http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/oralargument/audio/15-2859USAv.OnePalmettoetal.mp3
How about you sumarize...
>>29498532
I liked that part where the court asked the government attorney if there was any means of compensation for the build costs, since the ATF screwed up and approved it.
>well yes there is your honor, he could submit a claim, but it would be denied rather quickly
>man argues poorly, often not finishing, and sometimes doing himself disservice
>court argues trifling semantics
>government shill acts like government shill
>0 progress made
>>29498765
>0 progress
bureaucracy triumphs again
>>29498570
We made valid points based on facts, the ATF was all "muh feels
>>29498532
So is it over? Did we lose?
ITS ALL OGRE NO MORE GUNS ALL GUNS ARE EFFECTIVELY BANNED 5EVER
>>29499454
No the court is now going to decide and give a ruling in it.
>>29499631
>No, the court is now going to decide and give a ruling in it and then we lose. Then we appeal to a higher court & start over.
>FTFY
>>29499667
Its pretty inevitable but its mind boggling
They have no legal reason to deny this but they will because of muh feels
>>29499681
Or maybe it's because the man presenting the argument was a clown
>>29499686
That's still muh feels though
>he's right but I don't like him because he's a knob
>>29498532
He is arguing
a) Federal government is overstepping their consitutional limitations and violating the rights of its citizens with the post-86 MG ban
b) That his form 1 to manufacture a machinegun was arbitrarily denied
Both of these are accurate. There is nothing in the consitution allowing our federal government the ability to regulate firearms in private hands. And considering previous interpretations by the supreme court and the historical evidence backing the 2nd amendment, whereby the people had the same armaments as the military and the people and the militia was one in the same.
Also, the NFA and laws thereafter states NO WHERE that a trust cant manufacture a post-86 machinegun with the proper forms filed and taxes paid.
The ATF has thus created a de facto ban by rejecting the manufacture of new machine guns despite that ability not being granted to them anywhere in the law.
So pretty much the powers that be will make sure the ATF prevails. There is too much power and money behind the gun control lobby, and too many people benefit from keeping us disarmed and weak.
The man may not be personally likeable but every point he made has been accurate and valid and based of logical argument.
ATF has literally gone in with an emotional rhetoric approach which just shows that gun controllers literally cannot argue.
>>29499792
So...this was basically just an excuse for the ATF to close the registry forever?
We need another McVeigh if we lose this shit
>>29499816
The ATF had no excuse to "close the registry"
post-86 machineguns legally should have been handled exactly like SBRs
Whereby a trust can own them if they get form approval and the tax paid.
ATF is literally overstepping even what the guncontrollers gave them the power to do.
>>29499837
McVeigh did the exact opposite for whatever cause he was reportedly a part of.
Helped along with Waco give the "liberals" ammunition to pass further encroachments on our rights.
>>29499859
McVeigh made the gun grabbers shit themselves because he used fertilizer and race fuel, not guns
>>29499859
And the more rights get encroached, the more McVeighs we get
It'll work eventually
>>29499837
We need mass disobedience, if these laws are unconsitutional and if the last line of defense (the Supreme Court) cannot or refuses to try the case, its up to us to fix the mass fuckup that is the NFA and War on Guns.
We need gunstores saying fuck you to the ATF, individuals selling what they like how they like, and we need mass protests to show that any more encroachment on our civil liberties by the state and federal government will result in a very angry and very armed population removing these politicians forcibly.
I can only imagine our founders spinning in their graves at the cattlelike and complacent population who has willingly given up their civil rights that were so hard fought for.
>>29499879
Killing children at daycare has never been an effective way to garnish public support.
I have no problem with revolutionary acts against apparent tyranny but there is an issue with murdering women and children in an office building.
>>29499931
Domestic terrorism is never going to help us here.
>>29499931
Never said he helped gather public support, but he sure as fuck didnt create a push for more gun control
>>29499931
Funny bit is this is why third world brown people hate us too. America is basically McVeigh to the poorer world.
>>29499792
A great deal of money and power in the pro gun rights...
>>29499691
Not really. If you present a shitty argument then the topic you intended to support is no longer reputable
>>29500280
Please describe why its a shitty argument.
>>29501016
The link is there, listen for yourself.
>>29500270
Really, where?
Pro gun is a people's funded grassroot campaign
The antis are funded by nazi collaborators like Soros and fat cat democratic politcians
>>29499900
We should grab our nuggets, flecktarn, and march on Washington.
>>29501278
Damn straight
Except maybe not on washington unless you can guarantee an overwhelming turnout
look what happened to Adam kokesh for videotaping himself with a shotgun in the PR of DC
>>29501255
I did and it sounds fine please describe whats wrong with it.
The longer this case goes on the more it seems like they will be forced to open the machine gun registry... As with every piece of pro-gun legislation, I am super pessimistic about it passing and do not want to get my hopes up in the slightest, but it's getting harder not to...
