Did Jesus actually historically live?
Im not talking about all this magic shit that supposed "Jesus" did in the bible.
I am 100% sure there were lots of guys named Jesus living 2000 years ago.
Was there some guy that lived ~2000 years ago born of Mary and Joseph, baptized by John and gathered all these disciples and started Christianity? Or is that an actual "story" created by the jews?
Jesus is pretty much a folk hero in a since that he could have existed but the stories of him were blown out of proportion.
Supposedly there was evidence that during his missing years he visited the east.
But once again it could all be made up garbage.
>>75865848
Yes
Pretty sure he existed.
I mean, as far as the new testament goes, the record of things is historically accurate, and other figures like Pontius Pilate have been found in the record, too.
Sure. It's definitely possible. What's interesting is that, at the time, there were all these competing messiahs doing the same thing as he was; gathering disciples, giving speeches, performing miracles and whatnot. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants
Jesus was simply the most successful one. It could be that stories were originally about one of the other guys ended up rolled into the legend of Jesus.
His name was Yehoshua and he basically rebelled against his own kind (jews) and kicked serious ass once he realized that they are full of shit. His mother's name was Mariam and he had his own kids.
Maybe.
>>75865848
we wuz god n shet
Yes
There are literally no accredited historians who would suggest that he wasn't real.
>>75865848
yes. historical records refer to him as "christos".
>>75867251
so these historians also wrote on their journals how some dude walked on water too?
>>75865848
Of course he lived. The Biblical narrative was written by common men of the time. They weren't trained journalists, their narrative shouldn't be dismissed out of hand simply because it doesn't meet 21st century standards.
His existence is almost universally agreed upon because of Tacitus and Josephus and that sultan guy.
>>75867342
The discussion is about his existence, not about his divinity.
Yes he did exist.
He also rose from the grave, but apostates on /pol/ will deny this.
>>75865848
>Did Jesus actually historically live?
Yes, we have indirect refrences to that faggot in our saga/sagns.
Around year 0, the romans made peace with us up here. We named this the Frode peace, after King Frode of Denmark. It was pretty much constant battle to tare that shithole called Raumaborg down. Fucking jews..
>>75867702
What's Raumaborg?
>>75867251
>Appeal to authority
>Appeal to authority in the humanities
This is why history majors flip burgers and rightfully so
>>75865848
Yes. The Bible contains legitimate history.
>>75867875
the cesspool of degenerates, child and animal fuckers at that time, called Rome.
> he is "Christian"
> in a right-wing board concerned about civilizational survival
> following a religion that makes earthly concerns pointless
> following a religion which promise renders concerns about arabs taking over Europe pointless, insofar the Jewish War God will destroy the World the same
> following a religion which prophecy is that their followers will be oppressed and destroyed before the return of the Jewish War God, making defense of such civilization either pointless or outright anti-divine
> thinking that martyrhood-obsessed early christians, self-flagellating monks, self-castrating cathars, life-denying puritans, apocalypse-obssesed zionists, Jonestown and the current Pope and Churches actually have it wrong, and christian morality actually means the opposite of everything that Jesus said or did.
> thinking that Crusaders were "real christians" even when they pillaged and destroyed christian towns, including Constantinople itself
> following a religion that condemns the world's riches, and allowed the Jews to become the sole financing managers during the Middle Ages
> following a religion that eternally chains the fate to the white man to the jew, and turns otherwise healthy whites into demented fans of Israel
>>75865848
He was a folk fiction or a composite of other Jews who resisted the Romans or both. Jesus (Joshua) was the name of the Jew who supposedly conquered Caanan and was also supposedly the name of the first Priest of the Jewish Temple. Those Jesuses are absolutely fictions. The name means Yahweh Saves. It makes sense that when the Jews dreamed about a Messiah to reclaim the land from the Romans and cleanse the Temple of corruption, that his name might be Jesus.
My theory is that there were stories about Jesus in Palestine, a fiery Zealot type out for holy vengeance and Roman blood. It was Hellenized Alexandrian Jews who spun these stories for their own benefit by pretending he was pacifistic West-friendly philosopher faith-healer and all the other crap, which was basically Jewish taqiyya. It's exactly like how Jewish media in New York lies about and spins what they do in Israel or how Muslims lie about what they are about.
Gentile cucks who bought the bullshit expanded upon the Gnostic and Mystery qualities. Jesus became anti-Semitic' after Jewish behavior made it impossible for a good Roman citizen to practice a quasi-Judaism. Instead of just dumping the religion, they just retconned it, and lied essentially in the same mode they had been lied to.
>>75867251
Dr. Richard Carrier.
>>75868126
Kek, thanks for the new pasta.
>>75867944
O I am laffin
>>75868126
>a composite of other Jews who resisted the Romans
But He did not resist the Romans. He very clearly tells His followers to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars," and refuses to be drawn into political debate when opponents try to entrap Him.
His Kingdom is not of this world, His concerns not with who governs.
DIdi some research on this ... Jesus Christos(:greek: Messiah)
was a Flavian Caesars attempt to suppress the wild warlike Jews of Palestine from the inside usimng their own prophecies and scriptural style. Jesus's journey paralells the conquests of TItus (one of the trinity caesars) a mixtur eof Pagan Mithras and Greakk and ROman esoteric knowlegde were carefully weaved by Jew turncoat scholar Josephus and hordes of religious scribes.
Essentially was war propaganda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOb5vrUts9A
>>75866803
>. It could be that stories were originally about one of the other guys ended up rolled into the legend of Jesus.
Or, contrariwise, that stories about Jesus were borrowed by followers of other Teachers, to make them look more comparable to Him as His story was becoming dominant..
No. You can actually trace how the story got embellished as time went on.
The oldest gospel, Mark, does not have anything about the virgin birth and only a very basic version of the resurrection story.
The 3 certain things we know about him is that he preached Christianity, that he was baptized by John the Baptist and that he was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.
Nobody denies this except some atheists that really want to somehow disprove Christianity by making up lies.
Whoever tries to argue with me - read a book.
>>75865848
nah, doubt it
>>75868817
Also, another certain thing is that he existed
>>75865848
yes, but did caesar exist do you have proof like a video of him ?
>>75865848
Yes.
The lack of written evidence from the time probably comes from the fact that he wasn't well know public figure from the time.
For example.... show me evidence that your great*x grandfather from 20 generations ago existed.
You know he existed because you exist. But can you prove it? Unless he was famous, probably not.
>>75865848
No, I don't think so. The earliest writings that mention Jesus never claim he was a man who lived on earth. The early church fathers, in letters to pagans, argued that their idea of Jesus was no different from what the pagans believed about the sons of Apollo. The earlier books of the new testament include passages that also indicate the earliest conception of Jesus was as a god figure existing in a divine realm, not a human being who had lived on earth at any point: "If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law." Hebrews 8:4. That is, according to Paul, Jesus was not someone who existed on earth as a man, but was always a divine being. All the gospels that mention Jesus being on earth, interacting with people, performing miracles, etc. all date much later and disagree as to when Jesus lived by hundreds of years, despite this having been someone who lived and died, on some accounts, very recently.
Check out The God Who Wasn't There. http://youtu.be/ik7GRQ9hoVY
Although the sue of negative evidence is always tricky, I find it at least interesting to look at the question of whether or not He existed by looking at attempts made to discredit Him and Christianity during those stretches of Roman history where Christianity was being suppressed.
