Previous Thread >>79757480
This thread is for followers of Jesus Christ here to discuss faith and the gospel among themselves, and what we can do as Christians to help shift western politics and culture towards sustainable values.
This is not a thread to debate atheists, (please tip your fedoras in another thread) or argue the heresy/legitimacy of various Christian churches.
This IS a place to answer questions from open and curious anons who see Christianity as a well worn path out of degeneracy.
/pol/ is a powerful place with strong cultural influence, but also a place full of Judgement. I urge /pol/ users who consider themselves Christian to consider Jesus teachings on judging others before shitposting. Through Christian morals and values, everything /pol/ stands for and wishes for the world can be achieved. By coming together and making these threads regularly we can shift the negativity of this place and truly turn it into the "path of light"
What makes christianity more authentic than other religions?
Also
>>>/his/
>>79780565
Something is either true or it's not. If it's true it's authentic - if it's not it's not.
Also /his/ is literally cancer.
>>79780565
Because its true.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Happy 4th of July to my American Orthodox brothers and sisters. American Patriarchate when???
>>79780847
/his/ is the approved place for religious discussion.
I'm sorry that they fact check you.
Christ is not a Republigoy nor will He ever be one
>>79779970
>>>/x/ is over there, ya dip
>>79780918
This board is also perfectly fine for religious threads - it's why they've continued being on this board since it's even been fucking /new/.
Nobody "fact checked" me. Mods there will ban you for insulting or mocking people - that's cancerous. I'm not obligated to cater to people's thin-skins.
>>79780969
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiXgOQ9_-RI
>>79780898
Those radicals were given their names and meaning after Jewish influence in China. They were originally just phonetic with no meaning to them.
You are a scary MF
>>79781086
You are a retarded tripfag who argues against your own position without noticing.
>>79779970
Hope fellow Christians over in America enjoyed Independence day. We had ours last month and it's a great feeling.
>>79781264
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_2/j19_2_96-108.pdf
At least educate yourself.
>>79781404
I intentionally argue against any dipshit who uses bad reasoning. I don't care whether they agree with me on other things or not if they're fucking wrong. Peace late cocksucker.
>>79781408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1wOK9yGUYM
No thanks to Papists
>>79781453
Yes, radicals have existed for a long time. I'm not denying that.
But they weren't given mnemonic terms until much later.
Even if they did, they also match the mesopotamian myths that Genesis is so conveniently similar too.
Difference is, historical evidence shoes that mesopotamian polytheism is an older religion and would thus have a more accurate depiction of these Genesis stories.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mesopotamian_religion
>>79781587
But your reasoning is the worst of all.
Here, explain what you think so I can make fun of it.
>>79780969
Orthodox Monarchy is the only God approved government.
>>79781893
Keep telling yourself that.
>>79781972
>being a monarchist shithead
Why don't you go to England if you want a king to worship? We fought a fucking war to get rid of you monarchists.
>>79781964
I think thoughts exist.
>>79779970
go tip your menorah somewhere else, cuck
>>79782181
Oh no. The heathen is upset. Whatever shall we do?
>>79779970
He was a jewish sandnigger. How fucking retarded must you be to believe in all that crap. Fucks sake
>>79781999
>checked
Also, this image is really fascinating to me, but when I tried to research the etymology it didn't match up. The words on the right are the supposed meanings of the names, correct?
>>79781999
>Enoch
>>79782544
Yes.
>>79782544
Use a concordance if you want to try it out.
I was asking in the older thread about preaching
Do you preach? Do you believe it necessary for salvation? How do you prepare for preaching?
I imagine nowadays it's basically people shouting at you about gays and abortion more than evolution, what do your beliefs answer to those?
>>79784709
I don't preach but I think it has it's place and I've seen preachers and priests of various denominations cover far more topics than just gays, abortion, and evolution. I still think it's an important way to teach Christ's ways to the masses but definitely not the only way.
>>79784709
Call sin sin. It's not terribly troublesome.
>>79786055
I'd like to spill spaghetti one day and try a high tech method with custom slides that are on demand depending on the topic and for some humor, instead of the old school loudspeaker and poster
I'm just scared I'll trip up and or not be tactful, I feel like a failure will only drive those even further away from Christ as I would be validating every stereotype and justification they have to live their regular lives, and that seems worse than not trying, I don't want lost souls on my hands
Papists and Russian papists go shill in your own thread
America is founded on Christian ideals from reformed theology, not authoritarian cuckdom
>>79779970
Anyone know some good chants in a similar style to;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGT5oyXnz3I
or even > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAgrCuKwPc
>>79782497
the most unjewish jew who ever lived
>>79786952
How do people feel about Jehovah's Witnesses?
From what I observed, they basically tried to appease people like this anon (You) by instituting their own interpretation authority, that more or less follows the latest of Catholic doctrine doctrine, to be totally honest, but allows self study
It's like people either like it for its attempt of being Protestant with sola scriptura but with the guidance of an order for its everyday function and tradition or see it as one of the wildest what are you doing tier of Protestantism
am I wrong or what
My biggest vice is pornography. I wouldn't say I have an addiction but I do watch it ranging from a few times a week to once a fortnight. I am pretty sure its a sin (based of Jesus' comment on lust). I know its wrong but I enjoy watching porn, so one side of me doesn't want to watch it but another does. Too often I give into temptation. Is there anything I can do to stop myself/help?
