“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin
previous thread: >>66114094
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
THEORY
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Arnold Schcoenberg's "Fundementals of Music Composition"
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw [Embed]
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
IMPROVISATION
>Fake books for jazz and blues soloing
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzW9o5O35hQzMzA0ZmI0MWEtZGFmNi00OTQ0LWI2MjMtOWUyNzgyNmUzNzNm&usp=drive_web&ddrp=1&hl=en#
STUFF /COMP/ DOES
>the /comp/ YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA
>the /comp/ weekly challenge
[email protected]
Other resources (full of lessons and books): http://pastebin.com/k3xddxwr
wew
I'm here at least
Let's talk equip and software for a moment.
What notation software do you use, have you used? Feel free to give a mini review.
What recording gear do you use to record your ideas or improvs?
For me:
Software
>Capella
used a DOS version way back, fairly clumsy back then.
>Score Perfect (not score!)
some german Software I used during high school, very very mouse based, but it had one thing going for itself: when you do multiple selects (ctrl select), and then copy paste, the notes will be inserted in the order they were selected.
>Finale
compared with what I had before, it was great. I liked the (PC) keyboard centric way to enter and modify stuff, and I really liked the instrument sounds that came OOTB
>Sibelius
Very allround and very user friendly interface. Doing layout is a tad easier than on finale.
>Lilypond
text based notation program. It's like going from Word to TeX. You get absolute control, but the creation process becomes harder.
I like the smooth appearance of the scores, the ability to assign notes to variables for reuse.
>>66167403
I'm using Sibelius right now, love that they introduced a monthly sub. My budget can very well more than handle it and I end up making up that $20/month I pay for it.
Equipment wise, been using a Line 6 UX2 for years to record bass, guitar, and vocals, a Keystation 49 to record anything but a piano, and a Yamaha YDP-140 to record piano since it has faux weighted keys and can emulate the piano a lot better.
>>66167729
top kek just pirate sibelius
you played yourself
>>66167764
Lmao wait are there reliable Sibelius torrents? Cause I'll bail on this sub if there is
learning theory is tedious and ultimately stifles creativity
none of you will ever write anything exceptional
>>66167895
why do you think that
how do you think people should make music without theory
>>66167895
t. generic bandcamp shoegaze musician no.352849501847
>>66168006
>>66167962
https://soundcloud.com/the-bamboo-shoots/time-runs-money-funds
Wrote this without any theory knowledge, and it's highly innovative and musical, proof you don't need theory.
>>66168071
So you just played random chords on the fretboard until it sounded cool
k
>>66168071
THEORYFAGS BTFO
>>66168071
so how'd you come up with it
what is your creative process knowing no theory
>>66168071
if you knew theory (which you probably have at least a basic understanding of from playing), you could actually know what you're doing when you write stuff like that.
>>66168071
hey guys i can cook waffle without a recipe therefore chefs are fucking retards wasting their life
-you
>>66168071
>needing to say it's highly innovative and musical
Often a sign of it being neither.
>>66168071
>i dont know what im doing but i like it
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #2 VARIATIONS July 1st - July 7th
Compose a section in a theme and variations based on the opening theme of In the Aeroplane Over The Sea. Keep your section to around the same length as the original (50 or so seconds).
Instrumentation: Violin + Piano
Instrumentation is constant so that at the end, I can stitch this together into a single piece.
To make this easier on me, please email me the midi when you're done [email protected] and I'll be producing it. If you can't give me midi because you only handwrite your music on egyptian parchment, email me the sheet music just incase i miss it itt
Please try to stick to starting and ending in G major (not necessarily the chord, but the key for sure)
POST theme and variations you like. post ideas for directions to take (don't feel compelled to write in any specific style). Post WIPs.
MIDI if you're lazy: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=01675490908115586209
>REMINDER
YouTube stream, /comp/ learning session 2, will be on Sunday, at 6PM US Central Time!
>>66167895
>>66168071
>retarded opinion
>is a rockist dude with a guitar
poetry
>>66168071
I know you're just trolling but your album cover for that track is literally an advanced music theory concept my dude. troll better next time.
>>66168411
no need for that reminder
Also, here's the theme, again
>>66168114
>>66168151
>>66168212
>>66168270
>>66168338
>>66168345
How many of you guys actually listened to the track? and I don't mean with an analytical theory-driven ear, I mean with a passionate and life seeking yearning of an ear? That's what I'm talking about when I say theory stifles your creativity.
>>66168185
I just let my brain go and record images I see in my head, and it just flies onto the guitar, have never read notes or formally wrote stuff down but have managed to get gigs performing my stuff.
>>66168463
>I just let my brain go and record images I see in my head, and it just flies onto the guitar, have never read notes or formally wrote stuff down but have managed to get gigs performing my stuff.
lol what
How the fuck do you know how to translate it to guitar? Trial and error?
>>66168463
>I mean with a passionate and life seeking yearning of an ear
I did and it was shit.
> I don't mean with an analytical theory-driven ear
Oddly enough, it was only interesting when I listened with an analytical theory-driven ear
>>66168506
presumably he means he just plays what's on his mind on the guitar.
I do it with my cello all the time, gives me ideas I can then analyze with theory
>>66168071
This is significantly better than anything usually posted in these kinds of threads. It's strikingly avant garde and familiar at the same time, without being burdened by excess education. It's Jackson Pollock in musical form.
>>66168506
>Trial and error?
True art is trial and error
>>66168536
But what do you do when you do that?
>>66168601
I play what my fingers want to play next? And I record it, and then I can use it to plan out something longer and less fantasie-impromptu.
>>66168547
>This is significantly better than anything usually posted in these kinds of threads
Well, yeah, it's clear he has talent, which is why the fact that he'll never know what else he can do with it is quite irritating. Most of what is posted in these kinds of threads is by people early in their learning.
>>66168463
I listened to your track, and your lack of theory has definitely stifled your creativity. You've really restricted your vocabulary, note choice, and phrasing, but you wouldn't know that because of your lack of theory knowledge. tell me what is novel about this other than the fact that it's several unrelated lines superimposed, which you can go into a guitar center and hear for yourself.
>>66168547
lol that's some obvious samefag
pretty pathetic 2bh
>>66168715
Claudio Arrau once said "An interpreter must give his blood to the work interpreted." well Claudio Arrau was a hack who only played music made by others because he was chained to following theory rules and concepts.
I refuse to let my creativity be stifled by those rules and you may not hear MY creativity because you have a set notion of how music has to sound, but I guarantee you it came from the heart and is creatively sound for those that step out of their comfort zone.
>>66168741
That's not me but I appreciate the kind words that anon had for my work.
>>66168637
Anon plays by ear and claims to have more "artistic ingenuity and creativity" than guitarists or musicians who are familiar with music theory, believing they are limited by the confines of theory, whereas in his ignorance of music and through the use of his "trusty ear" he is unconfined.
This is a delusion. Someone of talent will never surpass someone of both talent and skill. You can claim to be talented and toot your own horn as much as you'd like but someone with your level of talent who knows theory will be capable of applying their knowledge in ways you could never dream of.
