Nid players are the fucking worst, always complaining about how shit their codex is when its a top tier army just below eldar and tau.
Majority of their models work perfectly and some are retardedly good (flyrants)
Now with rumours of a genestealer cult will we still get whiny nid kids?
Oh look, it's that thread again.
>>39664124
If they are so underpowered and weak then howcome they win a lot of matches and tournaments?
>>39664096
Having a small handful of semi decent units alongside a codex full of awful units does not make them top tier
>>39664096
having an army where you can have 459 different unit/equipment combinations, but only having 4 of them not fold like wet paper in a hurricane is a reason enough to bitch
>>39664587
I am fully expecting the upcoming dominatrix to be more expensive than a wraithknight and half as good
I always hear people bitch about eldar, orks, nids and tau, but nobody ever mentions space marines or guard.
Where do they currently stand?
>>39664598
WK is fucking retarded anyway, it's almost half the point cost of an IK and way better.
>>39664618
Isnt it the same price as the swarmlord? But its stats are better in almost every way, has D ranged attacks, is faster moving, better save
>>39664604
Solid mid-level books. Marines can be reasonably competitive if they go heavy on Bikes and/or Grav-Centurion deathstars, but by and large they're pretty much slap bang in the middle of the power levels.
Orks and Tyranids, bar a couple of very powerful gimmick lists, are at the bottom. Eldar and Tau are at the top.
>>39664604
>Top tier
Eldar
Tau
Necrons
>Mid Tier
Space marine
Chaos
IG
>shit tier
Orks
Nids
>>39664598
Anyone got a date for this?
>>39664096
>Because you can make 99,98% analytical grade cheese-lists composed of flyrants means the codex has no huge problems or lack of synergy
>Casual games and tournaments are one and the same
1/10, should have not even replied
>>39664096
Who keeps letting this autist baiter on the internet.
2/10 got me to reply.
>>39664757
I doubt there's anything behind this other than wishful thinking. Besides, as wonderful it would be, dominatrixies are fucking HUGE, bigger than anything GW has released thus far
>>39664096
Isn't there a bag of dicks you should be eating right now OP?
my biggest issue with the dex is that it needs like, a fucking Greatest Hits version with all the extra shit they've released. Nids have had how many supplements and mini-updates so far?
>>39664757
Second half of 2016. Don't hold your breath.
>>39664860
Sure they would scale it down to wraithknight sized beast, not as tall but longer
>>39664893
But they already have Heirophants, which are supposed to be smaller than Dominatrixs
>>39664598
No shit. Anyone can tell you that a good dominatrix is expensive. Oh, wait...
>>39664893
Of course they could scale it down but how much could they do it without ruining the beast? Like this >>39664906 Anon said, they are really fucking huge and making it WK size would undermine the model itself.
>He doesn't play in Tournies
>He thinks competitive lists matter in his meta
Bunch of tryhards
>>39664096
I'm sorry that my fellow tyranid players make you angry. I never complain about my nids, and I've been doing them since genestealer cults were a a thing and could worship chaos.
Don't be angry at them, they're too young to understand.
>>39664096
>Nid players are the fucking worst, always complaining about how shit their codex is when Flyrants are a top tier unit just below Wraithknights and Riptitdes.
Fixed dat for ya OP.
>>39664096
having decided to pick up nids for the first time, it was a rather anti-climatic experience to open the codex of gigantic inter-galactic space dinosaurs only to find that the highest toughness of any of these hulking monstrosities is T6. a whole 2 points of tougness lower than your average run-off-the-mill DYEL eldar wraithlord.
it feels like the whole point of playing tyranids is just as a gesture of magnanimity to your fellow gaming group, giving your friends something pretty, interesting or cool to shoot their guns at and most reliably kill whatever they do intend to kill.
you hardly ever get to decide on your engagements and if your units ever reach combat its often because your opponent wanted them to. sure the zoanthrope is a good answer in theory to AV14, but unless your opponent is drunk or charitable, you will never get to use them to any degree of effectiveness.
the synapse mechanic is a bafflingly frustrating and pointless handicap that must be maintained at high expense just for your army to even be on par with their analogues.
>>39665075
>He struggles with Synapse
Git gud
>>39664942
This. Dominatrixes are like Warlord titan-sized. They spawn Carnifexes and shit like Tervigons spawn gaunts.
>>39664666
>Meta Knight Tier
Eldar
>Top Tier
Necrons
Daemons
Tau.
Space Marines with Grav-spam
Flyrant-spam
>Mid Tier
Normal Space Marines
Space Wolves
Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
Skitarri
Blood Angels
IG
Sisters
>Low Tier
CSM
Orks
Normal Nids
MT
Dark Angels
>Nothing but Webway Portal tax tier
Dark Eldar
>>39664096
Next you will tell me eldar is a perfectly externally balanced codex
>>39664096
GOD DAMN lictors are so cool- I wish we had a lictor HQ that wasn't mediocre.
Or a ravener-ish HQ.
I want muh melee nids back.
>>39665144
Fix melee first.
>>39665075
It is strange that swarmlord or the "walking fortress" tyrannofex are still only toughness 6, and theres only one 2+ armour save, you cant even buy them as an upgrade, tyranids who are famed for being monstrous creatures, have the weakest monstrous creatures
Synapse is fine usually, the only main issue with it now is how it suddenly makes certain critters eat themselves if they leave the bubble
>>39665075
Yeah. Its a sad state we've reached. Back in the day a properly kitted Carnifex was one of if not the hardest thing in the game to put down. Tyranids were FAST, a Hormagaunts charge threat range was more than double that of an Ork or Guardsman, and when Genestealers got into CC with anything that wasn't a terminator you didn't even need to roll dice, you just took the other guys off the table because they were fucking boned. Lictors struck absolute fear in your opponents hearts like no other unit ever has before or since. And most of all, there weren't any fucking cheese lists. Every Tyranid army you played against looked and played like nids are supposed to, not like whatever the fuck Cruddaces abortion is.
We need based Chambers back.
