Do you think it's possible for gays to be accepted in a society that discriminates in other ways, such as against religions or ethnicities, or can gay acceptance only occur in a society with universal non-discrimination?
Asking here because I wouldn't get any serious responses on /pol/.
Judging by historical precedents, it doesn't seem like any one form of bigotry is necessarily always accompanied by others. I guess discrimination against sexual minorities stems largely (if not entirely) from how puritanical a society's culture is. For instance, Japan was pretty accepting of homosexuality in historical times because the country was always largely non-religious, but as a result of post-WW2 Western influence, the practice of homosexuality was briefly outlawed.
Yeah, definitely. Most notably, tere's a group of gay Neo-Nazis in Russia and there's plenty of precedent involving other groups. For instance, there are groups that absolutely hate white people, but accept LGBT people (i.e. a black natonality student group at the colegendary I went to).
Gays can only be accepted in societies that discriminate against religions and any ethnicities that discriminate against gays. Curious that you would leave out the only choice that's logically and morally correct.
>>6565059
Please, please, please read Voltaire.
>>6565071
If Voltaire disagreed with me, than he's a lying cunt, and I don't care what he said. If he agreed with me, it wouldn't change how I think in any way either.
Yes, in Israel
Sure. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
People will always be prejudiced, but the objects of their prejudice can and have changed over time.
>>6564982
I'm going to wager probably not for other reasons, but I'll tell you the social justice response:
>We want things to be good for gay people
>Allowing racism to persist means non-white gay people will still be victimised
>Therefore you're not actually fighting for gay people, you're only fighting for white gay people
Fill in for other minority groups as applicable. This doesn't account for the fact that the gays wouldn't be being victimised because of homophobia but for other reasons. This is why people say e.g. "suffragettes weren't feminists" because they didn't care about black women getting the vote, just white women, so weren't fighting for the rights of all women.
Generally speaking though, as I've said, the historical baggage of right aligned groups generally comes with a dollop of homophobia. >>6565082 raises an interesting point, but it's worth noting that the Orthodox Jews decidedly do NOT like the gays, and they're growing in number massively in Israel because they keep having giant families. Israel likes the gays for now, but they go out of their way to like the gays as it gives them a stick to beat surrounding countries with by going "look how tolerant we are compared to you backwards cunts".
I guess in theory it would be possible to have a "I hate non whites, but gays are cool" movement, and there's certainly individuals who would meet that, but I don't know if anywhere in the West would likely come up with it on its own. France is probably a good candidate, as something like 1/4 of Le Front Nationale's votes in Paris came from gays, but then there were also plenty of French who don't like the gays and protested about it. America has too much cultural baggage from Evangelical Christianity for it to credibly happen there anytime soon.
>>6564982
Yes, during the periods before, and even after, the great schism the byzantine empire and western countries constantly persecuted reformists, heretics, and muslims but largely ignored the issue of sodomy
also a lot of contemporary rightish groups typically focus on rehashing some sort of völkisch/natalist image, with a wholesome return to men looking after women and women raising children. Depending on the culture this takes many forms, but for example in America the whole "make America great again" often entails returning to a Leave-It-To-Beaver vision of 50's America with rigid gender norms, Mom cooking dinner while Dad mows the lawn and their three beautiful children play in the street with their labrador.
Fags don't really fit into this image, although if you really pushed the image of a nice wholesome gay couple who are married and raise a child it /might/ kinda work (although, again, Christianity). Trannies probably wouldn't fit into that image though. The stealth ones might be able to fit in there somewhere, but for every stealth there's three hons and that doesn't sit well with the American people.
>>6564982
No because homosexuality is inherently degenerate
Oswald Spengler wrote about this almost a century ago
>>6565203
He won the biggest landslide at that time because his camp had perfected modern vote rigging before the Democrats and because he was a movie star with a supposed big dick.
I don't want to live in such society. There are gays in all ethnicities. My bf is from Syria. I doubt neither of us would be welcome in white nationalist utopia.
>>6564982
Yes, just look at the far right in the Netherlands.
>>6565359
There's obviously a middle ground between those two. Lrn2logic.
>>6565359
What the fuck are you talking about. I'm happy to live in Western free world with human rights. White nationalists don't like freedom. They're not different than fundamental Islamists.
>>6564982
>possible
Hypothetically yes.
>likely
About as likely as a unicorn.
>>6565382
You seem to think that all Syrians are Muslims when it was secular society before regime change. Why do you think my bf came here?
>>6565399
>while complaining that West is literally the devil oppressing poor innocent Muslims.
Where did I say this? It's literally the opposite. The white nationalists hate the current Western society because of the freedom.
>>6564982
yes, it's possible.
>>6564982
>society with universal non-discrimination
I honestly don't think this is something achievable and I would say at some point some discrimination &/or prejudice is desirable. You don't want to be so open minded that your brain falls out. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" is a form of discrimination. I don't want to go to a restaurant and sit in a chair that someone's naked ass was just sitting on (San Fransisco protests a few years back).