>Hughes Amendment will die in your lifetime
>>29501436
No it wont
give me a single case of rights being returned after being given up
>>29501445
I like how the Semi auto ban from 1994 is still in effect.
>>29501445
Also
>given up
I think the terminology you mean is 'stolen away by tyrants with an agenda'.
>>29501478
Only because it had a set expiration date
>>29501486
Yes your right
>>29501445
Well, there have been a couple of handgun ban overturns.
Not much but it's something
>>29499879
>McVeigh made the gun grabbers shit themselves because he used fertilizer and race fuel, not guns
Which once again shows that an idiot with a Uhaul full of gasoline and chicken shit will always get the 'high score' over an idiot with a salt gun.
>>29501292
Yeah that's the one problem I can't seem to come up with a solution to. It would be sweet to get 100,000 gun owners marching in front of the white house.
>>29501436
MY face if Hughes dies..
>>29501445
alcohol
>>29498532
Are all of the hearings audio recorded?
>>29501445
Brazil is about to loosen up a shit load of its ownership laws
>>29501904
You hit that anon so hard I heard it from here.
>>29501445
This is not a right, but just as an example.
Queer marriage.
>>29502980
Kek
what's the first machine gun you'll get if the ban is lifted?
an mp5k is my first purchase bar none.
>>29503110
an FAMAS
>>29503110
I'd have 4 stamps filed immediately to convert ARs and AKs
then I'd go out and buy a 93R
>>29503110
>implying you could afford an HK brand MP5k
I'd put a third hole in my AR lower and buy a Glock selector plate.
>>29503110
Nothing. I'd wait a couple months for the spree buyers to go away.
>>29503110
Tax stamp my akm..
Tax stamp my ptr
Cum
Tax Stamp my ar
Build another AR and tax stamp it
Cum some more
> then go about buying assloads of auto sears and ar lowers tax stamping each one so that when the inevitable ban comes ill be set
> should i start a trust?
>>29503110
I'd bide my time by doing what others said and converting an AR to full auto... once the 12 year wait for tax stamps had passed.
>>29503110
I'd start small
>>29501436
>mfw
>>29503619
What is going on here?
>>29499900
Yes yes, the same founders who shit all over our veterans and promises made to them in the period immediately following the revolution, leading to the Shays Rebellion and the killing of Luke Day Jr.
>>29503110
Id get my AR lower converted to full fun and get whatever I need to have my glocks select fire
>>29503667
a really happy dog
>>29503110
Buy another vepr in 54r and tax stamp it for conversion
>>29503667
a pitbull in heaven because it's about to kill a herd of cows with its locking jaws and high capacity bite pressure.
>>29499900
this. well said.
>>29503110
Where do I start?
A glock selector plate and a full retard Galil for starters at least.
>>29501616
>20 secret service agents die without a shot fired from heart attacks and brain aneurysms caused by the stress of having to deal with 100k peaceful gun owners.
>republicans won't nominate garland, the biggest rules nazi in the judiciary
>case will end 4-4
>we will have to wait many more years for another chance
>>29501445
Constitutional Carry is being passed in multiple states.
>>29503958
The only hope in my professional opinion of us getting out of this mess is
a) revolution or constitutional convention
b) state nullification of illegal federal laws
I think b is the best option but we have to keep electing good people into our offices and stop focusing on the national level where shit does not get done.
Btw everywhere here needs to run for local office especially if you believe strongly in our 2nd amendment and civil liberties.
We need a state with the Cajones to say "Lol fuck your NFA nigger" and arrest any federal agents operating in or violating state law.
>>29499667
>No, the court is now going to decide and give a ruling on it and then we probably lose. But either way, the decision is appealed until it eventually reaches the supreme court just in time for the 5th liberal to join the court and then we definitely lose.
FTFY
>>29504017
The supreme court will not hear any 2nd amendment cases anymore.
Its all in the hands of the states and the people to nullify the illegal laws.
>>29503138
>>29503183
Why would you need a stamp?
>>29504062
Because based on current law you would need a stamp for a post-86 MG just like your SBR
>>29501436
Won't help us cuckifornians unfortunately. Our only hope is an R win this election, the supreme court is the only chance we have
>>29504000
>We need a state with the Cajones to say "Lol fuck your NFA nigger" and arrest any federal agents operating in or violating state law.
Montana has done this with the Montana Firearms Freedom Act. The butthurt from the feds was and still is immense.
>>29499900
Just so that NSA is aware of this, we're all speaking in hypotheticals.
Our founders had trouble with the distance between themselves and King George. The American people now do not have that problem. Instead of shooting innocent people in random, ineffective attacks, maybe taking out corrupt politicians is the way to go.
In such a hypothetical situation, I think it could be argued that removal of corrupt politicians by force by the people that those politicians have betrayed is the most effective means to ensure that the others don't even attempt to toe the line.
Not that I want to sound like an edgelord here, but people shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people. They are here to serve us, they are not lords and kings and we are not their serfs. Perhaps they need to be reminded of that.
