To all the people who say you need to play an instrument to critique music:
Why?
And how many instruments do I need to play?
Like, let's say I play acoustic guitar. Does that allow me to critique all music or only music with acoustic guitar? Or does knowing one instrument allow me to critique any genre? Because that doesn't make sense to me.
Nobody can learn EVERY instrument, so why is knowing any instrument necessary to critique an enormous amount of genres that don't even use that instrument?
And how WELL do I have to be able to play my instrument? Do I have to be able to play sax as good as good as Louis Armstrong to critique any of his music?
Prove to me this makes any sense.
it's just something people with a superiority complex say to feel important and give others the impression that they know what they're talking about more than others; it's also used to devalue the opinions of others when they differ with that person's view.
Op it is beautiful that you think playing an instrument doesn't give you extra knowledge about music when you don't realize that playing music on different instruments doesn't change how music works.
>>63666357
Because if you're a cook and someone who can't boil spaghetti tells you what they think goes into making good food you laugh in their face.
obviously it will give you a greater depth of knowledge, but it's not necessary. that's like saying only those who have produced films can be film critics. there would be none.
>>63666458
Not OP, but all it does, realistically, is give you a vague relation to the players. It's a moot argument.
t. a musician
>>63666484
Really a false equivalency. A producer may have never played an instrument in his life but can tell what makes a good record and what doesn't.
>>63666295
To all the people who say you need to be a plumber to fix plumbing
>>63666509
No it requires you to learn how music works so you can make it yourself.
>>63666566
But what if I don't want to make music? You can rationalize this till you're blue in the face but all it does at the end of the day is narrow the space for people to talk about what they love.
>>63666549
Producing is a part of making music. You have to understand how music works on some level to be able to make it.
>>63666609
I don't care what you want to do or not. If you don't know how to make music or study how it works, you don't know as much as someone who does. It's very simple.
>>63666609
>But what if I don't want to make music?
You don't have to. But you'll have to accept that your opinion and critique of music is less valid than the critique coming from a musician.
>>63666295
if you're a musician and you've played with others it gives you a slightly better appreciation of certain things, most importantly timing. you can improve your own sense of rhythm from playing to a metronome, but when you're playing a song with some guys and you're all tight? it takes a lot of practice. non-musicians listening to live recordings may not appreciate the difficulty in this
playing with a band also gives you a slightly better understanding of composition, but it's kind of hard for me to explain what i mean
also if you're a pianist for example who has played with lots of different musicians, you get a better understanding of technical proficiency with those instruments even though you don't play them. you get a feel of who can do what, what works and why
hope this makes sense
>>63666549
>A producer may have never played an instrument in his life
The ones who can tell what makes a good record and what doesn't all can play instruments.
Really a false equivalency
>>63666676
kanye west doesn't play anything and he's one of the most successful producers both critically and commercially of our era
>>63666295
i'd say about 3 instruments each from a different family. drums don't count
>>63666716
He is also capable of writing and performing raps, and isn't terrible at singing. He can make music, he is a musician.
>>63666716
>kanye west doesn't play anything
He plays piano and synths
i think that playing an instrument can help you appreciate music more but any moron can judge music, you don't need anything more than some ears and a brain to tell good music from bad music
>>63666633
>>63666636
I think the whole point of this threads is why does that mode of thinking have to be used so disparagingly? You almost never see someone use that argument here without laughing down to whoever they're talking too, literally or figuratively.
Friendly reminder that none of this matters and we've all been sucked into a thread to be pitted against each other for OP's enjoyment.
>>63666800
>You almost never see someone use that argument here without laughing down to whoever they're talking too, literally or figuratively.
Because we usually only bring it up of an anon is being a real fucking idiot. If you peons wouldn't structure such an inane argument in the first place, we wouldn't act in a way you perceive as condescending
>>63666295
You can't criticize something you dont understand. Doubly so for art. If you dont understand the basics of music theory, and aren't able to apply them with an instrument, then you have no place judging others works. Having no intimate knowledge of an art form, means you can't understand what's being conveyed, which means you can't critique what's being said.
Is that clear enough?
