I need help solving a problem typical of many RPGs:
"I scout ahead."
I always hate hearing these words. Granted, they make perfect sense from a non-meta, real life perspective, but when viewed from a meta game-mechanic and flow sense, what's essentially happening is that the party is splitting up. That means one player grabs the spotlight for a long stretch of time as I describe to him what he sees and resolve all the rolls and rules, while the rest of the table just sits around and does absolutely nothing but act board and fuck around on their smartphones.
I know scouting ahead sounds like it makes perfect sense but from a game mastering perspective it's essentially disengaging all but one player from the game. And as a game master I feel it's my job to keep everybody engaged in the game. That's what they showed up for, after all, right?
So how do I handle this whenever it pops up?
>>43904123
Just occasionally switch back to the rest of the party and focus on them for a bit, or just throw something in the adventure beforehand that makes it clear scouting ahead may be far more dangerous than it's worth. You don't need to shrink the world to one player just because they go off on their own.
My party frequently has someone scout ahead, but when we do, our DM often has something approach us from behind so the rest of the party gets surprised. It's never been an issue for us.
>>43904123
If it's an ongoing problem, I can think of a
>make recon fast and easy
Get in, make a roll, and dole out some intelligence. Actions do not always need to be resolved in beat by beat detail.
>talk to the group about the problem, they may have suggestions
You may even ask them OOC to keep recon missions short and simple, and avoid lengthy separations.
This makes sense from a character perspective too--what good is recon if you can't get the info back to the party?
We make lots of concessions for the sake of making our games playable. For example, if a player says "my character has no reason to travel with the party, he stays in town and starts a bakery"--I'm fine with explaining OOC that we are playing a pulp adventure game about an adventuring party, and that is more important than some cherished character concept.
>>43904123
Abbreviate it.
>"I scout ahead."
Let them choose from some pertinent options that give you the results of:
>"Here's what you see when you report back to the team."
>"Here's a sample you bring back."
>"You've spotted something odd about the [BLANK] ahead."
>"You've left some scratch markings on the safer path."
>"You've quietly dispatched the guard, but it won't be long before he's missed."
>>43904332
Doesn't it get predictable?
>alright, dave is scouting ahead, get ready for an ambush in 3... 2... 1...
Except the rest of the players care about what you're describing too?
>>43904488
Not my players. There's a reason I specifically gave the example of disengaging from the game and fucking around on their smartphones because that's exactly what they do.
>>43904123
Intersperse with "meanwhile, back at the ranch"
>>43904123
There's nothing wrong with someone having the spotlight. Players do things like that all the time. Challenging someone to a duel or, heck, even starting up a conversation with an NPC are other examples of times when a single character will have the spotlight. That's fine. Spotlight time makes players feel special and gives the other guys at the table a chance to take a back seat for a minute.
And if people start getting bored, just wrap it up. It's a game of make-believe, the GM is perfectly capable of just saying "Yeah, there's some goblins up there" and leaving it at that.
>>43904123
>i scout ahead
Okay. Perfectly reasonable! A few questions, though -
You're leaving alone? And just how far "ahead" are we talking? Out of earshot? So, if some horribly gruesome event occurred, no one would know to come and help you?
[noisily rolls behind screen]
That's fine - go right ahead on ...
>>43904896
Are you joking or are you trying to give advice?
>>43904914
>Implying that giving the players the ol' "Are you sure you want to do that" is not the most time honored of good advice
>>43905211
For scouting ahead? The good advice is just to not let them do it, or imply that it's so dangerous that they won't?
That's what you want OP to do when somebody wants to go scout?
>>43904123
It's safer if the party scouts as a group. If someone scouts on their own, have them attacked when they have no backup nearby, see how many times they keep trying to do it.
>>43904674
Then you have shit players. Find better ones.
>>43904123
Make it quick and smooth, but meaningful.
Test to sneak up, a few tests to do something, go back.
Completely splitting the team should be looked down upon, and be performed as two parallel events, jumping backwards and forwards as required.
Stat up some sort of small vicious ambush predator.
Make them dangerous to a lone person, but have them avoid groups unless they're desperate.
My players are too scared to do something as stupid as go wandering off alone all lone wolf recon badass. Because that's how the party gets ambushed. The furthest they do it is a room ahead.
If you need help for outside, well, you can teach your players this, but mine do it automatically; they scout, I describe, the player IMMEDIATELY cuts to talking to the rest of the party as if they just got back. Which means the players are basically immediately back in the scene together; the scouting essentially places the responsibility and onus on the scout of 'If you fuck up the stealth or other rolls it's coming down on everyone right away'
Keep close to the scouting members just in case they screw up.
