psions comes from the Mahabharata and the like. Enlightenement, and the abilities that came with it.
How are those not just maguses and wizards?
>>43541735
5 ft steps are your friend. Attack, step back, cast a spell.
>>43541735
Take advantage of strategic 5-foot-steps, concentration checks, and allies burning enemy AoOs. Also take combat casting.
>>43541850
>How are those not just maguses and wizards?
There is nothing anywhere in any mithology that even resembles vancian magic.
Or in fantasy works not D&D inspired.
>>43541850
When did Celts memorize spells?
Question for GMs:
How do you deal with your players curcumventing the shape and structure of your dungeons and encounters? Do your players try to go through/over walls and avoid challenges? Do you let them or do you put a stop to it?
What're people's thoughts on Bestiary 5?
>>43542048
You don't put a stop to it, you just let them and then store away the content they skipped to put someplace else in an ideally more challenging layout.
>>43542097
Pretty nice desu senpai. The art is pretty good and most of the monsters are pretty interesting.
>>43542048
The point of encounter is not to STOP players (unless playing sandbox and they somehow got into high-level zone despite few warnings) but to TRY to stop them and give them a feeling of effort used to overcome it. It also gives you information on their abilities you should have got from their sheets before the game.
>>43542097
Shapeshifting loli slimes.
>>43542123
>desu senpai
Is there a code that makes those who fall prey to the wordfilter not see it?
>>43542048
Let it happen, as long as they legitimately have the tools. Mix in some consequences from time to time though.
For example, I had a party that loves to pick up things like an adamantine sledgehammer for busting down doors or even dungeon walls. I accepted that this was how they wanted to deal with the dungeons, but it did open up some new avenues of play and challeng. Knowledge (Engineering) became pretty important to recognize load-bearing structures, something the group only figured out after two cave ins. There were also a couple dungeons that were bigger inside than out, and knocking down a wall ran the risk of punching a hole into the Astral plane if that wall turned out to be part of the conjured material extending the dungeon into extra-dimensional space.
The number one thing you shouldn't do - don't railroad the party with "because I said so" fiat. You made the dungeon, but they get to decide how to explore it.
>>43542127
>should have got from their sheets before the game
Not him but does anyone actually do this for an in-person campaign? It seems so police-ey.
>>43542097
This poor guy triggered a whole lot of people when it was first announced.
>>43542165
But senpai, the wordfilter is great.
If Jap-Moot gave us back roody-poo it would be perfect.
>>43542199
Why though? I see nothing trigger worthy in its entry. It's just the "uplift primitive society" kind of alien.
>>43542097
does someone have a link?
>>43540153
>It is different enough from how arcane magic works that it is worthy barely of its own slot
>???
>>43542199
What, is it an alien or something? 'Caaaaaause that was a big part of old old school D&D, wasn't it?
>>43542223
>Why though?
It's an Annunaki, which gets a lot of social justice types on the internet angry because the Annunaki are a symbol of cultural appropriation and discrimination, specifically the classic "this ancient non-western culture has advanced engineering, aliens must have done it" which is something the Annunaki does (I imagine they do that in the Bestiary?)
Price herself had to go on a blog called "Roll for Problematic" and defend the Annunaki, it was pretty rough.
Here's the accusation if you needed to see it:
>oh boy, doubling down on the “ancient brown cultures couldn’t possibly accomplish things, so aliens must’ve done it” trope. the good old “it’s fantasy so we can wallpaper over the mythology of egyptians and arabs and south asians and native cultures with some boring white conspiracy theories” school of worldbuilding.
>between this and the new occult bent, i’m starting to lose steam on seeing other non-euro parts of the setting. are we actually going to see new cultures, or just people of color through the same shitty weird-ass racist lovecraftian/horror lens?
>and we’re getting this before we get anything significant on sub-saharan Africa/central Garund, which is right next to the main setting? we’ve gotten other continents, other planets, and 20th-century russia, but we can’t get a book for the black people living just off the south edge of the map that comes with all the setting books?
>>43542197
Is there anyone that doesn't? If you don't know what spells the wizard has prepped he has the right to sidestep your entire dungeon and possibly campaing.
