Are we living in a virtual reality?
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/2/11837608/elon-musk-simulation-argument
>Elon Musk's argument
Is there a soul? Is the world round?
Eventually we'll have to give up some myths. Although chances (a very good chance) are, we might be living in a simulation, we can't know for sure.
i doubt it because most of us are boring as shit desu
We're all part of Elon Musk's trip home from the dentist.
>>54875727
>>54875771
Some of us have to do the boring labor.
>>54875727
Everything is virtual my friend.
We are seeing it from the sensory and mentalspace (highly human and retarded). It's like the Matrix, the initial question is: are we plugged into a system?
Yes. Simply put the nervous system, reliant on many other small biological systems, are not exclusively existing.
>>54875727
I always thought that this universe started as small thing and became big. It must have started somewhere, that's where it gets crazy. Initial settings caused this universe to be what it is now. It could be random occurrence or controlled simulation.
>>54875755
>>Elon Musk's argument
This. I'm tired of everyone thinking Elon Musk is anything other than a fucking business.
My dad thinks he's an ultra genius and the other said '100 times better than Steve Jobs'. I just sigh.
>>54875727
Why would anything elon musk have to say about the universe have merit? He's just a dude that made cars and is now throwing money at rockets. He's not even a rocket scientist he's the boss that pays those people.
He's the equivalent to your shitty uninformed boss at your job and you want to suck his cock and swallow every dribble of stupidity that comes out, well go ahead.
>>54876047
>>54876005
Because he's surrounded with the best and brightest people, if not, I'm sure he could reach out to them regarding this.
Even then, can you refute his argument?
>>54876187
>Even then, can you refute his argument?
1. "his" argument is over 2500 years old (see link below)
2. it's an unfalsifiable claim combined with the weasel phrase "one in billions chance"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
what about this old argument
1. if it's possible
2. it would be logical that it could be done many times
3. therefore there is a higher probability to exist in a simulated world as there would be many of them
>tfw NPC
>>54876285
>>54876187
>muh brain in a vat
It's just radical skepticism; quite old and functionally worthless.
>>54875727
>Elon Musk
This is an old argument. Elon Musk did not come up with it.
And even if he did come up with it, why would I care? He is not a philosopher. He is not a physicist. He is a businessman, and that is all he is. He is not an authority on anything except running a tech company. I don't give a shit about his speculation about the nature of the universe any more than I give a shit about Nicki Minaj's position on the Israel/Palestine conflict.
>>54876339
Not from your point of view you baka ass nigger.
>>54876285
Popper said falsifiabilty is what distinguishes science from pseudo-science. He didn't believe unfalsifiable claims are necessarily meaningless (he believed metaphysics can be meaningful, for example). A better argument against the VR hypothesis would be Putnam's paper: http://ieas.unideb.hu/admin/file_2908.pdf
>>54876389
Hello adventurer! I'm sorry but I do not understand what you just said, you need to speak in a specific manner. However I have a quest for you fellow adventurer, I'd get food for myself but a terrible tragedy has befallen me, can you please help me?
>>54876455
[ ] Yes
[x] No
>>54876504
My man!
Looking good!
Slow down!
If we do, does it matter? If we do, we've been designed to be unable to infliuence or escape the simulation we live in anyways. All you can do is pray that one of the guys running it favors you and transfers your consciousness to his mode of existence at the cost of you living here, or that some rogue sysadmin, a "master of daemons", exploits a bug to give you a feature you weren't intended to have, and doesn't decide to mv your files to /dev/hell0p1.
Huh, sounds familiar
>>54876364
lol buttblasted academic detected
>>54876579
>tfw buddha@universe sneaks you out of the recycle bin, deletes your configs, and renames you so root doesn't notice
But is it possible to simulate something as complex as the universe? wouldn't that require infinite energy? Or maybe the universe as we know is just a simpler simulation of a more complex universe?
Wew I just hope they shut us down because something went really wrong with humanity...
> tfw they are simulating us to figure out if they're also being simulated
> tfw they contact us, telling we're a simulation and they are shutting us down
wew
>>54876670
>things only exist when observed
>the more humans there are to observe more things, the more resources the system needs
>yfw there's a hard limit that destroys humanity when hit
>>54876686
>people only exist when you view them
>you also are ''people''
>you don't exist if you aren't being viewed
retarded paradoxes provided by anonymous NPCs
>>54875727
>who is Nick Bostrom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
Why do people suck so hard on Musk's dick? Do they want some of that African jizz?
>>54876047
You should try to learn at least one thing about a subject before making hostile and condescending comments on it.
>>54876686
>things only exist when observed
wrong, superposition particles still exists (as waves), they just collapse when interacting with something else (not necessarily being observed)
Stop watching pop-sci videos about quantum mechanics, lad.
