Both in terms of fluff and tabletop rules, who is the biggest badass in the Imperium?
>>43465571
The Red Wake.
>>43465628
I see what you did there
>>43465589
that guys a chump compared to Asterion Moloc tho
>>43465731
Is he even statted?>being a fan of the High Lord's bottom bitch
>>43465571
Either one of the First Founding Chapter Masters, the Grey Knight CM, or the Head of the Custodes.That's not counting the living Primarchs, of which The Lion remains unstatted, but was strong enough to knock out Russ with a single punch
Or Yarrick, at least in a couple of editions. He's a few steps away from Warboss.
Thought Logan Grimnar was stated as the most powerful warrior
>>43465571
Who can live against him in a challenge? 40k Abbadon and primarchs, the rest are weak ass bitches waiting to get their shit kicked in.
>>43465571
Biggest badass? Most powerful warrior? Most famous? Most feared by their enemies? Won the most territory for the Imperium?
You gotta specify, because in the above order:
Inquisitor Eisenhorn
Not sure, I assume some spess muhreen
Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium
Commissar Yarrick
Warmaster Macharius
Also, if we are counting him, Big E wins all these categories.
>>43465571
Canonically Marneus Calgar.
>Mankind boasts many heroes, men of purpose and dedication without whom the Imperium would crumble. Yet even among their ranks there is a man whose nobility overshadows all others. His name is Marneus Calgar, Master of the Ultramarines and Lord of Macragge. He leads the Ultramarines in battle if and when he is required, his mere presence inspiring his troops to great acts of valour and courage. It is here, in the eye of the storm, that Marneus Calgar's titanic might is truly realised. He is a God of War and he will crush all before him, for none can stand before the greatest warrior of the Imperium.
>>43467352
Calgar only gets that spot because Draigo isn't really "in the Imperium" anymore and nobody knows about the GKs.
>>43467372
Please go fabricate your excuses elsewhere.
Black and white Calgar is the greatest.
>>43465571
the emperor??????????????????????????????????
>>43467440
The only non-heretic in this thread so far.
Cain, Yarrick, Loken, Ragnar Blackmane (I mean, he got his shit done at age of 50 he achieved everything - well, until current CM of Space Puppies dies)
>>43467403
Calgar got wrecked round 1 by Swarmlord.
Draigo got a heart-gutting Mortal Kombat fatality knock out round 1 with a Daemon Primarch.
>>43467440
>>43467485
Emperor has no tabletop rules. He also lost all his combat capability when he sat on the throne. The Imperium did not exist when the Primarchs were all rolling around and the Emperor could fight.
>>43467545
>Calgar got wrecked round 1 by Swarmlord.
Swarmlord and the swarm.
>Draigo got a heart-gutting Mortal Kombat fatality knock out round 1 with a Daemon Primarch.
All that proves is that Mortarion is weaker than the Swarmlord.
Because Calgar is outright known as the strongest.
>>43465731
>Got killed multiple times
>Pushed into void like a pussy by necron.
>>43467579
>as the strongest
In M41. In the Imperium. In the Materium.
It doesn't even say he is the "strongest", nor does it say he's the greatest in the galaxy or to have ever been. If he was that great he wouldn't have lost 75% of his body and had to replace them.
>>43467579
>Because Calgar is outright known as the strongest.
This. This is the Canon answer but people will never accept it because he is an Ultra.
Like how people won't accept that Ultras are the best chapter. This is stated multiple times and is canon. Doesn't mean they have to be your favorite, but they ARE the best chapter.
>>43467651
They are smarty-pants autists (but not as autist as Dark Autists) and are reason why nids came to galaxy. Fuck em.
>>43467626
>In M41. In the Imperium. In the Materium.
Nope, just that he is "of the Imperium" anything you attach is not said.
>It doesn't even say he is the "strongest"
It says the greatest warrior. What more do you want?
>nor does it say he's the greatest in the galaxy or to have ever been.
What do you want out of this discussion exactly? OP asked for the biggest bad ass in the Imperium and that is 1000% stated with no ambiguity to be Marneus Calgar.
I don't care if you have an axe to grind with the Ultramarines, I'm just giving the asked for fluff.
>>43467651
>Because Calgar is outright known as the strongest example of Mary Sue.
>This. This is the Canon answer but people will never accept it because he is an Ultra.
>Like how people won't accept that Ultras are the biggest Mary Sues. This is stated multiple times and is canon. Doesn't mean they have to be your favorite, but they ARE the biggest Mary Sues.
FTFY
>>43467695
>It says the greatest warrior. What more do you want?
The greatest primarch was not the strongest primarch. Primarchs are all warriors.
>>43467693
Still the best
>>43467695
>tabletop rules
Calgar was also passed over for supreme commander of imperium in some of the major campaigns
>>43467733
Primarch encompasses more than warrior.
Warrior is very specific and Calgar is the greatest.
Calgar is also numerous times called a God.
>>43467764
>>tabletop rules
Where?
>Calgar was also passed over for supreme commander of imperium in some of the major campaigns
He gave command to Dante during the Second War of Armageddon due to Dante's seniority.
>>43465589
This mother fucker right here.
>>43467821
>Where?
It's in the fucking OP? He says fluff AND tabletop rules, not fluff, or fluff OR rules.
>>43467730
>SM chapter works as intended by the Emperor
>Free of mutation or corruption
>Loyal and true to the Humanity
Sorry if you consider the only truly successful Chapter are mary sues.
>>43467759
QFT
>>43467867
Then still Calgar.
No one else punches strength D.
>>43467914
>punches strength D
wat
>>43467955
punches strength D*
*The D stands for Destruction
>>43467886
You see ground from that horse cowboy?
>>43467980
I thought he was strength 8
>>43468038
In Blood Oath he can head smash at D.
>>43467617
>still stronger than that space shark faggot
stay mad, carcharmanders
I'd have to say the custodes purely because they are trained to be the Emperor's personal tool and bodyguards.
The biggest badass out of them would probably the Captain General if he actually did shit if it wasn't for the fact that he plays politics with the High Lords of Terra.
>Fluff says something about Ultramarines
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT CANNOT BE TRUE AAAAAAAAAAAUUGGGGGGGGGGGH
Why does this always happen /tg/?
Your personal favorite doesn't have to be the best.
>>43465881
Get the fuck out of here with that wolf-fucking bullshit
>>43468095
Ward sucks balls, Goto is worse but you know, spewing shit like that is bad.
>>43468174
Ward has been gone for a long time.
Since then Calgar's legend has only grown.
There's only one man who doesn't like the Ultramarines at GW and that's Graham McNeil.
He's gone now.
>>43467730
>biggest Mary Sues
>not the Space Wolves
>>43468287
Agreed, give this man a medal
>>43468287
Ok you got me.
That is true, Spess Welfs are much worse.
Although so far I hate nearly all Chapters of space marine. Damn near all of them are horribly written, either Mary Sues, Edgelords, or written as borderline comedic, like Salamanders. To date the only chapter I really appreciate is Deathwatch, because
1) they're selected as the clever buggers from other chapters
2) they can manage a little subtlety
3) they operate under the authority of the Inquisition, without mistakenly believing they are somehow better than that.
4) they're still usually written as fallible, since they often appear in novels about the Inquisition. (The scene where the Deathwatch marine in Eisenhorn cannot handle the non-euclidian geometry of a heretic stronghold and falls over swearing, where the scarred and traumatized guardsmen are fine was great.)
>>43465571
Sigismund was and is probably still the greatest melee space marine to date.
Kharn the betrayer would have long surpassed him by now though, but he doesn't count as an imperial, that being said as far as space marines go he's the greatest warrior in terms of martial prowess.
Calgar is truly a son of Guilliman well rounded and sensationalized.
Moloc and Tyberos are both badass but lack any proper feats to back them. Draigo would take this but his survival is subject to debate. I strongly dislike the space furries but Logan Grimnar definitely takes this one out.
>>43468776
>only chapter I really appreciate is Deathwatch
But DW are the worst of all.
Their members are just extreme caricatures of whatever chapter they hail from.
In additin to that we get the same old CLASH OF CULTURES BUT MUST TEAM WORK shit again and again.
>>43468826
>Sigismund was and is probably still the greatest melee space marine to date.
I dunno. Calgar punched the shit out of an Avatar, the Swarmlord, An'ggrath, super heavies.
Then there's Draigo and the Sanguinor who have similar feats.
Isn't there fluff about some of the few remaining Thunder Warriors wrecking the shit out of an entire company of Space Marines?
>>43468852
I imagine that could be true in a novel JUST about DW. But I have only seen them one at a time as cameo appearances in you know... good novels.
Which is why my post earlier, >>43466170
Contained no spess muhreens. Only a true human could truly be exceptional. Space Marines are merely tools, like artillery or tanks. You wouldn't ask what the most badass earthshaker round was, would you?