>>63666643
i will add though that all i'm trying to say is playing an instrument lets you appreciate certain aspects more
my piano teacher once said something to the effect of "music is just a series of noises, anyone can have an opinion on noise" and thats very true. ultimately if something doesn't sound good to you, regardless of your musical background your opinion is still valid. but you may find more to like in music if you have a better idea of what's going on
>>63666857
maybe anons like you think the same
most are letrolling by using the argument OP wants to be explained just to keep others anons occuppied making counter-arguments against it
you know, like 4chan itself often says we all do?
>>63666800
Probably because you guys are wicked pretentious and are hostile to people who enjoy music that you consider bad or simple, when you just praised a much more simplistic song/album. Being a person who knows about music here is often suffering.
>>63666906
Hey, someone's being reasonable in this thread. I guess there's a god after all.
>>63666906
Your piano teacher sounds like a fucking idiot
Im way smarter than him by the sounds of it.
>>63666486
This is a false analogy.
>play sax as good as good as Louis Armstrong
kek i'm surprised no one noticed this
>>63666912
Nah.
Be more butthurt though.
>>63666941
oh jeez, looks like this guy doesn't understand subjectivity
don't worry anon, it's a difficult concept to grasp
>>63666941
>/mu/
>>63666954
I'm not the same anon as before btw
just arrived here
>>63666549
That's not true at all, good producers play music and understand how music works. Bad producers focus on shiny engineering techniques.
>>63666888
>>63666962
But music isn't subjective anon. I know this because my opinion can't be wrong, ever.
>>63667003
REKT
E
K
T
>>63666991
I never assumed otherwise.
>>63667003
Just because he wasn't consciously deciding every note doesn't change the fact that he knows way more about music than you do. His opinion stil lhas more value even though he can't verbalize everything he knows about music.
>this whole thread
>>63667003
that other anon is just yet another idiot that uses music for image, the only difference is he thinks having some knowledge of theory makes him any better than the faggots parroting pitchfork
why don't we stop trying to one up each other and just enjoy listening to music
>>63667039
that's good, well done
*applauses*
>>63667003
Coltrane sounds like a fucking idiot
Im way smarter than him by the sounds of it.
>>63667051
le spinetta ambiguous face
if you know music theory you won't end like this fool >>63665853 (or anyone in daily threads)
>>63667057
If you think that actually knowing how music works and how to make it isn't better than parroting pitchfork you should probably murder yourself.
>>63667057
>why don't we stop trying to one up each other and just enjoy listening to music
That's not a popular course of action to the people in this thread, but I'm on board.
>>63667003
Did Coltrane ever play with non-musicians, or just musicians?
Think about it.
>>63666295
OP is just a talentless faggot who never had the courage to learn to play music, like the rest of us well learned band people. Fucking neckbeard prick. Learn to read music.
>>63667057
The irony here is that op is a fashionista
>>63666643
exactly, being a musician gives you a whole new perspective on music
>>63667057
>why don't we stop trying to one up each other and just enjoy listening to music
I like this idea, let's do that
>>63667124
nobody (me) cares anymore
>>63666295
Op why don't you just fucking learn to sing or play an instrument? Jesus christ
KINGS OF LEON ARE THE GREATEST BAND IN THE LAST 100 YEARS PRESS SHARE IF YOU AGREE
>You don't have to be an architect to critique the structural integrity of a skyscraper
>>63667162
this
>>63666295
>To all the people who say you need to play an instrument to critique music:
You don't. It has absolutely no relevance at all.
>you have to be educated in something to give an educated opinion
fuckin magic!
It's not needed to critique music, though it certainly makes music easier to resonate with, as you can really get into what people are doing (especially if someone is playing an instrument you also play).
I always thought Hendrix was cool, but I didn't realize how good he really was until I tried replicating him.
>>63666566
>No it requires you to learn how music works so you can make it yourself.
(which has no relation to judging the quality of music with what it was made for, your ears, by the way)
>>63667282
It does however have a relation to how effectively one can judge the quality of music
You need to play one instrument from each family, with at least ten songs on each to be able to have any educated opinion on music. You also should be able to read and write music and name at least 100 classical musicians without Google.
>>63667267
Understanding music theory has nothing to do with taste.
>>63666295
it doesn't cut off the ability to critique, however instrument playing helps with technical knowledge, the critique will be more technical, and actually give the musician some help in growing, more than just "i didn't like that one part very much", that may be valid and helpful, but it's not as helpful as "you need to do these things"
Knowing how to read and write music as well as having some experience playing music live is 100% necessary for technical critique.
