Discuss pic related. Coding camps vs CS degrees.
>>55259472
>tfw can't wait until the dot com 2.0 bubble bursts
>degrees
do people even care about these things anymore rofl
I'm about to get my CS degree and I still don't understand algorithms and data structures thanks to my shitty professor.
Don't get a computer science degree, get the all-new BMW X1. It leads the pack in cargo space with an impressive, best-in-class 58.7 cubic feet with the seats folded down
Choose control engineering, you will still program but you'll work in an ever growing reality and get shittons of fun
>>55259472
>Implying that he can do anything besides haphazardly gluing libraries/frameworks together
>>55259576
2€ has been deposited into your account, Gustav.
>>55259558
good job blaming your prof for not seeking out information on your own
all this info is readily available on the Internet
>>55259669
BMW shitposting, senpai. i reckon i have another few hours before it stops being funny.
>>55259472
>[Picture of turd]
>Discuss pic related.
>Janitorial training v.s. Rocket engineering doctoral degrees.
depends on what you want to do / if the theory side of CS interests you. also, you probably get more money from a degree
>>55259472
Coding camps won't help you (but then again, neither will a BSc alone).
The Mt Stupid in SE is a particularly high and wide one.
>in case you don't know what that is, pic related
Here's a simple rundown on web software for an example:
>learns syntax of a few languages
>thinks he knows something
Nope.
>learns basic concepts of OOP or basics functional programming
>learns how to use a VCS
>thinks he knows something
Nope.
>learns basics of relational DBs
>learns how to use DBMS APIs in his software
>thinks he knows something
Still nope.
>learns the basics of software architecture
>thinks he knows something
Still fucking nope.
This is where most people stop, but the fact is you can professionally deliver fuck all with this. Until you understand things like (including but not limited to)
>modular design
>ORMs and algorithm complexity
>implementing proper abstraction levels
>continuous delivery/integration tools
>a shit-ton of frameworks incl. frontend and backend
>software security, CORS, HTTP headers
>DB architecture
>REST
>PKI
>AWS architecture
>testing methodologies/frameworks
>etc.
you're a still codemonkey. At best you can maintain existing software by imitating what has been already implemented. Even then nothing's guaranteed. And I'd like to reiterate, that's an incomplete list.
>>55259809
>continuous memeigration
>half of those are just webdev backend shit
>>55259880
>half of those are just webdev backend shit
You don't say? Allow me to quote the post you supposedly just read
>Here's a simple rundown on web software for an example
>on web software
Also, professional frontend development is an entire own hell of its own.
>>55259880
>he only makes WordPress websites
I interview about 5 people a week at my company for Dev and QA positions.
The people from bootcamps are not even qualified for the QA positions.
They spout buzzwords about the latest ABCD stack they were taught and cant actually discuss the ramifications of any of the concepts they regurgitate.
>>55259979
This being said, we also hire people without degrees and with only freelance experience.
In fact three of our best people did not attend college.
>>55259979
>I interview about 5 people a week at my company
>The people from bootcamps are not even qualified
Why would you company give them an interview in the first place? Or are you referring to the phone interview?
>>55259472
CS degrees > codecamps
If you actually give a shit about theory instead of limiting yourself to being a fucking code monkey
Amateurs...
>>55259669
Man, if you could make 2€ per shitpost on 4chan, you could earn thousands a day, you'd be rich as fuck.
Let me know where to sign up.
>>55259576
I was about to sign the purchase contract for this vehicle, when asked the dealer one last question. "Can I install gentoo on this?" I asked. He looked at me with a look of confusion, and said, "no". In a fit of anger, I tore up the contact, and politely told him to shove the car up his ass.
>>55259809
The bottom line is that just by getting a piece of paper you won't get anywhere.
You need to pursue the knowledge actively and immerse yourself in the field. It takes time.
There's no shame in being a codemonkey as long as you're using it as an opportunity to immerse yourself within the field and learn the techniques and technologies used.
And if you are a person that has already put the time and effort in to do this, bootcamps can serve as a means to network and try find a position ( albeit ones with shitty desperate recruiters ) within the industry.