>>39665144
I have 3 lictors, 2 twenty man hormagaunt squads, 16 genestealers with broodlord and a lashwhip bonesword tyrant... I feel your pain I need melee
Lictors are also so cool, cool as fuck fluff, cool model, abysmal gameplay
>>39665152
B-b-b-b-but muh hormagaunt spam.
>>39665173
I feel you dude. I just use them as suicide landers for that pheromones rule allowing me to pop a mawloc anywhere I please (within 6").
I'm considering using swarmlord and spamming his psyker powers.
>>39665195
In my opinion tyranids should be a very powerful CC army, up there with daemons, but I feel pressured to take a lot of firepower, which I don't want!
>>39665153
im guessing the reason for the T6 is so that S3 shots, in particular your average guardsmen arent completely useless against in the hopes that gameplay might somehow follow the narrative of guardsmen shooting hopelessly against tyranid monstrous creatures in desperation against the inevitable tide. the reality is that more often than not, the monstrous creatures just get put down far too easy in a single round of shooting.
>>39665282
I heard rumours nids are getting a brand new codex alongside the genestealer cult codex, I can only hope
>>39665270
>but I feel pressured to take a lot of firepower, which I don't want!
Fucking this. The new codex fucked up things like the meleefexes, making dakkafexes the only liable ones. 7th edition fucked up melee flyers while buffing shooty ones. I wonder how long until tyranids become a gun-line army...
>>39665344
Fuck you Nids, give Orks stuff.
Fucking Dimachaeron and Floating Testicle drop pods aren't enough?
>>39665357
When they get Orkier?
>>39665282
No it's because Cruddace took away all our upgrades.
We used to be able to take T7 2+ 5 wound carnifexes. And if we took them as they are now they were 85 pts.
>>39665357
>I wonder how long until tyranids become a gun-line army
We are already there
>>39665170
shame about the carnifexes, imo they should have just made the things tougher and not cheaper.
or keep them as they are, but give them an array of biomorph options to splurge on if so desired to enhance their stats to the point where your opponents would appropriately need actual anti-tank weaponry to put a dent on it.
>>39665373
God I forgot about this, carnifexes as they are now need to be dropped to 90 points, they are just too flimsy and slow
Infact bring back 3rd/4th ed dex where we had biomorphs for just about everything
>>39665373
>>39665381
>>39665395
You keep talking about changes but you're not mentioning any. What exactly do you want on your Meleefex's?
>>39665395
Was there a biomorph for a good codex?
>>39665369
No, one Forge World unit and one newfangled 75 point drop pod does not make up for the --entire range-- of classic, iconic Tyranid units being unplayable for three straight editions you fucking cock mongrel.
>>39665420
Fuck you cry baby, you win tournaments and still have the gall to complain cause my disposable hormagaunts won't be shit.
Name one thing you've done in the fluff that is even remotely warranting your NPC factions existence?
>>39665406
How about the 18 additional boomtown options that Cruddace removed from the 4e Dex when he needed them while doubling their points?? Most of which still have bits on the sprues????
>>39665457
Once again, still not telling me anything.
>>39665457
>boomtown
Biomorph
Fuck autocorrect
>>39665406
For what they are atm, they have no option to take a 2+ save like they use too, No option to increase toughness like they use too, they are slow but that's understandable
They either need to be cheaper or simply tougher because they drop to fire way too easily
>>39665369
C'mon man, no one wants to buy the hormagaunt on roids.
I'll give you that Orks need a major boost, but nids don't need new models- just not bad rules.
>>39665462
They use to be able to increase ws, bs, s, t, I, w and save
Now they can increase their strength with crushing claws, we just want our super adaptable evolving mega bugs to actually have options...
>>39665462
Then stop being a fucking newfag, if you weren't even around for the 4e dex then what are you doing here if not to fucking troll.
>>39665491
>GW hate horde armies
>GW hate melee armies
Orks and Nids cry together
>>39665473
speaking of boomtown
whats the deal with the rupture cannon? its complete shit.
>>39665499
The third seat at the 'Bar of Tears' has been recently warmed by Chaos and DEldar as well.
>>39665494
Insightful.
>>39665515
Drawfag on this shit?
>>39665517
I'll put a request in.
That'll be my new wallpaper for sure.
>>39665509
Tyrannofex with bs 3, will hit 50% of the time
Rupture cannon has 2 shots
So on average 1 will hit, its not a blast weapon either, and ap4, its basically only good for hitting medium - heavy vehicles, useless against infantry and costs 30 points on top of a 175 point monster already
>>39665516
Why do you care, man?
>>39664096
And that is just the rules. Fluff wise:
>Muh 12 galaxies
>better strategist than any one else ever
>older than the Necrons
>Faster and trickier than Eldar
>More poisons and control over the flesh than the Dark eldar
>More numerous than Orks and IG combined
>basic troops and warriors are Stronger than space marines
>More adaptive than the Tau
>more psychically powerful than the Chaos gods and the Empoorer combined
>almost enough plot armor to beat Ultramarines, causing the Ultras to pull a even bigger deus ex machina
>Muh no thermodynamics
>Able to wipe out CSM in a few weeks and are better at making daemons disappear than grey knights
>Even when they fight amongst the themselves, they still win
>None of that even matters because there are more Tyranids than any other race ever, all put together, and they will eventually DOOM US ALL
>>39665516
biomorphs = upgrades
Biomorphs = things to increase speed or initative or weapon/ ballistic skill, improve armour save or give rending or implant attacks or move through cover or armour save or toughness, there were so many biomorphs im not going to list them all off to you.
The basic is
>Tyranids had a lot of options
>Now Tyranids don't have lot of options
>>39665376
>tfw Cruddace starts wrtiting fluff about how Swarmlord rebelled and overthrew the hive mind and introduced a codex of astarties type of manual to all fleets, telling them to dig trenches and bunkers
>>39665606
>Swarmlord, Parasite and Doom are all in charge of different fleets
>Have civil wars over political issues
>Doom decides it likes the universe and doesn't wanna eat everyone
>Can ally with everyone, no more mindless consuming bugs, they have personality finally
>>39665406
>What exactly do you want on your Meleefex's?