>>54876670
>wouldn't that require infinite energy?
This simulation is supposedly being done in another universe. There is no guarantee that our laws of physics would apply there. It is possible that the laws of thermodynamics only hold in our "fake" universe, not in "reality."
>>54876742
But he's right. Musk is a suit, but people are acting like he is some omni-expert. He opines about things he knows nothing about and people hang on his every word.
>>54876745
you fucking retard there is a context here
>>54876796
kys
>>54876812
I'll just point out that kys is associated with the following of a strange man who even speaks as if puberty skipped him, the following largely consists of little children
The universe has a set resolution (Planck length) and a maximum rate of data propagation (speed of light).
Given these values we can determine the universe, if a simulation, has a tick rate of 1.855×10e43 Hz.
musk just wants people to focus on the advancements of tech and what it means for the future and for this reason i can't disagree
>>54876745
What the fuck does that have to do with anything? He's talking about subjective idealism you cuck
>>54876860
he's a smart person who shows his smartness to strangers at the most appropriate moments
>If you assume any rate of improvement at all, then the games will become indistinguishable from reality
This assumes that:
There isn't diminishing returns (we can clearly see that there is, 100-200 polygons is a way bigger difference than 1000-2000 polygons.
That progress will continue indefinitely with no setbacks such as a dark age.
That is is possible to simulate a universe at more than 100% efficiency. >>54876761 Is true, but then the first part where he talk about out universe is also irrelevant.
But ultimately it's pointless. It's an unfalsifiable and unproovable claim. It's also irrellevant in every way. It's the same as saying there is undetectable devils playing flutes in everyones buttholes.
>>54876686
>things only exist when observed
The wavefunction always exists and observation only makes it collapse to a definite value. Observation changes things; it does not create them.
>the more humans there are to observe more things
"Observation" does not refer to being seen by people. "Observation" would more properly be called "interaction." There is no consciousness required.
>>54876880
>there is undetectable devils playing flutes in everyones buttholes
kinky
>>54876898
see
>>54876860
stop posting
>it's a /g/ormless twits discuss physics episode
Lets say the energy required to create an object is much smaller than an energy required to simulate an object.
A desktop could for example, simulate a desktop inside at a fraction of the cost. It could simulate the world in a degree. And some shitty npc like the ones in Sims.
Now imagine a computer the sized of a planet. They would be able to simulate the planet itself and its inhabitants/etc. The scaling would then further out into the whole universe too.
ALTERNATIVELY, you could simulate only certain parts of the world/universe at a time to reduce energy consumption/requirements. For example, half the world is simulated at anytime and other half is sleep mode. If you go along the same path of optimization, the simulations optimization could simply pull static values rather than computerate values (i.e pre-rendered vs real time rendered). Etc..
>>54876835
>The universe has a set resolution (Planck length)
It does not. The Planck length has no proven significance. Any claims that the universe is quantized are still speculation at this point.
There is SO much pseudoscience ITT it's disgusting. I haven't seen this much quantum BS outside of Deepak Chopra's site.
>>54876724
you are watching yourself retard
>People talking shit about Elon musk.
>Steve jobs a tech god.
I fucking hate people.
>>54876928
It isn't a scientific question; it's a philosophical question. And it's pointless anyways
>>54876930
implying consciousness can't emerge from a simulation
>>54876860
Then he should learn to write. The obvious interpretation of that post was quantum BS. If two people independently misinterpreted his post, that shows the post is unclear.
>>54876364
Your post reaks of jude
>>54876005
>'100 times better than Steve Jobs'.
He's right though.
>>54876932
Its actually a semi-serious speculation thats been modernized recently within the last decade or so.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847
There are some physicists that did alternative takes on this hypothesis based on current understanding on high energy particles.
Its not Elon "steve jobs" Musk's theory, he's just a tech "god" to normies.
>>54876960
>The obvious interpretation of that post was quantum BS
No that wasn't the obvious interpretation. You're just illiterate
>two people
lol
>>54876670
Imagine it being simulated at a lot slower rate than the actual universe, the inhabitants of the simulated universe would have no way to know right?
>>54876928
While I agree that the Planck Length is mostly speculation, I disagree that it is pseudoscience.
>>54876955
how so?
define "consciousness"
>>54876812
Write it like an adult does. Kill yourself.
>>54876932
No one ITT is claiming Steve Jobs is a tech god. Steve Jobs and Elon Musk are both suits. The difference is that Jobs knew he was a suit while Musk thinks he's a scientist.
>>54875771
>he wasn't a silicon lottery winner
kek
>>54876997
>No that wasn't the obvious interpretation. You're just illiterate
Yeah, whatever. When you write something, any misunderstandings are YOUR fault. It's your job to communicate clearly. It's not my job to reverse-engineer your thought process.