>>43468955
>Only a true human could truly be exceptional. Space Marines are merely tools, like artillery or tanks.
Marines are men who've already proven themselves though.
>>43469004
Proven themselves as pretty good adolescents.
I very much doubt any of them would have grown up to become another Macharius or Yarrick.
>>43467561
Why hasn't he been stated? Does he have a model? How many points would he cost?
>>43469050
>Proven themselves as pretty good adolescents.
They're all proven heroes even at that age.
Macharius did not like Marines because they were the only men in the galaxy capable of stealing his thunder.
>>43468826
There's also Lysander, who's about as tanky as Moloc and at least has the thing where he beat an IW base when captured
But Sigismund could probably eat him for breakfast
draigo or dante.
>>43468888
Thats nice Khorne, but did the Emperor himself name them His personal champion? No, they can do all sorts of feat but deep down inside they know they will never be the Emperor's champion.
>>43469170
>but did the Emperor himself name them His personal champion?
He can't.
But their feats are vastly more impressive.
>>43469105
Exactly. They're a bit like the bombs that fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
A small scale weapon, used at the end of a long drawn out campaign where massive numbers died, to put the final surgical killstroke to the enemy. But then they get 100% of the credit.
I would be pretty damn pissed if I were Macharius as well.
>>43468826
>Sigismund was and is probably still the greatest melee space marine to date
But he's deeeeeeaaaad
>>43468955
If there was as much variation in earth shaker rounds as there are in Space Marines then yes.
Your ignorance is typical of IG players/fanboys.
>>43469073
He probably will be
Unless you count conversions, no
750-ish
>>43468955
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers."
>>43469386
And your attitude is typical of marine fanboys.
You're an apologist for absolutely terrible writing.and I'm an Inquisition fanboy anyways. Ordos4lyfe, maddafackaaaa
>>43468776
>Damn near all of them are horribly written, either Mary Sues, Edgelords, or written as borderline comedic
That's like 99% of any kind of fluff in 40k.
I don't see your point.
>>43469313
Same goes for this.
>muhreens suck because they take all the glory
Every faction in the Imperium is equally important. Marines, Guardsmen, Inquisition, AdMech, Assassins, Navigators, Governors,... Removing anyone from the equation leaves a severely weakened Imperium.
But Marines are literally the avenging angels of the Emperor. Of course they are adorned and praised by everyone in-universe. But even then, nobody will spit on the IG when they liberate a world. They will be treated as heroes too.The only argument could be made for selfish Marine commanders who view normal humans with disdain, but there are also plenty of IG Regiments and Generals who were dicks in the exact same way.
And they are constantly pushed by GW because they sell. They are the face and main selling point of 40k. The sooner you come to terms with this, the better.
>>43465851
Special Rule; Fist of Furry
When Lion engages Russ in close combat, his initiative is Russ' initiative + 1, and can cause special instant death upon a roll of 2+ that removes Russ from the field
>>43465571
On the tabletop the single most powerful character is warmaster horus. 1v1 he can't really lose due to the Warmaster's Talon.
>>43469819
Given how broken Lorgar was before they updated his rules I have a feeling that Magnus is going to be by far the most powerful. With how psychic powers work in 40k any time you want to make a powerful psyker and then crank it to eleven the guy's going to end up stupidly powerful.
Of course, FW would have to actually get around to writing that Burning of Prospero 30k book they keep delaying with other projects.
>>43467886
>Ultras only successful chapter
>working as intended by the emperor
>break the librarian ban
Besides that, only one chapter working as intended out of roughly a thousand? Okay bro.
>>43469561
>>Damn near all of them are horribly written, either Mary Sues, Edgelords, or written as borderline comedic
>That's like 99% of any kind of fluff in 40k.
>I don't see your point.
You don't have to swallow shit writing just because it exists.
>Same goes for this.
>>muhreens suck because they take all the glory
>Every faction in the Imperium is equally important. Marines, Guardsmen, Inquisition, AdMech, Assassins, Navigators, Governors,... Removing anyone from the equation leaves a severely weakened Imperium.
We as readers know this, but assuming you're an IG leader, you wouldn't be pissed at all the Space Marine hype?
>But Marines are literally the avenging angels of the Emperor. Of course they are adorned and praised by everyone in-universe. But even then, nobody will spit on the IG when they liberate a world. They will be treated as heroes too.The only argument could be made for selfish Marine commanders who view normal humans with disdain, but there are also plenty of IG Regiments and Generals who were dicks in the exact same way.
Sure? I agree with you here?
>And they are constantly pushed by GW because they sell. They are the face and main selling point of 40k. The sooner you come to terms with this, the better.
GW doesn't deserve their own Intellectual Property. They push Marines because they sell... and they sell because they are pushed. GW is pretty much constantly demonstrating that they are wildly out of touch with their own fanbase.
>>43469957
Dude, I get that you are pissed off about space marines existing, but some of us like them. Some of us like all of the factions in the 40k universe.
Maybe chill out some?
>>43469890
Quite. Which is why I don't think they'll be letting Magnus select powers from telepathy.
>>43470130
It would be a little weird since telepathically projecting himself through the warp is kind of what Magnus is known for.
That and teleporting his /entire planet/.
Invisibility itself just needs to be changed, the power itself is the real problem.
>>43469819
I think after horus, Ferrus and Guilleman are tied for 2nd.
>>43470183
Yeah. Like if love it if for Magnus you could just select a tree and you get that trees powers. Then like a unique psychic power for Magnus. And then make invisibility just shoot at them and melee thrm at WS/BS1
>>43465571
>Rules
Tough say. Chapter Master Smashfucker I'd say is better than guys like Calgar thanks to his bike, but some of the psykers are some seriously shit.
>Fluff
Hazon Dak'ir. He consumed the Gene-Seed of a hundred Horus Heresy Sallie vets and literally turned into a super saiyan. He cut a Battle Barge in half with his sword and threw a Kaiju Daemon into a volcano and nearly blew up Nocturne.
are you all forgetting the one true saviour of the imperium
>>43470108
Man, I am sorry if I sound so salty, but truly? Most of the people I know interested in 40k don't even play the strategy game. Just the RPGs and read the novels.
My objection is not with the marines themselves. Many sci-fi writers have proven that you can make power armoured supersoldiers interesting.
I just take issue with how awful the writing is for them. Literally the only time they are palatable is when written by an author who normally writes something else. I have started so goddamned many space marine novels and they are always just so fucking flavourless! Yet somehow despite all this, they're still the go-to for every discussion of 40k.
You are completely entitled to like Space Marines, I honestly wish I could as well. But I just wish the harrumphing 90-year olds at GW would pay someone worth a shit to write some of the Marine stuff, because it mostly reads like the masturbatory power fantasies of a bullied 12 year old.
>>43470339
Okay. Or don't chill out. Your choice.
Obvious answer is obvious
although not the most powerful by any means, to bring something different from space marines and some xenos I must say that this guy is pretty badass for a tau
>>43470473
tau are pussies in general, but if you are going to bring one at least put the real badass
>>43470309
I was capaigning on some backwater jungle against a buncha orks. My fire team had just gotten ambushed by 25 greenies, when they just started dropping like flies, all carved up inta steamin chunks!
I thought, "an eversor? Here?" and began to make my peace with the Emperor, when this motherfrakker here drops out of the trees, holds a finger to his lips, and evaporates into the jungle.
I didn't even know we had any Catachans deployed on that world!
>>43470339
Are you dense? Space Marines sell because people fucking love superheroes and supersoldiers. The guard is unpopular because they're the mooks of the Imperium- no different than beat cops in marvel. Even if pushed they wouldn't sell well because not only are Cadians generic as fuck, but they simply don't appeal to popular culture. Nobody wants to be the Redshirt.
There's a reason why Marvel sodomizes most other movies on the Box Office and why comic books are soooo fucking prevalent in nerd culture. People need heroes, and Astartes fill that gap in 40k.
>>43470547
Good to see you actually read my post.
Oh wait...
>>43469561
3 guardsmen can lift a space marine up
>totally canon
>>43470473
As much as I like Farsight "pretty badass for a Tau" is about equal to an above-average Space Marine Captain in terms of tabletop stats. Until FW does something bananas and makes an HQ piloting a Riptide (you know it's only a matter of time) the Tau don't really have any characters that compare with the biggest badasses other factions can bring.
>>43470339
Why the fuck are you reading 40k novels?
They suck. Stick to forge world stuff dumbass.
>>43470583
I did, and there is no sense to it. If GW pushed Guardsmen they wouldn't suddenly start selling as well as Space Marines- not remotely unless there was a major fluff overhaul that turned them into action hero mary sues. Escapist fantasies sell like hotcakes. The Guard is not even in the most remote sense an escapist fantasy for anybody besides masochists.
