Why people say Python is shit?
Because people think easy = shit like always
>>54920637
this. if you didn't suffer when you learned to code, you're not "legit".
it's like if frats were run by autistic nerds.
There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.
- Bjarne Stroustrup
jack of all trades, master of none
Because it's completely backwards and teaches bad habits when compared to standard languages. Python should never be your first language, and when you've learned other languages, you're smart enough to realize Python shouldn't be your second, or third, or fourth, either.
>>54921122
you're being a little bitchy, faggot.
>>54921122
I disagree. I learned Python first because it's easy but in hindsight it forces good indentation. After a three C++ programming courses at uni, people still don't indent or use curly parentheses correctly.
>>54921122
I've used C, C++ and Java for ~15 years, mostly game development and I disagree that Python teaches bad habits. All it doesn't teach is how things work at a lower level and if you actually want to contribute in this world, unless lower level intrigues you, or you need to do intensive programming, it's better to stick with Python.
>>54921167
I'm sorry, have you been a fucking programmer for 20 fucking years of your life? No?
Then shut your mouth, you little shithead Dumbest Generation child.
>>54921173
You teach good indention by TEACHING GOOD INDENTION, not designing your goddamn language around using whitespace as a substitution for fucking code block delimiters which are SEARCHABLE, MAKES THE CODE EASIER TO FUCKING UNDERSTAND, and common goddamn sense.
Python is a huge clusterfuck and should rid itself from the fucking world. It is the new BASIC and to paraphrase Dykstra regarding BASIC, mentally mutilates everyone that learns it.
>>54921122
Why?
Coming from someone who learned Scheme, C, C++, and Java before learning Python, I pretty much use Python for everything nowadays.
It just makes things so much faster to develop.
>>54921122
Wtf are "standard languages"?
>inb4 java is one of these standard languages teaching "good" practices
>>54921225
hi welcome to >>54920657
>>54921225
Most people are lazy and won't indent correctly unless they have no choice. After long enough that will be in the habit and will do it automatically.
>>54921225
>only gripe is indentation
Full retard. Also coming off languages that use panenthesis or delimiters, the coding style doesn't change, your indents are the same either way.
>>54921239
How the fuck is Python faster than C to develop? Having to re-implement every goddamn thing ass-backwards from any logical, common sense way to do things takes an insane amount of time.
Holy hell, python has poisoned the minds of would-be programmers. I hope it dies.
>>54921122
What if I am a math major and think matlab is bullshit? throw away code for a paper is a valid use case
>>54921259
>How the fuck is Python faster than C to develop
i can't even imagine how incompetent you would have to be for this question to be real.
>>54921259
>Having to re-implement every goddamn thing ass-backwards from any logical, common sense way to do things takes an insane amount of time.
Which is why Python is faster to develop in than C
>>54920610
Because people especially programmers whine a lot. Python is a good Lang. It has good sides and bad like many Langs do.
>>54921257
you can also have a source beautifier automatically run on checkin, only bikeshedding retards who don't know what they're talking about sperg on braces
Nothing wrong with Python. About the braces versus indentation thing, the truth is, indentation is more clear and readable, especially to someone without a programming background, and it works well - it also forces you not to nest stupidly deep.
Now, is this sort of forcing always good, no. Java and C# are bad in a similar way that they preach one thing (object oriented design) and in the process, force you to do stupid shit like wrapping global variables and functions inside classes. Or Java's error handling when handling different types. But those are high performance languages with a completely different purpose than Python, and in terms of programming paradigms, Python gets a clear name anyway, so I don't feel like its treating me like a child as I do with Java and C# and the like.
All in all, Python is good for what it does and unlike some people claim, its a great first language - it was mine as well yet I feel I'm fairly adequate at more traditional programming now and don't feel like starting out with a language like Python anyhow hindered my progress - if anything, it made me think a lot about structuring my code in a readable form. People who are against starting out with a simple language like Python that forces certain structural principles are often overly old-fashioned. To those people, I would suggest watching the "Stop teaching C" talk on Youtube from a CPP con not long ago - it goes on to talk about stuff like why you should use std::string instead of char pointers and range based loops instead of the normal i less than x type of thing when getting people into programming - those things are not important to know, what they first need to learn is the very basics of what programming is. Python does a good job at making that easy.
>>54921285
Python is the ass-backward language, you dolt. Enjoy having nothing make any sense from any fucking thing you've ever conceived of and can push out in no fucking time at all in C while trying to find the beginning and end of a goddamn block because you can't just fucking search for a goddamn bracket because python is a special kind of fucking STUPID for using whitespace for that shit.