And my interpretation was not crazy, as evidenced by the fact that someone else reached exactly the same conclusion I did.
>>54877006
It's unfalsifiable speculation being set forth as proven fact. Even if you don't think it's pseudoscience, it's still definitely shit science.
>>54877019
Musk has degrees in Physics was working towards Applied Science before going with Paypal startup.
Steve Jobs took calligraphy class and dropped out of college.
>>54877008
I see consciousness at least emerging from the brain, the brain is a complex machine and I see no reason why it couldn't be simulated if a powerful enough computer existed
I'm not going to argue any more though, this is the kind of philosophy shit that belongs to high school
>>54877062
He did communicate clearly. Anyone with even a rudimentary education in philosophy understood what he was saying. Nowhere in his post did he say anything about quantum mechanics or superposition. It's not his responsibility to cater to fucking tryhard morons like yourself
>>54877065
So you don't believe in free will?
We live inside anime, and what we think is anime is actually the real world.
>>54875771
Welcome to being an npc
>>54877140
Free Will is a myth created by Judeo-Christian religion.
Ask a Buddhist if they believe in it, they'll be confused because the term Free Will is a loaded one that comes with Judeo-Christian assumptions.
The ability to change our thoughts/actions can be done on a small scale level. But on a macro scale, it will have to be over long periods of time with a strong active awareness at your disposal.
>I believe in Free Will, therefore I can fly.
>>54876960
because of the context I thought (and I think most) that it was about how in many cases, a lot of stuff that's off screen is not being rendered or calculated in the same manner as it would on screen in order to be more efficient, this is also /g/ so it would make sense it was about technology
>>54877140
Not that guy, but if the universe is deterministic free will is impossible.
>>54877140
no but I can't say for certain
I imagine two identical universes remaining identical after any period of time
>>54877216
QM states aren't deterministic. The world runs on QM. There are statistical models that can be predictive, but is still a probabilistic universe.
inb4 hidden variable, aka debunked many times over
I'm actually a PhD molecular dynamics simulationist. AMA.
>>54877140
not him
We cant know for sure.
>>54877247
So what are you doing exactly? Protein folding? What is the largest simulation you've done so far? (How long, how many particles etc)
>>54877192
>The ability to change our thoughts/actions can be done on a small scale level. But on a macro scale, it will have to be over long periods of time with a strong active awareness at your disposal.
Imagine a car that's travelling in a straight line at 300 mph on a trillion mile road in all direction without stops. The steering wheel only steers 1 degree at a time. You can't do 90* turn suddenly. However if you keep keep turning 1 degree, eventually you'll turn enough to the right. That "eventually" however is a long period of time.
>>54875727
Assuming we are in a simulation, the only way we would be able to definitively prove it is if they (Whoever is running the simulation) were to tell us. Like put some giant comic-sans text in the sky that says "You are in a simulation".
>>54877233
This is a good book on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0385235690/?tag=stackoverfl08-20
There are some schools of thought regarding the possible determinism of quantum mechanics which get pretty weird.
>>54877250
imagine there are two universes. Both have same physical laws and are literally identical. Both start at same time. First life appears and it starts to evolve. Does it evolve into humans? Or subtle decisions make by living organisms evolve into something else?
>>54877284
Protein transition states and rational drug design (although I have other unfunded pet projects)
Protein folding? Not de novo. I do some ligand binding so you can think of it as induced fit/allosteric folding. If you're interested in de novo folding, look up Jens Meiler at Vanderbilt
Largest simulation system: 750,000 particles (protein embedded in lipid bilayer and explicitly solvated)...length: 1 microsecond total free MD simulation time (triplicate ~350ns runs)
I've been getting into advanced sampling and collective variables based approaches more recently, if you're interested let me know
>>54877173
>>54875727
How do I mod the simulation guys I want to give myself infinite money and bacon
>>54877407
recognize the patterns and exploit them
>>54875727
Even if we were, what would it matter? It's not like we can escape this simulation anyway.
>>54875727
If we're in a simulation, why did the programmers create niggers?
Checkmate.
>>54877453
theyre just bugs m8
>>54877366
I've always been interested in this sort of stuff, or let's say ever since I did a computational physics course that just very briefly covered molecular dynamics. I think it's just amazing stuff. What have you studied? Do you have any interesting images regarding the simulations (graphs, pictures, anything)?
>>54877440
>Even if we did live in the a round world, what would it matter? It's not like we can sail away to the other side of the world.
-t european before exploration age
>>54877440
>Even if the physics operated on this "quantum mechanics", what would it matter? Its not like we have any use for it.