You might know that the second fret of the G string sounds like an A, but you don't know why certain sounds sound the way they do, or why certain harmonies work, or even how. This might not be a bad thing, lots of professional artists are far from theorists in terms of technical skill, however to claim to be beyond that of a normal theory practician makes you look like a child. To praise your own work goes beyond the boundaries of hubris, and you close your own mind to a world of knowledge.
TLDR Anon thinks he can bait this thread with something so obvious, it hurts. And if he isn't baiting, you all deserve to be shot, for taking him seriously in any way, shape, or form.
>inb4 LELELE TROLLED U! XDDD
This isn't /b/ if you're going to shitpost please do so in /daily/ /gg/ or some other shitty general by saying you think the Beatles are the best band of all time.
>>66168840
"Even when I can play Europe's most precious keyboard, to have to listen to people who don't understand, or do not want to understand, and who are incapable of grasping my intent, whatever I play, does surely forfeit my lust for playing at all" - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Mozart, someone of talent, and skill. Unlike anon:
>>66168547
who needs to bait by samefagging in /comp/
Try reddit friend.
>>66168463
I listened to the track and cant believe I fell for your bait. You got me anon, 3/10.
>>66168411
what's the next challenge?
>>66168840
>TLDR Anon thinks he can bait this thread
>>inb4 LELELE TROLLED U! XDDD
>still let himself be baited
See, when someone says someone is 'baited', that means they have been lured into wasting excess energy on making it known how they feel about the bait.
>And if he isn't baiting, you all deserve to be shot, for taking him seriously in any way, shape, or form.
No one here has made a response more elaborate, detailed and time-consuming than yours. I'm guessing you had typed three paragraphs then realized you'd almost been baited, but the proper response is to remember the sunk cost fallacy and just discard what has been wasted so far.
>>66169042
Someone mentioned that it should involve rhythm in a way, which is a pretty good idea, although I'm not sure what it should be specifically.
>>66169110
Write a polyrhythmic piece?
>>66169110
Piece that switch time signatures three times?
Waltz?
>>66169205
I think writing a strict polyrhythmic piece is a good move.
>>66169207
In my opinion, switching between time signatures is not a hard technical thing, but it really needs a lot of meaning and purpose behind it. To clarify, I think that if someone wants to change time signatures in a piece, it's not that hard to do, but you just need to have the taste to do it in the right piece. Because of that, I don't think it'd be a great technical exercise, compared to writing a polyrhythmic piece. I think that having it as an optional bonus challenge as part of the polyrhythmic challenge is cool though, but please let me know what you think
>>66169289
I've been writing music for 5 years and i have no fucking idea how to write with polyrhythms
>>66167895
Interesting piece dude, really makes you think.
Now you can do that without theory, sure. Alot of great musicians played without theory.
Composers who don't theory are a different story.
You can play a great song like that by just plating what you think sounds good, but you'll be severly limited when it comes to planning compositions.
Let's say you made that song into a section of a larger piece. Can you take the motifs and develop them? Write counter-motifs? Write a whole new section, showcasing the opposite of that song?
That's all from a classical perspective, yes, but it doesn't have to be.
Let's say you were struck by inspiration. You wanted to be compose a three-part song in which the first part involved one note manipulated sonically as much as possible, the second in which there was never a note repeated twice (microtonal at that), and the third part, where one melody is varied exaxctly 56 different times.
The first section will require extensive knowledge of sound design, the second extnsive knowledge of pitches (considering you said you don't know theory, I'm not sure if you are aware there are twelve pitches on a regular guitar, and more if you bend the strings. You'll need to know about these pitches and how small you can change them to figure out the total number of pitches you can use). The third has a classic bend. It requires simple knowledge of variation. It's probably the easiest section.
You know, now I think I might like this piece. It's very simple, and very logical. I think I might just make it.
>>66169342
I kind of have an idea, but have also not delved into it too deeply either, which is why i think it might be a good challenge. Not sure if it would be too hard for beginner composers. Maybe the inverse would be better, write a piece that switches time signatures three times, bonus challenge: make it entirely polyrhythmic? The main issue with good polyrhythmic writing is I think the instrumentation needs to be dense, which adds another element of difficulty to a composition challenge.
I've only written like 3 pieces with true polyrhythmic elements. A piano piece a long time ago with a debussy esque 3 over 2 figure, and more recently a song that is simultaneously in 5/2 and 5/4, which because 5 is an odd number gives it a polyrhythmic vibe. I also wrote a piece that has a 3 over 2 figure against 4/4, and that worked really well. But again, I definitely think I need more practice.
I know a lot of /mu/ says you can create good music without theoretical knowledge, which is obviously true for sufficiently musically versed individuals. But what if you have NO musical background, can theory really do all that much to help you realize an idea? Inherent or otherwise inculcated musicality must be important to compose music, right? or could you conceivably pick it up in your mid-twenties?
>>66169435
Sounds good tbqh
>>66169680
so you're asking two unrelated questions there. YES if you only learn theory you will miss out on a bunch of stuff that simply is not book taught. Ear training (which, to be fair, is somewhat book-taught) and just a natural understanding of music are necessary to make music. If you take this to the extreme without touching any books, you will learn music theory somewhat by accident (and of course, you would have limited ability to articulate what you know). But, none of that's to say that you couldn't pick it up in your mid twenties. So many beginner composers spend years not actually honing their ears and listening, and if you just start with the right mindset it's definitely possible to "git gud", with or without academically studying theory
>>66169680
Your composing will probably suck in general if you don't know how to play an instrument. That's gives you theory and incidental knowledge.
>>66168463
your lazy, thats all you are
>>66167895
Post your music fag, I know I can improvise 10x better than you
You will /never/ get other people to play what you want them to play, that's the real purpose of sheet music. Sheet music is the interface that operates the musical instrument that is the orchestra fgt
>>66169903
He posted his SoundCloud subsequently after, it was guitar shit.
>>66170056
Yeah it sounds like complete shit O_O
This has to be some sort of epic troll
>>66169811
Not really. I sort of accept the idea of plasticity diminishment at face value. I would not even ask if I was 60 (well I would be too old for 4chan). I probably cannot really become proficient at an instrument at this point. But composing seems like a purely cerebral process, especially given there is well-established theory around it. Furthermore Schopenhauer claims aesthetics and specifically music to be his primary justification against suicide. Its certainly true that I feel least suicidal when I am listening to the music that most appeals to me. On the other hand there is really not enough of it and I figured that composing would put me more immediately in contact with musical aesthetics than simply listening.
>>66168071
>I'm really digging the guitar work here, particularly how your tone settings bring out some of the more percussive elements of your playing, which is probably because I'm a hopeless sucker for those naturally-occurring little unintentional noises. :) The disjointedness is interesting as well, as the separate licks seem to have decided on a direction to travel together without really saying anything to each other about it. It's a bit monophonic, and if you aren't actively pursuing that kind of recording style as a hallmark of your tracks, I'd be tremendously interested in hearing what it all sounds like playing together on a stereoscape.
holy shit.
>>66170385
That's Arabic for "this sounds like fucking shit but I want to be nice so you'll visit my soundcloud too"
Reposting from last thread since I got just one reply, here's a possibility for the accompaniment for the theme.
https://clyp.it/yidzlg3o
As in, the original theme, that plays before the variations.
