It's happened before many times with law and other seemingly promising degrees. There is always a large number of smart people who will simply pick the most lucrative field of his time based on short term job prospects.
Question is, will it last? How is CS different from other fields like law? There are talks of another tech bubble forming in the industry.
>>51301071
In a way it is a meme degree, but not in the same snes as Philosophy or Liberal Arts degrees. Everyone here will say that its a major for retards whoaren't smart enough to do engineering but its all just memespeeak. In reality there are still a lot of people that jump on the CS band wagon that can't even make it past Programming 101 classes. My C class started out with like 180 people, but now there are only 50 left. Not to mention they get intimidated by the math you have to take. Which isn't even that much considering the amount of math Engineers and pure math majors have to take.
Starting up a new development shop is pretty low-cost, all it takes is you and a handful of friends to make a successful program should you have good ideas. It's a pretty unique in that aspect compared to other industries.
The problem is that most CS grads either can't adapt, or are too autistic to interact with other people and have no business sense. Most don't care much about soft skills, they think their epic programming skills will just magically print money for them.
It doesn't help that larger organizations are bringing in experienced international workers, undercutting wages so people can't start their careers. They also won't train new employees and would rather snipe experienced workers from other organizations.
There's also the fact that there's a huge housing crisis in Silicon Valley and other "tech" cities across the nation, so working at a top tech company might not even be worth it in the end.
there are easier more worthwhile degrees to get.
The problem with CS is once you become an oldfag all the stuff you learnt becomes outdated. its all self learning form that points a degree doesn't have much worth.
The entire cycle is against the natural order of things. Once you become an oldfag you'll feel nostalgic about the old days and feel like shit having to learn stuff 20 year olds are better at doing.
>>51301353
that's why people become managers
>>51301071
According to that graph it's still inder 40,000.
If you want money do computer engineering or Software E
If you want a guaranteed job and live comfy while doing easy classes in uni do accounting, finance, or econometrics. Imagine if you move up and actually put in effort. I know someone in finance that just got hired 120k starting.
>>51301145
Yep, my group theorist friend picked up all the undergrad CS material on the side in like eight months because he wanted to branch out to research in cryptography, security, and complexity.
>>51301071
>first spike in the wake of "Blade Runner"
>second spike in the wake of "The Matrix"
>>51301145
>My C class started out with like 180 people
Can you copy/pasta for the c assignments or are they written fresh each year?
>>51301071
A bachelor/undergrad degree is always a meme. Graduate degree or bust.
>>51301071
Reading this thread freaks me out a little bit. I'm preparing to finish up a master's in computer science and I'm in the triangle area. I'm starting my job hunt next month and expect it to take about 6 months. is this about right? I'm not a typical cs student though...I would definitely classify myself as "above average" simply because the resume of projects I've worked on in the past is very large, my GPA is high and I'm
not an autistic dumbass like so many of my peers.
Initially I wanted a Ph.D. Now I just want a job.
>>51302859
>above average
>hasn't secured himself a job so he doesn't have to go unemployed after completing the master
kek
>>51302785
>Wasting extra time and money on more school when you can take internships instead and be infinitely more desirable
>>51302879
um I have one semester left
>>51301071
>>>/biz/
/g/ - "job prospects"
>>51302920
>wasting time
So is working entry positions desu senpai
>money
Education is free** in my country. Isn't socialism great
>internships
I worked part-time as a programmer during my bachelor's and I worked full time as a software engineer during the latter half of my master's meaning, meaning that I already had a year+ full-time experience when I completed my masters (plus the shitty part-time experience).
>>51302928
>>>/v/
At least this is semi-/g/ related, unlike all the "hurr durr how do I fallout 4" threads currently pestering /g/
>>51302859
In my experience companies are lining up to suck the cock of anyone who can competently develop software. I'm in my last year of a BS in CS and I had multiple well-paying internship options throughout. That experience made finding a full time job pretty easy and I've already got one locked down. Point being, you should be able to easily find a job in 6 months as long as you can code. The graduate classes may have been overkill but they should only help you, obviously.
>>51301145
This. It's a meme field right now, but it's not a meme degree. People get chopped the fuck out in those beginner classes because it's not like English or History where you're writing opinion pieces. You're doing work that has to be objectively correct, and most people don't grasp the concepts that come with data structures and algorithms.
>>51302978
thanks for the information. this is what I was sort of expecting, because I definitely would argue most of my peers did not make it out as competent programmers.
in cs degree programs you end up with two different kinds of people: those of us who started at age 12 and the rest of them who just want money.
