“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin
previous thread: >>66076789
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
Resources (full of lessons and some fake books):http://pastebin.com/RVDGYZ56
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #2 VARIATIONS July 1st - July 7th
Compose a section in a theme and variations based on the opening theme of In the Aeroplane Over The Sea. Keep your section to around the same length as the original (50 or so seconds).
Instrumentation: Violin + Piano
Instrumentation is constant so that at the end, I can stitch this together into a single piece.
To make this easier on me, please email me the midi when you're done [email protected] and I'll be producing it. If you can't give me midi because you only handwrite your music on egyptian parchment, email me the sheet music just incase i miss it itt
Please try to stick to starting and ending in G major (not necessarily the chord, but the key for sure)
POST theme and variations you like. post ideas for directions to take (don't feel compelled to write in any specific style). Post WIPs.
MIDI if you're lazy: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=01675490908115586209
>REMINDER
YouTube stream, /comp/ learning session 2, will be on Sunday, at 6PM US Central Time!
>>66114141
I guess I'll start this thread off by asking about the theme. Will it be just that in the recording, or will it have some kind of rudimentary accompaniment?
who /generative composition/ here?
https://soundcloud.com/krisena/lullaby-for-sofie-theme-and-variations
A theme and variations piece of my own. Not part of the contest, but maybe it could inspire.
>score
http://dump.no/files/63ed1b463c5d/Lullaby_for_Sofie%2C_Score.pdf
>try to get old theme and variations clyp to post it here
>archive down
>>66114227
>dat second variation
I love the choice of two music boxes as instruments, too
The third variation, with all the triplets, would be easier to notate in 9/8, also. Just in case you're using alot of triplets in another piece.
>>66114294
stop clearing your history anon. be proud of all the (cat videos)(i hate not having spoilers)
posting textbooks from last time
http://eisel.us/theory/Counterpoint.pdf
A book on the applications of counterpoint and musical forms primarily based on counterpoint.
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
A book on musical forms, from periods and sentences to binary and ternary form, to sonata form. Focuses more on melodic elements than harmonic. For anyone doing the challenge the chapter starting on page 95 is essential
Any good pdfs on basic jazz theory?
Preferably for drummers, but general stuff is welcome too
>>66114477
quads of dubs DEMANDS we find him one NOW
>>66114477
Found this the other day. Mostly Sax, but lots of misc. Jazz theory pdf:
http://antoshahaimovich.com/lessonsdownloadsen.htm
>>66114202
challenge poster here, I was going to write a very rudimentary accompaniment, if you'd like to though go ahead, I haven't started
>>66114477
These are good http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
Update
didn't do much
I'm composing transitions to put between the periods
https://clyp.it/qlt2odh5
We need to keep some of the links in the OP desu. The pastebin is nice, but people were already asking for things that were in the OP, with a pastebin people will constantly ask for the same resources over and over imo
>>66114141
Anyone else doubting the transcription? I guess the guy's voice in the recording makes it difficult.
>>66115956
alright. Fux's counterpoint is a must-have, obviously
What else should we put in the pasta?
>>66115983
I did the transcription, I'm pretty sure that all the pitches are correct, but I definitely simplified a lot of the rhythms. If you think some pitches are off let me know and I'll change them
>>66116171
Not him but
The first one of each 8 bar phrase really sounds like a B to me, not a D.
>>66116038
Rimsky-Korsakov orchestration portal. That shit is ace.
Musescore is nice. One of the theory websites would also be great.
>>66116171
Something about bar 4 feels weird. It sounds right but also wrong. I don't know. Was just wondering if anyone else thought so.
What about that Elaine Gould's book "Behind Bars"?
Is it a meme? or is it THE real thing?
>>66114141
>Post WIPs
I don't know anything about violin, can someone please tell me these double stops are possible?
Also, any feedback in general welcome.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s182xjerh1Ql
Why is no one making a prod thread?
>>66118537
yeah, you can double stop on a violin
>>66118537
Those double stops don't look too bad, except maybe the P4
What kind of accompaniment should I put in the left hand for a slow melody in octaves in the right on piano? Going for a wide open feel
Need a critique. Its classical guitar and piano. Ignore the ending, because its unfinished bass line and I chopped off the last thirty seconds of rambling. Improv autist.
https://clyp.it/24qtlbr5
https://clyp.it/5j1ftfxz
[farting intensifies]
>>66121022
Is this a joke piece? Those piano chords are nowhere near playable and all the dynamic markings in the beginning could be achieved with a simple diminuendo and crescendo.
>>66121205
Thank you fren, now can you tell me, how am I ever to write farts into my score!?!?!?!?
https://clyp.it/4iittsht
This sounding okay? No /Prod/ atm, so I figured I'd ask here.
It's just a simple loop for a song I'm working on senpai.
No samples. Used nothing but synths, even for the drums.
>>66121323
I don't fuckin know try this
>>66121205
Ok fren I have taken your advices and utilized them!!
>>66121593
I dunno if I'd want the soprano farting, I mean, i thin the bass would have bassier farts, that just makes sense right? I mean, unless we want sweet smelling girl farts but that wuld be at like, the climax or something
>>66121690
*brrt*
https://clyp.it/aozslghf
>>66121711
>>66121690
Avoid fourth double-stops on string instruments. Also if you want a fart sound a sforzando might work.