However, this also comes with the caveat that you won't be working on very advanced systems, or in a leadership role, without much tertiary education to back you up.
If that's what you want, be prepared to go for a masters, or phd.
>>55260071
>Why would you company give them an interview in the first place?
Qualifications aren't what they're cracked up to be. You can get an unqualified code-monkey with 5+ years experience in industry versus some certificated bozo out of a coder school.
Every now and then you get a code-monkey who's upgraded his/her qualifications. Hire him/her.
>>55259979
lol
>>55259472
His title says it all
>Associate technical consultant
Barely a notch above working in the computers section at best buy
>>55262026
Why is linkedin such cancer?
>>55259472
These camps bring you from newb up to not an idiot tier.
They teach syntax and basic concepts. I'd argue you should do a camp like this then go into CS with complete knowledge of the peculiarities that language, this way you can focus entirely on theory.
>>55262067
because it's facebook that caters to the MLM and recruitment crowd.
also it's kek worthy how just on like facebook women have the most connections. they are the only ones that give enough of a fuck to keep adding people and keeping their linkedin up to date.
shit don't matter yo
you are maintaining a crud app, no fancy degree or bootcamp is required
>>55259558
What shitty university did you go to?
>>55260071
That anon is just making a story. No serious company would waste their time giving interviews to unqualified candidates.
>>55259576
Why is this so funny
>Johnson, a couple of new CVs have come in, let's have a look
>Yes sir
>What qualifications does yours have, Johnson?
>Sir... *stifled laughter*, it says he went to a "coding boot camp" *uncontrollable laughter*
>Howling laughter can be heard from both men throughout the halls, and the sound of a paper shredder operating soon follows
2nd year CS here. hold me bros. i am so bad at math i literally spill my spaghett everywhere. how can i get through the math? no memes plz
>>55259558
Go to coursera and watch algorithms 1 and algorithms 2. Also get the red book Algorithms 4th edition.
You fucking need this shit to get a job if you're a CS major.
>>55262684
study lots. figure out how to do school.
literally the only way
I would only recommend bootcamps if you get a full scholarship to them.
Most of them are scams trying to get your money but there are some really good ones.
The legit ones I know of are General Assembly and Dev Bootcamp but again only go if you have a scholarship from them.
I tend to notice that people from bootcamps don't have strong programming skills and tend to use buzzwords.
However, bootcamps might provide more experience than a computer science major if the computer science major didn't do any internships during the four years in university.
TL;DR
bootcamp > CS major with no internships
bootcamp <<<<< CS major with at least one internship
Daily reminder that UNIX was invented by a Physicist and Electrical Engineer.
>>55262684
Nigga all you have to do is Khanacademy and you're solid.
>>55262772
hence why UNIX systems dominated
![sJBsCyj[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/dhmC51V.png "sJBsCyj[1].png")
mark my works this guy will kill himself in the next 2 years
>>55262772
Everyone back in the 70s was an electrical engineer. People didn't get Computer Science degrees back in the day.
>>55259809
>>you can't "professionally deliver" fuck all without knowing
>>ORMS
>>Big O
>>implementing proper abstraction levels(lmfao)
>>DB arch.
>>PKI
>>REST
>>AWS
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN SAYING LMFAOOOOOO. Agreed on testing tho.
>>55259472
>associate technical consultant
Do they even let this guy touch the codebase? Oh right they wont, because even though codecamp is just code monkey webdev shit they still only trust that to CS grads in the industry.
>>55259472
>i learned how to translate elementary logic into python
>i'm better than traditionally educated CS majors :^D
>>55259558
>I'm about to get my CS degree and I still don't understand algorithms and data structures thanks to my shitty work ethic and lack of interest in my chosen subject.
ftfy. there is no such thing as a shitty professor, only a shitty student. accountability, fuckface.
>>55259979
This x1000
Coding camps are completely fucking worthless
>>55259472
If you can't make it through college, you are probably going to be a shitty programmer.
>>55259558
I'm from a no name university in Mexico and I got an internship at Microsoft last summer. Stop being a bitch. "Muh school doesn't teach me guys it's their fault I can't study on my own".