>>29504111
Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, everyone in congress is there by popular mandate, so it's not the will of the people to remove them.
>>29504167
That doesn't apply to the executive branch of the government though. It is by far the most bloated branch and full of bureaucrats.
>>29504054
They only need 4 affirmative votes in order to decide to hear a case.
We have two contradictory federal court rulings regarding the constitutionality of assault weapon bans. One out of Chimpago, and one out of Massachusetts.
Liberals currently have 4 seats that they need to take that case. The only reason that they have declined cases in recent years is because they were afraid of a 5-4 decision further protecting gun rights beyond what Heller and Macdonald did.
They're poised to get a 5th liberal on the court. Guaranteeing future desire to revoke and limit our second amendment rights via death by a thousand regulatory cuts. They have zero incentive to not hear these cases once they have a liberal majority.
The only reason they would not need to take such cases is if all lower court rulings were in their favor, then they could decline to hear a case and allow unconstitutional regulations to stand. As it currently stands, there is a federal contradiction regarding the legality of assault weapon bans. So the court will at some point need to make a determination there.
If Shillary is elected or the cuckservatives back down and allow Garland to be confirmed, we should all be afraid.
>>29504233
Garland is literally the best chance we have.
>>29504167
Federal judges that sit for life after being appointed by a President.
George Bush was "appointed by the people" even though he lost the popular election to Gore and only won because of about a 100 votes in Florida granting him victory via the outdated electoral college.
Congressional districts are commonly drawn in ways to maximize voting advantages for the dominant party, thus allowing said dominant party to win elections that they might not have otherwise.
Most eligible voting Americans don't even vote in elections, so 'popular mandate' isn't even true.
If you really think that all of our politicians are there by popular mandate and because they won election every time without having the deck stacked in their favor, you're sadly mistaken.
So does what you would need a stamp for vary by platform for full auto? For an AR would it just be registering the lower? What about a Glock? Would you need to register the frame or the selector?
>>29504256
Garland is not friendly to our cause. He is not our best chance. He is not a true "judicial moderate" in any sense. This is just the shit people like Obama have been spewing in hopes that people will believe it after it's been screamed loudly and often enough. Which I'm sorry to say does seem to work.
>>29503110
Honestly, I'd get a DIAS for my AR. After that, I don't know. Sky would be the limit, wouldn't it?
>>29504309
I think he's a true judicial moderate in most senses, and Cruz/Trump has no chance of beating Clinton, so it's still our best bet.
>>29504062
Because a stamp is required as long as the NFA is in place. We're just talking about the Hughes Amendment being removed.
I hate politics, I wish they didn't have so much influence on my life and hobbies
>>29503110
Sig 556.
>>29503110
I'd be hard pressed not to buy a PKM.
Also, G36.
Because I need to know once and for all.
>>29503110
full retard M60 and SCAR 17 because fuck
>>29504347
He has a very pro prosecution bent, probably due to his time as a prosecutor. He is used to defending the government and taking it's position closely to heart. Not exactly a solid moderate. He voted to allow an illegal federal registry of firearm purchase records to exist for 6 months. He voted to rehear Heller en banc when the prior ruling was favorable to gun rights. That last bit isn't as damning as a 'no' vote on the 3 judge panel would have been, but it would be fair to read into his desire to rehear the case as him being antagonistic to gun rights.
The Republicans need to do what it takes to hold the Senate in case Shillary wins. Which she probably will, because Obama's DOJ is not going to indict her regardless of the recommendations that FBI ends up making. That's a step call. But if they can hold it until midterm elections, they'll be largely safe. Republicans traditionally do much better in midterms than Democrats.
>>29504410
So you want the supreme court to have a vacancy for four years?
Question: As an act of defiance, why don't people create trusts and continually file for tax stamps for machine guns?
They can't process the money order if your stamp is rejected, so you get your money back eventually and if say a million or so people do it, they'll be flooded for months.
>>29504440
Wouldn't that just increase the wait time for stamps?
>>29504467
Yes, but it'd also increase the likelihood of them fucking up and allowing trust manufactured machine guns.
>>29504426
I'd take a 4-4 vote rather than a 5-4 vote against us.
The 4-4 vote allows the prior ruling to stand, but doesn't set case law. Besides, the vacancy probably wouldn't stand. If Shillary's extremist got shot down by a Republican Senate she'd be forced to pick someone more moderate.
This is exactly how we ended up getting Justice Kennedy on the Supreme Court under Reagan rather than getting Robert Bork, who was much more reliably conservative. The Democrats rejected Bork as too extreme and forced Reagan to nominate someone much more moderate.
>>29504440
ATF gets paid the same either way, but SBRs and suppressors gain 20 month wait times
>>29504489
I doubt it, they just check a list to see if you're a Senator before saying no
>>29504426
>four years of ineffectiveness vs 0 years of waiting to have rights stripped away
Fuck having the appearance of looking competent, rights are more important than appearances.