If Jesus never actually lived, then the easiest way to discredit the Faith would have been to say. "Dear Romans, as your Emperor, I have just gone into the tablinarium over there and dug out the complete records of the Procuratorship of Pontius Pilate, and would you look at that? No such trial ever happened! And here are the census data from Judea, as it was then known, for the time in question, and the tax records -- and the guy simply did not even exist.
They never did that, though they went to great lengths to dispute whether miracles could really happen, or to show that His teachings were foolish, etc.
Today, we no longer have that option -- the records that would either show Jesus existed or in which He would be conspicuous by His absence no longer exist.
>>75869016
Which Caesar?
>>75869054
Me existing is proof that my great grandfather * 20 existed
Jesus didn't have any child, so the same argument does not apply
>>75868817
Can you provide proof of any of those claims? no documents regarding Pilate say shit about jesus or anything in the bible.
>>75869095
>All the gospels that mention Jesus being on earth, interacting with people, performing miracles, etc. all date much later and disagree as to when Jesus lived by hundreds of years
Would be curious to learn what you mean by the bit about "disagreeing about when Jesus lived by hundreds of years." Can you sahre an example of one of the Gospels indicting Jesus lived during any time other than during the reigns of Augustus and Tiberius?
>>75869126
You seem to assume that the records of Pontius Pilate are recoverable at all
>>75869141
Caesar, the adoptive father of Augustus.
>>75868013
>Me? Nah m8 I don't care about Gawd and stuff
>Proceeds to spam on every religion thread he can
>>75866853
>>75865848
Yes he existed. As>>75866346 said Pontius Pilate also existed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone
>>75869162
You're missing the point.
The only reason people ask the question in the first place is because there is no long and well documented evidence to prove it.
I'm saying that you wouldn't expect to find any. With the exception of the very famous, there is little to no evidence proving the existence of anyone from that time.
Meanwhile we have the oral and written traditions that say he existed, including the Gospels which claim to be written by those who personally knew him.
Holy fuck pol is stupid.
> nobody even mentions Flavius Josephus
It's all right there guys..
>>75869168
Read a book.
Google it.
Plus, the gospels are reliable.
>>75869408
> I don't care about Gawd and stuff
when did I say that I don't care about religion?
I firmly believe that Christian anti-world moralism is the main cause of the current state of affairs of the world and the reason why you have demented churches asking for an arabic invasion
>>75868230
Spread the good word, brother.
>>75868410
You think the texts are truthful accounts. They aren't. They're cut and pasted fictions, cut and pasted together by multiple people over decades. Lots of it is what I said- spin to make a Jewish rebel and the Christians who followed himlook harmless to non-Jews and to Roman authorities
'Israel is our greatest ally' and 'Islam is a religion of peace' are the same thing as Jesus being a pacifist who was nice to Roman centurions A Jewish Messiah rendering anything unto Caesar except hate is a fantasy.
>>75868138
Carrier is a PC pussy protecting Christianity's Jewish origins from scrutiny, like the rest of the mythicists.
>>75865848
Yes, it is very plausible. The scriptures give a believable account of him, it's more likely he existed and the miracles created around the events than him not existing and weakening the story for nothing.
>>75869357
Yes Gaius Julius Caesar existed as a person and helped facilitate the rise of the Roman Empire. I am pretty sure that is a fact and not questioned by historians.
>>75869054
>The lack of written evidence from the time probably comes from the fact that he wasn't well know public figure from the time.
The fact that records of his life do not exist is due to the fact that damn few records at all surviving. People somehow think that we have a lot more documentation for that era than e actually do.
Just before the time of Jesus, we have a relative abundance of surviving written records in things like the commentaries of Julius Caesar, the letters, Philippics and philosophical writings of Cicero, etc. But as well-documented as the end times of the Republic were, compared to earlier and later times, we still would not be able to look up a list of who the carpenters were in Rome then much less out in Judea.
>>75869541
>I firmly believe that Christian anti-world moralism is the main cause of [everything that's bad]
Why?
>>75869595
>believable account of him
>believable
define believable please
I would say that the Gospel rely on suspension of disbelief more than anything else
>>75869496
This
He was used as an inside job to fuck with the Jews and make them docile goyim so they would stop fucking with the roman empire. Instead it horribly backfired and now we are stuck with Pope Poz I telling us not to be rayciss and to convert to Islam
Curse you jews, curse you!
>>75869168
>no documents regarding Pilate
You could have stopped there, documentation of Pilate's time as Procurator do not exist into the present. So it is not surprising that in records that do not exist, a specific incident is not mentioned.
>>75869126
>American autist who thinks emperor tweeted like Obama
>>75869529
>read a book
Not an argument
>Google it
Not an argument
>The gospels are reliable
As reliable as the Iliad
>>75869672
Because the Christian Churches are not even trying to hide it m8
The Church of England has been one of the main forces stopping the Tories from closing the borders
>>75869663
I agree. I serve on the local historical commission for my city, and it's damn near impossible to find information on most people from 100 years ago, let alone 2000
>>75869838
So why haven't you fedoras prevented this? If lack of faith in anything is the cure to White genocide et al?
>>75865848
the real question is we know his name was joshua, so why do we still call him jesus?
>>75868605
In Mark, which was probably put together by a Jew in Rome Jesus is a Jewish man. When John was written sixty years later by Gentiles he had become a transcendent Aryan demigod.
Mark clearly isn't even the earliest account. It is itself pretty clearly a revision of earlier material we don't have anymore.
>>75869821
Dude, i really don’t want to argue with you.
If you want evidence, just go search for it.
Google it and you will find plenty of evidence that will prove you wrong.
He probably did live since many historians from that age refer to him. Flavius Josephus, Tacitus and Caius Suetonius all mentioned execution of so-called Christ in their writings.
Did he really cause all those miracles? Now that's up to your faith - I personally don't believe it - however he likely existed.
>>75869352
No, OI explicitly state that they are not -- they no longer exist. But in the years following the event, before Rome was sacked repeatedly and the process of losing records kicked into high gear, they would have been -- the Romans loved their record keeping.
During that time, when Pilate's correspondence and reports back to Rome would have existed, there were numerous works written in condemnation or support of Christianity, and many of those works survive. Anti-Christian writers attacked the new religion for any number of things -- my favorite is that by denying the existence of all those other gods, the Christians were practically Atheists!
But at a time when it would have been more possible to just look up in the records whether certain things happened -- the Crucifixion would be one -- there is no sign that anybody ever made the claim that Jesus did not exist or was never crucified.
Again, using negative evidence is tricky -- I am not asserting that this proves anything -- but I think it is interesting, and suggestive.
Also, just for the sake of weirdness, here is Bela Lugosi playing Jesus.
>be set up from birth to be the new jewish king
>old jedi fags hoping you'll free them from the romans
>rebel, don't want temporal power
>the leader of a jewish terrorist organisation betrays you to the romans in a stunning display of poor critical thinking
>you die and your family carry your body away
>you get made into a 'king' by the kind of power hungry cunts you didn't want to be
>simple minded fools follow a weird fantasy book loosely based on your life
I feel bad for Jesus desu
>>75870192
>There is evidence I just don't want to mention it
How convenient.
Go kiss some nigger's feet christcuck.
>>75870051
Because it depends if you are following the Greek/Latin or Hebrew translations of his name.
>>75869496
"I did not read the thread," the post.
He's been mentioned several times.
>>75869314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4-3dGvPlt4 around 7:20.
>>75865848
>I am 100% sure there were lots of guys named Jesus living 2000 years ago
>I am 100% sure there were lots of guys named GOD SAVES living 2000 years ago
>>75869630
What are you proof ?