>>51301071
>There is always a large number of smart people
No, for smart people, actually smart people, it doesn't matter what they pick, because they can be competent in their field which means job prospects. Real jobs. Not the jobs the average CS grad gets who barely passed even the programming classes and now makes calendar "apps" and calls REST APIs all day. If you're smart than CS is basically a very applied and specialized math degree.
>>51303012
have you ever TAd? I haven't but I know many TAs, and one thing that blows my mind is how few people ever finish a program in a 100% working condition, either because they're too stupid or they started too late (which is a consequence of being stupid). they still pass though.
>>51301145
CS has more math than engineering, considering it is a subset of math. I like to think CS is to Math what chemistry is to physics.
Also physics/CS double major here.
I do the tutoriums for engineering math in our university. It's a joke compared to CS. It's more applied math than CS, as in no proofs and stuff.
> Being self taught
> Being paid a lot for graphics programming
Experience seems to trump paperwork in most companies I've been with. Maybe with government its different idk
>>51301353
If your CS degree consists of teaching the technology of the day leaving you helpless to learn new technologies, your degree was pure shit. Proper CS should be teaching fundamentals that rarely (if ever) change. Proper CS should not be a programming trade school.
>>51303082
You can have both.
Ideally, you should. Anybody who can code but doesn't have a part-time job, should work on open source projects. I got so many job offers because of my shitty github profile alone.
>>51303078
this. actual CS math is hard as fuck. anyone who disagrees has never taken an advanced (PhD level) course on automata/languages/Turing machines or had to prove that their algorithm actually works in a formal way.
I specialize in compilers and that languages class is still the hardest class I've ever taken.
>>51303082
Experience is infinitely more valuable than any degree in CS.
However, getting your foot in the door to actually have that experience is the hard part. My CS degree has largely been useless except for the fact it gets me more job offers now, it didn't teach me anything.
>>51303078
I consider a proper CS degree to be a field of mathematics and distinct to the discipline of software engineering.
>>51301071
When I was in my second year, I started working 20 hours per week as a sysadmin. At home I programmed on an open source project that I used at my job. As well as my owb projects. I did this so much that I neglected school. In my third year I was really behind and went to a convention. All the companies there were hiring and there was one that I thought was cool. Dude's company actually uses the open source tool I worked on and was eager to hire me. Am now working for him earning 60K-ish Euros in Germany. That's above average for almost all STEM jobs.
Degree isnt everything but you have to have something to show for.
>>51301193
>The problem is that most CS grads either can't adapt, or are too autistic to interact with other people and have no business sense.
An engineer is not a designer is not a marketer. Different roles within a business ought to be filled by people of different talents.
>It doesn't help that larger organizations are bringing in experienced international workers, undercutting wages so people can't start their careers. They also won't train new employees and would rather snipe experienced workers from other organizations.
Add onto this, the fact that the government keeps telling people we need more computer science majors, and this is where our issue comes from.
Any degree that isnt a business or law degree from a good University are for working class scum. CS are nothing more than mechanics or plumbers who use computers.
>>51303136
You mean you don't have to design finite automatons and prove NP completeness at work? /s
>>51303207
>implying the ability to recognize an NP complete situation isn't important
kek
>>51303204
>business
Not sure about the US but in Germany, business degree holders have among the highest unemployment rates after graduation. Then again, it is Germany. We're pretty industrial and there is a STEM or bust vibe. Nobody gives a shit about business or law.
>>51303082
protip: people are confused when they believe that CS is a degree in programming
>>51303243
wow that's interesting. I might become a nazi if thats true
>>51303190
>Degree isnt everything but you have to have something to show for.
/thread
Pretty much all there is to it. Show that you're not a lazy fuck and have relevant skills.
>>51303275
the Germans are happy now but ask them in 20 years when they're competing with Ahmed who will work for McDonalds wages. this is after the refugees breed one generation
>>51303243
>>51303275
It's the same in Norway. Even medical doctors have trouble finding a job. Meanwhile, people in STEM (except petroleum engineers) have job offers thrown after them because this generation of losers would rather go to university and study history or literature or feminism than study anything STEM.
>>51303204
Except pal, that somehow those people who had a math heavy degree and/or a degree which requires actual thinking (physics for example or at least an MSc in some usable engineering field) and then went on and to took business jobs they were far more competent because they could understand actual economical models, etc. On the other hand pure business major are only good for talking bullshit and talking people into buying shit. None of them can solve PDEs or understand them and use that understanding to understand economical predictions and company growth models, etc.