>>66121690
What instrument do you play by the way? I'm assuming guitar
>>66120682
This is shit and you are shit. Uninstall musescore you pretentious autistic faggot.
>>66121022
1/10 for making me reply.
>>66121423
>literally everyone works with fart meme man instead of listening to anons stuff and helping him
I'm going with the gravy train on this one anon
Fart man, please send some wet noodle farts to my dreams tonight.
Also you:
>>66120682
Stick to pop songs on your acoustic. I doubt you even play classical guitar or piano. Pic related, what you should be doing.
>>66121884
What's a fourth double stop and why should I avoid it? [actually serious] and what does sforzando represent? Buzzing your lips?
>>66121904
I used to but now just harmonica sadly
>>66121993
WOAH DUDE MEAN I bet u cant even compuse fgt
*sforzandos in ur direction*
>>66122017
If a solo string player plays more than one note it is considered a double-stop. Fourths (an interval of a fourth e.g. C to F) is hard due to fingering.
A sforzando is a very loud and abrupt accent on a note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDTgj_69JKA
The first note of Scriabin's 5th sonata is a great example. It's marked sfp but it means the same thing as sfz.
Also I highly recommend buying some kind of keyboard instrument if you want to compose
>>66122096
oh shit yes please give me more
*opens mouth*
I want to feel your sforzandos and crescendos deep in my throat, I want to cry and choke on your wet noodley farts. I am fart noodle.
Fill me with the sound of musical fart.
>>66121993
>>literally everyone works with fart meme man instead of listening to anons stuff and helping him
Because theres really nothing to say. Sounds like typical electronic music to me.
What's wrong with a little late night shitposting?
>>66122181
This is a thread of progression. Take your shitposting to another board, please.
>>66122103
Thanks anon, I remember thougb when I played flute in band sometimes we'd have one person play top notes and one bottom; should I just avoid that all together? should I and when do I decide to split an instrument into different sections?
And I have tendonosis. I have to learn to do it all in my head, though I'm going to go to college for sight singing soon
>>66122168
[farts seductively]
https://clyp.it/1zdg2ytx
>>66122209
I kno rite
>the composition challenge is to write memeclassical
no thanks
>>66120682
bump, should I just shoot myself with the cannon like anon said? Is it really that bad? I have trouble telling since its my own work I guess. Its not something I would listen to so theres that hint...
>>66122362
Start is bad, rhythm is great, parts where it speeds up are nice
I'd move some of the notes around
>>66122362
Also, I can see a lot of potential I can feel the emotion you want to elicit, just keep working at it canon anon is being a big meanie, remember: the more you fuck with it the better you get. Even Mozart must have turned out turds before he shat gold
>>66122719
>>66122415
Thank you anon sincerely appreciate it. Going to get to work. Lots of shits to be taken.
>>66119659
please respond
>>66123469
Depends on the style, what are you aiming for.
>>66123549
Classical type style, something like the largo from Dvorak's 9th
>>66123549
Halfs or quarters two octaves down. One note and always root. Try that. And I'm assuming here the right hand is not only halfs and quarters.
>>66123905
Meant for >>66123664
>>66123905
No, the right has halves, quarters, dotted quarters, eighths, dotted eighths, and sixteenths. The accompaniment I had this far was just eighths starting on the root (except in cases of purposeful inversions) playing 'root-third-fifth-third' then back. I thought it was too simple though. Then there are strings below playing halves and wholes and quarters mainly.
>>66124170
Show me.
>>66124215
It's on my desktop which I won't have access to until Monday, but I tried to recreate most of it here. It's a bit longer, I think 16 bars in total but I stopped when my memory grew hazy. The harmony should be right too but there may be a minor mistake somewhere.
>>66124439
Try with root-fifth-tenth-third first, and see if it fits. Also move the right hand one octave up.
https://clyp.it/0ad5myvo
Does /comp/ likes jazz improvisation?
>>66119291
What about sixths? Would it be easier if the D in the last measure was an F?
>>66118537
They look okay. Be aware that the hand position must be changed between bar 6 and 7.
>>66121884
>>66122103
That is not true. I think you're thinking of a 5th. The 4th is really easy on the violin and viola. Whether or not they sound good is another matter, but they're nice in the middle of passages.
>>66122340
You're just going to write a variation, not necessarily in one of the classical styles. You could write it like rock or swing if you want to.
The thing is, you generally avoid 5ths on strings in orchestral music or other music that will sight-read by the players. If it's in solo or chamber music, you can use whatever stops you fancy, because the player has time to practice them. There are plenty of 5ths and 4ths in the string reportoire. I would maybe avoid the 5ths on the cello though, I'd imagine they'd be harder to pull off.
THIS is why you read scores. You see what's allowed and what isn't.
>>66125377
anon, strings are tuned in 5ths. Playing a 5th is the easiest interval there is on a violin/viola/cello. I've heard professional string players say playing perfect 4ths is "less stable" it not hard, its just not going to sound as amazing and pure as a perfect fourth should.
In the recording of my 4th string quartet the part with a 4th sounded awful and unstable, although with some good rehearsal and preparation and a great player they will still be passable.
If anyone is unsure about which intervals are tough to play on string intruments, get a fingerbaord like pic related and compare the 2 notes you want played. If there's a space of more than 1 or 2 notes, its probably going to be difficult to get on pitch, and the player will have to adjust as they play it, listening to both notes and making minor corrections.