Seriously even if the group is all martials you need to figure out what they can deal with and what will make a full TPK, like can they deal with DR? With Incorporeal? Do they have potions or wands? Do they have someone who can use said wands?
>>43542269
>What, is it an alien or something?
See >>43542271
The race is a largely benevolent civilization that focuses on gently uplifting primitives through the sharing of construction, metallurgy and agriculture.
Some people accuse this of being fantastically racist because most people pull the "Aliens did it" card when the ancient civilization isn't European (watch an episode of Ancient Aliens and you'll see this in real-time.)
>>43542269
>>43541850
None of them used spell books.
None had familiars
None had arcane bonds
None prepared spells ahead of time
>>43542097
The fact that I can make a slime daughteru that insists it's related to me makes me smile so much.Maybe I can combine it with the Gravity Slime Master, create a slime family.
>>43542279
Very much this desu. Heck, I regularly lend a helping hand in molding my parties together because better characters mean I can throw more fun stuff at them, and the fact that I'm better at minmaxing than most of them.
GM duty is boring when you need to hold back.
>>43542329
There is a humanoid slime 3pp race on the srd. It even has a mediocre prc class, if any of that interest you.
>>43542271
>Roll for Problematic
I refuse to believe this is an actual thing. My hope in humanity prevents me from believing in this.
Please tell me you're lying anon. Please?
>>43542403
Seriously? Got a link, I want to take a look at that.
>>43542324
>The Anunnaki like to manipulate civilizations like they're playing a game of Sim Civilization
>They freak out and leave if you know they're Annunaki
These guys are huge fucking nerds, I love them.
>>43542279
Do you design your encounters like that? If you only give teh palyers shit you are sure they can absolutely handle, I feel like it ruins some of the fun. I'd rather throw whatever at them and let them figure it out if they don't have the resources totally ready to begin with.
Werewolfs and noone brought silver? Better go looking for silver while you avoid it or maybe cause a cavein on it. Ghost appear and no one has ethreal magic or anything? I guess someone better solve their problems so they can pas over.
>>43542423
>native noticed me
>trying to stumble back to mothership
>spaghetti leaking out of my power armor as I run
>hear natives laughing at me because they think my cranium looks like a phallus and are calling me a "cum-skin"
>feelsbadman.silentimage
>>43542423
Without the Lantern of Civilization they're powerless, just steal that and beat them up.
>>43542417
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/squole
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-prestige-classes/alluria-publishing/slime-lord
They are supposed to go into druid or other Wis based class with summon nature ally, because they can grab a feat to increase their blindsight by their [Wis mod]X5. Yeah, I said blindsight, you have no eyes.
As long as we're in the realm of 3pp, you might be interested in this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-3rd-party-publishers/kobold-press---bloodlines/ooze
The capstone of which is split.The only reason I know all this: I need to create a npc slime demigod.
hey
hey guys
what ifAroden is actually a Annunaki?
>>43542594
It wouldn't change the piss people are making I guess? Because people are dumb?
>>43542324
These guys are pretty nifty.
>>43542594
That would meanit took alien intervention for Iomedae to become a deity.
>>43542594
...That actually makes a surprising ammount of sense. He didn't die, he just beamed back to the motheeship.
>>43542594
>mfw I can't actually come up with a firm rebuttal for this
>>43542279
I prefer to construct problems in ways that promote multiple approaches and don't fall apart if they don't pick any planned one. It's not hard once you get into the swing of doing that, and I feel like it spoils some of the fun if challenges are tailored to them. A villain known to utilize spies, scrying, etc, or a past encounter or someone from a player's history, can tailor challenges for the player in a logical fashion, and this can be blocked, manipulated or exploited by clever play.
A WORLD doing that is just kind of shit.
>>43542670
>>43542687
>>43542695
>Average Anunnaki is CR 18/Mythic 7
>Aroden was confirmed to be only partially Mythic for most of his existence
>He only became a true god at the very end
>Rogue Anunnaki who try to pull too much shit get sent home to think about what they've done
>>43542594
>>43542632
>>43542670
>>43542695
>>43542777
So the Anunnaki Aroden just took Divine Source multiple times?