>>66170232
I don't think the solution to being suicidal is to compose music. You need psychiactric treatment. Get some antidepressants and some sun and stop being a self-absorbed sadcunt. Worked for me.
>>66170653
If I wasn't good at music I'd have jumped off a building a long time ago
>>66170232
As someone who picked up piano with no previous music background in his mid 20s, it's not too late for you to become proficient with an instrument. Will you be playing some Chopin ballades anytime soon? Nope, but with the right instructor, you could really start flying with the instrument. Plus, having that keyboard and theory foundation when I was comfortable enough to start composing really basic stuff went a long way. I picked it up as a hobby and now it's being a serious pastime. Plus, there's a 67 year old dude who takes lessons before me and he said deciding to start learning the piano a few years ago gave him shit to look forward to, such as reaching goals and being able to express himself musically.
>>66170675
*Hugs* we're all composers here bro
>>66170653
I have done all that shit. If anything I am just a pessimist but my last shrink told me that my mood and energy were too high to be depressed. Although he says I have anxiety and has put me on low-dose antipsychotics. But personally I am an advocate of depressive realism. I don't think I could ever view my life or life in general as anything but making the best of a bad situation. As a matter of fact I tried to become Christian in bad faith but it ultimtely didn't work.
>>66171183
>the conspiracy against the human race
a fun read, right up your alley. it helped me contextualize my pessimism and has, somewhat paradoxically, in my reaction to it, formed a kind of personal motivation that isn't so easily snuffed out
New to composing. I wanted to write a piece to play with a cellist after I save enough money to get a real solid body classical guitar. Please be harsh, simple little tune. There's a part where the rhythm is thrown off because I couldn't fix the eighth rest being in there (don't know how to work around it and not have to rewrite everything). Also imagine the last notes being held out for eight beats instead of just two, I have to write that in.
Music file is just Muse Score, unfortunately I'm no cellist and my acoustic would hardly suffice.
https://clyp.it/ejqoisk0
>>66169854
Holst could only play Trombone. Most accounts say Wagner was a mediocre pianist and yet he is credited with fundamentally revolutionizing harmony. Of course playing ability helps but not absolutely necessary anon. Though a keyboard is essential kit for composing whether you can play it or not.
>>66171896
That cello part, uh, looks a little difficult
>>66171896
its pretty rambly tbph pham
>>66172059
Not him but what makes it difficult? Curious and taking notes
>>66172022
A trombone and piano are instruments, dude
>>66172022
Holst is a shit composer tho
>>66172178
yeah but a trombone cannot play chords. You might as well just hum or sing
>>66171896
Too diatonic-y for my taste. Try to explore more with your harmony. Good though
>>66172022
>Holst could only play Trombone.
Fucking kek I still don't believe this. Pretty sure Respighi only played violin too.
>>66172200
which is why a common piece of advice for composers is to sing melodies. Not an instrument, technically, but it still produces music
>>66171402
Personally I still have to work through Cioran but its on my reading list for sure.
>>66172183
good enough for me. I don't think anyone here is going to be a revolutionary composer
>>66172183
Please fuck off jesus. Don't take /classical/ shitposting here
>>66172361
>calling me by the name of the Messiah
Truly, I am the king of shitposters
>>66172406
*sforzandos all over u*
>>66172105
The key is Db Major or so.
The notes of Db Major are Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb and C.
The open strings on the cello are C, G, D, A. So the only open string available for the cello is C (leading tones in general don't sound good as open strings, but that's moot here), which isn't in the range of the cello part here at all. That in itself isn't really a problem, but the part is absolutely laden with double stops.
The double stops playable on the cello are, in order of difficulty from easiest to hardest:
>sixths (easiest by far)
>tritones (same fingering as minor sixths, also easy as balls)
>minor sevenths
>fourths (same fingering as major sixths but difficult to tune)
>fifths? (very contextual, often easier than fourths but often more difficult than thirds, I'd just avoid these if you're not a cellist)
>major sevenths (like a minor seventh but wider and difficult to tune)
>thirds (same fingering as sevenths, but more difficult for the same reason fourths are more difficult than sixths)
>octaves (if you're high enough they're easier than thirds, and even low I can sort of finagle them due to my freakishly large hands but probably just avoid these)
>ninths (you've gone way too far)
>tenths (saw these once in a Popper etude I hated)
Parallel sixths are very comfy to play, even parallel tritones, but the distance between one's first finger and fourth finger on a cello is about a minor/major third (on a violin it's about an octave, on a double bass I believe it's a major second), so if you have several thirds in a row (measure 5-6, for example), you need to shift the position of your hand as many times as there are notes. And because they're thirds and not a perfect interval, you need to make sure each one is the right kind of third, minor or major. I haven't gotten into how the key makes this infinitely harder yet, but it seriously does
>>66172572
>tfw the fart anon from last night is still mocking me
>>66172572
i love it when a meme comes to together
>>66172738
fartposter 2 vs 0 shitposter
>>66172738
https://clyp.it/ozgmqas3
>>66172883
>>66172831
>>66172740
i-i-i just wanted to help dont make me a meme
>>66172919
TOO LATE
one sec I'm making a webm with >>66172883
>>66172572
>tfw you witnessed fartposter sforzando your mouth full with a double crescendo of peepeepoopoo
>>66172740
Thank
>>66172952
God
I guess 2016 isn't as bad as I thought it would be. Pic related from last thread.
>>66173023
>>66172952
I hate you guys so much
>>66173208
>>66173023
>>66172952
>>66172919
>>66172883
>>66172831
>>66172740
>>66172572
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yHV7bsnUDc
we have done something wonderful today
>>66173264
if yall want the webm go https://www.dropbox.com/s/3povi20ln6avoh7/fartposting.webm?dl=0
/mu/ doesn't alow webms with audio
kinda weird for the music board
>>66173264
>stream anon is in on it too
I thought bullying stopped after high school
*sforzandos on ur chest*
>>66172105
Now then, I'll just point out the biggest example of the difficulties in this cello part. In measure 14, you can finger the Eb Gb F on the D string with the index finger (1), pinkie (4) and ring finger (3) respectively. (You could also do it with the index finger (1), ring finger (3) and middle finger (2) but on the cello the 'normal' distance between 1 and 4 is a third whether that be a major or minor third, the distance between 1 and 2 is either a minor or major second, and the distance between 1 and 3 is either a major or augmented second. Basically what I'm saying is that 1 3 2 would be non-standard and 1 4 3 would be normal. That really doesn't have bearing on this though.)
Anyways, after you finger that, you have to get to the next note in the span of an eighth note. That note is a double-stop, a minor third (which requires the distance between 1 and 4 to be a major third for reasons that make sense when you visualize it). So this is going to be fingered with a 1 on Db on the G string and a 4 on Bb on the C string.
So we're moving from 1 4 3 on the D string, where Eb (1) is a minor second above open D, Gb (4) is a diminished fifth above open D, and the distance between 1 (Eb) and 4 (Gb) is a minor third, to 4 1 on the C and G strings respectively, where Db (1) is a diminished fifth above open G, Bb (4) is a minor seventh above open C, and the distance between 1 (Db) and 4 (Bb) is a major third (for reasons which, again, make sense if you visualize the situation).