>>66120682
it's really hard to hear what you're trying to do. Technically, nothing is awful. your counterpoint needs more work, especially the rhythm. Going from 16th notes to quarter notes in awkward places ruins the flow of the piece and your lines. But, again, nothing bad. What makes it bad is there's nothing really to take away from this, you should focus on, especially as a beginner composer, on figuring out something that a listener can latch on to. A good, clear melody. A good accompaniment motif. An interested rhythm. Something to push you through the piece that you can develop and reference
>>66125883
Heh, yes, they are tuned in fifths, that's exactly what makes playing fifths difficult, because you have to do it with one finger on both strings. I play the violin, so I can guarantee you that 4ths are pretty darn trivial. All double stops with intervals within and including the octave are completely doable, however, you do have to be mindful of which position the hand is in at all times, so it doesn't get unecessarily quirky.
>>66121423
compositionally, I think in the space of that time. it wants to change chords. The rhythm of your wubbing is really awkward, especially to the end of its loop. It really drags the groove of the piece backward, Learn the rhythm of your wubs and try clapping them, and you'll see they don't really make sense.
>>66126491
This is what I was looking for.
I'm trying to learn how to control the speed using the LFO filter on the synth. I'm just being autistic as fuck trying to make them move and groove the right way. And Ableton's automation is pretty shitty with the soft synth I'm using.
I'll try and throw a chord change in there.
Thanks anon
>>66125883
>>66126369
>>66125377
Thanks for the input guys. I would guess that the E's are fine because of the open string. I think I would still continue with changing the last D into F# though since it also sound nice. I'll probably be looking at that fingering chart thing for a while.
learn something new everyday lol
>>66126785
>I would guess that the E's are fine because of the open string.
You have to be aware than the open E string sounds realy metallic when you play on it open. In baroque music, this is part of the style, but you should listen to some music that uses the open E string to see if you want that sound. It does stick out a bit. However, you can play it in the third position with the second finger and play the second voice with the 4th and 1st fingers, and then go down into first position in bar 7.
>>66126842
On the A and D strings, for clarification.
Constructive criticism on this phrase?
Want to make sure I'm getting the basics correct, and not making any glaring mistakes.
(I'm new to this stuff)
https://clyp.it/pkn2p1v3
>>66127372
try singing it, then the most glaring missteps will become obvious.
>>66127372
Is it a bunch of random notes? It sounds like a bunch of random notes.
Thanks to the anons from yesterday for giving me feedback.
I did some changes, but am still not satisfied with bars 9-16 so I am definitely looking for suggestions for these bars.
The changes I've made are:
- Order of chords
- Bass should be better (I hope)
- slight changes to the melody
- bpm from 150 to 170
- scrapped the second part
Current version:
https://clyp.it/annjnm50
Old version:
https://clyp.it/gulzsbnl
>>66127404
I don't understand where I am actually going wrong, is the 7th jump too much?
It's frustrating being wrong and not know what is wrong
>>66127439
Cool. You coudl try having some syncopated chord changes. Feels a bit straight forward now.
>>66127470
it's a dimished 8th (d sharp to d). Later on, a majop second up followed by an augmented unison down. An augmented 2nd in the last bar, so in term of melody line, it's not very melodic (1. weird intervals and 2. huge jumps).
A huge jump is less of a problem between two different phrase, but within one phrase, jumps bigger than a 4th or 5th can tear the phrase apart.
Through all those chromatic alterations, the harmonic basis becomes unclear, making the melody sound like a buncha random notes that nave been blindly chosen on a piano.
>>66127578
Looks like I need to go back to my intervals then, would it still sound shit without the accidentals?
Here's my attempt to take on the /comp/ challenge.
I know the last part wasn't part of the challenge, but I always liked it in the original recording.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s19brSbQz5UM
>>66127607
really depends on what you wanna have.
If you want something atonal, stick with what you have. If you want something that is melodic and cantabile, better stick to regular scales and pick alterations very carefully.
Taking the accidentals away only makes your melody less atonal, but it still won't be good. Now the jump is even bigger, but at lesart brs 2 and 3 are okay, I'd append a C in a 5th bar to give it more of an ending.
>>66127372
since you are new, I would to diatonic melodies until you're more comfortable. You're close to C minor, use the 3 flats key signature, change D# to an Eb, get rid of your E natural. You can use B naturals when you're ascending, otherwise use B flat, read up on melodic minor. Congrats to you though for thinking about your melody first. I would add a note in the 2nd beat of bar 3, just so the rhythm is not awkward.
REMINDER:
YouTube stream over harmony in about ten hours
6PM, US Central Time
I'll post the link shortly before it starts
>>66127439
That sounds way better. You voicing for Abmaj7 is a little weird with the #11 on the bottom of the voicing. I would swap the positions of the C and D within that voicing. I think the problem you're hearing in bar 11 might be the melodic disagreement, you should probably be using a Db, and then in the next bar you can use F7b13, just make sure you change it in the piano part too.
I think this is going well, what I'd like to see is a different tonicized area now. In bar 16 you can play F-7 Bb7 and then go to a B section in Eb, that would be a very typical thing to do. Slap on a contrasting melody, come back to Bb after 8 bars, and I think you'd have a good head. Of course you don't have to go to Eb, you could also try going to Ab, or doing something weirder and cyclical, like the bridge to Have you met miss jones.
>>66127439
Wouldn't it sound better with the drums playing pic related?