Python should die.
>>54921451
you need to trip so we can identify right at the outset what a fucking faggot you are
>>54921451
So your main gripe about a language is you can't jump from one brace to another? Look, first of all if you're writing functions that are multiple pages long, I'm not sure you're using the correct language for the job in the first place. But second, that's such a minor gripe its unbelievable and actually obsolete, because indentation makes you clearly see where scope ends, visually, as you simply scroll through a page.
>>54921451
sounds like your editor is shit
I've posted this before and I never save it.
>no TCO by design
>shit threading, to the point that forking off a whole new fucking process is usually better
>shit lambdas
>forced whitespace
>REPL is shit at reading said whitespace and figuring out where functions are. Can't paste code into REPL easily if you've formatted it decently
>odd scoping rules
>huge fucking mess of a transition from 2 to 3 that's split the community
>variables silently changing types leads to fun bugs
>no number tower
>a pain to embed
>can encourage bad habits in a novice programmer if they're not careful
I don't like it very much but I use it from time to time when it fits the job. I don't really like the philosophy behind it (There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.) and I'd rather use something like Lua for my scripting.
this thread
/g/ in a nutshell
I've been learning Python as my first language. I haven't gotten anywhere significant yet.
Should I ditch Python for something like C++?
>>54921878
I know that guy, he is /fit/
>>54922001
I'm >>54921845, it doesn't really matter. Learn to program, don't worry so much about learning this or that language. Python's going to be significantly easier to figure out the basics in than C++ imo. You should learn both and many more in the end.
>>54921451
You use no punctuation within your sentences, this makes them difficult to read.
Fuck you.
It is a very good scripting language. I don't know about writing big programs with it, this is probably where you want static typing, but for small programs/simple web applications it is a good choice. Use Python 3 and don't write C-like code in it and it's very good.
People hate it because it's cool to hate programming language.
>>54922066
Yeah I've seen him, he's jacked, but ugly as fuck.
Proof that being jacked =/= attractive.
>>54921225
WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY YOU LITTLE BITCH? I HAVE OVER 9000 CONFIRMED PULL REQUESTS ACCEPTED AND CAN FIZZBUZZ IN 700 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.
>>54921122
This farting cuck doesn't understand the point of python.
Some of us just want to bash out a bit of code to do something, we don't all program for the sake of autism.
Relax yourself. It's fast and dirty if need be, but can also be done properly too.
>>54921259
RetardAlert.png
>>54920610
Perofrmance-wise it's crap.
Personally I love the grammar and simplicity.
>>54922794
The way the grammar handles expressions vs statements is annoying. Especially when dealing with lambda expressions. Otherwise it's alright.
>>54922794
Lots of applications will be IO bottlenecked anyway
>>54922834
You can always wrap statements in functions to use them as expressions, but I agree with your point.
+ list comprehension is so fucking sweet
>>54922865
Fucking decorators are cool as shit. It's the one thing in python that I really like.
>>54920610
> because of fucked-up scoping rules
> because of no proper encapsulation
> because of no type hinting
> because of global interpreter lock / no threading in CPython
> because slow as fuck even for an interpreted language
> because the community comes up with pretentious, cringeworthy bullshit like "Zen of Python" or the word "pythonic". Even the name itself is cringeworthy (look how cool I am, I appreciate Monthy Python so much, I decided to name a fucking programming language after it!)
>>54923221
Better than 'c'.
Literally third tier in the alphabet.
Literally the "worse than beta" language.
Python is neat and powerful, deal with it
>>54920610
Python is a good language and very easy to learn. Most of the problems with it are way overblown.
>Threads suck because of the GIL: won't matter to most beginners or in most scripting use cases
>Standard library uses inconsistent style and naming conventions: Easy to get used to, and the same can definitely be said about the C standard library, which has still managed to withstand the test of time
>Whitespace dependent: only an issue if you like to nest stuff more than 4 blocks deep (which can almost always be avoided anyway)
>No type system: This applies to any untyped language as well as python (who would have guessed?). It's generally considered a feature, but I agree that it can make larger applications tough to debug.
My main issue with python is that it's easy for beginners to get to the point of being "good enough" with python and then immediately start contributing shitty code. This has nothing to do with the language itself, but it just makes me more wary about relying about using python written by other people in anything important.
>>54921225
Wow.