>>43470521
That reminds me of my last campaign, we dropped in a desert world where Tau were contesting His domain but we were found wanting as our supply lines got broken and platoon after platoon start getting isolated and destroyed. After several skirmishes we managed to regroup and make a stand but a day or so after we saw the horizon filled with Tau skimmers gunning for us, we gave them hell but it was for naught as they kept coming until the fucking ground started to explode, one after the other the xeno vehicles seemed to run into mines and burn. After that this weird guy comes out of the fucking sands with nothing but a bomb trigger and a speedo, we look at each other for a bit and then he just walks off.
Emperor bless that naked stranger.
>>43470729
Hold up... forgeworld has novels?
All I see on their site is rulebooks.
To clarify, I am reading Black Library novels. Sandy Mitchell and Dan Abnett, mostly.
>>43470760
No, but it makes for better fiction. More drama. There is a reason nobody really wants to read a novel about a superhero unless it is about how they fucked up really badly. My post is not about why space marines sell, it is about how awful the writing is. At no point did you adress the awful writing. They could sell space marines WITH good writing you know. Haldemann did it. Heinlein did it. Even friggin Blizzard did it.
>>43465571
You can't use those two questions together because not all the fluff characters are in the table top.
Calgar is pretty goof for the army and okay in combat.
The Chapter Master smashfucker with IHs rules is crazy.
Fluff wise all the Space Marine Chapter masters kick about 9001 buckets of ass on their own.
>>43466170
>yarrick
>feared by his enemies
Ghazzy loves that guy, they're besties far as he's concerned
>>43470959
/lit/ is the other way.
Expecting good writing from Black Library is like expecting good writing from a random word generator. It can and will happen statistically, but it should not by any means be considered the norm.
I mentioned forge world because their rulebooks (and a lot of rulebooks actually, esp. the 3rd edition space marine codex) has a lot of atmospheric stories and short stories in them. Compared to almost all black library publications they are superior.
Ultimately, the coolest stories are the ones that we make on the table. Fought an epic 40k and battlefleet gothic campaign (with some little 40k games in there) that saw a space marine chapter's home world destroyed. Now we have an angry fleet based chapter running around the larger campaign. It was awesome, like Knights of Saint John at Malta tier.
>>43465571
the emperor you fucking idiot
if you disagree that's HERESEY!
Most powerful fighters 1 on 1 in Imperial history were Horus, Sanguinius, Russ, Angron, Khan, and Lion.
Magnus was likely the most powerful Primarch by a good degree, but he always held back his powers. He would have kicked Russ' shit in had he not been overcome with defeatism
>>43472321
>always held back his powers
does that include Lorgar Transcendent? What about Fulgrim? i always had those two on the same level as yours. And im not sure about Jaghatai, he was always just a bike-based corax to me
>>43472169
Fair enough.
And /lit/ is made up of elitist scumbags.
Most of /lit/ cannot even consider that a serial or pulp author COULD be good. If /lit/ were here they would roll in to tell us all we are objectively worse than hitler for enjoying Sandy Mitchell or Dan Abnett. They would probably burn you as a heretic for reading short stories.
We had a /tg/ reading thread a week back and a group of e/lit/ist dirtbags came and shitposted the thread to death, telling everyone that they may as well be raping puppies because they actually read Jim Butler or Warhammer Fantasy. I fear even mentioning it will summon them...
>>43465571
Probably Draigo, or one of the Primarchs
>>43465628
Really though, Alpharius and/or Omegon are probably the strongest dudes left outside the eye of terror.
I think the only other left Primarch not having marched off into the warp was Vulkan, and he's implied to be stuck in a Necron prison.
>>43474796
>Really though
Too bad Alpha Legion are actually loyalists is just a shitty forced meme perpetuated only by ALfags.
>>43468219
>There's only one man who doesn't like the Ultramarines at GW and that's Graham McNeil.
Ironic that he's written the best Ultramarines, no?
I don't want to be that guy, but Sebastian Yarrick. I mean, Orks wake up in cold sweats about him.
Eldrad.
He's been pretending to be the Grey Knight cm this whole time.
>>43474796
Vulkan will rise. The smith never abandons his forge while embers still burn.
>>43480371
He did win against Abaddon
>>43480399
It was a draw.
>>43480427
Abaddon disappeared after getting a spear in the throat, not much of a draw
I'm gonna take a huge wild step and say that Szarekh is gonna be a contester. He's the leader of the Necrons, and in 40k, you don't get to be in charge unless you are one hardcore motherfucker. So even though we'll never get rules for him, I'd be willing to bet my wanking hand that that the Silent King would /rekt almost any other character in 40k.
>>43465571
SGM kaldor
also why people listing zenos and traitor
OP say the Imperium
>>43480449
You didn't read the battle report did you?
Abaddon was getting a spear to the throat and Eldar was getting a daemon sword to the face. If the gods didn't intervene, then both of them would be dead.
>>43466170
>Most famous
>Caiphas Cain
>Not this motherfucker
>Gets personally resurrected by the Emps everytime she dies.
>>43468074
Except they are doing something and the fluff on them is really quiet about it and they are the most badass.
The Custodes aren't deployed because they are there on Terra to protect the emperor.
>from what? Terra is extremely well defended, and The Emperor is dead on the goldne throne!
Well not exactly. The emperor 's psychic might and conciousness still exist which is why thelight of the Astronomicon still burns bright for the whole fucking galaxy to see. Then there is the other issue.
Namely the fuck huge door to the warp underneath the emperor of mankind where the Webway of Mankind is supposed to be.
>WTF are you talking about sperglord
Because you probably haven't read a lot of the fluff, basically the emperor wanted to use something besides shitty warp travel (Because it is IN FACT a bad way to travel ftl.) So he commissioned the webway of mankind. The problem is, and this is a very brief summary that is to keep it short, Magnus fucked it up.
> And where does that leave the custodes
So now the Custodes fight and hold the line, so shit does not get through to Terra. The ones that the people see are on merely on leave so they don't go insane froom fighting an endless daemonic incursion that has been going on since shit hit the fan.
Logan Grimnir mechanics wise.
Bjorn the fell handed alive fluff wise.
>>43467352
that really refers more to his abilities as a commander rather than his personal skill in combat.
>>43480903
>Implying someone else besides primarchs punched chosen bloodthirster of khorne and avatar to death.
>>43480931
>implying your quote mentioned those facts
>>43480931
Only the BA supplexed them from orbit
>>43480627
>>43481449
The original battle report, you moron. This one is the abridged version for the Eye of Terror Campaign book.
>>43470250
>Hazon Dak'ir
What
>>43481600
(picture related)
This the fluff from the original battle report.
>>43481609
From the Nick Kyme (I Think) Salamander's series.
Hazon Dak'ir is a late start Psyker, I'm pretty sure his hair changed color in the book.So yeah super saiyan
>>43481600
>>43481639
Wow. It's really not like you to be this wrong.
>>43468131
>Grimnar is believed by some observers to be one of the most powerful warriors in the Imperium, greater even than other Space Marine Chapter Masters such as Lord Commander Dante of the Blood Angels, Supreme Grand Master Azrael of the Dark Angels, and even Lord Marneus Calgar of the feared Ultramarines.
You can shut the fuck up now faggot
>>43481600
If anything >>43481639 makes abaddon look even worse since in the one posted before the blade missed eldrad because a warlock swept his blade away
>>43481779
I ain't wrong.
The battle would have ended in draw with Abaddon being pierced in throat and Eldrad getting a face full of daemon sword. Sick and tried if it being brought up as a victory for Elddard.
>>43481867
of it*
>>43478960
Maybe it would be if his Ultramarines weren't actually garbage.
>>43478960
>actually liking Ventris
ew
>>43480903
>Mentions his "great acts of valor and courage"
>Mentions his "titanic might"
>T-that refers more to his abilities as a commander
Please so hatin'.
>>43481828
What's your source?
>>43481828
>Grimnar is believed by some observers to be one of the most powerful warriors in the Imperium
>believed by some observers
>one of the most
Calgar is outright stated best.
Also warhammer wiki is not a good source.
>>43482103
>Calgar
>>43482103
>Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves is perhaps beloved by the people of the Imperium above any other Space Marine commander, and Marneus Calgar is often considered the most respected by the other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. Commander Dante of the Blood Angels bears a reputation similar to theirs, but where the Great Wolf is celebrated by the populace for his wisdom as well as his warfare, the Lord of Angels is a distant, golden saviour - a hero of myth come to life. Where Lord Macragge is a composed, ruthlessly efficient front-line general admired for his acumen as much as his battle prowess, the Bringer of Light is an avenging angel, falling from the sky ahead of his brothers to strike the first blow.
>No loyal soul would ever compare such exalted heroes – all are equal beneath the gaze of the God-Emperor – but over 1000 years of supreme service speaks for itself.
