Which programming language do you avoid like the plague?
>>54889233
ruby
php
Rust. Swift. Haskell. F#. Scala.
Basically all the meme wankwank languages dweebs bleat about on here. I've learned them all enough to know I have no use for them, or that at worst they're just shit for anything other than bragging about using them.
Ruby (literally just because I've heard its bloated buggy bullshit) and .NET (because it's bullshit methods used during library calls make the cleanest code written for it preform like spaghetti code written by a 13 year old in BASIC)
python and java.
A few applications is good, but when people are generally too lazy to program, the end result is not good.
>>54889233
Java; holy fuck javashit mcshitnuggets
>need 2 debug? heres 100 lines.
>need to use a library that should be standardly implemented? Better make a fucking for loop for all those imports cause ur gonna be here awhile
>>54889233
C and C++
It's such a stupid clusterfuck to dick arround with pointers, also there are basically no Jobs out there outside of Kernel develloper, GameDev or technical systems.
You need twice the time to devellop something which is a fraction of split seconds faster than Java. But you pay with buffer overflows, memory leaks, shitty exceptions handling and bad threads.. but hey you are a split second faster!
Such a stupid nonsense.
>>54889421
>I avoid these languages because I'm to dumb for pointers and a slow typer
>No jobs other than the good payed ones
OK.
Ruby just because it's slow as fuck, especially those JVM implementations. Sure it's pretty but not *that* much prettier than say... Python.
>>54889421
>>54889233
PHP, SQL
I just hate them and everything DB based
Visual Basic
everything about it is baffling
>>54889298
Scala is especially macabre. It's just an absolute abortion of a language.
Really tired of this "functional AND object-oriented :-)" shit
>>54889626
>SQL
What do you use instead?
>>54889421
pajeet please go
Nice reddit pic, faggot.
Go, Ruby, any functional hipster language.
>>54889702
>Ruby
>Functional hipster languages
I can understand that, but why Go? Granted it's basically useless for everything except concurrent servers, but still.
>>54889660
Yes. Im curious as well.
>>54889626
>SQL
I couldn't agree more.
>>54889660
Not him, but I find I can very often get by with a simple BSDDB instead.
For the cases where that's not possible, I've started playing with a custom database library based on BSDDB that implements a pool of arbitrary objects, and far more direct access to indexes into it. It's still a fairly early project, so I don't know how useful it will become in he end, but I have some hope.
>>54889421
pajeet confrmed
Go shit all over your designated java keyboard so I can have job security rewriting your trash in C++
>>54889331
I suggest a proper IDE for the latter
>>54889813
>needing a IDE to do the simplest of things
Keep confirming that java is an awful abomination. it tickles.
>>54889494
No, they are just bad langauges.
Languages that were designed when Atari was a thing and CPUs were slow and RAM was expensive.
And then some people develloped giant projects, whole operating systems in C, because it was "state of the art" back than.
And then every generation has to deal with this giat amount of shit code. And they tell themselve "Oh wow, thers's so much C/C++ code, it must be good for something!". Like Crabs in a basket each generation carries on to maintain and write in this fail of computer langauges.
>"Let's eat shit, 10,000 flies can't be wrong!"
C and C++ are the very definiton of technical debts.
>>54889555
Let me guess:
Arch user?
>>54889664
Nice meme, friend.
The industry would like to have a word with you..
G (as in LabVIEW)
Fuck graphical programming, seriously.
php, ruby and the microsoft languages
- php is a fractal of bad design
- ruby has a syntax that makes it look like it was typed with someone's face
- VB is just a bizzarre set of anti-patterns masquerading as a language and it is slow as FUCK
not sure if it's technically a language but i try to avoid mySQL. i don't mind SQL (SQLite is nice) but mySQL is just an unstable resource-hungry POS
>>54889803
> so I can have job security rewriting your trash in C++
This amount of delusion..
>>54889233
Haskell
PHP
>>54889660
I read sql server 2016 is heavily integrated with R. Maybe there might be some work-arounds with R to make queries? But that sounds fucking way harder and a lot more work than it's worth.
>>54889857
> Pajeet and Rasheed breed like cockroaches
> Prabesh my son, it is time to learn Java
>>54889839
limiting your project to C means that people
don't screw that up, and also means that you get a lot of programmers that
do actually understand low-level issues and don't screw things up with any
idiotic "object model" crap.