Pre computer age
>>54877484
No, literally, the whole point of the argument is that even if we were living in a simulation, there's simply nothing to do about it. In fact, we couldn't even gather any evidence of it as every trace of a simulation would appear to us as part of the mechanics of this world (or physics).
>>54877216
Not if you believe in dualism, or compatibilism.
>>54877468
I'd prefer not to share my stuff on 4chan, since it's cataloged and can be easily attributed to me by people familiar with my work. I have 8 scientific publications using MD, primarily on two different proteins.
My formal training is in molecular biology, side training in structural biology, self-taught in computer science as a hobby.
Being a molecular biologist affords me a lot of insight into the dynamics and evolutionary history of protein function but programming skills are my rate-limiter, especially simulation analysis. But eventually you build a repertoire of analysis scripts that can be repurposed for future applications for novel proteins/collaborations so it becomes less of a problem.
As part of my MD sim work I also do QM/MM modeling, which is a world unto itself. Very few biologists (even structural biologists) give two thoughts about quantum mechanics, whereas it defines a lot of my work (via forcefield paramaterization). This is cool because you are at the intersection of physics and biology but also makes it a very difficult collaborative space because both sides are completely unfamiliar with each other.
Only if you're a flaming homosexual like Musk you're likely to have such delusions.
>>54877504
Microchips, radios, microwaves were not in the minds of people before the discovery of quantum mechanics.
The problem is, people don't have working ideas until it becomes accepted. Then all sorts of applications and ticks can be explored.
If no one's interested in this hypothesis, and its true(for example), then nothing will happen. Similarly, if QM was accepted as true, but people didn't learn QM or try to understand QM or explored QM, then there woudln't be any technology or knowledge from it.
If people gave some time, you can poke around many ways on hypothesis. 99% might be shit but that 1% is the one that could help out. Those 99% false things are infact more useful than the 1% because it allows us to devote time to the correct things.
>>54877468
actually, I'll build a system real quick and render it
>>54877611
I understand. I really thought about going into the field, but I eventually went with (astro) particle physics. I actually made a few frustrating experiences with biologists' physics knowledge (I was a tutor for a physics course for biologists, chemists and some more obscure stuff) and I can tell you are of a rare kind. Thanks for sharing anyway.
>>54876005
same, so fucking bored of this guy riding the retards need to have a genius and a savior 24/7
>>54877636
The problem is, you'll always be missing that one last piece of evidence. And you won't find it because it is literally not in this world. It's a stupid idea that leads absolutely nowhere.
>>54877468
>>54877611
>>54877672
>>54877709
so here's a very basic system I just built so you can see what a biological simulation system might look like
this is just a POPC bilayer solvated with water with 40A padding on the z-axis
if we wanted to look at a protein in the cell membrane, we would literally just insert it in there, remove overlapping lipids and then do some simulated annealing (heating) to melt the lipids around the protein prior to simulation
>>54877749
If the problem of missing piece was a limit, then there would be no progress in any human sciences.
>>54877777
Checked.
>>54875727
>it's a "/g/tards discussing philosophy and trying to look smart while doing it" episode
>>54877777
How is that supposed to make sense? Of everything we ever discovered or whatever we had concrete information that actually exists, that is in some way, no matter how hard, attainable.
Your argument here basically is "Oh, I don't now, but maybe some day something comes up? I don't know!", which is shit.
>>54877774
That is amazing, thanks, I love images like that.
>>54877825
Everything we discovered were things that were missing from our knowledge. They were the "missing piece" that you're referring to. Because we searched for the missing pieces, we found them. We have no knowledge of whether the missing pieces existed or not. We had hypothesis and models to predict if they exist or not. Sometimes they don't and sometimes they do. However those models are not knowledge but rather predictions.
>elon musk trying to become the new steve jobs
>tfw humans are actually immortal beings and this simulation is just a futuristic education system
>we will be thrown into it over and over until we pass the tests
>>54875727
>tfw you look too closely at particles of matter and notice they are actually arranged on a grid
well fuck
Wouldn't a society that is advanced enough to simulate a probabilistic universe have moral laws that prohibit doing it?
This would indicate two possibilities:
1. We are in a simulation being performed by a rogue faction for good or evil intents
2. Our simulators have themselves concluded that they are in a simulation and thus if their superior creators believe it is OK to simulate life, then they are OK to do it as well
>>54878256
wut
>>54878273
>Assuming other societies in separate universes are structured like our own
kay why ess
>>54878300
>assuming they're not
absolute morality muh nigga
or are you implying that if we altered the laws of physics slightly are concept of morality would change?
>>54875727
How do you explain emotons, feelings and creativity. How do you explain music, desire and taste?
There is no algorithm to quantify and implement the above human traits.