Old scything talons back at least
>>39665574
Yes. They were conceived as the ultimate Bad Guy race from outside the galaxy to threaten all the other races inside the galaxy. They also predate the Dark Eldar, Tau, and Necrons as a full faction in terms of real-life conceptualization and codex release, so if anything those guys were stepping on the Tyranids toes, not the other way around.
>>39665671
The re rolls missed hits? Glorious
>LaughingHormagaunts.jpeg
>>39665574
>Muh no thermodynamics
Still desolated because you don't get how fuels work carnac?
>>39664096
Cruddace posting anonymously.
>>39665757
>>39665724
Kek, I remember that thread.
Retards gonna retarded, man, especially king autist Carnac.
>>39665606
>>39665640
Cruddance wouldn't go that far would he? Maybe as a joke he would, but he's not that bad is he?
>>39665802
Who's Carnac? All I know is that he is angry that his Eldar sniper husband isn't reverent anymore I think.
>>39665640
pls no
>>39664207
It does if you're a faggot like OP who only plays to win.
>>39665832
But aren't you fed up with nids having no personality? Don't you want a mouldable army, an army that can be good or evil, play the good guy nids and help save the imperium from chaos... Crudda.... I mean YOU know its the only way
>>39664631
I believe the cost are about the same, but yes, better in just about every way.
But hey, at least they both have a 3+ armour save!
>>39665104
>Nothing but Webway Portal tax tier
>Dark Eldar
Dark Eldar are a perfectly playable mid-level book.
>>39665406
WS and A increased to 4, Scything Talon rules reverted to granting re-rolls to hit as they did in the previous Codex.
>>39665855
It wouldn't be unreasonable to have Hive Tyrants have personalities and to have it so that synapse creatures aren't melted down.
>>39665862
I think WS 4 is too high, yeah it's frustrating but you should be getting tons of wounds and high T in exchange.
I do believe that all dedicated melee walkers and monstrous creatures should get rampage, along with 3-4 attacks base.
>>39665680
I recently came to the hobby, enticed by vidya and fluff, and it's just so baffling that the races fluffed as the inevitable doom of the galaxy >>39665681
(nids and orcs) are the weakest on the tabletop. Really kills the atmosphere for me.
>>39665889
Stick to the video games and the fluff...or avoid WAAC faggots and Try hards.
Most casual lists can beat most casual lists, so unless you're always going up against those lists that do nothing but spam best units in best formation to min-max, then you've probably still got a good chance of winning.
>>39665889
Orks aren't the inevitable doom of the galaxy, they're the bubble wrap of the galaxy that requires the other factions to turtle more and take it more slowly, because orks are all over the fucking place, attacking everything randomly.
Tyranids are certainly not "the weakest on tabletop." The destroyers of the galaxy being on par with the saviours of the Imperium (spess mehrenes) isn't unreasonable, they're both low tier factions unless you play them in a very weird, idiosyncratic, gimmicky way.
>>39665877
>Several hive tyrants of varying sizes wearing top hats and twirling canes, eat biomass cakes and drinking nutrient fluid while laughing about all the worlds they have eaten
>>39665357
... I beat Tau players by being shootier than they are...
>>39665438
They fought that race you hate.
>>39665802
At least at the end an anon pointed out the need of mass reaction for the in system travel the nids have to use
So the discussion did actually move productively
Too bad I'm shit at physics or I would make a thread about the quantity of reactive mass and energy a tyranid hive fleet would need to work properly
Starting from the assumption that the expelled mass is hydrogen or protons they can regain assaulting the gas giants on the corners of most systems
>>39665883
>I think WS 4 is too high, yeah it's frustrating but you should be getting tons of wounds and high T in exchange.
The thing is, considering they can be fielded alongside creatures like Tyrannofexes and Trygons that skirt the boundary between Monstrous and Gargantuan creatures, it doesn't make much sense for Carnifexes to have any more wounds or toughness. They're just not the titanic powerhouses they used to be - and that's fine. They're cheapish Monstrous Creatures that can be deployed in broods and used as brute linebreakers. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as they're able to fill that role adequately. Tweaking their offensive CC stats makes more sense than making them tougher given their role in the Codex.
>>39665945
>Mmmm, cellular peptide flavored cake
>>39666052
This
But still an optional 2+ and a properly working regeneration biomorph would be nice
>>39666077
No arguments there. Making Regeneration grant It Will Not Die and cost +15 points would be a good start.
I'd also like to see the Carnifex becoming the most adaptable Monstrous Creature in the Tyranid book. Ideally, when you decide you want to add an MC to your list, your first stop should be the Carnifex - you look to see if you can make one that'll do the job you want it for, and if you can't, then you start looking at the Trygons and Exocrines and other specialists.
So, bring back all the old upgrades, tweaked for 7th edition. Things like;
>Tusks
Hammer of Wrath attacks are resolved at AP3
>Spore Cysts
Spore Mine launcher with a range of 6"
>Enhanced Senses
Enemy units suffer -1 to their cover save when shot at.
>Acid Maw
Gains a bonus St6 AP2 attack resolved at the I10 step.
>Thornback
Enemy units that roll a 1 to hit immediately suffer a st4 hit in return.
>>39665406
i'll take what the wraithlord is having
>>39665830
>Illic
>Not relevant
The savior messiah that rescued numrous craftworldas from peril and is so respected and followed in the Craftworlds (especially among the outcasts) he is compared to the Phoenix Lords, not relevant?
The Last Hope destined to stop the Rhana Dandra and save all lifekind from anniliation or worse, not relevant?
That's laughable, anon!
>>39666247
You know what happens when elves try to save the world
>>39666247
The Lord of the Fallen is more sniper than him. And anything Illic can do, Vindacare and Deathmarks can do better. Right?
>>39666247
>>39666292
If they do a Time of Ending thing I hope the eldar plan for saving the galaxy doesn't begin with "And then we kill off 99% of our population!"
>>39664173
One word:FLYRANT
>>39666321
Like that Spiritseer did in the supplement for Yriel's Craftworld?