>>54889233
Java.
>>54889857
There are no job adverts for C because turnover is incredibly low. Want to know why? Because we code with something other than our curry-scorched assholes.
>>54889856
How the flying fuck is any SQL any different from the other language wise. Maybe their RDBMS s/w is different but the actual language?
>>54889833
I'm kind of curious as to what you're trying to do that you describe it yourself as "the simplest of things" yet you still apparently need a "for loop for all those imports".
Could it be that you're just a bad programmer?
>>54889903
i like SQL, mySQL is just a shit piece of software
Out of languages that I use I try to avoid bash because complex string manipulation gets pretty fucking annoying with it.
I try to avoid python because 3 is replacing 2 but whenever I program in python 3 I end up in situation where the useful libraries are only for python 2.
I try to avoid java because trying to code java without IDE is annoying and I don't always machine with machine that has enough storage for IDE for java.
>>54889877
I guess it's hard to get your jobs outsourced because amerifats suck at coding so badly..
>>54889885
Brilliant idea, Linus!
Why not using Assembly?
The wierder and uglier the language, the smarter the coders, right?
:^)
>>54889923
Wow I'm stupid, I sped read like a true sped.
My apologies for not reading your post properly.
C and PHP, because they're both incredibly poorly designed bug prone shits that remain inexplicibly popular.
>>54889946
They are popular, because they're USEFUL. WTF do you use then? Batch?
>>54889966
machine code desu
>>54889902
10/10
>>54889966
>They are popular, because they're USEFUL.
Hahaha..
So what part of C makes it "usefull" then?
C fags in denial, LMAO
I'm starting a 3 month PHP + Sql school course in just a few days. This is also my first serious attempt at programming. How fucked am I?
>>54889928
>Not enough storage to install an IDE
What the fuck? IntelliJ is 260 MB, Eclipse 140 MB. Even for a raspberry pi that's not much storage space.
>>54889902
Keep telling yourself that, C pajeet.
You're coding in a dying langauge.
Server-side JS
>>54889981
>phpajeet
>>54889906
Different dude responded to you but w/e lol
>>54889331
get out kris
>>54889521
Ruby isn't slower than Python. I hate that people still believe this nonsense.
>>54889979
The fact that you can write relatively non-bloated shit code that is readable regardless?
>>54890022
But I'm white.
>>54890054
Not anymore.
>>54889725
>basically useless for everything except concurrent servers
I've had decent success using it for terminal-based utilities too, but outside of those two categories it is legitimately painful to use.
When you're working within those two categories, however, Go is a fucking godsend.
>>54889421
Im a C illiterate dumbfuck.
What's a memory leak?
>>54890046
Quite the opposite..
>An analysis of GitHub data shows that C developers are creating the most ugly hacks — or are at least the most willing to admit to it. To answer the question of which programming language produces the most ugly hacks, ITworld's Phil Johnson first used the search feature on GitHub, looking for code files that contained the string 'ugly hack'. In that case, C comes up first by a wide margin, with over 181,000 code files containing that string.
>http://www.itworld.com/article/2918583/open-source-tools/c-leads-the-way-in-ugly-hacks.html
>>54889856
Ruby syntax needs no semicolons, rarely needs parentheses or curly braces, has clearly named functions for almost every basic task...it's the easiest & cleanest syntax I've ever seen. What's not to like?
>>54890120
It's when an application keeps using more and more memory the longer you use it. You've surely encountered this with some shite program that you left open for 3 days or so and came back to find it taking up 6 gorillion bytes in RAM.
>>54889981
They will make you a codemonkey. Which is probably better than your current situation
>>54889656
>citation needed
>>54890126
> clickbait article
> journalist uses search function once and writes article
> only looks at code from people who know their hacks are ugly and are willing to admit it openly
I had a decent reply all typed out but it isn't worth it.
That """article""" is bullshit.
>>54890120
C comes form a time when people thought it was cool to manage your own memory. In fact is WAS a good idea when disc space was expenise, so you could free the used space once you were donce with it.
Nowadays it's a nightmarish and stupid "feature" that you have to to declare and free the use disc memory.
Java (and every sane language) does this automatically, and that makes it a BAD language according to /g/ because people think an awkward language will save their jobs form getting outsourced and only attract "smart" programmers (as those folks like to see themselves).