You deny the existance of Christ altough we have testimony of his existence by roman writers, but you accept the existance of Caesar despite the same writers(Tacitus, etc) are used to defend his existance.
Utterly Hypocrite.
>>75869550
>You think the texts are truthful accounts.
So, if the texts, which are the only available evidence, are not reliable, on what do you base your assertion that Jesus was based on some anti-Roman agitator? The fact that the texts state He was not that is not compelling evidence that He was.
>>75869460
Have you read Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter? It proves vampires exist, because it also mentions Abraham Lincoln and we know he existed, therefore vampires exist.
>>75869496
>Flavius Josephus
A guy who was born years after the alleged facts ? what the fuck are you even trying to say here?
You realize if we were talking about another religious figure like budda your disposition would be entirely different ? you wouldnt be grasping for straws desperately trying to prove he existed, you need to become aware to your own denial.
>>75870296
you should have pooped on it, like an indian
>>75870192
Ses bud 7/10 trol nebo doslova pateticka parodie na inteligentni lidskou bytost. tahni do pice.
>>75869821
>>American autist who thinks emperor tweeted like Obama
Emperors made proclamations, edicts and rescripts all the fucking time. And we have ample examples of the anti-Christian writers (as well as the Christian apologists) to know what that debate looked like.
>>75869985
You would be surprised
Czech Republic, the most atheistic country of the EU, is also the one of the countries most exceptical of Islam
They have consistently blocked refugee quotas, unlike far more christian countries of the block
http://praguemonitor.com/2016/05/05/prime-minister-sobotka-rejects-latest-refugee-quotas
Notice how even in Hungary, the most right-winged country of the EU, only 45 % of the population believes in God
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god_2010.png
Meanwhile, countries with large christian followings like Portugal, Ireland, Spain, don't even have proper right-wing parties
The largest right-wing party in the EU (Front National) also exists in extremely secularized France
The one asking for more islamic immigration is NOT Richard Dawkins... it is the Pope and the CHRISTIAN Democrat Merkel
Atheists literally have ZERO reason to welcome islamic mass immigration, while Christians are literally promised that their savior will come to end the world once they are under oppression and persecution
>>75870524
>You deny the existance of Christ altough we have testimony of his existence by roman writers
No, we don't. No contemporary historian accounts mention him. Every piece of evidence presented to date has been debunked by historians as fraudulent.
>>75869985
Notice that Poland and Sweden are exceptions tho
Even then, swedish leftists openly declare that the source of their moralism is Christianity
he was the first socialist. Literally a Marx of the first century
>>75865848
>or is it an actual story created by the Jews
That's what it is exactly. Congratulations you've found a redpill
Christianity and the Jesus story is nothing more than the original Jew lie
>>75869985
relevant article:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126802/Christians-likely-left-wing-liberal-views-immigration-equality.html
>>75870265
In the early centuries of Christianity there was a Christian forgery called the Acts of Pilate that claimed to be the records of Pilates letters to the Emperor about having crucified Jesus.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Nicodemus
They had to make them up because they never existed-- or if they did exist, they didn't say what the Christians expected to hear, so they destroyed them.
>>75870524
Nowhere do I, or have I denied the existence.
I want to learn so I am asking questions and getting good responses on other subjects to read up on.
If you think the written historical records for Jesus and Gaius Julius Caesar are comparable then I don't know what to say to you.
>>75869821
Jesus existed. Just use wiki as a starting point and go from there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus
>The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st century Judea, most probably between the years 30 and 33 AD. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is established as an historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources,[1] although, among historians, there is no consensus on the precise details of what exactly occurred.[2][3][4]
>>75870444
Oh, you are using the non-canonical pseudepigrapha -- when you said Gospels, I thought you meant the Biblical ones.
But yes, people wrote all sorts of nonsense about Jesus while pursuing various heresies. I agree on that point.
Thanks for the response, by the way.
>>75865848
Yes, it's even taught in history classes that he existed even by professors who won't say BC and AD because it was made up by Christians.
There were several messianic people at the time that eventually became one in the historical record.
>>75865848
The Romans were NOTORIOUS note takers.
There were originally 4 "authors" that documented the existence of a religion that identified as followers of a faith labeled "christos". They have been mostly discredited as false, and the remaining ones do not refer to Christ by name or specifically as a person.
The documentary "The God That Wasn't There" goes into great detail about the time frame they try to insert him in.
Long/Short: There's a reason people take things on faith. His(?) teachings are infallible, though, and a perfect way to live your life. Hence "I'm the way, the truth, and the life..."
Even if he wasn't real, why not subscribe to his teachings?
"How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep holidays than commandments."
-Benjamin Franklin
>>75870980
Acts of Pilate was written before Nicodemus's Gospel and just thrown into it. Acts of Pilate was an account, not letters. There was a forgery of letters mentioned in Paul.
Acts of Pilate may or may not have been a forgery, but it's dated somewhere between 60-130AD compared to the rest of nicodemus being 4th century.
>>75871270
>why not subscribe to his teachings?
His teachings are demented, absurd, suicidal, ill
You may as well applaud the Pope and the christian democrats for loving their enemies and inviting an arabic invasion!
>>75870762
Ok
Eastern Europe, however Christian it may be in general (think of Romania and Poland for instance) is, by virtue of its former communist oppression, more reluctant to invade itself with Islam (or much of anything else for that matter)
Religion, if anything, doesn't seem to affect this aspect in particular (in Eastern European countries)
Western European countries have been extremely secularised since the 1700s
The fluctuations in degeneration you're seeing right now is due to the culmination of that, regardless of the within-Western variations you're trying to observe
How could you sincerely believe a complete lack of faith in absolutely anything would be conducive to European civilisation?
>>75870524
We do have the writings of Gaius Julius Caesar the Dictator himself, though. Don't have any books by or letters from Jesus.
I am satisfied that Jesus existed historically, but if you want to look at it from a "muh historical writings" point of view, the available evidence for Caesar is much, much greater, and includes contemporary writings by and about the man.
As would be expected -- Caesar ruled the Roman world and indirectly founded the first dynasty of Emperors, as far as contemporary Roman writers would have been concerned, Jesus was a carpenter in some distant province who was executed for preaching without a license.
>>75868817
>>75868817
There's a lot of uncertainty about this. The lack of corroboration says a lot about this.
>>75870662
Yes. it is easier to document the existence of a more recent Prince than a carpenter in some backwater region at an earleir time.
But out of curiosity, I wonder how easy it would be to dig up documentary evidence of ol' Buddha, apart from religious texts? Never tried, not being belligerent, just would be curious.
>>75871099
Let me get this straight
Jesus existed because :
>described in the four canonical gospels. referred to in the New Testament epistles
aka the bible said so
>attested to by other ancient sources,
Ancient sources = historians born years after the facts briefly mentioning the myth of jesus
>and is established as an historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources
The opinions of non christians =/= evidence
This is so fucking weak and addressed by every critic of historical Jesus time after time again and the only rebuttal is the logical fallacy of appealing to authority
>>75871407
Please describe a particular topic in which you have a grievance with in regards to Christ's teachings?
>>75870960
I wonder what are the proportions among atheists
>>75870980
>>75871283
Interesting, thank you for posting.
>>75871638
Then go try
>>75871713
Galatians 3:28. This is the spiritual foundation of egalitarianism, which is the degenerate pillar at the heart of socialism and communism.