>>43906657
>Keep close to the scouting members just in case they screw up.
This. Stay within 1 turn's movement of the scout, and establish things like how long the party will wait before busting the door down and looking for him.
>>43904361
>For example, if a player says "my character has no reason to travel with the party, he stays in town and starts a bakery"--I'm fine with explaining OOC that we are playing a pulp adventure game about an adventuring party, and that is more important than some cherished character concept.
Why not let his character stay in the town and start a bakery and ask him/her to create a new character who is willing to travel with the party? Characters get constantly killed anyway, so one of them just leaving the group without being carried away in a coffin shouldn't be bigger problem than that. Unless you are playing one of those games where the characters are destined to become heroes, saviours and stuff of legends without trying, since the GM's plot wagon carries them from a place to place.
>>43904896
>I'll just go full retard!
>THAT TOTALLY FIXES THOSE GODDAMN PLAYERS ACTING WITH LOGIC
>>43904820
>>43905394
Fuck off neckbeard the pirate, if I'm going to play an RPG, I don't want to sit and watch some other person play but still have to pay attention to what he does because he's the tacticool loner who needs to do everything by himself and ahead of us.
>>43906630
>>43906657
>>43908418
Sometimes you want to rogue to sneak into a bigger place, for example: to open a gate of the enemy fortress so everybody can storm in.
If the players come up with this plan or something similar. I don't feel that it is fun or right to just deny him, or outright fuck him up for splitting up the party.
But I don't understand the problem. Sometimes one player gets more spotlight than others. You don't see the roque murderboning most of the fights, like a warrior.
Everybody wants to be useful and contribute in some way. I love to play heal dispenser cleric, perhaps he is not a stronk as the fighter, but he is a vital asset of the team.
I feel the same way about the rogue, if you deny him a vital part of his class ( stealth ), then you might aswell make him a warrior.
>>43908684
Are you so simple minded that you cant understand that not everybody wants to play in your way?
With all these different games and settings, perhaps some people don't mind splitting the party for more than 5 seconds.
If you cant contribute a useful post, dont post at all.
I played a game where the DM would fuck me up if I went to scout ahead. Now this would not be a problem if he had told me before hand, because I had put a lot of points and effort into it.
I killed off that character and made a warrior. Had lots of fun until the GM got a new job and dropped all of us in the middle of a campaign.
>>43908684
Are you trolling or just stupid? The GM is describing things you'll likely interact with. Probably things you need to strategize about. Fucking do that. Unless you actually have ADHD and have to be rolling dice constantly to be engaged this shouldn't be an issue.
It's 5 fucking minutes to get an idea of the road ahead. Do you get fucking mad when someone else does a skill check because you're not playing?
Fuck. I hate players like you as a GM. I kick them out of my personal games and deplor them in my public ones.
>>43909278
>It's 5 fucking minutes to get an idea of the road ahead.
Except it's not. It's often so not that short. That's what probably prompted the OP: Whenever one of his players scouts ahead it's probably eating up like an hour of real life time to get it all resolved.
>>43909349
If that happens it means he's a shit GM. It's not problem with the concept. It's a problem with him. How is that difficult to understand.
>>43909379
And the GM asked for advice on how to fix that. But hey, don't let that get in the way of a good flame war I guess.
If it's just scouting, cut to the point where the scouting player comes back, describe what he saw.
If it will involve some sneakiness and maybe killing a few guards, use group stealth checks. The main scout basically leads the group and rolls stealth for the entire group. This means there is no reason for someone to scout ahead alone and it's better for the party to be together when scouting.
>>43909442
And I stated previous. Stream line it. If a players tries to forcibly lengthen it tell them no or simple keep it streamlined. Describe thing that everyone will interact with or have to strategize around, so they can start while scouting is going on.
>>43906630
this, create something that attacks lone wolf here specifically because he was alone that wouldn't have attack if he had a partner. At least next time he scouts ahead he'll try to bring another party member.
>>43904193
>hrow something in the adventure beforehand that makes it clear scouting ahead may be far more dangerous than it's worth
IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ALONE. TAKE THIS."this" is the rest of the party
>>43909551
>At least next time he scouts ahead he'll try to bring another party member.
Or the whole damn party. Which is a good thing.