-Wotdm: Dante
------------------
None of you are loyal souls.
>>43482133
H-He just wanted to honor him on Armageddon! m-muh seniority...
>>43482123
Got a point, senpai?
>>43482133
No comparison here though.
Calgar is out right stated as best.
>>43482167
>No comparison here though.
Not the point.
All of them are equal in the eyes of the Emperor. By comparing them against each other, you all have proven yourselves to be disloyal.
>>43482190
No comparisson though.
Thread asks who is the biggest bad ass.
That is Calgar as stated in fluff.
It is as simple to answer as who is the goldest chapter master?
The answer is Dante.
>>43482190
>All of them are equal in the eyes of the Emperor.
Then why is there only one champion? Check and mate faggots.
>>43482272
Actually there are many Champions.
Most Space Marine companies will have a Champion.
In addition Black Templars have an Emperor's Champion per Crusade.
>CTRL + F
>0 result for Sly Marbo
Ok.
>>43481839
Plus, even if you don't know where the two bits of fluff came from - and in which order - it's hard to see how anyone could consider >>43481449 "abridged" from >>43481639.Either he's aware of the real sources and is trying to troll, or this is a rare case of him actually getting caught out. But even without playing the game, he should still know what a battle report does and doesn't look like.
>>43482167
>>43482243
>>43481779
No, it's reasonably common. He likes to "quote" things, which inevitably fucks himself over. Usually just means deploying a smokescreen and shitposting another topic.
>>43470250
That sounds retarded.
Swallowing DNA gives you space marine x100 powers now?
>>43482372
Nope.
I quote things and they are accurate usually and prove my point. However, anons sometimes get disingenuous and try to reinterpret what's in the text or act like morons like the other day and say the sources are "biased".
But that all besides the main point. The topic here was the fight between Abaddon and Eldrad a draw? Yes, yes it was. This is beyond a doubt.
>>43481744
Didn't he like...die in the book?
>>43482357
>>43481828
>Believed by many to possibly maybe have the potential wishy washy maybe waybe.
>>43482441
But the daemon blade missed. Like entirely, it said that in both sources.
Weird for you to ignore what's written, you are normally so anal about these things.
>>43482524
Speaking about the Great Wolf....
For years, anons have having at him for using the Axe of Morkai because of its Chaosy origins. Saying that he was clearly tainted because he is using a weapon that glows with the dark power of Khorne.
Well, I guess you anons haven't read the Arjac Rockfist novel where he reforges the Axe. The spirit in the Axe of Morkai, through power of Fenris and indomitable spirit of the Space Wolves, has been tamed and enslaved, showing that even the power of the Chaos Gods is no match for the Wolves.
In "Hour of the Wolf", Khorne has been shown to be enraged at having his power taken as a trophy by the Great Wolf, and he considers him his most hated mortal enemy. Above all others, Khorne desires the skull of the Great Wolf.
>>43482561
It didn't miss. It has a hairs breadth from Eldrad's face. It was pulling him into the spear trying to punch into Eldrad's face. If the blade overcame Abaddon or Abaddon allowed the blade to sally forth, then Eldrad would have died.
>>43465589
That.
Red fucking Wake.
>>43482710
He is an infantry butcher. He jobs to regular blokes with power fists.
>>43482690
was*
>>43482690
>carnac sometimes get disingenuous and try to reinterpret what's in the text
>>43482383
Yeah, it should only give youtheir memories.
>there are people in this thread that think that Kruze and Magnus did nothing wrong
>>43482817
Except I didn't.
Read the page again. See (>>43481639).
-Abaddon closed in for the kill
-Eldrad lifted his spear
-Sword stopped a hair's breadth from Eldrad's face
-The Sword was pulling Abaddon into the spear trying to punch into Eldrad face
How can anyone read it any other way?
>>43482872
>stopped
It was a miss and there was nothing suggestig the sword pulling anything
>>43482897
It wasn't and it was pulling Abaddon trying to connect with Eldrad's face.
Can't you read?
>>43482977
That was after the spear already connected, it was abaddon the retard that closed in and missed, resulting in him being impaled
>>43483003
No, Abaddon was stabbed in the throat before the sword could connect. That what caused the sword to stop centimetres away from Eldrad face. The sword kept pulling Abaddon on the spear, trying to stab into Eldrad's face.
>>43482675
underrated post
but, yeah: abaddon is the biggest bad. game-wise he rules any other comer with his uber statline and gear
>>43465818
Yes, IIRC he is one of if not the toughest chapter masters.
>Eternal warrior
>Preferred Enemy SM
>Storm Shield
>Str 6 AP 2 at initiative weapon
>One shot pseudo Lascannon
>Squad suffers no penalties for charging into terrain
>>43482025
>>43482036
>actual characters who aren't epic meme lords and don't make infallible judgements? not in my 40k! no sir!
>>43485360
He beats all the named Chapter Masters/Captains in the marine dex. Calgar and Lysander put up a decent fight with FNP. Vaylund Cal might also have a shot being T6, FNP 6, IWND, but he's only WS5, 3W, 2+/4++.
He's beat by Chapter Master Smashfucker though. PE doesn't make up for wounding on 3s, FNP 6 (at least), and It Will Not Die.
For 10 points Smashfucker can re-roll a failed wound roll per phase too.
He's a bit more expensive though, 250/260 vs 235.
>>43485641
kek - you won't convince the mary sues; nice try, though!
>>43485641
Don't even try and defend mcneill's ultramarine series.
>>43482561
oh, anon! the fight was a draw - there was one (ONE) thread of Fate that led to Eldrad's survival; every other possibility in the infinite number of possibilities led to Eldrad's death. Eldrad couldn't win; he could only survive; DRAW.
>>43486527
hey, mcneill can't write - which bl hack can? - but the anon's point is valid
>>43470713
Considering that even the average Marine is a superhuman angel of death, and SM Captains are usually among the most experienced and skilled individuals in the Chapter, being equal to an above-average SM Captain is pretty damn good, especially for a race that is normally equal to an untrained conscript when it comes to melee combat.
>>43465571
Kharn.
It's aways Kharn.
100000 years of killing everything in sight and batlle experience.
Seriously, this is a nigga that brags about having killed a few Chapter Masters... of every single Chapter.
But if you are talking about Loyalist, then it's Tyberos the Red Wake.
>>43487430
But both of them get their ass handed by Sigismund, Primarchs and 40k Abaddon.
>>43487430
This is now a Kharn thread.
>>43487430
>>43487473
Fuck Kharn.
>>43487472
Abaddon himself says he wouldn't go toe to toe with Kharn on Kharn's worst day.
Nigger, you are talking about a guy that solo'd the Blood Angels first company alone.
The lore says he is the favorite son of the Blood God himself. Not even Doombreed gets that title.
> Did anyone say Kharn thread?
As I always say, Khârn the Betrayer was pretty fun to be around, and contrary to popular belief he actually had a sense of humor as well. Probably the best example was in the middle of the campaign during a sweeping of an Imperial Guard command post, with Khorne Berserkers and our Red Rivers company marching directly into the defensive fire. The closer we got, the more apparent it became that the only thing holding the Guardsmen together was a grizzled looking Commissar in full uniform, one gun turned on us and another firing on any of his men who looked like running.
Khârn was at the tip of the assault, and so he got to the Commissar first, plucking the screaming officer up by the neck and holding him over his head.
Then, out of nowhere one of the other berserkers grabs the Commissar's legs and roars "MAKE A WISH!". Well, as you can imagine everyone on both sides forgets about the fight, and watches Khârn and this other Khorne-worshiping marine just start pulling on this Commissar at both ends, the old man screaming out oaths and curses like you wouldn't believe! You could almost hear the sound of flesh tearing and bone snapping over the cheering.
Then, Khârn just let go. Totally not expecting it and pulling with all his might, the Khorne Berserker just falls backwards and starts tumbling with the near dead Commissar into a damaged hellhound, his armor grating off it and sparking!
Well, after the explosion we all turned back to Khârn, who had managed to keep a hold of the Commissar's fancy hat. Ol' Khârn put it on, and damned if it wasn't the funniest thing any of us had ever seen... till he turned to us and bellowed "I'M THE NEW COMMISSAR" at us.
They tell me five thousand traitor guardsmen died that day before someone could take that hat off him.
What a kidder!
Contrary to popular belief, Khârn the Betrayer was a pretty fun guy to be around during a blood-letting campaign. Sure, he'd get so wrapped up in the blood-lust that he'd butcher friend and foe alike but it's not like you didn't get a fair warning from his name or anything.
I served in the traitor guardsman legions known as the Red Rivers, because we got sent in first to soften up the positions and you could see our progress by the red river of our blood. I kept running into Khârn during one of the bigger scourging campaigns, and he wasn't dickish about the whole him being a space marine and me being killed by flashlights or angry glances at all.