>>55263811
Adding to this you really have no excuse, just take intro to algos part 1 and 2 on coursera (the princeton course) and maybe take the stanford one too. Also buy/pirate a fucking book please.
>>55259558
You can learn everything online that's why there are so many pajeets in the US that are not lazy as you.
>>55259558
Fuck retards like you, you won't survive in a real world if you blame your professor for not understand shit that can be easily self-taught. I fucking hate seeing people like you in the industry.
>>55262805
TOPKEK
>>55262806
Is it beneficial to take EE instead of CS?
>>55259558
I'm going for my CS degree and I havn't even purchased a book. I just turn in my assignments because its baby shit and I'm basically just doing it for the paper since I live in boring state where people require degrees.
It's your own fault.
>>55259558
>don't understand algorithms
What does that even mean?
Is there a specific algorithm you don't understand or do you not understand anything?
There is not that many different algorithms:
probalistic: Try something random and see if it works.
greedy: Follow a path until you have a solution. Always take the best option.
divide and conquer: divide the problem into smaller problems until you narrowed it down
You can get a better list at:
https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~matuszek/cit594-2003/Lectures/35-algorithm-types.ppt
And obviously you can mix and match as you need.
When you have understood the concept of that, you can easily understand other algorithms.
Most of them are described as pseudocode, so it is not that hard to understand or implement them.
>>55265360
other anon here. I learn algos on my own. Should I pay attention only to basic DS or things like Ternary Search Trees too?
>>55259472
>did neither
>job in the industry
Bottom line is they're both memes
>>55265413
learn the classics.
Colleges usually teach search algorithms because it is an easy example and there is so many different solutions.
Learning from what works and what doesn't in a situation will make you think about what to use in the situation you are going to do something.
You will come to a problem that you have not encountered an algorithm which solves that problem, but it is very likely that someone else has.
In those situations you should be able to identify the components and the line of thought of the person who developed the algorithm.
If you can see a flaw or a way to improve, great, but at a minimum, you should be able to do understand how others came to the same conclusion.
As for search trees:
Personally, I see three data structures mainly being used:
heaps - if you want max or min value
hash tables - if you want a specific entry
kd-trees - if you want a value close to the search term.
If you want to design databases or filesystems, maybe you want to look into them, but don't spend too much time on trivial things that you have no use for.
There is so much more you need to learn
>>55262805
KEK
E
K
>>55259472
>coding bootcamp graduate
>graduated
>I recommend this over a traditional CS degree
Guy's full of shit.
>all those CScucks
Get a computer engineering degree instead. You won't even have to compete with code monkeys.
>>55265219
no, you would be better off even with a Physics degree
>>55265482
this. I'm self taught and got my first job as an iOS app developer when I was 17 in hs back in 2007. It was surreal back then to be earning $40k/year at 17. Today I make $140k at my job and my highest level of education is a high school diploma. My previous work experience + networking makes up for my lack of a degree.
Why the fuck do people need coding camps?
Can't you download a bunch of e-books for the programing language, get a bunch of program code to analyze, and consult on a forum or in an IRC channel to learn that shit?
At least a CS degree i get (i don't actually because there's better fields to pick for math that would be good for programming, but fuck it).
But coding camps? Retards wasting money camps.
>>55265487
What about sorting algorithms? Should I study them or MergeSort&QuickSort are enough? I know them already
>>55262684
by learning math
>>55262867
>there is no such thing as a shitty professor
what kind of fantasy world do you even live in
>>55262867
>>55263811
>Have an algorithms and data structures class
>Don't teach students about pointers and arrow notation.
>Don't have any notes for the class just wing it as you go along
>Give students an extremely difficult problem even he couldn't solve
>Abandon problem then finally teach an algorithm and a SHIT one (stable marriage problem)
>Forced to curve students
>Attempts to cover it up now by giving us web development for our graduating semester since he wasted our time .
> I wasted time attempting to solve an impossible problem instead of learning data structures and algorithms
>I will now have to teach myself while working a web development job next year
>>55265360
I just need a good resource for self-study. I'm currently working on my math before I go to algorithms since my school doesn't have calculus.