>>54878330
>absolute morality
Do you evn cultural relativism
>>54878403
physics seems to be doing a pretty good job at it
the brain is just neurochemical reactions controlled by atomic positioning controlled by quantum physics
>>54875727
People have used this theory because it fills holes in the disconnection between different observed phenomena (namely relativity and quantum physics). It's those same gaps that "spiritual" people use to justify god. It's a convenient short cut - an ever decreasing circle within which, beliefs exist.
HOWEVER - that doesn't stop us understanding that our consciousness is digital. Reality is data and consciousness is information derived from that data. But is that reality virtual? Is it rendered for us? No.
>>54878441
random matrix theory
Random reply.
Do you guys think, if given the technology advancement, we would run our own human simulations? Especially with neural networks becoming so advanced, we could employ one for each new thing created.
>>54878548
Random kys.
>>54878628
Yes.
Hell, we have random people that would do it for fun. Civalization 7: The Real Experience.
>>54878630
What disturbs you about this? >>54878441
>>54878630
I'll just point out that kys is associated with the following of a strange youtuber who even sounds as if puberty skipped him
>>54878655
Nothing. Why do you think I am disturbed by that? :v
>>54878679
Who? :3
>>54878683
Attacking without making any counterpoints. Sounds like denial to me.
>>54878695
a strange youtuber who even sounds as if puberty skipped, his following even consists mostly of children
>>54878710
Ad hominem. Your argument is invalid.
>>54878734
no there is no argument and pointing out ad hominem is a meme at this point
>>54878761
So, tell me why I'm wrong. Otherwise, you have no argument. Or are you one of those people who sticks their fingers in their ears and shouts insults when someone uses tricky stuff like - logic?
>>54878710
Do you mean pewds? I stopped following him like, years ago.
I'm only the kind of fag that follows Markiplier, jacksepticeye and Game Grumps.
>>54878794
wrong about what?
>>54878830
I never replied to that
>>54876005
>'100 times better than Steve Jobs'.
He is right, not in the way you are thinking.
If anything, I'd say he is a master in business, finding and gathering talent into one room, and logistics. The guy is getting SpaceX it's ISS and NASA contracts, Tesla it's new mainstream model (which is projected to net 3ish Billion in revenue when fulfilled), and on top of all of this, he is moving into another business to do hyperloops. The guy is a genius of making large businesses appear out of nowhere.
Pic related, cause nothing else fits.
>>54878843
Sorry. Wrong anon.
>>54878548
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uKJ1CpGyP8
just cuz u can’t comrepehdnable the situational understand in to they of those that spoked to the point in understandable them and then comprehend what their said to them and until then dont spoke
>>54878196
you wish, when u die, you die, faggot
>>54879129
told
>>54876364
I'm not surprised at all that this far down into the post people keep posting without even doing a google search of "simulation hypothesis". Elon musk never said he came up with it lmao.
>>54876364
He's the most prominent futurist in modern society
in order to be a good futurist you need to be able to conceptualize what is possible even if it doesn't currently exist
if he believes that probabilistic quantum computing can eventually recreate the laws of quantum physics in silico, then I would trust his authority
>>54877777
You're fucking retarded. Complex things we don't understand != impossible. It's like trying to move to the 4th dimension.
>>54876670
>a@universe sneaks you
no, there is nothing that could simulate ur stupidity
>>54875980
Life is but a dream. Perhaps rem sleep is the true reality and lucid dreaming/trance meditation gives us more tangible access.
>>54876005
So because he's smart and a master of science this means he can't be a businessman as well ?
>>54876047
He's a physicist.
>>54876790
Apart from he is a self taught rocket scientist
>>54876579
Death is the escape. So look forward to it idiot.
>>54876005
>My dad thinks he's an ultra genius and the other said '100 times better than Steve Jobs'. I just sigh.
>and the other said '100 times better than Steve Jobs'. I just sigh.
>and the other said
>the other
you have 2 dads?
>>54876735
Try dreaming instead of pandering to your base instincts i.e. Jealousy.
>>54877233
>aka debunked many times over
How? I get we can´t know everything and so it may seem like it truly is probabilistic but why completely exclude the possibility of hidden variables?
>>54876761
I was thinking this.
>>54876790
> people hang on his every word.
That tends to happen when you influence the world.
>>54877019
Aren't you forgetting musk actually studied science while jobs was a drop out?
>>54877453
It's always one gucking monkey to throw a black dick in his mouth when the thread has nothing to do with blacks. Jesus you're a meme. Kill your self.
>>54877453
"Niggers" aren't the ones shooting up day cares and churches. Maybe your type should be deleted from the program.
>>54877774
> 99% fucktards. 1 man appears
> nobody gives a fuck
I am so ashamed and have to excuse my retarded brothers. Would you care to compile some sources for us?