>>29503110
nsv 12.7x108mm
>>29503110
glock 34, stock, and FA sear
>>29504499
ATF has to devote significant manpower to just handing refunds.
If they fail to do that, then there is grounds for an exploratory law suit.
>>29504103
So have a few other states, including Alaska, with their reasoning being "If it's made here your interstate commerce clause can go fuck itself, Mr. Feds"
>>29504358
>hobbies
That's your problem. Guns aren't a hobby, they're a lifestyle. And that lifestyle is called liberty.
Unless you live in some third world country like England. Then it makes you a criminal.
>>29504510
This whole case exists because an ATF clerk fucked up - just imagine if they had an extra million machine gun stamps to rifle through.
>>29503110
A fucking green card.
Imagine 3-gun comps with machine guns.
>>29499792
>the NFA and laws thereafter states NO WHERE that a trust cant manufacture a post-86 machinegun with the proper forms filed and taxes paid.
There's so much wrong with this argument I don't know where to start
>>29504496
Except the Republicans are inexplicably refusing to even hold a vote on Garland, and nobody is calling him extreme at all. The only complaint is that he is more liberal than Scalia, which... No shit.
>>29499816
>>29499841
The ATF didn't "close the registry", Congress did.
>>29503110
>mfw I'll be able to convert my newly acquired SLR-107FR to full auto
>I'll finally be able to live out my dreams of being a commie Venezuelan conscript with an AK-103
>>29504603
Such as?
The Hughes amendment states that no person can register a machine gun after May 86.
Trusts are separate from the concept of a person under the NFA.
Machine guns are protected arms under the 2nd, which is why they can't be banned explicitly at the federal level, so it's defacto legal if it's not explicitly banned.
>>29504648
>Tfw unjust import bans are upheld and we will never have full giggle AK107 or VSS.
Fuck I want a full auto so bad
REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>29504603
>There's so much wrong with this argument I don't know where to start
>I want to say you're wrong but I have no argument.
ftfy
fuck I'm so confused. why are firearms laws so confusing
>>29504799
They aren't confusing, the open interpretations are confusing because they're arbitrary.
>>29504634
>inexplicably
I'm not certain that you know what that word means. It's pretty easy to understand what they're doing this and why. They have enough power to prevent the actual vote, but not enough that they can be confident in preventing Garland from being confirmed if the vote was actually held, accepting that some Republicans will vote against party lines. The Democrats would have done the same thing to Reagan if they hadn't had such a strong majority in the Senate when it came down to rejecting Bork. Stop shilling for the Democrats so hard and open your eyes. The Republicans and Democrats constantly attack each other for doing the same shit that they themselves have historically done.
Plenty of people consider Garland to be an extremist, he has just been successfully labeled by Obama (and the media that loves Obama) as a "moderate" when he isn't one in fact.
The Republicans don't have a duty to even hold a vote on this matter, technically. And the President's nomination doesn't automatically have the right to be confirmed. The nominee is only approved via "advise and consent." The Republicans are obviously stretching their position and attempting to stand behind their "advise" not being taken into account regarding the nomination. It isn't a strong position, it's going to hurt them in the long run, but it's holding so far on a technicality.
Both parties have a long history of taking advantage of technicalities and the rules of procedure, (such as how committees are used to drown bills so that they never reach the floor for actual votes) in order to get their way without risking a vote.
>>29503944
>muh ebul republicans
Garland would undoubtedly side with Ginsberg and the other radical progressive judges on the Hollis case.
The SCOTUS also won't take on any major cases until a new Justice is appointed.
>>29504796
Don't have time to spoonfeed you, sorry.
>>29505017
Not him, but you have the time to attack his contention, sit here and shit post, but do not have the time to explain your position? I find that hard to believe.
>>29504715
>The Hughes amendment states that no person can register a machine gun after May 86.
No, it says no person can possess or transfer
>Trusts are separate from the concept of a person under the NFA
No, they really aren't.
>>29501445
>Gay marriage
>Constitutional Carry in some states
>Alcohol
>MA tazer ban
>>29505135
adding to this
>The fallout of the Siege of Boston
>The fallout of Ruby Ridge
>The fallout of DNA matching and overturning of blood type as admissible evidence
Face it. The 20th century was the nadir of freedom in the US, 21st has been questionable but better than the 20th.
>>29505135
>fag marriage
It was never a thing at any point before the last 20 or so years though, you can't reinstate something that didn't exist.
>>29504355
>Hughes Amendment
Can you give a summary. I just looked it up but all that legal stuff is very confusing.
>>29504550
Anyone actually tried it? I'd be game but I'm in Louisiana, does it have a similar law?
>>29505231
>The fallout of the Siege of Boston
Explain?
>>29504733
>nd, which is why they can't be banned explicitly at the federal level, so it's defacto legal if it's not explicitly banned.