>>55266756
Different anon here.
Knowing how they work is just the first step. You should be able to analyze the run time analysis of the algorithms and derive the time complexity of the run time as the input grows towards infinity.
You should also know the other more basic sorting algorithms such as selection sort and insertion sort to understand what they are/do and why merg sort is better for larger input sizes.
You need to know big oh complexity and basic mathematical proofs around the algos.
Pick up algorithms unlocked then read clrs.
>>55266756
Different anon here.
Knowing how they work is just the first step. You should be able to analyze the run time analysis of the algorithms and derive the time complexity of the run time as the input grows towards infinity.
You should also know the other more basic sorting algorithms such as selection sort and insertion sort to understand what they are/do and why merg sort is better for larger input sizes.
You need to know big oh complexity and basic mathematical proofs around the algos.
Pick up algorithms unlocked then read clrs.
>>55267032
Additional comment.
Start with
Khan academy algorithms
Algorithms unlocked
Clrs
You can do all three at once but is recommend khan academy first since it's a simple intro.
Algorithms unlocked is by one of the clrs guys and easier entry than clrs. You can read both at the same time though.
COMPUTER SCIENCE IS NOT CODING
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>55259472
Coding bootcamp will land you, at best, a QA position at some shitty company with more money than brains, exploiting idiots and barely paying you more money than if you were working at Costco. And really you'll only get hired if you're a troubled black girl diversity hire.
CS Degree is retarded too. Everything they teach can be self taught, it just requires time. Most of the people in this major are retards anyway who put no effort into learning anything.
This whole idea that CS = coding is retarded. Programming is a tool. You're paid to problem solve and for your understanding of how to communicate with clients. Karlie Kloss can write Kode. Karlie Kloss can't problem solve.
>>55267052
Thanks. I enjoy learning new data structures. It is like learning a new spell in magic school xD
>>55259472
CS is not a degree in programming. It's certainly a good thing if you want both programs as they are complementary subjects.
When will this "being a code monkey is computer science" meme end?
>>55267080
You must be 18 or older to browse this site.
>>55266986
>what kind of fantasy world do you even live in
People who get degrees in engineering (get past the weedout classes) learn that how good or shitty your professors are has nothing to do with whether or not *you* learn the material.
Shitty students cry about professors.
You know what material you are responsible for on the first day of class. If you don't learn everything you are supposed to then it is your fault. Sure, having a good professor helps. But your professors didn't study education at their university. And they certainly aren't teaching because they love to teach.
Given the time of day maybe you are not located in the USA. And technical degrees are different. But in the USA, you are responsible for the learning the material.
That is the real world of getting a degree in engineering (and CS) in the USA.
I'm interested in developing some software for VR. Basically something like a VR visualizer of my desktop environment (translating intuitve flatspace into intruive VR space). Yes I know it has been done but I want to do this as a goal project. I am teaching myself CS now and have a lot of experience with higher end logic. How much training would I need? Would a code camp help more than being self taught? Would it be better to go back to uni? I have a masters in an unrelated field FYI.
>>55267524
>I've never been to university
>therefore I'm an expert on worldwide education
>>55267724
My argument is that the student is responsible for learning the material. It doesn't matter how good or bad you believe your professor is.
>I've never been to university
>therefore I'm an expert on worldwide education
I will be more than happy to answer any questions you have about getting a degree in engineering in the USA. And if you want to address any of the points I made in my previous post (>>55267524) then I would be more than happy to respond. Otherwise I'll leave you to your greentexting.
>>55267774
>pay $40k for professors
>"they're not supposed to teach you! Trust me goy!"
You're hilarious. Did you go to clown academy?
>>55267816
They're supposed to teach you, but they aren't required to spoonfeed you. You study their lecture then if you need clarification, you can request for some clarification. They aren't required to do a repeat performance of their lecture just because you failed to comprehend the lot of it the first time through.
>>55268638
Just so you know I'm the anon who will get his CS degree next year and having to teach myself data structures and algorithms after wasting a whole semester doing BS.