>>43542777
Trips confirmed for truth. Avistanis are the uplifted nignogs and Based Jatembe is the one who truly brought back civilization to the world through human will and power alone.
Quick, someone tell the Paizotards this so they can stop bitching now that they have "justice" against whitey and that the brownies are the ones who are with the super civilization
>>43542562
Except it only keys off two of their abilities and they still have a bunch of spell-likes and stuff?
>>43542831
Almost, taking Divine Source three times gives you 4 Domains and 6 Sub-Domains, your typical god like Abadar or Desna has 5 Domains and 6 Sub-Domains.
I haven't looked at PF in years, is there stuff like Factotum or Chameleon yet?
>>43542938
Actually looking at Aroden he only has 5 domains in total.
Law, Protection, Knowledge, Glory and Community.
>>43542905
The Primal Chisel is the only thing they've got that's explicitly offensive, everything else pertains to movement, defense or turning your character into a filthy ape.
>>43542965
>stuff like factotum
Bard... always was? Even 3.5 bard was very similar in all the right concepts (except severe action abuse).
>>43542965
Dilettante, but that's 3pp and not on the SRD
>>43542324
>>43542199
I don't know about you guys, but the thing I'm interested in most about these guys is getting my hands on those energy wings.
Fly 60 (Good) is nothing to sneeze at, either.
>>43542971
I would call devolution pretty offensive and disabling really... especially cause they would probably be able to just teleport away after.
>>43542965
>>43542990
So what exactly did the Factotum do I havent read the class in a while?
If I remember right the Investigator is a better Factotum
>>43543127
They could spend resources to copy other class abilities for a short while.
>>43543127
>>43543151
They also had "Class Skills: All" as a thing.
>>43543172
Sounds like Investigator to me, it has all the good class skils.
>>43543151
Ok no, the Investigator can't do that. The closest I've seen is the Mnemonic from Amora Games that can copy any (ex) class features and feats.
>>43543127
>http://dndtools.pw/classes/factotum/
There was also a Chameleon prestige class
>http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Chameleon_%283.5e_Class%29
>>43542324
Guys.
Imagine a campaign where all the players are Anunnaki.Race Builder rules come into play as RP becomes in-campaign "currency" to buy "upgrades" to the species you're interested in uplifting.
>>43543250
it becomes spore/sims
>All this crazy conspiracy theories
Now I want to play a crazy dude believing all rulers are actually Reptiloids and Aroden was an actually an Anunnaki.And he is right
>>43543127
An unparalleled skillmonkey who got a set of points to spend every encounter, mostly on adding Int to nearly everything (making them a fairly SAD-intelligence melee class), or healing a certain number of times.
They were also a rare partial caster that didn't actually use a big chart of numbers; they had a highest spell level and a number of spells they could cast in a day, and they could only have one spell of their highest level (reached up to 7) prepared at a time; they had very few spells per day even compared to a bard, but went higher than them and had the full Sorc/Wiz list. I liked that, it was unusual but logical for a partial caster.
>>43542965
the closest thing I know of (from the description of stealing class features wholesale) is something that has the consuming template or is a taskshaper (3pp)
>>43543172
Much less valuable in PF where any class can put ranks in any skill at a 1:1 ratio.
>>43543214
The mnemonic is probably better than the factotum on the martial front, but weaker magically. A guy ran a mnemonic in a PBP I was in, and from what I saw it's more like Taskmaster from Marvel Comics, while factotum could literally fake a prayer or spell so well the deity/universe listened.
Mnemonic is from the same book the Battle Lord is in, right? Anything else worthwhile in there?
>>43543214
Not all the good class skills.
All the class skills.
Control Shape? Iaijutsu Focus? Martial Lore? Things you'll never see outside of the book they were printed in? Yeah, factotum couldn't take cross-class ranks in those, because they took full ranks instead.
>>43543290
>even compared to a ranger or paladin
ftfy
>>43543288
>Reptiloids
There are even actual reptiloids in the same book if you missed them >>43537738
>>43543331
Yeah, Mystic is like a super Qingong Monk. Several powerful support classes, not the Pauper though, a very simple class called the Survivor.