So 1 moves a perfect fourth up the string and onto the next string over, 4 moves up an augmented fourth up the string and two strings over, and they must all land perfectly within the space of an eighth note.
Honestly a lot of these issues, though not all, seem like they'd be resolved by transposing it all up a halfstep to D Major.
>I've been working on detailed explanations of concepts I've only known about instinctively, and the rest of /comp/ has been sforzandoing
>>66173329
>>66173264
>>66173208
Welcome to the /comp/y crab how may I take your order?
Hi I'll take a large sforzando. to go.
That'll be one meme sir, please open your mouth.
>>66173385
>Gb (4) is a diminished fifth above open D
whoops, I meant a diminished fourth.
>>66173385
You fail to recognize the greatness in /comp/'s masterpiece.
>>66171896
Woah I created a dank new may may
https://clyp.it/40th55z4
>>66172697
>>66173385
Thanks guys! saved
_______________________
Should I keep going with this /comp/?
https://clyp.it/vbgg3pst
>>66173525
meant for
>>66173023
>>66173525
Needs some sforzandi. I kinda like your string writing but I feel like your piano accompaniment is all over the place, especially in measure 5.
>>66173525
Er, make sure you save >>66173432 as well
>>66173601
I'll rework that piano then, I kinda want the part in 5 to be like a transition period, kinda like how if a rap song modulates and turn tables start spinning for a measure or two right before but it could definitely not be so lazy
Is it generally safe to write for strings as long as you stick to single notes without too many jumps? No weird idiosyncrasies like horns might have for certain keys?
>>66173766
Yes. You have to take in account the timbre of each note though. For instance, Db is not a very resonate key for strings because the lack of open strings. Most, if not every note is "fretted" (not sure if that's the right word)
G, D, A and E are the safest keys for string instruments. You must write in flat keys with reasonable prudence to balance timbre. If you have an idea in Db or Ab for a string quartet most of the time you should just put it a half step up unless you are specifically going for a "dull" or mellow tone.
I know you used to play guitar from the previous thread, so think in terms of that. An open C major chord will sound much better than a barred one. The same applies for violin, viola and violincello.
>>66173766
>Is it generally safe to write for strings as long as you stick to single notes without too many jumps?
Basically, be aware of the location of open strings, because you can jump to and from those at (almost) any time.
Choose keys with a bunch of open strings available.
If you choose keys that don't have a bunch of open strings available, you should be fine as long as you don't use double stops.
The easiest key on the cello/viola is D Major/minor, followed by G and C. The easiest on the violin is A Major/minor, followed by D and G for the same reason. Their relative keys aren't included in this list: B minor is pretty difficult even though it's the relative minor of D Major.
Watch this and look at how often they have to shift since it's in B minor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQLD_rPWXsE Despite that, look at how often the open strings are made use of.
(there's my daily shoehorning in of Janacek's Idyll.)
>>66172183
Didn't you hear that Terzetto posted here recently? It was glorious.
He wrote more than 'the planets' ya know
>>66174103
It's a meme to hate on Holst. People dislike him because he was neo-romanticism and /classical/ hates that shit because Rachmaninoff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRtmrjWsPE
He really wasn't that bad of a composer
>>66174103
The Planets are also great though.
>>66173967
>>66174047
Thanks guys!
>you should just put it a half step up unless you are specifically going for a "dull" or mellow tone.
This is something Beethoven did right? Modulate to those keys like c sharp so that he could modulate back? And if you are writing for a virtuosio should any jump really be ok?
>>66174103
I am aware. i've heard some real stinkers
Need recommendations for Japanese pianist, or any Asian pianist playing "asian" piano music.. think Yiruma.
Not new age please.
>>66167895
>learning theory is tedious and ultimately stifles creativity
Knowledge and creativity are separate.
Knowledge allows your creativity more options, and allows you to learn from all the masters of the last 500 years.
If anything, not knowing theory stifles your creativity. You can never graduate from "this seems to sound good" into creating coherent pieces that people will treasure for hundreds of years.
>>66174047
>caring if someone can actually play something nobody will ever play in an age of advanced DAWs
>>66174157
>if you are writing for a virtuosio should any jump really be ok?
If you are actually writing for a highly accomplished string player, you should communicate with her to see what she would be comfortable playing. The easiest way is just to inquire about problem passages. With jumps, a general rule is that easier to hear passages are easier to play.
>>66174157
Well, there's a difference between something written for a virtuoso and something written without regard for the idiosyncrasies of the instrument.
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7sFojuYMY
Listen to the part from 8:10 to 8:57. That is definitely a virtuosic passage, but if you shift it a half-step up or down it would be completely impossible to play.
>>66174263
Well, I was considering trying my hand at recording it 2bh, just to demonstrate how difficult it is to work with
>>66174203
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wgluFc-3gM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kDF3AG3Gp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLTqb-fMHIA
He has a few interesting pieces but a large load of his repertoire is pretty mediocre. He's nowhere near bad though
>>66174257
Why are you responding to the bait?
>>66174263
>DAWs
Real composers only use Pd or Max, family.
>>66174135
>The Dargasen
amazing. Why didn't I appreciate this stuff in my high school orchestra?
>>66174135
like the movement 5:30 just sounds like a total mess. Where the fuck did he get the second motif at 6:30 from? He's a film composer before film composers were a thing.
>>66174377
speaking of film composers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZf7T1w_pPg
(genuinely one of my favorites though)
Ah finally a thread more attuned to my taste.
What is everyones favorite key? Mine is F# Major.
>>66174715
C minor, closely followed by F# minor.
>>66174263
I thought even the prod guys thought midi sounded shit even on vstis. Maybe except for some electronic music, and even those use samples.
I found this really great documentary/short film about the Van Cliburn competition on youtube, I recommend you watch it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cNlvHr_lX2E
>>66174715
Db and G minor
>>66174715
>Staying in 1 key
>Thinking keys actually sound different in 12TET unless on an orchestra
Having a favorite key is a biiiit silly
>>66174803
most soundfonts for good DAWS are samples.
>>66174344
Name a contemporary of his who is "bad" then
>>66174934
I can't because bad composers are forgotten.
Name me a bad composer from the Classical era
>>66174994
Mozart
>>66174994
>Name me a bad composer from the Classical era
Muzio Clementi
Mozart said: "Clementi plays well, as far as execution with the right hand goes. His greatest strength lies in his passages in 3rds. Apart from that, he has not a kreuzer’s worth of taste or feeling – in short he is a mere mechanicus. Clementi is a charlatan, like all Italians."
>>66174934
Bridge
>>66174257
Pic related is so right, it's required for whenever someone in this thread goes off on theory because they don't want to put the effort in or something. I'm pretty much convinced that it's the same person at this point.