>>39666321
Isn't their win-button committing mass ritual Sudoku to empower their goddess of death?
>>39666366
I really hope that's more of a "if we are killed" and not the "if we kill ourselves" horseshit.
>>39666332
Ugh.
>>39665855
>But aren't you fed up with nids having no personality?
Nope
Give Chaos their 3.5 codex + chaos aligned armies from Eye of Terror codex.
Give Eldar their 3rd edition codex + Craftworld codex + harlequin rules from old GW website.
Give Tyranids their 4th edition codex.
Give Dark Eldar their 5th edition codex.
Give SOB their 3rd edition Witch Hunters codex.
Give GK their 3rd edition Daemonhunterss codex.
Give Orks their 4th edition codex.
I'm unsure about the rest, but that would mostly fix 40k.
>>39665499
Its okay though GW clearly hates elite armies too. Why else would Eldar be so full of ap3/2/strD?
>>39665606
That is the one of the most uncreative, unintelligent, lazy, and unfluffy idea ever conceived for the tyranids and yet I wouldn't put it past 'Dances with Crud' to scribble that in the swarmlord's description in the next codex.
>>39666392
Got to love Ward, am I right?
We can only hope that because we have so many of our rules outside the codex at the moment that GW will release new codex soon.
>>39667074
It's been 1 year and 4 months...
>>39667093
And how long did it take knights to be updated?
>>39666143
Having the fex as basically a "base" creature that you can just modify the fuck out of with biomorphs would be pretty fun
>>39664096
>Top tier
>just below eldar and tau
Only if I spam Flyrants
>majority of their models work perfectly
My sides!
>with rumors of a genestealer cult
It will probably still suck balls.
OH YAY! MORE NEW MODELS! If only they didn't have shit-tastic rules that can get pounded by anything else on the table.
SIXTY MULTIMELTAS
>>39667193
Did you mean: 4th edition?
>>39667207
I look back fondly on those days
>>39667147
You mean to get a couple more variants added to the, what, 10 they have already? A year.
You're asking for a whole new codex.
>>39667320
Current one is bland, crap fluff, art of tyranids being killed, horrible rules, no synergy
So yeah all nid players want a new and fun codex
>>39666328
Just watch out for those 6 0 M U L T I M E L T E R S
>>39667200
smaug fag detected
>>39665104
>SoB
>mid tier without allies
>Grey Knights
>mid tier without Dreadknight spam
Literally no.
>>39667373
Explain memes, please.
>>39667232
I just find it disgusting that reading through Phil Kelly's design goals for 4e nids reads like a list of things needed to fix them now... in other words, Cruddace came around and intentionally undid everything he had done to make nids have a fun, flavorful, diverse and interesting codex. It baffles me how he hasn't been fired. I can guarantee his Shit design has negatively impacted sales of Tyranids.
>>39667624
>>39667679
You'd still find reason to complain.
>>39665777
Possibly an even more punchable face than He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named, who at least looks like a stoner-bro in his picture.
>>39667762
this is a really bad fallacy
>>39665438
we ate ultramar, and marniuses extremities
we tried to eat baal
we ate most of Iyanden
we ate malentai
we ate a couple of tau sept worlds
we ate most of the blood angels on the sin of damnation
we ate the defenders of a daemonic seal, ate the daemons then ate the seal
we want to eat the astronomicon
we don't want to eat solemance though, trayzn scares us
>>39666502
I miss doctrines for my Guard, but I also remember that there were so few "good" ones and a whole lot of shit-tier "suffer for fluffer" ones.
>>39665534
mine too
I miss being able to make a a hive fleet that only used lash whips and toxin sacs for melee.
>>39664651
>>39664604
IG are retardedly good, being able to field a completely stupid amount of AV14 tanks that no one outside of S-D spamming Eldars can deal with.
Seriously, a decent IG player fielding parking lots can be godly strong, because even a full suicide squad or 2 might take out 2, maybe 3, tanks, because getting buttfucked off the field, and then the rest of your army will be looking at AV14/13/11 that pretty much nothing in your army can reliably kill it.
It's the entire reason my local Tau player exclusively fields Missilesuits, because the puny S6 Rapid Fire plasma isn't good enough to deal with vehicles. S7 Assault 2 is the only thing that can actually hope to threaten the standard tank statline.
Also, some of those guns are outright retarded. 3 templates, 20 shots, etc, is completely stupid. People complain about Tau shooting, but Tau can't have this much shooting, on such durable platforms. Their tanks are squishy as fuck unless you jink, which makes them useless.
>>39664666
>csm
>da
> not having them the nods and orks
The new Eldar book isn't that bad.
I played against full-strength Jetbike Scatterlaser & WraithD list with my imperial guard artillery list yesterday.
I was tabled.
But it wasn't that bad.
>>39664096
Having one stupidly good model does not make the rest of the terrible Codex good. Our Codex is so bad that the only good armies you will ever see RELY on DLC and formations
>>39667624
Some guy a while back got butthurt about flyrants and skyfire, using examples like tacticals with bolters and shooting it with 60 multimeltas (IIRC he fucked up the maths too).
>>39668508
No, I mean, what does smaug have to do with it? I get the 'sixty niggers' reference.
>>39668566
The guy just really hated Smaug, I guess (I think there was something about a big expensive Smaug figure or something?).