>>51303302
That implies the refugees will all manage to get degrees in STEM fields. I doubt they will. Hell, most German students don't.
>>51303305
Is pretty much correct. People study retarded degrees nowadays.
>>51303305
A history education is good to understand politics.
>>51303347
Great...
I'd probably rank history below liberal arts. At least liberal arts has creative writing and other classes that produce something somewhat new.
Can't get creative on history. History is an all-read-don't-produce degree. It's literally economically useless.
>>51303335
I have a feeling the Germans will remove their invaders soon anyway. Just don't lose the war this time plz
>>51303204
You're confused if you believe that CS is about computers. CS is not about computers
>>51303369
Had a female friend who claimed her sister, who was studying history at the time, would get hired by banks for her "looking up"-skills. I laughed so hard she started crying angrily.
Also her sister ended up being unemployed and started working at a bakery.
>>51303347
Politics is about money. How much money you can get and how is largely based on economical predictions and simulations and analysis of behavior in dynamical systems which is done by STE people.
>>51303400
this. it should be called Computational Theory
>>51303404
>Also her sister ended up being unemployed and started working at a bakery.
Now she gets to look up recipes.
>>51303369
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana
Universities are not supposed to be vocational schools. You study a degree because you have an interest in a field. If you want a job, get an education at a vocational school whose sole purpose is to train people for a job.
>>51303419
That's a good name. Other names I've used include "mathematics of computation" and "mathematical analysis in computation with data"
>>51303322
This.
Engineers, scientists, etc. Can make great businessmen. Doesn't work other way round. Professor of mine always said that engineers shouldn't manage because that's be a waste of their skills and potential. However, engineers should be paid more than managers and such. There seems to be a misconception in many big companies where people think the guy playing Solitaire in his office should get the credit for a certain group's performance. Managers should be the glue between departments and teams etc, nothing more
>>51303449
You can pursue your passion in history at home. Why burden yourself or the taxpayer with your economically wasteful degree? History is interesting as fuck but your degree doesn't even give your more authority. History is settled, unless you're into lofty interpretations and online arguments there's not even the possibility to debate. Something either did or didn't happen.
>>51303483
It adds to the phenomena I think that many engineers don't want to actually do anything with business.
>>51303596
I agree.
>>51301353
>The problem with CS is once you become an oldfag all the stuff you learnt becomes outdated.
No it doesn't.
CS degrees over the last 10 years weren't teaching java, they were using java to teach you CS
if you spent years getting a CS degree to be a certified java programmer then you paid for a meme degree
>>51301071
yes.
literally every pleb that isn't biz, is basically comp sci and they are all shit.
The truth is us software engineers / programmers are fucking spoiled brats.
You start off 50-60k straight out of collage. You don't even need to know how to program. Just not be an autistic fuck. No one needs to be able to program to succeed as a programmer. You just copy shit from stack exchange while shooting the shit with your boss riding his coattails. You make 90-100k in 5-10 years almost guaranteed.
Only autistic fucks find it hard to get jobs as programmers. Most programmers easily hop around jobs at will and get tons of perks. We never have to dress up for work, I literally work in a hoodie and sweatpants. Sometimes I don't even shower. We "work" about 35 hours a week, maybe half that just surfing the internet, a quarter compiling, and a quarter copying some section of the code and pasting it somewhere else.
Its such a god tier profession despite what hoards of underage or basement dwelling neckbearded failures claim that its "oversaturated" because they can't interview for shit or aren't likable at all. Its just a lame excuse for their own failures. I love being a programmer, I never in a moment regret my career choice. Tons of my friends bitch about money, working long hours, or dealing with insanely bureaucratic, soulless companies that treat their employees like slaves with no respect. But the tech industry is great, pays well, and most tech companies have a great atmosphere.
More and more jobs are getting automated and optimized by software, not just manual labor, but jobs in finance, marketing, accounting, you name it are all getting replaced by software written by computer science or software/computer engineers.
>>51302738
so, you basically have no intentions of learning? you'll be one of the majority who drop out. i guess some people just enjoy waisting their time
The problem with Computer Science degrees is that schools are calling their Software Engineering programs "Computer Science."
>>51305070
Because CS means what Software Engineering meant 20 years ago. What you think of CS is actually computer algorithm / theory. Your concept of CS is outdated.
>>51301353
CS involves more than just language programming. You learn logic and principles that can be applied to any new language should come up so you shouldn't be left behind unless you forgot those fundamentals principles.