>>>
> Anonymous 04/05/16(Tue)18:43:22 No.29504733â–¶
>>>29504648
>>Tfw unjust import bans are upheld and we will never have full giggle AK107 or VSS.
YOU SHUT YOUR DIRTY WHORE MOUTH!!!
>>29501445
Chicago. When I left Chicago around 2010, handguns were pretty much illegal. Then the handgun ban in DC was found unconstitutional, so Chicago had to change the laws. They made it so that you had to jump through a million hoops to get a handgun and take a mandatory course, then I think those laws changed due to being unconstitutional or something, and now Chicago is pretty much the complete opposite of when I left. Also, Illinois started issuing CCW permits and Chicago was forced to honor them. Also, the mag limit was increased from 10 to 15. I'm sure there's more.
>>29503183
Think about all the money the government would get on tax stamps alone. Hell for the price of a SCAR or high quality AR, a lot of people could theoretically convert their entire aresenals just on tax stamps alone, not counting the cost of all the auto sears.
>>29505643
The Hughes Amendment effectively closed the registry for full auto weapons post May(iirc) 86. Any private citizen caught in possession of an unregistered full auto after the passage of the law gets sent to a federal pound you in the ass prison.
>>29506018
wasn't it piggybacked off a bill trying to prevent ATFuckers from being corrupt bastards?
>look how effective that was
>>29503110
One of those prototype sterling rifles in .300 blk
>>29506070
Iirc yes.
>>29504550
I think the feds could pull Wickard v. Filburn on that, but it's neva bin dun befo
>>29505231
>21st has been questionable but better than the 20th
>surveillance state
I dunno mang.
>>29500052
Brb
>>29505765
>>29499837
Only if he blows up your family, senpai. Picture of a fireman carrying your broken kid out of the rubble would be a nice prize for a shitpost like that.
>>29504977
probably right, mi familia. I wonder what justice president Clinton will appoint instead, with the newly democratic senate advising and consenting...
>>29504309
Ya, all those liberals saying nice things about him. Like Orren Hatch.
>>29504410
This.
Garland is an enemy and not a friend of our second amendment. If he was then Obungo wouldnt try to be appointing him because Obungos biggest issue with us useless eaters is our gun addictions :)
Can someone give the background of this case?
>>29505134
Go read the hughes amendment, go read about what a trust is, and come back here and tell us what you learned.
>>29500171
That means America is a glorious based hero who does what they know is right with extreme prejudice.
>>29504856
Bork got a hearing. Bork got a vote. Reagan got a justice that was not-Bork confirmed in his place at about the same point in his presidency that Obama is in his. There's really not much prior history for the republicans to stand on here. They're middle fingering the constitution.
>>29507037
>Fuck the part of the constitution about nominating SCOTUS Justices
or
>Fuck the part of the Constitution about owning weapons
Tough choice.
why does noone pull this to nullify gun laws?
What the fuck is this dangerous and unusual shit
>>29507106
the last time the Constitution was used to nullify laws, we had a small most deadly war in American history over it
>>29507106
Because the federal government enforces illegal laws which are null consitutionally but they dont give a fuck and will arrest you anyways.
Its called a tyrannical government, and they dont give a fuck about your "rights"
>>29507139
Illegal laws are not laws my friend
Liberty or Death
America is not america without the rights we have protected and fought for
>>29507139
What are the anti gunners going to do if we nullify their restrictive laws, complain and protest?
>>29507168
Federal prison
>>29507176
We have to have enough people disobey this illegal shit to make them cave to our demands.
They cannot jail all of us so long as all of us stand and fight
>>29507183
OK
you go first
Can't we just develop 3d printing enough where we can take the marijuana approach, where it becomes so easy and plentiful to acquire that there is no choice but to legalize them?
>>29503110
I like your style. I'd go for this one. It gets me hard every time.
>>29506959
Lol. You think what McVeigh did was bad? It doesn't hold a candle to what the government does in the "war on terror."
>>29504641
The Hughes Amendment failed to pass. But some faglord snuck it back into FOPA before they voted on the full bill, and no one noticed till it was too late.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Mx2UcSEvQ
>>29507835
But it's the government that does that, so that makes it OK.
How many of you are willing to take up arms if you knew other men would do so alongside you.
>>29507869
nigger reangle allowed it to slide by.
>>29507136
The base reason for regulating machineguns and explosives.
>>29507835oh the joo irony... mentioning McVeigh "deeds" in a thread about a case against "Holder" (who was directly responsible for and involved in the deed you accuse McVeigh of...
mejammingredpillsdownidiotsthroat.jpg
>>29501445
Booze
>>29503110
All of them
but seriously, I'd find someone to full retard my preban K2.
>>29503110
I'll buy a new manufacture M2 Carbine fire control group from Fulton Armory.
Then I'll put a third pin in my AK and buy a 3 pin AR lower from Bravo Company.
>>29503110
M16A2
Or I'd get a Dp28 or PPS.