>>79788031
>My biggest vice is pornography
If that's the case you don't know how good you have it mate
>>79787644
You're wrong because they don't abide by sola scriptura, and many of their stances are predicated on an idea that the Bible is corrupted, and they alone have the correct scripture
>>79788031
i think it's more clearly a sin because we're subsidizing sex-slave trafficking and prostitution through generating ad-revenue and paid subscriptions for the (((people))) who run those outfits.
best solution would be to find a wife, better to marry than to burn.
>>79788031
Based on the frequency you described, you really don't have a serious addiction to porn. Many people here (myself included) at one time watched porn many times every day.
You have an honest desire to quit and I am confident you will succeed.
When the temptation arises I recommend going outside for a walk or channeling your sexual energy into some form of art.
>>79788601
I have a gf and will probably end up marrying her
>>79787644
Jehovah Witness is basically a cult who have made several false claims about the return of Christ, get very bizarre and strange ideas that are hardly Biblical, and basically control their own followers' lives by making them only have loyalty to the Watchtower and nothing else. They also don't recommend you reading the Bible by itself but instead you read Watchtower literature to "tell" you what it says.
>>79788454
What's the stance of everyone non JW on the New World Translation? You're right, and I meant they follow their bible
>>79788031
this might sound lame but think of it as a disease and that you're curing it and yourself by letting it do what it's supposed to do
it's a habit to break, and from my personal experience with my no fap, 3 weeks is the ultimate limit for getting rid of the habit and not being a normal everyday thing anymore
>>79789328
Generally everyone acknowledges it to be bastardized, like the queen james Bible or the latest NIV
>>79789605
>latest NIV
uhoh
>Bible app
OK phew my easy read of choice lately has been ESV
>>79788031
and the daily scripture is
>for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
>2 Timothy 1:7 ESV
>>79788744
>>79789328
Thankyou for your suggestions. I play guitar and I am into fitness so I can channel the energy into those if the temptation arises
I have come to the rock-solid conclusion that life is unlivable unless there is an Ultimate to serve, free will, and an afterlife.
I acknowledge that it COULD be true that there is an Ultimate that makes its will known to me, and an afterlife. So I am forced to live in this way.
However, I have always thought that arguments for specific religions are flimsy.
Am I doomed to exist in this twilight?
>>79790264
You're not doomed. You just took another step down the path of being honest with yourself.
God/jesus do not exist and have never existed.
Also would appreciate thoughts on this, sounds juvenile but its made me curious. I had a dream about a demon, it appeared in darkness and looked like the demon from the exorcist but red with wings. Its name flashed and it was something like 'pachazu', in my dream I asked Jesus for help and I woke up immediately. I think it was just a bad dream but I am wondering if its something more
>>79790090
I will refer to this quote if I am tempted, thankyou for sharing
>>79790377
But how can it be that so many people around the world have this realisation, and then end up at their local / childhood religion?
I can't shake the idea that the realisation is true, but the specific religions are all jumping the gun, hoping that the answers have already arrived.
>>79790558
My only word of caution on the demon dream is I would refrain from saying "its name" out loud. But you asked Jesus for help which is the standard procedure in these cases. Demons can't really do anything if you invoke the name of Jesus.
>>79790615
I remember being asked that very question by a nun. She asked the entire class whether or not they were right about what they believed in. Boy, did that make a lot of us shit bricks.
But it was a good question. And her answer was that we probably were just kids who were following the instructions of what to believe.
It's one of the the experiences that has kept me questioning everything. After all, if you don't question, then how do you know what to believe?
>>79790461
Jesus loves you
>>79784709
I guess you can say that I do. I find joy in helping others take down their walls against God in their hearts and helping them find joy in Christ as I have.
I guess I feel kinda obligated because other people have brought me to Christ on 4chan. Or at least caused me to look into Christianity with a serious mind. Thank you.
>>79790943
I'm glad to hear this. I did say the name out loud once when I mentioned the dream to someone in person. I think it was just a dream but nonetheless I have faith that Jesus will protect me
>>79790558
i'm not really into this woowoo /x/ stuff.
but, a while back,
i watched this documentary thing, this ufologist guy was interviewing people who'd alleged that they were abducted, and a ton of them were saying that the encounter ended immediately after they said the name of our Lord.
(i don't believe ayy lmao's exist)
probably just a dream though!
the demon from the exorcist film's name was 'pazuzu'
>>79791039
Very good answer. The only reason I believe in Christ so solidly as now is because I searched for the truth even if it hurt.
>>79791535
Yeah, can't go wrong by not naming it. I'm no expert on all that side of things, but you're better off not playing games.
And if get caught up in it for whatever reason, just like anything else, if you ask for protection then it will be granted.
>>79791552
I was contemplating making a thread on /x/ about it but I figure the responses would be very strange. I have heard of pazuzu before so I think my brain was training to think of a demon name but its glitched and went with 'pachazu'
>>79779970
>And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
>Leviticus 20:16
Can somebody explain this passage to me?