What is the classical term for a composition that comprises of several small songs?
>>66128003
you mean a suite? That can be a collection of any kinda piece. Or do you mean real songs, performed by a singer? In that case I'd probably use the term cycle.
>>66127726
>>66127736
Does this flow better?
There is probably something wrong with this too, but I think it sounds alright for a novice's work. I think I'll end up learning violin because it's such a beautiful sounding instrument.
https://clyp.it/oi3c4oug
>>66128038
Kind of like an overture, small musical themes here and there, but problem is I'm not writing an overture or a prelude to anything, it's an original piece that comprises of short musical themes.
>>66128043
better.
>>66128054
Then it's a suite. Or, if the pieces are more coherent than just a fairly random collection of pieces, you can call it a concerto, or concertino, if it has a maximum of 4 movements. Otherwise, a suite works fine, see Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker suite with excerpts of musical numbers from his ballet.
>>66128150
Alright suite it will be.
Or I could just forgo all this terminology and give it a title, it's not classical music after all.
>>66114477
https://kat.cr/music-theory-ebook-collection-t6350695.html
>>66128175
If it's not classical music, there's isn't any point in naming it after a classical form
>>66114427
>>66114552
>>66115860
>>66128489
>>66115956
>>66116038
>>66116374
Current paste:
/comp/ Composition Gnereal
Pasta:
“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin
previous thread: >>########
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
THEORY
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Arnold Schcoenberg's "Fundementals of Music Composition"
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
IMPROVISATION
>Fake books for jazz and blues soloing
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzW9o5O35hQzMzA0ZmI0MWEtZGFmNi00OTQ0LWI2MjMtOWUyNzgyNmUzNzNm&usp=drive_web&ddrp=1&hl=en#
STUFF /COMP/ DOES
>the /comp/ YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA
>the /comp/ weekly challenge
[email protected]
Other resources (full of lessons and books): http://pastebin.com/k3xddxwr
This completely loses me at the part where the voicing changes and goes to ii-V-I
What is "hipper voicing"?
http://www.timusic.net/2013/09/jazzpart1/#.V3kg8vkrLIU
>>66129986
less closed. check this example. which sounds better, and with more opprotunities to take?
https://clyp.it/w2cqlgmf
>>66130153
Is it kind of in the same vain as an inversion?
Just you spread the chord over more keys?
>>66130203
Depends. In that register (from c to c'') I'd to with <c g b e'> unless you really want the b in the top voice, but since you notated chords, I assume the soprano note is deliberate.
>>66130203
You can do an inversion, but you can also spread the notes out. You ould play a C chord with the c an octave down, or with the E an octave up. In first inversion, you could double the root. All are types of voicings.
>>66124983
You should work on your picking technique. It gets very sloppy once you go fast.
"Planting" your pick on the next string before you play it should do the trick.
>>66130301
So how in the context of the webpage I linked would I voice an F#min7 (without the 5th) for this melody?
I was thinking that I could use the E# in the treble clef for the chord, the notes would be F# A E right?
Sorry for the basic questions
>>66130750
You don't need a fifth. That's why the webpage says take it out. The 3rd and the 7th are the important notes (and the root, of course)
>>66130891
So like this?
This could be my next hobby.
Noob question: what are some daws with sheet music support?
>>66130944
I would add a ninth. Make it jazzier.
How do you comment the Beatles who didn't even know how to read music while music theorists analyse their works day and night?
>>66131117
I like their songs.
>>66131053
Logic Pro, Cubase.
>>66131137
Thanks.
>>66131108
Thanks anon, will post progress when finished
>>66131117
They still didn't write songs on par with Schubert or Strauss.
The only people who analyze the Beatles are those interested in popular music. read: no serious musicologist ever
Bump for thread still alive
>>66125377
>I imagine they're harder to pull off
Well, whether they're hard or easy really depends on a lot of different factors. In first position they're easy as shit, you can just bar them, though too many in rapid succession and they really start to wear. In higher positions they should be avoided, though high enough and you can finagle them by twisting the hand slightly.
In addition, there are some intervals of doublestops you don't want going before a fifth, or going after. (For example, if you go from an E on the A string and a A on the D string to an E on the A string and a G on the D string. In order to go from an AE to a GE, you have to remove the entire finger that's barring them, then set the new fingers. So it's difficult to slur the two doublestops or do any sort of phrasing between them.)
Well, if you don't have much knowledge of the cello, it would probably be easier to not bother with fifths anyway. It's not because they're hard, rather they're way too contextual.
>>66130335
What about the solo itself, specifically the choice of notes?
I do agree my picking is very sloppy, I'm coming from a shred background where I usually use hammer ons and pull off.
>>66125377
Also, fourths are usually dreaded in string player circles not for being difficult to play but difficult to tune.
Whats wrong with this?
https://clyp.it/n4iz0gfx
>>66132008
The composer.
>>66132025
lol ok https://clyp.it/snk3x5ca
:^)
>>66127965
>guitar pro
>>66132008
>>66132058
pay better attention to the strength of the note striking, also the vocals are mishmashed and kinda just thrown on top without any regard for their effect
>>66132567
what do you mean by strength of the note stricking? like the dynamics? Thanks anon
I'll probably just delete the voices and put them at one measure at a time really spread out
>>66114410
Here it is.
https://clyp.it/15rtkgio
sheet:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/1a44p6jo6t16wvf/variations_christmas.pdf
An unfinished theme and variations for unaccompanied cello. It's been 7 months, I should really get around to finishing it. Also should get around to making a recording that's in tune.