>>75870980
Pilates reports back to Rome definitely existed. And the people who had earliest access to them were not the Christians -- so perhaps they did not say what the pagans wanted to hear, in that they confirmed the trial occurred.
possible
the tales about jesus were written from people that did not even know or meet jesus in person since he was already dead by then.
the bible should nearly never be taken literally and taken with context
>>75871407
I bet you're one of those guys who cherry picks verses and takes them out of context while being completely ignorant of the bulk of the Bible.
>>75865848
I'm not too seasoned when it comes to Christianity but didn't it exist before Jesus?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
>>75868443
My dad's friend is super into this theory. The thing that never made sense to me for this theory to work was that people back then believed that if everyone in your country wasn't worshiping your gods they will become mad and make you fail.
Which made the Jews the ones to blame whenever the country went through some hardship.
So why would the Romans, especially a general which tends to be extremely religious create a religion that would make people worship a different God than their own?
>>75868013
You summed it up perfectly m8
Also I hate to have to do this but:
RARE
A
R
E
>>75865848
The jews think he existed. They thought enough of him to curse him in the Talmud to an eternity of being boiled in excrement.
>>75871918
Not Jesus. Try again, though!
Hint: There are 4 books in the Holy Bible that contain passages of his teachings.
>>75871408
One can hardly argue that Western Countries were extremely secularised all the way back to 1700s
Outside of the immediate period of the French Revolution, religious laws on morality, including divorce, remained in place as late as 1970. Gay Marriage would take an additional 40 years. Great Britain has still not fully separated Church and State.
Until a few decades ago, being seen as atheistic was not politically correct.
One can't ignore a sharp contrast between the two areas of the World.
a) where Christianity was allowed to naturally evolve, without widespread persecution of its structrures, it rapidly degenerated into moralistic spiritualism concerned only with bringing about a nihilistic ends of the world and end of history: the diseases of Zionism and Progressivism developed, out of the apocalyptic obsessions with bringing Armageddon (for Zionists) and Heaven (for Progressives)
b) In Eastern Europe, where Christianity was severely damaged and hampered for 50 years, people retained their common sense, and still see civilizational survival as a priority
This is NOT a coincidence
Other modern countries, that underwent similar historical processes, like Japan, one would expect that they would behave in the same suicidal way, if the problem is modern degeneration. But absent the element of Christian Morality, such suicidal decay can't actually exist.
japanese people may not breeding that much, but they are not inviting muslims to replace them
> How could you sincerely believe a complete lack of faith in absolutely anything would be conducive to European civilisation?
Czech Republic and Estonia seem to be doing well. Why do we need "faith"? Faith is illogical, and makes you do illogical, insane things
>>75871822
I might, though my inability to read Sanskrit or whatever the fuck they used would be a hindrance.
Remain calm, I am not planning to invade your islands or anything, that's the Brits.
>>75871656
are you bored today argentina? just trying to shitpost out some frustrations?
Josephus and Tacitus both wrote about Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
>>75865848
Why would the kikes create the story of Jesus only ro come to hate him more than anything else? That makes no sense.>>75865848
>>75872241
His demented promise that his insane jewish cult would bring division to the family and to the tribe shows you that he was well-aware that his cult was a tool of familial destruction for the goyim
When a religion demands that you put it over immediatly biological concerns like your own family, you realize it is an insane death cult.
>>75872328
Well you can't read latin or greek either.
>>75872345
The infamous American reading comprehension, they wrote about Jesus but they just happen to be born YEARS(tacitus even decades) after he conveniently desintegrated leaving no evidence
>>75865848
tl;dr yeah he prolly lived
fedora here,
The story of the historicity of Christ is a fascinating one. See Durant's "Caesar and Christ."
German philosophers in the 19th century began asking this question, and there was a heroic backlash of Christian philosophers who "saved" Jesus. It was basically accepted that to have that much ink spilled after his death would've been a literary miracle bigger than the ones jesus ever performed.
>>75872068
I'ma go with, "No." Christianity as a religion formed after the death of Christ, as His followers tried to build an institution to spread the Gospel. The history of the formation of the Church is pretty well documented.
There were any number of Messianic preachers wandering around in the East, though -- is that what you're referring to?
>>75872372
That is called misdirection
> Oy vey goyim, we would TOTALLY HATE if you follow the poisonous teachings of these demented suicidal kike!!
> hehe, those kikes think they fool me!! I will do the opposite and actually embrace the crazy teaching of this death cult XD
> heheh good goy! remember that the death cult teaches that treasures are evil! So we will take control of your finances so that you don't have to sin :^)
>Muhammad and the Child Marriage curse
Child marriage has all these horrible connotations in American culture, but Islam is Middle Eastern/Central Asian culture, not American, where Child Marriage is fairly normal.
Now if you dared to call him a homosexual, then you'd be in some trouble.
But using the p-word to describe him, within the framework of Middle Eastern Cultures, is not an insult.
Christianity is yet another plot to destroy white people. We should have stuck with our ancestral blood and soil pantheon.
>>75868443
Nah, Flavian loved war, as did his sons (tho slightly less).
>>75872241
>the teachings of Paul don't reflect the teachings of Jesus
Spotted the heretic.
>>75872438
>When a religion demands that you put it over immediatly biological concerns like your own family, you realize it is an insane death cult.
Hmm, I think you're confusing Christianity with Islam or Judaism.
>>75865848
The story of Jesus is based on the life of a Hebrew-Roman named Inpendius. Inpendius was killed for standing up against the Roman government and religious leaders of his day.
see here: http://marvelousworkandawonder.com/themessage/this-is-what-your-true-messenger-can-do-when-allowed-to-do-his-job-chapters-456-of-thumps-way-to-world-peace/
>>75869162
>Jesus didn't have a child
Looks like someone hasn't watched the DaVinci Code yet
>>75872731
So, you have never read the Gospel?
>>75872573
OTOH,
We have court records of land title deeds changing hands, court records of, "he stole muh livestock," etc from all parts of the Roman empire. Jesus SHOULD'VE popped up on the Roman legal radar. This is one of the, IMO, stronger arguments of the "no historical Christ figure" side.
>>75872093
>So why would the Romans, especially a general which tends to be extremely religious create a religion that would make people worship a different God than their own?
To start, I think the theory is nonsense -- but for the sake of speculation about that question...
It would be possible for a Roman general to think "Damn, those guys have a pretty damn powerful god, maybe more powerful than ours, might be wise to get them to worship something made up that can't help them."
That though would be consistent with Roman paganism, but not with Roman practice, in which Rome's gods were demonstably the most pwoerful, proved by Rome's defeat of every enemy for centuries, and in which conquered people were allowed to worship their own gods but encouraged to add the Roman ones as well -- required to, if they wanted to become citizens.
This last bit was an obvious problem for monotheists,and created problems for Christians and Jews during times when Emperors were feeling forceful about religious questions. The Jews were, from time to time, given an exemption that said, basically if you pray FOR the Emperor and sacrifice FOR Rome, you need not pray or sacrifice TO them. This was broadly acceptable to the Jews, but prevented a problem for Christians, who were forbidden by their faith from offering sacrifices at all.
>>75872317
>a) where Christianity was allowed to naturally evolve, without widespread persecution of its structrures, it rapidly degenerated into moralistic spiritualism concerned only with bringing about a nihilistic ends of the world and end of history
"Nihilistic end of the world". You're imagining all Western Christians are Protestants aren't you?
>Czech Republic and Estonia seem to be doing well. Why do we need "faith"?