I would say the best answer probably lies in discrimination based on someone's behavior. Right now, I believe gay men account for a significantly higher mount of STDs in the US and young black men account for a high percentage of violent crime in the US. Both are public health risks and are a danger to a free and open society. Targeting these groups to modify their behavior is a form of discrimination that I'm ok with. The problem is there are gay men that aren't poz sluts and there are young black men that aren't gangstas and you don't want these individuals caught in your dragnet. Probably self-policing from within is the best answer but the problem is both these groups are doing crap jobs of this right now. But this is what happens in a free society, if people do not police themselves then eventually someone else will step in and police it for them. You will deservingly loose the freedom you once had.
>>6565059
>Gays can only be accepted in societies that discriminate against religions and any ethnicities that discriminate against gays.
USSR, Communist China, Cuba all have terrible histories regarding homosexuals
>>6565419
You can ask Nordic Resistance Movement what they think about that homosexuals.
>>6565335
>just look at the far right in the Netherlands.
The far right in the Netherlands doesn't take kindly to gay people.
Just because they're nowhere as bad as muslims, doesn't mean they're ok with it.
No, Wilders isn't actually far right.
>>6565382
What about individual cases?
>>6565408
>tinfoil hat increases
>>6565444
People here seem to think that Wilders etc. represent far-right/white nationalists. Well they do not, real white nationalists like Nordic Resistance hate Wilders, Sweden Democrats etc. because they're "too liberal". They have nothing to do with healthy nationalism or Western democracy, and some get played by Russia too. And no they don't accept homosexuals.
>>6565399
>And only AfD is full on Nazi in regards to their program.
pic related is in the AFD and living with her girlfriend. Once asked about mariage and that this is not in the program, she said that you cant make politic for 1% of the germans.
>>6564982
I first thought I saw /pol/ bait thread on the front page, but apparently there's a literal gay baby jail board
Kek when did this happen
>>6565505
Except legalizing it is a really small step
They're losing a lot of potential voters
>>6565203
Well absolutely, that's a solid platform for a right aligned group, but Reagan's administration and that spiel was massively bolstered by groups like the Moral Majority who were vehemently anti gay and I don't think you can exactly say the Reagan administration was pro gay. I'm not saying that a right aligned political party would struggle to gain support with a "let's go back to the 50s" stance, I'm saying that this sort of stance isn't really compatible with LGBT people, which is what OP was asking.
>>6565309
No, I wouldn't want to live in that society either. It's just an interesting thought experiment to imagine if modern society could produce a rightist nationalist group that is compatible with LGBT people, or even just gay people.
My best bet would probably still be France. Marie Le Pen is overseeing a traditionally homophobic Front Nationale but its younger members are rather different and generally amenable to gay people, and gays are voting FN in droves. Pic related is Matthieu Chartraire, who won a beauty competition in Tetu as Mr Gay 2014 despite being vocal in his support of Front Nationale (Tetu said that he had bad politics but they were literally running a beauty pageant so they wouldn't disqualify him... and he still won)
>>6565513
Jesus Christ I lurked for about 10 minutes; it's glaringly obvious that 90% of the people here suffer from some sort of mental illness
What the fuck it's depressing as fuck
Is there a way to filter entire boards?
>>6565665
>What the fuck it's depressing as fuck
What the fuck did you expect?
>Is there a way to filter entire boards?
Yes. Not visiting them.
>>6565513
Was that comment even in english
>>6565665
Use 4chan like a normal person by going on the boards you like and disregarding the front page
It's not difficult
You don't see people on /ck/ or /vr/ bitching about this sort of stuff
>>6565665
>>6565513
yes, we are all disgusting and mentally ill fag-o-sexuals on this board. May I suggest a board that is much more suited to the tastes of a discerning heterosexual such at yourself? You will surely find much more suitable material in quality threads such as those here:
>>>/fit/37925342
>>6565959
Your conceptions of some sort of a master plan is
>>6566024
Rats don't have any sort of master plan when they get into your cellar. Still they going to eat your fucking potatoes though.
>>6566051
Wonderful analogy, friend
>>6565500
Extremists don't decide who belongs to what political spectrum. Wilder's belongs to the far right, he's just not a neo-Nazi.
>>6566314
>Wilder's belongs to the far right
No he doesn't.
His only far right stances are on immigration, islam and the EU.
On everything else he shares his stance with the left.
And being anti-EU is something that's brewing on the left as well.
>>6565429
yeah i dont think there are any prominent nationalist groups that are pro-LGBT at all. their priorities are having nuclear single ethnic families that follow "traditional" roles. gays, lesbians, and trans people don't fit into that so even if they're white they're an enemy of the movement
>>6566730
enemies? or just not significant enough to matter one way or the other?
>>6566769
Sure, they're fine with it if you don't ever talk about it and basically stay in closet and preferably make white babies with white woman too. But homosexuality is against their ideas of "natural order" and they also see it as Jewish influenced degeneracy. Finnish Resistance Movement attacked gay Pride with tear gas in 2010 so I think it matters some way.
But I'm not worried about them because they're vocal minority and very bad at organizing.
>>6566769
i'd say enemies, because they think they would need to control and protect the people, and anyone outed as gay or trans or what have you would be dealt with as a threat to their ideal society. they're could be underground LGBT groups, but thats not very accepting is it
>>6566373
Not really. If you wanna be a little bitch about it, he stands somewhere between right-wing and far-right on most issues. He doesn't melt at the sight of a black person, so I guess he's pretty liberal?
>>6565236
REMOVE THIS !!!!!!