>>39665855
honestly, I have always liked the idea of the individual hivefleets having their own consciousness and thought processes, with each fleet having a hivemind of its own, distinct of the others, this is because a couple of galaxies ago the true hivemind discovered that dozens of lesser mind's are more effective at developing new stratagies and biomorphs than a single gesalt, so it split its psyche into multiple lesser minds, each with their own idiosyncrasies and preferred stratagies, and at the end of an invasion when the galaxy has been consumed, the lesser minds will begin to subsume themselves until the one mind rises again.
the true hivemind will then perform a kind of assessment of the merits of this most recent cycle, keep the template of the more successful hivefleets and dispose of the rest, creating new ones to replace them, so far, out of all the fleets that have invaded, only leviathan is a veteran of this cycle, the rest are simply prototypes up for their first test, this is why the tactics of leviathan have been so effective, and why it is the largest of the fleets to arrive at the moment, it is also why tyranids fight among themselves, as they are sabotaging one another in a attempt to ensure their own survival
the best part, leviathan isn't the oldest or most successful fleet, that's still on its way, the largest fleet, and the one that hosts the consciousness of the original hive mind, one so vast it makes leviathan look cute a true interstellar predator.
that's why leviathan is aiming towards terra, not because it is captured like a moth to a flame, rather it believes it can use the astronomicon as a weapon against its fellow fleets to assume control of the entire tyranid race to ensure its own survival forever.
just my own thoughts on the matter
>>39667624
>>39668508
>>39668566
>>39668615I WIN.
https://archive.moe/tg/thread/38239324/#38239875
>The difference being that Heavy Weaponry is useful outside of killing Land Raiders where as Skyfire is an upgrade only used for 1 thing and the requirement for it is a must.
>If you don't understand the difference then you literally are the reason that there's a $550 dollar Smaug Dragon with no detail you mother fucker.
>>39668684
I actually like this idea too.
Give fleets having their own strats and preferred units like behemoth and gaunt spam, leviathan and flyrant spam, kraken and carnifex spam, and gorgon with ravener spam.
Would give way to more data slate formations.
Actually just better data slate formations would be nice.
>>39668863
>behemoth and gaunt spam
Behemoth was all about the screamer-killers, man.
>>39668863
>kraken and carnifex spam
Kraken was insidious and sneaky, they'd be better off with genestealer focus.
>and gorgon with ravener spam
Gorgon was about the gaunts.
Raveners/Trygons/Mawlocs were Jormungandrs thing.
>>39668919
>Gorgon was about the gaunts.
Not anymore. Now it was just about choosing different units from the army list.
nid codex is actually pretty good now
>>39669194
In which way?
>>39669194
Lololol okay.
Remove flyrants, then try again.
When I can play nids like I did in 2nd, 3rd and 4th edition, then they will be good.
Gunline faggotry isn't "good" for nids.
>>39669518
>>39669518
psykers
dakkafex
covers everywhere
mawlocs
>>39664666
>tfw dark elder aren't even worth listing
At least you bid players have a build that works. CSM without daemon allies on the other hand...
>>39669686
I always end up with a chaos lord with axe of blind fury on juggernaut
>>39664666
>Orks
>shit-tier
>>39669686
Nid, not bid
>>39665681
Man fucking Trygons in 5e codex were so ace, rerolled all their hits, if you gave them poison that was rerolling wounds against most enemies too, 6 attacks base and you still had that lovely halved-attacks Smash.
What did we get in exchange for losing all of that?
A ten point discount.
>>39664096
>Any useful unit in our codex, with the exception of the Flyrant, can be taken out in one turn by one minimum squad size unit of Wraithguard.
Go hug yourself.
>>39665104
>>39664666
If these lists are shit, then what is the real meta?
>>39670086
They're really not >>39665104 has it about right, except that Dark Eldar are about Mid-Tier.
Any Tier list is going to be subject to some opinions and disagreements though, so it's difficult to get something accurate and agreed upon except in the broadest terms.
guys guys
okay, so theres a massive lack of options, tactics / list diversity and specialized anti-AV 14 / flyer units in the tyranid codex so how about this:
infested vehicles/squads
nid players get to pick and choose whatever from other codexes by applying the old "looted vehicle" rules that orks used to have. adapted for 7th edition tyranids of course, synapse limitations and all that, and includes the option to "loot" organic humanoids too (maybe with -1 modifiers to WS BS and I)
>plop an adrenal gland onto the helmet of a guardsman-> synapse controlled guardsman weeoo weeoo
>>39670117
I thought that 7th edition brought the Orks to more of a lowish Mid tier level, is this not the case?
>>39670146
Would be nice for genestealer cults, but doesn't really fix the codex very well.
The problem is that tyranids don't feel like tyranidds because their good units aren't what commonly makes up a swarm.
>>39665087
>struggling with Synapse
You either don't play Nids or this is bait. Synapse being a problem doesn't mean what you think it means.
It does not mean being unable to stay within Synapse range.
It does mean having to have babysitters around just so your other units do the job they're fucking supposed to.
It does mean having to spend your point on all the things a regular army needs to take care of and THEN having to buy semi-useful babysitters without a bigger points allowance.
It does mean having units like Maleceptors, who are fuck-off expensive when their only virtue is to be a babysitter so unbelievably, memetically useless that noone cares enough to dedicate firepower to take it down.
It does mean having to take Tyranid Warriors, which, while amazing on paper, shit themselves when they see Wraithguard or Forgefiends.
>>39670151
I've heard it said that the new codex was pretty much nothing but nerfs, though I've also seen Ork players do pretty well for themselves.
>>39669537
>psykers
bound to one table, are massive fire magnets with little protection
>dakkafex
short range, can't survive nearly as well as they used to.
>covers everywhere
Yeah, if you like running your 'nids in a castling formation
>mawlocs
inaccurate glass cannons.
>>39670216
Pretty much the only good thing is mek guns and those things are fuck-off expensive when paying cash. Thus, Orks are either shit or you scratch build half their army, which is actually pretty fucking fluffy when you think about it.
>>39669518
flyrants really bother me for some reason
theres something about seeing two flyrants deployed in a relatively tiny force being used like shocktroopers that doesnt sit right with me
>>39670474
It's because Tyranids don't do small forces. They jam the enemy war-machine with their dead and then tear it to pieces in a blood-crazed teeth and claw, not with a dozen flying gun platforms...
>>39670665
Tyranids really should have the ability to shoot into combat. That would let them tarpit enemies and blow them up at the same time.
>>39668180
Agreed, he looks like the kinda nerd that thinks he is superior to everyone and has a real nerdy sense of arrogance while being a total cunt
>>39668684
Im ok with different hive fleets having different tactics and biomorphs depending on their experiences etc... But ultimately I want them to still be a united hive mind force, all hive fleets are the same mind
>>39668684
I like this approach. It helps give Tyranids a bit more personality without having to resort to giving them a bunch of special characters or anything like that.