Cherry picking. Think Soviet Union-style lack of faith
>Faith is illogical, and makes you do illogical, insane things
You can't have logic without faith. You're running into infinite regressions, circular reasoning and self-refuting dogma
>Japanese
Just because they're not replacing themselves with others doesn't mean the Japanese are not killing themselves as a people
You can kill yourself without someone else pulling the trigger
>>75867702
>Yes, we have indirect refrences to that faggot in our saga/sagns
Fuck, that's pretty impressive, I didn't know that
>>75869541
>demented churches
Just say the Catholic Church, we all know what you mean anyways.
Yes he did.
Also, I love how every time 'they' make a 'computer recreation of how Jesus looked' he looks like a complete zero charisma slob with the IQ of a chimp. I wonder who could be behind that.
>>75872731
Its amazing how Christians are the least educated in Christianity, he is not even making refference to the OT but the teachings of christ himself.
>>75871423
> the available evidence for Caesar is much, much greater,
We have roman and jewish testimonies, and we have Christianity itself which goes back to Christ and his teachings, for caesar we only have a few stone monuments and writings, his existance seem doubtful when we compare it with the existance of Christ.
>Jesus was a carpenter
Cesar was an emperor like figure and claimed to be a descendant of Venus, but do you see people who worship him or Venus today ?
In contrast, the seemingly insignificant "carpenter" is now worshiped by 2 billions + people, and countless countries were founded in his name.
>>75869985
Secular humanism is literally just Christian universal morality with a different name. There is no difference, which is why nobody respects A+ fedora types. They have contributed nothing and are so stupid they do even realize that.
>>75873056
>You're imagining all Western Christians are Protestants aren't you?
The Pope and Merkel are protestant now?
> Cherry picking.
Why would it be cherry picking? I just pointed out that countries can actually exist and continue their civilization without the need for religion
You wanted examples, I gave you examples
> You can't have logic without faith.
Nonsense.
Faith = complete trust or confidence in something, even under the absence of logical evidence
To claim that logic and faith are dependent is outright silly
> Japanese are not killing themselves as a people
They are not. Even if their population becomes smaller, all they would need is a eugenic program to bring it back if needed
>>75872559
Yes, and so I would be unsuite to root out documents about Jesus from His time. Lucky for me, since I have some interest in the subject, lots of people who share that interest have made the effort, and written reams about it in English, which I DO read.
Up until your post, I had never considered looking into the historicity of the founders of the other great religions -- Mo' seems pretty well attested, the "founder" of Hinduism would be lost in the mists of time, so that would leave Buddha as somebody to look into.
All said out of casual interest, it is not a huge deal tome either way -- but if anybody knows of any research into the historicity of Buddha, and feels like sharing, I remain somewhat curious.
>>75873137
The Church of England and the Lutheran Churches of Germany are pushing for the same shit
>>75872728
Pick your teacher:
> Mr. Miyagi
> Daniel San
Mr. Miyagi teaches you Karate
Daniel San teaches you his version of Karate he learned from Mr. Miyagi
Let's not forget that Paul never actually learned from Jesus. Paul was indeed authoring his best interpretation of teachings that he THINKS Jesus would have given based on the revelation Paul had about Judaism in general.
Once again, I agree with Jesus' teachings. However, Paul does not equal Jesus.
>>75872610
>But using the p-word to describe him, within the framework of Middle Eastern Cultures, is not an insult.
Ha, go over there and try it, I'd be interested in your experiences.
>>75873304
>We have roman and jewish testimonies
You don't, you can be a witness of something that happened years before you were born.
There is no reason to doubt the existence of Caesar either, his life is not shrouded in mysticism and accounts of supernatural events and his existence is not meaningful for anyone since he is not the centre figure of a cult that's infamous for fabrications and the burning of evidence.
>>75872829
Have you never read any religious text, Panama? You can cherry pick from any religious text and make it sound like a death cult. The Torah is equally littered with crazy shit, as is the Koran. You got God telling all three them peeps in to go kill their offspring as a "test". I realize New Testament is different and what you're referring to, but when you still have several Judeo-based religions using old texts, might as well go ahead and say every religion is a death cult. You have to observe what is practiced in regards to what is taught. Western Christians historically put family first and are taught by their "leaders" to love God as you would your father.
I'm not even at bat for Christianity here, I'm a zany fucking zen taoist (which doesn't even make sense, it's like mixing oil and water), but you and Argentina are doing a good job trolling around the historical Jesus thread.
>>75873624
>You got God telling all three them peeps in to go kill their offspring as a "test"
nigger speak came out
>>75867322
Is that cum
>>75872829
...he writes, carefully omitting any mention of what parts bother him. We're supposed to guess.
>>75873358
>>You're imagining all Western Christians are Protestants aren't you?
>The Pope and Merkel are protestant now?
I was saying this in reference to the "bringing in the end of the world" bit that you said. Concentrate
>Why would it be cherry picking? I just pointed out that countries can actually exist and continue their civilization without the need for religion
>You wanted examples, I gave you examples
It doesn't matter how many examples you'd give. You've still to prove an atheist country would necessarily survive culturally and as a people
Nor have you proven it's a likely thing to happen
>Faith = complete trust or confidence in something, even under the absence of logical evidence
>To claim that logic and faith are dependent is outright silly
Let me show you. First, define logic. And then tell me, why do you believe logic works?
>They are not. Even if their population becomes smaller, all they would need is a eugenic program to bring it back if needed
Why would they need to "bring it back" if they're not killing themselves?
>>75873624
Christianity is unique in that it is based on an entirely demented premise
namely, that Christians will suffer oppression and destruction before their Jewish Savior can come back
That is a recipe for helplessness, that is a recipe for looking forward for your death, and for the one of your civilization. It is NOT an accident that the christian leaders cuck for Islam
If you are a real christian, why would you fight against the promise of your lord? why would you fight to prevent christian persecution, to prevent the plan of God?
Such demented promise destroys the defenses of any civilization that follows such insane rules
Such insane declaration can only force people to look forward for martyrhood and oppression so that their Lord can finally come back!!
This demented promise DOES NOT EXIST in any other religion
>>75865848
Probably. There will always be a source problem when speaking of ancient history, but to say Jesus never existed is as much a valuable statement as claiming Nebukadnezzar or Xerxes never lived.
>>75873613
>Caesar
>Claim to be a descendant of Venus
>Claim to possess divine blood
>Claim to be helped by the gods while crossing the Rubicon(Suetonius)
Muh caesar because there is nothing supernatural about him
My side
>>75873736
My reference was clear to one of the better known paragraphs of the Bible (Matthew 10:34 )
That I need to forcefeed information about their own religion is outright hilarious and sad
>>75872870
Except we have no such records from Judea in the time of Jesus, for anybody. Nor for most other places until very late in the Empire.
Yes, the Romans kept all sorts of records. And when Rome fell, all osrts of records were destroyed, lost or pushed into the corner and forgotten.
Other than graffiti, a few papyri in Roman Egypt and some rare cases like the letters preserved at Housesteads in England, we have almost no evidence of the everyday people, as individuals, at all.
>>75870762
OY VEY! DELETE THIS
>>75874076
>we have no such records from Judea in the time of Jesus
That's not true.
>>75873358
>Merkel
Merkel is Jewish.
>>75873890
>This demented promise DOES NOT EXIST in any other religion
How many religions have you studied?
>>75873890
That is just reality. There will be suffering, destruction, oppresion, mockery. Just look at your post, fedora, pretentious garbage with the only intent of attacking Christianity: "entirely demented premise", "such insane rules", "such demented promise", "such insane declaration". It's quite funny in a certain way
The stupidities you talk about are just a fantasy you have created. Murder, persecution etc are wrong, so we must try to stop them. The fact that there will be murder, persecution etc. changes nothing. You are the living proof that Christianity is completely right.