The St Matthew passion has some really beautiful writing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm1os4VzTgA
The part I'm meaning in particular is at 34:05
I'm not sure if pic is that specific part (its repeated a few times throughout the passion) but its the kind of choral writing I'm talking about
>>66175273
Whoops, *35:07
And that pic isn't quite correct for that part, must be a later iteration
>>66175273
Here's the correct score for the part at 35:07
Such smooth lines and a real sense of integrity - uplifting major section, then a struggling minor section, then back to the major section. Its like a larger scale tension and release than just the chord progression
>>66174715
C minor
>>66168455
>The fundamental frequency on the string all the harmonics
>Advanced
Wew lad, babbys undergraduate physics partial differential equations for acoustic engineers
>>66168712
i hear no talent at all here
>>66168715
Lyrical fag BTFO
this is honest advice, not even trolling or just hatin
>>66168831
You must be over 18 to post here
>>66171896
Euphoric title 2bh
>>66167403
I use Sibelius 8 for notation with the Kontakt 5 library that is made working with the help of a sound set from the sound set project. I use a Novation 66 key audiostation to input notes and stuff.
For my DAW I have Reaper with mostly standard plugins, but I also have the Komplete plugins (which are loev) and some special reverbs and saturation plugins.
My interface is Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 in case I wanna record something.
For sketching, I use my notebook lol. I don't need music systems, as I rarely come up with melodies and stuff that are _that_ concrete. Usually, I just come up with contours and rhythm and figure the rest out when I sit down to work later.
>>66174715
B minor. Everything seems to glow in B minor.
>>66174890
It really isn't, because unless you're working with instruments that don't have registers with different characters (struggling to come up with something, I guess we can say piano), choosing the right key will always be important to get the best out of a phrase. B minor for power chording electric guitars puts the tonic pretty low, but not so low it gets slurry and unintelligable, and also enables some important chords under it, like the dominant. It enables a register where you can get plenty of dark color while retaining the flexibility from keys whose tonic is higher up. It's like this for every instrument. Of course, the expedient key will always change depending on the mood etc. you're going for, BUT having an emotionally favorite key, e.g. that key that brings your favorite flavor out of the guitar, makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean you always have to use it, but having a weak spot for it is completely natural.
>>66177214
eh, keys dont really sound any different unless its on an orchestra where certain registers accentuate open strings or certain timbres.
Compared to pre 12TET days when keys really did sound markedly different, they're all sound pretty much the same. Doesn't mean you can't have a favorite, but you're essentially choosing the same product in a different packaging.
This guy demonstrates some different keys in non-equal temperaments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBt6APk21tU
One of the only examples I can find of this kind of thing. Composers tended to avoid the very flat and very sharp keys before equal temperament became a thing.
>>66177376
Did you completely not read my post? I literally demonstrated how it works for pretty much all instruments, regardless of temperament.
>>66177414
But anon, the entire point of equal temperament is that all keys sound the same. Pre equal temperament has drastically different sounding keys, but these days its much much milder. Register and timbre can change completely even within the same key, if you transpose everything up or down an octave, so its probably best to leave those factors out of a discussion about keys.
The only time keys have different "feelings" is in an amateur orchestra where players struggle with certain keys due to many stopped notes or awkward transposition. Certain keys will be less stable until they're rehearsed the piece well and no longer fumble the stops and notes.
The orchestra is the only time when keys will have slightly different colors, as certain instruments can't play certain notes, but composers can easily work around these limitations and make any key sound as dark or as bright as any other key.
>>66177376
>eh, keys dont really sound any different unless its on an orchestra where certain registers accentuate open strings or certain timbres.
>implying only orchestral instruments have registers
>>66177536
Most orchestral instruments are notoriously hard to re-tune, so are pretty much stuck with their range.
And like I said in >>66177529 composers can easily write around the limitation of each instruments range to make any key sound just as good as any other.
The main thing is string instruments become less stable of they're not playing a lot of open strings, but this isn't really an issue with professional performers who are well rehearsed in the specific piece.
>>66177529
Forget temperament for a minute and focus on this:
Let's say I have a melody that climbs from the tonic to the tonic an octave above in a major scale. Let's also say my instrument is a flute.
Now, how do I make this melody as intersting as possible? If I put it in G major, the melody can either
1) travel from the lowest register of the flute (G4) that is incredibly weak and hollow to the middle register (G5) where it sounds sweet and transparent, or
2) I can place it on the G5 in the middle register so that it starts sweet and goes into the brilliant, clear and bright upper register when it reaches G6.
No. 2 would be very effective, but as the flute's upper register starts at about A5, we can make the ascension even more effective by putting the piece in C major, so that the melody enters the brilliant upper register in the second half of the melody instead of the first. Now the melody will start on C5 and ascend the major scale upwards, entering the upper register when it comes to ~A5, saving the change in timbre for when we're closer to the finish line to preserve the excitement, and then let the last 3-4 notes be more and more brilliant as the melody reaches the C6.
So, do you see? Choosing C major over A major changes the whole sound of the melody. Instead of using the A major's possibilites for either a very dull sound or a very bright sound, we use C major's ability in this case to give us the best of both worlds while also enabling the melody's maximum musical impact.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with temperament. You can point to temperament, sure, and say that it would make keys more different. And it totally would. But you are ignoring other factors that make keys significant.
This isn't something that is only relevant in an orchestra. This goes for ALL instruments, because ALL instruments have ranges with different characteristics, and to exploit these rich differences in register, choosing a key is of utmost importance.
>>66175768
shit fair enough, I thought it was dense polyrhythms
>>66177718
In other words, while keys are not INHERENTLY special, they are special because of the character the ENABLE in different instruments. Therefore, it makes sense to have favorite keys, because maybe you're able to find a key that brings out a lot of nice details in the music you like to write. For example how I personally like B minor because of the colors it enables in a rock band, but how others, for example some metal bands, prefer E minor because then they can put the tonic (a place where you're bound to spend a lot of time) on the lowest note on the instrument to bring out the darkest colors possible.
>>66177718
*I mean G major, not A major
>>66177581
register and range are two different things. Range is given and static (in most cases) while registers refer to the different areas WITHIN that range that have different characteristics.
explain equal temperament and just intonation to a retard
i've read stuff and watched videos but literally don't get it at all
>>66178008
think of tuning fixed pitch instruments (so, mainly piano, because other instruments can have their pitch adjusted by embouchure, fingering, etc) like this thing. In ye olde days, we decided that we should align most of it correctly, and have some glaring weird intervals. This made playing in certain keys weird, and playing with distant modulations weird.
We have now decided to move everything to the point where it's all slightly "off" and nothing is perfectly in tune, but you can play in any key and modulate how you like. Again, only applying to fixed note instruments.
>>66178056
So why do some people argue for just intonation? Isn't it better to be able to modulate and use any key you want?
>>66178136
Okay so I screwed up my metaphor a bit. You can't actually get just intonation on a fixed pitch instrument, because "just" is relative. It's relative to the chord your playing, the key you're in, and sometimes even your voicing. So what earlier tuning systems strived to accomplish was to create a fixed pitch instrument temperament that was most accurate to just intonation in a specific key.
All non fixed pitch instruments playing together will play in just intonation, because that's what we hear as those intervals. In today's musical landscape, just and equal definitely coexist, and both have their strengths.