>>79792134
In plain English. Don't have sex with animals. The Israelite's were chosen to be the line which Jesus Christ would be born from so they had to destroy all sin before it spread like a cultural disease and destroyed them. So God commanded them to strike fear in each others hearts so they would not sin.
I find the belief that God loves you more than you can comprehend is just as amazing as the fact that the universe is infinitely large.
In fact, I think that the breathtaking complexity and incomprehensible vastness of the universe IS the love of God.
I thank Jesus everyday for dying for sins. God bless you all, and to my fellow Americans: happy independence day, it's been magical so far.
>>79782135
Anyone truly Christian would be disgusted of this place. Don't be such a self-loathing atheist.
>>79788031
>>79792506
The heavens declare his Glory. One of my teachers at Church says he has to cry when he has been researching for our class on grace because God is so graceful and loving.
>>79792581
Can't disagree more. This place isn't where I started, but it has always been the times I've spent among people with various imperfections that have taught me the most.
>>79779970
WWJD? browse 4chan?
How many of you are actual Christians who read the Bible versus autists roleplaying as Crusaders
My mother was agnostic but in the past few years I've converted her to Christianity and she spends a few hours the week reading scripture which is great. She buys a lot of Christian books as well now which I am happy about
![3-geishas[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YzVHGnU.jpg "3-geishas[1].jpg")
***Interlude, The Game will pause temporally for a brief revelation***
In the beginning there was only God, there was nothing outside himself
so God decided to play a game, but there being nothing outside of God, he has only himself to play with, so he plays with himself (don't masturbate)
The Game God plays is essentially hide and seek, (all duality follows the same pattern, good evil, waves particles, matter energy, yin yang, male female)
None can hide as devilishly cunning as God, nor can anyone seek with such Graceful fortitude as God
the instant(which is also an eternity) in which God finds himself and remembers who he is is the same instant in which he decides to forget and play the game allover again
every time the game is different, yet it is always the same
The Game is like a dream, God has amazing adventures, he follows a heros journey in every single lifetime yet he also plays all the parts, every hero needs a villain, every villain needs victims, God plays all of them, even the heroines, but in all of them he has forgotten that he is God so he can play the game with conviction, unaware of who he is,
God dreams, he dreams so far out that he forgets that he is dreaming, his greatest fear is that he will never wake up from the dream, his love is so great that he has emptied himself and abandoned all his power into creation as a dream
God tells himself stories, he hints at his own existence to himself, then hides again to draw himself in, he hides as you and I, as self and other, as divided and undivided
You are God, although you are pretending (have deliberately forgotten) that you are not
***The Game shall now resume***
>>79779970
Is drinking alcohol allowed in Christianity?
>>79795871
take shrooms or acid
alcohol is degenerate
>>79795987
how are shrooms and acid not degenerate?
>>79796286
have you taken them?
LSD & Shrooms = direct experience of the Godhead
alcohol = too dumb to see the prison you are living in
>>79796286
they do no harm and they will enlighten many.
>>79793095
fascinating how the hypocrites stfu.
>>79795871
God made you perfect as you are , when you take anything to alter your default mind it is against god ,
>>79797377
so
>>79797230
and
>>79797330
are degenerates that're trying to sway me from my faith?
God is dead. God remains dead. Stop worshipping your exalted sky papa ya bunch of homos.
>Inb4 hehehe le tip le Fedora le Xd
>>79797478
what faith? do you suffer from scizophrenia? what the fuck are you doing on 4chan?
is that what jesus would do?
>>79797762
My faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Something a degenerate like you would never understand.
>>79797644
>speaking of God in concept has lost most of its social influence
Mate who cares. I'd rather focus on the truth and aiding people towards their fulfillment as people than bemoan social tendencies. And of course in the apostolic faith you find that truth.
The "Death of God" is one thing. It's the result of a lot of big shifts intellectually. That shit's actually the big deal, not this "Death of God" result to come from it.
Remember that this world is ruled by Satan, and that anything that is gained here is but ash. The end goal is the Kingdom of Heaven.
![Whirlingdervishes[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VJhdKZs.jpg "Whirlingdervishes[1].jpg")
>God made you perfect as you are ,
Yes
>when you take anything to alter your default mind it is against god
No
anything arises from God
> alter your default mind
all mind arises from God, all altered states of consciousness arise from God
your reality is an illusion, the flimsiest film separates you from the ineffable, stand up, fix your eye on a point on a wall and spin yourself round 33 times, then plant your feet and look at that spot, there is God
>>79797478
you can know God by direct experience taking shrooms or LSD
>>79798154
>Implying that there is an absolute truth
>Fulfillment
>In the apostolic faith you find the truth
ITT: Christcucks spout spooks until the cows come home
>>79798087
you didn't answer my last question. WWJD?
>>79798957
Jesus wasn't a degenerate so clearly he wouldn't do drugs.
>>79798957
probably wander out into the desert and eat a load of magic fungi
>>79798826
The first statement is circular reasoning, ultimately.
The second part is you having a problem with essentialism.
The third part is you quoting a true statement from me.
Just because Stirner has a funny name for concepts he thinks are wrong doesn't make him true nor your post anything beyond random unsubstantiated assumptions.
Go home or engage in rational discourse.
>>79799094
...and he would avoid 4chan. is that not correct?