>>75873875
> I was saying this in reference to the "bringing in the end of the world"
Why exactly do you think they are doing what they are doing? For the lelz?
> You've still to prove an atheist country would necessarily survive culturally and as a people
What kind of absurd argument is that. Bringing examples of atheistic countries doing fine does EXACTLY that
> First, define logic. And then tell me, why do you believe logic works?
Logic = self-consistent arguments and functions
It works because 1+1 is always 2
> Why would they need to "bring it back" if they're not killing themselves?
Because they are undergoing a population correction. Japan has 1/3 of American population in 1/12 of the space
>>75873970
Ceasar claiming to have a 30 cm dick is different from Jesus breaking the laws of physics in front of thousands of people yet no record of this ever happening exists outside the accounts of a cult.
The difference between an emperor with a big mouth and a literal god walking death are not subtle, you are playing dumb.
>>75873890
This is one of many reason why Nietzsche criticized the Christian "inversion of values" vis a vis master morality vs. slave morality. Whereas a master describes as virtues those things such as strength and knowledge, the slave describes these as vices and their exact opposites as virtues. No wonder then that Christians willing invite the Moslem hoards into their midst.
>>75865848
Yes he is mentioned in passing by the roman historians.
>Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD
>Roman historian Tacitus referred to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate in his Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.
Very few historians doubt there was a historical Jesus.
>>75874368
*walking off death
>>75872870
Jesus pops out in the historians radar. Jesus wasn't some kind of communist that createed a mob to destroy the Roman empire.
>>75873311
THANK YOU. The people that don't understand this need to read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kòjeve, Evola, and Carl Schmitt.
>>75874361
>Logic = self-consistent arguments and functions
Now define what self-consistent means. I can do this all day, and you will eventualy see you just accept arbitrary things as true without questioning them. Why 1+1=2?
>>75874457
Look at the year those historians were born and the year they made those mentions.
Use your brain a little.
>>75865848
>current year
>still not knowing Jesus was just Caesar
>what are you? a fucking casual?
Both Julius Caesar and Jesus began their careers in northern countries: Caesar in Gaul, Jesus in Galilee; both cross a fatal river: the Rubicon and the Jordan; both then enter cities: Corfinium and Cafarnaum; Caesar finds Corfinium occupied by a man of Pompey and besieges him, while Jesus finds a man possessed by an impure spirit. There is similarity in structure as well as in place names: Gallia > Galilaea; Corfinium > Cafarnaum
He who does not take sides is on my side» reoccurs as «For he that is not against us is for us.».
«I am not King, I am Caesar» appears as «We have no king but Caesar».
«The best death is sudden death» appears as «What you are going to do (lead me to death), do quickly».
>THE CULT SURROUNDING JESUS IS ACTUALLY THE CULT OF DIVUS JULIUS, MODIFIED OVER THE COURSE OF CENTURIES IN VETERAN COLONIES IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE EMPIRE.
>>75873304
> (me) the available evidence for Caesar is much, much greater,
> (you, France bro) We have roman and jewish testimonies, and we have Christianity itself which goes back to Christ and his teachings, for caesar we only have a few stone monuments and writings, his existance seem doubtful when we compare it with the existance of Christ.
You dropped off what I wrote -- I wrote that, in terms of written contemporary evidence, the evidence for Caesar is stronger -- given that it exists and all, it would have to be. I find the other evidence for the existence of Jesus as a historical figure, including what you wrote above, to be persuasive.
But don;t write that the existence of Caesar seems doubtful, it makes you look like you are still mad about Alesia.
>Jesus was a carpenter
>Cesar was an emperor like figure and claimed to be a descendant of Venus, but do you see people who worship him or Venus today ?
No, though if you go to the ruins of his temple on the Forum, people still leave flowers there.
>In contrast, the seemingly insignificant "carpenter" is now worshiped by 2 billions + people, and countless countries were founded in his name.
Indeed. But at the time He died, to a Roman historian, He would have been just another nobody in a sea of nobodies -- hence it is not surprising that He does not appear in the few surviving sources for the period.
>>75873890
The Pope is cucking for Islam, but the Catholic Church long ago became a business, and less a religion. It's a shame you have to deal with a primarily Catholic population, I can see how that would embitter you.
I grew up Eastern Orthodox and I can say for a majority of Christian leaders in the United States, even within the Catholic church - they are not supporting Islam.
The leaders you see on our news advocating are either non-religious politicians or advocates for something else.
I know you're being intentionally belligerent, but most Christians don't have this "defeatist" attitude. They go about their lives, trying to live the best life they can - because in their mind, when Jesus returns, they believe they can have redemption.
>>75874002
It's also in Luke 12.
Jews have Micah 7:5–6
I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is the same argument Christians here make at Muslims with passages like sura 9:5
Also Islam has 2:165
>>75874236
wat
>>75874249
> How many religions have you studied?
You tell me, wise one, what other religions have a promise of persecution and a moral system to allow to such persecution to happen?
>>75874348
Another idiot that has never read the Gospel
What is so hard to understand about "DO NOT RESIST EVIL" "If someone takes your coat, give them your shirt as well", "those that wanna die will live", "carry your own cross", "blessed those that are persecuted, for the kingdom of Heaven will be theirs"?
> You are the living proof that Christianity is completely right.
How? Anyone wanting to follow the moral declarations of Jesus would find it impossible to defend himself from murder or persecution!
Never mind, that Jesus asked his followers to EMBRACE such persecution, not to stop it!
It is like you read the Gospel and decided that everything that Jesus said is actually the opposite
>>75874630
> Why 1+1=2?
Because I believe my senses
I am not a moronic gnostic that believes that the flesh is a lie
>>75874361
>Why exactly do you think they are doing what they are doing? For the lelz?
The only ones I personally know that are trying to bring forth the end of the world are Jehova's witnesses
Any other Christian should be expected to respect the Bible
Ecclesiastes 7:17
>> You've still to prove an atheist country would necessarily survive culturally and as a people
>What kind of absurd argument is that. Bringing examples of atheistic countries doing fine does EXACTLY that
You have to understand what "necessarily" means before you can understand logic
>Logic = self-consistent arguments and functions
Define "self-consistent" and "functions"
>It works because 1+1 is always 2
Why is 1+1=2 true?
>Because they are undergoing a population correction. Japan has 1/3 of American population in 1/12 of the space
I thought it's because the young guys are paedophilic shut-in autists
>>75865848
also, Jesus's real face, pic related
>>75873970
I believe you are messing with him, but that was nonetheless well played.
>>75874368
You forgot the part where Caesar claim his ancestor fucked an immortal being called Venus who can influence the universe with a mere word.
You also forgot the part where a winged human who claim to be the messenger of almighty and immortal beings(the gods) help caesar to cross the Rubicon.
It's you who are playing dumb, do you seriously consider that winged humans are real, or that goddesses can be fucked and they can give birth to human ?
>>75874672
You were born in what year and you have heard of Hitler right? Things back then were passed on by word of mouth because very few people were educated or rich enough to write them down. The man himself was universally accepted as having existed since less than 100 years after his death even Romans who hated Christians wrote about him (Tacitus). As a living person he very likely existed as to the rest I cant say. If that's not enough for you nothing ever will be and this whole thread is a pointless waste because you made up your mind long ago.
>>75874895
Why do you believe your senses?
>>75874194
It is true -- but if you think such records exist, point us at them
>>75875021
there are videos of Hitler, you nonce.