Python.
Mandatory indentation is literally a retarded idea. And its OO model is a complete joke.
>>54890204
You should be indenting your code anyway. I fail to see how this is a problem.
> OO model
Don't use it then.
Ruby is a load of wank. Barely any users outside of the Rails crowd, low amount of good documentation, piss-slow interpreter and the language itself is the mongoloid child of Perl and Python with added >muh blocks. Ditch this shit.
>>54890154
>>54890199
Thank you for the thorough replies, based anons.
>>54890180
>he wants citations in opinions
>>54890195
Wow, C code quality is below JavaScript..
Who would have known?
>>54890030
ruby is about the same order of magnitude as python, it's just ugly. post you're replying to never claimed that ruby was slower than python, just that they were both about as slow as one another
Anything that isn't JavaScript.
>>54890435
>it's just ugly
Funny, every person I know that spends some days at ruby thinks it's the most beautifuil language ever..# server
require 'socket'
server = TCPServer.new 3000 # Server bound to port 3000
loop do
client = server.accept # Wait for a client to connect
client.puts "Hello !"
client.puts "Time is #{Time.now}"
client.close
end
# client
require 'socket'
s = TCPSocket.new 'localhost', 2000
while line = s.gets # Read lines from socket
puts line # and print them
end
s.close # close socket when done
python and ruby.
I've written production code in over a dozen programming languages, yet only PHP was torturous enough to make me quit a job.
Rasmus Lerdorf should be barred from using computers for the rest of his life.
>>54890498
>2 space indentation
>>54890531
>bikeshedding
>>54890498
Now as comparison the server in C
(I'll spare you the client)#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <netdb.h>
#include <netinet/in.h>
#include <string.h>
int main( int argc, char *argv[] ) {
int sockfd, newsockfd, portno, clilen;
char buffer[256];
struct sockaddr_in serv_addr, cli_addr;
int n;
/* First call to socket() function */
sockfd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
if (sockfd < 0) {
perror("ERROR opening socket");
exit(1);
}
/* Initialize socket structure */
bzero((char *) &serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr));
portno = 5001;
serv_addr.sin_family = AF_INET;
serv_addr.sin_addr.s_addr = INADDR_ANY;
serv_addr.sin_port = htons(portno);
/* Now bind the host address using bind() call.*/
if (bind(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *) &serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr)) < 0) {
perror("ERROR on binding");
exit(1);
}
/* Now start listening for the clients, here process will
* go in sleep mode and will wait for the incoming connection
*/
listen(sockfd,5);
clilen = sizeof(cli_addr);
/* Accept actual connection from the client */
newsockfd = accept(sockfd, (struct sockaddr *)&cli_addr, &clilen);
if (newsockfd < 0) {
perror("ERROR on accept");
exit(1);
}
/* If connection is established then start communicating */
bzero(buffer,256);
n = read( newsockfd,buffer,255 );
if (n < 0) {
perror("ERROR reading from socket");
exit(1);
}
printf("Here is the message: %s\n",buffer);
/* Write a response to the client */
n = write(newsockfd,"I got your message",18);
if (n < 0) {
perror("ERROR writing to socket");
exit(1);
}
return 0;
}
Wow, it's so much more readable than Ruby, right?
Any C language. Because I'm too stupid to into that.
POSIX shell scripting. bash extensions have pampered me.
>>54889839
>C and C++ are the very definiton of technical debts.
And they're also pretty much the only languages other than assembly that allow you to write close to the hardware.
>>54890126
>or are at least the most willing to admit to it
As opposed to Java developers, at least we know when our hacks are ugly.
>>54890746
Absolutely.
And that's why they are still here.
But nowadays we got so much optimization, for example the JVM is damn close to C for many cases.
And for many contemporary problems this microoptimization issues don't even matter anymore.
>>54890746
>Close to the hardware
I know this is something huge that C has going for it but why wouldn't someone just write a wrapper for c to make writing drivers easier, excuse my ignorance.
>>54889993
And thanks to the JVM, when they run they use 2 GB of RAM for editing a text file.
>>54890199
>disc memory
Please be trolling.
>>54889421
c++ is a great language, especially the newer versions since c++11, it has done a lot of things right: operator overloading, multiple inheritance, raii etc.