>>51302738
Easy there fella. I'm wondering if the drop outs can't figure out the concepts even with copy pasta, or if the course problems unique each year to ensure original code solutions.
>>51305269
Many people's concept of CS is wrong. It's just like hacking and piracy.
Software Engineer here with 1 yr experience. Should I go for a degree in CS, SE, or Informatics?
People who think degrees guarantee them a good starting salary are honestly clueless. Would any of you change your mind if I told you that specialization through independent research and having good marketing skills is all you need to earn yourself a 6 figure a year starting salary? Marketing is part of the reason why having a degree -helps- with getting a job because it makes your marketing efforts slightly easier (which helps when most people start out not knowing shit about pitching).... but once you actually understand what the fuck it is you're doing when you apply for a job: you won't need a degree -at all-.
I could probably get everyone in this thread 6 figure a year jobs at various silicon valley startups with little more than a Github profile and a blog address. The Github would still have to be good of course, but I can guarantee you the last thing the CTO will care about is some bullshit, meaningless piece of paper you earned by jumping through hoops. Instead, they will expect results that demonstrate you're an expert in their problem space. You show them that and you're hired. That's why I always lel at degree brag fagging. I guarantee you I earn more than everyone in this thread and I dropped out of high school.
Learn the basics of supply + demand, build yourself a good portfolio, and pickup some books on pitching and marketing if you want to jump over the other wage slaves. True story.
>>51304994
Fucking this. But honestly, the job thing depends on the area. I live in the middle of bum fuck no where and it took quite the set of skills to convince companies across the fucking world to hire me as a contractor. It's an acquired thing, but once you learn how to socialize and market better, jesus ... the shit you can get away with.
>>51302152
this desu senpai
>>51306311
Great post, saved. Where do you see the best future opportunities - java/android apps, c/c++ games, web development?
>>51303017
kek desu this:
>in cs degree programs you end up with two different kinds of people: those of us who will never get laid and the rest of them who will
>>51306651
Hey there, have you had a chance to learn about my startup? Basically it's uber for snapchat but airbnb. We're revolutionizing the way people live, and you can join us through our new internship program.
>>51306651
>>51306875
Wow, that sounds like a great opportunity
>>51306651
None of these. You probably don't want to hear this: but these days everyone is a programmer. You go to a company as a "C++ developer" and you can stand in line with the rest of them. Exact same thing for web development but even worse and it's only a little better with games development (specifically asset / modelling and specialized art stuff where you can prove your work looks great.)
But at the moment there's a few things that will make you a "ninja rock star" amongst the next generation of startups: Bitcoin, artificial intelligence / machine learning, drone technology, augmented reality - that kind of thing. My area of expertise is in Bitcoin which is insane at the moment. The entire financial sector is gradually switching over to blockchain technology when there are probably less than 1000 skilled developers world-wide who truly understand this level of tech.
If you want to command an insane salary then go where the startups are and specialize. (You don't need a degree for this.)
>>51306875
Lold. Can't say an intern program at a startup would be very fun but if you can get in as an early stage engineer right after they've raise several mill in seed funding or had their round A, then just man, the level of perks and free will blow you away. Just expect to work so hard that you don't get to enjoy the money you earn ;)
>>51307029
>there are probably less than 1000 skilled developers world-wide who truly understand this level of tech.
top kek. This is university maths. Anybody with a math degree should be able to understand this level of tech.
>>51307050
I have no doubt that you're capable of understanding it. But the question is: do you already have the knowledge? If I told you to create an automated smart contract escrow scheme without third-party trust using only -one- ECDSA key pair on [some obscure blockchain] would you have the knowledge to build it? You could probably Google most of this and learn all about elliptic curve addition, multiplication, and tons of other stuff, but companies need this knowledge now, so unless there's a section in your math degree about building secure smart contract schemes and decentralized autonomous corporations, I doubt you will get hired.
On the other hand, a person with a math degree could run circles around me if you put in the work. It might interest you to know that there are so many unsolved problems in the Bitcoin space at the moment that you could probably become a world-famous expert in this field if you wanted to. Economics is exploding. Cryptography is exploding. And the people who are there first get to pick all the low hanging fruit. The only other area in math that pays this well is automated trading and if you know how to do that, it's only a small leap to Bitcoin any way.
>>51307130
I am a CS graduate and I do love the maths of cryptography but I could not start such a system today. Given a few weeks of study, I'm very confident that I can build something imperfect that passes most checks. The security team will tell me what I'm missing and that feedback will help me improve.
