Hey d/ick/sters! How about we make the sticky great again? The beginner guide is pretty fucking ugly and poorly written and many people don't like some of he content. I thought a wiki page would be a better option, with people being able to add content and more streamlined and familiar look. So I set one up and anyone who wants can make it great by adding stuff, if it turns into something actually nice we can try to bully mods into changing the official sticky post to include this.
Anyways, from now on if you ever have a complaint on sticky, instead of shitposting, add something to the wiki! You can make this board great again today!
LINK:
http://ic-sticky.wikia.com
http://ic-sticky.wikia.com
http://ic-sticky.wikia.com
http://ic-sticky.wikia.com
If it ain't broke...
>>2389472
I'd rather shitpost than contribute or git good, but yeah I think the sticky could use some love.
http://drawabox.com/lesson/1 should be added
>>2389553
>drawabox
:^)
>>2389553
What's so bad about beginners using pencils? It's better for them to be able to correct their mistakes as they go instead of redoing the exercise.
>>2389510
if it aint broke dont try to improve it? I guess were done with technology guys.
>>2389510
It's broken as all hell
>>2389472
if people could go ahead and continue the rough outline/composition thatd be great.
I have finals to study for but in 2 days I should have some time inbetween tests, so I'll make sure to do some work on it. I'm not feeling good enough to write the text itself but I can work on the layout, correct some grammers and add links for resources.
Thanks to anyone and everyone who contributes!
>>2389472
Some fucker posted a one-year-long basement dweller extreme rectal-ravage -grinding course of free stuff on the internets.
It contained a guide on the books to read, a specific order and the lenght of the exercises:
>i.e: Draw loomis heads for 9 weeks, move on to ctrlpaint exercises for 4 weeks.
If you have the link, it should be added there.
>>2389472
bump
Whatever happened to loomisloves.us?
>>2390059
context?
I reordered the sticky, added some categories. Still need a good table of contents which I will do tommorow if nobody else does. We still need descriptions for painting programs and tools, I don't have that much knowledge of these so I'm leaving it for someone.
Added some books as well off the top of my head so review it if necessary.
I think the best course of action for the actual guide text is if some good artist writes it and then someone who can write edits it.
>>2390452
I defined the tablets a little as well as PS and PTS
I have some ideas on categories;
- Why do you want to make pictures?
This would be an introduction to different application of drawing both proffessionally and recreationally.
- Drawing Basics
-Observation
- Proportion
- Value
- Lines
- Rendering
- Imagination
- Perspective and volume
- Theory of light emission
- Visual library
- Design, Composition and Intent
Specialzied categories:
-Mechs
-Human figur
-Landscapes
-Abstract, patterns etc
etc.
What do you think? I want to add more but i dont have time for that right now.
>>2390624
feel free to make any changes you want, theres a backlog anyway if someone really fucks up so if we have multiple versions at the end we can get I/C to vote for one.
I like what it is slowly forming into.
>>2389472
>Traditional tools:
>[muh pencils]
perfect, leave it at that
>wikia
Pls no, any other host is better. Wikia works with the scummiest, poorly optimized ad networks in existence.
For the love of god, use google sites like /sci/.
>>2390647
we can always just do a transfer post-writing
>>2390647
It's just temporary while it's being worked on.
It can be replaced afterwards.
Here's your sticky:
Just draw boxes everywhere lol
>>2390820
desu
>>2389881
seconded
Seems I missed this. Got a link?
Hey I didn't even think this would get so much traction when I posted. It feels like we are going to make a difference...feels nice. I might even not cry myself to sleep this night. Thank you guys for all the contributions.
>>2390647
Hey, thanks for the info, I didn't know anything about the differences between wiki hosting sites when I made it, I just picked the one I knew about. As other anons said, anything can be changed.
>>2389881
Got any link?
>>2389472
It should include the importance of de-constructing still lifes and learning how to think in 3D
It's ridiculous that /ic/ glosses over this in favor of loomis books.
>>2390979
I've seen way too many people on here that don't have a proper grasp on this and then they get told to construct and it looks like shit because really they don't know what they're doing.
This is literally the cure to so much bad, flat art on this board.