>
>>54890746
>>54890815
>>54890818
>being this ignorant
Fucking plebs. They're nowhere near the only systems languages, and certainly not the only viable ones.
>>54889839
Your argument is only valid if I consider you to be smarter than those people. And I don't. Noone probably does.
>Just because It's mainstream it's bad
>>54890849
I love it when people argue without facts
>>54890815
>JVM is damn close to C for many cases
In terms of CPU time, that is true for some cases, but then you also get a 500 MB Eden space just because you want to allocate a 5-byte array, and a 2-second start-up time for the JVM. Per process.
>>54890849
What would be a good alternative, then? Honestly curious.
>>54890860
The point being that if you think that the memory management debate for C vs. GC'd languages is about disc space, then you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
>>54889656
>he thinks functional is the opposite of object oriented
>>54890815
source code for these chart columns is where?
>>54890899
They're different things. The end.
>>54890852
>Just because It's mainstream it's bad
That wasn't my point.
It's more about historical circumstances.
Like COBOL is still in wide usage for banking, nevertheless it's a bloody bad language.
The problem is that computer industy moves muuuuch slower than the actual available technologies. People favor "stability" and neglect innovations, that's why there's so much bad code out there.
>>54890867
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_programming_language#Major_languages
Admittedly not all the listed languages are 100% suitable, and some suitable ones aren't listed, but you get the idea.
>>54890881
Ada is the king of safe, mature, maintainable, etc systems languages.
>>54890922
>Like COBOL is still in wide usage for banking, nevertheless it's a bloody bad language.
Yes, but C isn't. It may be bad if you consider it wholly from a high-level perspective in a comparison to languages like Java or Lisp that define their own execution semantics, but that's a mistake.
C reflects the underlying hardware, and therefore give you greater control of program execution, in a way that you can, by definition, never get in a high-level language.
>>54889233
All the meme languages /g/ uses to write fizzbuzz programs
>>54890922
your example is completely random and therefor invalid
Start making valid examples in which java is better than c++
Hint: if it's harder to use doesn't mean it's worse
>>54890964
Admittedly, Ada is one of those languages I should check out, but I'm pretty sure it requires fairly extensive runtime support.
>>54890292
>he can't recognize a colloquialism
Autism confirmed
>>54890904
I would have to google it..
It was some guy who did it by himself, but he didn't cheat and was defiantelty capable of programming them correctly.
>>54890868
You can look at it in many diffent ways.
Benchmarks are like statistics, they can be used to show a lot of things...
Yes, the JVM needs startup time, so it's a big difference if you run a process one time or multiple times. But it also uses Ahead-of-time compilation and is generally considered very good, even by people who dislike Java.
>>54890894
I fast-typed some langauges to explain memory leaks. No need to be a salty cunt here.
>>54890994
>fairly extensive runtime support
Or in other words, a standard library. Except actually useful. Ada was literally designed for realtime embedded work, and of course you can customise how much of the standard library you use in such circumstances.
>>54889856
>the microsoft languages
I dont even use it but i pity those who have to deal with this compatibility nightmare
>>54889857
why is java so popular?
>>54890965
This was probably the first clever "pro C" comment in this thread.
>>54889233
Php
anything else im fine with
even brainfuck
>>54889233
PLSQL
Java
Its the biggest clusterfuck mankind ever created
>>54891066
Because safety and reliability.
>>54891066
Because ebin memers on /g/ don't run companies
>>54891203
For a second I thought you said readability.
>>54891053
Well, you've bumped my interest in Ada higher, at least. I already had it on my list, but I'll be checking it out.
>>54889857
Popularity =/= salary
Working your ass off for 5 bucks aint cuttin it, symmetra
>>54891041
>I fast-typed some langauges to explain memory leaks.
No, you spoke about disc space, which has no relevant whatsoever to the discussion.
What C language would I be best off trying to learn?
>>54891203
This; I don't even like Java myself, but I can kind of understand why it is often preferred for large systems.
Faults are fairly well isolated and contained, so that one simple bug has a far lesser chance of bringing the whole system down. While at the same time, it's also pretty efficiently compiled -- say what one will about the comparison to C/C++, it's still orders of magnitude faster than Python or whatever.
>>54891263
Working your ass off for 5 bucks beats writing Haskell monad tutorials >for free
>>54891303
OCaml
>>54891263
But Java salary is higher than C or C++, senpai..