>>43904674
There we go. Your group is shitty, and you are obviously incapable of maintaining control/interest. No wonder one guy always wants to go off on his own, he's probably bored of your garbage and trying to make the game interesting. /thread.
>>43904123
I usually design my encounters with the party in mind. My party knows that. Non of them wants to encounter these things only.
So scouting ahead is usually done very sporadically since it is often risky for the one guy who might fail his stealth check and must survive a turn of horror until the rest of the party arrives.
In the end: Never split the party! is the maxim they go by because my world is not a nice place to be found alone in.
>>43904123
Three things.
First, handle it abstractly. Don't use the combat map until combat begins. That encourages people not to go turn-by-turn exploring on their own. Instead it's still "the group" moving around. If there's something that a scout would spot first, then handle it abstractly. Say, "while scouting ahead, bilbo spots a nasty grue lurking in the darkness. What do you do?" But ask the party, not just the scout. Treat him narratively as if the groups one big unit, albeit spread out.
Second, don't fuck with the scout except in the sense that he's first in the marching order. As DM, if you gloss over the specifics of his scouting, then you should be glossing over the benefits and perils of that scouting, too. He might trigger the trap, but assume that if the trap triggers an encounter, then the party's all ready to go at 30 feet back, but if the trap is short-ranged, that the party is too far to be affected. Don't make the party roll for Move Silently or Hide in this case, just assume (cinematically) that 30 feet is enough and let the players know this is just how things are in the game.
Third, what you're trying to discourage is turn-by-turn, square-by-square granularity. It wastes time and bores the other players. In GURPS, there is a perk called Standard Operating Procedure. There's some gaming task that your character always does even if the player doesn't specifically say. If there's ever any doubt about whether he's done it, then he has. For one point, you can buy "SOP: Reload". Now you're assumed to have a full ammo load so long as there's even a possibility you could have reloaded. "SOP: Back to the Wall" means that in any room, your seat always has clear visibility on all entrances. As an option, a GM can award this to all players as a campaign switch.
You can easily do this in other games to avoid nuisance rolls. Just have it be assumed that the scout is 30 feet
>>43905211
>are you sure you want to do that?
Sign of a terrible GM.
>>43904674
>fucking around on their smartphones
It must be a generational thing, but if somebody kept playing around with their phone at the table, I'd cut the bitch. Hell, the only reason I don't ask people to toss their phones in a basket by the door is that the fit people would pitch would make it more trouble than it's worth... but only *just*.
>>43910251
I've seen that happen in Shadowrun 3e. You'd have the Decker off in cyberspace, the Rigger fucking around with his remote drones, and the magician off in astral space. It stops being a single game and starts being four parallel solo games with occasional crossover.
At that point, fucking around bored is an occupational hazard, and NOT the players' fault.
A sharp GM can ameliorate this, but not solve it. The real fix is in the setting, where you work to ensure that the spotlight is kept on The Group and not just each player individually.
>>43910251
>toss their phones in a basket by the door
So, from that your players will think one of two things;
>"Holy shit our GM is a colossal autist. What if I get an emergency call? This guy must not know what it's like to have people who may need to contact him"
or
>"Holy fuck our DM wants to fuck us. I thought this was D&D not a fucking wife swapping night ... where are all the wives though?"
Either way, just ask people not to use their phones and pay attention? Is it that hard?
>>43910251
I personally take it as a measure of my GMing abilities. If the players are paying attention to the game, I'm doing well as a GM. If they're on the smartphone, I'm doing something wrong.
Of course there's always That Guy who shows up but is always on the phone no matter what. In which case I'll just flat out politely ask why he/she even others to show up to the game.
>>43910649
Others = bothers
>>43910649
I knew a guy who did speech and debate in HS. He did an even where you'd do dramatic scenes from plays and movies. Was very good at it, and later became a real actor.
Anyway, he told me that his best moment ever as an actor was when he was playing in a shitty classroom for a debate tournament. It was just the judges, the contestants, and a few hangers-on. Most people if they were going to watch would do the political events, so this was usual.
So he's doing his scene, and there was a boyfriend and a girlfriend in back making out. I mean really going at it: deep kissing and some groping. Very rude and if the judges had seen they might have thrown them out, but it's high school so it happens.
But then as he's hitting the climax of his performance, the guy stops kissing her and stops to watch him. You've got a 17 year old boy with titties in his hands and a hot chick in his arms, and suddenly my friend's performance was so good that it was worth paying more attention to.
He said it was his best moment ever as an actor. I've tried to capture some of that in my roleplaying and GMing.