The first time I saw him, I was on perimeter patrol at one of our forward outposts, we'd just overrun a Sororitas non-militant chapel, and I was watching from afar when Khârn strides up, cool as you like holding the largest stone pillar I've ever seen. I turned back and the whole chapel was falling down. He'd just ripped the thing right out and was carrying it on his shoulders!
Then, if that wasn't insane enough he went and hefted this whole pillar through the air, and crushed the entire congregation of Slaaneshi, all in one go.
I was just standing there dumbfounded when Khârn looked at me, as though noticing me for the first time and yet not surprised by my presence at all. He held his palm out, and I obliged him a high five. He'd earned it.
Shattered every bone in my arm doing it though.
Nice guy, that Khârn.
>everyone always posts warriors/chapter masters
>always forget this motherfucker
The second time I crossed paths with Khârn was in a later stage in the campaign. We were besieging one of the major hives of the planet, and I tell you what that place was locked up tighter than a Dark Eldar's pants. My commander, Oxlor the Vilest, was stuck in an argument with some idiot leader of some group of Death Guard. You could see the smell it was so bad. I could tell Oxlor wasn't happy, since everyone knows the Death Guard's answer to everything is to just walk at it and watch your bits fly off. Not so good for us soft and squishy guys.
Out of nowhere, this big hand grabs our commander by the shoulder and just hefts him aside, three whole trenches back where he rebounds off a basilisk. The crew was so shocked they fired off a round on a horrible trajectory, and the shell streaked high into the sky.
Khârn the Betrayer just dusts himself down, and then picks back up what he had been holding. Now, I'm no techpriest and I never will be, but I know a nuclear warhead when I see it. I don't know where he got it.
No one says anything, so The Betrayer just punches the Plague marine in the face, and stuffs the warhead into the leaking mess of his stomach while he was still reeling.
No run up, no preparation. He just fucking throws the other marine into the air at the hive. For a moment it actually looks like he's thrown the warp-damned fool OVER the hive, but as he flies over the top the basilisk shell comes down and spears him through the whole hive! There's a low boom noise, the ground shakes, and then the whole hive EXPLODES!
Everything clears, and Khârn looks at me, and I feel about one foot tall. I don't know if he recognized me, but he leans down and whispers. Khârn WHISPERS to me.
"I was trying to hit the Emperor's Children on the other side" he confides in me, and then nudges me as though it's supposed to be our little secret.
I was in traction for a MONTH.
I've been fairly insistent to you readers out there that Khârn the Betrayer was a pretty fun guy to be around. I know he gets a bad rap for the whole 'slaughtering his own allies' thing, but unless you've been there after a battle with him you don't really appreciate how much he strives to please his chaos god.
It was after one of our many conflicts that the Red Rivers Infantry were preparing to march on to our next destination. Never mind that it was half the planet away, we as traitor guard didn't get transport vehicles. So as you can imagine when someone declared they'd found an Imperial Drop-ship in working condition everyone clamored and fought to get a free ride to our next engagement.
Knowing full well I was too far away to get on the ship, I stayed with some of my fellow traitors at the battlefield. I'd seen Khârn after the battle, and as soon as we'd gotten our marching orders he was picking up corpses and putting them down elsewhere. This took an hour before he was satisfied, and seeing an audience he happily led us up onto a hill as the drop-ship flew a pass over the top of us, probably to gloat. Proudly, Khârn gestured to the battlefield, and then waved up at the drop-ship with his other hand. I peered down the hill, and realized he'd arranged the bodies to make out words, so many killed to form:
On your drop ship hull
I planted a melta bomb
Blood for the Blood God
It was at that point the drop-ship erupted in a violent plume, and crashed down on top of the haiku. Roaring in a cheer, we lifted Khârn up together and made to carry him to the next battlefield as a sign of our appreciation and devotion to his art.
We got about five paces before our spines liquefied, but Khârn didn't hold it against us for trying.
Seriously, what a guy.
>>43487586
No Calistarius, i am the best.
I've always said Khârn the Betrayer is a heck of a guy in spite of his reputation. But even I have often wondered just which side of him was more prevalent. The great guy or the butcher?
I got my answer when The Red Rivers sacked an Adeptus Mechanicus primary research facility. Aided by renegade tech priests we opened the bulkhead doors of the Head Magos's research chamber, and ended his life. In this room was a huge throne that the Magos used, a massive collection of wires around a cold metal frame used to interface with the facility.
Grinning, a guardsman jumped onto the throne and yelled "HEY GUYS! I'M THE EMPEROR!". We barely had time to chuckle before hearing a loud clang behind us.
Behind us stood Khârn, his axe having slipped from his grasp as he stared at us. We weren't sure what was happening till frothing blood began to spill out his helmet.
With a roar of anger that drowned out our own cries Khârn rushed the throne, ripping it out of the wall over his head as the guardsman remained sitting in it screaming helplessly. With a cry of "REVENGE!" Khârn drove the entire throne through the floor, utterly destroying it and the guardsman in an explosion of gore. We ran.
I was too slow and the other guys sealed the bulkhead behind them, leaving me alone and cowering as Khârn advanced. He was almost upon me when he stopped and burst out laughing at me.
"APRIL FOOLS!"
Rattled but relieved, I burst into an exhausted laugh at the clever gag. Suitably pleased, Khârn slapped me on the back and praised me for being such a good sport. The Tech Priests tell me they've never seen a bulkhead breached by a human body before, but that's Khârn for you. Heck of a guy.
Khârn the Betrayer is a pretty surprising guy, he pretty well known for it, but most of the time people ignore the humorous side of these outbursts of temporary insanity.
One time, after overrunning a refugee camp that hadn't been evacuated in time we decided to engage in some party games to relieve the monotony of senseless slaughter: spin the prisoner, throw the prisoner, shoot the prisoner, prisoner of fortune etc. Now after we blink when one of them gets nailed by a 100 yard headshot from a lasgun. This is pretty impressive considering the general state of most of my regiment’s lasguns. Lately I've taken to just throwing mine at the enemy and finding a corpse to hide under if required to use it in any kind if defensive fashion.
Anyway, the ace yells, "Wooo! One shot!"
The ace is getting high-fives and cheers when Khârn appears behind him. He picks up the lasgun from the ground, overcharges the power pack, and throws it into a group of loyalists standing about a half mile away. It blows them off the face of the planet.
"WOOO!" he yells, fist in the air. "ONE SHOT!"
The guy’s priceless I tell ya. Priceless.
>>43465571
Emprah, although he doesn't have a model.
The absolute worst part about being in the Red Rivers (aside from the food) is interplanetary travel. You would think with the whole falling to ruinous powers thing that you'd be able to get to where you wanted to go easy as pie, but then you take an actual trip and the Chaos Space Marines dragging you along as death fodder burst into fits of laughter when you ask why the Gellar Field hasn't activated. Then a horror crawls out your nose.
Mostly it's the boredom that gets you though, when they stuff you down in the dark holds with nothing to do but play cards and avoid sleeping near the Slaanesh worshippers. It wasn't so bad though. One time we were down there and saw Khârn walking around just knocking on the hold walls. We assumed he'd been asked politely to come down here after once again trying to commandeer the ship and crash it into the other ones so that they could make an explosion to make them go faster. So there he was, just wandering, knocking and listening. Bored as we were we followed, just to see where it would go.
Well, it took most of the trip and a great deal of wandering but as the call to prepare for planetfall began to go out, Khârn finally got the knock he wanted and punched through the entire wall. Just pulled back and walloped a great big tear into the wall. Which exposed us to space. Khârn saw our looks of horror as the void threatened to pull us out, and quickly made over to grab a few of us then jumped out of the hole, cool as you like.
Well, I've made plenty of planetfalls but never before was I instructed on how to enter the atmosphere surfing on a berserker chaos marine. I don't think I'll grow most of my hair or skin back, but I'll have one heck of a story to tell my kids. A story about a heck of a ride on a heck of a guy.
Which Loyalist could give Kharn the greatest fight?
So me and my detachement of Traitor Guardsmen were stationed with a World Eater warband around Cyrax-VII. Warmaster Abaddon had declared he wanted the planet purged and that we were to sent him the heads of all Imperials on the main hive cities. I don't know why he wanted that, but talk was someone down there had made a really lousy song called "The Ballad of No-Armsbaddon" and he didn't want to abide that. Anyway, we were sitting on the trenches desperately trying to get this brand-new Autocannon to work, when the ground trembles beneath us and the sun seems to go out for some reason. I just went back to trying to dislodge the autocannon's firing mechanism with a piece of someone's femur, I figured one of the World Eaters had decided to try and pilot a Melta Bomb and had exploded in the atmosphere.