>>39665855
Nope, thanks. You already ruined Necrons with this kind of shit.
>>39670685
I disagree, I would go the other way.
Make them stupidly, ridiculously good in close combat, and then give them a drawback special rule that lets enemy units shoot into close combat to kill nids, like they could in 2nd edition.
Tyranid shooting should exist for one reason only - to pin and/or slow down enemy units and shake/stun/immobilize vehicles so everything else can close in and tear them the fuck open in melee.
>>39670900
There persistent misconception that Oldcrons had no personality.
That's wrong, of course (picture related). Oldcrons had personality but most of the time they choose not to interact with the lesser races in other ways other than just hrvesting them.
Which makes sense. You wouldn't talk to the crops you're harvesting. You wouldn't speak to the animals you're butchering. Unless you're crazy.
>>39671101
Was perfectly good, anyway.
>>39671101
The living were cattle to be shepherded and culled for the dread C'tan Masters.
There is only the harvest, everything else is meaningless.
>>39671101
The kind of misconception you like to help spread.
>>39671178
What?
>>39668298
Mass fast melee units can wrap up those tanks fairly easily. Armies like mono slaanesh daemons just playing the numbers game will get through all that armour simply by ignoring it and go for dat 10 rear. And they will get there turn two.
> New Guard codex by the Crudmeister
> All guardsmen are now T4 and have 2 wounds
>Lasguns are assault 3 with melta
>Leman russ is now 14 all around with a 4++
>Battlecannons are now Strength D
> Leman russ are 30 pts cheaper
>>39671508
>>Battlecannons are now Strength D
>> Leman russ are 30 pts cheaper
These two are actually pretty likely to happen. Then again, it's an Imperial vehicle so they might go "But we can't lower their points cost, they're not xenos! Better increase the points!" Meanwhile, 295 point Wraithknights.
>>39665153
>>tyranids who are famed for being monstrous creatures, have the weakest monstrous creatures
That's because humans are the real monsters.
>>39671567
>The hivemind reels in shock upon realising such plot twist
>>39671567
>No John, you are the demons
>And then John had Toughness 7 with a 5+ invulnerable save and Feel No Pain
>Tyranidfags want their mass produced monsters to be on par with manifestations of physical gods and carefully crafted engines of war.
You guys are just the worst!
>>39671839
No one is expecting a tyranid to match a C'tan
But a perfectly bio engineered super monster designed as a titanic biological weapon, should at least be as decent or if not should at least be cheaper points wise
>>39671878
This. Tyranids should be cheap in base points, with the option to increase their cost using biomorphs to make them stronger and more durable.
That gives a full spectrum of massed hordes to nidzilla.
>>39671839
If by mass-produced you mean mass-cloned after being pain-stakingly biologically engineered down to the cellular level by a race that has more genetic diversity at its disposal than the human mind can even begin to comprehend, then yes.
Those "carefully crafted" warmachines you speak of have absolutely nothing on the endless ingenuity and resilience of nature and evolution. Throw in a hyper-intelligent guiding mind that is gearing that evolution towards utter killing efficiency and there's pretty much no contest.
>>39669163
Who's gaunts are these? I remember seeing something like these in an old White Dwarf
>>39671878
>>39671956
He's just baiting, same as with >>39671101 and >>39671162 (which are actually true, but they're still bait posts from a master baiter).
>>39671839
>and carefully crafted engines of war
exactly how is that any different from the "carefully crafted engines of war" made by the tyranids, carnac
>>39671956
>muh Tyranid diversity
>everything is just scythes and carapaces
>>39671956
Throw whatever fancy bio-words or whatever faulty reasoning you have. In the end of the day, Tyranids are about quantity, not quality.
The finely crafted weapons of war of the galaxy races are rare but compensate with their excellent quality on the battlefields. This was recently shown in the Shield of Baal when a single C'tan shard spent its time slapping the superheavies and monstrous creatures of the Tyranid swarm as if they were, well, insects.
>>39672033
You realize every gun-symbiote, spore, frond-plant, parasitic worm projectile, microbe and adrenal gland in a Hive Fleet is equally a Tyranid, right?
Also, convergent evolution is a thing. When something works, there's no need to stop using it, and other things will be tuned to be more like it as long as it improves their efficiency.
If hordes of agile, fast-moving, blade-armed, carapace-armoured creatures with rapid reproductive rates turn out to give the most efficient biomass-to-killing ratio, that's what you're going to see the most of.
>>39671839
If we're paying comparable points, we fucking better be getting what we're paying for.
>>39672015
The Hivemind rarely factors quality into its manufacturing process.
Even when it does it comes out short (See: Swarmlord).
>>39672140
>In the end of the day, Tyranids are about quantity, not quality.
They don't need to sacrifice one for another. It's just that they don't REQUIRE quality to get the job done when they can drown something in weak bodies, because individual lives do not matter to a super-organism.
However, if the Tyranids ever encounter something which they cannot defeat by throwing endless waves of chaff at, they rapidly adapt, and create something new and specialized in the role of dealing with this new obstacle. They can throw something tailor-made to be better quality for its purpose, AND in mass quantities, when necessary.
>>39672203
>See: Swarmlord
See: Rule Number One of discussing Tyranid fluff - anything written Cruddace doesn't count.
>>39672213
This. Except by the current rules, we get neither, save for Flyrant spam.
>>39672203
>Swarmlord is 10 points less than a Wraithknight
>>39672203
This is it though, swarmlord is 10 points cheaper than wraithknight, and worse in almost every way, far slower, far less durable, no ranged weapons, no strength D
He either needs a buff or a big point drop
>>39672338
>Implying the price won't go up
>>39672338
He needs to be cut from the Codex and regular Tyrants dropped in points and given options to build a functionally identical Swarmlord or three.
>>39672377
I lol'd because it's true.
Quit comparing the Swarmlord to a Wraithknight you idiots. WK is perhaps the single most broken and underpointed thing to ever be released. Nothing compares to it.