Look gramps, people use python because it's quick and easy to get out a working prototype quick. People who write web scripts and automation tools in python can do it 6x faster with way less verbosity and still compile to a relatively high efficiency. I know that everyone here likes to pretend like you're "not a real man" if you don't choose some shit hipster language that was popular in the 70s, but the fact is that people using python are probably writing way more code than you at a marginal loss.
>>54921259
>>54920610
Just look at the implementations, there you have your answer.
>>54924225
>spotify
>bittorrent
>youtube
>dropbox
....
>>54924263
silly faggot, those are companies, not implementations of a python interpreter
>>54924301
But all of these things were written with python, at least in their first implementations.
srs
>>54924322
>at least in their first implementations.
That doesn't make it less pleb. They are only plebbing webservices.
And the only relevant ones (dropbox, yt) switched or are looking for a way out.
>>54924559
I'm sure your projects are far less 'pleb' and far more popular/useful than youtube.
>>54921845
>Can't paste code into REPL easily if you've formatted it decently
use a semicolon.
>>54924559
Pinterest runs on flask+py
>>54924671
No no.
Anon's projects are far superior to Pintrest, Instagram, Dropbox and youtube.
That's why he's a 6'7 billionaire with a 12" cock.
>>54921259
kys
>>54922210
>ugly as fuck
What? He just has a shitty haircut. Other than that he's a pretty regular looking dude
>>54921243
Probably c you, p easy and after you have all of the basics down tou're basically set to learn everything else comfortably
>you will never be smart enough to code
Suicide soon
>>54924759
>Just a shitty haircut
Really?
I'm sorry senpai. He's legit ugly.
Mirin his body though.
>>54924775
I know C and I've used C since I was 14 and before I used Python. I still don't see why Python is terrible.
>>54924898
Not op of the post you replied to
I think it's great as long as tou dont get stuck in it and branch out to other programming languages before you settle with your "thing"
>>54925041
>not op of the post you replied to
>you
Im retarded I meant I
Python is cool, it's just Pythonfags can be cultish and /g/ likes to be contrarian
Opening up a well-architected Python codebase is a pleasure to be honest
Python is pretty shit when it comes to multithreading and multiprocessing (one is a pain to correctly implement due to GIL and the other is completely impossible in Windows without runningif __name__ == '__main__'
>>54921259
I hope you quit programming because you sound like a little bitch who doesn't want to try or learn new languages/concepts.
>>54924759
>not ugly
>>54921122
>>54921259
exquisite b8
I do Python programming for a living, but I'm more versed in C and C++
My gripes are:
>never liked multiple inheritance in other languages, and Python's implementation is still iffy, even if deterministic and sensical when you understand MRO
>python 2 or python <3.5 had no type hinting, and I use py2 mostly at work since it's an old company which started with it. Even then type hinting does not prevent you from passing in an incorrect parameter, it's literally just a hint
>speaking of above point, python transition from 2 to 3 is largely unmanageable if you work in a corporate environment with huge codebases and code manipulating delicate information
>unicodedecodeerror fucking everywhere. I'm not sure if you see it much in py3 considering unicode is the default, but it's a nightmare in py2
>awful lambdas. Emulating multiple-line lambdas in a lambda statement is easy, but ugly, but multiple lines is useful at times when python doesn't completely give you the tools you need to manipulate data in a specific way you want
Probably a few more. My main gripes usually only apply to python 2, and I use python 3 in my spare time, with my own business I'm going to try to start running, so I don't mind much.
Even with these few cons, I'd give python a 9.5. It's a language you could use for the rest of your programming career. People will give it shit for dynamic typing, indentation, speed, huge standard library which people believe will encourage not reimplementing them, but I'd say these are pros.
Tech evolves, people abstracted from assembly because langs like C were necessary, and people abstracted even more to OOP langs. As processing power increases, and implementation concerns lessen, being versed in Python can get you ahead of the game, and implement things that contribute to your personal life, as well as the world.
As someone once said, computing time is only important if your own time isn't
>>54925041
I know C, Java and Python
Also familiar with (have written at least something in) Go, Scheme, Haskell, asm and C++
>>54922316
new potencial copy pasta kek
>>54920610
I think it's better than java
If I needed performance I'd use C++/C
>>54922316
le upboat
>>54924601
Yes, they are, given even fizzbuzz is more useful than those botnets.
>>54924700
You got that right, except for the 12" cock. That would be disgusting and one would always blackout and become braindead when getting a boner.
>>54921122
I bet he's a Ruby faggot lol
>>54921259
>>54927959
>Brain-dead from getting a boner.
I fail to see how this would be different from the normal you. Faggot.