>>75874895
>Because I believe my senses
So, you have no answer. Welp. So much for "logic" and "self-consistency".
>What is so hard to understand about "DO NOT RESIST EVIL" "If someone takes your coat, give them your shirt as well", "those that wanna die will live", "carry your own cross", "blessed those that are persecuted, for the kingdom of Heaven will be theirs"?
I don't see how being humble and lack of hedonism is bad. What I say remains: we must help others by removing evil ways.
>How? Anyone wanting to follow the moral declarations of Jesus would find it impossible to defend himself from murder or persecution!
That is false, though. Please, study a little before trying to participate in things you don't understand.
>>75875154
4chan is hopelessly stupid in the summer.
>>75874765
One can't forget that it is the Eastern Orthodox church that is feeding all those rapefugees in Greece
Christian demand of compassion for everything weak, everything wretched, everything that nature would rather destroy, is at core of the civilizational problems facing Europe
>>75874772
>This demented promise DOES NOT EXIST in any other religion
The burden of proof is on you
>>75873970
Caesar was deified while still alive.
Actually, the cult of Jesus is nothing but the cult of Caesar by the veterans who were given plot of lands in Palestina.
please see >>75874746
>>75873890
But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also
Christianity is literally a religion designed to weaken. Any crusaders etc were Christians who decided to ignore the cuckery because their lives and families were in danger.
Christianity and Islam are both based on Judaism and both Jewish creations designed to destroy the white race
>Christianity weakens us so that
>Islam can destroy us
>>75874746
Clever, but you left out
J--ulius C--aesar
J--esus C--hrist
>>75874772
>wat
Father and mother were ethnic Jews. Even though the father changed his name into Kasner laster on (also called "Red Kasner", he was a communist pastor - crazy shit, man).
Anyway, it's a long story. There's a Polish documentary about her somewhere. They love her because her ancestrors seem Polish and the whole family was and is as anti-German as you can get - which makes her pretty cool for every Polish man or woman.
The same documentary also stated she was born in the US. Which sounds like bullshit, but there is also pic related.
It says:
>Underground fighter for US imperialism. The photo is not a fake. The Federal Republic of Germany is a US colony. The Stasi knew that.
And further down
>Note: Underground fighter for US imperialism
Btw, she got into her position because her father had many, many connections to the Stasi and thus, to our modern government, which consists of Communists and ex-Stasi.
And now you know why Germans always say this is the US' fault.
>>75875021
Hitler was recorded by historians who were alive when he was alive....
>>75875015
>do you seriously consider that winged humans are real, or that goddesses can be fucked and they can give birth to human ?
Those are not important on the historicity of Caesar, he is recorded and known by his administration as an emperor not the bullshit he spew, Jesus is literally the bullshit Caesar spew in his entire persona, not to mention there is actual witnesses and evidence of Caesar existing unlike Christ's convenient evaporization of every single piece of evidence.
>>75875281
>this
The only way to stop this is a total abolition of ALL religion. Islam and Christianity alike are Jewish created enemies of the white race
>>75874921
> The only ones I personally know that are trying to bring forth the end of the world are Jehova's witnesses
lol no. Why the hell do you believe so many christians are cucks for Israel? They actually believe it will bring the end
> You have to understand what "necessarily" means before you can understand logic
That burden of proof is retarded
Atheism does not force civilization survival, but neither does Christian Moralism
A civilization that can survive, WILL survive, if it has the will to do that
> Why is 1+1=2 true?
Because the definition of truth is "1+1=2"
> I thought it's because the young guys are paedophilic shut-in autists
that is a by-product of overpopulation
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
im gay
>>75875217
What does bizarre declarations like "blessed those that are persecuted, for the kingdom of Heaven will be theirs" and "DO NOT RESIST EVIL" have to do with being humble?
Do you really believe that resisting evil and persecution are somehow acts of hedonism?
lol
>>75875154
Fake as the moon landing ones.
>>75875306
Not really
I can claim that a blue elephant DOES NOT exist
If you wanna prove otherwise, you have to bring evidence that blue elephants exist
>>75875389
also I forgot one of the most striking resemblances:
Caesar comes from the caesarian section which was perfomed on his mother. Still today we use it to point the procedure of "cutting".
So, in a certain sense, Caesar' mother remain "intact" when she gave birth, when deified she became "virgin".
Jesus Crhist was Julius Caesar
>>75875327
I have read the theories that the Jews created Christianity to weaken people and give them the power to dominate the world. But this doesn't make any sense historically, as the Jews have been fighting the descendants of Ismael since the beginning of time. Why would they want to empower their blood enemies?
>>75867702
s-so will there be another messiah to tear down M-Merica... cause lf JewS 0.o
>>75875477
I would have to look into that
Sounds conspiracy-tier to me desu
>>75875307
>Caesar was deified while still alive.
I think you are mistaken. Or are overstating, at least.
It is likely that divine honors were paid him as conqueror of the east, in eastern lands, because that's sort of what they did.
But that is not the same as his deification as a Roman God, which happened after his assassination and coincided with events claimed to have been witnessed at his cremation, and with the appearance of a comet that was interpreted as his fiery soul ascending to the heavens.
>>75875875
Pagan Romans almost wiped out Jews from the map
Christianity made them the only people with a right to engage in financing and money trading activities during the Middle Ages, leading to massive jewish fortunes by the 1600s
Christianity also turned a lot of whites into demented apocalypse-obsessed zionists
>>75875703
Cool. It seems like most of /pol/ is ok with you now that trump said he's pro gay
>>75875499
Yes, Caesar claimed his divine blood but the winged human thing was reported bythe contemporary writer Suetonius.
Caesar existance is filled with supertnatural.
>>75875843
You are mistaken.
A claim that something absolutely does not exist is a positive claim, and requires evidence.
If you modify your claim to "I know of no such case" instead of "there is no such case," then you can escape the burden of proof, if that's your goal.
Or just admit that you have no idea what any other religions teach, and we can all move on.
>>75867158
Shut up, Jesus.
>>75865848
Does it even matter if Jesus was a historical figure or fabrication if the two are indistinguishable?
>>75875862
Wrong.
Jesus was a Jewish cuck that hated Rome
Caesar was a nationalistic Roman general that wanted to make Rome great again
The first thing they teach you in philosophy 1 at priest school, is that you cannot prove Jesus existed, that you must understand it is about sharing your faith and love.
>>75875571
Honestly if China goes apeshit on religions now that Christianity and Islam are becoming a problem (again) I will consider learning Chinese and move, the west is doomed anyway.
>>75876222
Not really, just a side note you're pretending its relevant because you are angry your beliefs are being questioned.
Its a shame France lost the revolutionary wars, you got cucked into an irrelevant religious shithole when you had achieved something greater and were so close to utter domination.
>>75876294
That is an absurdist claim
under your argument, if people believe that monkey-bird hybrids exist without proof, then we have to assume they are right, and the burden on proof is on us lol
>>75875618
>lol no. Why the hell do you believe so many christians are cucks for Israel? They actually believe it will bring the end
Maybe a minority in America. I haven't heard of many who do this elsewhere
>That burden of proof is retarded
>Atheism does not force civilization survival, but neither does Christian Moralism
So why is a complete lack of faith in anything better for a country than Christianity?
How would it have any cohesion of thought?
>A civilization that can survive, WILL survive, if it has the will to do that
But what would a civilisation represent, if it has no faith in anything? Much less in itself?
>Because the definition of truth is "1+1=2"
Where'd you get that definition? And why is it true?