>>79790558
I have not been a christian for a long time , but i think there is something with dreams , when i was still a atheist i had demon dreams often they were sexual . now when i have been with no porn for months i also dont have demon dreams anymore
>>79799364
Going to sinful places is not the same as sinning itself. Jesus surrounded himself with the worst of society and those low in society and helped them improve their lives.
>>79799259
>unsubstantiated assumptions.
"Assertions", rather.
I'm sorry, I'm somewhat out of it today.
>>79799501
you are a hypocrite and your 'belief' istainted.
>>79799501
>Jesus surrounded himself with the worst of society and those low in society and helped them improve their lives
so he gave them all drugs, but didn't take them, right
maybe jesus was a mushroom
>>79797478
Don't be a drunkard. Don't trust in drugs. The Bible clearly teaches not to be trusting in chemicals or becoming clouded by them.
>>79799364
>It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.'”
>>79799805
Where in the world did the "gave them" part come from?
>>79799738
Sorry to hear you think that, Helvet.
>>79799259
Sounds like someone hasn't read their Stirner.
Tell me, how exactly do you find this 'truth' and what does it have to do with some random Jew from 2000 years ago? Don't say the Bible, because it uses circular logic.
>>79799881
whole verse from king james
Mark 2:17
How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
>>79799860
but Jesus experiences and descriptions of God are identical to trip reports and hallucinogens
anyone who as taken a psychedelic knows this
http://www.philosopherspage.com/psychoactive-plants-in-the-bible/
>>79799963
do you think they are sober when they see a halo of light around him?
bog standard effect for a hallucinogen, had you tried them you would know this
![Jesus%20vs.%20Jeezus[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/veS9dOV.jpg "Jesus%20vs.%20Jeezus[1].jpg")
>>79779970
>Republican Jesus
Who?
You mean the guy who told you to ALWAYS help the poor?
The guy who told you that RICHES ARE THE WAY TO HELL? The guy that said that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?? Yeah, remember he told that rich man to go forth and give all his riches to the poor and follow him? Read up HE LITERALLY SAID THIS
That man?
The guy who loved handouts so much that he literally made fish and bread appear out of thin air so he could feed 40,000 people?
You think THAT guy's a republican???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHA
my sides
my sides
they've left the atmosphere
This is why people think republicans are retarded, that's a given, but also why they're the biggest hypocrites on earth.
>>79799972
Truth, as correspondence and conformity between thought and reality, is found through examination and rational discourse but can be received in a myriad of different ways. You know full well how many modes of communication there are.
The connection to the Jew 2000 years ago and truth is that His doctrine was true and the church started from His work continues to work on precisely that.
>>79800359
Max silly, mate.
>>79800774
Also I'd like to explore this more because it really bothers me that the republicans are always related to bible thumpers somehow, but it really gets ridiculous when you look at what exactly the man really stood for.
I think if he came back today he would look at every single republican and call them liars and hypocrites.
"You say you follow what I do in word, yet you don't follow what I do with acts. You recite my teachings and use them to judge your brothers, yet you yourselves don't help your brothers and sisters like I told you to do. You judge your brothers and sisters and sit high on your high horse and tell your brothers how to live their lives, yet you don't see your own faults"
How, then, can Christianity and Republicans be linked at all? The only link I can see if using a corrupted shell of the religion, like taking all the straw out of a scarecrow and parading around the outfit in a complete farce.
>>79800774
>being this passive aggressive about a claim that was not made
>>79800774
>riches are the way to hell
Way to misinterpret everything.
>>79800774
>The guy that said that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven
do you even read ?
>Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
>>79801497
I'd like to see your interpretation then.
I'd like to submit the story of
Luke 16:19-31
22 “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to sit beside Abraham at the heavenly banquet.[a] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and he went to the place of the dead.[b] There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.
24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’
>>79801621
lol yeah, read above, things look great for the man who is selfish and collects riches instead of distributing to the poor...
are you fuckwits even trying?
>>79792506
There's really so much to this fact of God's love for us.
>While we don't live in a special place in the universe, we do live in a special time in the universe. In the distant future, billions or even trillions of years from now, galaxies will be flying away from us so quickly that their light will never reach us. The cosmic background microwave radiation will be redshifted so far that it's completely undetectable.
>Future astronomers will have no idea that there was ever a greater cosmology beyond the Milky Way itself. The evidence of the Big Bang and the ongoing expansion of the universe will be lost forever.
>If we didn't happen to live when we do now, within billions of years of the beginning of the universe, we'd never know the truth.
http://phys.org/news/2016-04-special-universe.html
>>79798154
>It's the result of a lot of big shifts intellectually.
namely, a lot of really bad philosophy. cartesian dualism, materialism, kantian epistemology, consequentialism, etc.
>>79801355
Stop trying to sound intelligent, you only make yourself seem more stupid. But, then again, I wouldn't expect any less from a namefag.
Thought only plays the part of witnessing reality. So where in reality is the truth of your deity?
Prove God's existence, or at the very least , establish an empirical ground for your assertions in your next post. Otherwise, I'm leaving your Christian jack-off thread.
>>79802746
I don't give a fuck what you do, but I'll humor your implication that you're interested in discourse.