>>54920610
#1 rule: never listen to other people. Choose the languages you like based on your own informed decisions. I like python and i'm using python for one of my new projects. Always remember that other people are just little nigger faggot bitches in God's eyes. So don't worry about what they think.
>>54921451
This guy is the most obvious troll I've ever seen.
how do all of you retards not realize that it's the use case that's import to consider here. python is obviously strong for scientific computing; scripting, statistics, big data, machine learning, bio informatics, combinatorics, game theory, optimization APIs, visualization.
not everything is about software engineering.
>>54922001
If you aren't going anywhere significant that's on you, not your language.
Stay with Python until you go somewhere significant. Move to C next, not C++.
You'll have to acquaint yourself with OOP eventually;
but trust me, you want to put off learning it.
>>>54923221 I appreciate Monthy Python so much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso
>>54921173
>uni
taking a hindi class for 3 years will prepare you more for the software industry than a coding class
>>54921225
Just cuz you've been programming for 20 years doesn't mean you're good.
>>54922735
>Relax yourself. It's fast and dirty if need be, but can also be done properly too.
point
>>54921167
>little bitchy, faggot
Your comma placement indicates your name is faggot, try this next time:
little, bitchy faggot
>>54922316
adequately-rated post
I know Python decently well (been using it for a year). I want to learn a language from the C family next: do I go with C or C++? /g/ tells me that OOP is shit, but most other places seem to prefer C++.
>>54937013
C next.
It's the more interesting language and there are more concepts to master.
Pickup Java/C#/C++/whatever afterwords, but stay on C for a long while.
You'll be better off for it.
>>54920610
It's funny how some morons say python is a "backwards langauge" when actually it's such a modern and well designed language.
It's nice to learn some C along the way, but do you want to get productive with it? No you don't.
So much unnecesary stuff, such an insecure language.
Why typing 10 lines when you can afford the same result in 2 lines? It doesn't make sense, especially not because develloper time is much more expensive than processing time.
C will always have its place, but this "you have to suffer to learn programming" is a meme of those neckbeards who are relicts of a dying age and want to feel nerdcore about programming.
/g/ - quality threads
>>54921225
>fucking code block delimiters which are SEARCHABLE
Why the fuck would you ever search for closing and ending braces? Sounds like something you would only do if the indentation of your code is fucked so you don't know where your current block ends.
>>54938223
Or use an editor which doesn't allow you to jump to end of block (end of paragraph in vim) or collapse blocks (with the collapse stuff in vim).
Whats is the best book to learn python?
I dont mind it being a challenge, but I really want the best for a noob.
>>54938300
Do the MIT course on EDX.
Code academy a shit
>>54921845
Basically this. I'm vehemently opposed to python 2 but python 3 I merely dislike. Overall 3 is a lot better-structured and consistent. The only problem is stubborn people who refuse to move on.
Python is shit when it's used for large/serious projects.
It's great for scripting and prototyping, but some companies are using it for large applications because it's super easy to use.
The market is overflowing with programmers nowadays. How is it that companies still can't find enough competent workers so they don't have to force this kind of stuff?
How can you graduate without a reasonable proficiency in C/C++ or Java?
REMOVE GIL
>>54938559
They tried and performance got worse on cpu bound code. Their interpreter is not designed for threading and the overhead from locks around the various globals is just too much.
>>54938417
>MIT course on EDX
Thanks.
Youre talking about this one?
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-mitx-6-00-1x-7
If you're doing shit on minimum-cost microcontrollers you aren't going to be using python. If you are trying to develop an app for cell phones you aren't going to use C.
Tool for the fucking job you autist fucks.
>>54938926
>If you're doing shit on minimum-cost microcontrollers you aren't going to be using python
http://playground.arduino.cc/Interfacing/Python
And on the microcontroller itself, you can write Python for the Intel Galileo.
Also, RaspPi
>>54938955
You gonna tell me that Intel Galileos, Rasp Pis, or the fucking ARDUINO are low-cost microcontrollers?!
I'm talking actual microcontroller shit not just hobbyists who think toggling LED's on and off is real "embedded programming" and PWM LED brightness adjustment is getting "close to the metal."
Fuck you for your lazy rebuttal you moronic cunt; you missed my entire point.
Okay fuckers, I've avoided participating in a language shitposting thread for like year, so I think I'm due:
Brevity is great an all but like, for real, if all you do is write 200 line fizzbuzzes then get the fuck out of my face. The marginal advantage of one language over another decreases proportionally with the size of the program.