>>29504233
So hypothetically what would happen if one of those libs suddenly died?
>>29498532
TAKBIR!
TAKBIR!
ALLAHU ACKBAR!
>>29505231
Last I checked there was no fallout for the Siege of Boston. Not even after Boston SWAT claimed to be a private corporation to avoid releasing records.
>>29505743
Boston bombing.
>>29504426
>implying they'll let it stay open for 4 years
With this sort of wishful thinking, you should be a Republican strategist
>>29507902
We have a great shot at getting new machine guns.
>>29499931
lol ask people if they support fighting terrorism with drone and get back to us
>>29503110
A conversion kit for bolt action rifles to make them full auto. Like those experimental ww1 and interwar guns with gas traps and whatnot.
Even if it would be an atrocious idea.
>>29507185
Already have you next.
>>29503110
AK-74
>>29505643
The Hughes amendment is actually very short and simple. I says, verbatim,
>Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.
Paragraph 2 says,
>This subsection does not apply with respect to,
>A. a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
>B. any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.
The Hollis case mainly revolves around the fact that 922(o) (the Hughes amendment) does not prohibit a trust from transferring or possessing a machinegun, only a person.
>>29507025
You first
>>29507232
When will 3D printing in metal be cheap?
>>29503110
This beauty.
>>29509434
Possibly never, without some sort of pretty significant breakthrough.
Laser sintering is the only viable method out there right now, and the hardware is extremely expensive and complex.
99% of the time you're better off machining whatever it is you're trying to make.
>>29506070
Yes, and not just that, there is a record of it being voted off the bill it piggy backed by a considerable amount.
It's an illegal amendment.
>>29503110
Some AK variant.
That's the only reason I don't own an AK now- If I ever get one, I want it to be a full-auto one.
>>29509507
>This
Especially considering any retard can make a Luty with hand tools.
>>29503205
Doesn't that thing still need a 3 position safety, FA hammer, AND the right kind of burst cam (if you wanted one)?
In unrelated news, I found a spring in a yard sale. Can't find what it goes to though.
>>29509507
I wonder what gun Moonman will get.
>>29498532
>>29510354
Looks like a safety/selector.
>>29503110
One of the PM63's that Radom is sitting on.
>>29510634
No that's an auto sear.
Id be filing paperwork for a RR, LL, and rdias right away. CT law complicates matters and it is unclear to me if my pre94 ban would need to be full auto only or if select fire is OK. I think regardless, I will need to include plans for the RR and rdias to be full auto only to get an approval.
Re the arguments, I'm not wowed by them. The judge trying to understand the nature of the challenge and how/why it is a ban is frustrating. I'm also unsure why he didn't mention Miller in addition to Heller for protecting mgs since mgs are suitable for militia use. Also interesting how the gov is trying to use 41p to fuck us in this case, question answered as to when and how that would happen. He also didn't really raise the point that maybe it's unusual because of a defacto ban in effect over the past 30 years compare that with the huge increases in form1 and form 4 for NFA over the last few years, it's reasonable to speculate mg mfg and possession would have increased with it if it was legal.
>>29505499
but it, along with all the general civil rights movements (sufferage on up), is a right towards providing freedoms that were not there. While different, it is effectively the same -> rights were formally constricted by the state and then provided to individuals following an over-rule of previous doctrine.
>>29503110
I'd tie a Shoestring to my Garand
>>29507168
Keep brainwashing everyone going through public school with their liberal bullshit, doubledown on it in college, and make sure all generations afterwards are just a little more liberal and progressive than the last. Keeps them in office. Then they use that office and the increased population of their supporters to have the police and/or military do their bidding once they effectively maintain a single party majority. Kind of like how California operates.
>>29508127
Same problem really. The status quo of the court would temporary rebalance to where you had 3 cons, 3 liberals, and 1 moderate. But then you have a liberal in the oval office that is likely to be replaced by another liberal. So in the end, you'll just get new 2 liberals once that happens.
Yet another failure by the NRA.
Tell me again why they shouldn't be purged and replaced with young gun rights radicals. We need to get Cody Wilson and the SilencerCo boys on the board.
>>29511320
2nd on this one, minus the Cody Wilson bit. He's just a nut.
>>29511330
Maybe but the point heakes is a good one. All regulation of anything is futile and people need to see it for what it really is, control.
>>29509434
At least 10 yrs
>I'm hoping for 15
>>29511343
He's turning gun control into a 1st amendment issue, which is a good strategy we haven't tried before. Lots of potential to write some positive case law here. He's got an active lawsuit right now which is the reason we haven't heard much from him lately.
>>29508481
>implying they'd sell you one.
>>29509472
>E2
>flat delta ring
>A2 lower
git gud
Assuming the judge hears, debates, and approves of Hollis' arguments, and then grants the fuck out of his pleas, this does what? Allow a national level destruction of the de facto ban on a trust creating new MGs? Or does this one ruling allow it to happen for him only, and the ATF decides on a new way to ban?