The book has 14 classes and I have not regretted purchasing the hardcover at all. The PDF is a steal and a expansion pdf is about to come out with archetypes and feats/talents for all the classes.
Where were you when Pathfinder received its GUCK/BoEF/Nymphology equivalent, Fappfinder?
https://mega.nz/#!tR5GDZqA!XDeJNg37kBUkt0BscEIKXHu4lwtOMH2hIwVWiyMWERQ
>>43543425
I know! It's great!
Now I only need proof that Cure spells cause autism....
>>43543353
In Pathfinder there are no cross class skills and I've only ever seen 2 skills added by 3PP, but they also came with traits to add said skill to your class skills.
>>43543528
just pointing out an inaccuracy, yo
>>43543541
For 3.5. It's a non-sequitor for Pathfinder. Class skills:all means very little in Pathfinder.
>All those fey that directly interact with people
I want there to be druids that live in cities and other communities and help the local fey population cope with. That sounds amazing.
It helps that Urban Druid is actually really solid if you were going for domains over an animal companion anyways.
>>43542965
From the people who brought up Spheres of Power, this single class book is about $2. The rest of it is notes on application, balancing fixes and tweaks, and three pages of example characters, including a freaky looking orc.
>>43543578
3.5 is the topic of discussion when factotum's being discussed, so I don't know what you're trying to achieve. I play Pathfinder, budy
>>43543270
Would that really be such a bad thing, though?
>>43543604
The topic of discussion was "what Pathfinder class is similar to Factotum?" So the topic of discussion is what classes in the Pathfinder system are similar to the Factotum. 3.5 unique features mean very little.
>>43543593
Don't forget there are also Vilderavn who kill and replace people and as such also directly interact with other beings.
Not all fey with interest in humanity have good intentions.
>>43543615
true that
>>43543648
fair enough. I still maintain that I was pointing out an inaccuracy. this is a helpful thing to do if anyone reading this thread should choose to play 3.5
>>43543663
I actually want one of those creatures to be a nemesis for one of my future characters. They sound like an awesome end point for a personal arc for a player that knows what they are. Could even get into the politics of a fey court if the Vilderavn is working under an Erlking or something.
>>43543733
Vilderavn look pretty tough with their hexes and constant haste, true seeing and freedome of movement and their pretty good defensive abilities.
Their falchions also look pretty mean.Stats for those who haven't seen them yet
>>43543854
As the guy who put together the linnorm soloing build, that's not discouragement; that's a challenge.
You have to admit, they'd make a hell of a final boss for a character arc.
>>43543900
Hell yes, those guys give me a heavy Artorias vibe. This subtle "Oh fuck" feeling you know?
One would make a hell of an engaging duel bossfight.
>>43540153
So, I'm gonna preface this with "Even as far back as 1e, magic has been shittily defined in D&D and its legacy systems." If we can accept this premise, let's move on.
Your friend seems to believe psionics is redundant. And, y'know, to an extent that isn't wrong, but WelcometoD20.exe. Arcane & Divine are both redundant to each other in many cases; certainly I could flavor all casters as one or the other and have changed nothing important. I'm not sure why that's an unacceptable state of affairs. I mean, does savat need to not exist because karate happened first? Mechanically, it's pretty damn distinct, and even if you don't use the psionic fluff (which, yeah, sure, you do you), there's plenty of reason to explore it anyway.
Arcane magic shapes power. Divine magic channels power. Psionics /express/ power; you /are/, so you /do/. Even soulknives, arguably the least psionic psionic class, are highly personalized and individualized.
I suspect I haven't really resolved this much but I also haven't had more coffee yet (I have a problem guys, I have a fucking problem). Feel free to engage further, or to bring your friend forth. Would love to chat. Psionic fluff & its role in a campaign world is something I'm kinda personally invested in.
And/or make him read the fiction.I NEED FEEDBACK TO LIIIIIIIVE.
>>43539939
If the game has it allowed, get advanced firearms asap
>>43543981
Speaking of feedback, how are you guys storing feedback to influence Path of War Errata?