>>54891270
Of course.
C came up at about 1972.
>As the 1980s began, hard disk drives were a rare and very expensive optional feature on personal computers (PCs); however by the late '80s, hard disk drives were standard on all but the cheapest PC.
Do the math.
JavaScript, hate that clusterfuck
>>54891351
Why are you mentioning hard drives at all? It has nothing to do with programming languages.
>>54891417
Oh well Mr. double smart, that's how they explained the beginnings of pointers at university.
I'm not a centified C historian, so..
Anyhow, C pointers are terrifying and ugly, that's the point. I've done about 10 C projects in my life and I utterly hate pointers.
>>54890965
Sure, but the underlying hardware is not without its faults. C reflects the Von Neumann computer, which is how most all of our computers work and is therefore at the mercy of the memory bottleneck. Non imperative languages like Lisp open up the possibility of running on architectures that don't suffer from the Von Neumann Bottleneck. John Backus wrote a paper on this.
>>54891490
Lol get good
>ctrl + f
>no MATLAB
How?
>>54889233
Java. Holy fucking shit everything about Java is retarded to the point it's rage-inducing
>>54890398
So, Perl is not ugly.
Checkmate haters
>>54891510
That's not the point, I can write pointers and make them do what I want them to do.
But it takes time and is terribly annoying.
You start solving problems, that are not within your actual scope ("I want a programm that does this and that..") but rather you spend most of your time struggling with the quirks of a language.
Java.
I'm an oracle developer and APEX with PLSQL make Java/adf look like shit
>>54889233
None really. I have worked with like 20 languages, even obscure shit like VRML, they all are shit.
>>54891490
>Pointers are variables that hold memory addresses
Wow I still dont understand, they are so terrifying
>>54891569
Actually that is the point bud. You get good, then you don't "struggle with the quirks of the language" because you know the language, so you make your program and it does what you want. You only have to learn something once.
>>54891615
This
>>54889995
Name one kernel project that's not made in C.
>>54891569
I think you still dont understand the "Whats the right tool for this current project of mine?" question
>>54891643
RedoxOS
>>54891569
What's your fucking problem? You can only do this much with a pointer: store an address in it, dereference it, do usual integer arithmetic with it and cast it. Pointers to different types only differ in how many bytes the address shifts during the incrementing(most of the fucking time you don't even need to know there's a difference). THAT'S IT.
>>54891615
Yeah, so funny..
Now put that into action within a large scale project with mutidimensional pointers, pointer arithmetics, function pointers.. and so on. You can have lots of fun here.
>>54891618
You know, it's just a matter of "return on invest".
Of course you can get good at brainfuck or write software with assembly.. but WHY should you?
>>54891618
I fear the day I don't struggle with non-trivial c++ template metaprogramming for what I have become.
>>54891643
>>54891681
> #rekt
>>54891739
Who are you quoting?
>>54891690
>mutidimensional pointers
Literally pointers to pointers: dereferencing gives you another pointer.
>arithmetic
Imagine traversing an array. If you can't understand arrays you're literally retarded.
>function pointers
Don't treat them as usual pointers. Everything except taking the function's address might as well be undefined behavior(it's not, but so error prone that it might as well be).
>>54891690
I'm not going to forget that you thought pointers had something to do with "disc" space
I'm learning C#. It is my first time programming, and it seems really enjoyable. I find myself looking forward to it.
>>54891825
Well, you can map files to RAM...
Obviously not what he meant.
>>54891883
Yes, you and I do understand memory hierarchy, because we kept going to class instead of being scared by pointers.
>>54891303
C99
>>54891690
>>54891064
just use the latest version, you aren't writing legacy software and even if you are, there is one version you use, not 15
>>54891807
Feels redundant desu. Then again, so does Java to a certain extent
>>54892198
I dont even use them directly, i just click next when installing stuff, and every program or game comes bundled with its own preferred version, while it probably would work with any, the devs just go with the "Works on my machine! TM" configuration
The simple fact that a programming language needs up to 10 digits to identify its sub-sub-sub-version is a huge turnoff. With Python there is basically 2.7 (works with everything), 3 (the old libraries are finally ported and there are 1-2 new features that i like) and everything else is for the 0.0001% of really old complex libraries that nobody cares enough to port, including you
>>54889421
>>54892354
does it bother you that different entities have different operating practices?