Or, more likely, so we expect that this will get bumped up the chain no matter the outcome?
>>29512377
>Allow a national level destruction of the de facto ban on a trust creating new MGs?
This.
>>29501266
>Ruger
>Beretta
>Smith & Wesson
>Midway
>Browning
>Remington
>Cabelas
>Grassroots
>>29509165
>922(o) (the Hughes amendment) does not prohibit a trust from transferring or possessing a machinegun, only a person.
There is not a single judge in this country who is going to go along with that line of reasoning. They are going to say that the intent of 922 (o) is clearly to keep people from having machine guns. If trusts could register new machine guns, then the law becomes pointless, since all anyone has to do register one through a trust.
>>29504103
Actually that law is super interesting. Its basically written to challenge the NFA for in state NFA items.
Basically it says that suppressors/SBRs/SBSs/machine guns/destructive devices/etc made in Montana, marked as made in/only to be used in Montana, illegal to sell to out of state residents, illegal to possess by out of state residents, and made for personal are legal to possess and use by any Montana resident.
As the items are only to be used within the state, they fall outside of the power of the ATF to regulate as they don't cross any state lines and don't fall under the interstate commerce clause.
Its actually a really sound law. Its pretty much a law that was built to go to the supreme court. Imagine being able to build your own suppressors, machine guns, and SBRs as long as you mark them "FOR USE ONLY WITHIN [your state]" with no paperwork.
>>29512599
So has anyone in montana done this yet
>>29512502
do I need to list the people against gun ownership?
Btw the NRA started as a grassroots campaign to allow freed slaves to protect themselves and practice shooting
>>29512645
Probably, but they most likely haven't broadcast it for obvious reasons.
>>29511330
He is the good kind of nuts
>>29510388
Wow that is small but badass.
>>29512645
>So has anyone in montana done this yet
Lets take this hypothetically
You make a suppressed, sbr, machine gun.
You mark it in accordance with state laws saying that its only for in state use.
You tell people that you have this and show it off.
ATF comes to your door, shoots your dog, and arrests you.
You are now going to rot in prison for the 10+ years its going to take for your case to get to the supreme court. Thats even if they decide they want to hear it. If you win, you get to have your instate dream gun. Of course you're also going to be out an astronomical amount of money, have no job, no life, no nothing when you get out.
Or if you lose you're going to prison. Probably for the maximum sentence to the feds can make an example of you for challenging their authority.
So in short, no. No one has had the huge steel balls and/or wallet to bet their freedom on the federal government allowing them to make a machine gun just for themselves.
>>29511110
I was thinking this too, but it'll be a right pain in the scrote to find/machine a barrel that doesn't look like swiss cheese
>>29499900
"War on Guns" sounds like the title of a fantastic b-movie. Hold on a minute guys, I need to file a trademark.
>>29512733
I wish I was rich enough to do it, then abscond to the other side of the planet and call the ATF on myself.
i wish i could sit in on this in court
>>29499900
We need to take over a bird sanctuary in Oregon. C'mon guys, it'll be great.
>>29512792
I would do it
ATF agents would be violating a state law and be sent to a state prison
>>29512807
>a couple dozen hicks
>mass uprising
Making this case constitutional rather than procedural should tell you everything you need to know about where your hopes should be
>>29504288
This. Gerrymandering has absolutely destroyed any semblance of democratic process. Which is why congress has an approval rating of 11 percent. Literally 9 out of 10 Americans do not approve of congress, and yet the same people get elected cycle after cycle because theyve rigged the election process so that only those 9 percent who approve actually matter.
>>29512903
I live in MD and its gerrymandered to shit
worst in the country
And its why democrats keep getting elected despite a majority here hating their guts
>>29512903
That's Congress as a whole. Most people approve of their representatives, hence the ridiculous re-election rate.
People keep blaming partisanship in Congress and the election process because they don't want to square with the truth- we, as Americans, have fundamentally different ideas of how a modern country should look and be run, and as a result fucking hate each other and .
>>29512903
>Literally 9 out of 10 Americans do not approve of congress, and yet the same people get elected cycle after cycle because theyve rigged the election process so that only those 9 percent who approve actually matter.
I wonder how many of those disapproving Americans go out and vote...