From A to Z
Thanks anyway for your contribution anon
>>54876790
Comparing Musk to Jobs is retarded. I agree people treat musk like he is tony stark and a god but he really is smart as fuck and knows his shit. He is not just a "suit".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsixsRI-Sz4
He is way more involved in his companies r&d compared to steve jobs who was just a designer/marketer.
>>54881033
Musk IS another suit. He pretty much made google into an ad company. A shitty one at that.
>>54881110
google? What the fuck are you talking about lmao.
>>54875727
Well, it's nice to find another person that can generate such strong Reality Distortion Field
>life is suffering
>there is a truth to this suffering
>at the end of suffering truth will reveal itself
>the truth is the path that frees us
life is a meme anon
>>54878330
>he believes in morality
>>54881235
Underrated comment.
>>54875727
>Are we living in a virtual reality?
I don't know, maybe
There is no way to really prove it yet, so I will give it a 50/50 probability
>>54880442
>master of science
Die. Please, anyone this gullible and misinformed can NEVER contribute to modern society.
Oh, so all the nerds support creationism when it is spouted by their glorious leader Elon Musk?
what's the tl;dr? real or nah?
>>54875727
Dude needs to stop coming up with conspiracy theories and start running his fucking companies
>>54881411
Anyone so envious as to not give credit to a proven mans ideas should have been swallowed by their mother.
He might be right. This could be a clue.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/02/225241/universe-is-expanding-faster-than-we-thought
>>54877192
That's not really accurate. Judeo-Christian religion's text talk about pre-destination. That knocks free will out.
>>54882504
So no sin and cure for sin becuase people are blameless?
>>54875727
Yeah because this shit's too retarded to be real.
>>54882542
This isn't really a religious discussion but somebody on here the other day had a good analogy: If you buy a DVD you don't know what's on it before you watch it. The creator of the DVD does though. So it seems new to you, even though it was previously created. I liked that analogy.
>>54879859
>authority
On ROI sure. On the physics of quantum computing? LOL.
>>54875727
In other news, scientists wonder how many angels can dance on a pin-point.
Did Adam have a navel?
What did God do before He built the universe?
Enquiring minds want to avoid thinking about really hard stuff.
>>54876555
Keked and checked
>>54878256
they have actually found some low level particles that represent sort of binary behaviour
http://www.novaspivack.com/uncategorized/is-the-universe-a-computer-new-evidence-emerges
http://theawakenment.com/theoretical-physicist-james-gates-finds-computer-code-in-string-theory-equation/#sthash.tFGbo7Z2.dpbs
>>54875727
>get dead
>awake in meta reality
>your earth life is played back to you
>realise how much degenerate you were
>everybody makes fun of you
>that feels
>meta reality is no better than earth
>>54875727
>people think a man who glues some laptop batteries to run a car is a mega genius!
>>54879920
HURR DURR U R FUKING RETARDED I AM RIGHT U R WRONG HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>>54884643
This is my single greatest fear.
>/g/'s Elon Musk envy
>>54884859
I envy his money, Musk himself is a fag.
>>54878849
u are one of them
>>54877019
Elon musk has taken the technical lead on major projects at all his companies. Have you ever seen an in-depth interview with him? he would have to be the world's most deviously skilled script memorizer to be faking the breadth and depth of engineering knowledge he shows.
>>54875727
>elon musk is seriously considering stuff I made up when I was in middle school
ayy lmao
>>54885095
Who is this semen demon?
We've come full circle.
Tech entrepreneurs are the new creationists.
>>54885385
Can you stop samefagging holy shit, I checked this thread hours ago and you are still here.
>>54885399
I just got here. Take off the tinfoil.
>>54876339
mfw npc
This supports existence of God.
>>54876919
Shudup grommit
Any argument that applies to this universe being a simulation also applies to whoever is simulating this universe.
And so it's invalid, argument ad absurdum.
>>54885554
If an argument does not give a reason why it's this universe in particular that's simulated, rather than the host universe then it cannot be a valid argument. Any successful simulation argument has to give a reason why the chain of simulations stops at this universe, and this has not been done.
>>54885554
there must be a single universe that started all simulations
the real question is why would it matter or make a single difference.
Even if the reality you know is entirely false it remains your reality and the one you have to actually deal with.
>>54885095
Nice design, Mouse.
>>54875727
yes
>>54885573
>>54885554
You know for being the "tech" board and you guys are extremely dumb. The argument is perfectly solid and doesn't even say that we are living in a simulation. In fact I would say it gives it a 1/3 chance.
The argument just proposes that if we assume a posthuman civilization (could be 1000 years from now or 1 million) a technologically mature "posthuman" civilization would have enormous computing power; if even a tiny percentage of them were to run "ancestor simulations".