I'm using the best words I can to express my thoughts. I'm sorry if it's complex for you. If you point out what parts are difficult for you I could adjust so you understand better.
>Thought only plays the part of witnessing reality.
Nonsense. We have a grasp of reality and core logical axioms through empirical study, yes, but we may also grasp knowledge by carrying those axioms and core points of logic to logical ends. This deductive reasoning is the basis for theorems (as opposed to theories, which are inductive reasoning) and both theorems and theories work together in coming to understand truth. Metaphysics and the branches of mathematics focus on those theorems (and their formal proofs) rather than induction.
>Prove God's existence
While asserting Christianity takes quite a few arguments, asserting theism with a god with elements very much like how God is conceived by Apostolic Christianity is commonly done through argument for the world's continuance.
Look at pic. It's a basic version of the cosmological argument and layers of back and forth from atheist dissenters and Christian proponents. Note that the discussion - and the first part of the picture - warn that we're not talking about causation in a timely sense. This isn't about a "before the Big Bang" - in fact the vast majority of cosmological arguments aren't talking about causation in-time but sustaining causation. In the discussion of sustaining causation there are two major views:
>Divine Conservation: That things ultimately do rely on something outside of itself for its own existence constantly. Details of what that is and why that is are derived from the individual arguments themselves.
>Existential Inertia: That things ultimately move and exist on their own and don't need outside causation. How that works and why that is are derived from individual arguments themselves.
Part 1/3
>>79804058
I would say, as would others, that the Divine Conservation position is actually fleshed out and sound, unlike the opposite view which usually has little to no argument for itself but amount to just a denial of Divine Conservation in everything I've read on the topic.
I'll have a proof for it in my next post.
Part 2/3
>>79804143
This is a retelling of Aquinas' old format.
1. Causation exists.( Empirical Premise)
2. Act and Potency are terms that we can use to explain causation: When something is in Potency it has the capacity to become something else, but is not it yet. A fertilized egg has the potency to turn into a chick, an unfertilized egg does not. When a potency is realized, it is actual. To actualize a potency is to take a property that something had in potency and make it actually inhere in the thing.
3. When we find an instance of causation in the world we find some potency being actualized.
4. Something that is only in potency cannot actualize anything.
5. For some potency to be actualized something actual must actualize it.
6. If A is actualized by B, then B must first be actual.
7. Either something must have actualized B from being in potency to be in actuality. Or B is either necessarily actual, having never been in potency before. ( A v B)
8. If the left disjunct “A” is true then premise 7 applies to a new cause C.
9. If disjunct “B” is true there is a “first” uncaused cause that is pure actuality.
10. If disjunct “B” is never the case then there is an infinite series of actualizations. And we can apply 7 to C, then to a new cause D, and so forth. With every being having its actuality derived from another being.
11. If “10” is the case then there can be no actualization, as every being in the series has its actuality derived from another being, but there is no being with actuality on it's own to derive the actuality from.
12. If “10” is the case there is no causation
13. There is causation ( from premise 1)
14. Premise “10” is not the case.
15. If premise 10 is not the case, then at some point in the series “9” is the case.
16. There is a first cause, which is a being of pure actuality.
I can answer any questions you have on it.
>>79797762
Considering Jesus spent his time with harlots, beggars, and the forgotten people of society. Yes, going on 4chan is exactly what Jesus would do.
>>79804200
>>79804143
>>79804058
Nice house of cards faggot. This is implying that reality ever 'began'.
But even if we play with your rules, who made God? Where did he come from? How can you be sure that your god is the right one? How do you know that it was even an intelligent being that made reality? What was before everything?
It's turtles all the way down, namefag.
I'm out.
>>79804471
> Yes, going on 4chan is exactly what Jesus would do.
Holy shitposting.
You Christcucks are hilarious.
>>79786952
This is reformed protestantism. Let this sink in for a moment how ridiculous it is
>>79779970
What would you say to a Christian whose faith is shattered?
>dad dead of cancer
>mom getting older, won't be around much longer
>few friends, extremely lonely
>always broke and struggling to make it on my own
>deeper and deeper depression
>no real hope for the future
>moments when i think of suicide
>can't do that while mom is alive
>she doesn't deserve that
>when she dies i doubt i'll survive a week
>
>where is god?
>why doesn't he answer my prayers?
>look at the world
>he doesn't answer anyone's prayers
>he's not here
>mankind is a damned and abandoned race
>our creator wants nothing to do with us
>our creator won't lift a finger to guide us or help us
>
>what kind of being would make an entire race of thinking, feeling, self aware beings
>and then leave them to this hell?
>>79805125
Well I didn't expect you to look like an idiot this quickly.
>This is implying that reality ever 'began'.
Mate did you read anything I said when preparing this argument with you? I made a point to tell you multiple times that this is not a "before the big bang" - not temporal causation - but sustaining causation.
>But even if we play with your rules, who made God?
God, who eventually is said to be the result of the argument, is precisely what is said to be that eternal ground of that causation. There is no "making" pure actuality or it wouldn't, by necessity, be pure actuality. And as the argument asserts, there pure actuality must exist by necessity.
>How can you be sure that your god is the right one?