>>2390979
If you want something to be in there, you can just add it yourself! That's why I chose the wiki format! It doesn't have to be amazingly written either, I and hopefully better writers than me will be going through it from time to time to fix poorly written text while trying to retain the content.
>>2390979
But loomis does teach you how to think in 3d though. At least that's what I get from him.
>>2391139
nobodys going to read the damn book though.
>>2391141
Depending on what book you're talking about, the ones I'm reading (fun with a pencil and successful figure drawing), show through drawing the construction, dealing with breaking forms down into simpler forms and all that. It's pretty clear even if you skim through it. I'm just a beginner, but I'm pretty sure construction with 3d forms is the main concern of both those books. Are we reading the same books here?
>>2390915
Thanks for bringing it up anon.
We can't keep directing newfags to the sticky if the sticky is trash.
>>2391198
within being trash, the sticky is the best thing to be linked to we have at the moment.
>>2391153
All of his goddamn heads look like stylized characters for ads in the 40s (which is essentially what they are). That doesn't help for people who want to draw REALISTIC people
>>2391287
Find an author that does better heads, then. Loomis' heads are way fucking better and varied (even excluding Blooks) than those by Hampton, Hamm, and Bridgman. You don't have a lot of options.
>>2391293
>better than bridgman
Bridgman puts extra lines in his illustrations so you can really get to know/manipulate the forms.
Loomis is good, and his finished drawings have variety, but there's a gap between those and his instructional illustrations, which are so basic as to only be useful for a true novice to the human head/figure.
>>2389472
Boosting this.
>draft a simple table for drawing program comparisons twice
>get error twice because another anon was editing
i j-just wanted to help
>>2391337
I am so sorry anon, I am doing tons of editing.
Is there a way to get it back?
>>2391338
i didn't save those changes because the conflicts fisted the coding for the entire page
it's okay though, i'll come back and autism it later
i noticed we can create multiple pages. maybe that'd be a better way of cutting up the information? it's kinda intimidating for a newbie to scroll down a never-ending page
Ok so I might be done for now, I added the table of contents, edited some paragraphs that looked wrong (the whole battling lolies thing, I don't know if that was some faggot trying to be funny or if it was just worded weirdly), highlighted keywords (that I might try to explain briefly in case is needed) and add an afterword (what to do once you finsh reading the sticky)
The only problem I found is I don't know how much can be personal opinion and how much should I have read somewhere else, I will try to highlight all the newest edits I do just so you guys can decide what to keep and what not (see: that protip about sketchbooks)
>>2391342
oh thats what the table of contents is, I say a disclaimer should be enough.
from now on I might think on creating an account and do less saves, again, sorry about that.
>>2389580
> It's better for them to be able to correct their mistakes as they go instead of redoing the exercise.
Debatable. If fucking up means a do-over
A) You'll do it over more, which is conductive to retaining it.
B) You'll think a little before you put a stroke down, because once it's there it sure as shit isn't going anywhere.
The ability to erase and do-over encourages "guess until it looks right" rather than a more 'measure twice cut once' approach.
>>2391358
Totally agree, would be nice to add that paragraph/ something similar from scott robertson's book (regarding to erasing and working with pens).
can the person who wrote "There are incredibly vital sentences hidden in the paragraphs." next to the" not concise/hard to skim for specific info/"
Elaborate a little bit?
>>2391139
He does show you how, but that doesn't mean you're the master of thinking in 3D just from reading his book.
FUCK FIREFOX UPDATE PROGRAMMERS WITH A RUSTY PINEAPPLE. Restart my browser without any prompt after I type a whole goddamn response. Anyway,
>>2389472
>>2389867
>>2390452
>>2390624
>>2390915
>>2390990
>>2391355
>good artist writes it and then someone who can write edits it
Hopefully y'all can settle for 'halfway-competent with highs chool level writing skills'. If so, I'm up to this. I recently did a write up on how to get into drawing for a friend who had no experience and kinda wanted to expand it to 'give back' to /ic/. I try to give good critique in the draw threads once or twice a week, but something more permanent is appealing, so this is my lucky day.
I've been here a loooong time and /ic/ helped me go from bottom-tier-of-deviant-art-animu to correctly copying photos to observational drawing with some degree of competence/confidence (pic related, it's a couple years old now). I remember most of the journey, in order. I owe a lot of my success to this place.