However, technical critique is for nerds, so who cares?
>>63666295
I wouldn't say you need to know an instrument to critique, but I think playing an instrument helps hone your listening skills.
For me at least, I tear songs down to thier pieces while I listen to them, and appreciate every layer.
I feel like a lot of people just take the whole song as one mass of sound, which it technically is, and should sound good as as well, but appreciating melodies/harmonies and rhythms is what I think you should bare minimum understand to really critique music
also after you play instruments long enough and figure out how to express yourself on that instrument you start to almost see how certain melodies are being done
>>63667104
what difference does it make? in both scenarios you're still just using music to blow up your own ego by belittling other opinions. learn to understand what subjectivity is
i've been a pianist for 8 years but if i play my non-musician friends a song i like and they don't like it, i don't try to tell them that my opinion matters more or some shit, i just put on a different song
you're a loser
>>63667335
Taste has nothing do do with understanding music
>>63666549
good producers can at least fucking play keys you moron.
i've done enough whistling and banging on pianos to know for a fact that instrumental proficiency has dick all correlation with "good" "taste" in "music"
>>63667371
Dipshit I don't talk down to people for not knowing how to play music having an opinion, I'm hating people for being pretentious about their taste when they don't know anything about music.
>>63667371
>learn to understand what subjectivity is
Subjectivity is often the shield that the musically illiterate use to hide behind when their flimsy opinions can't hold water.
>>63667385
>whistling and banging on pianos is being proficient at an instrument
>taste has nothing to do with anything
but who seriously takes people seriously that make this criticism? Don't most people (rightfully) write it off?
>>63667385
Yeah bud sounds like you just fucking suck at music.
>>63666295
Play guitar, used to do clarinet, and becoming interested in music criticism.
>>63667398
music IS subjective though
playing in bands has allowed me to pick out parts in music that i like and appreciate, that otherwise i probably wouldn't have noticed or cared for, but that's it. it still comes down to your own personal opinion on what sounds good and what doesn't
>>63666295
its not about being able to play the instrument and what instrument as much as it is about learning music theory and being able to apply it to said instrument
before you can demonstrate tone, structure, dynamic, timbre on a piano for yourself you are lacking a certain perception of music, music theory is the base of all music like numbers in math
>>63667440
By that logic, shouldn't you be writing off our comments?
>>63667482
>music IS subjective though
Incorrect.
>>63666888
What about movies, TV shows, cartoons or anime?
All art in their own rite, what is the prerequiste skill/level of understanding one needs to pass judgment on these mediums?
>>63667522
Well you need to be at least 8 y/o to pass judgement on anime, the target demographic
>>63666295
>To all the people who say you need to play an instrument to critique music:
Well they're wrong so this isn't really aimed at me but I'll give you my two cents anyway.
You don't have to play to be a critic. You have your taste and you're entitled to your taste. BUT if you play at least one instrument your criticisms will be better informed and make more sense.
>>63667495
i hope i'm just getting trolled, or else you're insufferable and it pisses me off that i have to share my hobby with people like you
this is why people believe that musicians are all snobby, and why people are hesitant to get into music at all
i pity the company you keep because they have to tolerate you. good night
>>63666295
>Louis Armstrong
>sax
Well that should be pretty easy because as far as I know Louis Armstrong didn't play sax.
It's more that it gives you an appreciation for music and what goes into it rather than just the finished product.
It gives your opinions a little more weight but it's not essential.
>>63667377
neither does music theory :)
>>63667522
>Anime and cartoons
Animation classes.
>TV shows and movies
Cinematography classes.
>Literature and poetry
Literature classes and writing classes.
>>63667572
So, does one need to make a full length feature film to be critical of story and cinematic elements in a movie? That somehow yields a greater appreciation for such a medium?
>>63667571
>my hobby
So you don't really play an instrument either.
>>63667576
Said someone who doesn't understand music theory.
>>63667098
It's really embarrassing when someone who doesn't know anything about music tries to talk at length about it, it always comes off to me as though they've read too many pitchfork reviews
>>63667607
Would having a deeper understanding of the design yields a greater appreciation for such a medium?
What do you go to college for?
>>63667442
I don't know, I can see where he's coming from
tons of people who understand music just listen to top 40 or other drivel
>>63666716
He plays piano and synthesiser. Producing to me also makes you just as much of a musician as everybody else.