>>29512928
0/9
>>29512832
>if we do this, the whole country will rise up around us in support
>everyone shares our views guys
They literally no only honestly believed this, but they were COUNTING on it. This is why you will never get 100,000 people to march on Washington with guns, because to the average American, that's fucking crazy. There is a reason that we're posting on an anonymous image board and not, say, in the public eye of social media. No one shares our views and beliefs. No one is going to support us. Not trying to shit on your ideas, because to me they are morally and legally sound, but if you're going to fight for your rights, then you have to plan according to what you've got to work with. There will not be a 100,000 strong armed march on the Capitol, because there aren't 100,000 people devoted enough to 2A rights to risk their livelihoods to do so. Yes, absolutely fight tooth and nail for your rights, but don't plan on a hundred thousand people suddenly rising up to march with you, and don't say that that's what we "need" because it won't happen. What we need are a handful of lawyers who are smart and shrewd enough to fight for our cause all the way up to the Supreme Court. We need to forward a better image to bring more voters over to our side. We need to look at this from both a legal and a PR perspective, because that's how change happens in America. Your thoughts are sound, but even IF 100,000 people marched on Washington with guns (which, again, will not happen), it won't be seen as "the American people rising up for their rights," it'll be seen as Oregon 2: the hillbillies strike back.
And hey, this is just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. But from what I've seen, we really need to get people thinking of shooting as a family friendly activity again so as to get more moderate votes for our side. But that's just my one shitty opinion, and I'm just some asshole on the Internet, so feel free to disagree or just ignore me completely.
>>29512928
>Implying I don't always vote for 100lbs of hornets to represent my state's congressional seat
>>29512564
I didn't say it was a good plan, just an interesting one.
I think some guy on arfcom had the best strategy.
>Miller says 2A protects military arms.
>Heller says 2A protects bearable arms.
>Recent case says 200k stun guns are not >unusual.
So all you need to do is get a judge to agree that machineguns are bearable, military arms that are not unusual, especially within the government, and volia! machineguns are protected by the 2nd amendment as backed up by several previous supreme court cases.
>>29513055
Hello shill.
i live in a hyperlib state and 70% of the people I know would agree with my views on gun ownership and the state of this country
>>29512564
There is at least one judge that thought 922(o) was unconstitutional as applied. Unfortunately the supreme court told him to change his mind and he did.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Stewart_(2003)
>>29513149
I want to believe.
Honestly I don't understand how full autos and silencers etc got banned in the first place. The 2nd is pretty clear.
>>29513118
I would hope that 100lbs of hornets would have a long career in politics, making it to the whitehouse some day
Violence won't solve shit here dudes.What you need to do, is play dirty and be honest.
Why did we ban CCW and OC in so many states, because of racism. Do you know why you needed a CLEO sign off in so many places? It was so they could do a brown bag test, and if you were a nigger?
This shit is a civil rights issue, gun control is about racism. can't let those niggers have guns! You wanna get shit done, get them SJW faggots co-opted into the cause, teach them that gun rights = True equality when all men, women and whatevers have equal access to arms.
End the monopoly on violence the government has, not with violence but with honeyed words. Violence is easy, it's caustic to the cause though.
>>29513409
>MAKE AMERICA BZZ AGAIN
>>29513445
I promise a wall to keep those Africanized fuck out!
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE AMERICA BUZZ AGAIN!
Daily reminder that supressors were added to the NFA because a state park ranger complained to his congressman friend that poor people were silently poaching in his park
Now what, like 46 states allow supressors for hunting?
It's literally the easiest thing to overturn if people actually thought clearly for one fucking minute.
Its all hollywood's fault anyways.
>>29513149
>>29513309
I agree that 922(o) is unconstitutional; I was just making the point that "loopholes" in the law don't work the way a lot of people think.
A bit off topic, but if the ATF ever does have an amnesty day, what should I have on hand? Would I need 80% lowers or could I just use regular stripped lowers and convert them? Also, what about parts kits?
>>29513467
>I promise a wall to keep those Africanized fuck out!
Even liberals would have a hard time disagreeing.
>>29513584
With the current rules, I don't see why you'd need any physical part at all, since there is no in-person inspection. Just submit the paperwork and make the gun later.
>>29503677
The Constitution was a coup. Should've stuck with the Articles.
>>29504233
>two contradictory federal court rulings
What cases are you referring to?
>>29504410
We need Judge Napolitano on the supreme court
>>29507037
Congress is doing no such thing, they are not a rubber stamp for whoever the President wants to appoint, if Republicans don't want to give gim a hearing then they don't have to.
>>29504547
Could someone use this strategy now? Flood the ATF with so many applications that they can't keep up or make a mistake, then use that as a basis to sue them?
>>29505959
Government doesn't care about money, only power.
>>29513165
So why aren't they marching? They might support gun ownership, but you don't see them parading together down the street with their rifles, do you?
>>29513815
>DDoSing the ATF
that sounds glorious
>>29513584
Nothing, that way when the ATF changes their mind and kills your neighbors down the street in a botched raid you can say "See, I didn't even have anything illegal!" before they burn your house down with you trapped inside
In all seriousness, I imagine the NFA + Hughes Amendment would be dismantled before they ever have another amnesty day, considering they have been refusing congressional order to do so for the past ~20 years or so, on top of cutting their 1 amnesty day ages ago short and telling everyone to eat a dick
>>29513932
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just need a small team of competent lawyers, a reasonable amount of funding, and a good plan.
Make the ATF fuck up and then sue them for denying us our rights.