Anyway I realized my fellow Traitor Guardsmen had stopped talking, so I looked up. Right there at the edge of the trench was a Blood Angel Dreadnought just staring at us, actually leaning down on us as if trying to figure out what we were, or doing whatever Dreadnoughts call leaning.
"WAIT A MINUTE, THIS ISN'T MY SIDE OF THE BATTLE LINE".
I felt my inner ear liquify right on the spot.
>>43487776
>>43487776
I just flung the Autocannon away and focused very hard on digging a hiding-hole on the ground with my bare-hands. Few of my fellow Guardsmen tried to open fire with their Lasguns and some yelled and did this little dance.
The Dreadnought just started spinning his Power-Fist in the air and stomping everything.
"FEEL THE EMPEROR'S WRATH! DIE IN HOLY FIRAH! NO MERCY OR DESPAIR! PREPARE TO BE PURGED!"
I realized there's not enough time, so I decided just to close my eyes and wait for it. Maybe the Dreadnought wouldn't rip me limb by limb, instead just blowing me into ashes with it's flamer and maybe some Daemon wouldn't use my soul as toilet paper. I might just be that lucky.
But right at that moment the Dreadnought just simply stops dead in is tracks. If Dreadnoughts had expressions I'd tell you this one looked very confused. I head this loud sound of metal being torn open and the Dreadnought just moved in the awkward position. Then it started to shake itself from one side to the other. You could hear the servo units being crushed and torn apart, and the Marine corpse inside being awfully frustrated.
"WAIT A MINUTE..BY THE EMPEROR, WHAT IS GOING ON."
Then out of nowhere, this huge Khornate Berserker just erupts from the Dreadnought's sarcophagus, covered in aminial fluid and blood, sending sharp shards of ceramite flying everywhere.
It was Kharn.
Boy let me tell you, we were terrifyed. We had heard about Kharn's reputation and we just thought about the word "From the frying pan into the fire", because the Dreadnought was dead, but now we were facing this guy known Galaxy-wide as "The Betrayer".
>>43487831
>>43487831
\I was about to go back into digging my hole when we realized Kharn was giggling. Actually giggling.
We looked up and he was just standing there, waist deep inside a Dreadnought sarcophagus and holding his hands next to his massive chest as if they where tiny claws.
"LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I'M AN ALIEN! SCREEEEE! SCRREEE!!!"
We just lost it right there Kharn scrambled back inside the Dreadnought and pulled down some pieces of the dead Marine from inside along with some Power Cables. He then piloted the Dreadnought carcass right into the Emperor's Children detachment while yelling "SCRREEEEEE!", stomping around and picking up Emperor's Children marines to fling at us yelling "CATCH!"
It took a whole batallion of Black Legionares to convice him he was not an Alien
>>43487767
None.
The most badass Loyalist only has psycker magic going on for him (Mephiston). Magic doesn't work on Kharn.
Besides even if he kills him, Kharn simply comes back.
Kharn is the Michael Myers meets Jason of 40k. Nobody can kill the fucker
>>43466170
>>43480662
You're both wrong. If dead guys count the most famous is either Sanguinus or Sebastian Thor.
>>43470309
Fuck Yea!
Abbadon....(cue lightning flash)...I'm coming to get you!
>open thread
>ctrl+f
>Calgar
>29 hits
get of /tg/ Matt
>>43482036
>>43482025
Pretty sure Ventris has more feats than Calgar does. Still probs doesn't come close to Draigo though who defeats a Daemon Primarch.
Also anyone who's pulling the "it's stated that he's the best" are retarded. Abaddon is also stated often as supposedly the strongest Chaos member, but evidence shows of him being Failbaddon. Same with Calgar evidence hasn't shown he himself pull much in terms of crazy shit.
Draigo's feats should also be taken with a grain of salt since a lot of them don't make any logical sense at all and like how comic book guys disregard stupid non-sense feats (ex. Superman destroying a galaxy by sneezing) we should, too.
That leaves Ventris, Lord Castellan Creed, and Ibram Gaunt as those guys have done the most going up against the craziest odds.
>>43487524
Doombreed has caused more damage than any other Chaos except maybe Tzeentch guys in general but that's more than one person.
>>43482441
>DURRRRRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRR DURRRR RRRRRRR DUR HURRRRRRRRR RRRRRRR DURRRRRR
I automatically just edit whatever carnac types into that.
>>43488213
This, both Doombreed and Angron would royally fuck Kharn's shit up.
>>43470658
It's 3 kriegers tho. They're like ants
>>43482867
get off the internet russ
http://strawpoll.me/5930460/
http://strawpoll.me/5930412/
>>43488213
>Pretty sure Ventris has more feats than Calgar does.
Like what?
>Still probs doesn't come close to Draigo though who defeats a Daemon Primarch.
Calgar defeated An'ggrath who is Khorne's mightiest.
>Also anyone who's pulling the "it's stated that he's the best" are retarded.
Following the fluff is not retarded.
>Calgar evidence hasn't shown he himself pull much in terms of crazy shit.
Are you joking? Calgar has probably pulled the most crazy shit out of everyone in the Imperium, matched maybe only by Draigo.
>>43489180
>Like what?
Making Nightbringer his bitch, responsible for successfully stopping the Tyranid invasion on Tarsis Ultra by temporarily becoming Deathwatch again and doing a good job of Deathwatching, took a small force to down the Medrengard fortress and all the crazy shit in there, fixed political situations at Salinas and Pavonis, protected Pavonis from Dark Eldar/Necron/Tau, was also vastly responsible for the defense of Ultramar when it was invaded by Chaos.
Calgar defeated An'ggrath who even the weakest primarch Lorgar was able to beat and has one hell of a losing streak, was given the Mcguffin by Ventris to beat M'kar who also had one hell of a losing streak.
Ventris defeated people with otherwise excellent track records like the Nightbringer, Tyranids with genocidal feats, an actually competent chaos lord/warsmith, and has shown to be intelligent too taking care of political situations. He might not have as much raw power as Calgar or Draigo, but he has demonstrated skill levels much higher than either.
>>43489473
Ventris gets his shit kicked constantly.
He let a C'tan shard escape.
He abandoned his brothers.
He got his shit slapped by the daemon train and the heart of blood, daemons of Khorne. Meanwhile Calgar punched the head off of Khorne's strongest daemon.
Let's have a look at Calgar's feats.
>Twenty eight volumes are dedicated to his heroic deeds, more than any other Ultramarine
>Marshals feudal world peasant and uses them to slaughter hundreds of Night Lords
>Holds a gate against a WAAAGH alone
>Lifts a super heavy Necron Pylon
>Catches the Wailing Doom with one hand
>Punches straight through the body of an Avatar
>Beats the Swarmlord to death with his bare hands
>Tears M'kar apart limb from limb
>Turns An'ggrath's head to paste
>Is numerous times referred to as a God
Ventris ain't shit, and that's despite McNeil trying to drag down all the other Ultramarines to elevate him.
>>43465571
In all honesty, it depends.
If we're talking about Primarchs who are still alive (or "alive"), I'd say Vulkan. The dude is a perpetual,for one, but he also fucked up Kurze by himself when Guillimun and Johnson COMBINED couldn't.
In terms of non-primarch, my vote would have to go to Cypher. He seriously does not fuck around.
>>43489782
>He let a C'tan shard escape.
Keep that in mind that he LET it escape. He could've very easily fucked him up by destroying the damn ship.
>He abandoned his brothers
So more of his brothers and the people on the planet won't die.
>He got his shit slapped by the daemon train and the heart of blood, daemons of Khorne.
And was ultimately partially responsible for the death of the daemon train demon thing and defeated the entire fortress worth's of Chaos Marines and daemons
>Twenty eight volumes are dedicated to his heroic deeds, more than any other Ultramarine
Doesn't neccesarily mean that he has done the most. Only his are the most recorded other than Girlyman's.
>Marshals feudal world peasant and uses them to slaughter hundreds of Night Lords
Admittedly smart and badass I'll give you this one
>Tears M'kar apart limb from limb
Gets help from Inquisition first time, gets help from Ventris the second time.
>Beats the Swarmlord to death with his bare hands
What? He lost to the Swarmlord 1v1 the first time, "beat" it the second time. Not to mention that Ventris did a much better job of holding back a hive fleet than Calgar did. Calgar caused too high a loss of Ultramarines against Behemoth and had everyone die on Ichar against Kraken.
>Holds a gate against a WAAAGH alone
>Lifts a super heavy Necron Pylon
>Catches the Wailing Doom with one hand
>Punches straight through the body of an Avatar
>Turns An'ggrath's head to paste
Cool he has a lot of raw power and brute strength. What happened to Girlyman's a perfect example of why raw power and brute strength alone aren't enough in a fight.
>>43490183
>Keep that in mind that he LET it escape.
Yes. That's damning. He'd rather live than die killing an ancient star god. What a shit.