>>66178136
>>66178317
And for an example of how just intonation is subjective, imagine the chord A D G C. If you wanted to use just intonation to tune each of those 4ths perfectly, you would take the freq of A, let's call it 220, and multiply by 4/3 consecutively. So your C would have a freq of 521.5Hz. If instead you wanted to tune each note to A, i.e. tuning one note a 4th above A, one note a m7 above A, and one note a compound m3 above A, you value for C would be 528Hz. At that level it's hard or impossible to perceive, but you can imagine how this adds up if you want to write complex chords for a huge setting
>>66177718
of course instruments have different characters depending on register, and yes different keys sound different in the orchestra, but if you write with these limitations in mind, each key is going to have pretty much the same "character"
In any key you can still exploit any given register in an instrument, you just have to write to the limitations. Some keys suit certain instruments better, but the overall sound of each key is pretty similair, especially compared to the difference you get with JI and other non-equal temperaments.
You dont just transpose parts up or down to put them in a new key, you compose the part in that key, making use of the register as you see fit.
Some composers attach symbolic or sentimental qualities to keys, like Mahler's symbolism or Mozart's nostalgia, but these are pretty superfluous in our modern 12TET, professional player orchestral setting. I've never heard a serious composer say "I wrote X piece in Y key because that key sounds so bright!" a good composer can make a piece "bright" in any key.
Composers do think about the technical limitations of instruments and players, and this will have more of an influence on which key they chose rather than a certain "sound" of a key. Gone are the days of certain keys have very specific sounds. Those days are over since 12TET became a thing
>>66177769
Rock bands can easily re-tune their instruments though, even between songs provided you have a good tuner on hand. Orchestral players rarely have that luxury, save for the odd string scordatura. I personally played in standard D when I played in a death metal band, all strings 1 whole step down. Our bassist played in BDAD. Guitars really are some of the most flexible instruments when it comes to retuning.
>>66177818
...no shit
>>66174890
I dunno, they sound pretty different to me, but that's just because of my perfect pitch.
Honestly it's just in association with two pieces with those keys that my favorite pieces are C minor and F# minor
>>66178719
>but if you write with these limitations in mind, each key is going to have pretty much the same "character"
inherently yes, but they enable and disable different characters in the music, making choosing the right key for a given situation, regardless of instrumentation, important
>In any key you can still exploit any given register in an instrument
of course, but you're missing the point: even if you can exploit a certain register in general, the key still puts limitations on what kind of e.g. melodies you can write. Even if you utilize a brilliant register, you might be a minor third short of being able to reach the tonic above, which could be sad if you've found a lovely melody in your writing that utilizes that tonic. This is the reason you freaking modulate to a different key.
>You dont just transpose parts up or down to put them in a new key, you compose the part in that key, making use of the register as you see fit.
all composers have different approaches to this, but it's besides the point. Whether or not the key is selected before, after or in the middle of composing is irrelevant, the point is that the key AFFECTS THE SOUND, or rather enables certain kinds of sounds while restricting others.
>Some composers attach symbolic or sentimental qualities to keys
literally not what I'm talking about
>Rock bands can easily re-tune their instruments though
this is besides the point. even so, while a drop d can be a viable solution if you're one whole tone short, it's still just a whole tone of difference. if you need a fourth and drop to say B, the character changes yet again, and you get a different character than you would've gotten by simply playing in E
not to forget that different frequency ranges have different characteristics on top of all this, which is another aspect besides what registers are enabled.
>>66179026
cont'd
However, do what the fuck you want. If you want to ignore a whole aspect of orchestration then be my guest. I've thoroughly explained how it works, and if you're interested in understanding it, my explanation is there for you to read. I encourage others to read it as well. In any case, my point stands, having a favorite key is not silly.
>>66179026
>regardless of instrumentation,
lets go with this.
Regardless of instruments, keys all sound the same. Thats just 12TET.
Thats the core of my argument. Orchestration and choices you make there are a separate argument. I would say that you can get any timbre you want in any key. You wouldn't really choose a key for a specific "color" because those colors are always there, they dont change magically because you changed key.
I've read orchestration books and have been working with live performers for 5 years, no need to try to educate me on orchestration or the subtle variations in each instrument note to note. Every single note sounds sliiiightly different on every instrument, thats just the nature of acoustic instruments.
Now that we live in 12TET world, with professional players, you can't make a list of which keys sound like which "feeling" or "color" becuase with good writing and good players, you can make any "feeling" or "color in any key.
We might have to agree to disagree here, I'm interested though, have you heard many professional composers say "I chose X key because its so bright!" or "This key is so sad, so I chose it"? I know I certainly haven't.
So is there a key that is completely unbiased?
I know a lot of instruments get tuned differently (specially the winds) and sometimes transpose what is written, but, like in actual pitch.
Unbiased in terms of like no notes that get that special sound for being an open string, etc.
>>66179450
F# major I guess for a string orchestra, would technically have the most uniform, but also least resonant sound, which is definitely something you may want to go for.
As soon as you add other instruments though it becomes kind of impossible, because of things like the clarinet's throat tones
>>66179380
>Regardless of instruments, keys all sound the same. Thats just 12TET.
>Thats the core of my argument.
Trust me, anon, I get that. I understand you've just read intro to harmony 101 or something and in the temperament section saw the passage that went into on the "keys don't have magical properties!!!11!" subject and you got hung up on it. We all get that. There's no "brilliant key A major" or "warm key E major" or "triumphant Eb major". We all get that. That's a given. Nobody serious has believed that for over a hundred years. We get it. Ok? Now, with that established. Read our conversation again. We weren't talking about the same thing, but now we are. There are other things than temperament that affect how "brilliant" etc. a key sounds. Let me stop you there: yes, all keys are in theory equal with today's tuning, however, in practice, there are other aspects that have nothing to do with tuning that DO affect the sound.
I have not heard a composer go "I chose X key because it is so bright" but I have heard composers go "I chose G minor, because I wanted the violin to BURST up from the darkest part of its register to really drive the point home".
Do you get it now? You say that "with good writing you can make any "feeling" or "color in any key". Yes, and THIS is one of the ways in which how you do it.
>>66179694
>I understand you've just read intro to harmony 101 or something
no need to patronize, I finished my studies 4 years ago, and have been writing and working with performers ever since. Essentially you agree with me that there is no difference between keys. The only time a composer chooses a specific key is for ease of performance, or for amateur ensembles. In some rare cases like writing for a specific exotic instrument or writing a concerto or solo piece where you'll be using the absolute extremes of an instrument, you consider key more carefully, but apart from that, you can do whatever you like in any key.
You can still have violins "burst up from the darkest part of their register" without being in g minor. Those kind of coloristic choices shouldn't define what key you're writing in, unless you have planned an entire piece around some kind of open string figure, or very specific note at some instruments extreme, but those kind of situations are more rare.
>>66179450
All keys are equally "unbiased", but every instrument has a different character depending on which note is being played, so once you introduce real instruments, it really depends on the specifics, sometimes even the specific ensemble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJWwU48WEX8
how do I write something like this?
>>66180793
What about it do you like? Not memeing or saying it's bad, just what are you looking to get out of this piece and implant into your writing style?
>>66181072
I like the calculated immaturity of it, reminds me of Mozart's best. But it's more original, dunno how to put it in words. It should be intuitive, anyway.
>>66174715
All keys sound the same in equal temperament, ming mongs.