>>39671978
Marco Schulze. His stuff's been featured in White Dwarf several times, as well as the showcase in the 4th edition codex. He had a site named after his primary army, Hive Fleet Moloch, the red and black scheme here, but I think it's gone now.
The Gaunts in >>39669163 are from an alternate army which, if I remember correctly, he was actually asked to do by Forge World, for Imperial Armour IV.
>>39672377
>300 points
>Toughness 5 because he is more about leading the horde than being a fighter
>Loses instant death cause it didn't kill calgar
>susceptible to fear because he is smarter than the average nid
>Save is reduced to 4+ because tyranids cannot match the carefully crafted engines of war in durability
>>39671839
>on par
no, id have expected a tyrannogoddamnfex to snap this thing like a twig and be T10 to this "carefully crafted stick-a-spirit-stone-in-it-and-call-it-a-day" engine of war that's inexplicably T8 to a tyrannofex's T6.
it would take an even greater suspension of disbelief to presume that any form of mechanical system could surpass the complexity of an eukaryotic biological system.
it is a hard stretch to conceive of an analogous equivalent of a watchmaker more careful and involving more gradations of fine-tuning than that of natural selection and evolution.
>>39672567
This... wouldn't even surprise me
>>39672541
Trivia: Hive Fleet Moloch is in the Codex/Main Rulebook in homage to him, and the Mawloc is named after him.
He also playtested the 5e dex and told Cruddace all the things wrong with it and was completely ignored, proving that Cruddace is either a fucking idiot or intentionally terrible to Tyranid players.
>>39672580
Fucking this. This man knows whats up.
>>39672852
Source? sounds hilarious and it gives me yet another reason to hate the fucker
>>39672980
Directly from Moloch himself on the Warpshadow forums. Probably would take awhile to dig it up, though.
>>39671101
>>39671162
Some people think that's Trayzn but I just had an idea who that Cron could be working for.
>>39673101
>Necron Lord calling a Cryptek "master"
Naaaaah.
>>39673190
Was it a Lord? It could have been a Cryptek lab assistant.
>>39672541
>>39672852
Thank you so much I've been looking for this stuff for a while!
>>39672852
>>39672980
>>39673011
Found a few results pretty quickly via Google (then got distracted reading them, but anyway). I assume this is the one:
http://warpshadow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=205737#p205737
>Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:31 am
>Hi Simon,
>thanks for posting that ! I was asked to offer feedback during the development of the last codex. With hindsight that has been a rather frustrating experience because I did catch quite a few of the problems (still got the notes), but my advice wasn`t very influential in the end.
>Oh, how I fought to get the Lictor back into fighting shape...(and obviously I suggested calling the "Tyrannofex" an "Exocrine" - and look what`s hatching now).
>Never got the chance to talk to Phil about that though, so it is very interesting to hear what he said...
Two other posts as well, one from Moloch back when the 5e codex was released, and one from someone else who spoke to Kelly before the current codex:
http://www.warpshadow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=165311#p165311
>Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:52 am
>For whatever it`s worth Phil also had a strong hand in the development of this dex. So blame both of them if you like...
http://warpshadow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=205724#p205724
>Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:29 am
>I talked a lot with people including Phil Kelly himself about my thoughts of the codex and I was interested how and why it was so badly written. Everybody at GW knows that codex tyranids was bad - they don't deny it which I haven't expected. When I talked to Phil at Games Day Germany he told me the following:
_________________________________________
>ME (after some random chat about nids) : Can I ask you about the overall acceptance of the latest codex?
>PHIL: Yeah I know what comes now
>ME: No I dont wanna bash I am just curious about what thoughts were behind the codex. I know many people bash it and I heard sales went down extremely,too. For example the Pyrovore is a unit many people don't see viable.
>>39674365
>PHIL: Yeah I know - and I can tell you that the people at GW know about this. The problem is this: Nids in 4th were pretty strong and many people thought they were way to powerful. Nidzilla and these times upset many players because they felt they had no chance against a tyranid army. When the 5th edition codex came around we tried to fix this issue. The so often talked about balance is the hardest job at GW. Its like a pendulum. We try to fix stuff but sometimes the pendulum goes to far to one side, making an army a little bit to strong or vice versa. All we can do is playtest but there are just to many combos, gear etc. We have no time checking all of them no matter how often we play. Sometimes this is ok but sometimes the result are super hard combos with have not foreseen. To crazy stuff will be dealt with via an FAQ but you know this sometimes takes a while.
>ME: Wow Phil I have to say I am speechless. I haven't expected that much insight. Could you tell me anything about the new planned codex? I know you can't say much.
>PHIL: Yeah, I can't comment to much but I can tell you this: We are working on it and we want to get that pendulum back in the middle!
>ME: Anything you can tell that will definitively NOT be in the codex?
>PHIL: right now I can tell you those wishes about assaulting out of reserve or after deep strike will likely not be in the codex and I tell you why. Maybe you are aware of how little this rule is given to anybody. Many people feel just helpless if a unit just comes into the Game and takes out stuff without having no chance to do anything against it. This is why Genestealer cannot charge after coming from reserve and stuff like this. I know many people feel hard about this but its just to frustrating to many players so we decided to limit these kinds of units to very very little.
>>39674365
>>I talked a lot with people including Phil Kelly himself about my thoughts of the codex and I was interested how and why it was so badly written. Everybody at GW knows that codex tyranids was bad - they don't deny it which I haven't expected.
They knew 5e was bad and then still released that copy-pasted bullshit 6e dex except with even more stuff removed.
Are you fucking kidding me.
>>39674408
>The problem is this: Nids in 4th were pretty strong and many people thought they were way to powerful.
Read: Cruddace whined like a bitch because Kelly slapped his shit around in playtesting, so they had to nerf Tyranids into the fucking ground to shut his ass up.
Anyone who actually played in 4th ed can tell you they were not overpowered.