>So more of his brothers and the people on the planet won't die.
No, he was a commander and abandoned his command, even he realizes he was a shit for this.
>And was ultimately partially responsible for the death of the daemon train demon thing and defeated the entire fortress worth's of Chaos Marines and daemons
By releasing a powerful daemon of Khorne. The he brought his mutant friends to a planet where they got possessed and killed everyone.
>Doesn't neccesarily mean that he has done the most. Only his are the most recorded other than Girlyman's.
Keep reaching.
>Gets help from Inquisition first time, gets help from Ventris the second time.
That was a retcon that was retconed back. It's back to him tearing him apart. And M'kar is stronger than Mortarion.
>What? He lost to the Swarmlord 1v1 the first time
The Swarmlord and it's entire bodyguard.
>"beat" it the second time.
One on one and with his bear hands.
>Not to mention that Ventris did a much better job of holding back a hive fleet than Calgar did.
Ventris took a splinter fleet. Calgar took an entire Hivefleet, and that was when Tyranids were a new, unknown threat. Casualties were good on Ichar, he just couldn't arrive in time to save the planet even though he killed all the Nids.
>Cool he has a lot of raw power and brute strength.
And is a well recognized master of tactics and strategy, unlike Ventris.
> What happened to Girlyman's a perfect example of why raw power and brute strength alone aren't enough in a fight.
How? If Guilliman was a better fighter he would not have had his throat slit.
>>43470309
I remember the time I met Sly Marbo.
It was on the desert world of Khopej II, during the Necron War of Dharion. My squad was supposed to be looking for an oasis or something, since we were running out of water. Sarge was standing on a dune, overlooking the sand, when suddenly there was a flash of green and he exploded.
About 30 Necrons and a tomb lord crested the dune, and cut down everyone. I was the only man left standing, and it didn't look good.
Suddenly, every single Necron's head explode, one by one, until I'm left standing there with piss in my boots. I look behind me, and in distance I see a figure rise up from under the sand, and nod to me.
Catachans, on a desert world! Can you believe it?
>>43490456
>Yes. That's damning. He'd rather live than die killing an ancient star god. What a shit.
Nah Ventris is actually smart and doesn't blindly do shit for the lulz like everyone else in 40k
>No, he was a commander and abandoned his command, even he realizes he was a shit for this.
What a shit. Him abandoning his command only lead to the Tyranid invasion they were failing to beat being successfully stopped.
>By releasing a powerful daemon of Khorne.
Which only killed daemon train guy, so it worked.
>brought his mutant friends to a planet where they got possessed and killed everyone.
Not his fault no way he could've predicted that to happen.
>Keep reaching.
What a nice argument you have right here.
>That was a retcon that was retconed back.
citation cuz Ventris bailing him out with the shard is still canon and so is the fact that he didn't end M'kar the first time. And M'kar is not stronger than Mortarion. M'kar was just another Dark Apostle who got daemonhood out of pity. Mortarion was a primarch who became a daemon primarch.
>Ventris took a splinter fleet.
What? Leviathan's the largest Tyranid fleet to hit the Milky Way. Leviathan used all the knowledge from the first (Behemoth) and second (Kraken) time to hit even harder this third time. No excuses for what happened on Ichar since that was the second time they hit.
>And is a well recognized master of tactics and strategy, unlike Ventris.
Should've lead the Ultramar defense then, no? Oh wait, Ventris was the leader!
>>43490748
>Nah Ventris is actually smart and doesn't blindly do shit for the lulz like everyone else in 40k
Letting an ancient evil go for no reason means he more blind and stupid than anyone else. Or infinitely more selfish.
>What a shit. Him abandoning his command only lead to the Tyranid invasion they were failing to beat being successfully stopped.
The Kill team did that, his place as commanding officer was with his men. He could have elected to send any number of Marines in his stead.
>Not his fault no way he could've predicted that to happen.
If only he could have been smart enough to realize bringing dangerous and unstable mutants to the Imperium was bad.
>citation cuz Ventris bailing him out with the shard is still canon
Nope, Ventris is no longer mentioned in the events.
>so is the fact that he didn't end M'kar the first time.
This is true, because Daemons don't die easily.
>And M'kar is not stronger than Mortarion.
He is. Draigo defeated Mortarion with a single blow, without the Titansword. M'kar was able to fight him to a stand still for a long time, and that was when Draigo had the Titansword.
>What? Leviathan's the largest Tyranid fleet to hit the Milky Way.
Are you an idiot? It was a splinter fleet, Ventris did not take all of Leviathan. Behemoth moved as a singular fleet, and Kraken was split laregly in two.
>No excuses for what happened on Ichar since that was the second time they hit.
No excuses need be made for what happened on Ichar, the Ultramarines dominated there.
>Should've lead the Ultramar defense then, no? Oh wait, Ventris was the leader!
Calgar leads all of Ultramar. He is Lord Macragge.
>>43488007
I am an idiot. Of course it is Sebastian Thor
The badass motherfucker that just wouldn't stop until Big E walked among the living again.
If I lived in the 40k setting, I would sure as shit be a Thorian. Half the people on my list are Thorians.
Ragnar Blackmane because plot armor
>all these calgar dickriders
>with arguments that are essentially "CALGAR PUNCH REAL GOOD"
Malcador the Sigillite, motherfuckers.
The guy that founded the Inquisition.
The ONLY goddamned reason the Imperium is still standing.
The ONE unifying authority in all the Imperium
The men and women who work EVERY DAMNED MINUTE of EVERY DAMNED DAY to make sure the prancing posies of the Marine Chapters STILL HAVE A DAY JOB TOMORROW.
And this Champion of Imperial Justice started it all.
Known as Malcador the Hero, by decree of Big E.
First Lord of Terra
Grand Master of Assassins
Founder of the Administratum
Monstrously powerful psyker
But sure, I bet Calgar and Sanguinus are real tough. *snicker*
>>43491479
>Warrior.
>>43490984
>Letting an ancient evil go for no reason means he more blind and stupid than anyone else. Or infinitely more selfish.
Letting it go so it won't cause harm makes sense though.
>The Kill team did that, his place as commanding officer was with his men. He could have elected to send any number of Marines in his stead.
Considering a lot of how that plan worked involved Ventris improvising using his skills, yeah Ventris needed to be there. What happened there is not a question of shit being done but a question of loyalty, and we are talking about shit being done.
>If only he could have been smart enough to realize bringing dangerous and unstable mutants to the Imperium was bad.
Before they hit that planet, the Unfleshed were Emperor worshiping nice guys. You're pulling Matt Ward Greyknight logic here.
>Nope, Ventris is no longer mentioned in the events.
Wait what? Again when did this happen? Calgar couldn't have permakilled M'kar without the shard, and Ventris got the shard to him.
>He is. Draigo defeated Mortarion with a single blow, without the Titansword. M'kar was able to fight him to a stand still for a long time, and that was when Draigo had the Titansword.
As mentioned before Draigo's fluff has too many inconsistencies to be taken seriously.
>Are you an idiot? It was a splinter fleet, Ventris did not take all of Leviathan. Behemoth moved as a singular fleet, and Kraken was split laregly in two.
Ventris' plan was much more effective than how the rest of Leviathan was destroyed. Hell his plan was more effective and caused less casualties than the stupid "brilliant tactics" of Calgar.
>No excuses need be made for what happened on Ichar, the Ultramarines dominated there.
Dominated what? There was nothing left.
>Calgar leads all of Ultramar. He is Lord Macragge.
Should've been at the forefront of the Ultramar defense then. Instead he acts like a little child cuz muh M'kar still alive. Ultramar won out largely cuz of Ventris not because of Calgar
>>43491598
>Letting it go so it won't cause harm makes sense though.
But by letting it go it causes great harm.
>Considering a lot of how that plan worked involved Ventris improvising using his skills, yeah Ventris needed to be there.
Nope, in fact the opposite. Imporv just proves he has no plan.
>Before they hit that planet, the Unfleshed were Emperor worshiping nice guys.
They were Chaos tainted mutants who were only ever nice to Uriel to start with because he smelled like them and he lied to them.
>Wait what? Again when did this happen? Calgar couldn't have permakilled M'kar without the shard, and Ventris got the shard to him.
Codex Space Marines. No fluff says Calgar perma-killed M'kar except retconned McNeil trash.
>As mentioned before Draigo's fluff has too many inconsistencies to be taken seriously.
If you keep denying valid fluff then you really should stop arguing about fluff.
>Ventris' plan was much more effective than how the rest of Leviathan was destroyed. Hell his plan was more effective and caused less casualties than the stupid "brilliant tactics" of Calgar.
No it wasn't. And again, Ventris stood up to a splinter fleet, Calgar took on all of Behemoth and half of Kraken.
>Dominated what?
The Tyranids.