>>66174994
Beethoven.
>>66182519
In what way is Beethoven bad?
Have you even listened to his music?
>>66174135
>Rachmaninoff.
but rachmaninoff is good n-no?
>>66182911
B-but why
*
>>66181423
I think all of the calculated immaturity comes from extra-musical theme. It's very focussed and purposeful. I like this album because despite having a lot of pretentious elements like the digitized voice saying starbucks, it feels really genuine. I don't think there's a purely compositional way to extract that feeling, other than figuring out something you yourself want to say, or maybe that's not what you're talking about.
>>66182811
Yes Rachmaninoff is good. its a /classical/ meme to dislike him. His main issue was he was writing romantic music in a time when it really wasn't fashionable. If Rachmaninoff was working 100 years earlier, he would be considered a great romantic composer and no one would have any problem with him.
>>66183069
>>66183069
Thanks anon
>>66183332
I was being ironic, silly.
>>66183455
B-but
>>66168071
lmfao best bait in these threads yet
Man this thread is making me wish I had accepted music school back a couple years ago. If I had done that, most likely I would be on my way to some conservatory.
Instead, I fell for the CS meme and now I'm waiting for college to start..
Feels bad man.
>>66183962
You can still write music.
>>66184017
Yeah. On the bright side I won't be stuck teaching piano for the rest of my life.
There's still a tinge of regret though. I used to be able to play some of the etudes by Chopin but now I can barely play arpeggios.
>>66184066
Life is full of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
>>66184117
Oh and there's that weird thinking I had back then.. I'm not gonna play some dead man's music for the 843th time.. No fucking way, I'm not going to be essentially a cover artist.. To this day I still hold this weird mindset.
Why the fuck am I babbling away, argh.
>>66184218
That's a common feeling these days, wanting to be the composer. I do think most people are happier as interpreters of music they like, though. Creation (of anything admirable) is usually a great deal more painful than performance, with fewer rewards.
A quick search for Elliott Carter on YouTube reveals his most viewed video is the only one to reach 6 digits, ~125k.
>>66184218
I used to think that way about jazz music all the time. You know, cuz you play mostly jazz standards when in a jam session. I thought it was so weird to play the same thing over and over, but after a few times, I realized how different each rendition sounded. I know that's because of the improvisation mainly, which classical doesn't utilize, but I guess the different interpretations of a piece sound different, right?
>>66184378
Well it's certainly changing nowadays, with your rock bands and pop music and shit. I just wish we could have more people coming up on stage, playing their own music, rather than a interpretation of so and so piece that we all have heard a dozen times.
I wish there was a rockist approach to the classical setting.
>>66184458
Different interpretations do sound different yes, but you can only go so far by changing dynamics and tempo.. the notes remain the same ..
>>66184526
it's jazz my dude. sometimes the harmony, notes, time signature, feel and style all change
>>66184659
But if you approach jazz with a classical mindset, ya get big band compositions that don't do all that.
>>66184659
I'm talking about different interpretations of classical pieces. Whereby you follow the sheet music, either strictly or loosely.
>>66184526
Concertgoers (classical) don't want to listen to acclaimed 20th century composers, let alone what a random musician wants to show them. The shift in attitude you mention does exist, but there are two problems with it. First off, pieces generally enter the repertoire due to players, other players who recognize their importance and want to play them, not the composers, and you also need a willing audience.
Finally, Beethoven and Chopin recommended the study of Bach to their piano students. Nothing wrong with playing old music for instruction.
Tab reader for guitar here. Trying to go to Uni to study real classical guitar and learn music theory.
I want to transpose the courante, sarabande, minuet I/II, and gigue of Bachs first cello suite. I can already play the prelude and allemande, where do I start? Once I've transposed it into sheet music for guitar, I'll write a tab out as a cheat sheet, but practice with the sheet music on my new classical guitar.
Please help. Everytime I hear a cello play it its like someone is sexing my ears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGQLXRTl3Z0
>>66184779
>for instruction
And pleasure.
Is it just me or when listing to certain classical solo pieces (like the one above) does the tempo seem to be quite fluid?
>>66184908
>where do I start?
imslp.org
get the score, maybe even a MIDI file you can import into a DAW to see the notes if that helps.
>>66185175
he's playing it rubato and giving emphasis to certain notes, and using tempo to shape the phrasing.
>>66185175
Thats the beauty of solo pieces, you can take your time and play with as much rubato as you like. Slowing down around cadences is also very common in baroque music like Bach. If you play the endings at robotic tempo it sounds to abrupt, you want to milk those last couple of notes and slow down so the last chord is perfectly placed in time
>>66185215
I've noticed it a lot actually, in quite a few piano pieces, I just never knew the name for it, thanks anon
So with these variations are they being strung together in standard pop format with the DMaj going into the next variation's GMaj? Or will they be in standard variation format with each ending on a cadence and there being a pause before the next starts?
>>66185499
I'm stringing them together with a pause before the next one starts
>>66184908
Do you get the same experience (aural sex) with the guitar?
>>66183962
Bro, I also almost accepted music school but ended up going to a 4 year uni and graduating with a dual CS and Economics major.
I make bank but work long hours and don't have any music-related fulfillment in my life, feelsbadman.jpg.
Any music teachers/composers want to take me under their wing? I'll compensate you for your time.
>>66186581
What style do you want to learn
>>66186581
What are your goals, exactly?
>>66186670
>>66186678
My end-goal would be to learn how to score for film/video games, but I love learning and would be able to be able to read a score, hear it in my head, or be able to sit and create music. I have basic music theory (can read notation, know foundation scales, major and minor, and how to make them, along with some chord progressions), but beyond that, would love to dive deeper into why some musics work.
I get lost reading some of your feedbacks to each other unfortunately and would love to get to a level where I wouldn't haha.
>Want to write tonal answers
>Keep writing real answers
Trials and tribulations in fugue land
>>66184779
>Concertgoers (classical) don't want to listen to acclaimed 20th century composers
Thats not actually true, many concertgoers enjoy 20th century music.
>pieces generally enter the repertoire due to players
I think you'll find its more to do with conductors and the ensembles marketing department than players. Players play whatever they're paid to play.
Beethoven and Mozart fill seats, so we see a lot of them and other common practice music programmed in order to keep ensembles going financially. Contemporary and 20th century composers do sneak in, but often its left to contemporary ensembles who specialize in it to take up the slack.
>>66184066
D-on't do it to me anon, I am already on the edge of killing myself.
I listened to Verdi's Te Deum today. I fucking sang that piece in my choir but I was retarded back then and didn't appreciate it enough. I didn't even show up on the last concert in a big hall because I had a stupid exam in the other college (don't fall for the 2 parallel degrees meme, kids).
I listened to it today and almost cried how beautiful it is. That fucking pp to fff contrast near the beginning is orgasmic. And I missed it. And I missed everything else, 2 years have passed and I barely touch my instrument because the lack of time and depression, at least I have been trying myself in composition and music production.
Best years of my life spent in a boring college and if I get stuck in an office job I am kysing myself.
And what you said about how you regret - yes, I changed my opinions and looks completely in these 2 years of sorrow. If only there was a time machine... 22 and feeling like my time is already up.