>that is a by-product of overpopulation
>See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
Japan isn't really that densely populated is it?
>>75875862
Sorry, but this reads WAY too much like the list of coincidences between Kennedy and Lincoln, which do not really prove that Lincoln and Kennedy were the same guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Kennedy_coincidences_urban_legend
>>75876098
Yes, but the Christians have had a pretty decent run murdering Jews as well: Inquisition, Holocaust.
Even if we want to go down the path of Christianity is just a Jewish Death Cult meant to destroy whites, it's backfired pretty hard. But I've enjoyed bantering with you Panama.
Anyways, Jesus existed, historically.
>>75876542
You just don't assume anything until you prove it dipshit
Yes, if you do enough research there was someone suited to the BIble's description. He were only a medicine man as there were many in that time and he did infact create a ruckus in a Jewish controlled marketplace... No magic except for the overwhelming need to spread his word by his 'disciples' upon his death
>>75876294
Notice that "there are other religions besides christianity that have a morality based on their persecution of their followers" is even more a positive claim, specially because it implies that the declarer has a priori knowledge of such occurance (which he obviously didn't, so it is an unsubstantiated statement)
>>75875499
Caesar was not an Emperor.
>>75876222
Suetonius was not a contemporary of Caesar.
Achievement unlocked: Nitpicking.
>>75876531
>Shithole
Stay mad niggergentina
Our nationalist are rising while your jewish overlords are raping and impoverishing your country.
>>75876649
Then why are you morons assuming that other religions have exactly the same persecution-based morality of Christianity without any evidence whatsoever?
>>75876379
>hated Rome
Evidence?
Remember, He's the guy who reportedly said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's."
>>75876811
>Our nationalist are rising
That's cute, you still have hope.
>>75876379
>Jesus was a Jewish cuck that hated Rome
literally said
"We have no king but Caesar" and " Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's"
>Nicomedes of Bithynia and Nicodemus of Bethania, Junius (Brutus) and Judas, Brutus and Barabbas, Senatus and Satanas ....
>>75876797
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus 69 AD-140 AD (age c. 71)
His most important surviving work is a set of biographies of twelve successive Roman rulers, from Julius Caesar to Domitian, entitled De Vita Caesarum. He recorded the earliest accounts of Julius Caesar's epileptic seizures. Other works by Suetonius concern the daily life of Rome, politics, oratory, and the lives of famous writers, including poets, historians, and grammarians. A few of these books have partially survived, but many have been lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius
>>75876379
>Caesar was a nationalistic Roman general that wanted to make Rome great again
>>75876589
but that bs is well stretched (Both presidents' last names have 7 letters.
Both assassins' full names have 15 letters.
Each assassin committed his crime in the building where he was employed.)
the similarity between the Julius Caesar and the gospel is so striking it's almost layering.
>>75876762
Yeah, that's why everyone forgot about him in a year or two.
>>75876874
Most of us don't know you shitcunt. And neither do you. So stop pretending you have gone through every single religion out there to see if you're right
>>75876550
>
So why is a complete lack of faith in anything better for a country than Christianity?
Because the people of that country would follow their rational, hedonistic interests, instead of bizarre otherwordly ones that imply shit as insane as allowing others to persecute you
> if it has no faith in anything? Much less in itself?
> But what would a civilisation represent, if it has no faith in anything?
Greek Roman Civilization existed without such concern for 1000 years
> Japan isn't really that densely populated is it?
Do you consider Britain is overcrowded?
>>75876542
Not at all.
If people want to say "I do not think there are any monkey0bird hybrids," they are in a strong position to say so -- available evidence not being forthcoming to refute it.
But if they say "there are no MBHs," then they would have to offer proof -- which is easy to do, if you understand how genetics work and how hybridization works.
In no case does somebody else making an assertion put any burden of proof on you, unless you choose to make a positive statement refuting it.
>>75876934
http://www.dailystormer.com/president-of-argentina-adopts-jewlet-to-prevent-it-from-turning-into-a-werewolf/
Have a good day, and may Christ Bless you :)
>>75877204
> I have not studied other religions, so no onehas
Top argument m8
>>75876636
> Anyways, Jesus existed, historically.
well, back to the original point of the debate, he probably did
Surely even if it was a death cult, it needed to have a starter
Whoever that starter was, he was Jesus
>>75876782
>Notice that "there are other religions besides christianity that have a morality based on their persecution of their followers" is even more a positive claim,
I agree, and notice further that I never made that claim.
>>75877325
That's not our president.
"[J.F.C. Fuller] was entirely at one with me on the point of my attitude to Christianity. We regard it as historically false, morally infamous, politically contemptible and socially pestilential. We agree with Shelley, Keats, Byron, Swinburne and James Thomson as far as they went. We agree with Voltaire, Gibbon, Strauss, Huxley, Herbert Spencer, Tyndall, J. G. Frazer, Ibsen and Nietzsche as far as *they* went. But we were absolutely opposed to any ideas of social revolution. We deplored the fact that our militant atheists were not aristocrats like Bolingbroke. We had no use for the sordid slum writers and Hyde Park ranters who had replace the aristocratic infidel of the past." - AC.
>>75877290
Well then I correct my argument declaring a disclaimer:
* from all the religions I have studied
>>75876990
Suetonius born AD 69
Gaius Julius Caesar died 44 BC
So yeah, not contemporaries. Suetonius missed Caesar by over 100 years.
>>75877472
>That's not our president.
*not anymore
But what's the difference beetwen a jewish puppet and another jewish puppet.
>>75877463
because you are not even the anon I was argue that with lol
>>75877208
>Because the people of that country would follow their rational, hedonistic interests
You really think the default to faith is rationality?
Hedonists yes, rational, not so much without an education and proper genes
Where would they get their morality from then m8?
>Greek Roman Civilization existed without such concern for 1000 years
I'm pretty sure they were not rational atheists™ m8
They had their gods and their morality
>>75867342
We write down all historic accounts no matter how implausible they may seem.
We are historians, not scientists.
>>75877388
You are a time waster. You should value your time.
>>75877539
Excellent. Which ones are these, out of curiosity?
>>75877388
Have you?
>>75877616
Yeah -- I'm just some pettifogging buttinski.
>>75877608
The diffence is that we don't vote socialists anymore unlike the Algerian protectorate of France
>>75867251
Hey, I'm an accredited historian!
Go me!
Also I've never looked into non-Biblical records, so I have no opinion on if he historically existed one way or the other, but I do go to church every Sunday.
Some of us think there were two.
He may have had a twin that took his place after the execution.
This would explain his resurrection
>>75865848
Its a story. Mostly allegory ripped off of other more ancient pagan regligions. The jews jewed a whole religion into existence to control the goy easier.
>>75873137
All Americans are cuckolds
>>75865848
Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person (or possibly persons whose tales were merged in the course of history) who inspired many people and was generally a top notch bloke.
Whether or not he was the son of God or God in human form or anything like that is certainly debatable though. That said, by all accounts he was a truly great person, so I have no problem with people who idolize him, even if I am mostly atheistic.
>>75875327
Canadians are cucks.
Literally every single one of them.
>>75865848
Yes, and he loves you.
>>75877772
>>75877780
Besides Abrahamic religions, my favorite area of study are pre-abrahamist european religions, specially greek, roman and celtic
I have a nominal knowledge of taoism, buddhism and hinduism, but my main interest with those is a historical one
When it comes to animistic religions, and pre-hispanic american religions I don't really know much tho, gotta confess that
>>75877747
That is why we are in 4chan, aren't we?