>Should've been at the forefront of the Ultramar defense then. Instead he acts like a little child cuz muh M'kar still alive. Ultramar won out largely cuz of Ventris not because of Calgar
Nope, even in that shitty story the Bloodborn arebeing empowered by M'kar. Beating him is the best way to win. Certainly better than a shitty feud with some Iron Chump.
>>43491584
He waged war. Pretty sure that makes him plenty warrior.
>>43491735
>But by letting it go it causes great harm.
>Nope, in fact the opposite. Imporv just proves he has no plan.
Talking out of your ass here with no points to back you up.
>They were Chaos tainted mutants who were only ever nice to Uriel to start with because he smelled like them and he lied to them.
Ignoring the part where they worshiped the Emperor and loved the shit out of him.
>Codex Space Marines. No fluff says Calgar perma-killed M'kar except retconned McNeil trash.
M'kar is canon dead though cuz of Ventris mentioning his real name and then throwing the shard of erebus to Calgar who stabs it through him true deathing him. None of this has been retconned.
>If you keep denying valid fluff then you really should stop arguing about fluff.
>Draigo fluff
>Valid
Do you know the meaning of the word valid? Fluff surrounding Draigo is anything but valid.
>No it wasn't. And again, Ventris stood up to a splinter fleet, Calgar took on all of Behemoth and half of Kraken.
Poisoning the source of a particular group of Tyranids' power stopping them vs generic military tactics which proportionally had a higher loss rate. If you really think the second option is better you're blindly arguing at this point (which I guess is typical of Calgarfags).
>The Tyranids.
Could've been easy exterminatus as well at that point cuz they did an awful job protecting those people.
>Nope, even in that shitty story the Bloodborn arebeing empowered by M'kar. Beating him is the best way to win. Certainly better than a shitty feud with some Iron Chump.
Calgar couldn't have beat M'kar without Ventris bailing him out with True Name and giving him the McGuffin that can true death. And Honsou is much more successful than M'kar ever was don't you dare call him Iron Chump the guy's an Iron Genius.
>>43491826
>casters are warriors
There's a reason all the people being listed so far, including the Emperor, used prominent melee weapons.
>>43492090
>Talking out of your ass here with no points to back you up.
What? You think an escaped C'tan shard will cause no harm? You thaink that improv constitutes a plan?
>Ignoring the part where they worshiped the Emperor and loved the shit out of him.
Not ignoring it at all, it's simply not relevant. They were dangerous and unstable mutants.
>M'kar is canon dead though cuz of Ventris mentioning his real name and then throwing the shard of erebus to Calgar who stabs it through him true deathing him. None of this has been retconned.
Retconned in codex space marines. Ventris plays no part and M'kar is not permanently killed.
>Do you know the meaning of the word valid? Fluff surrounding Draigo is anything but valid.
But it's perfectly valid. Do you have anything to say otherwise other than your ass?
>Poisoning the source of a particular group of Tyranids' power stopping them vs generic military tactics which proportionally had a higher loss rate. If you really think the second option is better you're blindly arguing at this point (which I guess is typical of Calgarfags).
That wasn't even Ventris' strategy, he just went along with it. It's also one use, and was wasted on a small splinter fleet. Calgar manages to defeat Hive Fleets with conventional tactics. Far superior to one shot weapons.
>Could've been easy exterminatus as well at that point cuz they did an awful job protecting those people.
Never had a chance to protect the people. Space travel can take some time.
>Calgar couldn't have beat M'kar without Ventris bailing him out with True Name and giving him the McGuffin that can true death.
Yes he could. He beat him before on the Starfort. He will beat him again.
>And Honsou is much more successful than M'kar ever was
Even in McNeil's own shitty story, Bitchsou got usurped by M'kar easily.
>>43467821
If we are talking fluff, I'll always go with Commander Dante. I love the idea that the other chapter masters involved in the 2nd war of Armageddon passed the honor to him. Dante strikes me as more of a great general than a front line commander. I've had good luck with him on the tabletop in close combat and challenges, but that also may be the way I play him. He is my Chapter Master, so understand that I'm biased. Rules wise Calgar is a beast- without even looking at the stats, his point cost alone would suggest a huge gap between him and Dante
>>43487586
It'd be hard to argue that it's not mephiston, he's been statted close to a primarch in almost every edition and his point value is huge.
Okay, just for the sake of curiosity.
Let's say average Psyker is: 1.
What's Malcador at?
Where's Magnus, then?
What about the Emps?
>>43467651
They're not even close to the best, they're just the best equipped, funded, and supported due to the entire fucking fiefdom and the dozens of successor chapters given to them. The only reason they have any of that is because while everyone else was fighting in the largest battle in human history Girly and his Bluemen were swinging dicks with Lorgar in some smelly caves.
Then when Girly was writing his codex he decided to play favorites.
>>43492300
Nigga I am too high to skub this shit right now. So Imma let you go. Point is, Calgar sucks. Ventris doesn't.
>>43492825
I've proved otherwise.
>>43492902
No, you've *said* otherwise, you've *proven* nothing. Opinions aren't proofs son, one day you'll have to learn this
>>43493023
Nope, it's been proved here:
>Mankind boasts many heroes, men of purpose and dedication without whom the Imperium would crumble. Yet even among their ranks there is a man whose nobility overshadows all others. His name is Marneus Calgar, Master of the Ultramarines and Lord of Macragge. He leads the Ultramarines in battle if and when he is required, his mere presence inspiring his troops to great acts of valour and courage. It is here, in the eye of the storm, that Marneus Calgar's titanic might is truly realised. He is a God of War and he will crush all before him, for none can stand before the greatest warrior of the Imperium.
Does Ventris have anything similar?
I thought not.
Behold, it is I, the greatest warrior in the Imperium currently alive. Lion for Warmaster of Great Crusade 2.0: Crusade Harder.
>>43493046
That's bullshit nigga. All talk no action type shit.
Ventris has a fuck ton of books I can't put them into one post.
>>43493105
>That's bullshit nigga.
If you think canon is bullshit maybe you shouldn't try to discuss fluff.
G R E A T E S T O F T H E M A L L A N D C U R R E N T L Y A L I V E
I think he's the one with the helmet.
>>43493127
But that's not fluff. Fluff is what actually happens. That shit is just some summary stuff. Don't gimme this you shouldn't try to discuss fluff shit. Show, don't tell baby.
>>43493175
>But that's not fluff.
Yes it is.
Please stop creating your own definitions.
Calgar is objectively best and certainly better than Ventris.
I claim this thread in the name of the Lion, and Caliban.
>>43493205
That's not how opinions work nig nog.
>>43493222
It's not an opinion, it's canon.
An opinion would be "Ventris is a faggot."
>>43465571
I'd say someone who's able to carve into a Primarch's heart deserves the title.
This thread needs more shining examples of loyalty.
>>43470760
I like guard because my mere human and tank army fucking wrecks most smaller elite armies aside from Necrons. And counters horde armies all the same.
I like the idea of humans working together with nothing aside from working together and a shit ton of tanks and raw firepower.
Did I mention the fuck ton of tanks?
Do you know how much fun it is to literally drown an opposing army in bodies and tanks?
>>43493260
That's not canon. That's a summary statement written for a book. Bruh, okay bear with me for a second. Like you need to open your perspectives and look at it differently. Then you'll realize that there's a difference between what the writers may have intended and what actually happened. Cyclops Was Right
>>43493780
>That's not canon.
Yes it is.
You don't get to decide what is not canon.
>>43493799
nor do you
Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready to Dangle?!
>>43493931
But GW does.
What they write is canon.
What they wrote was
>Mankind boasts many heroes, men of purpose and dedication without whom the Imperium would crumble. Yet even among their ranks there is a man whose nobility overshadows all others. His name is Marneus Calgar, Master of the Ultramarines and Lord of Macragge. He leads the Ultramarines in battle if and when he is required, his mere presence inspiring his troops to great acts of valour and courage. It is here, in the eye of the storm, that Marneus Calgar's titanic might is truly realised. He is a God of War and he will crush all before him, for none can stand before the greatest warrior of the Imperium.
Does Ventris have anything similar?
I thought not.
>>43467693
>are reason why nids came to galaxy.
Wait what, I've never heard about this before. Can someone give me a tldr on this?
>>43487740
try this one
>>43493975
Because he's just joking. Although the Ultramarines were the first real contact with the Tyranids, other than the lost space station and worlds beyond Ultramar.
The real reason the Tyranids are here is suspected to be the light of the Astronomicon.
>>43465571
Can't say for crunch & even the fluff is arguable...but I think this guy who's been supposedly hiding ON TERRA for 10,000 years might be the biggest unsung badass...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBAeS5t5nc
>Biggest badass in the Imperium.
The last, lone Lamenter, standing atop a hill with a human settlement behind him, and an endless horde of xenos to the front, not giving a fucking inch.