As I said, that's a far larger argument that I can't do in full here as it's a requires multiple fields of discourse. The general way the Scholastics would do it would be to assert and defend their rational metaphysical framework (which has roots before Christianity), see how similar it is to the Christian worldview, and through use evidence to assert this is more than just pure coincidence. Either way, their framework asserts the very basics of what is understood as the Christian life despite having to be anchored in Christian history.
>How do you know that it was even an intelligent being that made reality?
Because if nothing were to move it (which is rationally defended before as the case) then it moves willfully.
>What was before everything?
Who knows. Reality could, theoretically, have gone on forever into the past. But again you're too ignorant to realize that temporal causation isn't what I'm talking about despite me telling you this multiple times.
>>79805125
>(please tip your fedoras in another thread)
looks like this guy couldn't fight off his fat urge
>>79780969
2 THESSALONIANS 3:10 - For even while we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
Obviously not a socialist either
>>79806370
Literally Deus Vult if Luther and Reformed theology are right
>>79779970
Does Jesus love me? Even though my father has defiled me and now stuck with a mental disorder?
>>79784709
to preach is to proclaim. talking to random strangers or your friends/family about Jesus is preaching
preaching doesn't require a congregation
>>79786833
you have to trust in the Holy Spirit to guide your words. pray about it
>>79787644
they do not believe in the Jesus as a deity. They may as well be Muslims.
>>79788031
Pornography is either a form of fornication (if you're not married) or adultery. Neither will enter heaven. Look into celebrate recovery.
>>79790264
You will find no "wholeness" in anything of this world. Only in Jesus. Otherwise, you will be chasing dragons your entire life.
>>79807536
What a pile of shit response. This is what happens when autists seize a philosophy.
>>79792581
Who did Jesus hang out with anon? It wasn't all godly people. Look at Paul, he was a murderer, also prostitutes, etc...all were given grace if they asked it.
>>79795396
negative
you are fooling yourself if you believe you are God, creator of the universe. I once thought this when I was on drugs, but it's pure self-aggrandizing pride.
The universe, as we see it, is locked into a certain dimension that has rules...like time, for instance. The Creator of this universe lives outside of these rules/laws.
>>79806370
How can you watch the sun set or a flower open and call this world a hell? I have seen my share of sorrow in this life, and contemplated suicide, but it always passes with time. Jesus did not come to say there is no suffering, as he suffered greatly as you do. We should all do what we can to comfort people, yet Christianity teaches that suffering has value; that it has the power to transform us into stronger, more compassionate and loving people. Keep praying, learn to love yourself as much as you love your Mother.
>>79807659
Yes.
>>79795871
yes, but only not to get drunk
Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
>>79796286
Shrooms and acid give a peak into other dimensions. Trick the user into believing the deceptions there.
Pharmakia = witchcraft = sorcery
>>79807926
>Pornography is either a form of fornication (if you're not married) or adultery.
>Neither will enter heaven.
So God created human beings to have a desire to look at each other sexually, and to experience intense pleasure when watching sex acts.
But his position is that we should not do this, to the level that he will cast anyone who does into hell.
Can you begin to appreciate how inane this theology sounds to someone with an engineering background? If you don't want your creation to do A, then design their wetware (biological software) so that they will not do A.
Pretty simple shit.
What am I supposed to think of a God who would do this? Is he cruel or just a really bad engineer?
>>79808190
Serious responses to your problems had been formed from all the shit happening as a result of the Fall, suffering as a tool for self development and the free will defense by the non-Luther and Reformed crowd. Also, Barth is a universalist. He thinks everyone can and will be saved eventually
>>79797478
drugs and alcohol are just like any other temp fix that people obsess over if they become addicted, which they will given time.
Romans 14:23 - But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.
>>79799094
ask yourself why people take pleasure in attacking your faith anon. Do not ever doubt spiritual warfare is real and the closer you are to God the more the enemy will attack you. Prayer is your strength in Jesus' name!!
>>79799738
Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
>>79799860
Jesus came to earth as God in the flesh. He was still susceptible to demons/satan. Demons can give you visions.
>>79808401
>How can you watch the sun set or a flower open and call this world a hell?
How can you watch someone die in agony and say that it's not?
I am glad there are no Calvinists on 4chan
>>79808646
Jesus was God's gift to the world. If you accept God's grace and repent from your sins, you will have the ability to overcome the flesh.
>>79806370
Christianity has never been one to preach Prosperity Gospel until recently between some Protestant bullshitters. God directs all things to himself, not simply gives physical benefits.
Now there's much to say about suffering and I don't think I can cover it all, nor do I intend to explain your own lived experiences, but I think the most obvious element of suffering is how it exists all around us in various ways and is inescapable. So we must be able to see God will for us not despite suffering but precisely through it. Here's a quote from St. Paul's Letter to the Romans:
>And not only that, but we[a] also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. (Romans 5:3-5)
You see this echoed elsewhere as well. The monastic concept of 'spiritual dryness' (or a "dark night of the soul") asserts that through this trial we grow into a greater communion, even. We see the Christian view of suffering in a general sense be it as a method of growth rather than simple punishment or "test".
Now the manner of growth is something I can't rightfully say: It could allow an important good, it could break your heart so that it be more open, it could be a method of transformation, or it even could be repercussions of sins playing out to persuade you away from it. I don't intend to assume of your situation or God's will.