>>54892380
garbage collected
>>54892338
Pointers are as minimal as it gets - try imaging something more simple(IT IS A FUCKING NUMBER) with as much power.
>>54892338
java just hides the fact from you, although there is literally a NullPointerException.
>>54889421
Browsers are written in C++
C# for Windows Mobile. It's like playing with toys, not programming.
Other than that -> JS, especially Backbone + Node.js or alike. I know there are many advantages, but synchronizing asynchronous tasks is just damn weird.
>>54889233
abab
If you have to use pointers, your language is obsolete and not needed
>>54892566
Every "pass-by-reference" language then.
>>54892566
Pointers are going to save the world one day. I love every single thing about them. If one is too narrow minded to understand their advantages (probably also thinks that any low level programming language is pointless) one should not be a programmist.
>>54892666
They just don't get the point, Satan. However I disagree - virtually all software depends on them already but it's not a good thing - cache locality suffers and non number crunching programs spend like 1/3 of their runtime on dereferencing stuff. It's even worse when the language doesn't give you control over them.
>>54889233
PHP/MySQL, literally worse than Hitler.
>>54892735
>(type & param)
>>54892566
>I have no idea how computers work and why pointers are needed
Machine code. Everything else is a matter of time...
>>54891499
John Backus's paper has been thoroughly discredited by the same researchers who fell for the meme the first time around. It's disgusting how they keep aping his paper 40 years later without even mentioning that these machines were actually built and didn't work as well as they hoped. If it was another industry, people would be sued or behind bars.
>>54889233
Tcl/Tk
PHP
Java. And of course anything that's related to java. Like Clojure.
And even though they're not languages but implementations and the like:
ABCL, JRuby, Jython.
In sum any effort from any language to aim for the java guys
>>54889233
F# for sure
>>54889298 knows what's up
fuck F#
>>54892735
>>54892566
a lecture from UNSW, he explained it really well imo
https://youtu.be/Rxvv9krECNw
>>54892511
Explains why all browsers are garbage
>>54891490
>Oh well Mr. double smart, that's how they explained the beginnings of pointers at university.
And that totally inaccurate description is literally all you know about pointers? Why does this not surprise me.
>>54891512
Because noone uses it, quite simply. Thank God, but nonetheless, no need to mention it.
>>54891490
> that's how they explained the beginnings of pointers at university.
Seems you went to a shit uni
>>54889233
>php
>python
>Visual Basic
>java
>>54889421
>I'm a retarded who never gonna work developing sofisticated firmware
thats what i read.
>>54890199
>C comes form a time when people thought it was cool to manage your own memory.
> don't know what a microcontroller is and why pointers are extremely useful there.
fixed
>>54889979
I'd like to see you program a microcontroller with shit like javascript.
Please go ahead i'll wait.
>>54889996
agreed.
>>54892735
You do realize that you don't need to use more levels of pointers than necessary?
>>54889233
none. im not some crybaby dev. i use whatever i need to accomplish my goals.
>>54890199
falling for the 16gb ram meme so hard that you think memory leaks are chill.
Holly kek batman
>>54890199
this kind of shit only matters for the lowly code monkey.
>>54894788
Nobody uses more levels than necessary, m8, this would just make syntax more ugly .
I love languages that anyone who doesn't even know how to program could look at the code and at least somewhat decipher what's going on:
C (C++ to a lesser extent), Java, etc
I hate languages where even I, as a programmer, cannot understand what the fucks going on without reading a technical manual on the language (not saying you can't write clean code from these languages, but most scripts I see are write only),:
Python, Bash, most scripting languages.
>>54891137
I haven't had to touch php before. Why do you hate it? From what i've seen it doesn't look bad.
>>54894866
I think what you're seeing is mostly a reflection of the fact that C/C++/Java are mostly used for larger projects, where more formalism is necessary to keep everything in check; whereas Python/shell scripting are more often used for tiny ten-liners, where there's no point to that formalism.
>>54894897
yea this is probably it my man
>>54894879
>I can’t even say what’s wrong with PHP, because— okay. Imagine you have uh, a toolbox. A set of tools. Looks okay, standard stuff in there.
>You pull out a screwdriver, and you see it’s one of those weird tri-headed things. Okay, well, that’s not very useful to you, but you guess it comes in handy sometimes.