>>63667656
Probably because it's less about what you choose to listen to and more about what you take from it. If you didn't "bang on the piano" and knew how to play it you would understand this.
>>63667581
lol @ all liberal arts fields being theory based and therefore not proven just widely believed
>>63667495
>>music IS subjective though
>Incorrect.
prove it
>>63667098
hmm so music theory's involvement in critique is not the why but the what?
>>63667656
My bad, you're a different dude. First sentence still applies.
>>63667070
If you honestly believe this than you're a fucking idiot. Kys.
>>63667693
It can be measured objectively by hertz and decibels
>>63667607
Someone who has worked on film or been to film school will of course have a greater appreciation for movies. I said it's not essential but of course it will affect your perspective, I would say most likely for the positive. Are you dense?
Would a painter have a better appreciation for a painting than a layman? Would a writer or a professor have a greater appreciation for literature? Or at least have a different perspective or a more informed viewpoint?
>>63667726
>>63667726
Just to be clear you can have whatever opinions you like but if they're fucking stupid and you get shot down by someone who knows what they're talking about you shouldn't get salty.
It's just like, your opinion, man.
>>63667726
Appreciation is subjective.
Any affections one has for a medium implies bias and thus an unfair criticism.
Practical elements are far more useful in criticizing a medium than subjective "appreciation."
>>63667686
Theory and experience are 100% necessary for being an above average artist today. You have no excuse for not having the technical knowledge to make your craft as objectively perfect as possible.
>>63667495
>>63667495
I didn't say me, I said "most people".
>>63667679
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmdAYC4Ygck
I played clarinet for eight years throughout school with the school band.
I still know almost no theory. Does that mean I can or can't critique music?
>>63667778
>your arm fell off? wow anon you should see a doctor
>Any affections one has for a medium implies bias and thus an unfair criticism. I'll just a freind to glue it back on
>>63667839
You can talk about how you understand whatever instruments were being used, but you cannot pretend that you understand composition or technical aspects.
>>63667839
You can, but your opinion will be less valid than an actual musicians' opinion
>>63667840
you can't compare art/entertainment to science
>>63667840
How does someone going to a doctor imply biased affections for medicine proven to cure and extend life?
Medicinal care, believe it or not, is actually NOT theory or a creative medium.
>It's a "nobody knows music theory but some people pretend they do to look better than anonymous strangers on the internet" episode
>>63667898
Why not?
>>63667901
>How does someone going to a doctor imply biased affections for medicine proven to cure and extend life?
Because they studied medicine.
>Medicinal care, believe it or not, is actually NOT theory or a creative medium.
Believe it or not, this is not relevant.
>>63667932
I haven't studied medicine but I would still go to a doctor if my arm fell off and have equal, if not more, appreciation for them healing me.
You chose to make it irrelevant by equating art with science.
>>63667913
i'd say its less about understanding the actual theory, and more about just listening and playing long enough you know how to get certain melodies out of your head and onto an instrument
knowing the notes and the reasoning is less important, you start to understand the jumps of whole steps and half steps between notes and which ones to do when at some point and you don't really have to have ever understood what a whole step or a half step is
>you have to be a nuclear technician to criticize nuclear bombs
some of you guise are really that stupid
>>63667982
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCp-WK-Mw8k
>>63667957
And yet musicologists teach music theory to music majors. Isn't that fascinating!
>>63668019
>>you have to be a nuclear technician to criticize nuclear bombs
The technical make-up of nuclear bombs? You in fact do.
>>63668019
actually I'd say that's fair
most people have no business having opinions on anything they have opinions on
>>63668020
I'm not picking up what you're throwing down, but that video is somethin
People are mixing personal preference into the equation which just makes the entire discussion a clusterfuck. I get the impression that people want to justify their taste in music by using music theory which is the wrong attitude to have.
Also using analogies on this topic is a waste of time because different fields have different nuances that make critiquing each one require different skills.
>>63668040
it really isn't fascinating, its hardly even a point.
So, to you theory people, is self-taught internet and pirated books theory acceptable, or do you only accept the opinions of Berklee alumni?
>>63668135
>if I ignore the point, it won't exist
>>63666295
As a multi-instrumentalist I'm going to say
No.