>>39674408
>PHIL: right now I can tell you those wishes about assaulting out of reserve or after deep strike will likely not be in the codex and I tell you why. Maybe you are aware of how little this rule is given to anybody. Many people feel just helpless if a unit just comes into the Game and takes out stuff without having no chance to do anything against it. This is why Genestealer cannot charge after coming from reserve and stuff like this. I know many people feel hard about this but its just to frustrating to many players so we decided to limit these kinds of units to very very little.
yes. but deepstriking and shooting the shit out of something with no way of stopping it is A-O-Fuckin'-Kay
>>39675171
Also this predates Overwatch and Interceptor being a thing so they really don't have an excuse anymore.
>>39674365
Old One Eye?
>>39675171
i can see kelly's pov on this really
assaulting sort of gives a unit immunity from return fire in the sense that friendlies cant shoot into CC and a single highly effective CC unit can keep chewing through the defenders ranged units (with weak CC) one at a time.
but with the overwatch rule in place these days, gun-lines shouldnt be feeling so helpless as they used to be
in a realistic scenario, any breach that occurs should be devastating to the defenders and not just fair game; otherwise whats the point of risking a deepstrike (mishaps, scatter, etc) to begin with? high risk should be rewarded with high returns imo.
>>39675380
Exactly.
If assault doesn't clean house what is the point of having it in the game when you can use those points to buy more guns instead and not have to worry about trying to get close enough to get a charge off?
>>39670767
But it makes no sense Though. If the united hive fleet was the case, then every hive fleet would be virtually the same, and just using the tactics called for each situation.
I love the fact that every Carnac bait thread about Tyranids ends up with Tyranid players coming together and having interesting and good discussions and completely ignoring him after they proceed to beat him the fuck out of his own thread.
>>39675512
Who is Carnac? I'm new.
>>39675585
A prolific troll who tends to plague 40k, and to a lesser extent Fantasy, threads. His usual trade tends to involve trying to stir up shit between Necron and Eldar players.
>>39675585
Basically if you see someone posting some crap that seems like its intended to agitate people in Warhammer threads, it's probably Carnac.
Particularly if it involves the Swarmlord, or Newcrons, or any of the extremely controversial fluff shit like that.
I actually have no idea how long it's been since he stopped using his trip, I've been on and off /tg/ for years and always remember people referring to Carnac even when he was posting anon.
>>39675611
That's DF.
>>39675666
I don't think he ever had a trip. It was just a name people attached to him since he first appeared shortly after the previous Eldar codex was released, alongside with a trio of mediocre novellas that featured the Eldar getting their backsides kicked by Newcrons. Most of his original material was based on stuff from those books.
>>39675666
>Newcrons
I have a question. If the first Necron codex was a mix between Oldcrons and Newcrons and said the Newcrons wouldn't happen until the Silent King returned would 5E still be a source of skub?
>>39675512
There are a few posts that were obviously from him, but this isn't his thread. The OP isn't written in his style, which gets very easy to spot once you've seen enough of it, and he has no interest in the actual game anyway. Not even enough to troll about it, unless it pertains to fluff in some form.
>>39675666
>>39675733
He was active well before BL released those stories, and did indeed have a trip for a while.He was TIDF.
>>39676174
I've never really cared for tyranid but gosh this model is amazing
>>39672580
it is not a stretch, however, to assume that biological components couldn't match the toughness of machines.
Really, the problem is they're letting the lore guide the numbers. Because no matter how big and covered in chitin a nid is, the mechanized races will always be able to out-armor and out-firepower them.
>>39676378
If that's the case, then Tyranids should be cheaper.
>>39676378
Why would that be the case? If the nids have assimilated any Carbon based life forms, I.E anything on earth, I'm expecting their bones to be evolved to come out arranged as pretty much organic diamond by now.
Or going by fluff, they could literally just readapted their bones and weapons to be anathemic to whatever element or energy it is theyre fighting against. (every subsequent wave after the first of course)
>>39670146
tyranids really aren't zerg, dude. Zerg are more of a mix of tyranids and daemons, the Kerrigan/infested terran thing seems largely based off daemon princes & chaos spawn.
>>39672152
The tyranids are a hell of a lot of things, but efficient isn't one of them. Efficiency would be using biomass for fewer, tougher, more maneuverable, and intelligent beasties, like the famous flying hive tyrant.
>>39679286
MFW. What? Just what?
>>39673322
>>39673190
Not to mention that wearing a living skin suit (terminators lol) seems way more Cryptek than Necron Lord.
>>39679471
It all makes sense now.
>>39675742
Oldcrons are a retcon too (an attempt to turn an otherwise interesting and mysterious race into Chaos Androids), so its not like any oldcron fan has any room to bitch.
>>39679451
The guy I was responding to wanted to give tyranids starcraft-style infestation abilities, so I was pointing out zerg aren't tyranids.
>>39679587
What? I thought the Chaos Androids were what the Necrons were based on in a way. Explain yourself Anon.
>>39679617
No your picture. That is not a Spawn. It Can't be. That has to be a heavily mutated CSM.
>>39679669
The original necrons were significantly buffer and more hunched looking, and they were a stupidly-strong and stupidly-unfeasible unit, 2+ saves everywhere, unstoppable resurrection, and a cumulative penalty to hit them with ballistics checks.
Then they got made to look more like Chaos Androids and likewise became servants of duplicates of the C'tan.
>>39679687
Oh yeah, it was one of the early pics of a Chaos Spawn, the one that Blizzard, in all likelihood, based its original Infested Terrans off of.
>>39679703
Back when they had "We'll be back!"?
>they were a stupidly-strong and stupidly-unfeasible unit, 2+ saves everywhere, unstoppable resurrection
If they got that back, could they handle wraithguard?
>and a cumulative penalty to hit them with ballistics checks.
What?
>>39679722
They did what to base who on it?
>>39679873
Yes, the original necrons would just come back to life each round, and you'd suffer a cumulative penalty to hit them with BS attacks the more were nearby.
>>39664096
The Tyranid codex is, indeed, complete and utter shit.
However, you can make a viable competitive list if you buy this DLC for only a small extra charge!
>>39679286
That infested imperator-class Titan you see in the comic on that pic is official canon.
>>39664666
>CSM
>Mid-tier