>>43540153
>>43543981
>>43544046
We've got an online errata file, searchable chat archives and long memories.
>>43544089
So you don't have a document containing links to posts containing informative feedback?
>>43543945
I'm looking at it, and you need to have multiple ways to consistently beat Saving Throw rolls to be capable of defeating a Vilderavn solo. they just have waaaaay too many ways to completely hose you if you don't. And once you get past all that, he's still an incredibly strong warrior with an enormous armor class that will beat the everloving shit out of you if you give him an opening.
It's awesome, and I want them in every game.
>>43544123
Not at the moment, we mostly gank the feedback, translate it into ideas for changes and then store /those/. Vhy?
Hey there, looking for advice on a character build/concept.
My group has recently started an Evil campaign, and this is the first time we've done so. I decided for this story I'd try to create Gambit, the 'Ragin Cajun' as closely as I can. I've decided to go Ifrit, and split my levels between Sorcerer and Ninja.
The way I see it; Arcane Strike> Deadly Dealer. Okay now I can throw cards.
Arcane Strike + Ki charge is pretty much charging them up and making them explode right?
Ninja is going to let me do all the acrobatic and thievery shit Gambit was all about.
And then the cherry on top? The Infernal Sorc Bloodline gives my charm spells extra DC and gives me access to free improved Disarm, so I can use my bo staff to knock shit out of people's hands when they get too close to me.
What do you think? Do I have Gambit's abilities down? What do I need from each class to make this really work? Feat Suggestions?
>>43544123
Don't be such a queer.
>>43544138
He wants validation on one or two shitty posts he made complaining about redundant issues, most likely.
>>43544131
Yeah they are strong at debuffing, defense and offense.
And just plain cool.
>>43544187
I'd much rather assume good faith. Also keep in mind that I haven't really done errata on this scale; I'm open to advice. The team is too.
>>43543854
I want one.
>>43544177
>Sorc and Rogue
OR, you could do the smart thing, and instead go Magus with the Staff Magus and the Card Caster archetypes.
>>43544138
Oh ok, that's better actually. I was worried you guys were just putting off working on the errata until after Expanded comes out.
>>43544258
You might work for one without knowing. They are well suited for infiltration too.
>>43544315
Yeah. We're not working very hard on it in all honesty, because we want Expanded dead and done, but the data is being collected continually and it's at the back of all of our minds. We just need some time to drink heavily, curse the world and bemoan the black fate that has brought this upon our lives before we do the errata.
>>43544337
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that data is being collected for the errata. Anything for Dragon Fury PrC?
>>43544378
Don't remember off the top of my head. We're focused on the discs ATM because...well, ya'll know because why.
>>43543854
That thing is one title away from being a Dark Souls boss.
The art is amazing, the concept is amazing, fucking everything about it is amazing.
>>43544539
He already is a Dark Souls boss.
>>43544567
How long until we can make every Dark Souls boss in Pathfinder?
>>43544567
Well if you give a Vilderavn some levels in Harbinger he should be pretty close to Artorias.
>>43544389
Sounds good! Yeah some maneuvers still need a little work using the last release as a reference point (Minute Hand why)
>>43544567
They both use scary heavy armor and have swords. How else are they remotely similar? I admit I don't play the Souls series but I don't remember Artorias being a bird fairy.
>>43544666
>>43544389
Are you guys still considering an initiating creature template? It'd be a lot kinder to GMs than requiring them to add on class levels or rewrite NPCs entirely as another class.
>>43544666
One good way to do that is to replace its hexing ability with Harbinger initiating as an 18th level Harbinger. That may be a bit powerful, though, so possibly only use a single discipline for that (maybe Cursed Razor)
>>43544763
Cursed Razor or Black Seraph I'd say.
>>43544785
Hmm... Cursed Razor is more about Debuffs than Black Seraph, so that fits in better with the theme of what it's replacing.
>>43544760
does it get feats? replace some of them with Martial Training. quick hack to make it work.
>>43544760
Not really, but I am working on a short list of "suggested" maneuvers that'll make encounters more interesting. Just giving a creature 3-5 maneuvers would cover 90% of encounters.