Only as you increase the size of the project does the choice of language begin to make a tangible difference, and that is where python drops off a cliff. Python is shit because of the type system. Not because like whitespace or whatever else people bitch about. Duck typing blows chunks. If you find yourself always putting the type in the variable name, you fucked up. If you routinely find yourself reading your coworkers' method definitions because you can't infer from your shitty documentation and from the lack of types in arguments, you all fucked up. And you're fucking boned if you want a nonshit method overloading system because well, you don't any fucking types to differentiate. So now you end up typenames in your method names.
just end it fampai
>>54939356
Language wars are fucking stupid. I would love to discuss python with someone who likes it and is knowledgeable about programming languages but I've never gotten a serious reply to my complaints >>54921845
It's not like there isn't anything to like in python, I actually really enjoy playing with decorators even if it is a bit hacky. There's just never anyone who wants to discuss these things.
>>54938697
Yes. I'm doing it at the moment. I found code academy repetitive and boring. Nothing really sinks in. I kept stopping and starting and forgetting stuff.
That course explains the basics and principles behinds stuff, and makes it stick.
Make sure you do the online problem sets. It gets you thinking. I'm finding that trying to solve stuff from project Euler helps too, even if it's just the easy ones.
>>54939129
You type like a tumblrette
>>> ''.split()
[]
>>> ''.split(' ')
['']
>>> from decimal import Decimal
>>> Decimal(1.0) == 1.0
True
>>> Decimal(1.0) + 1.0
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'Decimal' and 'float'
>>54921845
so much this. I needed a fast scripting language to learn a year ago, and was looking at python, perl, ruby, etc.
Was really liking python, then seen all of the shit this anon have been citing. Nope, nope, and nope.
Ended up learning clojure. It's better to fire up an entire fucking jvm just to accomplish simple tasks, but the language is fucking godlike. The only regret is for JVM and its retarded inability to TCO.
>>54940159
I don't see a problem there. It's logical that 1.0 equals 1.0 but Decimal(1.0) + 1.0 is meant to return an error because the interpreter can't know whether you want the result to be a float or a decimal. There's a big difference between those two types.
>>54921225
>You teach good indention by TEACHING GOOD INDENTION, not designing your goddamn language around using whitespace as a substitution for fucking code block delimiters which are SEARCHABLE, MAKES THE CODE EASIER TO FUCKING UNDERSTAND, and common goddamn sense.
You forgot "allow automated tools to format the entire code to company coding standards". Faggot.
>>54940135
at least try>>> ".split()
File "<stdin>", line 1
".split()
^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
>>> ".split(' ')
File "<stdin>", line 1
".split(' ')
^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
>>>
>>54920610import os
while(1):
os.fork()
>>54940536
the first one was two 's not a single "
>>54921122
>Because it's completely backwards and teaches bad habits when compared to standard languages.
Then why is it taught as an introductory language in so many unis, including MIT? Oh, right, I forgot that a random nerd on an anonymous image board always knows better than those stupid academics.
>>54938697
This course is gold. It's hard, though. I wouldn't say Codecademy is a total waste of time. It will prepare you just enough that you won't have to lose time with very basic stuff in the edx course.
>>54921225
How can someone be this mad over python
>>54941244
Just some oldfag who is butthurt that programming is not about cryptic alphanumeric macros anymore..
I guess he didn't even use Python a single time.
>>54941137
it's true though. the reason they teach it is so normies can get over the DUR CUMPEWTER MAGICIANS hump and apply their mind to logically walking through things on a similar level to how actual computer programs are written
>>54941371
Right, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Machines should serve men, not the other way arround.
If someone really feels the need to go closer to machine language he can still learn C afterwards.
>>54921225
>grr i cant stay the same forever.
C# > OCaml > Ruby on Rails > Java > Python >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Perl > PHP
>>54921225
>I'm sorry, have you been a fucking programmer for 20 fucking years of your life? No?
Step aside, youngling, back in MY days, we used to change current values MANUALLY.
Kids this days.
Retarded jokes aside, this is often both sad an hilarious approach. That you clearly are not mad over programming language, but how people DARE to code without going the same way as you did. That young people dare to enter your magical realm, where only wizards can travel. That your precious, specialistic knowledge is not limited to "chosen ones" like you. Deep inside, you would rather see the world locked in place, with only selected few praised and feared for their mystical skills. Deep inside you fear that this is the only thing making you worth something - which is naturally not true.
Sounds weird, but I would do suggest you to visit psychologist.
>>54921451
Even people who use Python use comments dude