I have experience with pencil, tablet/photoshop, acrylic, charcoal, colored pencil, watercolor, oil (a little), dip pen+ink, ballpoint, and a handful of niche stuff like decocolors. I've drawn still life, sight-size, live model, construction (organic and inorganic), and lots of stuff in between. Read Loomis, Hampton, Speed, Bridgman <3, a little Hogarth, and a few others. Watched Robertson, some Villipu, a couple I forget.
>>2391561
Like I said I have a couple pages written already. It's mostly on the importance of fundamentals like value, gradation control, getting control over shape then form, perspective, etc. It's less how-to and more a roadmap for who to read for what. There's a lot missing though and it'll take a week or two to get it quite where I want it. I'm shooting for monday, but we'll see. If this sounds good, someone let me know and I'll commit the time to finishing it.
Pics are my work. Like I said, I wouldn't say I'm 'Good', but I'm competent enough to connect the dots to get a beginner from "I barely know how to hold a pencil" to "neat I should be doing master studies, who should I start with?"
>>2391575
>http://ic-sticky.wikia.com
Oh and yeah, let's switch to Google sites or something. I'm not sure if it's free, but I'll check that out.
>>2391394
No, but you won't be the master of it with just any book either.
>>2391287
First of all I think you're plain wrong, and I think you just skimmed (if that) through fun with a pencil and that's it. Second of all, why should this matter?
The point, for you both, is that Loomis's books focus on teaching you to think in 3d, and to build 2d shapes from 3d volumes. That's why Loomis is a meme, because he teaches what are the fundamentals, and the rest is just studying subjects so you get used to their form.
>>2391775
As a beginner should I follow this or the sticky?
>>2391863
they arent contradictory.
>>2391863
Aguri is for people wanting to really buckle down and git gud hard
If you use it as a beginner it's going to really crush you and there's a high chance you'll stop liking art
>>2391868
Ty anon.
>>2391592
>>2391575
>>2391561
Ok, I'll make a site and transfer what's on wikia already no problem the only trouble is that generic domain names on the botnet are all fucking taken, I'll try to think of a cool name.
>>2391561
>>2391575
>>2391592
Oh, and thanks for all that writing! It's awesome!
Now for pictures. I think a good idea would be to have a common format for pictures so that they look like they all belong to our site and aren't just some random pics snagged from the net. I can think of 2 formats, one where you would have 2 pics next to eachother one with a specific mistake and other one with how it should look properly. Or other one could be simple redlines over beginner drawings highlighting the common mistakes and how to fix them in a single image. Anyways, I'll try to put together some mockup (I do too many mistakes myself to do the actual correction images so this will be up to generous art gods of /ic/ that decite to boot), and then we can strawpoll.
If you decide to do it, beginner thread should have a ton of pictures with any mistakes, I guess we should ask them if we can use it tho just to be n/ic/e. Also pick some that are nicely scanned or good quality photos so that it looks nice.
>>2391972
>ask them
>be n/ic/e
Wheredoyouthinkyouare.jpg
But in all seriousness a few example citiques from beginner thread posts is a good idea. Right now the sections i've got in mind are:
1.quick foundations+roadmap
2.detail on foundations (subsections on line, shape, form, color, etc)
3. Materials
4. Motivation (why to study this stuff)
5. /ic/ etiquette (or, shitposting and you)
6. Example critiques
7. Good resources (books/videos)
8. Other stuff people suggest in the wikia that i forgot
I spent some time looking at google sites, should be good. The /sci/ guide is a good model on how to use drive to get around the 100mb limit (i think). I'll work on the first two sections, post them and see what you guys think.
>>2392394
>4. Motivation (why to study this stuff)
I mean fundamentals and drawing from life. I'm gonna read through the current sticky to make sureI don't leave anything out.
>>2391775
could someone explain me this meme please
>>2391972
Ok ,so I checked it out and unless I'm missing something, it seems like google sites would not allow anyone to edit the page unless they get a permission from me as the creator of the page. I don't want that kind of site we already have a sticky that people can't edit, I made a wiki for the specific purpose of creating a guide that will be written and controlled by all the people of /ic/ that want to do it. So right now I say it stays on wikia and I'm going to look through some free wiki hosting websites, or please suggest some wiki hosting that would be better.