>>66133313
This'll be my third comment in a row, but
Does anyone have good examples of theme and variations for violin + piano?
bump for stream in less than four hours
for real this time
I hear the melody of ITAOTS as this. This is really screwing with me, but I'm pretty sure this is right, at least regarding the pitches.
Why are you guys only posting music sheet? You trying to fuck with me because I don't have a perfect pitch? If I can't go to my instrument those notes mean shit to me. Post recordings please.
>>66134715
No. The whole point is to fuck with you.
>>66134715
2deep4u
>>66134775
>>66134779
Stop ruining these generals.
>>66134898
I think they should probably fug off with the rudeness, but reading Mozart's biography, I'm really sure if he were in the thread he'd be playing along with the immature jokes
>>66134715
>only posting sheet music
I think I found two posts that have no sheet music, one of them is unpitched percussion and the other is the melody of a well known /mu/ meme that's the theme of the current challenge.
>>66135013
>no sheet music
*no recording
>>66131944
Honestly it sounds fine. If you really wanna be nitpicky about the choice of notes you should transcribe the solo and check if your voice leading is correct.
Here's an accompaniment for the theme, if this is acceptable.
https://clyp.it/yidzlg3o
It's easy to play, so anyone could record it much better than a midi. Emulated the guitar in the original. These articulations were for the midi right hand to not overwhelm the left hand as it usually does with block chords.
>>66135657
oh, also, it's not the same thing every four chords, I changed it a little bit in the third and fourth phrases.
Yet another set of three posts in a row.
Should we string the variations together like strophes in strophic form? Or more traditionally with a pause between each? I guess it depends on the variations people write.
>tfw no one here
>>66136405
I'm here anon, but I'm a complete beginner so I really can't help
>>66127372
If you just slurred the delivery you'd get away with that
>>66137807
stream soon I suppose?
>>66137850
ONE HOUR
>>66137850
hope so
Is the streamer going to upload the stream after the fact as a video?
Just thinking if anyone misses anything
>tfw will never play this good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0_gw2Lillg
>>66138000
He did so last time.
>>66138010
>Kodaliy
didn't this guy invent hand signs for solfege or somthing?
>>66138040
Link to it please?
>>66138069
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA
>>66138010
Damn.
>>66138146
Thanks anon
guys i have a question about scordatura
do you write the pitches of what the notes would be if normally tuned or do you write the exact pitch?
>>66138044
He invented a whole pedagogic method in Hungary.
>>66137925
>>66137980
>>66138000
>>66138040
>>66138069
>>66138146
>>66138173
Everyone wondering about the stream, don't worry.
I'll post the link to the live stream shortly before it begins, and a video of it will be made public after the fact.
>>66138207
Wikipedia:
>It is common to notate the finger position as if played in regular tuning, while the actual pitch resulting is altered (scordatura notation)
Apparently so. I'd find it slightly weird, but then I've never played anything with scordatura before.
I'd take this as an either way works, just include some sort of note explaining whether or not it's in scordatura notation or not.
>>66138277
>whether or not it's in scordatura notation or not
I'm tired
>>66138209
How does this work? Everything sounds the same to me.
>really an alto player
>trying to compose for piano
>tried 12 tone serialism or whatever
>i was really into cage and schoenberg
>12 tone didnt work out
>instead im doing something involving 3 key centers
Help me /mu/
My piece isnt notated yet, but basically there is this repeating 4 bar figure in c, but a melody in e flat plays over that for 8 bars then switches to 16 bar dissonant chord progression
What the fuck am i doing help
>>66138265
Wait, scratch that, it's the other way around. The live stream is public but the archive is unlisted.
>>66138391
Polymodality
Look at Holst
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_DsQFfehGE
20 min to stream
STREAM
Link:http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA/live
cmon /mu/tants
>>66139148
I can see, would comment but lolnodoxtyvm
bump for streaming now
>>66139942
fairly basic yet. I'll tune in when we arrive at modulation through enharmonics, cause I need to get better at that.
There is no /classical/ so I'll ask here
I know practically nothing about music theory (i know a little bit about sonata form, something about tonalities, tonics, (de)crescendo etc but I still have massive gaps). So, is Copland's "What to Listen for in Music" a decent starting point? If not, which book would you recommend to a newfag?
>>66140029
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Theory-Lifestyle-Paperback/dp/1592574378/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467588580&sr=8-1&keywords=complete+idiot+music+theory
>>66140029
A decent starting point for music theory? It's more tipped towards music appreciation, but it's a good read nevertheless.
ouch, where do they teach down wards inversions?? that's pretty weird.
so when your descending fiths, they ae all major chords? or dominant 7s?
>>66140534
They can be either one. They can be minor if you wanted to try that. Dominant sevenths are the most blatant in terms of telling a listener what's going on though
Thanks for the stream, but I couldn't help but notice that the inversions and figures bass notation was off. See attached pic, inversions move the bottom note up one octave.
>>66140534
they can be whatever you like. But if you want to stay in a certain key, you just use the very notes of that key and use the chords as they come in that scale. Either as normal chords or with added 7th
>>66140610
Aye, mate. Sorry for the confusion; I never learned actual figured bass. My teacher just taught me inversions and the notation was kind of a side note.