And the worst thing is... People can read this and be understanding, but nobody can help me.
>>66168071
Honestly I just think this is highly disorganized and not that enjoyable. If the track had a theoretical background and certain parts of the piece sounded like this, it would be fine, but instead it's not listenable and I don't get any kind of finely conveyed imagery. The title also doesn't match up with the piece.
If a painter doesn't know how to shade properly, their paintings will appear flat and stale. When someone learns the definitive qualities of an art form they are more capable of conveying their ideas than those who are creating through trial and error. The only thing that stifles creativity is a lack of creativity, theory helps musicians to be efficient in their craft and to produce the exact sounds and feelings that they want the listener to experience.
>>66186968
It honestly feels like the dude just vomited some guitar tracks on top of each other. Most definitely an effort to troll people, no one can be that oblivious to how bad a track is.
>>66186832
I'd define 'many' as 'sufficient to make a living off', and that's not the case for most orchestras, say.
I'd also include conductors, yes.
>>66186935
>don't fall for the 2 parallel degrees meme, kids
really? how-come, I'm planning on doing music and teaching possibly at the same time
>>66186935
22 is like the start of your life. The best years are ahead.
Are there any women composers in this thread? Chicks that compose music are the best.
>>66187277
Lucky sevens mean the truth
>>66186935
Though, I'm scared too anon. I have to, /have to/ be a composer but I'm afraid that I'll get all this debt and not get to pay it back, musicians aren't exactly known for being well paid
My plan is to compose literally most of the day when I'm going to school for it but whatif that isn't enough? What if the people who run the place don't like me enough? If you do too good there's the chance of jealous people above you shitting on you which can and does happen. If I didn't do music I'd always wonder 'what if' though so I have no choice
>>66187125
This is probably the safest path right? So you can teach music at a college?
>>66187414
I have gender dysphoria but haven't transitioned yet
>>66187446
>I have gender dysphoria but haven't transitioned yet
You should keep the dick. Shemales are sexy.
>>66187446
Yeah I weighed up my options about my current BTEC college course for future career paths and decided that really the only way to get a stable income is teaching. Before I found music I wanted to be a history teacher anyway.
>>66187491
Traps have fucked with my head, probably made me bi desu
>>66187675
>Is there music phds?
Probably, phds are about research right? I could see someone having a phd in musical therapy or marketing like music in shops easing you to buy stuff.
And yeah don't be a degenerate, willy + boob is always the best combination though
>>66186741
You can feel free to email me at [email protected] and we can discuss lessons if you'd like.
>>66187807
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Musical_Arts
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Music
seems to exist but it isn't as formal as like a math degree, and seems to get handed out as an honorary thing
I know this is off topic
>trolling yik yak
>say I tried to buy weed on there and got arrested
>they ask his handle
>scroll through and find some druggy trying to get LSD and say it's him
>he shows up and accuses me of being a dude that sold him fake drugs
>super butt mad
glorious
Wait. Why are you faggots discussing trap shit
>>66188030
So are you an anime girl??
>>66189540
Yes. Yes I am.
What are some cool chord progs /comp/
Some jazzy stuff, no ii-V-I pls
>>66192194
i-iv-vii°-v-VI
>>66192194
I - II - III - IV - V - VI - VII - VIII
>>66192526
oh boy, that's next level shit
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Dd2YyzxEB0
>>66192194
what kind of jazz. are you looking for modern stuff or older stuff
>>66174715
Eb by far
>>66192526
>VIII
>>66196864
>not using octotonic scales
What are some good books on Medieval harmony?
>>66186581
The nice part is, you are probably going to be paid more than the average music grad.
So.. you most likely can afford nice things, maybe a grand piano, maybe a mic or two. That's my plan, make music my hobby which I spend money on.
Besides it's not like I hate CS.. I actually like it too.
What am I supposed to get out of Messiaen's early organ works? And what should I put in the genre tag?
What key should I put the Harp in if I have a chord progression of
Dm - F - C - Db
then
Dm - Eb - Dm - Eb - Cm
>>66200191
This should give you a quick overview of the basics for harp composing:
http://www.harpspectrum.org/harpworks/composing_for_harp/composing_for_harp.shtml
I'll just quote the author to answer your question:
"3. Best keys for the best sound: the ones that have the fewest levers/pedals engaged, because unengaged strings vibrate at their longest length and result in the richest tone. On the pedal harp that would be the key of Cb. (See Benjamin Britten’s Interlude from the “Ceremony of Carols”.)"
I have chronic tendonosis in both wrists, would trombone be playable for me? maybe I could still be in orchestra holy shit
>>66201179
Do you have any music related background?
>>66201571
I am autistic and think about music all day, can play guitar, piano, flute, and drums but not anymore because it hurts, I play harmonica and my singing is almost at the point I can perform with it under stress now
no 'background' but I'm taking theory and ear training soon
>>66201890
>harmonica
Are you fartanon? Also anything is possible with practice. Take some painkillers if it ends up getting unbearable.
>>66201890
I'm sorry to hear that your playing ability has to suffer from your condition.
I'm sure you already know many things about tendonosis treatment, but I found this a very nice read on musicians dealing with tendonosis.
http://www.voyagerrecords.com/artend.htm
Also, if you are going to learn a brass instrument, it's important that you train your lip muscles every day.
>>66201998
[spoiler]yes[/spoiler]
I'm actually lucky to have the the of tendonisis that the pain isn't too bad unless I use the wrists but I'm afraid I've gone off the deep end by taking ibuprofen then playing and lifting things repetitively at work. The damage is fucking exponential man
>>66202125
Thanks for the link, and how does one train their lips?
What do yall think of this phrase? It just got stuck in my head. I'm asking because it just seems weird to play one scale ascending then one descending, but I thought, hey, isn't this just the melodic minor with a raised third?
I'm just not so sure about it
>>66202280
I'm no brass player, but I would assume that you train lips best when playing your brass instrument.
Might want to get a second opinion from a brass player on this.
The only thing I can tell you from playing with amateur big bands is that the bad/beginner trumpet players would always complain about how their lips are tired after playing after a couple of songs, so we had to schedule the set list after them.
>>66202447
It's fun to laugh at specific detriments other instruments have. Like no matter how hard pianists try, they'll never be able to play microtonal
Anyone taking a minor in music? Is it any in depth at all?
>>66202432
It's boring when you're just running up and down a scale... A good phrase has more variety in intervals and should make sense harmonically leading from one chord to the next one.
>>66168071
I've never posted on mu before, but I want my first post to be this:
This is shit
>>66203171
It's also bait.
Do you know a website where one can find theoretical analysis of popular musicians?
For example, I want to know what progressions ABBA used the most.
>>66200191
this is pretty tough since you have a pedal change each chord. You have to start in F maj, then makes these pedal changes:
Dm (Db) F (Ab) C (Eb) Db (Dnat Anat) Eb Dm Eb Cm. Depending on the figure, and the tempo, this is too hard
>>66204118
https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab
It's more about functions rather than form, but you can easily tell what form the song uses.
>>66204182
>two different analysis philosophies on the same website.
That is really going to confuse beginners. Sometimes they use bVII to mean Bb in C minor, and sometimes they use VII.