>[no more than 7 books, that's bordering ridiculous]
I don't think it'd be bad to add more than 7 given they're worth reading. I agree too much could be bad but as long as we write some good tl;dr for each of them it'd be fair. I'm sure some folks from the book threads would be happy to contribute.
>>2392394
Here.
>>2392548
I say we use wikia to collect ideas on what needs to be included/ how it should be organized for a while. People contribute to that. At first it'll be chaotic as people add/edit stuff with no particular order.
After a few of these threads the contribution should level out and we can organize in an understandable fashion. Then we take that and stick it on google sites.
The problem with Wikia is someone could go in and really fuck it up, on top of these problems:
>>2390647
My comp(s) grinds to a halt with Wikia. No other websites give it a problem, and it can run crysis on high so obviously the problem is with wikia's bullshit ads.
once google sites is all setup, in the sticky under the link we put "to submit a proposed addition to the wiki, email [email protected]" one of us monitors the email, or we just hand it to the mods.
there's still some holes in the plan, buti think that might fly. what do you think?
>>2392616
I already registered [email protected]. I might even be willing to pay the $50/yr Google apps license if this gets off the ground (and the added space/functionality is worth it). I'm sure there's a way to aetup a page so users can submit infographics/pics with Google Apps.
>>2392625
But again, for now while we collect ideas, Wikia is good as long as someone backs up any new/good additions (in case a chucklefuck decides to ruin it)
>>2392625
make a yearly patreon fund instead with a goal of 4.25 per month
>>2389867
HAS IT BEEN 2 DAYS YET FAGGOT?
>>2392713
Should we incorporate some of this into our stickY?
>>2392597
I think there should be a first list of the top 7 or so most important to read and then below you can have a list of all the other super important books to read in your lifetime about art but the most important ones go in that list of 7
>>2393484
Writerguy here. Saved it, will read later. it'll go in one way or another.
http://www.shoutwiki.com
How about here?
Considering how well this is going, it seems retarded to now go back to a closed web when we can have an open wiki that can be constantly updated and expanded with extra pages. Many people are obviously willing to contribute, so why go back to a static web that people will eventually start complaining about again?
>>2392616
Wikis have a history of edits exactly for this purpose, if someone decides to fuck it up you can just roll it back. However, if the dude who makes the web on google decides to fuck it up then you really can't do shit except make a new one again. If we can create it as a community, then we can keep it up the same way.
>>2389472
"When it comes to art, it is always a crawl, walk, and then a run`` can whoever wrote this explain what it means? I have no idea ( or rather too many ideas).
this is the image we want in the free work section. If possible we would use pop up images that are only there when you hover over an icon to make the layout good.
>some shit that needs to be added
make the pic in the sticky thread say
RESIZE FUCKING PICS TO 1000 X1000 OR SMALLER
add instructions on resizing to sticky
and this line 5x in the header to ALL general threads
>>2395267
fucking lol, it seems as though the sticky isnt really i/c centric though. im not sure we should put it in that direction... gonna add the strawpoll.
>>2395131
I'd draw for sex tho...
>>2395348
if youd pay for sex and shed sex for draw, you're getting paid in sex. Plus, you probably get to keep it and she only gets a picture.
>>2389472
bump because ive invested too much to let this die.
>>2396105
I'm here as well, sorry I wanted to be more active but there were health related complications which make it harder for me to do stuff. Last 2 days I just couldn't do anything at all. I'll try in the morning.
>>2395348
>doing anything other than bettering yourself for sex
That's why you're not getting sex
>>2396603
im curious as to what you have. May i ask?
>>2397298
It's nothing too serious. Dentist botched fixing my tooth and it got inflamed. He tried to fix it again and now the gums next to the tooth are inflamed as well. The pain radiates into my head so it's like a constant headache and toothache and I can't concentrate on anything.
>>2397491
get well
>>2396105
Writerguy here. I'm invested too. I likely won't finish my contribution until this thread is forgotten/dies. Don't worry, the project is underway, the sticky will be reborn. (Actually the w/ic/ki is a pretty good collection, mostly looks like we just need a redone 'getting started' section with a primer on different elements of fundamentals+'how to post on /ic/')
>>2394878
I'm adding an /ic/ etiquette section. Good idea to make it first.