>>66140121
>music appreciation
That's what I actually want at the moment. Thank you, I'll read it.
>>66140081
Thank you too, but I don't really feel comfortable with owning a book that calls me a complete idiot.
>>66140711
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Jokes/dp/1592575382/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1467590280&sr=8-5&keywords=complete+idiot+guide+to+humor
>>66140656
no probs, at least for the 6/4 it's pretty obvious. you have a 4th from the bottom note to the middle note. and a 6th from the bottom note to the top note. That's all.
For 7th, the 6/5 and 4/3 notation indicate, where the "tension" within the chord lies if you count from the bottom note. Also, the 4/2 chord is often noted as just 2.
I had to go through that for my organ exams, but outside baroque music, you won't need it.
Another comprehensive table with inversions and figures numbers for the very beginners.
>>66140795
Figured bass is so fucking stupid and confusing. You'd think after all this time there would be an easier way of writing inversions.
>>66140849
there is. Chord name followes by bass note, separated by a slash
>>66140849
Just keep in mind the bass and the intervals between the other notes and it's simple.
>>66140656
>>66140610
I changed the notes to fix this error, by the way. Redownload them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vkvklvmvjrplb2/comp%20session%202.zip?dl=0
And here's the archived video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoFRwPcZ_uk
Skip to 8:50 for the lesson
Didn't catch the entire stream, just a few questions on notation:
1) What about extensions such as 9's, etc?
2) Also, what about open voicings?
>>66140534
>>66140601
Just adding this demonstration:
https://clyp.it/cwuulwzr
>>66140985
>>66141011
I dont understand why something like this wouldn't work
r = Root position
a = 1st inversion
b = 2nd inversion
c = 3rd inversion
For instance C(r) = CEG
or G7(b) = DFGB
>>66141057
I covered voicings. Extensions will be in a lesson on more complex harmony, after the next two. The next is on melody, then structure and form, then more harmony
>>66141128
It does. Read the notes, that is a system that has gained popularity.
http://www.musictheoryacademy.com/understanding-music/chord-inversions/
>>66141128
>>66141184
Uh, try not to introduce any more ambiguities, though
The standard system with letters is
a = root
b = 1st
c = 2nd
d = 3rd
Basically, figured bass was designed for players of basso continuo back in the day, who would have to make up their parts on the fly based on the figured bass notation. (There's a neat book by Haydn if you want to learn to do this yourself, I'd recommend it.) In that context, figured bass is essential.
Outside of it, while the system of CMaj/E or such does have its uses, if you want to write something in functional harmony independently of its key, for example
I V64 I6 ii6 I64 V I
you can't very well write
I V/D I/E ii/F I/G V I
, it wouldn't make much sense.
The letter system would work more or less fine, but this kind of notation is often accompanied by analysis of phrases, like periods and sentences, in which case "a" and "b" start to have multiple meanings.
>>66114094
i have sib 6 and how do imake the crescendo thing?
>>66141478
> functional harmony independently of its key
yeah, so the use cases are
1. Play actual figures bass
=> figures bass numbers
2. Play actual chords
=> chordnames
3. Functional analysis
=> Roman literals with figured bass numbers.
>>66141478
>Haydn
whoops, Handel
>>66141496
highlight and press H. Shift + H for decresc. For a long way around, these are under "Lines" which you can press L for.
>>66124983
This is quite good. Somebody has already mentioned the picking stuff, so thats ok. I like the way you make and release tension, but pardon me if I am wrong, or are you also using a lot of licks? This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but in a lot of jazz culture, being a lick player can be looked down upon. Overall, I liked it a lot. Keep on working, and I would love to hear more from ya :)
bumpin
>but in a lot of jazz culture, being a lick player can be looked down upon
Really? Damn it. I'm tryin to go from the blues into jazz. I thought jazz pianists used lots of licks? I only dabble in the keys myself
>>66142910
Depends from person to person. Me personally doesnt see a problem with it, aslong as you use it right. Most of the time people won't realize that you use licks if you are really good.
You should know that this is usually happens at jam sessions with strangers and such. If you are playing just to entertain some people at a bar gig or w/e, nobody gives shit, as long as it sounds good.
When I play jazz piano I too only play something and hope that it sounds good, I dont know any licks or such. But I don't really focus on jazz piano, as I mainly play bass, and I just used to play piano from 5-8th grade, and all my skills in jazz are self learnt.
Learning licks is good nonetheless tho, because it helps for phrasing. As long as you know how to use it. Why some people look down upon lick users is because they dont see any skills behind it, which I can understand, but it really just boils down to if it sounds good or not.
was looking for /prod/ but I think this will help. Im looking for a place where I can get free MIDI grooves that I can drop right into logic pro. I'm not a drummer but I feel like if I had some grooves to mess around with I might be able to come up with something
Here, have some improv on the cello: https://clyp.it/eb0prj24
Posted here entirely without reviewing it myself, before I can change my mind
I'm writing a Run Run Run cover for my band (2 classical guitars + 1 acoustic bass).
What do you think of this section?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s13dtMf2bmUI
>>66145199
Oh clearly you can ignore the last seconds, I was just jamming.
r8 my piece outa 10. not finished though, where i stopped im gonna transition to another theme and then a final theme which will be a combination of both. ignore the empty oboe, im thinking of something. also i need more info on how to transition since i actually dont really know what im doing/ doing by ear.
https://clyp.it/qkdputjw
>>66114227
That was really nice. I enjoyed it a lot. I think section D was my favorite.