You cannot defend this >>55266997
He even apologized to us and said he'd make it up next class we take. Now he cancels the next classes we're supposed to take and has web development classes in place of it. I'm living the CS meme dream
>>55268742
If I was in your situation, I'd seriously be demanding my money back for that class. That was grossly negligent on his part. I just assumed that lecturers would have standard organizational and preparatory skills. It sounds like that guy probably did not even have a lesson plan.
>>55268742
The fact that you're going to a really shitty school that teaches webdev stuff in CS (lol) really isn't proof that CS is somehow useless.
Where I just graduated from CS and Comp. Eng. (which is what I studied) are pretty similar, except CS has more math and computing theory while Comp. Eng. has more hardware and software development courses. However don't get me wrong, Comp. Eng. still has algorithms, data structures and the math that goes from logic to formal languages and automata to programming language compilers and theory.
>>55268870
it didn't teach webdev for CS until now
Since having practical experience and a portfolio is more important to tech employers than any degree, I can see how an intensive bootcamp that focuses on such things could be a better ROI than getting a CS degree in a market already saturated with CS graduates that can't program their way out of a wet cardboard box. I would definitely be careful and research such camps before entering one, though, since people like Karlie Kloss exist.
>>55268903
The fact that they haven't taught it previously doesn't make padding your schedule with it excusable. You're going to a shitty school and it really doesn't represent CS as a whole.
>>55268930
>CS graduates that can't program their way out of a wet cardboard box
As far as my experience goes these people are a myth, mostly propagated by people who are "self taught" or have gone to these "boot camps" and are simply trying to make themselves look better by shittalking the competition.
>tfw fell for the meme of getting a CS degree
>tfw graduated and now a NEET
>>55267618
A code camp will just teach you some popular web stack. Maybe self learn and take those free online CS courses related to what you want to learn
>>55259472
So long as you get the required skills and achieve the industry baseline competence level it doesn't matter either way.
Though some places will require the degree.
Also don't forget the soft skills.
>>55269003
That's totally possible, I'm just going by what I've read online (mostly on 4chan). Bootcamps could just be a total waste of time and money. Do your own research if you want to succeed in any field.
>coding camps
University of Phoenix tier
>>55259558
You will not survive the workplace.
In any IT profession you are expected to continually learn and expand your knowledgebase.
Invest in your education. stop thumbing your arse shit gibbon.
>>55259472
>Kenneth Kinder
>Keiran Korsa
>Karlie Kloss
Is someone really bad at making fake twitter personas so they can hype/shill their own product?
>>55269072
>That's totally possible, I'm just going by what I've read online (mostly on 4chan)
Well I'm going by knowing actual CS students and what their curriculums contain. I think that trumps hearsay pretty well...
>>55262847
I'd agree on the meaning but not the content.
Having knowledge about common frameworks, libraries, methodologies and practices currently used in Industry is important in all IT fields.
>>55267816
At this level of education they layout the basics and are there to answer questions.
You are expected to do the work, put in the effort and LEARN as you would be expected in a professional workplace.
>>55269215
I was helping some CS students before that had a professor that was actually teaching concepts and terms incorrectly.
>>55259472
>Coding camps vs CS degrees
They are both trash for their own special reasons.
>coding camps
Lack of theory means you will be back after a couple years when the meme tech used for training is obsolete and you don't have enough understanding to pick up other things easily. Lack of cursory understanding systems and language lead to trash code.
>CS degree
Lack of trade means having to take up an internship where somebody is willing to teach you real world basics; companies hate having to train FNGs even if they do turn into hotshot coders. Most degrees don't pack enough math for proper data analyst work. On a positive side, a decent CS person can pick up new technology without too much fuss.
If you are really determined to sit behind an IDE, what you really want is a Software Engineering degree that gets between the two extremes.
As of now, the software field is flooded with CS degrees thinking they are going to code the next botnet and ride it to glory or Indians looking to break into the murrican market for murrican money (and don't seem to care that the H1B will be charged back to them).
>>55269003
I know at least one guy that literally didn't understand for loops after 4 years and still graduated CS with a 3.0 GPA.
>>55269215
You don't even begin to understand what you're talking about. There's no way you're even through highschool yet.