1. "The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage (that is, one capable of running high-fidelity ancestor simulations) is very close to zero", or
2. "The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running ancestor-simulations is very close to zero", or
3. "The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one"
The argument is not "lel we are living in a videogame guys". So if let's say in 10 thousand years we decide to run a simulation on our ancestors then that's the day we would be 99.9999% certain we are living in a simulation (unless we are the original universe which is highly unlikely). How many posts are we into this thread and no one seemed to grasp this or do a quick google search. You guys disgust me.
>>54885692
only 90s kids will know
>>54886190
>The argument is perfectly solid
lmao
>>54886190
Kek
And why is the host not also in a simulation?
God I hate elon musk so much. Why can't this pretentious egoists stop positioning themselves like gods? It's laughable, even musk had a hair transplant because he's that vapid
>>54886249
You are baiting or retarded. I don't believe we are living in a simulation or care, the argument is still correct if you actually read it instead of baiting with your "le ad absurdum xd".
>>54886270
>the argument is still correct
no it's not, it's russell teapot tier stupid
>>54886270
If you cannot differentiate between the host universe and the simulated universe then the argument cannot be valid.
>>54886266
Jews are tsundere for God because they get reviled and genocided for their entire history. It's really funny.
>>54886283
Stating:
>We are probably living in a simulation.
Is not the same as:
>1 out of 3 statements is true (1 being we are living in a simulation) Assuming that this likely thing happens (may not so the whole argument dies there, for example human civilization dies out before achieving the level of technology).
>>54886334
laughable, man. you must be a bug in the ancestor simulation
I'm out of this thread I don't know why I even bother.
>>54875727
His idea is premised on ai being able to simulate consciousness and higher intelligence on a planetary scale. I am skeptical of the software and hardware behind simulating our planet and the organisms in it.
I mean physically, what technology could plausibly provide that much computing power?
>>54877247
Aren't you like 100 years too early to be doing this? Processors need to git gud before we can simulate something meaningful IMO.
>>54886393
The simulation wouldn't have to be in real time
>>54878196
The Hindus were right!
>>54886441
poo in the loo pajeet
>>54886417
Why not? wouldn't it have to go at the same speed we experience?
IS there a more punchable face than Elon Musk?
>>54886492
Would you like to make a donation?
>>54886492
paul dano
>>54875727
>Simulated Reality
>mfw normies think this is Elon Musk's original idea.
>>54876047
Elon Musk is CTO of Spacex.
>>54886266
Hi irem
>>54886454
No as we are simulated also, we are synced
Am I the only one who's never heard of Elon Musk?
>>54882751
Its not a religious discussion, but the Christians still believe in Free Will and yet at the same time God's knowledge of everything. Its called cognitive dissonance, not supported by logic.
If you use your example on a Christian and then extrapolate and say they don't have a Free Will. That they don't have choice in the matter in what they do, as god already knows whats on the DVD. Then extrapolate that since they can't choose, they should not be bound by sin.
They will immediately fight back the logic. Your explanation is pretty on the front, but its not by any means logical.
>>54875727
Umm.... i dunno, maybe?
If we are then it is a very very sophisticated virtual universe. By our standards as we know them to be.
It may very well be true that we are all (or some of us are) jacked in to "the matrix" while others of us are in fact original beings of this virtual reality simulation.
Either way, we may never know. Or we may only find out when we die or "die".
Death may either be the end of our existence or the transition into a new form of existence (new to the person experiencing it anyway). Or it may be the mechanism by which we are freed from this "mattix universe" and back into the real one.
It may be that this universe is a prison and when we die our scrntence is up.
Those super duper pretty white christian kids that die and get huge news coverage about their "oh so tragic because gawd luvd them sooooo totaly much" may turn out to be them getting an early parole due to good behavior.
Honestly everything i have said is pure conjecture and speculation.
I have no idea if this universe is "real" or real.
>>54887768
>actually believing in sophisticated universe
time is quantised
particles align to grid
earth is flat plane as Bible tells us
sky is a half-sphere
space agencies are lying
all galaxies that you see in your toy telescope are literally a hologram on a flat sky
prove me wrong
pro tip:
you can't
>>54887819
Yes. I may not be able to walk up to you and immediatly provide an experience that proves you wrong, with a device or other "thingy" i can pull out of my pocket or backpack.
However.
Can you do the same for me thus proving yourself right?
No.
Neither of us can immediatly prove the other wrong.
To do so would require a starship.
>>54887878
I've read evolutionist doctrines. No experiment is offered whatsoever. It is all speculation, theories, fantasies. This is nowhere near science.
>Can you do the same for me thus proving yourself right?