?You pull out the hammer, but to your dismay, it has the claw part on both sides. Still serviceable though, I mean, you can hit nails with the middle of the head holding it sideways.
>You pull out the pliers, but they don’t have those serrated surfaces; it’s flat and smooth. That’s less useful, but it still turns bolts well enough, so whatever.
>And on you go. Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there’s no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools.
>Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you “well hey what’s the problem with these tools? They’re all I’ve ever used and they work fine!” And the carpenters show you the houses they’ve built, where every room is a pentagon and the roof is upside-down. And you knock on the front door and it just collapses inwards and they all yell at you for breaking their door.
>That’s what’s wrong with PHP.
I'd like to post the link, but 4chan insists that it is spam.
>>54889421
How are you gonna use computers then retard ?
You think Windows is written in c# ?
>>54889233
PHP and Java
>>54891512
MATLAB is completely pointless with Python around.
>>54894897
I really hate when languages stick with legacy terminology. The biggest offenders are probably clisp, bash and c's standard library - they all have very sound ideas but all those cats, nices, caddrs and mbstowcs make me fucking vomit.
>>54895037
Even CL has FIRST and TAIL instead of CAR and CDR, and other than that there's really very little legacy terminology in it. As for Bash and libc, I don't even know what you're talking about.
>>54889555
Source on that pic, please.
>>54889421
WHATAFUK ARE YOU LITERALLY RETARDED?? I bet you have never ever programmed anything significant in your short stupid life
>>54889421
>there are basically no Jobs out there outside of Kernel develloper, GameDev or technical systems.
Oh, so all the ones that pay well and matter?
>>54889233
IDL, NCL
fuck them
C
>>54890126
Tip top cuck
>>54895037
Every word is 'legacy terminology', the meanings simply change.
You type onto a metal/plastic box not a 'computer', a person who thinks. Nor do you type on a board of keys. Pedantry.
There is currently a job at Tesla Motors
>Business Analyst
that requires two things.
>Excel Proficiency
>Visual Basic
>>54889233
Anything not based on C
>>54898353
excel macros are ezpz but then again i took basic and visual basic in highschool forever ago so it just seems like babbys first coding
java, ruby, haskell, C#
>>54898729
>>54898729
come work at Tesla Motors then boss, get those 12 hours of work for $30/hr in
>>54889233
Java
>Verbose as fuck
>MOAR RAM
>BeanFactory maymays
>Pajeets
>>54890126
>>54890398
Well, you don't need hacks when the compiler/VM does all the job for you, leaking 1GB of memory and using 100% CPU :^)
>>54894769
Lol exactly
>>54895024
Except matlab's toolboxes scientific and.engineering design far outrank python's scikit shit. Scikit can't even do a fucking LDA right. Numpy is great and scipy is alright I guess.
>>54891499
>Sure, but the underlying hardware is not without its faults
I never said that, but it's nevertheless what the hardware is. C just exposes it to you, whereas higher-level languages tries to hide it, eschewing you of several layers of precise control at the same time. You can't blame C for any imperfections that the hardware may or may not have.
>and is therefore at the mercy of the memory bottleneck
The von Neumann memory bottleneck is a wholly different bottleneck than what modern processors suffer from.
>Non imperative languages like Lisp open up the possibility of running on [other] architectures
Certainly, but for those machines there would also be a language closer to the machine, akin to but different from C, that would allow you greater control than LISP.
>>54891499
>Non imperative languages like Lisp
Wait a minute.
If you had taken Prolog or Haskell as an example, you'd be fine. Lisp is an imperative language.
>>54899572
Who is this wiener witch?
A friend of mine wants to know.
>>54899572
Shit taste in keyboards. Would not type with.
As someone going into back end web development, are there really any good alternatives to php and mysql?
>>54900102
Python/Go + PostgreSQL
>>54889233
All of them.
>>54890199
What's the practical use of pointers?
Why would you need to refer to the address of a variable instead of its name, that you'd likely remember.
>inb4 he doesn't get pointers
I don't desu
>>54896128
It's from a manga called Koe No Kitachi, I believe. It's a great read. The words have been edited though.
BASIC
>>54900448
>>54900102
Node + MongoDB
>>54900456
It should be said, at least, that he said that at a time when BASIC was still based on line-numbers and GOTOs.