>>2395267
I had no idea they had history of edits. Cool. Let's play it by ear for now.
>>2397773
And by 'play it by ear' i mean: i'm gonna write stuff and post it here ocassionally to see if yall agree with the direction i'm going/think it needs something else. I'll be monitoring /ic/ to see what you're saying about the wikia (I can't view that site). If there's no thread i'll start one with a pic of trump.
i'm dealing with midterms this week so i'll be awol for a bit. I'll be back for sure though.
>>2389472
requesting to add this one
http://www.autodestruct.com
the design lecture section is very useful
>>2398062
STOP WITH THE FUCKING REQUESTS AND MAKE A STRAWPOLL ( *GOES TO MAKE STRAWPOLL*)
>>2397773
we cant make an i/c etiquette section without the strawpoll winning first, we're at 50-50 right now. 65% being the cut off rate.
>>2398104
>>2398079
>wants to build the whole thing democratically
>approval poll for approval rate
At what rate will the approval poll be approved? Should we poll for that as well?
>>2398140
the approval rate is the first measure right above the median. It is the only fair and logical way to go about it.
>>2398140
Also keep in mind that people arent affected in the same way even when it comes to a majority vote. Gay marriage being an example. In the case of gay marriage, only the gays are affected, and yet, the majority still gets to decide for them. Kinda like how your neighborhood could vote for what color your door is in some areas.
Additionally, the people who vote 51% fail to comprehend that there needs to be a bigger gap for the vote to be definitive, or well just end up flip flopping.
in the case of 65% it is only no as of 65% and only yet as of 65%, which ensures we can close the straw polls early.
Plus, do you really want people to start complaining about the sticky again? If only 50% of people approve of something ,that means the amount of complaints will be higher than the 15% for something that didnt get through.
>>2396105
I am still here, busy with college and other projects.
Will continue once everything is more calm
>>2398286
>>2398302
>>2398140
Let's not overdo it with the strawpolls guys. They are a nice tool to find out the majority preference but we don't have to go full autism mode and put in what has been voted on, we didn't strawpoll about most of the content that is in right now and it worked out. Wikis are not democracies they are more akin to anarchies, if you believe something ought to be there, you are free to write it and add it in.
>>2398434
strawpolls prevent the multi versioning.
>>2389472
we're almost done, all we need is images which we can collect over time...
Have we chosen where to transfer it though?
>>2398434
>if you believe something ought to be there, you are free to write it and add it in
don't add anything in that's already been touched on
one dude was asking if he could add in another artist that does videos (that no one's ever heard of) when we already have material for that.
pls dont over do it on sections that have plenty of refs/links
> How to use this sticky Edit
>This page is meant to be seen by those who want to get into the world of drawing and lack a serious training, be it as a profesion or a hobby.
>profesion
gonna need to run this all through a spellchecker when it's done and ready
>>2400242
we have a write fag or two who said theyd do it.
>>2391775
Does this actually work? Should I attempt this as a beginner if I really want to git gud quick?
>>2400280
if youre an actual beginner youll burn out by following regimes, jsut draw as much as you can and do some occasional studies.
>>2395348
Why not draw a daki and hump that
We've gotten to the point where people have written on top of each other's paragraphs trying to make them more clear. But most of you are afraid to actually delete anything so there's a lot of repetitiveness going on.
Mind if I clean it up and condense a little??
>>2400422
>PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO DELETE OTHER PEOPLES STUFF
>DO YOU MIND IF I DELETE YOUR STUFF
Bro, legit 50% of the original text is me, go RIGHT A FUCKING HEAD. I wrote everything in one stroke and never read back.
>>2400430
AT LEAST I ASKED
thank you sempai
>>2389472
whoever made the drawing table gave me an orgasm.
>>2400436
y-you're making me blush
i autism'd from the top of the page down to "Effective vs Quantitative practice" before stopping. condensed and cut up the text and added a couple of images to make it easier on the eyes.
i wanted to indent the paragraphs but that'll have to wait until the wiki is a little more developed. any editing done after adding indents makes the code implode on itself because wikia is a piece of shit
>>2400517
so far there isn't any "graceful" way to cut in images. again, wikia's editor is really hard to work with.
if anyone can do it better you're more than welcome.