This is more homebrew than official DSP though.
>>43544804
>cone of birds
>not the perfect maneuver for the bird knight to spam
>>43544804
Well Black Seraph has a lot of moves that fit into the raven theme though and Vilderavns have pretty good Intimidate
>>43544831
>>43544849
Yeah, but the Hexes are shit like Evil Eye, Misfortune, Dire Prophecy, and Agony. These are debuffs, not direct damage shit. Black Seraph is primarily built for churning out damage.
>>43544088
Kanka when?Basically you use spell energy as a form of "ki doping" to supercharge your body. It's difficult to use, but anyone who knows the basics of both magic and psionics can learn it.
>>43544666
Really?
He's all dark and cursed, but I don't think he has any other similarities with a Harbinger.
And he doesn't really curse you, he just smacks your shit up.
>>43544823
Ahh that's a shame, guess Errantx changed his mind on that one. Pretty sure a template would actually take up less page space than what you just described.
>>43544865
Well I guess one could make an alternate Vilderavn from something like Vilderavn General which replaces the hexes with either Cursed Razor or Black Seraph. That way everyone is happy.
>>43544916
I'm the monster guy.
>>43544905
So maybe Warlord is better?
>>43544964
Back on the old forums Errantx said a template to quickly modify creatures and NPCs with class levels into initiators was a good idea and that he'd like to add it to Expanded if it had page space.
I guess it was taken off the to-do list at some point.
One of my players wants to be a shitty dragon, does anyone have this book?
>>43544969
He's not really supporty either. He's entirely 'smash your shit' by the time we get to him. To nail down what Artorias HIMSELF was, we'd have to see him operate before the Abyss fucked him sideways.
What we know, is that he used both a greatsword and a shield, and had an animal companion. It seems though, that the ability to use a greatsword onehanded is pretty common in Dark Souls, so no need to worry about how he was doing that.Part of me says Castellan Cavalier.
>>43545094
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/rite-publishing/dragon-taninim
>>43545118
Castellan Cavalier sounds right for pre Abyss fuckery.
>>43544872
Or instead fix the Ki system already in Pathfinder
>>43545084
Expanded ran out of page space.
>>43545186
Ki itself isn't broken. What costs Ki is broken due to it assuming Ki is a large resource pool.
>>43545149
Oh dang, is this all just on the pfsrd? Dank.
>>43545219
Not all of it.
>>43545199
That's a huge shame. That would have worked really well as a tool to help modify the campaign world to work with initiators. Also would have been useful for people running adventure paths and other prewritten adventures.
Also is Chris doing ok? Haven't seen him in a really long time.
>>43545272
What a shame.
He'll make do with this for now until he puts down the shekels for the book I suppose.
>>43545186
Ki = Psionics here
So we are doing a game were we choose 2 CLASSES and pick the best features such as save from each one HOWEVER they cannot be two classes with the same "primary stat".
Would you guys think a Swashbuckler and a Bard would be vetoed? Since a Swashbuckler's fancy abilities and a Bard's casting are based of CHA.
>>43545299
Just a note that the racial class is pretty much dragon hit dice and non-spellcasting dragon special qualities picked from lists; and further, you pick a type of true dragon to emulate when you enter it and have a compulsion to act in a manner similar to that dragon. there's an archetype for pre-ARG classes that trade class features for a limited version of that draconic progression. I suggest letting that be taken as soon as he settles in with the book.
>>43539314
AND they have blindsense and can do combat manuevers at a distance using your class level as BAB. Best familiar ever.
>>43545184
So who else we got?
Hawkeye Gough? Wasn't there some class that got touch attacks with bows?
Ciaran? Could just be an Unchained Rogue.
Ornstein? Elementalist, maybe? If there was a Lightning archetype, I'd say that, but that's an annoying oversight.Who picks wind over Lightning to make an archetype from, seriously.
Solaire though? Fighter.With mythic ranks.
>>43545470
Maybe Ciaran as Slayer? Rogue is so unfancy you know?
>>43545605
Eh, either or.
The immediate visual difference between them is pretty slim, so I can see that too.