>>54900102
Ruby + rails + postgres/mysql for that startup money
Node + mongo (MEAN stack) would be another option
PHP for me right now... I'm working in a codebase written a decade ago by a bunch of amateur russian programmers. Calling it a clusterfuck is putting it nicely.
>>54900456
>quoteitispracticallyimpossibletoteachgoodprogrammingtostudentsthathavehadapriorexposureedsgerdijkstra224504.jpg
what the actual fuck is this filename
Basically I avoid all the languages except ones that might seem relevant. C for working with embedded systems and bash for automation and sometimes python if i can't get bash to do it.
>>54900484
I learned to program in BASIC & LOGO when I was 7 years old. I was mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration long before I made my first colored circle swivel like a spinning coin.
PHP and Visual Basic.
>tfw NEET because most local jobs are PHP
>>54889421
>>54900312
Mutation
Php
C#
Only shit programmers dislike languages.
>>54900312
>Why would you need to refer to the address of a variable instead of its name, that you'd likely remember.
For dynamically allocated objects?
>>54890398
You raise an interesting point. I would like to see a proper comparison that takes in account popularity of the language and the actual amount of code for each language on GitHub.
>>54889421
Well I think you are a moron except for your point about jobs.
I'm looking for work and pretty much everywhere I look its node.js and javascript.
Also the thing with writing software using C and C++ is there aren't enough good, permissively licensed libraries to do all the shit you want. A lot of the good stuff is locked under a disgusting GPL license, which projects that use currently popular languages (like JavaScript) rarely ever have.
There really aren't that many jobs for C and C++ compared to web stuff these days. Even for back end people use Python, Rails, etc. I would trade my experience in C++ for experience in a web stack in a flash.
Web devs get paid nearly as much (or more if you can negotiate well) and:
* Can completely turn their brains off when programming so there's zero stress
* Have every library available at their fingertips, no licensing bullshit
* Every problem is generally solved, just import whatever library you need
Not to mention, web environments work every where and there's zero responsibility on you. Web Browsers are on every device.
People say C++ is portable and to them I say try writing a media rich application and making it portable across multiple platforms (Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android to start) and then tell me that C++ is 'portable'
>>54901930
Also I really really fucking hate C and C++'s build systems and library bullshit:
>headers
>source files
>TUs
>linking
>CMake, VS soln, make, autotools
Literally FUCKk that stupid garbage. I'm sure C++ will get modules, maybe when I'm in my 60s
FUCK
> Op
I used to avoid rust, but decided to try it after seeing how hard people here were trying to put it down. I'm very glad I did and use it whenever I can.
Their community is irredeemably retarded though.
>>54902025
>Squirtle squirtle
Fucking kek
>>54889644
>>54894739
>>54898353
>>54898729
>>54900648
VB is basically three languages though:
>Visual Basic.NET
>Visual Basic
>Visual Basic for Applications
The first is ok, it's just a retarded syntax for writing C#. The second is shit. The third is an unspeakable horror.
>>54902010
>maybe when I'm in my 60s
You never know. C++ got lambdas long before Java. No one saw that coming.
>>54889857
how come universities teach c?
>>54890159
how do you stop being a codemonkey?
>>54891351
>Perl and Java are capitalised
whoever made this graph doesn't know the first thing about programming languages
>>54889233
ABAP
>>54889331
`import java.x.*`
>Everyone bitching about Go, Java, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby, Python, and M$ langs.
>Neverminding the autistic argument involving C.
So clearly by volume, those are the worst languages. Which then leaves Perl and Rust.
FORTRAN.
I work at an observatory. You have not experienced the rock-bottom of programming until you've spent a month debugging a meteorological data analysis script written in 12,000 lines of FORTRAN and 0 lines of documentation 20 years ago by a physicist who died 10 years ago and there are literally no human beings left alive with the PhDs to figure out what the fuck it does.
There is a small amount of FORTRAN still being used today and it is 100% verifiable evil. If you see FORTRAN, tell someone. Call the cops. Call the Navy. Call an old priest and a young priest.
>>54902533
Are there major differences between them?
>>54900312
For example:
If you allocate memory on heap you can only work with that by using the memory address of it.
Using pointers also prevents copying, which is useful when working with large datas.
>>54889233
Bash