What bothers me in your comment is you complain about some things you could work on yourself, such as friends. You are a free person and shouldn't simply focus on just things you don't like but how you could grow through them. Often what is viewed as "punishments" turn out as precious gifts as we grow from them.
I can speak to you more if you wish to.
Part 1/2.
>>79808401
>Christianity teaches that suffering has value;
>that it has the power to transform us into stronger, more compassionate and loving people.
It's having quite the opposite effect on me.
>Keep praying, learn to love yourself as much as you love your Mother.
What does that even fucking mean?
>>79805125
Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
>>79809357
part 2/2
As for prayer, prayer is not wish-fulfillment but an earnest calling out for God. It's the will trying to align to the will of God and through it preparing ourselves for what God has set for us. It is a method of meeting the mark to gain greater communion. This may lead to what you petitioned for (if your prayers were ever petitions) or it may not. In either case, you are led to greater communion with God insofar as you accept it.
>>79809241
Really? That's your answer?
"Why would God be mad about people who do X when God designed people to do X?"
"Just repent so you won't do X."
>>79809481
That;s clearly not connected to her head.
Why does she have anal beads?
>>79808646
>Can you begin to appreciate how inane this theology sounds to someone with an engineering background? If you don't want your creation to do A, then design their wetware (biological software) so that they will not do A.
>Pretty simple shit.
But, anon, there is nothing wrong with an appreciation with aesthetics. Lust comes from the will. Our free will is necessary for us to accomplish what we were designed for (love) but at the same time we cannot love without the freedom to chose to do that.
>>79810216
>Japan says this
It's perfect.
Still, though:
>book for a body
>expecting anything serious
It's a Nyan Cat reference.
>>79809357
>>And not only that, but we[a] also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us,
Paul was wrong. If Paul can get permission to return to Earth I will gladly walk him through hospital after hospital, and prison after prison, until he realizes that suffering of the kind we endure on Earth BREAKS most people, destroying their very souls.
>through this trial we grow into a greater communion, even.
Do I sound like my communion with the creator is improving?
>What bothers me in your comment is you complain about some things you could work on yourself, such as friends.
I don't know how to address that in a 4chan post except to say that often the problems we think should be "worked on" are due to issues...health, mental, whatever...that are beyond the person's power to fix.
>As for prayer, prayer is not wish-fulfillment but an earnest calling out for God.
What does that even mean? What am I calling out for? His presence? It's pretty damn clear he doesn't want to be around us (meaning man kind). The way Jesus was treated I almost wouldn't blame him, except...man only ended up in a state were Jesus would be treated that way BECAUSE God walked away in Eden. Curse man, curse the ground, make sure there's pain and death, then LEAVE, then come back in a few thousand years and wonder why everyone is acting like an animal.
I'm perplexed that God is perplexed at man's behavior.
>>79810564
>But, anon, there is nothing wrong with an appreciation with aesthetics. Lust comes from the will.
Nope. Wanting to have sex with beautiful women comes from neural circuitry and hormones that you have NO CONTROL OVER. You were born with quite complex circuitry that would recognize fertile women and make you want to bang them to the point of excluding anything/everything else from your mind. That was designed. According to most Christians by the same God who doesn't want you to think of fucking when you look at beautiful women.
Now I fully admit that I harbor bitterness and criticism towards God for this creation he built. But I'm actually guessing that it's human beings who misunderstood him on this one. I'm guessing he's not so stupid that he would design beings to do X then get all mad when they...do X!
>>79779970
FUCKING KIKE WORSHIPPERS GET OFF MY BOARD
>>79810743
I am in the midst of finishing a response. Please do not leave. I'm sorry for the wait.
>>79809159
calvanist are cancer but they are here all the time then they show 3 verses what can confirm calvanism vs the whole bible
>>79810743
>>79810743
>Paul was wrong. If Paul can get permission to return to Earth I will gladly walk him through hospital after hospital, and prison after prison, until he realizes that suffering of the kind we endure on Earth BREAKS most people, destroying their very souls.
>Do I sound like my communion with the creator is improving?
Obviously not. In both mentions in the capacity for suffering to be brought to us as methods of growth there is still the chance to give up on it. I forget to mention the faith that drives people forward through this suffering. Forgive me there. Our desires pull us in various directions which tempt us in the safe of that suffering and it can lead to failure.
>I don't know how to address that in a 4chan post except to say that often the problems we think should be "worked on" are due to issues...health, mental, whatever...that are beyond the person's power to fix.
Yes, and those aren't the problems I was addressing there, get me?
Problems that are beyond simply a change of disposition must be taken on in more complex ways. For instance, if you don't mind me referencing you again, you said you were in depression. Depression, as we know it currently, is not something to simply reason yourself out of but if formally understood to be a disease to itself. For that, I could only direct you to someplace for physical assistance to help you out. It is a struggle in itself but it would be much worth it.
But even then there are things that a person must struggle with that cannot currently or will not be fixed and my heart goes out to those who struggle with this but our types of suffering provide us with means of growth with or without a way out of that manner of suffering entirely. It is always to your benefit to seek the good.
Part 1/2
>>79813556
2/2
>t's pretty damn clear he...