You don't need to play an instrument to critique music.
Does playing an instrument add to your validity?
Yes, but it's not needed.
Music theory explains this pretty well.
There is science behind why some things sound good and other things sound like shit.
You don't need to play an instrument to say that something sounds like shit, but don't expect anyone who plays an instrument to give a shit when you tell them how to make their music.
are all the professional Batman Vs. Superman critics' opinions less valid than someone who has created a low-budget home movie?
it's disheartening to see people treat music as more a form of entertainment than an art form. I like naruto fanfiction and i also like the aeneid but i dont pretend the user who writes under the username narusaku69 is the next virgil. In literature, painting, cinema, photography, sculpture there are categories which to differentiate good work from mediocre work. but in music it's all a matter of taste? It is becoming apparent that as a musician you are the bottom of the barrel in terms of respect and as time goes on it's more of entertain us, make us feel good rather than have any artistic expression. then when musicians try to be artistic they're deemed pretensions and up their own ass. music isn't subjective it's just you dont respect musicians as artists
>>63668160
Theory existed before Musoc degrees did, your question is going to get mixed answers, but most theory wasn't made by college graduates
I've run into some dip shits who don't know shit about anything outside their instrument with fuckin doctorates in general theory.
And I've ran into 30-year-old high school dropouts who know more about guitar theory than I learned in 8 years of music education.
Learning an instrument helps you understand music. It's all the same principles in a lot of cases, but once you know them, you can critique a lot better.
You don't have to know an instrument, but its easier if youve studied music in some form.
Music theory is the science as to why things sound good on paper. It's a bit useless when it comes to things that ditch theory intentionally, despite what the poseurcore meme people would have you believe. However, the technical terminology it teaches you is very useful for discussing the interesting aspects of experimental music that intentionally goes against theory. Theory is quite useful for discussing heavily composed music, but most rock/rap/folk/etc. music is unwritten when it is first created and most things that aren't prog or whatever aren't exactly interesting to look at on paper. It's more interesting to look into the technical aspects behind how they make it sound - like, how is it produced? How are the guitars tuned? What effects are being used to give the instruments a unique tone? As for actually playing instruments, you can still have valid criticism of a song. However, do not expect someone to listen to your opinions on their technique if you yourself do not know what it's like to play. Would you expect Yo-Yo Ma or Okkyung Lee to accept your comments on cello playing when you most likely have never touched a cello?
>>63668381
>It's a bit useless when it comes to things that ditch theory intentionally
That music is generally socially useless anyways
It's just a meme.
>>63668381
>>63668402
>has clearly never made experimental music.
Experimental music follows music theory, just not conventionally.
>>63668507
If you mean that it follows the laws of physics, yes. But people like Jandek intentionally do shit that goes against the general principles of theory, so trying to discuss him using theory is effort better spent elsewhere.
>>63668507
>what is musique concrete
>>63668507
Trying to apply music theory to lowercase and field recordings seems like it would be an exercise in futility.
You don't need traditional musical knowledge and you don't need to play an instrument to critique Trout Mask Replica, at the very least. Beefheart couldn't play an instrument and he wasn't musically literate, so why should the listener have to be? It requires a much more abstract kind of understanding.
>>63668676
Yeah and TMR sounds like absolute fucking shit.
>>63666484
It would be more like if they know what is good-tasting food and bad-tasting food. What's wrong with that? I'm not a chef, but if something tastes like shit I'll probably know.
Knowing an instrument only matters for the technical aspect of music, and whether or not you care about how good something is technically is completely subjective. For a genre like jazz it can be very important, but do you think albums like Loveless or Faust self-titled get made because the artists were technically proficient with their intrument(s)? No, of course not, and yet they are rightfully regarded as masterpieces by plenty of people who ARE good at their instruments.
People who claim to have superior tastes because they play an instrument or understand theory are just trying to validate their lives that they wasted learning those things only to realize that very few people make a living off of it and all the smart people went and studied things that actually helped them get real jobs so they could get somewhere in life.
Most music worth listening to wasn't made because someone practiced their whole life with theory or instruments, the music worth listening to is the stuff that breaks the rules and comes from people who are genuinely creative and not just good at an instrument or two.
>inb4 "you have to know the rules to break them"
that's bullshit and you know it.