People prove Earth being flat by an experiment, observation. Only valid scientific methods. Research this:
https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence
protip: this proves Bible is right
P.S. Kent Hovind's work is also remarkable, although he literally believes ball Earth.
P.P.S. Bible actually tells us how this sumulation world was created by God, and what this is for.
Look at this fucker.
>>54886265
They probably are.
>>54885554
you can't simulate something in this universe, thus the first plane of existence than created this universe doesn't have the same properties.
>>54885554
If I punch you and someone punches me, and another punches that guy and ad infinitum. Does that mean I can shit on you and you'd be okay with it?
Or would your answer be "reductio ad absurdium"
kek
>>54887709
I would probably refer them to Roman's ch.9 ver. 20. If you think about it like an author writing a book, the antagonist doesn't have a choice of being good, and they are bound by their actions. From our perspective it would seem wrong for people to be created to be bad, but that is from a person's perspective and understanding of the universe around them.
>>54887709
>not supported by logic
you mindboggling incompatibilist
>>54875727
As I choose to see it, this cannot be a simulation because of irrational numbers.
Computers can't handle irrational numbers like pi. Trying to calculate it would eat resources until shit crashed because it has no end.
Obviously they could use approximations out further than we have calculated, but if we ever catch up to the simulator's level of competence then we'd break it. They could impose hard limits on what we're capable of, but then it would truly be unprovable.
Also I realize that mathematics is just our way of measuring what's going on, numbers in themselves have no tangible correlation to what we apply them to. I was told that because of this, pi is irrelevant to a simulation, it only matters whatever finite number we calculate to.
If anyone is capable of expanding on, poking holes in, or correcting this I'd appreciate it.
>>54887951
Yer little bible book tell you all that?
I used to be like you.
I used to be a hardcore christian with my head buried in the dirt trying my hardest to ignore the scientific proof.
Try try try oh how i did.
And then one day i tealized that it might be a lie. Because any time i vegan to question the truth of the bible. I would immediatly get punnished by my parents and other family members and church members for questioning, for thinking for myself at all.
So when i finally had an internet capable computer in my room. (I grew up in the 80's before internet was even a thing. Sue me)
I started looking around, gathering data, learning.
And then i started looking in to all the different flavors of religeon. Found al hell of a lot of conflicting data.
And then decided it was all wrong.
If God truly has a message for us. Then why are there so many different messages? Which one do we pay attention to?
Its almost as tho God either has multiple personality disorder, or there are multiple gods.
Or there are multiple researchers conducting an experiment and observing the outcomes.
Or there are multiple players in a massive strategy game, and we are their pawns.
Simulated universe or not. There is something bigger going on. And its not the gov watching you fap thru your webcam to porn that you hide in the bible.
>>54889329
>Found al hell of a lot of conflicting data.
I can't see any conflicting data. Every observable and geological data points towards the big flood and young earth.
>all the different flavors of religeon.
All this different 'religions' are obviously made up.
Initially there was le Eden and people talked to God = original religion.
Then, death emerged. Some people forgot original religion and God destroyed them.
There was a flood. People spread around and some forgot original religion AGAIN.
Hinduism = obviously made up
Egypt = obviously made up
Greece = made up fairy tale
Buddism = just a philosophy
Jews = sort of rembered original religion < Jesus came here
Then Jesus trolled jews and started Christianity meme to remind people of original religion
Muhammed poo-in-the-loo tried to steal the idea, but it failed
I can't see any contridiction here. Bible is right.
>>54888933
>Trying to calculate it would eat resources until shit crashed because it has no end.
what if that's scripted into the simulation?:)
>>54888933
>As I choose to see it, this cannot be a simulation because of irrational numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJQgYBQFtSE
>>54889534
>every religion is a made up fairy tale except for mine!
>>54875838
>>54889550
>here we made 10 false religions
>your religion is false because other 10 are false
you cannot impose guilt on me
>>54875727
so musk believes that there is a tech god out there? just like the ancients on stargate..
>>54889581
Do you interpret the bible literally?
>>54888933
you don't really understand how computers work, do you?
why do you think that a computer would need to calculate irrational numbers?
the interesting thing about simulations is that they don't need to run in real time. if the reference clock shifts, nobody inside the simulation notices.
there's also the problem of fallible memory and fallible consciousness. if you've ever taken a powerful hallucinogenic drug or even had a bad fever then you'd know that you can't trust your own mind and body to correctly perceive the world correctly, or to remember it the right way afterward. on top of that you have to account for a simulation maintenance process that's capable of altering any thoughts or events that could prove that you're living in a simulation.
it's not possible to prove that one is not part of a simulation, only to prove that one is part of a simulation. that's the nature of the problem.
it doesn't really make much difference anyway.
>>54889534
fyi mohammed was a jew with red hair