>>2400520
I thought the images were a joke.
>>2400535
they might as well be
but pls keep gondola
>>2400550
put the fucking strawpoll so i can vote no. Gondolas are a shit meme.
>>2400554
>not being for enhancing the page with high-quality memes
>>2391775
Has anyone tried this? What was the result?
Yea, you'd like to outsource to a wiki written by chinese kids wouldn't you?
>>2400805
what are you on?
people need to stop looking for the perfect method to improve and just fucking draw and paint more.
requesting to add alphonso dunn
https://www.youtube.com/user/LighterNoteProd/playlists
Michael Hampton's Figure Drawing: Design & Invention
James Gurney's Color & Light for the Realist Painter
PSG Art Tutorial http://androidarts.com/art_tut.htm
>>2389472
wtf happenned to the wiki?
>>2390313
>loomisloves.us
Not that anon, but back when the original squidoo sticky got deleted, that site was what /ic/ was using as a provisional sticky, written in collaboration using a thread much like this one
iirc the anons writing up that site kept going after the first sticky was restored, but unfortunately it looks like that all fell through
>>2389472
id like to say that i am unable to make changes to the sticky, my writing bar is going berserk. If you can do the change now would be a good time. I have a version of the sticky on my computer on word just incase we ever lose it.
Worse case scenario im transferring it to reddit and ill continue editing from there.
Bumping.
Tests end this weekend so I will finally be able to work on this.
Good job on the pics and that table.
>>2389650
There is a difference between fixing things and innovating things.
>>2404924
it not being good enough is a problem then.
single bump to keep the thread around
>>2406811
the problem is i dont know if its just me but i cant modify it anymore it just goes berserk. We need to swap the emplacement.
Maybe /ic/ can get away with hosting the sticky on wikibooks, just look at the sheer amount of arbitrary and undeveloped trash listed under the """Fine arts(?)""" category
>https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Subject:Fine_arts
Notice there's already an "Introduction to Art" wikibook
I'm retarded so i'm not certain if hosting the sticky there is in compliance with wikibook policy.
>https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:What_is_Wikibooks
I'm guessing we'd have to restructure the text to make it formatted more like a textbook or an instructional guide of sorts, or perhaps a reference manual to a certain extent. But it can't just be a haphazard collection of independent blocks of plain text, connected by hyperlinks arbitrarily, it needs to have structure and hierarchy, with an introduction and (maybe) a conclusion.
>>2397491
all the best anon, get well soon
Is there a way to make a link that directs you to the newest beginner thread?
I saw some anons in /vg/ do it with their splatoon threads. It would be extremely helpful in directing newfags in the right direction.
>>2412058
Ok I'm not a web guy so this might be overly complicated and there might be a really simple solution I'm missing but the only way I can imagine it can be done is to make a simple crawler script that would search thread names and find the beginner thread but the thing is it would have to be rerun periodically because there is no other way to tell if there is a new thread than to search for it. And I don't know that a script like that can be run on a simple wiki hosting web. You would have to pretty much host it on a private server and make it check for new thread every day, then edit the wiki or point the wiki to your server where you can redirect it with the autoupdated link to the newest thread.
>>2412111
>You would have to pretty much host it on a private server
Is that what they're doing? Their URL is
splatoon.ink/ink
That probably doesn't help. I'm not a web guy either, maybe I'll just ask them when I get off work
>>2412315
Well yeah when they put it through a top level domain like that then yes, they have a server with a redirect to the splatoon general. So either someone periodically checks if there is a new general and manually tells the the server to redirect to the new one or as they have a script on the server like I mentioned that automatically every once in a while checks and changes it.
>>2397491
lol fucking public healthcare
>>2389472
you guys were looking for references??
http://www.fusroda.com/resources
good work guys, all that's left to do is to replace the stickied sticky with this sticky.
something that should be explained is the reason why you need to draw from life -- the camera has one "eye", one angle, while you have two eyes, two angles intersecting. simple but thinking about it this way is what finally made me understand it after being told 500 times