>>63668186
>make us feel good rather than have any artistic expression.
what exactly is artistic expression to you? how come art isn't supposed to make you feel good?
>>63668687
but Squidward we already played babble like an idiot!
>>63668687
Most of the time, yes. But a few songs are actually pleasant, like Veterans' Day Poppy. But that's beside the point, because that's not why people like TMR.
>>63668700
Yeah and if you went around judging which dish was harder to make and tried to tell a cook how to do it you would be a stupid asshole.
>>63668744
Yeah they listen to it because their favorite meme critic told them they were inferior for not liking it and all of you faggots ate it up.
The album is praised for the batshit insane way they went about making a record and because it made punk musicians realize they didn't have to sound good.
>>63668797
>Yeah they listen to it because their favorite meme critic told them they were inferior for not liking it and all of you faggots ate it up.
or maybe the album has been critically acclaimed for decades now because its actually good? have you ever considered that maybe its you who's dumb?
>>63668797
I don't really think that's accurate, either. It's an album that turns several genres on their heads at the same time and does whatever the fuck it wants. It was pretty groundbreaking for 1969. Try listening to some old fashioned Delta Blues, I think you'll appreciate what it does more.
>>63668762
So if I go to a four-star restaurant and I am given a horrible, gut-wrenching meal, I can't tell the chef it is, in my taste, an awful dish? No less how it could be improved?
>>63667003
It isn't necessary that it be understood to be enjoyed. It is necessary if the goal is to criticize it.
>>63668862
>>63668896
>>63668984
See this is the problem. You guys aren't capable of understanding how full of shit you really are, you just don't have the right knowledge base.
>>63668984
You're free to dislike it, specially being a pleb, but your criticism is unlikely to be of any worth.
>>63669087
Really? We criticize it in our minds already. What's the difference when we vocalize it, musician or not?
>>63669149
Understanding.
>>63669133
Then feel free to explain your retarded opinions instead of just saying that one group is wrong.
>>63669139
I won't deny I'm a pleb, but I happen to be a pleb that's studied music for more than a decade.
I'm also a pleb that doesn't get butthurt when a non-musician has tastes/criticisms.
>>63666782
If the opening to Runaway counts as "playing the synths" then I'm Miles Davis
It gives you a better understanding of music in general. People who dispute this either don't play an instrument or are just arguing for arguments sake. You would only need to play one instrument. If you can play one instrument its a lot easier to learn another instrument than an individual who has never learnt an instrument.
You notice nuances that non-musicians don't
>>63667884
I played for eight years. Pretty sure that makes me a musician by some standard.
>>63670222
How many groups have you played in in those 8 years?
>>63669517
Hello Miles.
>I know exactly what's wrong with this soup even though I'm not a chef, and I've never made soup in my life.
>>63669517
Can you sign my copy of Bitches Brew?
the food comparisons are bs because the process involved in making food isn't implied in the end product, as it is in music. You can understand what you like or dislike in music no matter your ability to make it
>>63673454
>You can understand what you like or dislike in music
Prove it.
>>63673564
I'd say post music and I'll tell you if I like it or not and say why, but I don't have headphones
>>63673621
Or better yet, post some music and tell me why you don't like it.
>>63673754
I haven't listened to music I don't like for ages, so I wouldn't be able to say. I guess I don't like swans because they're saccharine, boring and navel gazing
>>63667576
moron
>>63673827
>so I wouldn't be able to say
I rest my case. A musician would be able to.
>>63673867
so the main difference between a musician and non musician is a musician likes less music?
>>63673894
Did you read the thread
>>63673916
No, just your responses
>>63673945
Sounds like your mistake.
>>63673827
>I don't like swans because they're saccharine
How so?
>boring
How so?
>navel gazing
What does that even mean?
I say this with the intent of pointing out that you have a grasp of music theory before critiquing, as most people that play instruments understand theory and will spend time pointing out the flaws and strengths of an album, rather than shouting "m-muh anco," or "m-muh rap/hiphop!" So yes, if you play the guitar, you need to know music theory, and therefore, you can accurately critique quite a bit of music.
People who know music theory probably are more able to explain what they like or dislike about something. But how does that alone make them valuable as critics? qualified, sure. but it says nothing of taste. I'd sooner go to someone with taste like my own for recs than someone who knows why he likes or dislikes something but has terrible taste