>>66144654
how long have you been playing
>>66145829
A decade and a half or so.
>>66127372
this is some next level atonal shit.
in all seriousness though, if you really don't know what you're doing, you have to learn your scales and chords and stuff. you're not even stay in a key, you're just everywhere. learn a progression and try to compose around it
is this a new general? this is pretty awesome, been wanting something like this for a while, not really sure why it's completely classically focused though, wish there was more jazz/any other genre.
i love classical but it's a bit rigid
>>66127372
>https://clyp.it/pkn2p1v3
If you want it to be that atonal you're on the right track. The ends of the 2 phrases are weird though. You end both on short notes which sounds weird. Maybe end them on quarter notes unless you're going for an unsettling effect.
>>66146499
>classical is rigid
When will this meme die?
Also 'jazz/any other genre' is shit.
>>66146717
it's not a meme, it's my opinion. it's rigid because this thread is full of people trying to emulate baroque/classical styles, which are outdated and boring as fuck, and this is coming from a fan of all classical music.
moving forward is not a bad thing. also if you don't think classical is rigid you know nothing about theory. i wrote a fugue once, there are countless counterpoint rules to follow, it's the most rigid musical genre by far. if you get past baroque and classical into romantic or 20th century stuff it's obviously less rigid but that's not what i see itt.
>'jazz/any other genre' is shit
now this is a good meme. go jack off to haydn you autist
>>66127439
Are those piano chords voice lead out chorale style? It seems kinda odd. It's not really idiosyncratic. The voicings sound nice, but they still feel kinda off ya know.
I like the melody the first 8 bars is real strong. Maybe add some more passing tones in measure 11. The melody mostly sticks to the changes. If you add in some non chord tones you might get some better color out of that measure.
>>66146831
>there are countless counterpoint rules to follow, it's the most rigid musical genre by far
That's like saying roller coasters are rigid because they ask you to keep your arms and legs in the ride at all times. It's not rigidity, it's basic common fucking sense. Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
>>66146831
I'm not the person you replied to, but it's kinda hard for people in this thread to write music that doesn't sound classical. Most people here don't really have composing chops and it's far easier to write music that conforms to old standards then make up something new or even forward thinking.
>>66146933
>That's like saying roller coasters are rigid because they ask you to keep your arms and legs in the ride at all times. It's not rigidity, it's basic common fucking sense
no it's not, you're just proving you don't know much about theory. adhering to outdated baroque techniques like not using the tritone and staying away from parallel movement is just stupid and conservative for no reason. there's a reason baroque music sounds outdated and sterile nowadays
>>66146936
yeah that's exactly my point. i'm not hating on people for being new to composing and doing what sounds familiar, i'm just saying it would be interesting if we had more experimental stuff in this thread, since to be honest it's not the hardest thing in the world to write a baroque piano piece
>>66147046
If it counts, some guy asked how to incorporate farts in his music earlier.
>>66147046
ya well idk if this is run before, but i'm sure it could happen. I wanna use some more 20th century stuff in mine, but i've already scrapped a few ideas because I couldn't make them fit. It also doesn't help that i've never written a theme and variation before.
>>66147129
there you go, innovation comes in many forms
>>66147046
I know more about theory than you ever will, kid. That you claim avoiding parallel motion is stupid shows YOU know nothing about music. Baroque music is not sterile, it is some of God's greatest music to ever grace man. It's your shit like pop that sounds sterile, soulless and commercial, artistically and culturally bankrupt.
>>66147046
>it's not the hardest thing in the world to write a baroque piano piece
it is if its a 6 voice fugue.
I dont know about other anons but I'm very familiar with contemporary techniques, and immensely enjoy 20th century music. Its just that I want to write music that really sounds good in a traditional sense. Music my grandmother would enjoy listening to. The other composers call me a "romantic" because I like renaissance vocal music and major cadences!
There are some very interesting pieces being written with serialist and sonorist sensibilities, and often with live electronics which seems to be the latest fad (although Ferneyhough had been doing this since the 70s), and everyone has their own individual style. It just so happens that my style has become neo-baroque or neo-renaissance. When I write for full orchestra I'm still pretty neo-romantic, although Martinů is one of my favorite orchestral composers and some of his color and lush orchestration comes through in my work.
I think its great people are discussing inversions and tonal harmony here. A lot of composers these days just abandon it and float aimlessly in the sea of atonality and uncertainty, not sure if what they're writing is what people want to hear.
>>66147215
>God's greatest music to ever grace man. It's your shit like pop that sounds sterile, soulless and commercial, artistically and culturally bankrupt.
Spooked much?
>>66147215
this is some embarrassing stuff desu. also i wasn't calling baroque shit, some of it is great. what i was saying is that most of it sounds very very dated nowadays, and for good reason. i'm not calling parallel motion bad in and of itself, i'm criticizing the rigidity of baroque convention. it's exhausting to have to play by specific rules even when you think of something that might sound cool/interesting and you can't use it because some guy in the church said an augmented fourth reminds him of the devil
>>66147227
>a 6 voice fugue
pretty rare even by bach standards but i get your point. and yeah i respect traditionalism and i get why you'd want to do that, but it's just not my thing really. i do prefer neo-romantic to neo-baroque/renaissance
and yes it is nice that people are talking about theory here, that's my favorite part of this thread, i hope this shit continues. i was just criticizing a certain aspect of it
for what it's worth, i find atonal music even more boring
>>66146260
how long have you been practicing?