I'm not certain what church you're a part of but I can only speak from a Catholic point of view (though this understanding of God is pretty common between all the apostolic faiths):
Leaving is not at all what God did. As you see in the Old Testament and finally reaching an end in the New Testament is a growing communion between peoples with God. There is no leaving at all. MORE IMPORTANTLY, the early Christian church and most apostolic churches understand God's creative power to be SUSTAINING and so always there. Basically instead of seeing God as some being in or outside the cosmos, the church would uphold that God is the continuous ground of reality at all times. In this respect there is no "leaving" at all. The vast majority of cosmological arguments deal with precisely with sustaining causation, though they're commonly mistaken all to be about temporal causation (a "before the big bang").
So I would say God never left. The 'curse' - original sin that you talk about - is itself not a positive trait but a privation of a gift God once had for us. This state you complain about with us is us normally. Through work we control our irrational desires in order to be free from vice.
>What does that even mean?
Prayer takes several different forms (petition, praise, thanksgiving, song, etc) so the most basic understand of what prayer is is a heartfelt desire for God (implicitly or explicitly). And by "desire for God" I don't mean we expect an image of God anthropomorphized in front of us or we specifically want wishes granted (which would only make petitionary prayers be prayer) but rather we seek to align ourselves with God's will.
>>79811220
>Nope. Wanting to have sex with beautiful women comes from neural circuitry and hormones that you have NO CONTROL OVER.
Well yes, but lust as defined classically and defined by the church deals with desire for pleasure (in this case sexual) for its own gain which is separate from what you're talking about. Obviously our desires direct towards various things but our will has direction as well and should compliment and control our natural desires rather than be slave to it. The latter is what it means to fall to vice.
>>79779970
I have a question for this thread.
Did Paulo Coelho make a pact with Satan to become a famous writer? His writing seems to verge on New Agey perhaps but god damn if his book didn't help me out. Maybe even save my life. It made me believe in God, I think. Is his writing bullshit? I want to do good, go toward God, but maybe I'm scared that following a dream is going to be a path that leads nowhere.
Also, is the Eye of Horus really Satanist/ the Eye of Lucifer?
What do you all think of the Satanist symbolism that's everywhere in the media (all seeing eye, triangle of power, 666, devil's horns, etc), pic related.
>>79779970
Praise the Lord brothers
>>79814023
I believe in judging something by its fruit. I've read Coelho and found him a positive influence on my life as well.
There are many positive things to be found in certain New Age thought. The problem is people just pick and choose whatever concepts give them the most comfort to believe.
I don't know what to think about all the Satanist symbolism, but its pretty blatant and ubiquitous now. What with ISIS the apocalypse death cult on the loose and everything, things are starting to feel end timesey.
>>79813635
>Leaving is not at all what God did.
It's exactly what he did. He's not here. He hasn't been here except visiting a few times. Thousands of years and billions of people. The suffering, the war, the disease, the death, the people who have cried out for help...he wasn't around. He's not around.
>>79814527
>It's exactly what he did. He's not here. He hasn't been here except visiting a few times. Thousands of years and billions of people. The suffering, the war, the disease, the death, the people who have cried out for help...he wasn't around. He's not around.
Again, the apostolic churches and early christianity would uphold God being the constant source of reality - divine conservation - so it's fundamentally impossible for God to "leave".
Yes, God was not man for some time and was only on Earth as man for a short amount of time but that does not mean God was not with us.
>suffering happened
>proof that God wasn't around
Mate, have you see what happened to God when he specifically was around as man?
I'll give you a hint with this picture.
>>79814527
>implying every single manifestation of His is written in the Bible
*tip*
>>79814821
Don't insult so quickly. This guy has stuff going on. Give him rest.
>>79814023
I am not really in to the satanic stuff but if someone made a deal with the devil his works is not made of the devil
The eye of horus when i was a atheist i took just one tattoo and its the eye of fucking horus as a christian now i should get that removed i think
>>79814885
Yes sir
>>79814527
I understand you're not in a very good place right now, and you're righteously angry. But I want you to know that the simple fact that you're looking for God is a very positive thing. Many people are not even looking, lost in worldly things. You are fortunate.
Bad things certainly happen here, and it is a valid question why a supposedly all loving God would permit these things to occur. One could possibly argue that only through duality can anything be perceived. Sadness is needed to even know what happiness means.
Another argument would be that God knows the bigger picture, that we are much more than our short lives on Earth, and any physical pain or mental stress is nothing compared to the entire song of creation. Jesus said that all sorrows will be turned to Joy.
>>79779970
My faith is stronk
>>79814456
Apparently, not that I've looked into it in any great depth mind you, the New Ageism is "sanitized Satanism."
The danger is that it would supplant genuine belief in God, and that we're in the end times and that Satan is going to drag whoever he can get into hell with him by tricking them into devil worship. Or something like that.
It's no mistake or coincidence that this same media with its occult symbolism is propagating a lower mass consciousness among people by making culture a sewer. I think its a sign that they're owned. I'm not exactly sure how occult = devil worship other than that it's not God.. My best guess is that they get people to attach to worldly things which disconnects them from God. But what do I know friendo
>>79800774
okay
Democrats are Christian, too
Christianity is pretty apolitical, didn't even start in America