>>66147340
Actually it's the diminished fifth that's supposed to be evil pham. I know they're enharmonic but I think I've actually heard a #4 in a perotin piece
>>66147453
like you said, they're enharmonic, so they're both forbidden familia. link me the perotin piece
>>66147512
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI6e4Q11NeM
I swear on my life I hear it at 2:47. Could be a singing mistake or simply Perotin being cheeky
>>66147594
sounds like a mistake by the singer, as they were repeating a phrase.
>>66147594
could you notate it do you think? i really don't hear it at all.
>>66147674
No can do. My piano is out for repair
>>66147674
I hear it, sounds like they wer gonna sing a g sharp - c sharp, and the lower voice hit a g by mistake. Or whatever those tones are in pre-baroque pitch.
Does this modulation from c maj to Db maj sound weird?
https://clyp.it/pqtbbvsn
Here's my setting of the melody for lack of a better term. Now I just need some variations. It sounds pretty classical so far, so I'm kinda hoping to move towards something closer to my actual tastes in the variation, but we'll see.
I'm still very much winging this.
Audio in sweet sweet midi: https://clyp.it/wzoupjq3
>>66147782
and here's page 2
>>66147719
>>66147698
so it sounds like the high voice is doing c#-d#-e-f#, then b-c#-d#-e, and the lower voice is doing c#-f#, b-e. where is the tritone here? idk what i'm missing. i'm ignoring the lower drone obviously
>>66147782
sounds like a country song
>>66147892
the lower voice is supposed to be a perfect 4th below (parallel organum of 4th), and when they repeat the sequence, the singer of the organum hits g by mistake instead of g sharp (4th below c sharp)
So I'm trying to write a nocturne and I was thinking of this as the main theme, then I thought I could put it somewhere else in the peice (ternary form piece, I was thinking this could be in the B section), then I was like fuck it, let me ask /comp/ about it before composing anything else. No dynamics or nothing, just the moosics
https://clyp.it/yfzgabmp
>>66148209
i stand corrected. According to the sheet, the lower voice was to sing a perfect 5th below the middle voice, but ended up so sharp, that it sounded more like a flat 4th.
>>66147390
A decade and a half or so?
You mean today? It was three hours, although two of those hours were improvising. I didn't practice yesterday or the day before, though
>>66148380
how much did your cello cost? where/how did you learn? what other instruments do you play? how difficult is the instrument? who do you look up to?
>>66148437
Why are you interrogating the poor guy?
>>66148437
Not him, but my cousin is a professional cellist player and his cost around 100.000€.
>>66148483
you mean $100,000?
100K?
why, and are you rich?
>>66148321
I like it. The first phrase doesn't seem very nocturney to me though. The second one seems a lot more nocturne. I particularly like beats 3 and 4 of measure 7. I tended to like the more chromatic moments in there. I know you shouldn't over due chromatics, but maybe considering adding some more.
>>66148562
Yeah. The second phrase was from some old scribbles I dug back up, that I had never really used for anything. The first just isn't as inspired.
>>66148437
I'm not him, but
Cello's are expensive
You're going to need private instruction if you want to learn it
Most people who play cello might know some piano
Cello is pretty hard. Especially playing in tune consistently.
Everyone should look up to yo yo ma
>>66148608
>yo yo ma
I dont know, I'd prefer if peoples idols were Casals, Maisky or Du Pre. I can't take yo yo ma seriously with that broad smile
>>66148528
Yes 100k.
Not rich, but he was considered an upcoming talent, playing in big orchestras only at 16, so his mother took out a loan to pay for it.
>>66135657
Pop/punk progression is NEVER acceptable
>>66148650
Ya but he's a fantastic musician. Even so music is fun and I think smiling and enjoying yourself is important.
>>66138598
sounds like that theme from what, Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra?
>>66138598
dang that piece is beautiful
>all those fugal entries
>>66148682
We're doing a variations on a pop theme, and those are the chords and rhythm that are in the original.
If it's the variations it should aim to be more varied, I agree, but this is the theme we're talking about.
>>66124983
>>66131944
Also one thing you can do to spice up your soloing is to add some chords.
For example when you are descending from the V to the I, striking the I on the first beat shows that you think about the changes while playing.
I think it's a good habit to pick up especially for guitarists to imitate pianists and to avoid excessive noodling.
>>66148437
Other anons have more or less answered the other questions sufficiently already, but
Jacqueline du Pre is one
I quite like Mischa Maisky
Rostopovich is okay, I guess, but I kind of dislike the way he interprets, for example, the Bach cello suites.
>>66149778
but how hard is the violin, viola, double bass? anyone here play those?
pic unrelate
As soon as these generals gained more popularity the quality of the content went down the drain
>>66145808
>>66114410
Thank you both for listening, senpaitachi
>>66147746
Third chord sounds a bit weird maybe, but once you're into something like this, suddenly everything sounds alright. A direct modulation from one major key to the key a minor second above seems common in Japanese music these days. It's exotic and doesn't really require preparation.
>>66150754
By direct do you mean jumping straight from one key to the other without any bridging chords?
>>66151211
Yes, like
Fmaj7 G6 C9 Am9 Gbmaj7 Ab6 Db9 Bbm9
